JANI-KING Franchise Complaints
February 3, 2010
Entrepreneur magazine lavishes high praise on the Jani-King franchise opportunity via its 2010 franchise rankings. Entrepreneur ranked the 10,000+ unit Jani-King #8 overall in the 2010 Franchise 500, the #2 low-cost franchise, the #1 home-based franchise and #7 in the “America’s Best Global Franchise” category.
Of course, Entrepreneur states that when compiling their rankings they do not “measure subjective elements such as franchisee satisfaction…” since “…these are judgments only you can make.”
In a time when many individuals are struggling to make ends meet, the Jani-King franchise opportunity – with its low start-up cost and guaranteed cleaning contracts – seems especially enticing. But do a bit of digging and you’ll find some troubling – and remarkably consistent – complaints from Jani-King franchise owners.
Lawsuits allege a cleaning-contract shell game.
In an August, 2009 Franchise Times article on lawsuits leveled against commercial cleaning franchise companies, Julie Bennett writes:
…the lawsuits, filed recently in Massachusetts against all three companies and in Pennsylvania, Minnesota and California against Jani-King, contend that the cleaning companies misrepresent their offerings, because they do not have sufficient customers to guarantee each franchisee the amount of monthly cleaning business they purchase. Instead, the lawsuits allege, they breach their contracts by underbidding the amount of time and staffing required for each job, refusing to allow franchisees to inspect cleaning jobs or bid sheets before accepting or rejecting a job, offering geographically inconvenient jobs and unjustly taking jobs from one franchisee to re-sell them to others.
Consumer complaint sites are abundant with specific complaints about the Jani-King franchise, the franchisor and the regional master franchisees who recruit unit-level owners.
On the Complaints Board, 2009-08-22 letshelp wrote
franchise is a scam
I purchased a Jani-King Commercial Cleaning Franchise after reading they were a great franchise opportunity in several franchise magazines. During my initial meeting with the regional director I expressed concern over the 40% they take off the top of what clients are billed. He told me not to worry as they take all their fees into consideration when giving a cleaning quote to a client.
When they started offerring me contracts I would do the math and tell them there was very little profit in some contracts and absolutely none in others. I was told this was a low profit margin industry and I had to learn to work some "break even" contracts for I would get additional business from those same clients ( floor waxing ).
I accepted some of these contracts since they are only required to offer you the amount of cleaning business you purchased (with the franchise cost ). If you don’t accept the accounts they are not required to offer you anymore.
Once I started working accounts, the operations director would go by the account every month to evaluate the franchisee’s performance. He would always find something negative to write about to justify taking the account away from the franchisee and reselling it to a new franchisee. So the franchisee ends up losing the original franchise fee and whatever fee he paid for the accounts he was working at hardly no profit.
I later learned this type of scam preys on people who have never been in business for themselves – so trust the Franchisor. If anyone is looking into purchasing this type of franchise, do yourself a favor and run a Google or Yahoo search on Jani-King. They have had numerous lawsuits and government complaints. I lost all my savings, but hopefully others can learn from my mistake.
85 days ago, Rickety Rabbit responded:
Almost the same thing happend to me in Boston. I bought a Jani King franchise in 2006. I paid $15, 000 for $4000 per month in business. Minus the 22% Jani- King takes off the top. With what is left I pay for labor, chemicals, and equipment.
Jani King has it so they do not have to provide you with the $4000 per month in business, they only need OFFER it to you. If you refuse it, that’s it. They don’t owe it to you any longer. You had your chance. But here is what they do. They underbid the account by hundreds of dollars. They make false promises to the business owner, and do not tell the franchise owner about it. When the business owner cancels because the promises are not met, the franchise owner is left to make a decision. Take care of the promises never mentioned to you ( such as delivering the newspaper ever morning, or a free strip and wax every month) both are actual cases, and both would have put me in the negative for profit.
So I was forced to give it up. No fault of mine. Also the account is not supposed to cancel before one year. If they do Jani King promises to file suit with a killer legal team. Which they must have because they are still in business. However they only use it to defend itself from angry franchise owners.
They purposely offer you accounts that are way underbid, or too far away. When you deny them, they no longer owe you the account. If I could do it all over again I would invest in real estate on Venus before having to deal with this again.
One last thing. I placed over 40 calls per month to the district manager for four months straight. Not one call answered not one call returned. I had to buy an existing franchise that was already working with history in order to pay the bills while waiting for my $4000 in business. Now I am about to lose those accounts to under bidders. Can you believe that? In this economy there are those worse then Jani King that UNDERBID them. Sorry. Very sorry.
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE JANI-KING FRANCHISE? WHAT DO YOU THINK? SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
[...] franchises also hyped in the Entrepreneur 500 list include: Jani-King, ServiceMaster Clean, OpenWorks, OctoClean, Office Pride Commercial Cleaning, City Wide [...]
It always amuses me to read what failed Jani-King franchisees have to say about why their business failed. Have we really come to a place in society where a business owner no longer takes responsibility for their own actions? I suppose it is much easier to blame Jani-King for your failure rather then look at yourself as a truly horrible business owner.
Just look at the complaints on this thread. These failed business owners are crying about the accounts that were offered to them by Jani-King. Must be nice to open a business and have the franchisee promise you actual business. If you don’t like the way the accounts are bid, or the profit margin then for crying out loud go sell your own accounts!! I assure you Jani-King would like nothing more from a franchisee then to get off their lazy butt and actually try selling an account on their own. Only then will you actually find out how tough the industry is right now. Jani-King provides you all of the marketing material and training that you will need to go out and sell your own accounts, but you know what % of franchisees go out and sell accounts? Less then 1%!!
Secondly, you are a business owner, and this is not some get rich quick scheme like you were hoping for! This actually takes hard work and very long hours. In fact the average failure rate for all small businesses nationwide is 80%, so if through the help of Jani-King that failure rate is cute to even 20% you still have a 1 in 5 shot of failing in your first 2 years of business. However, that is not what you wanted to hear. You wanted to hear that you could invest $20,000 and in two years retired with a million dollars in the bank and not lift a finger for it.
Here is reality check, 75% of small businesses do not make a single penny of profit in their first two years of operation. You might have known that had you put a business plan together. Oh thats right, you didn’t expect to have to work that hard.
Jani-King can only help a business owner so much. Jani-King can not help ignorance, incomptency, or flat out laziness. So instead of blaming Jani-King take a good long and hard look in the mirror and ask yourself who you really should be blaming. If you weren’t putting 60 hours a week into your franchise to help sell new accounts, and grow your existing ones that the answer should be very easy!
Reality check on Business Owner above. He is from JaniKing corporate. I have seen his same non sensical rant on other sites. JaniKing is a scam. Get your money and they dont care about you. If a reputable company sees that you are not a good fit for thier corporation they will give the money back for the good of all. Jani king just wants the money. Ask for it back and get the lawyer threat. Just another JaniKing liar.
@business owner
stop scamming and get a real job before that class lawsuit closes jani king down
(jani -king) what kind of b.s. name is that for a company
This is something I read on Trla
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Sarah Donaldson, Attorney
Office: 210-212-3704
SAN ANTONIO, Texas – February 22, 2010 – A San Antonio worker has sued Dallas-based Jani-King International, Inc. and local Jani-King employers Ramiro and Elizabeth Bernal for violating minimum wage and overtime laws and for unlawful retaliation.
Represented by Texas RioGrande Legal Aid (TRLA) and the Equal Justice Center (EJC), Gabriela Monsivaiz alleges that she was not paid minimum wage and overtime for the janitorial work she performed for Jani-King between 2007 and 2009. The lawsuit also alleges that Ms. Monsivaiz was terminated when she asked to be paid properly.
“The complaint alleges that our client was fired because she stood up for her rights to minimum and overtime wages,”said Sarah Donaldson, a TRLA attorney representing Monsivaiz.
The lawsuit alleges that Jani-King and its local operators violated the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) and the Texas Minimum Wage Act. According to these laws, employees must be paid at least $7.25 per hour of work. Under the FLSA, an employer must also pay overtime of 1.5 times an employee’s hourly rate for each hour worked beyond 40 in a given week. The FLSA prohibits an employer from retaliating against an employee for asserting her rights under the FLSA. The lawsuit was filed in federal court in San Antonio.
Monsivaiz’s case comes as part of a new San Antonio-based wage recovery project aimed at helping low-income workers recover when they are unpaid or underpaid for their work. TRLA and the EJC, two non-profit law firms with experience advocating for low-income workers, are collaborating on this project to address the growing problem of workers’ rights violations in San Antonio. Workers who are interested in learning more about their rights can contact the project at 210-308-6222.
According to Donaldson, the problem is wide-spread. “We have heard many complaints from janitorial workers who, like our client, say they were not paid correctly for their work cleaning the businesses, schools and restaurants we all use.”
Established in 1970, Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, Inc. (TRLA) is a nonprofit organization that provides free civil legal services to low-income and disadvantaged clients in a 68-county service area. TRLA’s mission is to promote the dignity, self-sufficiency, safety and stability of low-income Texas residents by providing high-quality civil legal assistance and related educational services. The Equal Justice Center (EJC) is an employment justice and civil rights organization which empowers low-income families, individuals and communities to achieve systemic reforms that improve their lives. For more information on these organizations visit http://www.equaljusticecenter.org or http://www.trla.org.
I owned a Jani King franchise and was on both ends of the practice of reselling accounts. Three accounts were turned over to me due to “complaints from the clients” regarding the other franchisee. I brought in addtional business myself, including a $5,000 a month account. Within 3 months I was hearing complaints from the area representative and he wanted to give the account to a new franchisee.
I have heard the same story from several sources, including one of my customers who had used JanI King in another state. The franchisee there had expressed the same frustration.
One of my friends owns a very successful Jani King franchise. I think he’s had it 4 or 5 years now. I know he works his tail off but he does very well. I have my own lawn service company (since 1999) and it is indeed a lot of work. Sometimes I wish I had a franchise company to back me up. Sounds like some of you complaining don’t know what real work it is to run a successful business these days. But I see that a lot on these complaint sites. No one wants to work hard anymore, they want everything handed to them.
Stop complaining and go generate some business for yourself.
My 2 pennies.
How do you sell your J-K franchise? We want out and they choose not to buy it out; so how do you value it and go about selling it?
To bill edwards
Your attack is a tipical one from janiking. Its funny how you say that you have a lawn business but you come in here and attack these people when you dont know them or the facts. You sound like another crony sent by janiking. Explain the hundreds of complaints on janiking in England? Explain all the lawsuits filled against janiking in this country.
Jani King, is Jani King all over the world. Here are the facts. gross sales, less payroll, less operating expenses, less quarterly taxes, less Jani King’s 30%, less everything they nickel and dime you for. What’s left over? 0. Yes that’s right ZERO. Don’t waste your money, you will lose your socks, your financial well being and everything you own.
Jani-King owns the contracts, so they do what they want to do with them, including selling them, over, and over, and over, and over and over and over, and over and over, and over, and over, and over…. again. As soon as your seller fees are paid off, they yank the account and sell to another franchise owner.
You would do better burning your money before you give it to Jani King.
Entrepreneur Magazine should be careful about what they publish. Forget about selling your franchise, no one wants to buy it.
Looking at the right side of the screen I see the same types of complaints for practically every franchise. So are they ALL bad? Are you saying no one is making any money with a franchise? Seems odd.
“Looking at the right side of the screen I see the same types of complaints for practically every franchise. So are they ALL bad? Are you saying no one is making any money with a franchise? Seems odd.”
99% of all franchise websites and newstand magazines portray franchising as surefire ticket to success and happiness with little to no failure or disagreements. The UnhappyFranchisee.com site is one of the very few sites focused on the problems and conflicts that often arise in franchise relationships. While I think we are more realistic and accurate than most sites, we are by design skewed to the negative. Also keep in mind that people with complaints are much more vocal than people who are content.
There are many franchise owners making money and even getting wealthy from their franchise investments. There are many reputable franchisors who are dedicated to providing their franchise owners with the tools and guidance to succeed. See sites like http://www.FranBest.com or http://www.TopNewFranchises.com to learn about some of them. But the truth is that there are many, many unhappy franchisees and many many franchisors who do not provide value for the royalties, ad fees and regulations they demand.
The lesson here is not “don’t buy a franchise” but rather do your homework, talk to as many franchisees as possible, and, if you proceed, buy the right franchise with the right expectations.
That being said… when it comes, specifically, to the “buy-a-job” janitorial franchises, it is remarkable how all the top franchise companies get the exact same complaints: underbidding jobs, not providing promised jobs, taking away jobs from one franchisee to give to another, etc. If there’s one area of franchising that deserves extra scrutiny, this is it.
I will not disagree what the current of past franchise owner’s experienced. It is valid, that these issues are real. Those who don’t believe in whats stated, buy one and experience it for yourself and only for yourself . Contact the FTC.gov and search around. You’ll find if not some, allot of lawsuits filed against these companies, they’ll pay hefty fine in agreement’s so they can brush it under the line of fire. Please don’t take my word for it, search for yourself. The franchise, I don’t care who it is, is ready for the next sale or the next opportunity in anyway they can make it happen. Always keep this in mind, you can fool the agreeable or the “I gotta have it”, but you cant fool a wise man. Don’t follow publications unless they can support it of all the franchisee business owners, not just a few. Research! Research! Research! The franchise only tell what they want to say to make a good pitch and broadcast it for sensationalism.
Check it out!
FTC.gov
Jim
I am thinking about purchasing a franchise in Atlanta and I have looked at the FDD. There does not appear to be any serious law suits or complaints. I am sure the only way to make real money is to find accounts on your own. I am paying for the model and experience that Jani-king offers. What am I missing?
Taking off the Gloves
Commercial cleaning franchisees sue
By Julie Bennett As published in: Franchise Times – August 2009
“Several pending court cases, which are all seeking class-action status, challenge the business model on which some of the largest commercial cleaning franchisors have operated for decades.
“Lawsuits have been filed against Jani-King International of Addison, Texas; Coverall Health-Based Cleaning System of Boca Raton, Florida; and Jan-Pro Franchising International of Alpharetta, Georgia.
“That business model, developed by Jani-King’s founders in 1974 and since copied by competitors, is promoted as a low-cost business opportunity. Each franchisor sells off regions of the country to master franchisors who then sell unit franchises to individuals—mostly minorities and immigrants—who pay franchise fees of $2,000 to $5,000, plus “finders’ fees” for a specific amount of monthly business. At Coverall, for example, a franchisee would pay a total of $10,750 for a franchise package that provides $1,500 of commercial cleaning business each month. The Coverall regional franchisor then provides all the training, obtains and distributes all the cleaning contracts, sells required supplies and insurance coverage and does all the billing and collections—services those with a native language other than English might find useful.
“But the lawsuits, filed recently in Massachusetts against all three companies and in Pennsylvania, Minnesota and California against Jani-King, contend that the cleaning companies misrepresent their offerings, because they do not have sufficient customers to guarantee each franchisee the amount of monthly cleaning business they purchase. Instead, the lawsuits allege, they breach their contracts by underbidding the amount of time and staffing required for each job, refusing to allow franchisees to inspect cleaning jobs or bid sheets before accepting or rejecting a job, offering geographically inconvenient jobs and unjustly taking jobs from one franchisee to re-sell them to others…”
[Read the entire Franchise Times article here Taking off the Gloves Commercial cleaning franchisees sue]
I am a female move from up north to the south in 2005 bought into the franchise ,my first account giving to me was a set up for failure which i out did the company Jani- King of Atlanta base on the package my total for the month should bring in over 4g a mouth when i did get to that mark thats when my fight begin with the office . After cleaning up the new account and was about to get a up grade in payment from my final account i was call in for a meeting base on a disagreement with an inside person one of the big dog of the office on that time and date i had other engagement and couldn’t make it , i was told” what ever you do you’ll have to make it to that meeting” at that time my response was because of the pressure, that the two things i have to do is say black and die , well that a no no in the south who dear you . That when the same person who i had the disagreement with went to my account came back with a written report of all kind of mist cleaning on the same account i’m about to get a up grade base on my cleaning abillity yet he came in with a report of mist cleaning and bar my staff and i from speaking to any one in the company , thats the way Jani – King of Atlanta play , i was the one who loss my money and intrest for any company who can treat people the way Jani-King of Atlanta do and i let go of ever thing and move on because the south isn’t the place to play .
To Jesse if can do or pay for some one eles to do your marketing you’ll be better off not Jan- King
Do not buy Jani King of Dayton or use their service.
I have been a franchisee for at least seven years. Out of 100 franchisee’s that signed up in the past 8-9 years, there are only about 22 that are still active. Does that tell anything about the company?
Jani King takes off at least 20% off the top. You have to pay out-of-pocket cleaning fluids, mops, buckets, barrels, sweepers, floor buffers, carpet shampooers, worker’s comp payments, unemployment, tax accountants and other misc, expenses which all eats into your profit. By the time your finished, you are lucky if you make $10 per hour. The office person at Jani King makes at least $15 an hour and her skill sets are much to be desired.
Here is a breakdown on what Jani King takes out: 10% franchise fee, 5% insurance and bonding, Example: if you would buy $1500 a month account, they take 5% off the top, which is around $75 a month. If you have a $15,000 account they would take approximately $750 or more a month. Why can’t they take a set fee.
Example: I have cleaned a building for seven years, with no incidents involving safety issues for insurance purposes and the building is approx. 12 years old, The building is worth less. With my clean record you would think the insurance rates would decrease, but this is how Jani King rips you off. Now the same thing goes on for administration cost (3%). If Jani King fees for this should be across the board no matter what your monthly account generates. Profit for Jani King. Then Jani King charges 1% for advertising, but if you want more business they charge you a finders fee when you are already paying advertising fees. Another Jani King rip-off.
Jani King is in the business to sell franchises. Once they sign you up, they don’t care if you fail or not, or make it because they always resell the account again. In Dayton, the have sold some contracts at least five times. Once again ,when you go sign up for a guaranteed amount of business per month, you have no say so in how much the contract pays to clean the buildiing. All Jani King has to do is offer you the business even if it is at a cut-rate amount. If you turn it down they have met their obligation, which rips off franchisees.
Some examples of businesses offered is run down machine shops, cleaning abortion clinics and other buildings already in poor condition. Jani King has probably lost over 100 contracts in the Dayton surrounding area since its inception about 15 years ago. Some of these include: Holiday Inn, Cubs Food, car dealerships, banks, office buildings and urgent care clinics.
