18/8 Eighteen Eight Fine Men’s Salons Franchise Warning

18/8 Eighteen Eight Fine Men’s Salons overstates the success of its franchises and understates its franchise failures, according to a franchise owner who provided this anonymous complaint.  We invite others to validate or dispute this claim – and share their opinions of the Eighteen Eight Fine Men’s Salon franchise, the Griff’s Shave Bar franchise, and franchisor Ultimate Franchises Inc.

(UnhappyFranchisee.ComWould you like to see further investigation and reporting on 18|8 Fine Men’s Salon franchise?  Contribute here:

18|8 Fine Men’s Salon Franchise Investigation (GoFundMe page)

Eighteen Eight Fine Men’s Salons – How Many Open / Closed / Rebranded? is an anonymously submitted guest post penned by a current or former 18/8 franchise owner.

Scott Griffiths 18/8 SalonsWe have not verified the claims made herein, and invite readers and the company to validate or dispute this and other complaints regarding the 18/8 Fine Men’s Salon franchise or the sister concept Griff’s Shave Bar.

The writer believes all information and numbers to be accurate, but invites readers to verify independently and draw their own conclusions.

Here’s the Guest Post:

Eighteen Eight Fine Men’s Salons – How Many Open / Closed / Rebranded?

Submitted by An 18/8 Franchise Owner.

In a recent Forbes interview (dated 6/13/18), franchise CEO (Chief Exaggerating Officer), Scott Griffiths severely overstates franchise success, open location count, and units in development of the 18/8 Fine Men’s Salon franchise chain.

Scott Griffiths is also the principal of Ultimate Franchises Inc. and the sub-brand Griff’s Shave Bar.

The premise of the article is how the financial crisis helped 18|8 Fine Men’s Salons grow faster through franchising than it would have organically.

While franchising has helped the 18|8 brand grow in store count in recent years, the rapid closing of locations throughout the country has led to many franchisees losing their life savings.

Griffiths states in the article, “Since franchising, 18|8 Fine Men’s Salons has grown to nearly 100 locations, with more than 150 in development.”

Eighteen Eight’s own website only lists 61 operating locations. Where are the other 39?

In a recent internal call with franchisees, Griffiths claims 75 open locations.

Did he mean “nearly” 75?

Where is the truth?

24 18/8 Fine Men’s Salons Have Closed

Eighteen Eight FranchiseBy our count, 24 stores have closed, including Irvine Westpark, which was once the highest grossing location in the country.

1. Irvine, CA (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salon-irvine-2)

2. Westlake Village, CA (https://www.yelp.com/biz/eighteen-eight-fine-mens-salon-westlake-village)

3. San Rafael, CA (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salon-san-rafael)

4. Walnut Creek, CA (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-walnut-creek-walnut-creek-2)

5. Culver City, CA (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-culver-city-culver-city-5)

6. La Jolla, CA (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-la-jolla-la-jolla-2)

7. Little Italy (San Diego), CA (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-broadstone-little-italy-san-diego)

8. Washington, DC (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-washington)

9. Coral Gables, FL (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salon-coral-gables)

10. Bethesda, MD (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-bethesda-bethesda)

11. Maple Lawn, MD (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-maple-lawn-fulton-2)

12. North Baltimore, MD (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-greenspring-baltimore-2)

13. St. Louis Park, MN (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-st-louis-park-st-louis-park-2)

14. Bedminster, NJ (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-bedminster)

15. Westwood, NJ (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-westwood)

16. Florham Park, NJ (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-florham-park-florham-park)

17. Edgewater, NJ (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-city-place-edgewater-edgewater)

18. Livingston, NJ (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-livingston-livingston)

19. Woodbury, NJ (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-woodbury-woodbury)

20. Beachwood, OH (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-beachwood-beachwood-2)

21. Avon Commons, OH (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-avon-commons-avon)

22. Lake Oswego, OR (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-lake-oswego-lake-oswego-4)

23. McKinney, TX (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-mckinney-mckinney)

24. Fort Worth, TX (https://www.yelp.com/biz/18-8-fine-mens-salons-fort-worth-fort-worth)

19 Eighteen Eight Salon Locations Have Rebranded

Griff's Shave BarIt appears that 19 Eighteen Eight Fine Men’s Salon locations have rebranded:

1. Ocotillo, AZ

2. Waterfront, AZ

3. Newport Beach, CA

4. West Hollywood, CA

5. Dublin, CA

6. Brea, CA

7. Huntington Beach, CA

8. Campbell, CA

9. Roseville, CA

10. Mountain View, CA

11. Laguna Niguel, CA

12. Closter, NJ

13. Jersey City, NJ

14. Mamaroneck, NJ

15. Cool Springs, TN

16. Plano, TX

17. Flower Mound, TX

18. Richardson, TX

19. Bothell, WA

6 Other 18/8 Franchise Locations Have Been Taken Over by Corporate

6 other former franchise locations have had operations taken over by 18|8 corporate;

1. Anaheim Hills, CA

2. Lake Forest, CA

3. Centennial, CO

4. Annapolis, MD

5. Princeton, NJ

6. Powell, OH

The franchise page of the eighteeneight.com franchise website states:  “Total Investment Range is $291,851 – $513,639 for a single 18|8 Fine Men’s Salon.”

Considering all store closures, rebrands, and corporate takeovers, this equates to $14.3-$25.1 million in lost investor value. This total does not include resales that have netted the original owner negative value.

Scott Griffiths claims 150 units in development.   In the first 6 months of 2018 alone, over 2 dozen locations have either closed or rebranded, while only 2 new locations have opened.   In an amazing twist of irony; the recent Forbes article is titled “Growth Stories: How the Financial Crisis Caused This Business To Grow Ten Times Faster.”

Share your personal Growth Story with 18|8 Fine Men’s Salons in the comments.

[End of Guest Submitted Content]

See how many locations Ultimate Franchises, Inc. claims to have as of July, 2017.  See Item 20 for location and sales information, and the exhibits for a list of current and former franchise owners:

18/8 Fine Men’s Salons Franchise Disclosure Document 7/17



NOTE:  We invite all parties discussed to share corrections, clarifications, explanations, rebuttals, and alternative points of views.  Franchisors, franchisees, employees and others discussed here can leave comments below or submit rebuttals and clarifications via email to UnhappyFranchisee[at]Gmail.com. 

Opinions and representations expressed are those of the parties alone; do your own research and make up your own mind.  We are a discussion site and invite all opinions from all points of view which can be left as comments or submitted to UnhappyFranchisee[at]gmail.com for possible publication.  Anonymous commenting is fine.  Please consider supporting our effort with a contribution to Unhappy Franchisee.




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TAGS:  18/8 Fine Men’s Salons,  18/8 Fine Men’s Salons franchise, 18/8 Salon franchise opportunity, 18/8 Fine Men’s Salons franchise complaints, Eighteen Eight Salon franchise, Eighteen Eight Salon franchise, Griff’s Shave Bar franchise, Ultimate Franchises Inc., franchise complaints, Scott Griffiths,  W. Scott Griffiths, Ron Love, Loretta Hwong Griffiths, , Brigitte Love Thewes, Mark Elson, unhappy franchisee

304 thoughts on “18/8 Eighteen Eight Fine Men’s Salons Franchise Warning

  • July 17, 2019 at 9:39 pm

    So is Ultimate Brands already on a path to Chapter 7?


    Chapter 7: Liquidation
    Companies in dire straits may reach the conclusion that continuing to operate is no longer a viable option. A Chapter 7 bankruptcy proceeding can provide a company in that position with an organized liquidation. After a Chapter 7 bankruptcy petition is filed, an automatic stay (see below) is
    immediately instituted, and a trustee is assigned to administer the liquidation of the debtor’s assets.


    If so, what was the deal with all those statements made on the Townhall meeting re how this temporary Chapter 11 for all franchisees? Things were going to be great coming out of this for everyone. The marketing was going to be great, etc.

  • July 18, 2019 at 1:40 pm

    How can all interested current and former franchisees coordinate efforts to push for criminal charges against Scott, Ron, Bridgette and Loretta? Clearly, multiple crimes were committed under the California Franchise Investment Law, FTC Regulations, Mail Fraud statutes , state statutes, SBA regulations, etc. Unfortunately, federal and state agencies are not that gung-ho to investigate and pursue criminal proceedings, leaving little recourse to defrauded franchisees left to deal with the financial fallout. That said, the co-conspiring foursome’s sheer volume of wretched behavior should be sufficient to attract the attention of some investigatory agency, some legislator such as Katie Porter of California, etc. if enough of us coordinate efforts to request a formal investigation. Please share any ideas you may have.

