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CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story

March 10, 2009

The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.

My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the changes his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.

We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.

The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.

It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.

At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.

Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right

In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.

In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.

While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.

I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.

Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.

Written by ADMIN · Filed Under 30 Minute Fitness, ALL POSTS, Curves for Women 

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1,241 Responses to “CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story”

  1. Sadderbutwiser on July 18th, 2008 1:24 pm

    Mr Lay:

    Thank you for telling your story. I can totally relate. Four years ago, my wife, her niece and I owned a Curves so successful it had 1,100 members and was named franchise of the year for the Southeast US. We wound up owning a total of three Curves. The future seemed incredibly bright,

    What happened in between is a long, frustrating story that I’ve told at franchisepick.com, but today, my wife and I are broke, bankrupt and about six weeks away from losing our home to foreclosure, and we’ve still got a child in diapers. I’ve never known such feelings of fear, failure and despair, day in and day out.

    Oversaturization killed us, just as it did you. Curves should have capped the number of clubs at 4,000 to 5,000. We started cannibalizing one another to survive, while fighting off knockoffs.

    The only group-action lawsuit I’ve heard of is being filed by Zarco and Einhorn in Miami. If you’ve heard of others, I’d like to hear about them. Unfortunately, we were told by Zarco that since we SOLD our clubs – one for full price and two others for a paltry 50 cents each plus debt when things got real bad – and didn’t close them we couldn’t be part of the lawsuit.

    Thanks again for your testimony. Perhaps our stories will keep others thinking about buying a resale from experiencing the nightmare we’ve endured for the past few years.

  2. Dorothy (Texas) on July 23rd, 2008 9:46 am

    I am in the process of a “sale” for 10k. I originally was going to close on July 31, 2008. A buyer came forward, we met, and she wanted more info and went to CI and when they were through they told her to go through MCord to handle the sale instead of coming back to me. They wanted thier 5k fee. They lied to both of us. They got me to agree under duress. I have been in business four years. They were going to come after me for the remainder of 10 years. Two years ago I put in for a 2-day “tune-up” for July 2006. Before it could happen all of my employees quit. I called CI and asked for a 2 month delay, and they said no. They said that if I did not go through with it, they were going to hit my account for the two months dues forgiveness from the previous 2 months, and take the next month at the same time. So I sat with the trainer for 2 days and did nothing but entertain her, buy her lunch and pay her mileage and fees. I have been furious with CI ever since. I participated with the Powerful Promotions Fitness Study two months later when it was “illegal” with CI. My cards accidentally went into a neighboring territory, she called me and called me everything but white and human for an hour on the phone. Called our AD, and she called me an hour later and said that she would have to turn me over to legal, I told her go ahead, that I was doing whatever it took to keep my doors open. I never heard from legal at all. It was approved shortly thereafter. Of course this was after Gary Heavin was able to get an office inside thier operation, so he could monitor it and make sure he got his share of the money. I was the only one in my area that decided to do the study, and after the other clubs saw my results, they lost thier fear and jumped on the bandwagon. Now nothing works. All of our so called methods are ambiguous. My paper went out of business a few months ago, mailouts are outrageous, telemarketing is out of the question. My territory should be closed and never re-opened. We are rural and people have to drive purposely to get to me. McCord is telling me that I should be “happy” to be selling even though it is at a loss, they call 5k “some money”. They expect me to leave all of my circuit (all 14 pieces) and furniture, computers, everything for this price. They are crazy, since I paid for the other 6 pieces, they are going, along with everything else into storage. I feel sorry for the new owners, since one of them is a member in my club already. They don’t have a clue as to how hard they are going to have to work. They are dealing with my landlord now. She is stupid, she refused to make improvements for me in four years, and they are trying to get her to concede on some things. I have been sorry for the last two years for the decision that I made four yers ago. This was my first business, and it had to be a franchise, and now I have to lose it all. I am totally turned off of franchises now. I almost split my territory three years ago and am so glad that I did not, if I had I would be out double my losses. I am deeply disappointed in Gary Heavin and the way he represented his company and the lies that he spews forth. I am so glad that I did not buy the Smart Equipment, that would have been another loss. We were part of the first roll out last year, here in Texas. They tried to strong arm us into it. I did not bite. I was told yesterday by the new owner, that soon it will be mandatory for every club. I hope this will dissappoint people from jumping off into this company. If you are contemplating buying sit down and talk with the owner in the area you are considering, then make your decision.

  3. JoAnn on July 24th, 2008 12:43 am

    I feel for you Dorothy. My sister had to go through mccord as well and they could care less about her all they cared about was getting their money. Gary Heavin has this guy McCord set up in business as an approved vendor to broker resales. Sounds like a conflict of interest to me. Who are they representing the seller or Curves anyway. It’s hard to figure out.

  4. me on July 25th, 2008 7:42 pm

    I bought 3 curves franchises a year ago guess what I cant make my rent I bounce my payrolls and now I am at a loss for words…I have 2 kids in college and I am drowning

  5. Karla DeJesus on July 29th, 2008 11:37 am

    Hello all. Me and my husband purchased a curves in the ohio area October 2007. I was so excited because I had own a business before. I was off work and I only had my retirement money to live on. My husband was laid off making litle money so we thought that this would be a great investment. Well my story goes like this. I purchased this club from an employee from Curves International. She had only owned the club from July 2008-Oct. 2008. She stated that Curves approached her about the opportunity to buy. (seemed strange) to me but my excitement was over shawdowing any I thought I was getting a good deal with everything included in the package. (equipment, washer/dryer, etc). However this is when my nitemare began. The revenue was not generating , landlord was making me honor a prior lease agreement, they were not responsible for no maitenance of their space. They were not helping to promote to bring more business in the mall. I requested from curves international to relocate and they denied me statin that the new location was within 2 miles from existing location. I tried discussing this matter wih curves but they replied to an e-mail but when I ask for their suggestion on where to locate they never responded back. I tried requesting support from the area director and additional training they stated that they did not do that but other trainings were offered about 45 minutes from me. But they will call me to clear out my curves e-mail account.
    Now I am getting further in debt with no support can not move, can not pay my rent nor can I afford an attorney.
    The training that was held in Texas was more of promoting their products and you as the owner need to buy, buy buy.
    Curves misrepresented themselves and I feel as if I am stuck.

  6. feet to the fire on July 29th, 2008 2:16 pm

    I have been an owner for almost 2 years. I understand that there’s lots to learn when you start a business, and that it’s tough to turn a profit w/in the first few years in business.
    What I don’t understand is why the only ‘help’ we are offered is the supposedly ‘proven systems’ that worked amazingly over 10 years ago when Curves was a phenomenon. Where is forward thinking? Strategic planning? Where are the ‘systems’ that assist the owner in day-to-day operations (eg. procedures for all staff members from unlocking in the morning to shutting down at night?) (It’s been an interesting adventure and education putting together those procedures during the past year, but isn’t that what the supposed benefit of purchasing a franchise is to entail?)
    I’m hoping to sell my area asap, but in my heart I know it’s highly unlikely. Who willingly buys a broken car?
    I don’t know if I have enough ‘fight’ left in me or the capital necessary for legal action. I’d be relieved to be out from under, feeling much smarter about business (and possible mistakes to avoid in the future).

  7. Mark on July 29th, 2008 3:16 pm

    I have been a franchisee of a Handyman business in the past. The one thing anyone getting into a franchise needs to remember…the franchisor is in the business of selling franchises. Once they have your money I find that the franchisor is not very helpful with any problems.

    Be careful when buying a franchise, more than likely you can do the idea on your own, have faith in yourself and go for it on your terms, not the franchisor terms.

  8. Danie on July 30th, 2008 12:39 pm

    Hello All I have owned my franchise for three years, I have not been making any money for two years and not getting any help 2 years ago I had a stroke my doctor said it was do to stress I am 46 years old trying to hang on but very hard I would never do this again

  9. Shelly on July 31st, 2008 9:29 pm

    I am sad to hear all of these terrible stories but I am glad to know I am not alone. I just closed my business in June. It was a very hard deciosion to make because I dearly love my members but it was a business decision and it had to be done. Other Curves owners that I be-friended told me how they were paying credit with credit, not making the rent and then the economy went south. I saw it was going to happen to me as well. I had considered closing in October of 2007 and called to see what I had to do to close and I was told there would be no closing fees. I decided to tough it out and hang on a little longer and that was a mistake. Luckily I didn’t really go further in debt and my business was able to stay above water but I had not taken a pay check since June of 2006. I called them back earlier this year and I was threatened with the 10K closing fee. I was told to sell it for $1 to avoid paying that fee. I was decreased to running around town offering my Curves for free to anyone who would take it, so when it doesnt sell you look like a fool that you couldn’t even sell it for a $1. They did decrease my fee but it was still too much. I have a $25k loan I still have to pay that I took out to buy the franchise in 2004 and I am unemployed. The funny thing is, when I signed up there had to be a population of 5000. When I did my initial research the 2000 cencus reported my area as having 3,600. I assumed this would prevent me from being able to purchase the club. They told me I had a population of 5800. When I asked them how they come up with that figure they told me they figure populations in towns where I would be pulling members from. After I opened Curves clubs were put in those towns and I was no longer pulling from them. About a month after I opened they raised the bar of the population to 7,500. Do you know still to this day they tell me I have a population of 5800 and I know it is not the truth. I was allowed to buy a franchise that was not going to work for long. We were all set up for failure.

  10. Charlie on August 3rd, 2008 2:28 pm

    How can I contact Mr. Robert Lay?

  11. ADMIN on August 3rd, 2008 6:45 pm

    Send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com and I will forward to to him.

  12. Bob on August 7th, 2008 3:58 pm

    How can I have the contact (address, email or fax) of the lawyer filing the class action against Curves International?

  13. Becky on August 10th, 2008 5:45 pm

    I too am closing my doors this coming Wednesday. It is not for lack of effort and putting all of my personal money into the business just to keep the doors open these past 3 1/2 years. What a pattern I see as I read the comments above. We are all in the same boat that has a large hole in the bottom, draining all our money, our time and our energy, all for nothing in the end. I too, loved the concept of Curves and what it has meant to my members these past 3 years. They are so saddened by the closing of a club they dearly loved. My only consolation in these final days are the wonderful cards and notes from them expressing their appreciation for the venture I took on in opening the club. Curves wants $10,000 from me by the end of this week. I just have to laugh. Don’t they realize if I had $10,000, I wouldn’t be closing my doors. I am so glad I did not have the money to invest in the Curves Smart equipment. How much more debt I would have been in if I’d gone down that road. Thanks for everyone’s comments. I definitely feel that I am not alone or as much a failure knowing others like me, have lost it all in this venture. How sad for us all.

  14. Carrie Campbell on August 10th, 2008 10:51 pm

    Robert, I would love to talk to you, I had to close my curves for breach of contract, The Ad decided to let the clubs in my area know that i was closing and I Never said that or signed an intent to close form. Please contace me with your information so we can talk further into this. Curves has tried to bribe me with waving fees not to say anything/

  15. Stacy Graupner on August 11th, 2008 3:18 pm

    We are in the same boat and have a lot of ammunition against McCord brokers for elevating numbers in our purchase. We definitely want to be a part of any group action as Mr. Heavin has misrepresented this entity to the fullest. How do we get involved?
    Thanks.

  16. Dorothy (Texas) on August 12th, 2008 7:25 pm

    This is for all that are interested in the lawsuit, contact [unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com for forwarding], he will be gald to talk with you about your options. He is not the lawyer. I sent my paperwork yesterday and I am so happy I did. Curves sent me a letter saying I owe them in excess of $40k for fees for the next six years. It is ludicrous. They stold my territory from me, and sold it to the buyer for $5k and PROVIDED her with machines. I locked all mine up and everything else, they wanted me to walk away from computers, programs etc and leave for her. Was not about to let her have them. So they cannot collect this money from me. I am happy I did not cave in on the sale. I would have lost all option in the lawsuit for recovery. They have become a corrupt gustapo, and they think that we are going to run scared. After all the duress they put me through, they are going to get the one-two punch from this Texas gal! There are other area Curves near me that will be closing soon. They can’t keep up with the losses, so they are resorting to intimidation and scare tactics. What ever you do don’t give into them. If you can take your losses now, for a larger gain later. You can contact me if you like. The more there are in on the goup suit, we can tap him. It’s about time we started taking back what is ours!

  17. paulo on August 13th, 2008 3:02 am

    I have very good information to help youe layer with the case, where can I send it, the emails [you gave] do not work.

    [Ed.: email unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com and ask for it to be forwarded]

  18. unhappycurvesownerz on August 14th, 2008 6:15 pm

    Carrie,
    I would love to talk to you. If you send an email to the Ed. note in the above post (unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com] he will forward it to me and I will call you asap.