If I was contemplating buying a franchise from Jani KIng I would run in the opposite direction. I would consider either starting my own cleaning business or going to Coverall or Jan Pro. Have I reminded you not to use Jani King as a business owner or buy a franchise? The contracts that Jani King sells to the businesses is generic and is not targeted to each individual companies needs. Jani King uses this to target franchisees to make it easy to replace them. It doesn’t matter how satisfied the owner of the company is with the franchisee.
I own a JaniKing franchise in Washington DC area which is a corporate owned region, i have owned it since June 1999, was 21 when purchased. All these complaints are somewhat real but it is the same for any business franchise or not, contracts will always be under bidded somewhat the purchaser always wants to save a dollar and keep quality service. In commercial cleaning you have to understand that the service side(daily cleaning) is not the profitable side it just opens the door for you to make profit, you have to sell your client on jobs such as floor work, window cleaning, etc. i too once complained but that gets you no where doing that gives you negative energy and once that sets in your in for a long ride to NOTHING. I made money from the start, but wanted more and started to see that the contracts i was recieving couldve been bidded higher, so i started to bid on them myself and guess who helped me JANIKING and i too was welcomed into the CUT THROAT BIz of Contract bidding Wars. that is life there will always be someone out there who wants it more and will under bid because they to no that the contract will generate more than what they bidded.
There are window cleaning millioners out here, you to can be one if you decide to better your practices. I see oppurtunity, so if your a complainer please get rid of your franchise it means more revenue for those who really want it!
Note: For those who complain about the deductions Fees from JaniKing, try going out there and hiring a customer service team, operations team, marketing team, and Sales team. Tell me what your profit will be after you pay them! Better yet just go and try to insure your cleaning business with the coverage you recieve as a franchisee. Any business out there has about 40% overhead. IF YOU NOT SPENDING MONEY BACK INTO YOUR BUSINESS YOUR NOT MAKING ANY MONEY.
Gary Borisy, CEO of the world-renowned Marine Biological Laboratory (MBL) in Woods Hole, MA, has rejected a request to meet with eight veteran MBL housekeepers whose jobs are slated to be outsourced to a controversial Texas firm, Jani-King Intn’l, Inc. Jani-King is facing class action lawsuits in multiple states for violating workers rights and labor laws.
As a result, several of the housekeepers came to New York City on February 5 in hopes of meeting with members of MBL’s Board of Overseers, Board of Trustees, and possibly with Borisy himself at a posh cocktail/dinner party for MBL executives. MBL has recently raked in major federal stimulus money intended to create quality jobs in Massachusetts. Housekeepers say MBL executives are flaunting the intentions of that government support by destroying existing living wage jobs with healthcare benefits and by targeting their lowest-paid staff members. Outsourcing the jobs to Jani-King Int’l, Inc. would also likely be a cost-shift to taxpayers and the state, forcing Massachusetts to pick up the tab for Jani-King/MBL employee health care benefits.
Since Borisy will not meet with them on Cape Cod, the housekeepers will attempt to attend the cocktail/dinner party for the MBL Board of overseers and trustees at the luxurious University Club of New York. The housekeepers will also seek an audience with the overseers and trustees at their meetings scheduled for Saturday in New York.
The University Club event will include a lecture from John W. Rowe, M.D., chairman of the MBL Board of Trustees, on the topic of “Myths and Realities of an Aging Society.” The housekeepers say the title of Rowe’s lecture seems ironic. Three of the housekeepers threatened with layoffs are in their sixties and now face the prospect of unemployment on the eve of retirement.
All eight of the affected housekeepers are women and each has individually served MBL for at least 10 years. They are among the lowest-paid workers of all MBL staff. Since the housekeeping work is a year-round function at MBL, executives have released no estimates publicly on what the outsourcing and cost-shift to the state for employee health care might save the lab. Regarding the dependability and quality of the work provided by the current housekeepers, Human Resources Director Susan Goux wrote to employees in a letter dated February 3, 2010 that, “The housekeepers have shown a dedication to their tasks for a long time.”
According to media reports, Jani-King Int’l, Inc has allegedly been labeling employees as individual “franchisees” to skirt laws and labor regulations in several states pertaining to minimum wages, unemployment benefits, and overtime pay.
In addition to the New York event, the housekeepers and their supporters have scheduled a vigil and press availability in Woods Hole at noon on Friday, February 12 at the town dock on MBL Street.
“We have given many years of hard work and proud service to MBL and MBL has received a lot of taxpayer stimulus money that is expected to be used to create good jobs, not destroy them,” said housekeeper Noreen McNamara. “We think it’s reasonable for Mr. Borisy and his board to meet with us face to face and answer some of the questions that workers and the community have about this plan. We hope a closer look at the situation will help MBL executives make a decision that lives up to the reputation of MBL and the values of the community.”
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© 2010 1199SEIU United Healthcare Workers East | Privacy Policy
1st amendment: See you are still “cutting and pasting” and are still without original thought. Of course, I see you are now “cutting and pasting” union based specialty sheets.
SEIU has notoriously attacked any/all companies that have dared to not have union representation, especially in the commercial cleaning field. They have picketed numerous buildings, hotels, airports etc… Them coming out against a company such as Jani-King is nothing new. SEIU has picketed many traditional companies in our industry such as EMS, GSF, Bulldog, 4M, ABM and numerous others. SEIU is it’s own worst enemy, at the end of the day, they get nothing additonal for the service members and the service members get a load of “trash” in return plus get to pay union dues.
Need to get better “cut and paste” stories to support your “claims” 1st amendment.
“SEIU is it’s own worst enemy, at the end of the day, they get nothing additonal for the service members…”
Get nothing additional? The fatcats at MBL were spending taxpayer stimulus money – meant to create jobs – wining and dining themselves at posh NY cocktail parties while at the same time callously sending employees – All women who had served MBL for at least ten years – to the unemployment line.
SEIU issued a press release, led the demonstration at the cocktail party, landed a big story in the Boston Globe, rightfully embarrassed MBL in national media, and 7 days later released a very different press release:
“We are pleased to have reached a mutually agreeable solution to the challenge of staffing an important, but seasonal part of our business,” said MBL director and CEO Gary Borisy. “This was a difficult issue to address at a trying economic time for the institution and our valued employees. In spite of the economic downturn, the MBL is proud to say that it has spurred job growth on Cape Cod, adding 33 new year-round positions and undertaking renovations that have employed more than 250 individuals. We must always be responsible stewards of the resources entrusted to us as a non- profit institution. This agreement enables us to do just that, while retaining long-time employees who are important members of the MBL family.”
This is why unions work and, while not perfect, are necessary. Left to their own devices many employers will exploit their workers for profit regardless of human suffering. Now that MA has determined that JaniKing franchisees are really employees, maybe they should get a union like SEIU to represent their interests and stop their own exploitation.
Guest:
MA came to no such conclusion. You are “mispeaking” which probably means you’re a steward or “high member” of SEIU. If you are so proud, why don’t you “reveal” yourself. Instead of “guest” let us know who you are at SEIU.
Did you get an increase for your “members” at MBL?
Did you get my tax money to pay for these additonal positions?
How about the facts of the picketing that I described above, what did you get for your “members” in Indianapolis and Cincy?
Don’t be fooled and don’t fool others. SEIU is a dangerous organization whose only “goal” is to add more members to collect more dues.
Thanks to the 11th-hour, 1199SEIU-negotiated deal, veteran housekeepers and 1199SEIU members at the Marine Biological Laboratory (MBL) in Woods Hole, New York will keep their jobs.
Jerry, I wouldn’t expect you to see that as very significant, as your company values exploitation of hardworking people’s hopes and dreams above all else. But to decent, ethical people, that’s a significant victory. To the women who were told their ten+ years of service wasn’t worth interrupting a cocktail party, it was significant.
Best of all, perhaps, it kept the MBL janitorial services from being outsourced to a janitorial franchise scam a MA judge has called nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.
The day will come when janitorial franchisees are afforded the union protection they deserve – and so desperately need. Enjoy the good old days while they’re here.
Guest: Already disspelled your garbage over on the “Jan-Pro” part of this site. Tired of repeating myself. SEIU is a corrupt union. Has been basically from day one. You want “truth” about SEIU read David Bago’s book. Don’t know/remember who David Bago is. Owner of EMS commercial cleaning here in Indianapolis. Don’t remember what you did? SEIU terrorized his family, picketed his customers, threatened him, his employee’s, his management staff.
SEIU is run by a bunch of “goons”. Those “goons” only care about themselves. Look no further than Indianapolis and Cincinnati for “verification” of what I’ve said about SEIU only caring about itself. Since the “agreement” signed by numerous “traditional companies” such as ABM. 4M, Bulldog, GSF and others, to only utilize “union workers” for the cleaning of “downtown” buildings, guess what? Those companies have lost numerous contracts, those companies have “layed off” numerous “union employee’s” due to the loss of those contracts, guess what? when those former employee’s asked “where’s my union protection, my union promised job” they got nothing but silence and extra unemployment benefits.
SEIU is nothing but a Joke, run by the biggest joker of all, President Obama.
You must be a big “Bago” supporter and have read his self-published book very carefully, Jerry, since you can’t even spell his name. Jeez, Jerry, it’s only 4 letters. You don’t have to have Obama’s advanced degrees to spell that.
… is that what you meant by “disspelled”?
Guest: Noticed how you still haven’t “revealed” yourself. Like picking on “spelling” issues. Didn’t see you attack substance. Obviously, your omissions, must mean that I’m correct in what I’m saying.
Time for you to reveal who you are, who you work for, admit that you are paying for Jerry “v’ and his “band” of disgruntled franchisees.
I’m always a “fan” of someone who exposes and stands up against “goons” (don’t think i misspelled) such as the SEIU.
Also noticed how you didn’t have the “guts” to admit that you are a “steward” of SEIU or at least a “supporter”.
David Bego is a true hero, also, noticed how you didn’t counter that since the “agreement” that union population for the downtown buildings in both cities have declined dramatically.
When all else fails, attack the spelling, not the substance.
Go find another site that doesn’t have someone with enough “guts” to call you out.
It would be interesting to know David Bego’s opinion of the treatment of workers by slave trade franchises like Jan-Pro, Jani-King & Coverall. I’d imagine he’d provide a pretty scathing indictment of the low-balling ponzi scheme scammers he has to compete against as an ethical independent commercial cleaning company.
I wonder if you’d still be calling him a hero if he shared what he thinks of your organization, Jerry.
Guest: Why are you so afraid to “reveal” yourself. I think its funny how someone who knows so little about our industry, so little about owner/operator systems, so little about cleaning in general, comes in here and starts “blowing his horn” about how great the SEIU is and what they have done positvely for the cleaning industry as a whole.
Still hasn’t made response to what SEIU did for the “Justice for Janitors” campaign, how many lives they actually ruined, how many contracts were lost, how many “union members” are now “unemployed”, how it was nothing but a bunch of “hype” and how they now won’t reveal any of the figures that I’m “calling them out on”.
Still hasn’t “denied” the fact that they are “assisting” 1st amendment and the attorneys that are fighting against companies such as Jan-Pro, Jani-King and Coverall. That assistance is in the form of money, information and technical support.
Still hasn’t made an honest statement really about anything. “slave trade”, wow, how disrespectful to the tens of thousands owner/operators working for their respective customers each night across this country. REALLY!
In regards to David Bego and the other members of BSCAI, ask them if they were so “distraught” about owner/operator based companies, why are they part of BSCAI, why are people like OpenWorks, Environmental Control, Mallard Services and numerous other “traditonal companies” starting/branching off into “owner/operator” segments. How about companies such as ServiceMaster which really is the originator of the “franchise concept” in the commercial cleaning industry, what about Bonus’ roots were founded in the “traditional” format and then once purchased by Arlene Cavanaugh, switched over to owner/operator format. How about we talk about City Wide and Office Pride which utilize a combination of owner/operator and regional developer types of format.
Low ball? REALLY, I could give you dozens of companies in the Indianapolis area that are much lower than the “big three” on a consistent basis. The real “low ballers” are the small “mom and pops” and the “regional players” trying to make a name. You want to know the “lowest of the low”, let’s talk about ABM, Varsity, GCS and other “national providers”, they “bid” facilities on pricing format not seen since the 1980′s. (How do I know, I’ve been in this industry, earning my “bones” since 1984!!!!)
Ponzi Scheme? REALLY! Even Judge Young, backed off that statement, but people like you, 1st amendment and others continue to come back to one part of one phrase that he cleaned up later in his “ruling”.
Hope you got more, hope you got better, your out-classed and out-gunned. Better go get some more “goons”, then it may be a fair argument.
Guest: Find it funny how one minute you are “justifying” SEIU’s attack against David Bego, how they followed his children to school yelling, holding signs and making vulger gestures against teenagers and the next, wanting to call him “ethical business person”. Wow! Talk about multiple personality disorder.
Well, we already know what he thinks about SEIU, he wrote a book about it. I think it’s safe to say, he has less anguish, less anger, less emotion about Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall and the other owner/operator based competitors, if for no other reason no one from those organizations have personally threatened him, his family, his customers, his employee’s, his management staff etc…..
Guest, your a JOKE!!!!! Come up with some substance, come up with some facts, come up with something of value or reasonable opinion, or MOVE ON!!!
It’s interesting to reread the original article and the relevant comments that followed – minus the obvious attempts to distract from the central point:
“the lawsuits allege, they breach their contracts by underbidding the amount of time and staffing required for each job, refusing to allow franchisees to inspect cleaning jobs or bid sheets before accepting or rejecting a job, offering geographically inconvenient jobs and unjustly taking jobs from one franchisee to re-sell them to others.” Franchise Times
“franchise is a scam. I purchased a Jani-King Commercial Cleaning Franchise after reading they were a great franchise opportunity in several franchise magazines… I later learned this type of scam preys on people who have never been in business for themselves… I lost all my savings, but hopefully others can learn from my mistake.” letshelp
“If I could do it all over again I would invest in real estate on Venus before having to deal with this again.” Rickety Rabbit
“Jani King is in the business to sell franchises. Once they sign you up, they don’t care if you fail or not, or make it because they always resell the account again.” Paul
“You would do better burning your money before you give it to Jani King.” Susan
Jerry reminds me of the little Dutch boy running around trying to plug the leaks in the dike. I am so glad that he spends so much time here futily attempting damage control since that’s time he’s not out selling empty franchise dreams.
Keep up the good work, Jerr!
Guest: Still not revealing yourself, you lose vailidity and “standing” when you are too “scared”, too “tired”, too “unitelligent” to figure out what to “call yourself”.
Let’s think of the “numbers” for a minute:
Currently, there are over thirty (30) thousand owner/operators working in conjunction with the big three(3). These (30) thousand are cleaning at least thirty (30) thousand buildings on a nightly basis.
Now, out of that sheer number, do you not think you’re going to have some “disgruntled” , “unhappy” , “underperforming”, “underachieveing”, “non-producing” owner/operators?
Could you make up your mind, one minute, in court, you are claiming that Jani-King, Coverall, Jan-Pro are in the “cleaning business”, now you are quoting that we are in the “franchising business”. You are very hard to follow”
I’m not Dutch, I’m of German descent! No damage control in regards to your comments, I actually find them humerous.
Guest: One final thought, would it surprise you to find out that I no longer work for Jan-Pro, never worked for Coverall nor Jani-King. Been in this industry (commercial cleaning) for over twenty-five (25) years!!!!! Seen best, worst, all, large, small etc….. Know this industry as well, if not better than most. Know you are a fraud, know you lack “standing”, know you are “scared”.
Jerry how much are they paying for your comments that you do daily.
Jerry wrote “No damage control in regards to your comments, I actually find them humerous.”
I have to admit, this one’s over my head. I did damage a rotator cuff once, but I don’t remember mentioning that in any of my comments.
I’m confused.
Sandra: Unlike 1st amendment, Iloveamerica, Jerry “v” and now “guest”. I have no vested interest in the profit or failure of Jani-King, Jan-Pro, Coverall. My point is, I’ve been in this industry (commercial cleaning) all of my adult life. It’s not for everyone, there are good companies that go out of business, there are bad one’s that are a “mega hit” in the industry, but at the end of the day, there are no models that are “perfect”.
Should there be “reforms” ? Absolutely
Should people be “fired”? Without a doubt
Should the companies admit they made mistakes? Yes, but without legal ramifications.
Owner/Operators make mistakes, they have fault in this process as well as the “franchising companies”, you want it all, don’t want any of the blame, don’t want “shared” responsibility.
No offense, No Business is without failures. Even McDonald’s!!!!!
Guest: Read your own comments in regards to “damage control”. Should I draw you a picture, I know attorney’s have a lack of common sense, but come on!
Someone just pointed out that Jerry probably meant “humOrous” and was not referring to the long bone of the upper arm.
If so, my mistake
Guest: Your so funny, Obviously you type slowly and use spell check. Talk about “wasted motion” and “lack of language skills”. Did you have to get your “counsel” of attorneys together to come up with that one? If so, send the bill ok?
Guest: Still waiting for your comments, “cut and paste” responses to my questions, thoughts, issues over on the “Jan-Pro” area. Hopefully, unlike 1st amendment, you will “walk and chew gum” at the same time!
Guest: When you look at all of the “postings” on this site and on the Jan-Pro site, why is it you only ‘pick” on me about my spelling? Since you are perfect, since you probably have a legal secretary or your “council” of attorney’s to review, edit, spell check, grammer check etc….
Sandra, don’t let Guest pick on your previous post on June 8th, by GOD, I’ll get on him like “stink on mud”!!!!!
Jani-King International Agrees To Pay $100,000 Civil Penalty To Settle FTC Charges Over Franchise Operations
Dallas, Texas-based Jani-King International, Inc. has agreed to pay a $100,000 civil penalty as part of a settlement of Federal Trade Commission charges that it failed to provide poten- tial purchasers of its commercial cleaning services franchises with key information. The FTC alleged that Jani-King did not provide documentation to support its contract-based earnings claims, or information about the franchise’s litigation history and current franchisees. These would be violations of the FTC’s Franchise Rule, and the settlement also would require Jani-King to comply with the rule.
The FTC’s Franchise Rule requires franchise sellers to give potential buyers a detailed disclosure document containing 20 categories of key information at least 10 days before the buyer legally commits to the purchase. The document includes informa- tion about the terms and conditions under which the franchise operates, audited financial information, the litigation history of the franchisor and its principals, and information about existing franchisees and the circumstances surrounding the termination of any franchisees. Further, if a franchisor makes earnings claims, it must provide franchisees with a disclosure document containing the substantiation for those claims.