  • August 11, 2019 at 12:22 pm

    I heard a rumour that Scott was removed as chairman. Also something about the majority of remaining owners lawyering up. Can anyone confirm this or provide details as to what’s been happening the last several weeks?

  • August 12, 2019 at 1:18 pm

    All hail to the new Chairman, aka Mr. Integrity, Andrew Hulse.

    Cue “In the Navy” by the Village People…

  • August 12, 2019 at 2:03 pm

    I don’t know about Scott being removed, but I do know that Chris Brown created a legal group that is pushing for Chapter 7. CB just being CB, playing both sides – collecting from Scott’s payroll, while at the same time trying usurp power from Scott. Someone else on here said it before, whenever Chris spoke to franchisees, he did not hide his feelings about Scott’s incompetence. The only one who didn’t know was Scott. Amazing back-stab Chris. Bring it down from the inside. Bravo!

    For anyone that’s part of Chris Brown’s legal group, you’re not safe either. He’ll find a way to keep making money off of you as long as you stick with him.

  • August 12, 2019 at 10:58 pm

    Being removed as “Chairman” is not enough. Jail for the self absorbed, entitled, pompous, Class A thief W. Scott Griffiths is what is deserved for this filthy parasite and his cronies.

  • August 21, 2019 at 3:50 am

    Anyone holding 18/8 gift cards or has haircuts remaining on their memberships should redeem them right away. Corporate stores will be closing soon and non corporate stores will be rebranding.

  • August 23, 2019 at 2:24 pm

    Shout out to MJ for giving W. Scott Griffiths hell at every turn via the arbitration and the courts. W. Scott Griffiths’ labyrinth of rabbit holes are continuing to be exposed, often times due to MJ’s efforts.

    Many thanks, MJ!

  • August 24, 2019 at 11:37 am

    So what are other franchisees going to do if the company is forced to liquidate? I’m walking away from the franchise is JMS buys the brand. I had a lawyer review my franchise agreement and anyone taking ownership of my franchise contract has to get a release of liability on any claims I may have against the franchise. I have some claims, so no way I would ever sign that.

  • August 26, 2019 at 12:15 am

    MJ should be considered the hero by all closed, current debranded franchisees. We are all greatly indebted to him.

    MJ, thank you for taking on the bullying franchisor after misleading them (understatement of the century) to get in us into this mess (financial ruin) in the first place.

    Virtually every current franchisee greatly appreciates you.

  • August 27, 2019 at 9:01 pm

    So it’s done. Unreal Brands is forced into Chapter 7 and all assets are to be liquidated. I agree as stated, MJ deserves high praise for stepping up and taking down Scott and Company.

    Today I spoke with the property manager of the salon I owned before turning it over, eventually to Scott this past Spring. She was unaware of the proceedings after having done a Google search on Ultimate Brands – Bankruptcy and finding nothing. Thankfully she allowed my personal guaranty to go to Unreal Brands so no risk anymore on this end.

    She’s changing the locks tonight.

  • August 28, 2019 at 7:10 pm

    Pasadena, California’s store closed a couple of days ago UNANNOUNCED catching all stylists and clients completely off guard!!

  • August 29, 2019 at 1:36 am

    Failure 2.0

    How a Failed Company Fueled the Success of My Next Business Venture
    By Scott Griffiths, CEO of 18|8 Fine Men’s Salons December 14, 2017 08:00 pm EST
    0 0 0 0 0 MORE
    Scott Griffiths of 18|8 Fine Men’s Salons
    Credit: 18|8 Fine Men’s Salons
    After committing more than two decades of my life to growing several companies, including Crystal Cruises, Paul Mitchell’s men’s brand – Mitch for Men, House of Blues and Nokia – I developed a wealth of strategic and practical skills for creating and building brands and companies. Yet, the circumstance I attribute my largest success to also happens to be my biggest failure – my microbrewery, Rhino Chasers.