    Also I would like to thank everyone for posting their stories. Please refer all other contacts you know who own a Curves to this site as the media attention will help put a stop to Gary Heavin’s, what I believe corrupt business practices. Thanks again everyone , Robert

  19. Mellissa on August 17th, 2008 1:01 pm

    I feel terrible for all of you ,
    Here in Québec we dont have any support and
    even if a major competitor here is just taking away
    the members we have because of a better concept (you should see this!!) we just can’t compete, we are all alone
    If I was GH I would buy this Swann fitness
    so we would be all doing better .

  20. Jacki on August 22nd, 2008 5:32 pm

    I feel so sorry for all of you. I was a Curves owner and by thre grace of God sold my business in 2007. Even then it was alot of the same stories. I can’t believe that Curves has not learned how to deal with this. For those of you who asked, McCord Business Brokers is run by Bill (i think) McCord, who used to be the Vice President of Resales for Curves. The impression I got, was in late 2006 and early 2007 when the closures of Curves were starting to go thru the roof, McCord started his own business as an expert on Curves resales. I heard thru a mentor Curves set it up that way to take away any liability from them on re-selling Curves franchises that were not worthy of being re-sold. I personally believe it was also away for Curves to make more money on the side without the franchisees knowing it. In the beginning McCord would not even “accept” my club for resale because it wasn’t profitable. They would pick and chose which franchises they wanted to represent so they could get more commission. It was crazy!
    I know many people who had to close their doors, lost their homes and are still in debt over thier Curves ownership. While like many, I still love the Curves concept, I hate that I ever bought into Curves and their propaganda. It was the worst mistake of my life! And Curves needs to learn to be a fiscally responsible company if they are going to survive long term. They need to be procative and stop being reactionary to the problems that are causing the Curves clubs to close. I wish all of you the best!

  21. unhappycurvesownerz on August 28th, 2008 9:46 pm

    Dear Curves Owners,
    We would like to thank all of the owners who have decided to join us in the group action lawsuit against Curves International and Gary Heavin. The amount or response has been overwhelming. We also want to inform all the other owners who are considering joining the lawsuit that they have until Monday September 15th to join the first group. Keep in mind that the Zarco law firm will accept payments over a 6 month period for the 4,000 dollar retainer.
    If you have any questions don’t hesitate to email Sean at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com and he will forward your message to me.

  22. To buy or not to buy! on September 1st, 2008 11:50 pm

    I have read and reread all of the comments and stories on this site and the other sites, my question to you all is.. the curves in my area is up for sale..the difference is I am in australia… would I be making a mistake if I buy it here in Australia, I do manage this curves and can see areas that need improving .. I now feel that I could be doing this with my heart and not from a business point.. lately we our membership has been dropping but I am sure it could be improved.. Please I value all opinions .. Thankyou

  23. unhappycurvesownerz on September 4th, 2008 2:51 pm

    ARE YOU NUTS— FORGET ABOUT IT —- IT WILL BE THE BIGEST MISTAKE OF YOUR LIFE AND YOU WILL SUBSTAIN LOSSES YOU CAN’T BELIEVE. CURVES WILL BE IN BANKRUP BY THE MIDDLE OF NEXT YEAR IF NOT BEFOR. MANY OF THE AUSTRAlLA HAVE JOINED THE GROUP LAWSUIT AND ARE PROCEEDING TO SUE. WALK AWAY NOW BEFOR ITS TOO LATE FOR GOD SAKE TAKE THE ADVICE RUN DON’T WALK AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!

  24. Pam Singsheim on September 4th, 2008 4:48 pm

    ready to give it away. When I bought this Curves in May 2006 it was showing a profit. It was owned by our Wisconsin Area Rep who overstated it membership, thus the reason I lose $1,000.00 per month. I know the economy and the new fitness compitition play a role in our loses. But I would love to know where are advertising dollars are going other than popcorn, cereal, and bars. What a rip. I see Nutrisystems, Weight Watchers, etc over and over and nothing for Curves. Even the Diane Magagine has her name Huge, do you see curves, yes very small. To someone new to Curves, which we all hope for, would not have a clue. BR, all I hear is BR. What worked 10 years ago, needs to be updated. Here in Wisconsin 9 out of 10 email are closing my club, giving it away, we can’t even give them away. Where is the CHRISTIAN attitude of lets help our clubs so that they survive this and get back to the actual 30 minutes workout for women that works, forget the food, internet diet all for money. It comes down to its all about money. NOT FOR ME!

  25. Another Curves Owner on September 6th, 2008 2:43 am

    I am part of the first group action law suit. Our suit has been going on for almost two years now. Make no mistake, those of you that are choosing to go this route must prepare for the long haul. Curves International (CI) will fight you at each possible juncture and try to wear you down. Nevertheless even knowing this was the path I was about to go down, I felt I no longer had any choice. Fact is CI removed all options for me by not ignoring my complaints and concerns with what happening with my business. By their very actions and lack of actions I was pushed to the financial brink of either accepting the situation the way it was or fight back knowing it would be a long fight. I choose the latter.

    My case is still pending. I am not sure when it will finally end. Knowing what I know now my decision to sue would not have changed. If anything, I would have started the process sooner if it was possible. I am confident that when my case comes to fruitarian that I will be satisfied that some justice will be served.

    Some might think, if I sue CI will make things worse for me. If that is your thinking, I ask you, “What is CI doing for you now?” I ask that question well aware of the answer. CI is doing nothing for you now, they ignore your complaints, they ignore your questions and they are not protecting your interests. CI is not interested in “business partnership” which is what a true franchise agreement should be. CI is in the business of selling franchises, selling Curves products and product promotions for other companies products though us the franchisee. I ask, ” How can Curves franchisee buy Curves Bars cheaper at the corner grocery store then through CI? Answer is obvious, CI does not see you the franchisee as a business partner. The franchisee is a customer who is obligated by contract to use approved CI vendors. By treating us as a customer CI has maximized its profits by deliberately overselling and allowing the overbuilding of Curves units. To add insult to injury, with all the market data, all of CI research and statistics, CI now blames the franchisee for the failure of their business.

    To Howard Heaven (his real first name is Howard and his middle name is Gary. He hates being called Howard which only encourages me to do so), this is all perfectly ok. To Howard, God rewards those who are righteous with riches. This is part of the problem because one cannot logically reason with someone with that arrogant mind set. Even with Howard knowing that I am suing him, CI still has not tried to improve upon its relationship with me, meaning that to this day, my complaints have not been addressed this includes the most basic ones such as obtaining monthly fees due to us by other clubs when a member transfers. If CI cannot or will not address such a basic disagreement with another club how can I expect them to make good on over saturation of the market? The simple answer is we can’t. The only viable option that we have is through legal recourse.

    With the number of lives that Howard has ruined, both financially and personally I am amazed that there are not more lawsuits against this man. Howard has bankrupted countless people and families, people have lost their homes, lost their live savings, children removed from collage and there has been one suicide. Howard dismisses this as the price to win the franchise war in the women’s fitness business. I am pleased that freely admits this, the problem is that we the franchisees are the ones who must pay this price.

    Meanwhile, as you the reader, contemplate if you choose to take legal action against Howard and CI, consider the fact that Howard owns three jet aircraft and is setting corporate policy in which a closing club now must pay him $10,000 for that privilege.

  26. Jo on September 6th, 2008 5:51 pm

    McCord’s first name is John and he is as greedy as they come, IMO. I spoke with someone that used to work there and McCord stiffed broker’s on their commissions. If he had to help with the resale he wouldn’t pay the people doing the work. He was only paying the 2% of the 8% commission.

    Also, the brokers there have many listings and you are just a number. When a club closes now you have to give McCord 30 days to try and sell it and they keep most if not all of the money.

    How does a business brokerage firm represent the sell when they are endorsed by the franchisor? It seems to me they would have more interest in the buyer since they are the ones entering the system.

    I have not had the same issues with Curves that people here have. I am sorry that people here have had problems. I know one thing, when I sell I won’t be using McCord or any “approved” Curves broker for that matter.

  27. Mitch Nici on September 14th, 2008 10:51 am

    How do I get in contact with Robert Lay??
    We have owned a Curves franchise for over a year now… Big mistake.
    Mitch

  28. ADMIN on September 14th, 2008 1:03 pm

    Curves franchisees wanting lawsuit info or who want to correspond with Robert Lay should send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com with a request to forward it to Robert. He will get in touch with you shortly.

  29. Colorado Curves Owner on September 15th, 2008 1:08 pm

    I’m set to close my doors the middle of October. I too have tried to sell my club for $1 to avoid the abandonment fee but can’t even get someone to buy it for that. I have heard that Curves has settled for less than $10,000 with some Curves owners. For those of you who have closed, have they offered you a lower settlement fee? What was it? Also, did you have to donate your basic equipment? I have a buyer that would help me pay back some of my initial investment debt and have contacted a lawyer who says according to my franchise agreement, I own the machines and therefore can sell them for my own monetary gain. When I got the closing paperwork from Curves International it says I have to donate them or destroy them. I also have the problem of my lease to deal with. Curves has been less than helpful. In fact won’t even return my calls or emails promptly but I really don’t have the time, money, or energy to put into a lawsuit.

  30. HS on September 18th, 2008 9:45 pm

    I am set to close on September 30. Curves also tried to get me to sell my curves to several time wasters. No luck once someone looks at my books and finds out they have to be in a 5 year contract. Now they are wanting they 10,000 settlement fee. They have offered to come to a mutual agreement of 5000. We dont even have that. I have not been paid in forever but have always made sure that Curves got paid. We have put 3000 in the store just to close it. They do not really care. They just want their money. Has anyone else settled? How much did you settle for. Thanks for your stories. Makes me feel a little better.

  31. HS on September 18th, 2008 9:46 pm

    Has Curves taken legal action against anyone for not paying the settlement fee?

  32. Michigan Owner on September 19th, 2008 4:11 pm

    Everything I’ve read is exactly what I am going through here in Michigan. I feel like I’m in a bad dream and hope to wake up soon. I feel like all I can do is pray, pray, pray. I too, don’t have any resources or energy to take legal action. I’m embarassed to admit how much I paid the former owner (an attorney no less) for this nightmare.

  33. donna on September 21st, 2008 12:38 am

    i feel we are all living parallel lives. I am an original owner from 7 yrs ago. the first 2.5 yrs were awesome. i could have sold then for 250k, but i loved the concept and was having fun AND making money. it’s been all down hill from then. I am starting the process of trying to close without having to pay them. other club owners have said if you e-mail and tell them you don’t have any money they will negotiate down with you. I agree that with the large amount of closures CI may file bancruptcy sooner than later. To all you smarties out there, what would happen to clubs that are still open at that time? would we be given an opportunity to just walk?? I have 2 yrs 6 months left of a ten year agreement. wonder if i can hang in that long.

  34. Jonita on September 21st, 2008 12:14 pm

    How do I get in touch with you regarding the lawsuits. Please email me

    I am a college student doing a Senior Project on why Curves are failing and we are trying to help a Curves Owner before she loses everything.

    please contact me. thanks

  35. Judy on September 25th, 2008 8:59 am

    I too am curious what will happen to the remaining owners when this whole thing implodes. Any thoughts on this??

  36. Holli on October 2nd, 2008 8:53 am

    My issue is that my area director stormed into the club and noticed that I had a treadmill as extra cardio for my members. My members are only allowed to use it when they have done their circuit rotuine. Jeff Lehman did not say a word to my two memebers or staff. These ladies had no clue what was going on. He was taking pictures of the treadmill. It is becoming fall to winter and these is just a little extra something I give my ladies. Jeff Lehman said that I should have told my ladies to go to the local Walmart and wall the inside of walmart to get extra cardio. My ladies laughed in my face!!!!! A week later I got a letter from Curves legal. Took it to my lawyer. My lawyer tried calling an entire week and left over 10 messages to get back with him. Only one phone call was returned. We have still heard nothting. I got a email from curves legal saying they would call my lawyer by the end of the day and nothing. I have put so much money into this club it is not funny.
    When everyone went to club camp did you notice that when they asked if you were a new club owner or a resale that almost every hand went up for a resale. DId you think that was odd? Did you wonder why? Plus club camp was more of a CULT. The enire time was weird. I also paid that $1000.00 and got nothing. I had to pay for bottles of water and lunch. I thought this was a my business and they are there to help you if you need it. NO SO

  37. lisa on October 2nd, 2008 7:55 pm

    Please contact me and let me know what I need to do to participate in this lawsuit.

  38. Colorado Curves Owner on October 3rd, 2008 12:26 pm

    I closed my club and am waiting to see what my settlement will be. It doesn’t really matter as I don’t have any money to give Curves International. My landlord is suing for the rest of my lease term and I’m going to be claiming bankruptcy. I offered to give Curves all the money to pay for the settlement if I could just be allowed to sell my basic 8 machines. They won’t allow this. I thought because I paid for the machines that I owned them but whatever. They are the corporation and the little guy cannot compete with that.

  39. Another frustrated Owner on October 3rd, 2008 5:14 pm

    We are so right there with you! Curves has been a HORRIBLE investment. The territories are way too close and the royalties are a pain. They basically punish you by making a minimum royalty fee. Our club comes no where close to making enough that 3 or 5 % is the 95 or 195 min fee. I am all over learning more about this lawsuit! Also…I heard from another owner, that there is a 10 year contract and you have to pay like 10,000 to curves if you want to close before that is up. Is this true?