Jani-King sells its commercial cleaning franchises through- out the United States, advertising in general circulation news- papers and distributing promotional material at franchise and business opportunity shows, according to the FTC complaint detailing the charges in this case. The fees for Jani-King’s franchises range from $6,500 to $16,750, and Jani-King promises potential franchisees significant assistance in operating their businesses, including providing them with cleaning contracts that have specified levels of initial gross monthly billings.
The complaint alleges that Jani-King made earning claims but failed to provide the required substantiation for those claims. In addition, the FTC alleged that in numerous instances, Jani- King failed to provide prospective franchisees with information required by the Franchise Rule, including:
* a complete and accurate disclosure of the franchisor’s litigation history including any violations of franchise law, fraud or misrepresentation during the previous seven fiscal years; and
* a disclosure of the names, addresses and telephone numbers of other existing franchisees.
The proposed consent judgment to settle these charges would require Jani-King to pay the $100,000 civil penalty within 10 days after the court enters the judgment. The settlement also would permanently prohibit the defendant from violating the Franchise Rule, and contains various reporting provisions designed to assist the FTC in monitoring Jani-King’s compliance.
At the request of the FTC, the Department of Justice filed the complaint and proposed consent judgment in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Texas, in Dallas, on July 20. The Commission vote to authorize filing was 5-0.
NOTE: This consent judgment is for settlement purposes only and does not constitute an admission by the defendant of a law violation. Consent judgments have the force of law when signed by a judge. The FTC has developed a free fact sheet for anyone interested in purchasing a franchise. The fact sheet, titled “Franchise and Business Opportunities,” describes the requirements of the Franchise Rule and suggests questions to ask before deciding to invest
Copies of the fact sheet, the complaint and the proposed consent judgment are available from the FTC’s Public Reference Branch, Room 130, 6th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20580; 202-326-2222; TTY for the hearing impaired 1-866-653-4261. To find out the latest FTC news as it happens, call the FTCþs NewsPhone at 202-326-2710. FTC news releases, fact sheets and other information also are on the Internet at the FTCþs World Wide Web site at http://www.ftc.gov
(FTC File No. 932 3067)
(Civil Action No. 3-95-CV-1492-G)
1st amendment: So? What do you think this means, then I’ll hit you with what it says.
To someone who calls himself jerry but wont give out his real full name.
You want to know what that means that means that janiking was trying to be Deceptive and Fraudulent. They were hidding so many things. They were trying to hide all the Lawsuits that they got hit from!
By the way I know a Veteran who got ripped off by janiking. He invested Thousands of Dollars. Thats really a bunch of crap if you ask me.
1st amendment, Jerry “v”, ILoveAmerica and friend of “Guest”:
Please review your own “cut and paste” article. It doesn’t say anything about Jani-King being deceptive or fraudulant. What it stated was “Jani-King made earnings claims, but failed to provide proof of those earnings claims”. Simple, straight forward, if it was something “dramatic”, especially since the FTC is controlled now by the supporters of the Obama Administration and the fact that Obama is the defacto leader of the SEIU, don’t you think if they could have “proven” more, they would have, they would have not “settled” , they would have fined them a larger amount etc….?
Just wanted you to put your “thoughts” into writing first.
I’m sorry about your veteran, there are many veterans currently finding improved quality of life, growing their businesses within the Big “3″. Probably, just like you, he didn’t listen, learn, invest proper amount of effort, didn’t follow the rules, didn’t care to build his business, etc…. Thank him for the service given to his country, if he would like to “speak” for himself, I would be honored to contact him directly, assist him in starting, growing, building a commercial cleaning business. Unlike you and Guest, I’ve got 25 years experience and I know not only how to build a company from the ground up, but I know how to best utilize the tools and opportunities given to “owner/operators” and build their business with the “jump start” provided.
Always remember, “Lemonade from Lemons”!
“By the way I know a Veteran who got ripped off by janiking. He invested Thousands of Dollars. Thats really a bunch of crap if you ask me.”
These franchises prey on veterans under the guise of patriotism. What they really value is that vets are trained to obediently follow orders and often lack alternatives.
There’s even a program called VetFran designed to help franchisors dupe vets into buying their franchises. Jani-King, Jan-Pro, Coverall, Servicemaster, Vanguard, MTO, Office Pride, Openworks, and target desperate and shell-shocked vets through it. Some companies have no shame.
[PS Jerry pls take your meds and wait 45 minutes before posting one of your interminable but "humerous" responses.]
Guest: Wow! How disrespectful to Veteran’s ” the obediently follow orders and often lack alternatives” What the HELL! Veteran’s are some of the most capable, dependable, smartest, common sense oriented and most are extremely succesful in EVERYTHING that they do.
So the dozens/hundreds of Veterans that are currently working on their businesses for the Big “3″ are fakes? They don’t exist, they are limited in their alternatives? You’re brazen, You’re an IDIIOT!!!!!!!
I’m not on meds, if you can’t handle things without checking with others before you write your GARBAGE!!! not my problem.
Your obvious disrespect, vulgar feelings for our Veterans is unwarranted.
Guest: Talk about “shame”, what you stated about our Veterans should surprise me, but people like you and others associated with the SEIU, supporters of Obama, most attorneys and of course, Iloveamerica, Jerry “v”, 1st amendment have those same feelings. Just surprised you had the “gonads” to put it into writing.
That franchisors value veterans as franchisees because of their willingness and ability to follow a required system is not my opinion, it’s a fact.
Marine vet & Entrepreneur columnist Joe Lindenmayer says vets are sought after by FRs because “A good franchisee is someone who is willing to operate within the guidelines of the established business model, someone who won’t stray too far outside the proverbial box…”
From Franchise Prospector: “Veterans leaving the military have learned how to follow orders. They have worked within a highly regimented system with detailed rules about how things should be done. Business format franchises have the same sort of rules and regulations… Veterans are experienced with procedures and protocols but not necessarily equipped with general business knowledge…
“Veterans… have years of experience in a system very similar to the franchise system–but even more demanding. Some people who have not had any military training get frustrated by the limits on the powers of business format franchise owners. They may be uncomfortable knowing that many of their business decisions are out of their control. Veterans, on the other hand, know that there is nothing wrong with having faith in a system… whether it is a restaurant franchise or the United States Armed Forces.”
Willingness to follow direction is cited by franchisors as a top reason they aggressively recruit servicemen & vets via special programs & publications.
If you want to attack the people who are disrespecting vets, attack those who are selling them crappy scam franchises that will leave them broke and discouraged.
Guest: I was quoting you. You made it sound like those were your words, didin’t you? Next time, be a little more careful, take your time, make sure you “cut and paste” first then send. I know, I can think on my own two feet and “shuck and jive” at the same time.
Attorneys, SEIU members, loyal followers of Obama have an issue with doing that. I fully understand your “limitations”, I’ll try and do better, type slower, not think as quick and I’ll still have to wait!!
I’m attacking you, you are spewing garbage so quick, making STUPID and DEMEANING comments, that you might want to “simmer down” and stick with the issues at hand.
1st amendment: In regards to your “cut and paste” on the FTC ruling quoted earlier, you might want to TELL THE TRUTH!!!! You are quoting something that happened in 1995!!!!!! At some point and time, you need to utilize “current history”. Hell, even your bankruptcy is forgiven after 7 years!
To jerry ?? From Indiana??
I have talked to veterans who have been ripped-off by these Fake cleaning franchisors.
It’s really trully sad the way these fake franchisors hurt and ripoff our veterans who are going out there and loosing there lives for us to have freedom.
I talked to this Gentleman to an American veteran who had to get an Attorney and take legal action because they were Ripping him off.
He was also starting his own class action Lawsuit.
How can you do this to our Veterans? How dare you!
1st amendment, Jerry “v”, Iloveamerica, friend of “guest”:
Ok. Give them my information, I will be more than happy to work with them, get them on the right path and handle things the correct way. What more do you want from me?
Oh, you don’t have his information, this person doesn’t exist, he’s a “charge is louder than fact” I’m sorry, I’m on the “short bus” too often. I catch on eventually.
I don’t do anything to Veterans but thank them for their service, appreciate their bravory, pray for them and their families, buy them a meal when I see them in restaurants and offer my assistance to them in any way possible.
Funny, people like you, guest and the attorneys, SEIU members that are your friends only “use” veterans when it suits your purpose. For that, I hope you rot in HE–!!!! You bore me, you tire me. Let’s agree to get off the Veteran Issue.
To jerry the looney monkey in Indiana who says that he is waching me and that he is going to come and get me.
In response to one of your June 30, 2010 comments
You say that you have been in this business for 25 years then why were you working for jan-pro? Shouldn’t you have your own business with 100 employees. I guess its much easier for you to be a goon for jan-pro than to do real work. The best advice you should have given Lee is to stay away from cleaning franchisors because they control you and they can take all of your accounts away at any time for any reason. I have witnessed managers get mad and just want to take accounts away from people for no reason. Just read all the comments all over the internet of all the people who have been ripped-off.
1st amendment, Jerry “v” , SEIU Member, Attorney at law, Iloveamerica, friend of “guest”
I had my own company for over 8 years. I had over 150 full and part-time cleaners working throughout the State of Florida. Been there, done that. Maybe that’s why/how I know so much more than you, your “friends”, your “partners” , your “attorneys” etc…….. Real work, wow!!!!! Stripped Floors, Cleaned Toilets, Mopped Floors, used Back Pack Vacuums, used Auto-Scrubbers, Propane Burnishers, Propane Stripping Machines, Cord Electric Burnishers, Battery Burnishers, Dump Trash, Wash Windows, Polish Concrete, Polish Marble and so much more than you, guest , SEIU members etc… (by the way, all of the equipment listed are machines used by people in the past 25 years of the commercial cleaning industry)
You’ve witnessed what? How could you witness that, remember, Jan-Pro STOLE your accounts, THEY DEFRAUDED YOU, They beat your dog, took your children, followed your wife to work and numerous other things (wait a minute, that wasn’t you, that was SEIU goons)
Can you get up to SPEED, Please!
25 years inhaling cleaning products… now I understand.
To jerry?? From Indiana ??
Who said that he is waching me and that he is going to come and get me!
For those of Anago who don’t know him he works for the cleaning franchiors and is getting paid alot of money $$$$$$.
He is in here 7 days a week 24 hours a day trowing all kinds of mud at the wall to try and see what sticks but nothing does.
The cleaning franchisors are desperate and are trying to do damage control.
They will Lie and say anything on these blogs to defame me but Jerry from indiana ?? Wont reveal his real name ?? He said that he is an insider at jan-pro but then he says that he doesnt work there???????????? Which one is it ???
Then he says that he is going to reform jan-pro but how can he do so when he said that he doesn’t work for jan-pro ??? Again which one is it. He is just a monkey lying and saying anything because the cleaning franchisors are afraid that they will get in allot of trouble for ripping of so many people.
The money making Racket is coming to an end. Even a Judge called them a modified Ponzi Scheme!
To jerry??? from Indiana ????
Who said that he is waching and stocking this blog and that he is going to come and get me!
So now you say that you had 150 people working for you. Then you say it was in Florida but now your working for jan-pro as a manager in Indiana, which one is it ????????????? Nobody believes anything you say.
Its funny how you say that you had 150 workers. If you made so much money why did you get a job as a manager working for jan-pro. You make no sence at all. I can see right through your LIES.
Why do you LIE so much??????
Anybody with there own business and 150 workers doesn’t get a job with jan-pro as an operations manager. I don’t believe a word you say. You are nothing but a LIAR just like jan-pro.
The only money that you are making is the money that jan-pro is paying you to come in here and do Damage control but your Racket Scam is coming to an end. A Judge recently called this fake cleaning franchising a modified Ponzi Scheme!
1st amendment, Jerry “v” , Iloveamerica, friend of “guest”:
You realize your on the “jani-king” post right? Any way, I’m lost again, where am I? Oh yes, I’m a liar. You claim to “know me”, if you “know me” then you know I’m not a Liar. So which is it, YOU KNOW ME or you don’t. I’m still on that “short bus” that “guest” gave me coinage for.
So am I still working for Jan-Pro or not, if I am, then when did I ever say I was an Operations Manager for them? If you’ll “cut and paste” where I said that and show it to me, I would appreciate it.
I know it’s difficult for you to “walk and chew gum”, you’ve already stated numerous times that even the Jan-Pro attorneys that you met with told you that the FDD was hard to understand and that you had a right to sue them over the language and the fact they stole your accounts, committed fraud, perjury, rico violations, chased down your mother, beat your dog, made fun of your wife, called your children names etc… I know, you are the TRUTH and I’m a LIAR.
To someone who calls himself jerry ?? who says that he is from Indiana or Florida ?? Who said that he is waching me and that he is going to come and GET ME !
Let me see. Your in here everyday. Your on here 24 hours a day. You protect the cleaning franchisors specially jan-pro. It’s only obvius that you own a Master franchise and that is why you are posting all this crap. The way I see it it’s both you own a master franchise and you are also getting paid to come in here and bable all of your monkey dung!
You said that you were an INSIDE PERSON. Then recently you said that you were with management. Then you said that you would never ever and no way in hell buy a unit franchise but you sure PUMP other people into buying one. You however said that you would buy a Master franchise. Which shows that you probably own a master franchise. Either way jan-pro and the cleaning franchisors are paying you alot of MONEY $$$$$$.
Finally you try and be funny and add some more of your monkey dung remarks. I guees since you can’t deny that these fake cleaning franchises have ripped-off so mnay people like single Moms, Veterans and hard working American Families you have to resort to your not funny pshyco bable remarks, but I asure you that for the people that lost there houses or livelihood because of the cleaning franchiors scam it’s not funny at all . We have so much overwhelming proof that it will singe the hair of a MONKEYS back!
1st amendment, Iloveamerica, Pimp my “attorney”, SEIU member, Illegal alien supporter, friend of “guest”, guest and Jerry “v”.
Physco bable. “hair off monkey’s rear”, ” slinging monkey crap”, “troll”, “Liar”, “fool”, “coward”, and so many other names you’ve called me by is amazing that you accuse me of “physco bable”.
So, I go from being a “no body”, to being “operations manager”, to being a “fraud”, to being a “master owner”, well at least I’m progressing up the “food chain”.
I feel for anyone that loses money in a business. Whether that business is cleaning, restaurant, gas station, food store, clothing store, fitness place etc… But you know what? Sometimes it happens. That’s Life. Just because it happens doesn’t mean the person(s) that loaned them the money, showed them the store, stocked their shelves with products is at fault. Sometimes, people think that owning a business is “cool”, but its not just “cool” its alot of work, tears, sweat, blood, time, effort and guess what ? sometimes when you do everything right, you still lose!!!!!
Owner/Operator systems have been around for decades! Even in other businesses such as trucking, restaurants, learning centers, daycares, etc…. Your problem is, you want to blame someone for your “loss”, guess what? you’ve got no one else to blame but yourself.
1st Amendment:
Jerry may be a Master, but he certainly isn’t doing this on behalf of corporate. The franchisor undoubtedly knows that Jerry’s constant posts are actually helping to boost these blogs higher in the search engines and making them more visible.
Corporate would know that his constant comments have helped this discussion stay in the #1 and #2 spot on the home page consistently.
And corporate would know that prospective franchisees will pick up the real attitude they keep hidden by his hateful dismissal of the identical complaints that are so widespread they must have credence. No matter how obvious it is that these companies churn accounts, the Jerry’s will always blame it on franchisees not following the system.
The more Jerry comments, the more people are warned.
Guest: BRAVO!!!! As usual, you think the “least” of people, you don’t think that they can “figure” things out on their own, that they are now “flocking” into Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall and other offices in droves just to see what all the “talk” is about.
Just because you represent and work with 1st amendment and he has issues understanding the FDD, can’t follow Policy and Procedures, was a business failure, loves the illegal aliens, believes that the SEIU is going to “save all janitors” (or is that you) and has a financial “hand” in all of this mess, you seem to think good, honest, hard working, driven people can’t figure it out on their own.
I personally could care less about “corporate” of Jan-Pro. Again, if you had bothered reading any of my previous posts where I have openly called for the removal of Rich Kissane and the other “lackeys” that he has placed in the top of the “food chain” and have given “information” by which to draw the primary equity holder of Jan-Pro into the fight and actually properly set the ‘standard” for reform in the industry, I am honored that instead of it “languishing” near the bottom because of the “stupidity” of comments made by 1st amendment and other “disgruntled” minor minions, I’m good with that.
Maybe you can come up with something more “educational” to speak about vs. what 1st amendment comes up with.
I’ll give you plenty of time to read and respond. I know you have to run any comments through a filter first.
1st amendment, Jerry “v”, friend of “guest”, SEIU board Member, Friend of the illegal aliens, Telemundo producer, Iloveamerica:
You shuold be awake by now. Even in California it’s at least “taco time” isn’t it?
Just wanted to update everyone on this site. As you recall, I had to take a “breath” last night, because my one Operations Manager who goes to KKK meetings on the 2nd Friday of the month, my other Operations Manager who goes to the SEIU/Black Panther meetings on the 1st Friday of the month, but because last Friday was a holiday, they both had meetings last night. What a surprise, they both use the same meeting “hall”!!! So, needless to say, they had to call Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, raise the ghost of former Senator Byrd to come in and settle the “troops” down.
As my “master” took his yaht out today, I was forced to go into the basement and feed/water all of the illegal aliens we are “training” to become the next batch of owner/operators. NEWS FLASH!!! This just in from Telemundo, “master owner” in California admits to writing bad checks to illegal aliens for services performed on underbid accounts, more details later.
Now to show that I’m not as mean the “master”, one of our illegal aliens gave birth last night despite our best efforts to have her wait at least ten (10) days, she gave birth to a beautiful baby girl. To show that I’m not without feeling, I immediately explained to the illegal alien, that “wet foot, dry foot” didn’t apply to her as she was coming into the world. I then took the mother, sold her a starter kit at 5X the cost of the products and equipment given to her, forced her to take a tremedously underbid account, called the customer and told them I was putting an illegal alien into their facility, who was untrained, unprepared, never visited their account before, didn’t have the alarm code etc… Asked them to call me on Monday morning with all the complaints, so I could fine her for each item missed. In the meantime, I stole her cellphone and have begun calling it every two hours so I can fine her $50.00 each time. By the time this weekend is over, I shuold have at least 10K in my pocket.
What you ask about the baby? Well the “master” and I have decided to “sell” the baby to the highest bidder and pocket the money. We wil make a large donation/gift in the baby’s name to the owners of Franchise Times, Frannet, Vetnet and any other “net” willing to name us in the top “5″ of their franchise list.