    The Rhino Chasers emerged as a successful brewpub at the Los Angeles Airport and soon blossomed into one of the top 15 brands in the nation – with major influence within the craft beer industry. Rhino Chasers’ popularity skyrocketed at an incredible pace. We grew so fast that every dollar was put toward purchasing inventory and sales support.

    To keep up with demand, I had to tap into my friends and family for financial support and quickly burn through their money to fund my company. Knowing this was not a path towards success, I decided to tap a venture capital firm for an equity cash infusion. The caveat to this agreement was that I give up my position and let the venture capitalists hire a new CEO with an MBA to run day to day operations. The company then went into bankruptcy, resulting in the sale of the assets. Even though I wasn’t in charge, I still felt responsible for those who had invested in me and my visions.

    What could I have done differently? Earned an MBA.

    If I had had an MBA at the time, the venture capitalists may have trusted me with ongoing control and leadership. A year later, I applied to UCLA to attain my own MBA with the conviction that I would never be compromised again, forced to sacrifice my leadership. The UCLA Anderson education and experience was an eye opener and a game changer for me. It gave me a new perspective with the necessary skills to pursue new business opportunities, one of which was my most recent brand, 18|8 Fine Men’s Salons.

    The concept was sparked by the fact that many men spend $40 to $60 every four to five weeks to go to a women’s salon, not wanting to be there (and the women not wanting us there, as well).

    In 2012, I began franchising 18|8 and have since grown my company to nearly 100 locations with 150 more in development. I attribute the success of my brand to a few lessons I learned along the way.

    Nurture the right brain, feed the left

    Today’s entrepreneurs cannot be just transactional. Although I’m currently functioning in the business world as the founder and CEO of 18|8 Fine Men’s Salons, I was trained first as a scholarship artist and designer at the Art Center College of Design, where I was able to translate what I saw in my mind to a blank canvas. I had to imagine how something was going to unfold. Earning my MBA from the UCLA Anderson School taught me how to analyze from a business perspective and articulate business opportunities with the vision driving the opportunities.

    Even smart people can’t do everything

    Lack of objectivity or perspective is a leading cause of failure. I learned early on that even though I could imagine and visualize the future for my brands, I needed to rely on a team to help delegate responsibilities and strategize. When you’re too involved in every aspect of your business, your company ends up suffering. However, having a clear vision understood across the board is key to collaboration inside a team.

    Empathy leads to longevity

    I believe the key to entrepreneurship is understanding how your vision is going to unfold. Conversely, success is not solely recognized by money, but rather by the team. Empathy is dying; and no matter how you label yourself in an industry, compassion is a key business strategy.

    This tactic can be seen through the inception of 18|8 Fine Men’s salons, in which we have created a sanctuary for men by catering to and understanding their grooming needs. Men should not have to go to women’s salons for a better haircut; they should not have to be in a fishbowl environment, hearing conversations they can’t relate to; they should not have to have Cosmopolitan as their only reading material.

    18|8 was created as the fine men’s salon concept and that empathizes with the needs of man – by helping clientele make significant changes which will overall help boost their morale and regain confidence.

    About the author: Scott Griffiths is the CEO and co-founder of 18|8 Fine Men’s Salons, a national network of nearly 100 full-service prestige men’s salons. The brand offers a wide range of premium grooming services, including handcrafted haircuts, straight-razor shaves, facial and scalp treatments, waxing and nail treatments and a proprietary suite of water-based hair and shave products.

  • August 29, 2019 at 8:10 am

    So, who is going to write the book, do the documentary on the rise and fall of 18|8, a lesson in what not do in franchising?


    Definitely should also be a chapter in an MBA case study book. Also, get a shout out covering “Scamming 101”.

  • August 29, 2019 at 3:29 pm

    So when to I get to bid on Scott’s house?

  • August 30, 2019 at 12:05 am

    I realize SG isn’t wearing orange yet, which seems most appropriate, but I wonder if on the occasion of his second business bankruptcy the song link below captures the feeling of those he has caused so much pain and financial suffering:


    The last bankruptcy wasn’t SG’s first rodeo as noted on a prior post. I wonder if he will have a third wave of getting people’s money.