  40. unhappycurvesownerz on October 8th, 2008 11:30 pm

    to all posts made in Oct.

    Please send an e-mail to Sean at this web site [unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com] and he will forward your mail to me so I can send you information on the lawsuit. And yes it is true that curves is trying to charge owners that cloose a 10000 closing fee. They have just stared to actually file lawsuits against owners who refuse to pay. It has gotten to be totally unbeliveable as to the steps that curves international is going through to punish it’s owners who dare to disagree with them. All curves owners need to be aware of their practices and the current group lawsuit and they all need to stand up against curves international so they can’t do this to more unsuspecting new owners who buy an unsuccsessful franchise that closed in the past.

  41. Mitch on October 12th, 2008 8:03 pm

    I just got back from curves convention in Orlando. Believe it or not they had a vote to punish clubs who do not follow all of CI`s rules and want to now impose fines.
    On top of that they want to charge all clubs a 75 dollar monitoring fee. The shocking thing is a majority of club owners voted for this.
    Amazing to me. In these tough economic times the international should be supporting all of us, not trying to hurt the club owner.

  42. ADMIN on October 13th, 2008 6:38 am

    Mitch:
    This is unreal.
    Why would franchisees support this? Was the sales pitch that good?

  43. owner on October 13th, 2008 7:29 am

    I was wondering how the convention went. This is the first year that I have not gone in about 5 years. Did they say anything about all of the Curves closing or about the 10,000 fee they are charging curves to close? Thanks

  44. owner on October 13th, 2008 7:53 am

    Has anybody paid Curves the 10000 fine

  45. unhappy on October 13th, 2008 8:39 pm

    ATTENTION UNHAPPY CURVES OWNERS

    Calling on all curves owners who have had problems with [Name withheld] and Curves International. We all know what a crook, unethical, illegal and immoral business person he is but there are some companies who don’t know who the real [Name withheld] is. He is trying to partner with a company called Silver Sneakers Fitness Program for advertising purposes. Silver Sneakers is a replicable business and if you don’t know who they are you can go to their web site by typing in Sliver Sneakers in your search box. As soon as you are done reading this post please either call them, send them a fax or an email telling them what you think of Curves International and [Name withheld]. We need to put a stop to [Name withheld] from taking advantage of the seniors who belong to Silver Sneakers. I can’t stress this enough so all of you who have joined the group lawsuit and those who wanted too but can’t afford to please act on this now before [Name withheld] takes advantage of them also.
    Thank you,
    Unhappy

  46. unhappy on October 14th, 2008 1:06 pm

    SILVER SNEAKER FITNESS PROGRAM
    [Del]
    http://www.silversneaker.com

  47. CA Ex-owner on October 16th, 2008 2:49 pm

    In response to refusing to pay the closing fee that Curves is damanding, here is what’s happening to us:

    We are another club with the same old story – we finally had to close our doors August 30. Curves will email you their Closing Procedures, an Intent to Close Facilty form, etc. (note the titles–”closing” not “abandonment”) and a demand for $10,000 so that a Mutual Release can be offered to you (their compromise for future royalties/advertising fees). We followed all their instructions to the T – except for the $10,000, which we refused to pay. They then “reconsidered” and dropped it to $8,000–we refused. They again “reconsidered” and dropped it to $6,000 and said since we don’t have the money, we could sign a promisory note with them (yeah, right). I have heard they will go down to about $2,500. However, since we emphatically refused to pay, they stopped there and referred us to the legal department.

    Next, the legal department UPS’ed us a letter saying we now owe them $42,480 for future royalties/advertising fees for the remaining 5 1/2 years of our Franchise agreement. We have faxed them back a letter saying we will not pay future royalties/advertising fees for a club which is no longer in existence, addressing the issues of their being unethical, discriminating, intimidating and harassing. We don’t know what good it will do, and the next step is they could serve us with court papers. This is all we know up to this point. If anyone has any experience as to what happens next, please share this with us!
    CA Ex-Owner

  48. Employee CI on October 17th, 2008 3:26 am

    Speaking as an employee of Curves International, the things you speak of hear are of no great surprise. This is a company run by family and lacking the expertise needed to really run a company correctly. The Heavins did a great job when the company was smaller and they could manage things on their own. I have no complaints about them personally. However, they choose to hire family and friends for positions they are unqualified for and you have all suffered the outcome of this.

    It is the most disorganized mess you’ve ever seen. There is no doubt in my mind that you will win in a court of law, if you have the time and money to keep standing up to them. Any good employees that we do get, are soon gone when they realize what a mess this place is. The people at the top are more concerned with coming up with revenue generators for corporate than for the franchisees. Not exactly the best strategy in my mind. Look to the top of the organization, the rest of us are just order takers.

    Good Luck.

  49. Deb on October 21st, 2008 4:32 pm

    Former Curves owner — D.C. suburb. One of the “older” large territories. Saturation of market, lack of quality control, lack of support are my major complaints. I was forced to let the Club go when, after years of struggle, I became ill. It would have gone under anyway. So, I would love to here of options.

    Deb

  50. unhappycurvesownerz on October 25th, 2008 12:09 am

    ex owner here is what you have in store for you. The Next step that CI will take is to have you served with papers talking you to court for the 42,480 dollares. It has to be served by a legal process server and not through the mail. You will have 28 days to respond in the district court in Waco Tx. If you do not respond you will be held in contemped of court and the award will be automaticly given to CI and they will have a judgemnt against you for that amount plus court costs. At that point they will file a judgement or lien against any personal property you have in the area you live. They can not force you to sell anything to get their lien covered but if you sell anything that is recorded in your state such as a home , car, business or anything else that is registared with the state you reside in their money will be subtracted from that sale. If you have a put up the property for collateral and have a first postion note or encumberance that that will be paid first than their judgment than any 2nd postion note you may have at that time. In most states that judgement is only good for 3 years and CI would have toi refile it at that time. But the reason they are doing this is because once they get the judgement they can write it off as a loss on their taxes. In order for them to take it as a loss on their taxes the IRS rules state that they must try to collect the out standing balance. But knowing what we know about Howard he may try to keep those leins filed every 3 year knowing that sometime in the future when you die and your estate is settled if there is any thing left over that would normally be passed on to your children it would be subject to paying off that judgement first. You do have the option of responding to the summons that was served on you and you need to respond but you will need a lawyer in order to do that. We do have lawyers in Tx that is handling this for the clubs that have gone through this but the retainer is anywhere from 1500 to 3000. At this point CI is willing to drop the case once you hire a lawyer in return for signing the release that prevents you from joining the group action lawsuit. . If you join the group action lawsuit before you are served the summons the law firm that has been representing the group action lawsuit will handle this for you at no charge. You should contact several lawyers in your state for their opinion on how to proceed at that time you are served but I can assure you their advice will be that you have to respond to that notice. If you still have questions please email Sean Kelly at unhappyfranchisee.com and he will forward it to me and I will be more that happy to go over everything with you.

  51. unhappycurvesownerz on October 25th, 2008 12:16 am

    To the employee of CI
    Thank you for your post and your encouragement on the lawsuit. It’s such a shame that Howard has done this to his business and for mthose of us that have been their since the beginnig would all agree with you on the cause of the problems CI is having. This all started in 03 when he forced out the top management of the company and replaced them with his family members.

  52. unhappycurvesownerz on October 25th, 2008 12:26 am

    ( previous post continued)
    All the owners who have signed up for the group lawsuit know we are going to win as every motion that has been brought before the court has been ruled on in favor for the litigants. Owners who would like to get prove of that can call the federal district court house in waco Texas and request all the filings that have been filed in court on this case. Heavin stated at the convention that he had won all the hearings and he tried to dismiss the lawsuit as if the lawyers would be the only ones to see money. He has lost his mind on this as it is a no brainer if you check the facts of the case.

  53. Connie on October 26th, 2008 1:41 pm

    At one time, and I think it was a link on this website, I found a list (pdf) of all Curves for Women that had either CLOSED or was sold since their opening. But I have been unable to find that list again.

    Do any of you know what I’m talking about and how I can get to it again??
    Unhappy & Disgusted & Disenchanted with Curves & the Heavins…(they are such braggers!!)

  54. ADMIN on October 26th, 2008 4:57 pm

    Here’s the link:
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/curvesexzees0408.pdf

    It’s posted on this post, along with the Curves disclosure doc.:
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/2008/06/curves-for-women-ufoc-dated-march-2008/

  55. Di on October 27th, 2008 2:51 am

    I WAS A CURVES MANAGER IN AUSTRALIA, AND I HAVE SEEN THE LADIES GET REALLY BORED WITH THIS PROGRAM. WE IN AUSTRALIA ARE NOT FAR BEHIND YOU, IN THE USA, CURVES OWNERS ARE NOW SELLING, THEY ARE SELLING AREAS EVERYWHERE NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE IF YOU LOSE ALL YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY, I THINK A DOCUMENTARY ON THIS SHOULD BE AIRED ALL OVER THE WORLD, ITS A GOOD CONCEPT BUT JUST MIS MANAGED
    I HAVE STARTED MY OWN LADIES FITNESS CENTER, I HAVE FRANCHISED IT AND ITS DOING REALLY WELL, I CARE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO BUY ONE OF MINE.
    ALL I CAN SAY IS SEND EMAILS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW : STOP BEFORE YOU BUY :

  56. Sheila on October 27th, 2008 6:17 pm

    I am in the same boat as the rest of you! They are doing the same thing with us.. we closed this past Wednesday.. the town was so small that a Curves should have approved it.. there is a prison there and the stupid city that they are included the prisoners as part of their population.. so we opened with their approval thinking we were going to do awesome and as with everyone else it started going down hill over 2 years ago.. we have been open 4 1/2 years and just can’t do it anymore.. all of our credit cards are maxed to the limits and we did our best.. I love the people I have met and friends I have made but this is ridiculous.. Curves is making their millions why aren’t we? I’m so sick of their fees and you owe us this and that.. like everyone here has said Howard is supposed to be a Christian? Why doesn’t he understand that peoples lives are getting ruined by his fees? Haven’t we had enough punishment when we have sacraficed so much? The economy should be telling him something when the franchisees and members are dropping like flies! We just got the paper saying we owe them the 10K.. we are right along with the rest of you.. if I had 10K don’t you think I’d be in business right now? DUH.. you know what really makes me mad is they get their money.. now popcorn sales, cereal sales, curves bars etc and we are all suffering.. I haven’t had a paycheck in 2 years.. I did my best.. I gave my all.. and now to find out you want 10K? Are these people for real? I will never ever in my life own nor participate in any franchise ever again.. thanks Howard for teaching us that the hard way… you are NO Christian.. you are a greedy jerk that got way over his head and doesn’t give a crap about all of us who believed in your dream.. God will get you for this! Oh and Diane don’t think we forgot about your better than everyone attitude.. you are just as guilty! You are both going to hell for all of the good hearted people you are trying to screw to the wall.. thanks for nothing!!!

  57. Sheila on October 27th, 2008 9:01 pm

    Sorry the town was so small that Curves should have NEVER approved it.. ooops!

  58. Guest on October 28th, 2008 9:24 am

    If everyone did their homework before they bought a Curves franchise, you would have discovered that the industry only has a life expectancy of 2 – 4 years depending on the location and population that you opened in. I got into Curves in 96′ and got totally out in late 99′. The writing was on the wall before I decided to invest in this and I opened 12 locations. I did Very well in all my locations but i knew that women in general get bored easily after a period of time. Also when I was involved, there weren’t tons of women only fitness business out there. Now, they’re everywhere. Whoever still owns a Curves should have had an exit plan before they bought in.

  59. Guest in CO on October 28th, 2008 6:47 pm

    Mitch,

    I am not opposed to Curves ensuring that we follow ‘the rules’ and to take some sort of action against those who are in violation of them; i.e. advertising in other franchisees territories or making payments to the other clubs when a member transfers. However, I am not sure what they can really do about it anyway. Many franchise agreements may not have some of the things Curves now wants to ‘mandates’ us. Additionally, I am not really sure if the remedy is there either if one violates the agreement.

    Regardless, what is shocking or not so shocking depending on where one is on the fence is this: the $75 fee and the overall approach of Curves.

    Why is Curves going to try to charge us $75 to monitor compliance? First off, what are they going to monitor and is that not the job of the area director in the first place? Two years ago Howard stated at convention that he was going in increase the number of Area Directors and that each club would be visited by these AD 4 times a year. Well, not sure about the rest of you out there but in the past two years my clubs were never visited by any employee of Curves. Therefore, the way I see it, Curves is not fulfilling there own promise and now they want to charge me for doing something they never did in the first place. Also, let us do the math here again shall we. At the end of 2007 there were 7100 clubs in the US and Curves is contracting (shrinking) at about 10% a year. That would leave is with about 6400 clubs by the end of 2008. At $75 for 6400 clubs that would leave Curves with revenue of $480,000. Think about this people – Do we want to pay Curves $480,000 for something they were suppose to do in the first place?