More later…………
To all that read this “post” The above listed posting made by me was a “shock” writing. It was meant to be outrageous, it was meant to be descriptive and yes it was meant to be “on the edge”. Yes, it may have very well even been “over the edge”. I personally don’t have a “racist” view or bone in my body. If anyone took “real” offense to that post, I am truly sorry. However, it was done for a reason and that reason is as follows:
On this site, there are numerous people that have called, intimated and out right printed the following:
1. ALL Jan-Pro International employees are Liars, Scam Artists, Thieves, Fakes and have committed crimes that are both civally wrong, criminally wrong and simply aren’t true. Are there some “bad apples” that are employees at Jan-Pro International? Without a doubt. I have personally called numerous times for the removal of Rich Kissane and his band of “lackeys”. He failed as the CEO of OneSource and he certainly isn’t doing anyone a favor by staying at JPI.
2. ALL “master franchisors” have committed fraud, have stolen, have lied, have committed terrible acts and have taken direct advantage of illegal immigrants, immigrants in general, those with military service, moms, daughters, sons and fathers. That is sheer nonsense!!! It is wrong to make “blanket statements” such as those, I have personally met several men and women that are “masters” at Jan-Pro those people run their businesses the right way, those people are church goers, leaders in their communities, family people and good citizens. The disgust that you have “spewed” against ALL is unjust and unfair. ARE there “masters” that deserve to be “replaced”, “removed”, “retrained”, “warned” and “encouraged to sell”? Without a doubt. This is my primary reason for calling out both Rich Kissane and Jacques LaPointe. Both of these men have done great “harm” by not handling these issues correctly, quickly, without hesitation and without distinction.
ALL “master employee’s” are common thieves, violent, demeaning, improperly trained, improperly monitored etc…. Again, you make “blanket statements”. Are there some “bad apples” again, Without a Doubt!!!!! But again, I have met several of the people you are describing, do they have the experience that I do, NO, do they have the passion for the industry as I do, NO are they as capable as I would demand of my Operations and Sales People, NO. But they for the most part are good, honest, hard working, meaningful people. (Possibly “former Jan-Pro Operations Manager should put his two cents in here).
All owner/operators are failing, are being cheated, are “just going along for the ride”, don’t know any better, are all disgruntled, are all wanting to leave. Again, these are “blanket statements” that simply aren’t true. There are approx. thirty (30) thousand owner/operators working on their customers every night of the week, some of those thirty (30) thousand actually have employees working for/with them as well, those people, if they were as you say they are “unhappy, unwilling to perform, lackeys etc…” well guess what? If that were true, couldn’t they, wouldn’t they simply “walk away” and leave at least thirty (30) thousand buildings “unclean” for at least one night, one week etc…
If you bother to read my other posts that I have made, I have called on the replacement of Jan-Pro upper managment, I have called on new policy and procedures to be directed both towards “masters” and the “employees of masters” in regards to the owner/operators, I have called on new policy and procedures in regards to training, fines, oversite management, owner/operator envolvement in issues that effect the “corporation as a whole” for you see, I’ve always felt that owner/operators are “investors” in the corporation and should be treated as such by regional advisory councils, scheduled meetings with corporate management, training seminars etc….
Problem with 1st amendment, guest and several of the others that continually post here, they only talk about “one side”, they only speak “ill” of everyone of the the “big 3″, they only speak “ill” of the employees and “frontline” management, they only speak “ill” of the system as a whole.
I anxiously await some reasonable comments directed my way.
To jerry who owns a master franchise with jan-pro.
Now you hit an all time LOW! You think that making fun of people who speak more than one language or look a certain way is funny.
For your information slavery has been abolished. For your information women have the right to vote.
I guess you find it funny or ok to rip-off people that you think might be immigrants. Do you walk around all day long labeling everybody?
So I guess that if someone looks different than you, you have no problem being racist towards them or ripping them off. You forget that this country is made up of different people from all over the world. You forget that Latinos, Blacks, whites, Asians, Indians are all in the Military and fighting for this country and they do so together.
You call those ladies that came out on TV who exposed jan-pro illegal aliens but you don’t even know them. You just label them. You said it yourself your racist. Do you walk around all day long labeling people ???
How do you think that some of these ladies sons who are in the Military will feel when you call there Moms illegal aliens. Meanwhile jan-pro is also ripping them off.
You think you are funny with your racist comments. Is that why jan-pro was going to FIRE you?
Who else are you racist to? Are you also racist to handicapped people, old people, people of a different race other than yours?
I guess your true self is coming out. In your book if someone looks different than you its ok to rip them off.
Anybody looking at buying a fake cleaning franchise from jan-pro this is some of the crap that you will have to deal with so don’t buy a fake cleaning franchise with jan-pro.
1st amendment: Obviously the “intended humor” was lost on you. I was simply doing a “parody” as explained in my last posting, was it “over the top” ? Yes, did I apologize and explain? Yes.
I find it funny how you can call innocent people “crooks”, “scam artist” , “thieves”, “liars”, “cheats”, “disgusting”, etc…. and some how that’s ok. I’m sorry isn’t that “labeling” as well?
You have had a free rein on this and numerous other sites. Those days on this site is over. I have no problem looking at myself in the mirror on a daily basis, I have no problem sleeping at night, I have no problem “calling a spade a spade” etc… Racist? No Bigot?No do I have a problem with illegal aliens? Yes do I have a problem with Telemundo, CBS News, ABC News, CNN, NBC News, MSNBC, PBS and others “skewing” the truth, or out and out mis-reporting and mis-representing the facts of something? Yes
My true self, I don’t rip people off, if you knew me (as you claimed on previous postings) you know that is not the case. I don’t cheat people, I don’t lie to people, I try not to mis-represent anything intentionally etc… Can you say the same thing?
I don’t care what color someone’s skin is, don’t care what language they speak, don’t care where they came from, what religion they practice or if they practice. Only thing I care about is what/who a person is. Their character, their honesty, their belief in themselves and their strength of family.
You continue to go on and on, you continue to call me, Jan-Pro International employees, Jan-Pro Master Owners, Employees of those Master Owners and the current group of thirty (30) thousand owner/operators doing things the right way, building their businesses the right way, servicing the customer the right way all the names you want to. I’ll be here to set the record “straight”. Eventually, you’ll tire, eventually you’ll lose your court case and go on trying to blame others for the next failing venture you undertake.
People like jerry from Indiana who owns a master franchise think that the following article is funny, but I don’t find it’s funny when single Moms get ripped-off.
PRESS RELEASE
5-21-09
JUDGE AWARDS MAXIMUM DAMAGES IN EEOC PREGNANCY BIAS SUIT AGAINST JANITORIAL COMPANY
Owner Fired Housekeeper Solely Because of Pregnancy, Federal Agency Charged
DALLAS – A federal district court today awarded the maximum damages of $50,000 and significant injunctive relief in favor of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) in a discrimination lawsuit against a Dallas-based commercial janitorial company, the agency announced today.
According to the EEOC’s suit, the owners of First Sreymco, LLC, doing business as Jani-King, reduced the work hours of housekeeper Sonia Alvarado simply because she was pregnant and subsequently fired her. The company ignored medical assurances that Alvarado presented to them, the EEOC said, and co-owner Michelle Myers told her that the company did not want to take any risks because of her pregnancy.
Such conduct violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended by the Pregnancy Discrimination Act, under which employment discrimination on the basis of pregnancy, childbirth, or related medical conditions constitutes unlawful sex discrimination. In June 2007, Alvarado filed a discrimination charge with the EEOC, initiating an investigation by the agency’s Dallas District Office.
The EEOC’s suit (EEOC v. First Sreymco, LLC, d/b/a Jani-King , Civ. 3:08—CV—1607–D) was filed in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Texas, Dallas Division, on September 12, 2008. Despite receiving notice of the lawsuit, Jani-King failed to file an answer to the litigation or otherwise appear in the case, and the court entered a default judgment against the company on May 13, 2009.
Judge Sidney A. Fitzwater awarded $50,000, which is the maximum amount of damages an employer having fewer than 100 employees is required to pay in an employment discrimination lawsuit. The judge ruled that these damages consisted of both compensatory damages to compensate Alvarado for the pain and anguish she suffered as a result of the discrimination, and punitive damages to punish Jani-King for its malicious or reckless indifference to Alvarado’s federal right to be free from employment discrimination.
The court also awarded significant injunctive relief against Jani-King. The judge ordered Jani-King, its owners, managers, successors, and all persons in active concert or participation with them to be enjoined from engaging in discrimination on the basis of sex or pregnancy. The judge further ordered Jani-King to institute, disseminate, and enforce a policy under which pregnant employees are permitted to work as long as they are able to and choose to do so.
Devika Seth, senior trial attorney with the EEOC’s Dallas office, said, “We hope this Judgment sends a message to employers that women who wish to continue working and are able to do so should not be penalized simply because they are expecting a child. We are so proud of Ms. Alvarado for coming forward and standing up for her right to work.”
“I lost my happiness when Jani-King told me they didn’t want me because I was pregnant,” said Alvarado. “The news of the judgment has brought hope back to me because I know now that there is support for pregnant women when their employer breaks the law.”
1st amendment: There you go again attacking my character. At some point in time, that should “grow old” on you. I’m sure that “guest” and/or “your attorneys” will contact you and clearly those with any common sense will realize that you have done and are doing more harm than good in your “case”.
No I don’t think cutting someone’s hours are funny if they are pregnant. My wife has been pregnant before and I never found it funny. When companies do things wrong, they should be punished, they should be held accountable and they should have to “pay” and/or conform.
Unfortunately, that is not your issue, your reason for failing, your lack of thought, your reason for filing suit is it?
To someone who calls himself jerry from Indiana ??
Who said that he is waching me and that he is going to come GET ME!
I see, so now you don’t find it funny? You only find it Funny when it hapens to people of other Races.
Your the one who brought it up and your true racist feelings came out.
I hope that one day you see that we are all humans and I hope that someday you stop looking at the color of peoples skin.
I hope that one day God enters your heart and that you stop being racist.
1st amendment: I understand that you are simple minded, I understand that you don’t understand things that most of us do. Let me break this down in a phrasing that even you can understand:
1. Not a racist or bigot. Never have been, never will be.
2. No, I do not like the fact we have so many illigal aliens in this country. Never have liked that fact, never will. illegal aliens are just that, here illegally. There is a proper process, there is a proper opportunity for people of all nations to come into this GREAT country of ours and they need to do it the proper way. Why should illegal aliens be allowed to come into this country and get the same if not GREATER benefits than those of us born here.
Those aren’t racist thoughts, those are practical thoughts and either have no place on this site. The reason the “parody” was used by me was simple: To show you and “guest” how STUPID you were making yourselves sound and what you were stating about people that for the most part YOU DIDN’T EVEN KNOW!!!!!!
Now if you can, Move on. If you can’t then I’m going to ignore your level of STUPIDITY and simply move on to the subjects and topics at hand. Final warning to you from me, you want reasonable engagement, want to “talk” things through, I’m your “huckleberry”, you want to continue attacking my personal character and question my beliefs, let me remind you, you are no Priest, Pastor, Rabbi or any other religious leader.
Open Forum: As stated on the other “site” of this post, I would like to “stop” the nonsense that is continually “spewing” from 1st amendment and “guest” and start “talking” about real issues and discuss real solutions to those issues. On the other site: I opened the conversation topic of “why are so many owner/operators unhappy” and included my thoughts and proposed suggestions for fixing the problem.
On this site: I would like to “converse” about the following: Why are owner/operators “failing” in their business endeavors in regards to the franchised purchased from “insert company name here”?
My thoughts: Part of the reason for failing is discussed on the other site, I truly believe that people have purchased a “commercial cleaning company” and believe that its somehow “glamerous work”. But one of the reasons for failing is as follows:
Training: Upfront and on-going system wide is “average at best”. I would even be more honest and state there are too many “poor at best” training programs both on the “corporate level” and most especially on the “master level”.
Changes to be made:
1. Though 1st amendment, “guest” and others will disagree, believe it or not the Policy and Procedures aspect of the manual is a good training tool and it has good information in regards to building the relationship with the customer. However, it is poor in the “step by step” approach that needs to be done in order to give the owner/operator the best chance and opportunity to be succesful.
a) I go back to the “quality” of the Operations Manger, is he/she an industry veteran, do they know/have they been in the commercial cleaning business for at least 5 years. If so, where and how did they learn. Are they good and patient “teachers”.
b) Are there DVD’s, Tapes, Manuals written and available for either purchase or at least “loan” to the prospective owner/operators for them to take home, have ,keep made by industry veterans and can explain cleaning properly, review how to “flow” the work, understand the importance of utilizing the proper chemicals, the proper way, understand the importance of the equipment being utilized. In my opinion, when you buy a package of at least a certain size, a package of DVD’s, tapes, manuals should come with it at no additional charge to the owner/operator.
c) There needs to be on-going training classes done at least on a quarterly basis. Those classes should include the following: 1. Floor and Carpet Cleaning (in all honesty, that’s where the “money” is in this industry) 2. General Cleaning and Restroom Cleaning 101 3. Business Management, Goal setting, Financial Tracking etc… 4. Customer relationship building, customer retention and “new sales” These classes should be offered and a minimal charge should be given to the owner/operator, nothing over $50.00 though.
d) Proper relationship developed between “master” and the “owner/operators”. Masters need to start treating their owner/operators as “investors”. When you treat someone as an “investor” you allow them to have a “say” in what is going right and wrong in your company. When you treat someone as an “investor” you handle them on a much different level than you do an employee, that level of respect needs to be done “both ways” though. Masters need to go through proper training as well. It doesn’t do anyone any good to have a “bad reputation” especially in “smaller communities”. Treat people with respect, treat them well, assist them whenever and however possible (within reason), put a good product in place, provide good service and you wil have a “winning organization”.
Let me know your thoughts.
1st amendment and Guest: Just need to do a “recap” on why you will lose your lawsuits against Jani-King and Jan-Pro:
1. FDD: Too hard to read, understand, only had 10 days to make up my mind, just had to get the 10K out of my pocket before I went out and purchased a used car!
Problem: FDD is written in English. Why? Guest, you should be able to answer this, but I will, because English is the only accepted language currently throughout the United States to be used in U.S. based companies (meaning doing business, there are other languages of course, but our legal system uses English as standard, go figure)
Do you know that most of the FDD is language prepared by the government, whether that be State or FTC or Federal? Go figure, wonder why its so difficult for most people to understand? The rest of it is “attorney approved”, “litigation avoiding” (that one not working so well) and then finally the “substance”.
2. They underbid all accounts: REALLY, well in a matter of one or two posts, I blew that one out of the water by giving detailed examples how “traditional companies” bid, how the “big 3″ bid and even how “mom and pops” and the other “whores” in the market known as the “national companies” bid.
3. They stole my underbid accounts: REALLY, well if you had bother reading, doing, implementing exactly what is in the Policy and Procedures aspect of your FDD you would have seen a step by step program to which you build a relationship with customer. It told you what to do after 1st cleaning, 1st week of cleaning, 1st month of cleaning and every month after that. I know you didn’t do that because you didn’t bother reading the FDD under your own words and statements.
4. They fined me for not calling them back in 2 hours or less: REALLY, well here’s my thought on that. a) Probably because the customer wanted an answer to a question/needed a problem handled immediately and you took “all day” to respond, might be the reason. b) Because you had complained, moaned, groaned, weren’ handling, hadn’t handled the customer properly in the past, they were using the fines to “get your attention”.
5. They never filled my package: REALLY, well here’s my thought on that. a) Because you had turned down accounts previously (which is your right to do so) they probably were having a hard time finding the “perfect” account for you, as I explained earlier, it is difficult and time consuming when you “show” accounts to prospective owner/operators. b) Because probably by this time, you had threatened, yelled, screamed, made a total “ass” out of yourself, no wonder they didn’t “fill your package”. No one likes to put up with people like that and because you had already turned down so many accounts to “contractual fulfill” your contract, they decided to “let it ride”.
6.They promised me $25.00 per hour: REALLY, wow, though we heard from someone earlier and never heard from him again, I’ll I stated was there was no way for anyone to earn $25.00 per hour unless they were doing specialty work like floors, carpets, windows etc…. or unless they were doing a group of $195.00 per month accounts that took less than 2 hours to clean and were only cleaned once per week. Do you have this $25.00 per hour promise in writing? NO.
In closing, for two years here and longer on other sites, you’ve shown the type of person you are, the lack of care you have, the disrespect that you continue to show others that “have a differing point of view”. I’m no attorney, (as you know because I’m a “master”, “paid operative to shadow you”, “corporate goon”, “goon from Jan-Pro’s law firm) but I think you’re going to lose and if your attorneys are preparing for “contingency plans” my guess is they think so to.
Open Forum: Why is it so important for you to ‘build your business” and “protect your busienss”
Well despite the “rants” and “ravs” of 1st amendment and “guest” let me “tell you a story”.
It costs a lot of money to “get” a customer. It costs a lot less money to “keep” a customer.
“Guest” who knows little to nothing of our business makes it sound like customers are like water, there are so many out there, you could never “run through them”. REALLY. Well let’s talk about that for a moment:
a) When a company gets a bad reputation for poor performance, it’s amazing how even in a larger city, the word “gets around”. In a smaller market, no doubt that you are finished. So performance is key. Quality is mandatory and one of the greatest selling points of the owner/operator system vs. “traditional companies” is the “vested interest” angle and the fact the consistancy in “people” begats conistancy in “quality of product”. For those in California, that means the longer the owner/operator stays in an account, the longer the “master” keeps that account.
At the end of the day, we are speaking about commercial cleaning, this is a “service based” “performance based” product we are all delivering. Do you know how much money it takes to “get an account”. Ok, let’s break it down:
1. Telemarketer calls on prospective customer to get an opportunity to “bid”. Telemarketer costs 9 to 10 per hour in direct wages (east coast), if they set the appointment, they get an additonal “bonus”, if the sales staff “closes” the account, they get an additional “bonus”.
2. Salesperson goes to the prospective customer, walks the facility, gets measurements, sees floor surfaces, gets a copy of current specifications or produces his/her own. Comes back to the office, produces a nice proposal full of colored charts, pretty pictures etc… Then calls the customer sets up another appointment to go back out there and deliver. Hopefully the customer signs, but if they don’t, which here’s a stat (less than 1/3 of all proposals delivered, presented, bid etc… are accepted by the customer and signed into “contract”)
So the salesperson gets paid some sort of salary or draw, if they are lucky and get the “contract” they get paid a commission.
3. Marketing Materials, there are a lot of materials used in mail outs, costs for running a “master based” website, costs associated with “corporates website”, costs associated with “corporates national account program”, costs associated with “corporates managment team”, costs associated with corporates existance in the terms of “royalty payments”.