  • August 30, 2019 at 2:41 am

    I think Chris Brown egged Scott on to go after debranders with lawsuits, knowing that he would have no chance, and the company would eventually fold under the weight of legal fees. This is exactly what happened, and it took almost no time at all. I credit Chris Brown with bankrupting Ultimate Franchises as much as anyone else. Chris basically told Scott to jump off a cliff to chase these guys, and he did.

  • August 30, 2019 at 10:41 am

    “I think Chris Brown egged Scott on to go after debranders with lawsuits, knowing that he would have no chance, and the company would eventually fold under the weight of legal fees. This is exactly what happened, and it took almost no time at all. I credit Chris Brown with bankrupting Ultimate Franchises as much as anyone else.”

    No, this is not what happened. A quick review of pending lawsuits and the list of bankruptcy creditors will reveal as much.

    “Chris basically told Scott to jump off a cliff to chase these guys, and he did.”

    Perhaps, but there are stormy days ahead for Chris Brown.

  • August 31, 2019 at 5:03 pm

    I was over 18/8 in Sugarland and Memorial City, TX. Was told we filed for Chapter 11 but it would be “business as usual” and they were absolutely not closing our doors. A week later, we all show up to work to the bank taking everything out of our salons and being told we were basically all being let go. Thanks 18/8! :)

  • August 31, 2019 at 7:36 pm

    What happens to gift card balances. No one is answering at the store anymore and emails are bouncing back.

  • August 31, 2019 at 10:48 pm

    Can we stop giving Chris any credit for anything?! He’s a total idiot. Really low intelligence and he did not have any influence for any of this with Scott or Unreal Brands! I heard from a reliable source Chris has some serious health issues so he will soon find his day in hell. Good riddance!

    We should be thanking MJ for sure! MJ and a current franchisee that owns a few locations. I heard this franchisee was thinking of going to Refine but MJ told him to hold off and wait because he had just won the arbitration case with Scott which forced Scott into bankruptcy and now they can both take over the company and buy the contracts. If this happens, nothing more over our heads for unpaid royalties for those that closed. Thank you MJ and your group!

  • September 3, 2019 at 11:03 am


    You can contact:
    18|8 Fine Men’s Salons – Maple Grove, MN
    (763) 400-9124

    That is the defacto headquarters, since all the Scott Griffiths owned locations have closed. This location is owned by Andrew Hulse, who is third in command after Scott and Loretta Griffiths. Scott mentioned during the bankruptcy examination that the plan was for Andrew to take over the franchise after his imprisonment.

    Here is Andrew’s Linkedin profile that now lists him as Owner and President of 18/8

  • September 4, 2019 at 8:55 am

    Former Franchisee,
    You said “after his imprisonment”….. He’s getting tossed in prison? Do you have any more info on how that happened and what steps were taken? Asking for a friend……


  • September 4, 2019 at 1:15 pm

    Featured franchises by the international franchise profesional group ifpg

  • September 4, 2019 at 6:27 pm

    How dare these people take our hard earned money that was supposed to supplement our incomes OR be a sole source of income to many. These filthy, disgusting thieves took college money from our kids, retirement money, took homes, they are responsible for bankruptcy, marital break ups due to financial woe, mental and physical anguish due to their theft and false bullsh*t. These criminals need to be put in jail. It upsets me that they breath the same air I do. MJ must be credited and I feel that he will continue to be relentless in his plight to take down these pigs. We stand behind you MJ and we are here to continue the fight to right the wrong.

  • September 5, 2019 at 12:42 pm


    The above is a link to an interview with Scott Griffiths, “phenomenal entrepreneur” – 1:05 mark, on April 30, 2019, way after so many store closures. At the 27:52 mark, the comment is made re being a profitable company. If he is profitable, was it because of the last few years several bills for contractors, landlords, vendors and lawyers were not or was this just untrue. (Vendor, construction consultants not being paid surfaced a few years ago.) Maybe profitability relates to one of the other legal entities that Scott was moving money to and fro. Maybe Scott, citing his MBA so many times, hasn’t quite learned what being profitable is. Or, maybe he really is profitable in spite of his mortgage situation.