    If that does not make you red in the face, you really need to think this though. We pay Curves a franchise fee each month (this is part of that so called monitoring), an advertising fee (I never seen where this month goes each month) which should be about 15 million dollars (for the advertising fee only) from the US clubs alone. We also pay monthly licensing fees for Go Figure which is owned by Curves (whose support on the phone is worse the horrible). And we have to go through the wholly owned subsidiary “Ideas in Action”, which products I can easily find cheaper elsewhere. Don’t get me wrong – I am a capitalist. I do not mind paying a fair price for product or service. What I am opposed to is overpaying for a product or service, or getting substandard products or services. This is exactly what we are all getting from Curves these past few years and complaining by us has not fixed it.

    Howard should rather look for ways to improve upon failing business model for us franchisees’. In this manner we can generate revenue so that we can pay out franchise, license and advertising fees. Furthermore, we can then also sell more Curves products that will generate more revenue for Howard. This of course is hard work and will take time. The easier course for him is to generate revenue streams that will generate more cash for Curves immediately. We have seen this before, though product promotions (which we do the work), Howard’s book, deals with General Mills, deals with Avon and now though additional fees billed to us.

    Messages to Howard:

    There is a recession in case you don’t read the newspapers, watch TV and listen to conversations at the local dinner. Recession means less disposable income for the masses. That means to you, Howard, there is a decline in Curves membership and an escalation of clubs closing. From your own documentation, Howard, 2007 alone saw a closure rate of 8.5% in the US alone while the stock market INCREASED in value by almost 8%. This year’s closure rate is going to be appalling if we use this year’s loss of 33% of the market as an indicator to the health of our economy. I am sure you saw some of the numbers already, please don’t insult our intelligence by ‘spinning’ the facts.

    Rather than focus on generating more revenue streams focus on refining the business model and help your franchisees weather the current economic storm that we are facing. Surly you can afford this given that you have made in excess of 60 million dollars in 2005 along.

    Finally remember this Howard: “Pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered”

    I will see in you court.

  60. Connie on October 29th, 2008 8:19 am

    To Guest in CO–
    Do I have your permission to post your message on the Yahoo Curves Owners group and the Yahoo FA group also? Not the message to “Howard”…..only the first part about the revenue he will collect from the $75 monitering fee, etc.
    Thanks.

  61. Guest in CO on October 29th, 2008 11:55 am

    Connie,

    If you repost on there, repost up to, but not including the parts:

    “Finally remember this Howard: “Pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered”
    I will see in you court.”

    The prior messages are rather important in my opinon.

  62. unhappy curves owner on November 18th, 2008 6:11 pm

    So it seems there are an amazing amount of people that have lost everything emotionally and financially because of CI. there smart equiptment is junk It does not work properly . This was another scam to get money from owners. All they do is force owners to buy more and more products. How many of you are stuck with products you cant sell. how many have dying curves on every corner . They play onwners against one another. This was supposed to be a christian company. Thats a a sick joke.They dont stand behind owners and they lie like rugs. My experience has been awful like so many others. I have been told judgement day is near with all the lawsuits pending CI will be bankrupt also. Then justise will prevail. Those of us that got stuck with this company will also prevail a supreme courts will also be involved and restitution will begin possible jail time. I have been researching this for a while now. UN fortunatly their are still believers of this cult. They need to open their eyes and listen add up how much they have lost and come aboard with the majority, pass these writings on to every curve owner you know and see what happens. You know what they say in america majority rules Curves your done. This is not a real franchise. The real ones follow there own rules, It is how good businesses are made and then they are around for ever> CI are theieves and all that associate with them all in coporate should have to anwser as well. I saw diane on the news last week she looked alittle stressed, Ask yourself how much are you now in debt, How has business practises changed Do franchisor stand up for what is right or do they only care how much money they can make from you. Will they sell to anyone that breathes.Look around you are they closing by the dozens. If the anwser is yes then join us in this good fight and get your money back from this thief. we will prevail unhappy about Curves INternational

  63. mandy on November 19th, 2008 2:14 pm

    I have been a curves fitness rep for six years working with my Mom there for four years now . Come to find is for sale and the owner is offering us to take over the club and make payments later on if we can get more members . I love Love ehat I do at curves and I feel really wishy washy my parents would be buying with funds they survive on and well the other catch is all the other coworkers would have to be let go and if we dont go for it we are out of a job ! Its not fair to the faithfull hard working employees like my Mom and I who found a job they rock at and now what are we going to do .What can be done for those like my Mom and I ? Anything I have two kids one in diapers and i enjoy the extra money i earn even though its only $100.00 it helps us get by. This sucks ! I’m very uneasy about this I dont feel confident about the purchase of curves by my loving Parents! As much as it has always been my dream to have my own Curves from what i’ve read here sounds like a bad dream a nightmare! I hope my Mom and I can find another Job we both enjoy. Thanks Mandy

  64. franchisee on November 19th, 2008 4:42 pm

    Is anyone aware of how many franchises are open now? and has anything else been said by corporate of the $75 fee??

  65. unhappy curves owner on November 20th, 2008 9:46 am

    Mandy, If you love your parents, DO NOT let them invest in this scam, It will be a giant loser. That is why they are giving it to you so they can get out of all those fees they dont tell you about. Find another job.Walk away for your babys sake and for your parents.

  66. unhappy on November 20th, 2008 1:45 pm

    Mandy,
    You sound like a sweet young person and I hope and prey for you. But Mandy if you and your mother end up buying that curves not even the pope could pray enough to save you from the biggest mistake of you life. don’t walk away RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. My advice would be to look at a pet grooming business as they seem to be very strong and profitable which your curves won’t be. Good luck and let us know how things work out Mandy.

  67. unhappy on November 23rd, 2008 1:28 pm

    THERE ARE SOME HERE ON THIS SITE THAT DON’T BELIEVE EVERYTHING IS THAT BAD WITH CURVES. WELL FOLKS IT IS AND FOR THOSE WHO WOULD QUESTION THAT WHY DON’T YOU PROVE IT TO YOUR SELF BY DOING THE RESEARCH ON THE LAWSUIT. HERE IS WHO YOU NEED TO CONTACT.

    FEDERAL COURT
    U.S. CLERK OFFICE
    800 FRANKLIN ROOM 800
    WACO TX. 76701
    254-750-1501
    CASE OR DOC # 07′ CV’ 048

    YOU CAN CALL AND REQUEST ALL DOCUMENTS REGARDING THE CASE AND PROVE TO YOUR SELF THAT HEAVIN IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH TO THE CURVES OWNERS. SEE YOU IN COURT REAL SOON HEAVIN

  68. debbie on November 24th, 2008 9:32 pm

    I purchase 2 curves a year ago december. I was scammed by the prior owner and mccord brokers! I wanted to purchase just one of the curves, but the prior owner and mccord made me buy the 2. They made the member numbers look like the clubs were making money. In july 08 I had to close one of my curves, since it was costing us $3000 per month out of our personal monies. Curves waived the 10k fee for me. However with all the money i pay out, legal won’t help us anyway with getting out of lease or help with information to go after the rat that lied to me! The prior owner states he is a Christian, we trusted him since he lives in my neighborhood and attends the same church! I will never trust anyone again. I also found out that mccord broker is not licence in most states that requires real estate licences, he is making commission iilegally! I feel for most of you, i love the curves concept–but i don’t like the situation it has placed on my family. We have lost a lot of money purchasing curves. We are people who goes along with the Bible and sueing is not an option for us. I just pray daily that we will make it through this mess and that God will bless us. I know I can be a blessing to the members at the club! I will keep you all in thought and pray that God will bless all of you.

  69. Sheila on November 25th, 2008 2:28 pm

    Hi Debbie.. I was just curious how and why they let you out of paying the 10K for the first club? We still haven’t figured anything out and I know they are going to put a lien on us for that fee.. but we can’t afford to send them the machines and I’m trying to find another Curves that wants them.. this bites! We just don’t know what to do.. like I said if I had 10K in the bank don’t ya think I would still be open? DUH.. so much for understanding our economy at this time.. thanks for being the great “Christians” they call themselves.. I’m still angry and depressed about it.. we just don’t know what to do or where to turn.. thank you for all your help!

  70. unhappy on December 12th, 2008 10:41 am

    Hi Debbie,
    You are not the first to be taken by McCords and in all likely hood won’t be the last. I’m sorry to read about you problems with Curves but as you know by finding and reading these sites you are not alone. Any one who is selling a curves franchise should be very carefull picking a broker as McCords is not the only crooked one out there that is selling curves franchises. Most repticable brookers won’t even list curves franchises anymore. It’s such a shame that this is what it has come to and the only way to really set things straight is through the group action lawsuit. PAY ATTENTION OWNERS AND JOIN THE LAWSUIT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.

  71. Dawne Dowell on December 13th, 2008 10:24 am

    My story is unfortunate also. I had to file Chapter 7 -I closed one club this summer but was stuck in a lease at the second location for another 2 years. I was down to 65 members – faithful but could not increase it due to economy and I had a captured audience in a high rise. I had been told by Curves and McCOrd that they would not let someone buy it yet they told me to get rid of it and move the other one exactly 7 months earlier. So I closed the one by paying them and the other by filing bankruptcy. In my credit report I had not missed or had a late payment in 14.7 years. I went through chemo, radiation and surgery this year and still paid my bills. The high rise I am in had two major customers Bellsouth and CSX. AT&T bought bell south and I lost 109 members in 10 days due to layoffs, transfers and fear. It happened 8 months after I opened so the rest quit in Janurary. Then in Janurary the second blow came when CSX put in their own gym at 15 a month. I lost 68 that week – they all had been members exactly 1 year – not much I could do about that. One thing people don;t realize is that this CLUB is 1.3 miles from the resale I bought that I had been a member of. She had 1000 members at one time and had barely over 100 when I bought it but I thought I could get them back – not knowing that when a club is that bad (previous owner fought Curves International over alot of things) that you never recover from that kind of history. The second CLub was in my territory and I was really hoping to get a break on the fee but they said it was a new territory because of the bridge between them (you could see the clubs from each other). The second club never took off and I had to wok hard to keep getting new members in a downtown environment – I was down to 48 members with 3700 rent for 18 months. I also had the unfortunate issue of my first club was flooded twice and had to rebuild twice in 2 weeks. The area director told me to do the right thing and every member who had not been in in 30 days or we could not get ahold of should be cancelled since legally I had broken the agreeement for being closed 15 days total in a 1 year period. I rebuilt in record time – all new carpet, paint, computer’s, extreme professional cleaning etc. When I cancelled all the members and got under 80 – I never recovered – I was operating at a 2500 loss each month from then on until I closed the next June. I still had 3 more months on the lease but I left with no bills. When I was rebuilding the second time – I was called on my cell and told to just move it and close the downtown own. (I quote ‘ We never thouht the downtown one in that city would make it?” They let me purchase alot of extra equipement as I was under the impression they thought it was a good idea. When I quoted the executive to my area director I was called back and told that comment was from a friend not a Curves International representative. I did not know that person was my friend….The downtown’s one losses were more that 3500 a month for 24 months and with all the medical expenses this year – I gave up. It kills me that even though I only ended up with two creditors (Curves and lease holder) I had to file Chapter 7 to get rid of them as Curves now is saying I abandoned it….. I am so glad I did not go to the SMART I would have lost even more. They called me and tried to get me to go to SMART for 8 weeks. I was harrassed at the 2007 convention and that is a book in itself. Well my life is starting over. 320000 spent in 3.5 years with nothing to show but a Bankrupcy – as everything belongs to the trustee now. It was a dream that failed.

  72. Sheila on December 15th, 2008 8:08 pm

    Hi Dawn,
    I am so sorry to hear about your loss and your health.. I hope at least your health is better.. bless your heart for trying so hard.. I am also glad that I didn’t do the SMART equipment.. we could never afford it.. the town was so small I had no real competitors till another gym came in and was 29 a month when we were 34.. it was a 24 hour gym and that got the attention of some members… whatever.. I’m glad we are done with all the bs but I’m worried what’s coming next from Curves Int’l… did you get out of paying that 10K fee? What did you do with your equipment? We haven’t done anything as we have no idea what to do.. we have no money to send it back to them and my only hope is to give it to another Curves but most of them are already full with equipment.. and I agree.. my dream failed miserably and now I’m worried what’s next.. any advice you could give me I would appreciate.. thank you! I hope you have a very healthy new year hun! Happy Holidays!

  73. unhappy on January 7th, 2009 8:32 pm

    To all Curves Owners,

    It is time we take our complaints about Curves to another level. All owners who are posting here should file a complaint with the BBB in their area and file a complaint with the Attorney General of their state. Than they need to go to the Federal Trade Commission web site and file a complaint with that federal agency also. Here is the link for the FTC http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/consumer.shtm. Just maybe Howie will get the message that it is time to change the way he operates his business.