4. Now all of what I described above goes into the “cost” of getting a new customer and remember, the “customer” 2/3 of the time walks away at time of proposal and choses another company.
Now, lets talk about “once you have the customer” and “keeping the customer”.
a) You have an operations manager drawing a salary and has a bonus structure built around “customer retentions”. Though I think it needs to be modified and possibly expanded, I would like to see a bonus structure for operations which includes “owner/operator retentions”. I think that is as important. If I keep my owner/operators happy, they are going to do a better job (in most cases) and they are going to keep the customer happy.(in most cases)
b) You have an admistrations person drawing a salary. That person keeps up with all of the soft and hard “paper trail”.
The two listed above are spread over literally 100′s of accounts and profit structures. What I described prior has one cost/profit structure only, and again is only succesful at maximum, 1/3 of the time.
Having said all of that, does it make sense to “churn customers”, NO!!!! why you say when you are “charging” for that same account over and over again.
1) In most cases, when it goes from one owner/operator to another, the other has “business owed” as well so there is little to no “percentage noted advantage”. b) It does tremendous harm to the customer unless it is warranted, remember, the “greates” selling point to a potential customer is “stability” of the owner/operator system vs. the constant turnover with “traditional companies” and their “employee” based system.
2) Too many changes in a short period of time (one year or less), pretty much guarantees customer won’t renew. At the end of the day, that’s the only way that the “master” can recoup their investment upfront is on the 2nd year.
So before you get all “emotional” and claim that the “masters” are making money hand over fist, let me give you some % information and lets all agree “everyone needs to make money, for if they don’t what’s the purpose of being in business”. Isn’t that why you wanted to become an owner/operator in the first place?
10% pretty standard “fee” for Operations, Managment, Oversite, Program Training
5% pretty standard “fee” for Administrative duties, billing, payment, tracking
4 to 5% for insurance “fee” for liability, workmans comp, bonding, vehicle etc..
Now let’s take a “smaller” master, one that’s doing 1million per year in “gross revenue” for it’s commercial cleaning or “contract services”. Approx. 85K per month in billing:
10% equals : $8500. per month out of that, they have to cover for Operations Manager, part of telemarketer (because in most cases, “master” will utilize telemarketer at least a few hours per week to make “customer service” phone calls as mandated both by the contract and with Jan-Pro International) and oh by the way, the “master” does deservice to get “some pay”, right?
5% equals: $4300. per month out of that, they have to cover for Administratvie person, office functions, rent, lights, water, building up keep, etc…
5% equals: $4300.00 per month for insurance related costs, administration of the insurance policies, financial documentation as it relates to insurance coverage etc….
So there it is in real figures, lets say that the master pays 36K per year for his Operations guy/gal. That translates into 3K per month just for the salary, but wait a second, he’s got car allowance or auto costs to pay on top of that, bonus structure as designed above, what about matching FICA, how about FUTA, SUTA, and other “fixed costs” All of a suddent that 3K has now turned into 4K plus per month!!
How about the % of telemarketer money, ok, it’s small, but it’s still something, let’s say with “everything” it’s 500.00 per month. Now $4500.00 of the $8500.00 is gone and we haven’t even covered “incidental or some money for the “master”.
Ok. Lets stop here for the p.m. and pick it up later………..
Folks:
How much would someone have to pay you to spend a summer weekend writing and posting more than 13,117 Words – 28 typewritten pages – on a commercial cleaning franchise blog?
That’s exactly what Jerry has done, starting before 6 am each morning.
Jerry, I really hope for your sake you are getting paid, and paid well, cuz that’s just downright disturbing.
Guest: Why are you so “bothered” with what I do with my time. Is it yours, did it cost you anything? What’s really “disturbing” is why do you care?
Funny, when someone starts to put forth some “positive” help in this industry, they are called names such as bigot, racist, convict, scam artist, thief, villified and scorned by the very people I question?
I mean we all know about 1st amendment, we know that he has a “vested interest” in the outcome of the lawsuits. Why didn’t you bother counting his “posting” numbers. Let’s see, I found “postings” from Jerry “v”, Iloveamerica, 1st amendment (by the way, those are all verified names for the same person) going back to 2008.
But what about you? What’s your interest? Who pays you to count my words? Why are you “monitoring” my words? Who are you?
But I promised, I wouldn’t spend too much time “bantering” with you and 1st amendment. That should be enough for now.
More to come………
Open Forum: I don’t want to spend much more time “justifying” the “masters” take home pay. But lets all agree, that you are somewhat “shocked” by what 1st amendment, “guest” and others have portrayed as the “money making machine” that these “masters” are not really. I haven’t even talked about the notes the master has to pay in regards to the original purchase of the territory, though I touched briefly on the royalty structure, the other “corporate” fee’s, there are still others.
Now that we’ve debunked the “myth” that “guest” and 1st amendment have been “spewing’ unchecked for years, let’s go onto to some “financial” issues for the owner/operator:
Small accounts are easy to “make money” on. In order to have a succesful business, you should have a mixture of larger and smaller accounts in your “program”.
Small accounts: Typically 175 to 195 per month in gross billing: After 20% you are in the 140 to 160 range in “gross net”. Now you have to factor in cleaning time. Most smaller accounts are 1 to 2 hours maximum cleaning time. In fact most are closer to the one hour. But you need to take that “gross net” figure and break it down to a “per clean” price structure. Again based upon your “gross net” you are looking at 30 to 40 dollars per clean.
You should be cleaning these accounts yourself. You take your equipment in/out of the facility with you, you should be able to clean multiples of these by yourself in one night, especially since most one time per week accounts are done with Friday or over the weekend in mind. You should “never” have employee’s cleaning these accounts unless they happen to be “next door” to an employee cleaned account. These are your “money makers”.
Medium sized accounts, let’s call these Tier 2: Tier 2 accounts are typically billing $500.00 per month to $900.00 per month. Those accounts range in cleaning days from 2 to 5 days. Now be smart about these, some of these you want to clean yourself as well. In most cases you can clean these accounts in one to two hours as well, it just means you are cleaning them more days per week than the others.
Larger sized accounts, lets call these Tier 1: Tier 1 accounts are typically billing at least $1000.00 per month and are almost always cleaned 4 to 5 times per week. These accounts, should be the ones you place employees in, if you are going to do so, it’s one location, its large enough to justify putting in equipment that stays on site and your worst case scenario is that you come and help your “employee” finish the account off each night or at least a couple of nights per week.
If you purchased a 2,000.00 per month package or less: Fill your package with a mix of Tier 3 (500 and less) and Tier 2 (500 to 900). Yes, there are advantages to cleaning one account at 2K per month, but usually, those have the lowest “actual profit” margin for owner/operators. Those accounts are typically good for the one’s that purchase the larger packages because they already are set on an “employee format”. Only time a smaller “owner/operator” should be on that format is if they simply don’t have the time nor desire to make more than just a couple of hundred per month and are simply treating their “package” as additional income.
More to come………
Jerry writes: “Funny, when someone starts to put forth some “positive” help in this industry, they are called names such as bigot, racist, convict, scam artist, thief, villified and scorned by the very people I question?”
No, Jerry, racism isn’t funny. And giving positive help doesn’t make you a racist, racist comments make you a racist:
Jerry writes: “You shuold be awake by now. Even in California it’s at least “taco time” isn’t it?”
The thing about racists is that they don’t even know when they are being racist. They think they’re funny making jokes about KKK rallies, taco-eaters not knowing English, etc. and they don’t even know it’s offensive. But because they’ve never been on the receiving end of discrimination in their Indiana corn fed caucasian worlds they have no idea how hateful their words come across.
Skip the lame attempts at comedy (“humer”) Jerry and stick to what you know, namely, justifying scam franchises with pages and pages of logical fallacies.
Guest: At least you admitted that the “parody” was at least “funny”. You’re not the only one. Now that was done to “change the subject” and to “clean up” the constant barrage of “trash, dark comments, attacks on bascially good people” that you and 1st amendment have been spewing for years!!!!! Let me remind you of what I believe was your first “appearance” here on this site in October 2009.
So anyone who has a “different view” must be a terrible person, must not have morals, must not have reasonable intelligence, must not have a “higher purpose”.
What you are describing is pure arrogance, a true distaste for all things good, basic understanding that you believe you know the answers to everything and what’s good for everyone.
So as I posted on the other site: We can now add “corn eaters” to the list of people you have disgust for. I already covered the state of Indiana and Oh wait a second, you don’t like White People either. Guess we are all ‘crackers” aren’t we?
But I digress…….. More to come
Open Forum:
Now that we’ve talked about the size of customers and the facts that you need to have a “mix” of those customers in your package, let’s talk about “type”.
You need to chose accounts that you feel comfortable handling as far as cleaning issues are concerned. Not everyone likes medical facilities, not everyone likes daycares. Find out which one you like best. You can do research on the type of account, go and speak to other owner/operators already doing those types of accounts and see if you can work with them on that type of account. Other resources are available on-line. Don’t simply rely on information provided by the “big 3″ there are plenty of resource guides, books to read, manuals to get, etc….
If you haven’t gotten anything but the following out of my “postings” get this message: DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!! This is a great industry, this is a great opportunity, this is something that if done correctly, you can make good money and get a positive return on your investment in a reasonable period of time despite what “guest’ and 1st amendment continue to “spew”.
More to come………
To Jerry from Indiana who said that he is an insider at jan-pro ???
You have got to be Kidding me, you posted 12 Times TODAY.
Today is SUNDAY !
Today is SUNDAY !
Did I mention that today is Sunday and you posted 12 times.
You posted from the Morning all the way till late at Night.
How much is jan-pro paying you $$$$$$ ???
Some of your post are very LONG. It’s obvious that you have a lot to loose when we go to trial.
You seem very, very DESPERATE. You are working so hard to do DAMAGE control.
Maybe if jan-pro stopped ripping of so many people they wouldn’t have to pay you to be on every day even on Sundays, or on 4th of July or on Fathers Day. You said that you are a father on another post but you spent fathers day posting here all day!
How much money is jan-pro paying you to come in here and post everyday, all day long $$$ ???
Jan-pro is going to give you one big paycheck $$$
You can read another article on how cleaning franchisors keep ripping off people. To read the whole article you can go to http://www.cmmonline.com
Franchises: Avoiding the scams
by: Michael McCagg, Managing Editor
Federal officials are vowing a crackdown on scam artists in the franchising industry.
“The janitorial sector is an area that sticks out. We get a number of complaints about unsavory business practices in it,” said Steve Toporoff, a spokesman for the federal agency.
Derrick Rill, deputy director of public relations for the agency, added that franchising schemes in the janitorial business have grown so troublesome that the agency will be targeting the public with a new educational campaign later this year.
Trouble lurking
Daniel said he recently met one franchise owner who paid $6,500 “to go into business” and, after several weeks, had received one contract that left no profit following supply purchases and franchisor fees.
1st amendment: Well at least you learned to “double post” the same garbage on all three sites at once. I’ll just move yours down and tell everyone to review my response over on the “jan-pro” site.
Of course, take your time, it will take Jerry and/or “guest” to show themselves again. If anyone has anything constructive to say, be more than happy to say it and answer any questions.
In the meantime,
More to come……..
Guest: Starting to put a “profile” together on who you really are: Here’s where I’m at:
1. Middle aged
2. From the Northeast, probably MA
3. I think your a man, just could be a manly woman though (Liz)
4. Attorney, works in a law firm, SEIU steward
5. White (though you insulted Southern and Midwestern Whites)
6. Democrat, Liberal, Progressive
7. Loves illegal aliens, probably has one cleaning his/her house
8. Superior intellect, at least in his/her mind
9. Doesn’t know the commercial cleaning business at all
10. Loves to “pick on” others, can’t stand to be “picked on”
Am I close?
More to come…………..
Why is it that jerry from indiana Is so scared of me posting articles that talk about how cleaning franchisors rippoff people??
Is it that he has alot to loose because he owns a master franchise ?
Is it because it’s the truth and he and his company jan-pro can’t handle the truth ?
You should also know that jerry who works for jan-pro wants you to buy a fake cleaning franchise with jan-pro but he won’t let his own Mother or anybody in his family buy one!
He gets so MAD when I post parts of articles and post the links to them. Well I dont care how much he Cries I will keep posting them because I don’t want more people to get ripped-off. Here is the article that jerry who owns a Master cleaning franchise doesn’t want anybody to read.
Taking off the Gloves
I’m posting part of the article here. You can read the whole article by going to the following website.
http://www.franchisetimes.com/content/story_result.php?article=01374
[Duplicate content deleted - ADMIN]
1st amendment: Only one that’s going to be “crying” soon is you. Did you ever get “guest” to agree to pay for your judgement when Jan-Pro wins and you have to pay for their attorney fees and filing and court fees such as the one’s in the “aiwah” case had to with Coverall? Should get that in writing sooner than later.
Right now, he’s still in “la la land” and thinks you have a shot at winning.
I’ve gone over so many times how you are going to lose, why you are going to lose, what documentation that Jan-Pro has to verify what I’m saying about your “issue” so you’ll lose, how many more times do you have to hear it.
Maybe you should go back to your other sites and “post” your dribbles and drabs so you can have an audience that doesn’t tell you the “bad things”.
One thing I can guarantee, you’ll still be trying to convince everyone that you “won” though it will be documented that you lost, because you will say that the “system cheated you”!
Did you ever answer any of my questions?
a) Do you do your own taxes
b) Why didn’t you take your time and read the FDD
c) If the FDD was that difficult, why didn’t you hire an attorney
d) Why didn’t you wait another year or so to buy
e) Why didnt’t you do your due dilligence
f) Why didnt you contact the owner/operators listed in the FDD
g) Why didn’t you check out other companies like Jani-King, Coverall, Bonus
h) Why didn’t you follow Policy and Procedures in regards to customer service
i) Why didn’t you call your customer back when they left you a message
j) Why didn’t you call the regional office one full day after message was left by them
k) Why didn’t you keep a copy of the email given to you by Jan-Pro in regards to the customer requesting your removal
l) Why haven’t you shown your attorneys any/all of the above questions
m) Why are you still “lying” about nearly everything that you stated happened to you when you know full well that it didn’t.
n) Why do you blame others for things that were clearly your fault
o) Why do you have a “god” complex
p) Why can’t you admit that you are a liar
q) Why can’t you admit that you are corrupt
r) Why can’t you learn to “cut and paste” the entire article vs. leaving out the dates
s) Why haven’t you learned that there are 50 states in the U.S. currently
t) Why can’t you understand that I’m not with Jan-Pro in any capacity
u) Why can’t you admit that “guest” is an attorney
v) Why cant you admit that you dont like anyone that disagrees with you
w) Why cant you admit that Jan-Pro didn’t do anything “wrong” to you
x) Why cant you admit that you are going to lose
y) Why cant you admit that you spent more time “posting” than you did servicing your customer
z) When will you admit that you’ve lost
Well as we can see jan-pro and jerry from indiana who owns a master franchise are verry desperate to do Damage control.
He is know to the point were he doesnt know what to say or do. His abc rambilings are more LIES and it shows there Desperation.
Facts
1. Jan-pro has taken peoples accounts for no reason. They will tell people that the customer isn’t happy with there work and that they have to turn in the keys. Then when the cleaner goes back to talk to the customer the customer is VERY SURPRISED that they removed them from there account. The customer was very happy with the cleaners service. jan-pro has just stolen an account. That is THEFT! This has been hapening for years all over the country. This also falls under the violation of the Rico and Racketeering Acts. Like a Judge said it’s a modified Ponsi Scheme! It’s a Racket !
2. There accounts are way underbid to the point that some pay less than minimum wage. They underbid accounts so low that many people make less than minimum wage. When they take accounts from other real cleaning companies who pay there employees right and pay for workers compensation and follow the rules they out bid them for less than 60% Now the person who bought this fake cleaning franchise gets ripped-off, the Mom and Pops business gets ripped-off they also have to lay of there worker who now has to collect unemployment. jan-pro doesnt go by the rules of cleaning companies because they dont pay workers compensation or follow the rules that real cleaning comapanies have to. Basicaly everybody looses when jan-pro underbids accounts. They dont care because they dont do the work.
3. The FTC Federal Trade Commision and Attorney General WARN people to be verry carefull from these cleaning franchisors. There has been hundreds of complaints against these cleaning franchisors and they have been exposed on Television, Newspapers and Magazines.
Save your money and stay away from jan-pro
1st amendment: Funny, every time I talk about YOUR situation, you want to “deflect” and go onto a “third party”. I would think the judge and jury really only want to hear from you about your personal experience, not a “third party view”. Maybe your attorney’s and/or “guest” should prepare you better. There’s a legal term Im thinking of, HERESAY!!! that’s it, you need to speak more on your issue and not “HERESAY”.
Facts which are not in dispute in regards to “your situation”.
1. You didn’t bother checking out, reading, verifying, seek counsel on the FDD, yet you turned over 10K to Jan-Pro Master in California.
2. You were given opportunity for accounts, some of which you accepted on your own free will, others you rejected on your own free will.
3. You didn’t bother building a proper relationship with “your customer” as directed, suggested, implied in the Policy and Procedures Guidelines.
4. After not returning phone calls from the customer, from the regional office you were fined $50.00 after receiving the fine, you went “ballistic”.
5. After multiple cleaning issues as well as a personal conflict with the customer, said customer asked for your removal from their facility and put it into writing. That customer has the right to do so under any of the Jan-Pro, Coverall, Jani-King contracts and they had “just cause” in your particular situation.
6. After attempt to get the keys back from “your building” because of the “customer requested removal of you”, you went “ballistic”, you were then told if keys were not returned before the end of business, you would be subject to the $500.00 fine and possible additional charges for the need to “rekey” the facility.
All of numbers 1 through 6 are FACTS in regards to your particular situation.
In regards to the FTC, it is amazing with all the “stuff” in the FDD that the FTC mandates be put in there, that they still want more. Ok, that’s life, that’s what’s done. I have no problem with that at all, I have said all along, DONT BELIEVE ANYTHING I SAY and most assuridly DONT BELIEVE ANYTHING 1st amendment or “guest” says, check it out for yourself, you don’t like something, don’t sign, you don’t like the “master” and/or his/her employee’s don’t sign, you don’t think this is the right way for you to get into the commercial cleaning business, don’t sign.
The a-z stuff listed above was just another example of how many questions, how many “half truth’s”, how many LIES, you have chosen to be associated with. That’s all, a little humor for our readers.
1st amendment and “guest”: Don’t look now, but soon there will be a “tide changing” event in regards to the MA law regarding independent contractor situation. Believe it will “end” the majority of this nonsense and will allow “true reform” to happen in the industry as should have been the case all along.