    Was Scott still trying to sell franchises at April 30, 2019 in the face of so many states he had not filed FDDs, store closures and store give-backs to corp? Many of the store give-backs were terminated under Scott’s management via landlord eviction notices.

    Whatever the case is, the statements are hard to understand as they were posted just a few months before the Chapter 11 filing.

    Very entertaining.

  • September 6, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    Seems like W. Scott Griffiths is still trying to work through John Micheal Stern to control the franchise, even after Scott has been deemed mentally unfit to lead. Does anyone have any additional details on this?

  • September 6, 2019 at 4:58 pm

    09/04/2019Hearing Held (RE: related document(s)[70] Motion for Relief from Stay – ACTION IN NON-BANKRUPTCY FORUM filed by Creditor Michael John Patterson, Creditor Wheatstrong Enterprises) – Ruling: Motion is granted. Movant to submit order.

    Thanks again, MJ. The countdown is on for W. Scott, Loretta, Ron and Brigitte to be forced in to filing for personal bankruptcy protection. Game over!

  • September 7, 2019 at 1:11 pm

    Are these guys in the IFPG “Membership” as well?

    And are some of their “contributors” participating in these placements? When are people going to wake up to this situation?

  • September 7, 2019 at 9:22 pm

    13-1. Claim #13 filed by Brigitte Thewes/Brigitte Love, Amount claimed: $10625.0

  • September 10, 2019 at 4:41 pm

    For those franchisees that signed the contract and paid the franchise fee but never reached build out, what might their options be?

  • September 12, 2019 at 12:56 pm

    Sue St Gregory? Lance Freeman? Mark Elson? Frannet? State of CA Department of Business Oversight for malpractice? No easy answer I would guess.

    (CA Department of Business Oversight should be renamed the Department of No Business Oversight.
    Or, renamed the CA Department of No Follow-Through after hearing so many complaints from deceived investors.)

    Maybe contact a law enforcement agency. As evident by so many zee results citing Discovery Day representations and FDDs commissions/ommissions, obviously representations were made that franchisees had no way of knowing were untrue. People have asked at what point does this cross over to being criminal.

  • September 12, 2019 at 2:54 pm

    “For those franchisees that signed the contract and paid the franchise fee but never reached build out, what might their options be?”

    Unfortunately, you are probably best off to just thank your lucky stars that you did not undertake the buildout and operations phases of the 18|8 Scam. You are unlikely to receive your franchise fee by filing a bankruptcy claim and, even if you are within applicable statute of limitations deadlines, the cost of civil litigation may exceed your franchisee fee lost.

    I do wish I had better and more satisfying advice to pass along. The good news is that W. Scott Griffiths appears to have suffered a well-deserved mental breakdown, Chris “the Weasel” Brown may be dying ahead of schedule and the family foursome will likely be ruined financially and in the messy stages of both personal bankruptcy and divorce proceedings by the December holidays. With any luck prison is also a realistic possibility.

  • September 12, 2019 at 10:51 pm

    Their options are to thank god you didn’t build out. And kiss that fee good bye. Scott is scum.

  • September 16, 2019 at 6:47 pm

    For those claiming to know Chris Brown is ill and Scott suffered a breakdown: Source, please. These are serious claims that shouldn’t be spread unless they are verified. What if someone started spreading claims about Ange being in an unnatural relationship with a llama? Wait – bad example. But you get what I’m saying. Further, I’m not sure how a sociopath who is incapable of feeling is capable of a breakdown involving feelings.

    Let’s be certain about these things before putting them out there. And I, for one, despite having my life savings siphoned away by these criminals, don’t wish death on anybody.

  • September 17, 2019 at 9:17 am

    K.T.- Point well taken with one difference: I could give a rat’s ass if W. Scott and/or Chris Brown were to get hit by a bus or flying projectile today.

  • September 17, 2019 at 11:34 pm

    I do think Chris can’t have it both ways. Chris probably contributed to a lot of people’s regrettable decision to invest in 18|8. Chris knew of the franchisee survey where virtually everyone regretted investing in 18|8, yet Chris changed the subject quickly and didn’t want to talk about it while facilitating Scott discount a survey taken by 75% of his franchisees.