  74. Dawne Dowell on January 7th, 2009 10:09 pm

    For those that read my story above. Yes I paid Curves to close one and asked to close the other one for the same fee 14 days later. They said I could not close at that fee I must sale it. Yet In January John McCord told me Curves would not let anyone buy it. In fact I was told that more than once. So I was truly stuck with it. My equipment belongs to the trustee and 11 from the previous club was donated. I finally go to court next week and can you belive it – since I have a job I have to buy all my personal property back (to give to Curves) down to my tooth brush and since I had 14000 in medical expenses over what insurance paid and busines loss I was to get a tax return and the bankruptcy court is siezing that for 2008 – so a 59000 business loss is an asset the next year when you file ….
    The only good thing is I am cancer free….just not free of giving CI $ yet

  75. unhappy on January 7th, 2009 11:09 pm

    Dawne.

    I was truly touched by you story and am saddened by what you have had to go through with your curves experience. You are not alone as many of us have had similar experience’s and for a lot of owners the nightmare is not over yet. It is nice to hear that you are cancer free and god bless you and your family. When I read or hear of nightmares such as these I often think back to a play I saw on broadway called Annie. There is a song that goes through my mind which I believe the tytle is “The Sun Will Come Out Tomarrow”. In our case it may not be tomarrow but it will come out and I truly believe it will it will be sooner that later. Thank you for your post Dawne and again God Bless you.

  76. Lauren on January 11th, 2009 12:18 am

    I would like to get information on a class action lawsuit if possible. Thank you.

  77. Bo on January 16th, 2009 10:51 pm

    Please contact me and my wife. We have lost over $150,000 actual money and lost the opportunity for another $150K. We would like to know what we can do to help the group effort.

  78. ADMIN on January 19th, 2009 12:12 pm

    Curves franchise owners:
    What do you think of Curves partnering with the aggressively anti-gay American Family Association (AFA)?
    Is this a good use of advertising dollars, or is it playing with fire? Comments encouraged here:
    http://www.franchisepick.com/curves-for-women-anti-gay/

  79. ADMIN on January 21st, 2009 12:24 pm

    Regarding the Curves promotional partnership with the anti-gay American Family Association, Becky Frusher, Director, Corporate Communications, Curves International, Inc. has posted her response here:

    http://www.franchisepick.com/curves-for-women-anti-gay/

  80. unhappy on January 25th, 2009 10:48 pm

    Important message to all Curves owners.
    There is another site that all current owners of a curves franchise needs to be aware of. The site was set up by Curves using our advertising dollars so we all need to use it. It’s intent is to allow owners to converse with other owners and to share ideas. It is a good site if you are looking for ideas on how to save your club or just have questions for other owners. Here is the link http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/curvesowners/?v=1&t=search&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=group&slk=1

    Please go there to check it out and voice your opinion on the current posts and voice your concerns. This site is strictly for owners.

  81. unhappy on January 25th, 2009 11:21 pm

    To all past and present curves owners

    It is time for all past and present owners of Curves franchises to stand up and file complaints against Curves International and Gary Howard Heavin. I’m sure we can all agree that this company is in serious trouble with all the club closures and while the economy certainly has hurt our business the main set back is how the company is being run into the ground by Gary Heavin and his co-hearts. It should be obvious to all owners that the only way this will change is if we take action as a group. Some owners have been talking about a boycott of the monthly franchise and advertising fees that we pay. While that will certainly get their attention if enough of us follow through we can accomplish it even faster if we all file complaints with the BBB in Waco, TX, the BBB in your area, the Attorney General of your state, the Attorney General of the state of TX. and the Federal Trade Commission. I have included web site addresses where you can go to file such a complaint. Please do so ASAP and lets see how Howie handles the complaints.

    http://www.bbb.org/

    http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c

    http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml

  82. Wipedout on January 29th, 2009 12:56 pm

    Another sad Curves story

    http://www.mykawartha.com/news/article/36701

  83. ADMIN on January 30th, 2009 7:15 am

    The story Wipedout linked to above is sad but very interesting.

    The couple who owned the Curves lost $100K. They tried to sell for a year, then closed. They brought a potential buyer to Curves and claim Curves cut them out of the loop. Curves has the right to sell the location now, not the franchisees.

    Members claim the franchisees spent their prepaid fees and even cashed checks after they had closed. The franchisees blame CI for not allowing them to sell and thereby repay their members.

    Are the franchisees any more ethical than the franchisor? They have no qualms about dumping their loser business on the next sucker, do they? And if they cashed membership fee checks AFTER they closed, do you think they’d repay members if they got, say, $20K for their store? I doubt it.

    Seems like CI has no problem selling a failed location that maxxed at 120 members without even looking into the viability of the location. Seems like a swell bunch of folks all around.

  84. unhappy on January 30th, 2009 8:03 pm

    Listen there are bad apples on every grocery store shelf and it’s a shame but from my experence most of the curves franchise owners are a decent group of people.. Two wrongs don’t make a right and if this is true shame on both the franchisor and the franchisee. In this case without knowing the all circumstances I would still give the franchisee the benifit of doubt but I certainly wouldn’t believe anything the franchisor says as I know Howie can’t be trusted. His actions and words have proved that time and time again.

  85. Dawne Dowell on January 31st, 2009 10:20 am

    My Curves (two of them had a total ot under 100 members) since Curves told me to cancel anyone who had not been in that I could not get ahold of due to the flooding. I was closed 6 and 7 days total. Curves and MCCORD said they would not approve any buyers – but they would only let me pay to close one the other one which they absolutely said “we never thought this one would work” – 14 days after I closed one they claimed I only had the option of selling the one they had told me 6 months earlier they would not approve a buyer. They gave me no choice but to file bankruptcy. It’s really sad. 8 Curves in our area have closed. The rest are in trouble……They have not even had a good Januray – I am so glad I am done. Once I am done paying out required Chapter 7 assets to the courts – CI can no longer get any of my $. YEA there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it is not a train.

  86. unhappy on February 1st, 2009 11:46 pm

    PAST AND PRESENT OWNERS,
    Don’t forget to send your complaint letters to the BBB in your area as well as waco Tx. and your states attorney general as well as TX. and the FTC. Here are the links that you can go to to file the complaints.

    http://www.bbb.org/

    http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c

    http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml

  87. Carrie on February 10th, 2009 4:09 pm

    Could someone answer this for me. Should I or should I not pay the closing fee they are demanding. I am now down to $2,500 to settle the closing of my Curves. I do not have the money to send them and if I did I do not want to give them one more penny. I am $85,000 in debt which I will be paying on until I’m very old (hopefully I live!). I was advised to join a class action suit by a business owner friend. Can someone help that has been through this? Thanks

  88. CA ex-owner on February 10th, 2009 11:20 pm

    I would say not to send them another cent! But you should decide for yourself after reading this.

    We closed our club in August. Curves demanded $10,000. We refused and they lowered it several times (down to $6,000) and we still refused.

    Next legal sent us a letter demanding over $42,000 for future franchise fees and future advertising. We sent a letter refusing to pay that. Look above and read: CA Ex-owner on October 16th, 2008 for more details – that’s our story. Then look above at the answer of what could happen: unhappycurvesownerz on October 25th, 2008. (He is an extremely informed person on this subject)

    So far, we have not heard back from them. It’s been since October that we sent our last letter to them and it’s only been 4 months, so we don’t know what, if anything, will happen. We are hoping that is the end of that, as we are just like everyone else – we are in debt for a huge amount of money that we will be paying off for a very long time! Read the many stories above and become familiar on what options you have such as the group action lawsuit. Know that you are not alone!

  89. unhappy on February 12th, 2009 11:10 am

    Carrie,
    That charge for closing will not hold up in Tx court so why would you pay it? They are just trying to get more money from you. It is just greed on their part? I wouldn’t send them a dime not one dime. Also the suit is a group action not class action and your friend is right you should join and you should also send complaint letters to the BBB, and the attorney general of your state as well as TX. Also send a complaint to the federal trade commission. If you will look at the previously posts it gives you the info you need to file. Please do this at once.

  90. Betty Priest on February 24th, 2009 1:52 pm

    I closed my Curves Dec. 30, 2009. Curves reduced the closing fee to $3000 and then in Jan. they reduced it to $2000. I told them I did not have the money to pay them. I not working and I had surgery on Jan. 19. I now have received a legal paper from them that I have to pay them over $28000 in franchise fee and advertising fees. Please forward this to Robert Lay and unhappycurvesownerz
    Thanks

  91. Betty Priest on March 3rd, 2009 1:51 pm

    I would like to find out what the cost is to join the group action lawsuit. Also I would like to get in contact with Robert Lay, how can I do this.

  92. Mandy on March 3rd, 2009 2:34 pm

    Hi my parents and i took your advise and did not except the curves franchise being offered to us for free. Now the sad part it did sale and now after six years of being a great worker i’m being told my hours there are up for grabs to all the employees and same has happend to my Mom . Now what ? My Mom really got hit hard her hours taken that she spends on health care . Is there anything that can help us? My Mom does not have a whole lot of work exspierience has been a very reliable curves rep all the way around . Anyways Curves hurts lots of folks thought maybe we could get some advise . Be well,Mandy

  93. unhappy but getting happy on March 5th, 2009 11:40 am

    Betty, Send your email address and phone number to Sean at this site and he will forward it to me. asap so I can explain the options you have. thanks

  94. unhappy but getting happy on March 5th, 2009 11:44 am

    Mandy,
    I’m so sorry to hear about you and your mothers problem but I do believe you made a good decision not to take the curves club on as the new owners will in all liklyhood fail. I need to know more about your situation so please send Sean an e-mail at this site with your phone number and he will forward it to me.

  95. ADMIN on March 5th, 2009 12:18 pm

    Send email forward requests to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com

  96. Wipedout on March 22nd, 2009 1:46 am

    Another sad story of a failed Curves club. January 2007 is the same month that our Curves took a serious nosedive, too. We lost nearly 100 members that month and never recovered.

    http://www.milannews.com/stories/031909/loc_20090319005.shtml

  97. Dennis Krieger on March 24th, 2009 12:19 pm

    So many sad stories, and sadder because some of them were preventable. The Curves story just points out the need to perform one’s due diligence, or what’s called “validation” in the industry.
    My website offers resources including questions to ask before buying a franchise.
    Looking at a new business is always exciting. However, one should never fall prey to “top franchise listings” or similar hype. And most importantly, as in all negotiations, one must be able to walk away if the deal just doesn’t add up.
    Dennis Krieger

  98. Wipedout on March 27th, 2009 12:54 am

    Here’s a 400-member Curves that couldn’t stay afloat during this Great Recession . . .

    http://www.azcentral.com/community/ahwatukee/articles/2009/03/26/20090326ar-curves0325.html#comments

  99. Wipedout on March 29th, 2009 10:52 pm

    Go to McCord Business Brokers and see how few listings they currently have of Curves for Sale.

    For example, the For Sale by Owner listings for Florida used to fill the whole screen in February. Today there’s only a handful left.

  100. Melissa Revels on March 30th, 2009 9:48 pm

    March 30, 2009
    I am evidently getting ready to face my real nightmares, concerning my closing of my Curves. I am at the threat stage with them and have not agreed to any amount yet. Mostly because I have nothing left. I am closing in two weeks. I gave it all of my money and my best shot the past six years. I do not believe Curves is the only blame, I am sure the failing economy didn’t help. I am just confused about whether or not to agree to a settlement with them or not. I am hearing they will still sue me even if we agree to an amount. I wish I had some answers, even though I have no money left to give anyone. I really don’t know what to do next. Also there is another club in my small town, just six miles down the road, so at least my members have someplace to go if they choose so. How can they hurt so many people financially and get away with it? All we wanted was to work hard and make a decent living, totally impossible with two clubs in our area!! We haven’t even broken even in three years. I hope I find some answers soon.

  101. unhappy but getting happy on March 31st, 2009 9:10 pm

    Melissa,

    Please send ADMIN (unhappyfranchisee[at] gmail.com) an email with your email address and phone number and I will contact you asap. I have helped over 800 owners get through this process and you are not alone. Do not pay curves any money or sign anything before you talk to me. Unhappy

  102. Sheila on April 1st, 2009 8:12 pm

    Dear Unhappy..
    I need some help with Curves trying to collect money also.. what do I do? Please help.. we haven’t been contacted since the first threat of 10K.. we didn’t respond cause we are lost on what to do.. thank you for any information you can give me!

  103. ... on April 1st, 2009 8:41 pm

    I would offer what you can pay just to get it over with. That is what we did. I was just ready to have it done and over with. They will probably take it if they are hurting enough!

  104. unhappy on April 1st, 2009 9:03 pm

    Sheila,
    Again send Sean at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com an email with your phone numberasking him to forward it to me and I will be more than happy to call an explain what your rights are and how to proceed.

  105. Wipedout on April 2nd, 2009 1:55 am

    Here’s a Curves tale that sounds promising, until we find out the “Health Challenge” mentioned in the article has added a whopping TEN MEMBERS to this Curves, and membership is now at 230 since it first opened in 2005.