By the way, could you spend a little more time “pestering” Webster. There’s where the change will come from in regards to Jan-Pro.
1st amendment, have all of your illegal alien friends call them, send them videos, write them letters. Oh, wait a minute, maybe “guest” should do all of that for you and I’m sure with his SEIU connections, should be able to have a “sweat shop” in India handle on a massive scale.
HOLLER, if you love this COUNTRY!!!!!!!
To jerry the racist jan-pro master franchisor
Yes we hope changes do become reality. I dont think that the Senator from Massachusetts is going to be very happy with jan-pro. Hopefully him and the Attorney General come after all of you scamers. Maybe the Senator from Massachusetts will not be verry happy when he sees that cleaning ranchisors are ripping off Veterans!
Now you want me to call Webster the new owners of jan-pro. Should I also call your Mom? So you want to play games. Everybody just points the finger at everybody else. I see the games you all play. Meanwhile families, Veterans and single Moms are getting ripped-off. Your games only hurt people.
When I saw that I was getting ripped-off I talked to management and they didnt care they just tookmy money. They wouldnt gime the master franchisors phone number I had to search for it myself. I called corporate and they said =
“WE CAN’T HELP YOU!”
Then whenI finally talked to the master franchisor he treated me like crap and told me that if I didn’t like it that I should get out! Yes they gave me the FINGER!
Basically they play games with you and rip-you -off!
The coverall case in Massachusetts was a Test case. only 3 plaintiffs were used. The Judge already Ruled that all of the Coverall people are infact employees. This is according to the LAW. This is the LAW. A 3 Pong test was used to determine if the cleaners were employees and according to the LAW and the 3 Pong test they are employees. On a later date they will be going back to court to access all of the Damages. This same Judge compared the way coverall was doing business as a Modified Ponsi Scheme!
Coverall recently started making there cleaners use time cards.
The Judge also stated that he may certify the case as a national class action challenging Coverall’s Unfair and Deceptive business practices Nationwide.
Also Rhina alveranga who bought a fake cleaning franchise with coverall was able to prove that she was an employee and not a franchisee. She recouped her loses, investment and also received unemployment benefits.
In the Jani-King case, they have obtained class certification on the claim that franchisees who have worked in Massachusetts were misclassified as independent contractors.
In the jan-pro case we are awaiting for the Judges decision for cross parties summary Judgment and for Class certification.
Jan-pro Lost a lawsuit in Rhode Island. I also know of many other Lawsuits that they have settled out of court.
If you look at the Climaco Guzman V. jan-pro case you will see that jan-pro LIES. They never gave him any accounts so Climaco Guzman had to take legal action. The Judge found jan-pro Guilty!
The Judge said that jan-pros promises were FALSE and MISSLEADING! The Judge also said that jan-pro had BREACHED the contract and committed FRAUD !
1st amendment: Now here you go again playing the “race card”. I want you to know for the record, I’m as white, brown, red, white and blue as YOU!!!!
Now, you know you’re a little over matched right? You understand that YOU, can’t go to court, that YOU can’t take the witness stand, that YOU can’t be the face of the case anymore. Right? I know “guest” hasn’t broken the news to you, but I needed to.
In closing, I’m sorry they gave you the Finger, that is rude and unprofessional and you have every right to be upset. I’m sure as you have shown your masterful control of your Anger issues, that you were respectful, thoughtful, didn’t raise your voice and didn’t have any “monkey dung” in your hands.
HOLLER!!!! If you want all illegal aliens to go home or at least PAY TAXES!!!!
To jerry the Franchisor for jan-pro.
I will keep repeating it. The case in Massachusetts is still on going however the plaintiffs already proved that they were employees. They used the LAW to prove this. They used a 3 Prong Test which is what the LAW requires them to use. This was proven and they will be going back to court to recoup there losses.
http://www.thestar.com/videozone/238248–countrywide-victim-arteaga
To jerry a master franchisor with jan-pro
You are trully one sick person
You look at people and if you don’t like the way they look you call them illegal aliens. The ladies who came out on those video are not illegal aliens they are American citizens and some of them have kids in the Millitary. For you to call people illegal aliens just because they look diferent than you is wrong.
How can you defend what you Posted on July 10th 2010 at 1:52 pm on the janiking section complaints.
The following is what jerry from indiana posted on July 10th 2010 at 1:52 pm in the janiking section of complaints
“““ You shuold be awake by now. Even in California it’s at least “taco time” isn’t it?
As my “master” took his yaht out today, I was forced to go into the basement and feed/water all of the illegal aliens we are “training” to become the next batch of owner/operators
Now to show that I’m not as mean the “master”, one of our illegal aliens gave birth last night despite our best efforts to have her wait at least ten (10) days, she gave birth to a beautiful baby girl. To show that I’m not without feeling, I immediately explained to the illegal alien, that “wet foot, dry foot” didn’t apply to her as she was coming into the world. I then took the mother, sold her a starter kit at 5X the cost of the products and equipment given to her, forced her to take a tremedously underbid account, called the customer and told them I was putting an illegal alien into their facility,
What you ask about the baby? Well the “master” and I have decided to “sell” the baby to the highest bidder and pocket the money. We wil make a large donation/gift in the baby’s name to the owners of Franchise Times, Frannet, Vetnet and any other “net” willing to name us in the top “5″ of their franchise list. ”””
1st amendment: Hope I’m finally getting through to you. You come across as a JOKE. You cannot, should not be the FACE of your CASE. You lack a certain quality, DIGNITY! You can’t handle criticism, you can’t handle anything or anyone that disagrees with you in any type of tone. You are a continued detriment to your CASE and to the message that your attorneys are trying to convey.
Now I’m sorry you don’t like the fact that I don’t like illegal aliens in this country. I’m tired of supporting them and their families with my hard earned, paid on time tax dollars. I’m tired of them getting free medical care when I have to pay dearly for mine, I’m tired of them getting free or nearly free housing when I have to pay dearly for mine, I’m tired of them overcrowding our jails and what I would consider REAL criminals getting to “walk away” on bond, I tired of them “sucking” this country dry in some many ways it’s not funny.
There is a legal process that ALL immigrants must follow in order to get into this GREAT Country of ours. What’s mandatory for some, must be mandatory for all. Now having said all of that, I’m not for nor am I even coming close to JUSTIFYING that illegal aliens should be taken advantage of, harmed or anything like that. But come on, unless you are an illegal yourself, you should feel the same way. The same Rights you are exercising by filing suit against Jan-Pro are the same Rights that I’m talking about. FOUNDERS WRITTEN but GOD GIVEN!!!!!
To jerry a master franchisor with jan-pro
I guees that the truth is coming out, all you do is look at people and you label them. That is wrong. If you see that someone looks different from you, you attack them. For your information this country is made up of people from all over the world. We are here talking about how jan-pro has been ripping of people and what do you do when you are loosing your argument. You let out your deragatory and racist views.
Two years ago if you saw one of the supreme court justices walking down the street would you also call her deragatory names? Would you also call her an illegal alien just because she looks latina?
You know that what you said is wrong. For you to be labeling everyone that works for jan-pro as an illegal alien is very WROING!
For your information 30% of the people that have called me are white, 30% Black, 30% latino, 5% Asian and 5% european.
I guess if you can’t win an argument you turn to deragatory remarks and you label everyone that bought a fake franchise with jan-pro illegal. You can try and explain your comments to the Supreme Court.
1st amendment: What you have done is completed a “racial profile”. Which I thought you had a strong distaste of. Now how many or what % of the Hispanics are actual U.S or Legal Resident Aliens. Did you go ahead and ask that question the next time you do your “poll”.
I hate to keep repeating myself and giving advice to you and your attorney’s but REALLY, you want to blame Jan-Pro for all of “mankinds” ills, issues, problems, saying that they are going to destroy tens of thousands of lives if allowed to continue to operate. WOW!!! I’m in line for whatever you’ve been smokin today!!!
If Jani-King is so bad, why do they win awards and get ranked #1?
Here’s why: the awards and rankings are bogus and paid for by ad dollars (imho)
Commercial cleaning franchises like Jan-Pro spend millions of dollars advertising with Entrepreneur magazine. In exchange (IMHO), Entrepreneur gives them these meaningless rankings that they can use to peddle their bogus opportunities on the unsuspecting. More than half of their “top 10 low cost franchises” are commercial cleaning franchises. Every one of these franchisors tout their rankings like they are an indication that they are endorsed as a good investment.
# 2 Jani-King
# 3 Jan-Pro Franchising Int’l. Inc.
# 5 Stratus Building Solutions
# 8 Vanguard Cleaning Systems
# 9 ServiceMaster Clean
# 10 Bonus Building Care
# 12 Anago Cleaning Systems
# 14 System4
# 21 CleanNet USA Inc.
# 30 OpenWorks
# 36 BuildingStars Inc.
# 48 OctoClean Franchising Systems
# 53 Mint Condition Franchising Inc.
# 68 Office Pride Commercial Cleaning
# 75 MTOclean Inc.
Here’s the truth: the rankings have little-to-nothing to do with the viability of the franchise investment. According to Entrepreneur “We do not measure subjective elements such as franchisee satisfaction or management style”
How can they evaluate a franchise opportunity without considering whether franchisees are screaming bloody murder or not?
Or the profitability of franchisees?
Or if the management is unethical or dishonest?
Or if the FTC has singled out this segment for scam warnings?
Or that there are widespread lawsuits and allegations of deception?
They claim they consider litigation and terminations in their “super secret ranking formula” but if those factors were given any weight janitorial franchises certainly would not top the list.
According to Entrepreneur, “The most important factors include financial strength and stability, growth rate and size of the system.”
So in essence there’s a multimillion dollar disinformation campaign wherein business publications pretend that the fact that the franchisors making money is the same as the franchisees making money. Only the lawsuits and sites like this one provide an opportunity to expose this blatant scam on the American working men and women in pursuit of their American dreams.
Of course they need to be able to make their own informed decisions, but to do that they need to be provided with true information, not multimillion dollar campaigns designed to obscure the truth and hide reality.
Guest: More of your “noise” white, black, illegal alien or otherwise. It’s still noise. I find it funny how between you and 1st amendment, everyone associated with these companies are “corrupt”, “liers” “thieves” “on the take”, “unaware”, “stupid”, “don’t understand English”, “don’t understand Spanish”, “clueless”, “without morals”, “morally corrupt”, “on the take” etc….
But it’s really funny when you throw all those “stones” yet there are still people lining up daily at the “big 3″. Some of them with their attorneys present, some of them with their accountants blessing, some of them with the encouragement of their family members already in the “system”, some of them reading and understanding every word in the FDD, some of them reading and acting upon everything in the Policy and Procedures, Nearly all of them making money in Year 1, Nearly all of them making it to Year 3 or greater, Nearly all of them Happy and Quite satisifed with what they are getting as far as support, ability to grow, making the “American Dream” happen for them.
Yet, you and 1st amendment want to “label” everyone else, except for yourself and 1st amendment. Your so “scared, stupid, uneducated, unengaged”, that you can’t even be honest with the “viewers” as to WHO YOU ARE!!!
1st amendment, doesn’t want to admit other than the fact he didn’t read the FDD, gave 10K to someone that he claims told him he’d make $25.00 per hour, didn’t bother reading or abiding by the Policy and Procedures, didn’t service his customer properly, didn’t return phone calls, didn’t return to the office and his REALLY BIG CLAIM IS “they gave me the finger!!”. Of course, he wants us to believe that he didn’t deserve “getting the finger” because of his perfectly handled self right here on this site, where he has called everyone names, attacked their character, attacked anything and everything they’ve said IF IN DISAGREEMENT with him.
So really, WHO’S Spewing nothing but NOISE?
When Julie Bennett called 17 Jani-King unit franchisees listed in the FDD as “active,” she could only find 1 who was still actively in business.
That means fewer than 6% of those Jani-King said were active were still in business. Maybe the 94% didn’t read the FDD, but what does it matter? They are gone, and so is their savings. Anyone thinking about these franchises should consider those odds.
When Franchise Times called 39 Jan-Pro franchisees:
3 were still active
11 never returned messages
10 phone numbers had been disconnected or reassigned
7 never answered the phone
4 spoke only Spanish
4 said they’d left the franchise “because they never made any money”
Jerry would contend that the 92% of Jan-Pro franchisees FT determined were MIA probably didn’t read their FDDs and are undeserving of sympathy or compassion. Maybe so. But what do you call an opportunity sold using bogus franchise counts where 90+% will end up MIA? Does the term scam come to mind?
So when Jerry touts all the active franchisees out there, remember that Franchise Times found that only 7.7% (3 out of 39) of supposed Jan-Pro franchisees actually exist. The number for Jani-King was even less (5.8%).
Guest: No, what has probably happened and what I suggested, but you already know, but why give out any “truth”.
1st: A lot of times, cellphones are the primary “choice”of the owner/operator, they change numbers, more than you change your underwear.
2nd: As you know, most states only require “master” to update the list once per year when it is time “update or refile” with the state.
3rd: Some states don’t require you to “update” at all.
Those are FACTS, not the garbage that you and 1st amendment would have you believe. If any one had bothered to “check” with the regional office, I’m sure that they would have provided updated information without question. But no, that’s not the case and you know it.
92% of the Jan-Pro franchisees listed in the FDD (The document Jerry insists is SO critical to read) were no longer reachable and their business lines were dead or nonresponsive.
Jerry’s explanation? They must change business numbers a lot!
Ha! Ha! Ha! Right! Good one, Jerr-bear! Wait… he’s serious?
But while that contention is so ludicrous it seems laughable, it must be true! How can you be sure? Because Jerry SAYS “Those are FACTS”! Must be true!
Just like Jerry says it’s a FACT that there are thirty (30) thousand diligent franchise worker bees cleaning the offices of THIS GREAT COUNTRY every night. But if Julie Bennett’s (one of the most respected writers in franchising) numbers are right, there are really only 2,310 – and that’s being generous. Because 92% of Jerry’s Janitorial Army don’t exist… anymore.
Where are they? Probably in the welfare state Jerry loves so much… especially since they couldn’t get unemployment like other laid off employees.
Guest: Julie Bennett “one of the most respected writers in this country”: REALLY? wow, let’s see a show of hands for all of those that have ever heard of her. Wait a minute, “guest and 1st amendment” you don’t count. My God, you make her sound like she’s won some sort of award for journalism. Maybe TELEMUNDO one of the most respected television broadcasters in this country could do an expose on Julie Bennett.
Funny, in her article, she makes it sound like if they didn’t answer by the third ring they weren’t in business any more. Did she leave a voice mail, did she try calling more than once, did she ask the regional offices for an updated list, what year was the list that she had, how about FACTS.
So “guest” would have you believe that any “spewing” that he and 1st amendment does is full of “FACTS”. Yet, when others who actually know what they are talking about, those issues are “slid under the rug” and an attempt to “blind the truth” with nonsense is the chosen path of the day.
Here’s something for thought, I can call 200 people at random, depending on time of day I call them, depending on how many times I let the phone ring, depending on whether I decide to leave a voice message with a return number or not, I can make or “skew” my numbers any way I chose to make them come out.
If I call “guest” and all of his “friends” on the Progressive Left. I bet I can get President Obama’s “approval rating” above 50%. However, if I call people pretty much anywhere else in the country, I would be hard pressed to get President Obama’s rating above 30%. But if I “sample’ the two, I can get his current rating of “42%”.
Again, blinded by FACTS will win every time. Let’s all wait with “baited breath” as “guest and/or 1st amendment” attempt to “skew and spew” this one.
Jerry:
Hmmm… trained journalists seeking franchisees for interviews can’t reach 92% of those listed as active in the FDD, and Jerry logically deduces they must change phone numbers daily! Of course, cuz real business owners don’t answer their business phones or forward them when changing numbers?
Or maybe they were out on their yachts!
Or at the Ferrari dealership!
Or being tied up by the Swedish Bikini Team!
Or maybe they don’t get cell phone reception in their vast wine cellars!
Maybe they were flying their little ladies to Paris in their private jets for romantic weekends!
I guess reading the FDD isn’t all that valuable, according to Jerry, since the info is all outdated and the contact info useless.
FYI people who actually read business publications like the Wall Street Journal, BusinessWeek, Forbes, Franchise Times, USA Today have all heard of Julie Bennett. Maybe she’ll publish in Janitorial Scammer Monthly so you’ll have heard of her, too.
Guest: Oh there you go again, making so much “funny”. As you know again, (maybe you don’t) the FDD is multiple pages, approx. 1/3 is dedicated to mandatory filings given by the FTC, approx. 1/3 is attorneys being attorneys and states being states, the final 1/3 actually is the only part that I find helps owner/operators on a consistent basis.
No, as stated before, most states only require FDD updating once per year, there are several states, that you don’t have to update unless FTC, State information changes. Hence, common sense dictates, that unless it was a reasonably close time period, numbers listed may not work.
Of course her award winning journalism is defined by “the same rags” that you claim know so much about everyhting, except for the “truth”. Now what I also said was, you can “skew” a poll any way you want, depending on the “factors” as described earlier.
We already know from 1st amendments personal experience that owner/operators don’t answer their phones especially when they know it potentially could be “bad news”, happen to be working their “other job” or a variety of reasons such as they believe it could be ICE searching for them.
It is amazing, how little you know about not only the commercial cleaning industry, but in particular about the “owner/operator system”. Of course, I need to remember that your greates claim to knowledge is “1st amendment” champion of the LESS THAN ONE YEAR WONDERS!!!!!!
To jerry who is working for the cleaning franchisors
Its a fact that janiking has many , many lawsuits.
If you check the Federal Trade comission they warn you about buying a franchise with them.
There is hundreds of complaints in England and the United states.
They have so many Lawsuits that it would take thousands and thousands of pages top list them all.
1st amendment: There you go again, “spewing’ there are not hundreds of lawsuits against Jani-King. Most of the ones filed in Minnesota were dismissed for a variety of reasons. You make it sound like there are thousands of unhappy/disgruntled “owner/operators” that simply isn’t true.
FTC warns against buying any “franchise” without proper due dilligence, without checking out facts, without checking with all information possible. Please show me where the FTC has stated ‘NOT TO BUY A JANI-KING FRANCHISE” and I’ll shut up and leave this site for good.
You can’t, you won’t be able to. Those are the FACTS and they are without dispute.
To jerry a master franchisor
Hey I guees your on janikings paytoll to. How much is janiking paying you $$$
Did they pay you for that vacation you took last week?
There is many lawsuits againts janiking, there is hundreds of complaints against janiking in the USA and England.