    Andrew, the officer noted on Scott’s latest FDD who someone nicknamed “Mr Integrity”, also joined the group of 30 franchisees should be completely ashamed of himself. It’s a little “too little, too late” to join the anti-Scott bandwagon. Scott never had his franchisees’ interest at heart. Yet Andrew and Chris stuck right there with the famously talented liar till the end. Both Chris and Andrew are recorded in the recruiting video to try to get to join the S.S. Titanic.

    How anyone with one ounce of morals could stick by Scott speaks volumes about them as a person.

  • September 18, 2019 at 9:14 am

    IFPG lists them as franchisers why is that?

  • September 19, 2019 at 2:59 am

    Same as Laguna Niguel. We visited them in California on Discovery Day. Others we spoke to went there as well. They vouched for 188 and I think they were on the board. Then I heard they rebranded. Who can you trust ?

  • September 19, 2019 at 1:20 pm

    Clarence, do you really think IFPG is monitoring every franchisor bankruptcy and updating their website immediately? Why don’t you call them? Also, why do you even care?

  • September 20, 2019 at 3:31 pm

    the question is don’t you think they should chris? dont you think that every franchise broker group has a responsibility to vet those they allow into their membership franchiser groups? another question is why is it that you dont care? are you ifpg? how do you know who i call or dont call? rather than put your questions to me why not concern yourself with the poor souls who lose life savings due to misrepresented franchisers. make a difference instead of worrying about what I write.

  • September 20, 2019 at 4:37 pm

    Clarence – Sure they have that responsibility, but reporting on page 5 of a discussion specifically about 18/8 doesn’t really help. I think contacting the IFPG webmaster would be the way to go. The IFPG website is the last thing anyone currently involved in the bankruptcy outcome of Ultimate Brands cares about right now. And no I’m not with IFPG, but I am a current 18/8 Franchisee. We all have a lot more immediate concerns.

  • September 20, 2019 at 5:50 pm

    then one of your concerns should be a franchiser organization that promotes a brand you and many others have been hurt by. any site organization or group that promotes the franchise should be of concern to you and every other investor who has been burnt. had you and others like you been made aware of the comments here and elswhere you might have avoided being taken by them. u can be sure that the broker orgs are reading this and all of the comments about the brand. calling them out on it works for possible franchises. no one under estimates your immediate concerns but think also of those who might be considering investing.

  • September 20, 2019 at 6:52 pm

    Ok, too late for all of us but yes good to warn others not to invest in this already bankrupt brand. Thanks for the heads up Clarence.

  • September 21, 2019 at 10:55 am

    thank you Chris. my messaging is not meant to offend and if so I apologize. ive been a victim myself with another brand and dont appreciate broker organizations that continue to promote inferior brands and investments. good luck to you and all who were hurt by this scrupulous franchiser.

  • September 24, 2019 at 8:19 pm


    Please note that there were various points in time when people lost their rose-colored glasses. Every franchisee, at one point, thought things were great. (Why would they have become franchisees otherwise?) As it became more and more apparent that something was wrong, more started looking around for answers and ultimately figured out they were scammed.

    Even almost all board members, initially chosen because, in part, they were thought to be positive, a criteria Scott set, came to the same realization that something was rotten in Denmark.

    I think you do have to question the franchisees who stayed with Scott through the very end due to their economic conflict of interest. Obviously, that was self-serving as everyone knew the gig was up. Scott had already fired staff members who stood up to him on behalf of franchisees. You have to look at the timeline here. There are lots of franchisees (current, closed, de-branded, former board members and those who gave their stores back to Scott) who have great integrity in spite of what Scott said about them.

    Franchisees, as noted above, who stuck with Scott through till the end in some kind of recruiting role, knew of so many horror stories. They (Chris and Andrew) need to prove themselves to the people they continued to mislead by sticking with Scott for so long with knowledge of his ethical challenges.

  • September 25, 2019 at 9:29 pm

    I am a victim of griffiths. I bought multiple haircuts ahead of time and my lake forest, ca location closed. No warning. Never buying like this again. Lost all trust in businesses.

  • September 26, 2019 at 11:07 am

    We all wish we left the franchise as early on as the one Lies mentioned. Should have followed their lead and we wouldn’t be in the horrible bankruptcy mess we are all in now.

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