    Who can make a profit – or break even – with only 230 members?

    http://www.auroranewsregister.com/Stories/HealthChallengehelpsboostnumbersforexercise/tabid/515/Default.aspx

  106. unhappy on April 2nd, 2009 1:33 pm

    “..I would offer what you can pay just to get it over with. That is what we did. I was just ready to have it done and over with. They will probably take it if they are hurting enough!”

    I couldn’t help but respond to this outragous post which of course wasn’t signed. ARE YOU NUTS OR FROM CORPORATE. Your advise is not only looney but an insult to the many owners who have been ripped offf by Howie. Don’t pay them a thing, not one dime, do you hear me NOT ONE Dime. You don’t owe them anything in fact they owe you for their deseptive, illegal, immoral, and unethical business tactics. Sue Sue and Sue them again for all they are worth. Send in complaints to the following:

    http://www.bbb.org/

    http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c

    http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml

  107. Alan on April 2nd, 2009 2:11 pm

    I’m not an owner, but rather a member, of 2 gyms right now, 24 Hour and a local club closer to my house. There is a Curves in the neighborhood.

    Somewhere in CA, I think in the Bay Area, some fellow sued a women’s only gym for denying him membership, discrimination, and he won.

    I thought that was right, because males can also benefit from the program, the 30-minute or so circuit type program. They have tried to replicate this in 24, but due to space limitations, usually, it gets kind of lost among the other equipment.

    But here’s the main point: Open up to males and the membership will soar. It could still maybe be women during certain hours and men certain other hours, but men and women have no trouble mixing in 24 or any other club I’ve seen, Gold’s, Bally’s, LA Fitness, LA Workout, and so forth.

    If this CEO Heavrin you all are writing about has any sense, which he apparently has not, he will go co-ed and keep his franchisees in the black.

  108. ... on April 2nd, 2009 5:09 pm

    I did not sign my name because I do not want Curves coming back to haunt me. The contract that we signed when we opened Curves has everything and the kitchen sink. When I decided to close my Curves I did not realize that there was going to be a fee because I had not been open for five years. I kept offering a much lower settlement fee and finally they accepted. I think the concept of Curves is great and all of you that opened one at one time did too. You can bash my blog all you want but I am done with closing my Curves now and never had any debt along with it. I still work out at my local Curves and enjoy it. Good luck with your law suite.

  109. unhappy but getting happy on April 2nd, 2009 6:30 pm

    I’m sorry if I offended you but it really sounded like you were a CI plant. I don’t blame you at all knowing as much as I do about Howie and how vindictive he is and has been. But just because you paid the closing fee don’t think you are out of the woods yet. There have been many posts from owners who did just what you did only to end up 6 to 8 months latter being sent a notice that they owed more money for closing. They even had signed a release that Curves demands that you sign when you close. That release is very one sided. It only prevents you the owner from suing Curves International not from Curves suing you. If you will check the different post on this site and the related sites you will see that this is the truth and that it is happening more often than not.
    i’m g;ad to hear that you are still working out at Curves as we all know the benefits and believe in the concept. I wish you all the happyness and success with any endevor that your path in life takes and I’m sorry that you were taken as so many others have been by Howie. God Bles you and your family.

  110. unhappy but getting happy on April 2nd, 2009 7:00 pm

    Alan,
    Thank you for taking time to read all of our sad posts and for offering your input. Curves has been sued for discrimination in several states when it first opened in the late 90′s. I am not sure which states but I do know they paid a large settlement and lost the ablity to finance through SBA. That is why they changed their name from Curves For Women to just plain Curves around 2000. While I personnaly don’t think accepting men is the anwser some clubs back east are now accepting men and have even gone to 24 hour access. It is too early to see if the results are going to be worth it but will just have to see how it works out. Unfortunatly Howie has no common sense or for that matter any sense as you can tell from all the posts. You have a great day and again thank you for taking the time to read the posts . God Bless

  111. Owner on April 2nd, 2009 7:26 pm

    In response to Allan. I am from the Bay Area. The suit was not against Curves. Men are allowed to join and in fact they have. But the system is specifically designed for the female body. The founders of Curves originated with co-ed and it didn’t fly.

  112. Another Not Cut Out on April 3rd, 2009 11:54 am

    This just in…Wellnes memberships that pay the Club owner $4.00 per visit, CI has just announced that they will charge each Club $1.00 per wellness member per month. CI claims that there are currently 200,000 wellness members country wide…nice raise for GH.

  113. unhappy but getting happy on April 6th, 2009 8:49 pm

    This is so typical of Howie and the way he run his business. Once againg the frachisee takes it in the you know what. And believe me its not a pleasent experence.

  114. Another Not Cut Out on April 7th, 2009 10:08 am

    Just pulled the key out of my Club doors for the last time…sold every piece of equipment except Smart…Can’t get rid of it due to clauses in software contract staing that they have to test every piece, take apart, set up at new location for up front fees plus $100.00 an hour to do all this. So a Club that can not afford the $7000.00 plus to buy direct, can not take advantage of a big savings because MYTRAC will not honor warrenties or provide software support because they where not paid the couple of thousand more they would have made on the deal.

    LOL what an experience…Thank God I have a good lawyer!

  115. Cori on April 7th, 2009 11:51 am

    Hey–Another Not Cut Out–I like your attitude. Obviously having the Smart Equipment was not enough to bring the members in to join in mega numbers. I opted not to get it and glad I didn’t……just more debt when I have to close my doors. I believe in the Curves concept, but I curse the day I ever heard of Gary Heavin and decided to by a Curves franchise.
    In what state are you located? Good Luck. And I hope Gary has to answer to his God about all the lives he has ruined.

  116. Alan on April 7th, 2009 3:30 pm

    Hey, it was very interesting to learn about the history of Curves in this thread. As I noted, I’m a member, not of Curves, but of 24 Hour Fitness and a local club, called oddly enough 2597 (the address), here in Southern California.

    But I would join Curves if I knew it accepted men, as someone said above.

    But regardless of that, here’s another idea that most of you probably already saw, and this will be done whether any of your entrepreneurs do it or not, and it’s only a matter of time: a hybrid workout/brain gym.

    Check out the recent article in Wall Street Journal http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123819562420161343.html

    Here’s one approach: You have a little bank of computers set to go online. As motivation for the members, once they finish their workout circuit, they get 1/2 or 1 hour on the computer, to check their email, do whatever.

    Yes, a lot of people can do this at home. But guess what…a lot of people can’t. That’s why public libraries are so full these days: people going online at the only place they have access.

    Meanwhile, their getting more fit on the circuit.

    This is just one idea of combining brain work with physical work. Don’t worry, someone’s going to do it soon, if they haven’t already. So do it!

    Another idea: A workshop combined with the gym. Few people these days have the space and/or funds to get done at home what they can do in a shared workshop. Yes, Home Depot et al. do offer some rudiments of this, but no one yet, to my knowledge, has put both physical fitness and handiness together yet. There is a tool club in the Bay Area, but that’s expensive tools, like lasers. Just a few tools to get household and automobile jobs done would do it for most.

    What a come on for the average woman AND man!

  117. unhappy but getting happy on April 7th, 2009 9:40 pm

    To all Curves Owners,

    I just heard the most out landish bull crap about Curves International and it is very important that we as owners stand up and be counted and express our opinion so that we can try to prevent this from happening. You maybe wondering what is it and I will tell you right now. There is an organization that is called the American Association of Franchisees & Dealers (AAFD). It is supposed to be a pro-franchisee advocacy group. However, it is obvious that this is not the case as Sean Kelly has been an outspoken critic of the way they “sell” their fair franchising awards to companies that want to offset & dismiss online criticism. Furthermore, owners, this group is giving an award as AAFD’s Franchisor of the Year to Curves International on April 30 of this year in San Antonio, TX. Unhappyfranchisee.com has started a new page to post our feeling on this at
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-aafd-names-curves-franchisor-of-the-year/ . You can go there to read all about it but we must do more than post there on that site. We all need to write e-mails to AAFD Chairman Robert Purvin informing him of the dishonest and unethical business practices used by Curves International. His e-mail is rpurvin@AAFD.org . Please e-mail him at once telling him about how you feel about Gary Howard Heavin and his dishonest, unethical and immoral business practices so we can put a stop to this ASAP.

  118. ADMIN on April 7th, 2009 11:13 pm

    As your emailed complaints will undoubtedly be disregarded, please also copy (CC) them to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com and I will publish them here using initials only.

    But be advised… complaint emails sent to AAFD regarding Cuppy’s were forwarded to the franchisor. If you would like to post an open letter to the AAFD, feel free to post it at http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-aafd-names-curves-franchisor-of-the-year/ or email it to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com.

  119. ADMIN on April 8th, 2009 11:39 am

    Curves is named AAFD’s Total Quality Franchising Franchisor of the Year.
    Comments invited:
    http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/curves-is-franchisor-of-year-say-what/

  120. Wipedout on April 8th, 2009 11:19 pm

    AAFD = All Available Finances Drained

  121. ADMIN on April 9th, 2009 12:06 pm

    Wiped Out: Funny :) (unfortunately)

    New post on failure fee at FranchisePick.com:
    Curves International: You Failed? Pay up!
    http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/curves-international-you-failed-pay-up/
    Comments invited

    ALSO: Is anyone involved with the Curves Independent Franchisee Association? CI is reportedly giving the Assoc. significant support.

    Are you optimistic that the IndFA can bring about positive changes?

    Why or why not?

  122. Betty on April 12th, 2009 10:54 pm

    I closed my Curves at the end of Dec. I have a oblique machine for sale. I’m asking $300 and you pay for delivery or pick up. Location is Colon MI. My email is dbpriest@peoplepc.com

  123. guest on April 20th, 2009 10:25 pm

    Does anyone know if Mr Heavin is trying to correct these on going issues? Please give me your thoughts.

  124. Wipedout on April 20th, 2009 11:31 pm

    Heavin is trying to avoid insolvency. The first wave of group-action lawsuits against Curves is likely heading to trial in the coming months. And there’s a second wave after that.

  125. unhappy on April 21st, 2009 1:01 am

    It doesn’t appear that Howie has even addressed the issues and problems that are causing the unrest with the franchisee’s. In fact he has blamed the owners for all the closings and the high default rate on SBA loans.
    ( web site below) It has been rumored that all he has done is to have his lawyers rewrite the contracts to include the closing fee of 10,000 dollars and to have situations in the wording so that an owner could never sue. I don’t believe that any owner has seen the new franchise agreement as of yet but there are many 5 year contracts coming due very soon. Many owners feel that even more clubs will close because not many owners will sign such an agreement. Furthermore many owners are concerned that it will make them harder to sell than they already are.

    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-gary-heavin-blames-greedy-3rd-party-resellers-for-franchise-failures/

    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/

  126. guest on April 22nd, 2009 7:42 pm

    Does anyone know how the Curves outside the United States are doing? Are they having the same problems in their countries?

  127. unhappy on April 22nd, 2009 8:40 pm

    yes they are having the same problems over seas as we are in the states. Howie does not show any special treatment to any of the clubs. He is running them all into the ground because of his unethical, immoral, dishonest business practices. His ego and pinchant for hirering family members has led to the down fall of Curves.. Howie day in court is coming soon and he will have to pay up for the hundreds of owners he has ripped off………..

  128. Curves Owner2 on April 24th, 2009 2:56 pm

    Wipedout,

    What is the second lawsuit? Something resales can get in on?

  129. ADMIN on April 28th, 2009 6:44 pm


  130. Dennis Krieger on April 30th, 2009 1:02 pm

    The Curves story just points out what has been know by many about franchising for years. A franchise is not guaranteed to succeed. First one has to be in the right franchise. What’s that? Well, one that first and foremost fits your personality and then one with a proven business concept in the area it will serve, and last, a franchise system that is honorable, successful, financialy stable, and focused on one primary objective: making their franchisees successful. When the franchisee is successful, the franchisor will be too.

  131. unhappy but getting happy on April 30th, 2009 5:53 pm

    Dennis
    I couldn’t agree with you more. The main objective of all successfull franchisor’s is to make sure the franchisee’s are successfull. In return the franchisor will even be more so but with curves since 2003 the home ofice has not cared about the franchisee. Just how much Howie can line his pockets with. What a shame. He always wanted to be in the record books and Howie will get there for being the worst womens franchise around and world wide. He will certainly be remembered for a long time and once he is done in the courts he will certainly be in the record books. but someday he will be acountable to ST. Peter and I just wish I could be there to see the look in his eyes whin he is sent to he——.

  132. Victoria P on May 21st, 2009 3:34 pm

    I am interested in joining the “group” lawsuit (or arbitration) against Curves International. I would like to find out who to contact. Thank you.

  133. unhappy on May 22nd, 2009 11:32 am

    Victoria,
    Send an email with your phone number and e-mail address on it to unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com requesting Sean to forward it to me and I will fill you in on all the lawsuits.

  134. Curves Owner2 on May 27th, 2009 4:10 pm

    Unhappy,

    What you say here is so true.