Thise are the Facts.
1st amendment: “guest’ gets to talk to me about “spelling’. What’s the matter “guest” a little “two faced” as usual. You lose credibility, not that you had much to begin with, but I’m trying to help you out with the viewers. At the end of the day, they are the only one’s making decisions to believe or disbelieve. You, I and 1st amendment are already in our respective “camps”. Nothing I say to you, you say to me or anything 1st amendment says to anyone, makes a difference in our positions.
1st amendment, prove that there are 100′s of lawsuits against Jani-King. Remember in order to be 100′s there must be at least 200.
So let’s see who comes up with the “facts”. Now, I’ll use the article that Julie Bennett the “purlitzer prize winner”, “nobel prize winner”, “golden globe winner”, “emmy winner”, What? she didn’t when any of those. Wow, she must not be too good then, they hand out prizes for writing like 1st amendment hands out “monkey dung” on a daily basis.
Let’s get TELEMUNDO and their investigative reporter, who can manage to find the Jan-Pro office but couldn’t find an illegal alien on a hot summers day at the Tequilla Bar.
If you have been ripped-off by a cleaning franchisor you can file a complaint with the following Goverment agencies.
Federal Trade Commision
http://www.Ftc.Gov
The US Attorney General
http://www.justice.gov/ag/
You can also join one of the many class action lawsuits
1st amendment: What’s the matter, if you had bothered to read or understand the FDD, the information you are posting on this and every website is actually already in there.
So you must think everyone is as STUPID as you are. Believe it or not, most people actually read the FDD before handing over any money at all. Most people actually read the Policy and Procedures aspect before they hand over any money, Most people actually call the other owner/operators listed in the FDD before they hand over any money, Most people not only wait the mandatory time of 10 business days, but they usually take month’s from the time the presentation is given and they actually sign.
WOW! That’s called due dilligence, that’s called FREEDOM of CHOICE, that’s called making up your own mind.
Jerry says “Most people actually call the other owner/operators listed in the FDD before they hand over any money”
Really? Jerry just got finished stating that the contacts in the FDD are unreachable because they change phone #s more than some change underwear, that the FDD is only updated yearly for some states and not for others. Now he states everyone calls these owners.
Which is it, Jerr-Bear? Jerry flip-flops more than them liberal candidates he loves so much.
Out of 17 Jani-King franchisees from the FDD called, only one was still in business. Out of 39 Jan-Pro franchisees from the FDD called, only 3 were still in business and one of those wanted out.
Guest: No flip flopping, as stated before, Julie is “skewing” her results, I cannot believe that she left messages, can’t believe that she tried calling more than once, can’t believe she called the “master” and asked for an updated list.
Problem with you and Julie is that someone is pointing out that “stuff happens” and that “stuff” in this case, is the “skewing of the results”. I can and only will speak about “my master” and the facts associated with a few others that I personally know of. Though mine ran his poorly, in many ways was an “idiot”, he did do some things correctly.
One of those things was constantly updating his “contact information”. He did so on a regular basis. I can also speak aobut what he did in regards to Insurance, which of course was an earlier dispute, I can also speak about his and others file cabinet full of “bids” not gotten and therefore that assists in proving that “underbidding” is not rampant throughout the system as well as comments made from “outsiders” that agreed that ABM and “Mom and Pops” were the real “whores” of the marketplace.
What I find funny is on one site, you think I’m a detriment to “franchisors” yet on another you attack me on a point by point basis.
Funny, if I were a “detriment” you would simply let me “spew” and “spew” without input. So maybe, because on multiple points now, others are chiming in.
Let’s recap for a second: The “lead plantiff in the national class action suit against Jan-Pro has openly admitted the following:
a) Didn’t bother reading the FDD
b) Had more than 10 days to make up his mind to sign or not
c) Didn’t bother reading the Policy and Procedures part of the agreement
d) Didn’t bother servicing his customer properly
e) Didn’t bother returning phone calls
f) Was fined, therefore warned that his account was in jeopardy.
g) Got a copy of the email stating the customers dissatisfaction of service and his removal requested.
h) Was threatened when he refused to turn the keys in on a timely basis
i) Was vulgar, unprofessional in his handlings/dealings with regional office
j) Has Lied repeatidly on this site and others about the following issues:
1) Underbidding of accounts, proved without too much effort , that is not the case
2) Was not allowed to get Insurance on his own and if he did, he stated “he would have been fined $50.00 per day. which has been disproven by me and others.
3) Was not given or offered his full accounts per his package bought. Fulfillment letter was sent to him listing all of the accounts he had and when the were offered, declined/accepted.
4) Finally, had not run or operated his business in the “jan-pro” way as outlined in Policy and Procedures.
Could it be, that your boy “1st amendment, Jerry”v”, Iloveamerica” and “the lead plantiff in the battle for mankind against Jan-Pro in the National Class Action Lawsuit” might be a liability for the case?
Could it be that “aiwah” after having been “classified” as a “test case” by all of those “hollier than though” attorneys of his and being stuck with a 200K judgement is having issues with the TRUTH and REALITY of the stiuation.
Let the viewers an others BEWARE, “anon” and “guest” don’t care who they hurt, how much someone has to pay, what garbage is “spewed” as long as they and the people that support them WIN at ALL COSTS!!!!
To jerry who said that he is a jan-pro insider, what ever that means?
Again the Facts come out and you scream like a mad little monkey. Basicaly there is so many articles that tell the truth about the cleaning franchisors and you get verry upset when they report the truth.
There is hundreds of lawsuits. There is hundreds of complaints from all over the world. People in Canada, England, USA and other countries are all complaining on how they have been ripped-off by cleaning franchisors.
When the Federal Trade Commision WARNS people about buying a cleaning franchise you know that there is something very seriously wrong!
When the Attorney general from Maryland WARNS that you should look out and be very careful about buying a cleaning franchise you know that there is something very WRONG!
When there is other Goverment agencies investigating these cleaning franchisors you know that there is something teribly very WRONG!
I have great respect for the 46.9 million Hispanic Americans. They are hard working, family oriented people with deep religious and cultural values. People of Hispanic origin the nation’s largest ethnic or race minority, and the fastest growing.
Whether bigots like Jerry like it or not, more than 1 of every two people added to the nation’s population is Hispanic. By July 1, 2050, There will be 132.8 Hispanic Americans in the US, constituting 30% of the nation’s population.
Sorry, Jerry, but bigots are the new minority. You can try to dress up your racist remarks as patriotic immigration nonsense, but we can see through your disgraceful and hurtful remarks. I really don’t think this kind of racism should be tolerated in the 21st century. It’s disgraceful and un-American.
Jerry writes “Even in California it’s at least “taco time” isn’t it?”
Jerry writes “TELEMUNDO and their investigative reporter… couldn’t find an illegal alien on a hot summers day at the Tequilla Bar.”
Jerry writes “make sure you call Telemundo and remind them of all the illegal aliens you have living in your house”
Jerry writes “I was forced to go into the basement and feed/water all of the illegal aliens we are ‘training’ to become the next batch of owner/operators”
I’m sure all the Hispanic Americans doing their due diligence really appreciate your comments. You’re as enlightened as a burning cross, Jerry.
Guest: As stated on the other site, you can label me all you want, you can call people “racist”, “bigot” and other names. At the end of the day, a true man of character doesn’t let “tags” define who he is.
I’ll be able to look at myself in the mirror every day. Question is, can you? What lies have you told, what mis-statements have you made, what path have you gone down? Just wondering. So you expect everyone to believe what you say 100% of the time without verification, without “due dilligence”, without independent thought. REALLY! Isn’t that what Karl Marx used to say and think, isn’t that what Stalin, Lenin, Sadam, used to think. Isn’t that what HUGO CHAVEZ is basically saying to the people of Venezuela? Are you really that comfortable making decisions for EVERYONE? Are you really that arrogant?
Jerry:
The taxpayers of America would like you to repay us the money we spent on your public school education, which you obviously slept through.
Perhaps someone can direct you to a map of North “America” Note that there are two other countries on it in addition to the U.S.. You see, little Jerr, residents of a country called Mexico are “Americans” too. So are Canadians, out neighbors to the North.
If you study hard, some day I’ll tell you about Central “America” and even South “America”
But I think that’s enough book lernin’ for you for one day, Jerr-bear! We don’t want your little brainy wainy to have a boo-boo!
Guest: Noticed how you “drove by” the earlier comments about your “upbringing”. Problem with you and I is that we are from two different “worlds”.
I made my “bones” in an industry where cleaning toilets, mopping floors, stripping floors, bonnet cleaning carpets, washing windows etc… is how you make your money. Work hard, do a good job, get paid a fair amount of money.
You’ve made your “bones” by attacking people, attacking people that work hard for a living, you want to make “examples” as to why people like 1st amendment should be given the same money, the same “bones” as someone like me, like Joe A. like others that have posted on this site. Biggest difference between them and him: They worked for it, they worked hard for it, they fought for it, they went through adversity and they made it.
What did 1st amendment do:
1. Didn’t Read, Didn’t Listen, Didn’t Do, Didn’t Value, Didn’t Service and Didn’t Serve. Therefore, he doesn’t deserve to reap the rewards just because he SHOWED UP!!!!! I know in your world, SHOWING UP is all that is required. In my world, SHOWING UP is just the begininning.
2. Whined to anyone and everyone who would listen. Whining is what a CHILD does, a MAN pulls himself up, dusts himself off and opens his own business which is exactly what Joe A. and others have done.
3.Made false statements, mis-represented FACTS, Lied about information given and gathered and attempted to make “blanket statements’ that simply weren’t true or realative.
Finally, what have you done, NOTHING!!! You don’t know this business, don’t want to know this business, have no respect for this business, have no respect for the people that live/work and gain money from this business. All you do is MOCK and DEGRADE!
You wonder why people don’t view you and 1st amendment as GOD like any more, probably because they aren’t looking at you through rose colored glasses any more!!!! Maybe they are listening to me and I’ll I’m saying is: DON’T BELIEVE A WORD YOU READ WITHOUT VERIFYING IT FOR YOURSELVES!!!!! Don’t believe Me, don’t believe Guest and certainly don’t believe 1st amendment EVER!!!!
1st amendment; Would you quit with your “monkey” comments, it really makes you look and sound more foolish than what you normally do.
Again, Not mad at you, never have been mad at you, doubt I will ever be mad at you. Do I think you are wrong? Yes Do I think you have learned from “guest” “anon” and Liz how to “stretch the truth”, “out and out make mis-statments”, “tell Lies for so long that even you believe them”? Yes.
It’s amazing, someone that’s only been “in the business” for one year (actually less than one year) Thinks he knows so much more about this business than someone that’s been in it for over 25 Years such as myself and others that have posted on this site. Is this arrogance or stupidity? Doesn’t matter much does it, still makes you FOOLISH and STUPID.
Why do cleaning franchisors hurt people like Mr. Padilha and Mr. Martins. Please read part of the following article that came out in the New York Times.
What was hapening in 2005 is still hapening today in 2010.
To read the whole article you can go to the following link.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/national/13franchising.html
Lawsuits Charge Fraud in Cleaning Business
By STEVEN GREENHOUSE
Published: July 13, 2005
João Padilha had been saving money from his work as a restaurant deliveryman outside Boston when he heard a tantalizing offer to buy a cleaning franchise.
Marcos Martins, a Brazilian immigrant like Mr. Padilha, was looking to go into business.
Tri Duc Nguyen, a Vietnamese immigrant in Portland, Ore., needed a way to make money after Fujitsu closed the factory where he worked.
All three men put thousands of dollars into cleaning franchises and say they were shortchanged.
As Mr. Padilha retells it, the top Boston representative of Coverall Cleaning Concepts said he could make $3,000 a month cleaning buildings if he paid $12,880 for a franchise. What is more, Mr. Padilha says he was told he could easily parlay his investment into a large cleaning business.
So Mr. Padilha paid the money and was assigned two women’s health clinics, in Haverhill and Newburyport, Mass.
He was told it would take two and a half hours a day to clean the clinics, but it took six hours, he said. Coverall also gave him two dialysis clinics, and soon he was cleaning and shuttling among clinics from 5:30 p.m. to 7 a.m. on weekdays, with six more hours on weekends.
He estimated that he worked 65 hours a week and 280 hours a month. But his receipts show that Coverall, which handled payments, paid him $1,262 a month, less than half what he says he had been promised.
“I was doing all this work, but the check was for very little money,” Mr. Padilha said.
So he went to the director of Coverall’s Boston office to complain.
“When I came in, they said I had no more work,” Mr. Padilha said. “He said the supervisor of one clinic no longer wanted me. They took all my work away in one fell swoop. I asked for my franchise money back, but they said no.”
“It’s sad for a man to cry, but I left that room crying,” he added.
Mr. Padilha said he recouped none of his investment and soon learned that Mr. Martins had obtained the franchise to clean the dialysis clinics.
Mr. Martins said: “I asked why the person who was doing it before had discontinued the work. The field consultant told me the person had gone back to Brazil.”
Mr. Martins put $5,000 down and promised to pay $306 a month for two years to obtain a franchise that he was told would generate $2,000 a month for him. He said he cleaned clinics 72 hours a week, about 300 hours a month, but received just $1,366.
He, too, was, abruptly terminated at the clinics for reasons he says he never understood.
A dozen franchisees, including Mr. Padilha and Mr. Martins, are suing Coverall, charging it with fraud, breach of contract and failing to pay the minimum wage. They assert that the company took out improperly large commissions and did not have enough customers to supply franchisees.
1st amendment: No argument from me, IF this happened, they need to Sue Coverall and Coverall needs to stop this practice IF they are doing NONSENSE like this. Did they sue? Did they win?
Jerry writes “No argument from me, IF this happened…”
No, I’m sure they made it up, Jerry. This story is 5 years old and the same story has been retold over and over by dozens of hardworking immigrants preyed on by the unscrupulous scammers you make excuses for on a daily basis.
“IF this happened”? Give me a break.
Janiking seems to be ripping of alot of people here in USA and also in the UK. There is a UK blog http://www.able2know.com in that blog you can read some of the Horror stories of how janiking rips-off people. However I liked what someone posted and decided to share it with all of you. Basicaly its about people coming together and taking ACTION!
http://able2know.org/topic/40641-6
There was a group called the Cleanup group in 1999. Started by a franchisee, who got in touch with as many other franchisees as possible, from the list provided in due diligence, who then, in turn, contacted all the franchisees they knew and held meetings in Tamworth. Franchisees came from all over the country, also Scotland. They all decided to go collectively to the press. There was a massive campaign by the Daily Mirror’s SORTED page by Andrew Penman, even the Times carried the story, he was hated by J.K. J.K. met with the representatives of the Cleanup group, gave the leaders top jobs, changed their ways for a couple of years then went back to normal after riding out the storm.
Maybe it is time for another Cleanup Group
There was also a good solicitor called Douglas Jones Mercer at
I do not know if they still practice but it would be worth a try.
Good Luck!
URL: http://able2know.org/topic/40641-6
Guest/SEIU: Yes, it’s been told over and over. You know why, because people like you and the attorneys attempting to make a profit continually “churn” the same GARBAGE day in and day out. It goes back to the “Charge”. It doesn’t matter what the TRUTH is, it’s the seriousness of the CHARGE. This is right out of the union play book and is in the 1st chapter, 1st verse of the Karl Marx handbook of how to “topple” a FREE SOCIETY.
SEIU (formally known as guest) has a very vested interest in the outcome of the lawsuits. That’s why they are financing and paying for all of the attorneys currently engaged in the Class Action suits. You say you can’t believe that, REALLY! How about the recent “election” in Arkansas. Though I am certainly not a Blanche Lincoln supporter, look at what the SEIU did or tried to do in that state.
Yes, believe it, they are the one’s footing the bill. WHY? Because they believe that regardless of the outcome they can continue to Grow their ranks either by forcing the “national companies” to negotiate with them or by making a “peace offering” to the “big 3″ to the tune of allowing unionized workers in at least the larger facilities/contracts that they have. You see, here in Indianapolis and in other cities where “Janitors for Justice” supposidly worked, the building owners/managers have started replacing those “signature companies” with owner/operator companies at an alarming rate!!!
Now, Unions have their place in our society, they even have some GOOD THOUGHTS from time to time, but most Unions aren’t run by the actual members, the one’s actually paying the dues, they are run by people such as SEIU here, they are communist supporting, marxist believing, socialist dreaming, Progressive Thinking, Idealogues whose only objective is to make their pockets bigger and YOURS and MINE smaller.
1st amendment: Didn’t mean to leave you out of the conversation, but I would actually agree and welcome something similar to happen in regards to an “oversite group” for franchise owners. WAIT A SECOND, I actually proposed that very Same Thing!!!!!!!!
Here’s a FOOD for THOUGHT, maybe that’s the way it should be done, reasonable people, talking in a reasonable manner, working things out in a reasonable way.
But I know, it won’t happen. I’m not blaming anyone, not even 1st amendment (I will always continue to blame SEIU though and the attorneys taking SEIU’s money, which by the way is union dues money, someone should launch an investigation on why Union Leaders get to take Union Dues and use it for political and non-sensical ways) unfortunately we live in a Day and Society that can’t see past, over, through the attorneys!!!!! Everyone does everything they can not to get sued, and yet, that’s usually what happens.
Only way to STOP this nonsense on both SIDES of the Issue, is to get the ATTORNEYS out of the middle. Both are liars, both spew garbage, both have agendas that are unproductive. By Both, I mean the franchise supported attorneys and the SEIU, 1st amendment, “aiwah” attorneys.
HOLLER!!!!! If you wish they could plug the hole in the Gulf with Attorneys!!!!!!!
“Maybe it is time for another Cleanup Group”
Great point, 1st Amendment. We need a “Cleanup Group” run by people who are so crazy passionate that they won’t be diverted by bribes, cushy jobs, threats, intimidation or be worn down by those who will attack their integrity, intelligence, business judgement, or ethnic background the way Flip-Flopper Jerry does.
There is big money at stake and these companies spend millions advertising and scamvertising their indentured servant programs dressed up like business ownership. The scam continues because they know their victims are poor and do not have the resources to fight back. But corrupt regimes can be toppled by passionate rebels by using guerilla tactics, outsmarting rather than outspending.
SEIU: Wow, Ididn’t know that these companies had millions and millions of dollars to spend on advertising, lawyers, meals, lawyers, planes, lawyers, equipment, lawyers. Did I forget to mention that they spend millions of dollars on lawyers?