    (The main objective of all successfull franchisor’s is to make sure the franchisee’s are successful)

    I bought my club during this time. My club is here today because of what I’ve done. There was no support from Curves International. They should be held accountable for the resales that were sold at too high a price.

  135. sw on May 29th, 2009 5:51 pm

    So many people are simply running out of money, which is due to the current overall economic situation. Everyone is affected. People aren’t buying like they were. If your club is teetering between the black and the red, just blame it on your unhappy childhood or Gary. Some of us take responsibility for our own success and keep going with a positive attitude. Some people just sit on their derrieres and complain to the bbb or anyone else who will listen.

  136. unhappy on May 29th, 2009 6:45 pm

    Yes sw 90 % of the curves owners are going broke and some like you like to wallow in self pity. Grow up and admit it sw you have no clue and should have never been a curves owner. Some people when they see an injustice happening prefer to stand up and take a stand and fight so that others like you can rip the benefits. Howie is nothing but a crook and a dishonest human who has used Christianity to line his pockets with the almighty dollar. By speaking up and filling complaints owners are now being heard loud and clear and just because you are against the practice of speaking up why hold it against owners that do. If you were really an owner and not slime ball from the CI office of hell you would welcome the fact that many owners have had enough of Howie’s lies and false promises. Go head stick you head in the sand and swallow all the shit the Howie spews all day long. Howies day is coming real soon as the courts in Waco are tried of all his delay tactics and the trials are ready to start. He has no chance in court and will surly lose his shirt. So sw why don’t you just go back and crawl in the hole you came out of which of course is Howie’s ass.

  137. jd on May 29th, 2009 8:42 pm

    ‘Yes sw 90 % of the curves owners are going broke’

    Please cite your source on this. Since you know so much, please tell me what percentage of these owners are re-sale buyers that over paid, how many are first time owners, etc.

    Oh, and I guess since I’m doubting the almighty ‘unhappy’ I’m going to Gary hell too.

  138. John on May 29th, 2009 8:59 pm

    Mr, JD all you will succeed in doing is to bring from the bowels of the underworld…Carol Cross.

  139. sw on May 29th, 2009 9:02 pm

    Dear unhappy

    I wrote, “Some of US take responsibility for our own success and keep going with a positive attitude.”
    And you write back, “some like you like to wallow in self pity.”
    Some like ME?
    CAN YOU READ?
    You said, “some of us stand up and take a stand and fight so that others like you can rip the benefits”
    You are not benefiting me.
    You sure do sound mad, unhappy.
    I take responsibility for my own success. YOU blame Gary
    Go ahead and blame Gary. I’m sure he will be ok.
    R U sure all your unhappiness doesn’t stem from your unhappy childhood, unhappy? Never mind-I’m sure it’s all Gary’s fault.
    don’t worry. be happy!
    lol lol lol lol ,lol lol
    Have a great day, unhappy!

  140. another curver on May 29th, 2009 10:41 pm

    i’m sorry to see the name calling type of behavior. It’s much more productive to read peoples personal experience.
    I had to close one of my curves franchises and am fighting to keep the other one open (for both my sake and the members). I’m fighting economically and i’m fighting Curves International. it’s so sad that they can’t be more cooperative.
    Most recently they sent me a legal notice warning me to stop using the Curves name. Could it just a formality from the processing of paperwork related to the franchise i closed (‘abandoned” is their term)? Or are they directing me to close the other franchise too? I’m sure it is just a formality, but it feels more like a kick in the stomach. It does reflect how impersonal their operations are. And when I read how they sue other franchisees who’ve been in my shoes, I worry.

  141. sw on May 29th, 2009 11:28 pm

    I agree and apologize for my part. I will try to stay more positive the next time unhappy tells me that I eat someones s*** and came out of their a**.

  142. unhappy on May 30th, 2009 12:07 pm

    Well at least my posts are getting some feed back and by the way I don’t apologize to anyone who will try to stick up for Howie, the most unethical, immoral, dishonest business person I have ever met. Oh and just to set the record straight sw I actually didn’t tell say you came out of their ass. My reference is that you have your head so far up his ass that you can see his true colors.

    Now JD you certainly won’t go to hell for disagreeing with me but you will if you try to stand up for Howie and spew his lies and try to help him continue ripping people off. Now as for your question of where I get the stats for that statement. First off I am working with or been in contact with over 2500 franchisee who are all having financial problems but that is not the 90 percent of all curves but it is a good indication of what is happening to the clubs. Secondly we did a random survey of 20 percent of all known open franchisee that are listed in the new franchise disclosure document and we actually came up with a slightly higher figure of 94 percent with an error factor of 3 percent. Thirdly there was a survey done on the yahoo curves owners group site that came up with a much higher rate but the number of responses, which were very low, really doesn’t give it any credibility. If you are an owner you should by all means check out the yahoo group site if you haven’t done so already.

    Now sw let me explain that I may sound unhappy and I go by the moniker of unhappy but in my day to day life I’m not so unhappy and have a smile on my face 99 percent of the time. Yes I get very upset when some idiot tries to stand up for Howie with no evidence on their side to document why they think he is such a good Christian. He is not a Christian by any means and has used that to sell his bag of lies to further his greed. I don’t have the time to show you proof of that but if you will take time to go through all the posts on this and related site you couldn’t help but agree. As far as the Curves workout you will never hear me bad mouth it as it does work and any owner who says differently is a liar. It is such a shame that the name curves is associated with the Heavins!!!!

  143. unhappy on May 30th, 2009 1:27 pm

    To Another Curver,
    It sounds like your nightmare is going to get a lot worse. You may need to have some legal advice in which case the lawyers in Tx that are handling most of the individual case against curves will be able to help you. If you decide you need to speak to one of them please send an email to Sean at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and he will forward it to me . Be sure to file a complaint with the BBB and the federal trade copmmission.

  144. Not a Victim on May 30th, 2009 6:04 pm

    Curves franchisees should check out the comments on the Children’s Orchard posts:
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/childrens-orchard-unhappy-franchisees-launch-site/
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/childrens-orchard-taylor-bond-a-franchise-mystery/
    I found it interesting that the commenters there – just like here (at least unhappy) – focus all their energy on blaming one scapegoated CEO but can’t manage to come up with a list of specific things that they want changed.

    Check it out and see the similarities.
    Taylor Bond is their Gary Heavin. Everything is Bond’s fault – just as unhappy thinks its all Heavin’s fault. Bond is their antichrist. The root of all evil. But ask them what they want him to do – how Bond can make them happy – and they can’t tell you.
    Just like here. You guys can bash Heavin, his religion, blah blah blah but can you come up with a tangible list of specific demands that you would help you survive?
    What do you people want?
    Want them to suspend or reduce royalties for a while?
    Want them to give you control of the ad fund? Or let you spend your ad contribution locally on what you want?

    Franchisees love to complain and bash their franchisor but when they are asked to propose solutions they change the subject – just like your group.

    If franchisees don’t want to be treated like sheep, they should stop acting like sheep… unless you guys make your demands clear, and state what you want, all you’re doing is baaa-ing a little louder than the others.

    unhappy will not be able to control himself – just watch. He will have to put the focus on Heavin and will somehow discount the need for a list of specific demands or improvements that will help stores survive.

    How can Heavin give you what you want if you can’t say what it is you want? All you do is complain. That’s why franchisors stop listening.

  145. sw on May 31st, 2009 3:24 am

    Dear unhappy-

    You said- “Well at least my posts are getting some feed back”

    In my original post, I made no specific reference to you. If I had been giving you feedback, I would have addressed you by name.

    But now I am addressing you by name and you can be so proud about all this “feedback” you’re getting.

    Maybe you think that bad press is better than no press? I don’t.

    You said- “I don’t apologize to anyone who will try to stick up for Howie”

    I didn’t ask you for an apology, but I think I would have respected you for it- not that you care- and I think the other people here would have too. I did not stick up for “Howie” or anyone else. I said that I believe people should take responsibility for their own success and not blame other people.

    You said- “Go head stick you head in the sand and swallow all the shit the Howie spews all day long.”

    So you didn’t exactly say I do eat “Howie’s” s*** You just think I should and your are suggesting that I do?

    You said- “So sw why don’t you just go back and crawl in the hole you came out of which of course is Howie’s ass.”

    So, you did say that [I] should CRAWL BACK INTO Howie’s ASS, the HOLE [I] CAME OUT OF.

    In your most recent post, you said- “Oh and just to set the record straight sw I actually didn’t tell say you came out of their ass. My reference is that you have your head so far up his ass that you can see his true colors.

    So you’re using semantics to clarify your statement about saying that I came out of Howie’s a**, by explaining that you really said that I have my head up “Howie’s” a**?

    That’s much nicer, thank you.

    You also said- “If you were really an owner and not slime ball from the CI office of hell…”

    So, you also called me a slime ball. (And I don’t work at the CI office, which doesn’t matter anyway.)

    You said- “Howie is nothing but a crook and a dishonest human”

    You said- “…owners have had enough of Howie’s lies…”

    “Howie” may be a liar. and based upon your denial of the statements you made directly to me and then denied, what are you?

    You said- “just because you are against the practice of speaking up why hold it against owners that do.

    I’m not against the practice of speaking up. I “practice” speaking up all the time, which is why I posted in the first place. People speak up from every direction, unhappy, not just from the direction you’re coming from.

    So unhappy, all I really have left to say is that I understand that you feel you’ve been wronged. It’s a bad deal for everyone-all of us.

    “Howie” may be a really bad man. Then again, maybe he’s not. I agree with the things that Not A Victim wrote. And I think a lot of these financial problems have more to do with the economy than any one person in particular, including “Howie.”

    None of this matters. What does matter is that we all stay level headed and take positive action. How can we move up if we stay so busy trying to take someone down.

    It really might be a good thing for you to apologize to all the other owners (not me) for your potty mouth.

    `sw

  146. Sheila on May 31st, 2009 2:23 pm

    Ok I have two questions…
    First, SW if you aren’t so “unhappy” with your Curves then why the hell are you even looking at this website???? Yeah that’s what I thought..
    Second, instead of sitting here arguing your point with unhappy why the hell aren’t you running your Curves???? Ok that’s what I thought again.. if you don’t want to hear everyone’s complaints then stay off the website.. some of us are in deep debt and just needed to know we weren’t the only ones with problems.. have you ever heard of group therapy?? Oh that’s right your a PERFECT Curves follower! You must have a million in the bank by now from owning one right? Curves Int’l has no feelings for anyone but lining Gary’s pocket.. so if you don’t want to hear any of us then stay off the damn website.. we appreciate someone elses understanding of our problems.. thanks!

  147. Sheila on May 31st, 2009 2:25 pm

    Oooops guess I have a potty mouth too.. Gee, are we still in America??? Freedom of speech right? Or is this Curves world? Where we have to be perfect like SW?? I think I will take America!! :)

  148. sw on May 31st, 2009 5:30 pm

    There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.
    ~ Goethe

  149. so sad on June 1st, 2009 1:38 am

    I would love Curves to be everything it claimed to be and that the CI was a cool, informed and honest people.. I know I am. I am new owner that cries, wondering what the hell to tell all my cool gals whom love Curves. But busting the nut and growing the club is beyond my comprehension. I am smart gal…I am an experienced woman and nothing in the biz model is right… The true facts, I got later, that the average club is at 250 members is unbelievable.

    I have spent 30k in the purchase, advertising, waco non sense camp and upgrades. I have 7 months in and have only grown from 190 to 220. This is sad… I can’t do it alone. I did a club assessment with my helper, and when I put in the mortgage she baulked say Corp doesn’t want real numbers just the ones they think matter…

    In my area, one more just closed, that is 4 this year and the remaining gals who have been Curving for over 5 years, aren’t making it… The stress is outrageous. And yes, they all have paid way too much, big bucks…they won’t make it at this point…

    The club camp was so frightening and fake and unsound biz practice. The human rights violated while I was there, left me depressed and ashamed to be partners with these scary yooo-hooos. They are insane, and honestly, as people I wouldn’t have a lunch with Diane, Gary, Cassie, fancy lawyer threatening us, or silly Nadia, with her blueberry bs or the robust AD running around like women prison guards. (yikes)

    I have a prayer, Please God, take this great product from these hypocrites and let it rebuild under new management with good biz sense and a new model that works for the grater good. Truth is I hate that Curves such a viable product is suffering so much pain…from the owners, to the members, to the community…It hurts everyone when another one bites the dust.

    What is the future of Curves, is Gary’s ego going to kill it??? How many more have closed to date????

    Thanks for sharing your Curves….so I can make a decision about my future.

  150. unhappy on June 1st, 2009 1:05 pm

    Well well well Sw they also say ignorance is bliss and you must be one blessful person cus your ingnorence is overwhelming you dumb ass. Give me your club address and I’ll send you some tissue so you can wipe the shit form your eyes so you will be albe to see again or is it that your blind to go along with being deaf and dumb.