How about you and your organization SEIU? What do you spend millions of hard earned union dues on? Elections, ACORN, Lawsuits against Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall. At least the “big 3″ are using profits to pay for their issues, YOUR stealing from Union Members, Union Dues that are supposed to be spent for specific purposes. Is there really in difference between YOU and the MOB?
SEIU: Did you at least “pucker” first before you kissed 1st amendment as he bent over? So why the change of tactics? Could it be the “legal run” is about to end, could it be that the SEIU as a body has decided not to pay attorneys fees any more? Could it be the typical “cut and run” tactics of Unions as a whole? Why don’t you praise “Janitors for Justice” any more?
Come on SEIU (formally known as guest) why don’t you answer some questions for a change? Awful Funny, such a smart, brillant thinker, arrogant bastard such as yourself should have some answers for a “simpleton” such as me.
Now its funny as to why you can’t deny anything that I stated earlier in my posts about your ties to the SEIU, what PROGRESSIVES think, What racism really is, Why you think the way that you do, Why you “diss” people who you deem “inferior”, you know What Stalin, Lenin and others have done with inferior people, those are your hero’s they were as arrogant as you are!!!
To jerry who said that he is an insider with jan-pro
Jerry you liar. This is the second time you say that you are leaving for ever and not posting ever again. You threw a tantrum last week and said that you would not be coming back. Now you know why I call you a snot nose Hipotric little monkey.
You said that you would never be coming back. You said that you would never post again. You said that we would not see you here again. Liar, Liar, Liar. How many more lies have you told us and how many more will you tell us.
You are not a man of your word you are only a screaming little monkey.
Twice you said that you would not be coming back and here you are again.
The word out in the street is that the check that the franchisor gave you BOUNCED! Just like the ladies who came out on Telemundo who got a Bounced check from jan-pro. So you had to threaten them by coming in here and saying that you would not be posting anymore and that you would be gone forever. I guess the franchisor finally relented and paid you cash to come in here and post your monkey dung once again.
1st amendment: You don’t read much do you? I pointed out perfectly that after I recieved my latest check from the “big 3″ I had just enough money in my pocket to go out and get a twelve pack of my favorite adult beverage! Now after downing the entire twelve pack, I was able to come in here and make mince meat out of you and SEIU once again.
Now my TELEMINDO reference for the day revolved around their “cracker jack” investigative reporter finding out that Your attorney’s were being paid for/by SEIU (no not the one formally known as “guest”) the actual Union itself.
By the way, does anyone else think it’s weird that the “founder” of the SEIU has stepped down amid several scandals recently? One of those scandals envolved the recent spending of millions of dollars of union collected dues on an election in Arkansas. Also, they continue to spend millions of dollars on these “lawsuits” against the “big 3″. Could it be that the “rank and file” members are wanting their Union Back? Also, another Question? How did a white woman become President of the SEIU. I thought this was a Union represented by its “body of members”. I’m sorry, I know I don’t go to SEIU meetings, but I got to believe that White Women are not the majority of members in the SEIU. Got nothing against White Women mind you, just looking at the numbers.
1st amendment, could you go and do some racial profiling as you have done with your “callers”. Find out for us what % of White Women are actual members of the SEIU.
Jerry:
What is your level of formal education? You obviously weren’t “college material,” but did you finish high school? GED? 8th grade?
There’s nothing wrong with the school of hard knocks. Some of the wealthiest men in America are dropouts, so be honest.
SEIU: What do you care, why don’t you start answering the “question of the day”. WHATS NEXT. Seems to me, you owe everyone an answer. Your so smart, you are so “worldly”, you know this business so well, you know people so well, you know franchising so well.
HOW ABOUT a simple answer…. WHATS NEXT!!!!!!!
Who the heck is SEIU? An imaginary friend? Please up your meds if you’re hearing voices again, Jerr-Bear.
Don’t be embarrassed about yer ritin’ and a-cipherin. Are you saying you DIDN’T finish 8th grade at Jesse Helms Elementary?
SEIU is the Service Employee International Union. Many janitors join this union in large markets, state employees, etc…..
Pete/SEIU: Yes, you are correct about SEIU, that happens to be who “guest” is. After many reviews in concern to his past postings, his obvious relationship with the “case” and the fact that he continually “rushes” to 1st amendments defense, plus the fact that the SEIU is paying at least part of the “bill” for the current class action lawsuits filed against Jan-Pro, Coverall and Jani-King.
SEIU knows exactly who he is and why I’m calling him that.
The janitorial franchise scam is sort of brilliant, in its own sinister, evil way.
There will always be companies who put profit ahead of the American worker and the American way. After U.S. manufacturers have squeezed all they can legally from the workers domestically, they move the jobs overseas where they won’t have to pay workers a living wage or provide a safe working environment.
While these janitorial companies can’t move their work offshore, they have found a way to get slave labor without the pesky employment laws, unemployment compensation, minimum wage, overtime, etc.
It’s pretty brilliant! Just call it a “franchise” and the slave labor will actually pay THEM to mop floors and clean toilets. And as long as they have mindless worker bee managers to delude themselves that it’s a legitimate business, the scam can go on and on for years.
As long as there’s no hell, no judgement day coming, they just might get away with it!
SEIU: Well there’s a different tone, you are basically admitting right in front of Pete and everyone else that you are a “union goon”.
Of course, does it really matter, NO. Just would like for you to be honest for once.
To jerry the liar who twice said that he would never be comming back. He promised to never come back and he went back on his word can you believe anything that he says?
The Goverment had a study in 2001. The United States Goverment Accountability Office found that 3,491 people were tipped-off by cleaning franchisors.
Also the franchising world views cleaning franchisors as a source of embarrassment for the franchise industry.
1st amendment: I’m amazed at your stupidity. Who cares if the what the GAO got “tipped off” by the cleaning franchisors. OH, you mean “ripped off”. REALLY! where’s that study, was it done by the same people that are wanting TOYS out of Happy Meals?
The only one’s that should be embarrassed are you and SEIU. How dare you continue to “lead” people down a path that there is no HOPE, no FUTURE, no SATISFACTION and no JUSTICE. Let’s ask “aiwah’ how he feels after the years of stress, time, effort, physical and emotional strain, let’s ask him and his “co-plantiffs” what its like to have your Hopes dashed, your Fears realized because at the end of the day, they are standing there by themselves as “liz and her merry band of attorneys” leave them behind to pursue other cases.
Where’s your dignity, seems like you and SEIU should go away and not come back.
To jerry the liar who twice said that he would never be comming back. He promised to never come back and he went back on his word can you believe anything that he says?
The Goverment had a study in 2001. The United States Goverment Accountability Office found that 3,491 people were RIPPED-OFF by cleaning franchisors.
Also the franchising world views cleaning franchisors as a source of embarrassment for the franchise industry.
1st amendment: Still can’t grasp the Question of the Day: WHATS NEXT!. You seem to continue “spewing” your garbage without answering any of the valid questions and thoughts of the “viewers”.
1. Who’s paying for your attorneys fees? Valid question. You obviously can’t afford a 400.00 per hour attorney, approx. 10K per month right now, more later.
2. Why are you “pimping’ your attorney and actually “tracking” who you are “pimping” them to?
3. Why are you and SEIU so close?
New Slave Labor Franchise. Here’s a press release issued late last year.
“Jani-King Janitorial Franchise Becomes New Slave Labor Franchise”
Jani King Considered Worse Franchise To Invest In By Previous Investors
Jani-King makes some amazing promises to prospective franchise buyers,
but as many Jani-King Franchise buyers are now finding out the hard way,
“all that glitters is not gold.”
Jani-King has made major profits in the janitorial industry, by deceiving hard working people, that are looking to invest in a franchise opportunity, or business opportunity that offers them a good return on their investment, and as a result of Jani-King’s deceptive and unethical business practices, both present and past Jani-King franchise owners are now making their complaints publicly known, after many past and present Jani-King franchise owners feel that they were deceived by the many false promises of high returns, made to them by Jani-king representatives.
Jani-King is gaining a national reputation for becoming the new slavery franchise, that takes 20% of each franchise owner’s profit up front before the franchise owner get a penny, and to make matters worse, the franchise owner has to worry about labor cost, taxes, payroll preparation, cleaning product costs, and equipment cost.
Jani King franchise owners claim that Jani King will never tell them what their net income is going to be.
If these claims are true of Jani-King, then Jani-King has become another corporate franchise that is not much better that Pre Paid Legal and its deceptive business practices, that yielded a federal investigation, class action lawsuits, and a decline in its once trusted reputation.
Jani-King now faces lawsuits filed recently in Pennsylvania, Minnesota and California against Jani-King, contending that Jani-King misrepresented their offerings, because they do not have sufficient customers to guarantee each franchisee the amount of monthly cleaning business they purchase. Instead, the lawsuits allege, they breach their contracts by underbidding the amount of time and staffing required for each job, refusing to allow franchisees to inspect cleaning jobs or bid sheets before accepting or rejecting a job, offering geographically inconvenient jobs and unjustly taking jobs from one franchisee to re-sell them to others.
Jani-King has now been put on the North Carolina Consumer News alert watch for its deceptive business practices, and NC Consumer News will be following complaints and lawsuits being filed against Jani-King very closely.
Source: http://www.pressreleasepoint.com/janiking-janitorial-franchise-becomes-new-slave-labor-franchise
SEIU: Well thanks for that SEIU propoganda link and post. I’m sure no one else that is currenlty viewing this site would even bother checking to see who the originator of the “post” was.
Your so good to your word:; NOW the Question of the WEEK: WHATS NEXT!!!!
SEIU: Now how about you continue to show your “true colors” Obviously it has been proven without doubt that you have a “vested interest” in the outcome of the cases currently working their way through the system. That’s fine, except honesty is always the best policy even for PROGRESSIVES, LIBRALS and MARXISTS such as you.
Having said all of that, lets remind our viewing audiance your continued disdain not only for them, but the industry in which they seek to get a portion of their “future earnings” from. “Go clean some toilets”, “I don’t care about these people”, “who cares about the thirty thousand” , “lawsuits are gooooood money”.
So you don’t like the business, you don’t like the people in the business, you don’t like “common people”, you don’t care about anyone but yourself. You are a disgusting low life and have no business associating yourself with these fine people!!!!!
Jerry:
We’ve spent (wasted) a lot of time trying to bring your spelling to a 2nd grade level. Today’s lesson is punctuation, specifically quotation marks.
Quotation marks are used for exact quotes, and mean that the other person used those exact words.
For instance, when I quote you as saying “this will be my final posting,” that’s because it’s exactly what you said (right before you posted again).
Whan I quote your racist remarks like ““Even in California it’s at least ‘taco time’ isn’t it?” and “I was forced to go into the basement and feed/water all of the illegal aliens…” it’s because that’s exactly what you said. Hence the quotation marks.
Or if I’m referring to exact terms others have used to describe you, such as “a complete tool,” “weirdo,” or “a self-indulged, passive-aggressive, narcissist,” it’s appropriate to use quotation marks.
When you put things in quotation marks that you just made up and others did not write (“I don’t care about these people”, “who cares about the thirty thousand””.), that is called LYING and BEING DECEPTIVE.
You know, the same stuff you and your janitorial scam artist colleagues do when you’re extracting the savings account from a hardworking father who heard about the American Dream but not the lowlife scammers like you who prey on the unsuspecting victims who believed in it.
SEIU: You are a liar, you are someone who doesn’t care, you have proven that over and over again. It is disgusting how you supposidly believe that you are so much more intelligent than everyone else. You won’t admit that you have a “vested” interest. You won’t admit that you and 1st amendment are leading people down a bad or wrong path.
These people such as “aiwah” in some form or fashion have gone through enough. But the attorneys that you are paying for, people like you who don’t care and others filling these poor people with “pie in the sky” visions, have left these poor plantiffs with a 200K judgement. Whether or not they have the money to pay is beside the point, you have to understand that they’ve gone through years of litigation, statements, hopes, fears, mental and physical stress just to become a “test case”. REALLY!
SEIU/1st amendment: What’s happening to the two of you, you are both becoming unraveled, are you not getting enough sleep, are you getting the “feedback” from others as to why you are losing trust and more and more “viewers” are questioning your validity.
How about letting me help you through this. Answer some simple questions from a simple man:
What about the thirty thousand current owner/operators and what happens to their investment?
What about “aiwah”, what about his 200K judgement that will send him into bankruptcy?
What about SEIU (not that one, the other one) why are they paying for your attorneys fees 1st amendment? And why do you hide it?
SEIU why do you hate people so much? You make fun of regions of the country, people of those regions, their food/drink, you make fun of the commercial cleaning industry as a whole, franchising as well.
To jerry who lied to everyone on here and said that he would never post or come back again.
Will you admit that you lied when you said that you would never come back ?
You said that you would never come back, however your back. Infact you said it twice. Twice you said that you would never come back. You lied, you little lying monkey.
Remember when you were telling me to sue jan-pro. Remember when you told me to either “put up or shut up”. Remember when you were screaming and jumping up and down and telling me to “sue jan-pro, put up or shut up” remember when you said all of those things to me. You said it to me for quite some time. The whole time I was thinking is this guy nuts when I was already taking legal action and had been a lead plaintiff for two years.
Finally I was fed up with your monkey dung and I told you to give me your e-mail so that I could e-mail you a copy of the Lawsuit. What happened then is that you felt like a total idiot!
What did you do next? You did a 360 and started attacking me for taking legal action. That’s why I say that talking to you is like talking to a monkey on crack.
1st amendment: What is your problem, you really need a doctor tonight, maybe you and SEIU should take “aiwah” out for drinks tonight. He would appreciate that very much. Right now he’s lonely, Liz and her merry band of attorneys won’t return his phone calls. He has a 200K judgement to pay and no one will even speak with him anymore.
Why don’t you take your pet monkey with you. Why you are out with SEIU why don’t give him your recent attorneys bill so he can pay that for you. Have you even bothered to answer any of the questions that I’ve posed?
You know, when you don’t answer the questions, people assume the worst. Are you stil racial profiling all of your “phone calls”? Or is that simply your way of tracking the people you have “pimped for your attorney”.
Take the night off, regroup, call aiwah, call SEIU and see if “liz and her merry bunch of attorneys are still on your speed dial”.
To jerry who said that he is an insidor at jan-pro.
When will you admit that you lied when twice you said that you wouldn’t come back.. Your not a man, you have no word, you don’t keep your promises.
I bet you feel like a fool now. Are you going to trow any more tantrums.
What will you say when more Lawsuits are filled?
What will you say when people start piketing?
What will you say when the Attorney General and Federal Trade Comision take action?
1st amendment: Why are you so bitter? Why are you continuing to lead people down a path that will simply lead them into bankruptcy court? Why don’t you care about the thrity thousand current owner/operators in they system? Who’s paying your attorneys fees? Who’s filing your taxes? Why are you doing racial profiling on the people contacting you via other sites? Why haven’t you spoken to “aiwah”? Why are you insisting that you have been abused in this system?
1st amendment, start answering questions, until you do, you won’t get anyone on your side any more, yes, you’ll still have your original posse, you’ll even get a couple of sympathy calls from time to time, but in the end, you’ll be like “aiwah” all alone, 200K plus judgement in hand, seeing a bankruptcy judge and not even SEIU will want to know “who you are”.
Dear 1st Amendment/Guest …
You had me at “Hola” … can you not see that Jerry the Clown has to have the last word? We get it – it is a scam. Please stop encouraging JTC and he will have no more cause to horrifically butcher the English language.
BTW, 1st … perhaps before your time a well-known TV analyst lost his job by commenting “look at that little monkey run” … so I would advise caution when calling JTC a monkey – have to agree – kind of like the pot calling the kettle negro.
If you insist on giving JTC his voice – I would recommend a less racially sensitive animal … like a jackass for example.
Just my 2 pesos
Real Americans admire people like 1st Amendment & other plaintiffs, because the real heroes in this great country are those who refuse to be victims, who refused to back down, who refused to be intimidated or shamed into silence by thieves and bullies. 1st Amendment & other plaintiffs are taking a stand against corruption, scammers and evil-doers, which is what Americans are taught to do. Maybe they lost their money, but they kept their self-respect and the respect of their families.
I know you were raised with other values, that you were taught to get what you can no matter how. Iknow you’re bitter because you had to drop out of David Duke Elementary to watch the family moonshine still. But know this:
1st Amendment did not sell out his fellow man for the Almighty Dollar like you did, Jerry. He is richer than you will ever be, no matter how many millions in sales you brag about.
And despite your efforts to flood this conversation with 31 posts per day, the truth is being heard and you and the other janitorial franchise scammers are being exposed for the weasels you are, thanks to 1st Amendment and the franchisees brave enough to sue.
1st Amendment:
Teodoro makes a good point when he writes “I would advise caution when calling JTC [Jerry the Clown] a monkey”
He’s right. In the South, where Jerry was “reared,” monkey is sometimes is used as a racial insult.
Plus, monkeys are actually intelligent animals. How about an Ostrich, since he buries his head in the sand? Or a weasel? Or one that eats it’s own young? Or a snake, specifically the belly, since nothing’s lower.
Teodoro:
If I thought I was “giving JTC his voice” I’d never post again. In fact, I might just shoot myself to be sure.
He posted 31 times in the past 24 hours. I don’t think he’d stop if he were the only one here.
Tedoro, SEIU and 1st amendment: Boy it must really be a concern of yours my continual posts, you go from counting the letters, to counting the pages, to counting the posts. Funny, usually when someone goes to that much trouble, it seems they must be a threat.
Tedoro, nice you are truly a “brilliant” indvidual, you speak as poor in spanish as supposidly I do in English. But it was a nice try by SEIU to invent a “friend”.
SEIU: Still cant answer questions very well can you, you obviously don’t care about the industry, you don’t care about the people in the industry, you really dont care about “aiwah” or even 1st amendment. What do your care about?
I think its funny how if I wasn’t a “bother” or a “threat” you would simply encourage me to “shut me up”, but no you must be feeling some “pain”. Is that “pain” related to the new “change of leadership” at SEIU? Has a timetable been sent down the line to either WIN or we are pulling our funding. Funding by the way taken/stolen from the fine union dues that the wonderful but ever dwindling number of the “Justice for Janitors” cause that was done and now failed in several cities including right here in Indianapolis otherwise known as INDY!!!!
SEIU, New Phrase. BRING IT ON!!!!!! Come after me or SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!
Ha ha – at least I spelled your name right JTC. I am just a regular working guy who was almost duped into this scam. My thanks go out to Guest and 1st Amendment but the really convincing reason NOT (look I can use CAPS too) to go comes from little ‘ol you JTS (not a typo – Jerry the Snake is a little more catchy)
Vaya Con Dios y Adios el Serpiente Loco