  151. unhappy on June 1st, 2009 3:10 pm

    Not a Victim,
    If you would have read all the posts on http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/ you wouldn’t even make such an accusation unless you are working for CI… The problem with this franchise has been a direct result of how it has been managed (mismanaged) since 2003. You can read the reason for the law suit at http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-discussion-benefits-of-a-franchisee-lawsuit/ which should explain some of dishonest business practices that Howie has used thus causing financial hardships on the owners of a franchisee. Furthermore to my knowledge no one has ever bashed his religion as it is obvious to the majority of owners that he is not and never has been a Christian in any use of the word. His actions, behavior, and deeds have proven that time and time again. I don’t need to provide you with any examples as all owners have enough of their own real life dealings with him to know that is the truth and have voiced many of their opinions on the on http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/. Now you ask what they can do to make us happy. Well funny you should ask that because as far as I’m concerned Howies options at this point are few. It is obvious that the decline of Curves will continue until either Howie sells the corporation or files bankruptcy. This scenario has been contemplated by the lawyers and litigants in most of the group action lawsuits that have been filed against Curves International and Gary Howard Havein. While I’m sure most owners don’t feel this could happen considering the amount of money generated from all the franchisee’s it is not as far fetched of an idea that one may think. First off as most people know, who have been successful at one time or another, your income is relative to your expenses. In other words as your income grows so does your standard of living and your costs usually match your income level. When income starts to drop the standard of living is usually at a fixed amount and is very hard to lower without down sizing which in most cases is very hard to do. We do know that all Curves are having a very ruff time financially and many have had to close not only in the US but all over the world and it is anticipated that many more will be closing by the first of the year. While we can argue what the reasons are for all the closes the fact remains that they are closing at an alarming rate. This has had a profound effect on the income coming into Curves International at the same time that the group action lawsuits have gained traction and are proceeding in court with court dates being set up for the trail and hundreds of individual law suits being filed and coming to an end later this year or early next. While many have been settled out of court for settlements ranging from 10,000 to 30,000 dollars the remaining litigants so far have been unwilling to settle for such low amounts and have been willing to take it all the way to trail in hopes of receiving a 7 digit award. If these lawsuits are won by the litigants, there will surly be more group action lawsuits filed as there are many franchise lawyers who are considering doing just that to get their piece of the pie. Curves International and Gary Howard Heavin’s best solution would of course be to settle these lawsuit at a lower dollar figure an impose a gage order on them so that the litigants couldn’t disclose any of the proceeding or settlement amounts. If he decides to take them all the way and loses in court his options are very limited. He could try to appeal the decision but to do so he would have to put up a cash bond in the amount of the settlement which is doubtful that he would have that much cash readily available or to file bankruptcy. If he files bankruptcy their is president in other franchise cases where the courts would take over and hire a CEO who is familiar with franchises to protect not only the rights of the litigants but of the franchisee’s.
    So any franchises that are upset and haven’t filed a complaint with the BBB of both your state and TX. and the Attorneys Generals Office of both States as well as the Federal Trade Commission should do so at once. Also it wouldn’t hurt to send a complaint letter to the attorney Generals Office of NV. Since it is a Nevada corporation.

  152. sw on June 1st, 2009 3:39 pm

    unhappy: Hoorah for you!! More feedback; all just for you! Yippee!!

    How can you expect to be taken seriously?

    It’s too bad that you weren’t required to pass an intelligence exam prior to purchasing your club. If you had been, you wouldn’t be in all this trouble you’re in now.

    Well (Comma) well (Comma) well (Comma) Sw (Period) they (They) also say ignorance is bliss and (so) you must be one blessful (blissful) person cus (because) your ingnorence (ignorance) is overwhelming (comma) you dumb ass. Give me your club address and I’ll send you some tissue so you can wipe the shit form (from) your eyes so you will be albe (able) to see again or is it that your (you’re) blind to go along with (as well as OR in addition to) being deaf and dumb. (Question mark)

  153. sw on June 1st, 2009 4:22 pm

    I regret my last post and I apologize to everyone here.

    “Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.”

    ~Robert Cuillen

  154. unhappy on June 1st, 2009 4:28 pm

    why apologize sw we all know you don’t really mean it !!!!!!!

  155. unhappy on June 1st, 2009 5:21 pm

    Hey sw are you a member of the CFA ? I’m running for office and I’d sure like your vote!! Can I count on it ? Maybe than you will see the cahnge we are all talking about.

  156. unhappy on June 1st, 2009 5:27 pm

    Get the newist lowdown on who Howie and his friends are at this site
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-for-women-business-broker-slams-curves-franchise-and-franchisor/

  157. Amused on June 3rd, 2009 12:45 pm

    Gary Heavin is an arrogant, self-serving, presumptuous, overconfident, pushy control freak. He lives his life on his terms and expects everyone else to live life on his terms too. None of these qualities necessarily make him a criminal; just a real asshole… More precisely, A REAL RICH ASSHOLE!

    If a man could be sent to prison for being an arrogant, self-serving, controlling… asshole, then every major corporation throughout the world, including all government agencies from the White House down and in every country would have to shut their doors.

  158. Amused on June 3rd, 2009 1:37 pm

    (Insert Name Here) is an arrogant, self-serving, presumptuous, overconfident, pushy control freak. He lives his life on his terms and expects everyone else to live life on his terms too. None of these qualities necessarily make him a criminal; just a real asshole… More precisely, A REAL RICH ASSHOLE!

    If a person could be sent to prison for being an arrogant, self-serving, controlling… asshole, then every major corporation throughout the world, including all government agencies from the White House down and in every country would have to shut their doors.

  159. krista Rayburn on June 4th, 2009 5:31 pm

    I am horrified reading all of these sad stories! What an incredible mess and such unfortunate outcomes for some many people! I am truly shocked to see so many people financially ruined by this! I bought a Curves resale with a partner a couple of years ago. We have done over a year of due diligence and thoroughly researched the investment with the assistance of several experts and in the end, we were just sure we could make it.

    We finished camp in Waco and shortly after that, things began to unravel. We just couldn’t seem to get ahead and out of the red. We had such high hopes to turn things around but had a very high rent which was our albatross. Members came and went but we never could get ahead. I could see this had been a mistake, at least for me. So, I sold my half of the business to my partner several months into it. I guess this was one of the smartest things I ever did!

    Good luck to all of you and I hope you are successful in getting back at least some of your losses. I will pray for that!

  160. unhappy on June 4th, 2009 6:45 pm

    Thank you Krista for your post and you are definately one smart women to have sold your half of the business. How is your partner doing and is she still open?

  161. krista Rayburn on June 4th, 2009 6:53 pm

    She is still open but has had it up for sale for several months now. Unfortunately, we didn’t part as friends and do not stay in touch. I know she converted to the smart system but she has to be losing alot. She bought another Curves and went smart also with it. I don’t know if going “smart” was a good decision or not. The other resale location may be making a small profit as the rent is considerable lower.

    What happened to McCord? I cannot pull up their website anymore and wonder where those resales are posted now.

  162. unhappy on June 4th, 2009 7:10 pm

    The curves smart was just another one of Howies ideas to make more money for himself as it does not work and was sold as new technology but in reality is over ten year old. Only about 40 percent of the clubs have smart and almost all of them complain that it has not helped at all. I don’t know what happened to McCords but will check into it and will post when I find out. Many lawsuits against them as they were fraudulently taking clubs over and selling them by having the owners singing a power of attonery over to them and the owners would receive nothing for the club, It was owned by Howie’s brother so I’m sure you get the picture.

  163. krista Rayburn on June 4th, 2009 7:27 pm

    Unbelievable!

  164. unhappy on June 4th, 2009 7:38 pm

    I just went to Mc Cords site and it came up for me so try here and you should get it up. http://www.mccordbusinessbrokers.com//index.asp?choice=listing check out how many clubs are for sale for less than 10,000 and many for 1 dollar.

  165. unhappy on June 4th, 2009 9:04 pm

    Hew sw where did you go? Did you crawl back into the hole you came out of ? So long good bye and God Bless

  166. krista Rayburn on June 4th, 2009 11:37 pm

    thanks unhappy, I could not get it to pull up and can now.

  167. Wipedout on June 5th, 2009 3:15 am

    What do we want, Not a Victim?

    We want Heavin’s money. We want our lives and peace of mind back. We want compensation. He sold far too many franchises and oversaturated the market. We want him punished financially for doing so.

    THAT’S what we want.

  168. unhappy on June 5th, 2009 9:22 am

    It doesn’t appear that Not A Victim is with us any more. Obviously he, she or it couldn’t take the truth.

  169. Sheila on June 5th, 2009 5:41 pm

    Krista you are one of the lucky ones that’s for sure! Smart thinking getting out in time! I am having to file bankruptcy for over 65K.. and my business partner took all of the other debt.. he unfortunately can’t file for bankruptcy.. Curves is trying to get over 60K from him… we didn’t do the Smart technology.. we could never afford it.. after gas prices started rising I had so many members quit and it just snowballed.. the town we were in was less than 8,000.. it was terrible.. I put my blood, sweat and tears into it as I know everyone has.. Curves keeps getting richer and we keep getting poorer… I feel for all Curves owners.. thank you for your prayers Krista.. we need them!

  170. unhappy on June 5th, 2009 6:08 pm

    Sheila,
    Sory to hear about your nighmare with curves. It sounds like your partner may have a shot at joining the lawsuit to recoop some of his losses. Remember to file complaints with the following.
    http://www.bbb.org/

    http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c

    http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml

  171. ADMIN on June 11th, 2009 12:30 pm

    New post: Happy Curves franchisee speaks out
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-happy-franchise-owner-speaks-out/

    South African franchise owner says franchisees should stop blaming Curves & Heavins and take responsibility for their own decisions.

    Comments welcome.

  172. ADMIN on June 12th, 2009 9:50 am

    Your input needed here. Please read and comment:

    Top 10 Ways to Keep Franchisees Happy? Share your Thoughts

  173. kim minshew on June 29th, 2009 6:38 pm

    I bought a resale 2 years ago , the person that sold it to us did not give us the correct numbers on the memberships it was low but after we deleted non paying members out it was a lot lower. But we slowly brought the numbers up but as soon as you get new members 3 or 4 quit you never get ahead. We have never made a penny of profit since we bought it and I work there to save on payroll ,we have had to use our savings every month to pay the rent or something now my savings is gone we dont even have enough to pay rent for next month,our lease is up sept 09 and I think we r closing .I am very scared of what we face with CI when we tell them.

  174. unhappy on July 1st, 2009 11:05 am

    Kim don’t let it wory you as there really is nothing to be scared of. The 10,000 dollar fee is iligal for them to charge you as it is not in any of the contracts but you need to send ADMIN an e-mail at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com requesting he send it on to unhappy and he can explain the prceeedures that you will be going through with CI and how to handle them.

  175. jason on July 4th, 2009 8:25 pm

    If you are an owner of a curves franchise and are upset at the underhanded, unethical, immoral, and shoddy business practices of Curves International you need to go to this site http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/280/RipOff0280916.htm
    and file a complaint. It may help someone else from making the biggest mistake of there life.

  176. unfortunate owner on July 12th, 2009 5:17 pm

    A friend and I bought a curves in a small town. From the beginning we were told untrue information from the seller. We have been struggling for almost 2 years and now we have decided to shut the doors. I might have one buyer however, I am not sure if she can come up with money. I am selling it for 1.00. I am not sure what is best. I would like more information on how to handle curves if we close our doors. thanks

  177. Jennifer McTier on August 16th, 2009 10:55 am

    I was thinking of buying a Curves until I read all of your responses. Why, if Cures is such a bad thing, has it been named “Francisor of the Year 2009″

  178. ADMIN on August 16th, 2009 12:07 pm

    Jennifer McTier says: I was interested in purchasing a Curves until I read some of the posts. If Curves is such a bad deal, why has it been named “Franchisor of the Year for 2009?

    Jennifer McTier :
    There are no valid franchise awards/rankings that we know of (Though FranSurvey.Com at one time seemed to be useful and well-intentioned). All are somehow driven by a self-serving motive. For Entrepreneur magazine, the 800 lb. gorilla of franchise rankings, it is ad sales and perpetuation of the franchise myth of great opportunities galore.

    The 2009 Franchisor of the Year award was given by the AAFD (American Association of Franchisees & Dealers). This is the same organization that gave Cuppy’s Coffee – an outright scam organization – its highest accreditation and defended it despite tons of warning signs that they were pirates. Why? Because Cuppy’s was paying the AAFD. Once they stopped paying, AAFD “got religion.”

    From what I understand, Curves International made a commitment to spend $250K or so funding the AAFD-sanctioned Curves franchisee association. Think that might have had something to do with it?

    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-aafd-names-curves-franchisor-of-the-year/

    Keep in mind that the very name of the award is deceptive. Since their awards are solely for AAFD member organizations, shouldn’t it be designated as “Franchisor AAFD Member of the Year”? The award implies they evaluated all franchisors and designated the winner as the best. In fact, the number of franchisors involved with the AAFD is quite small.

    Be sure to also check out:
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/
    http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/curves-is-franchisor-of-year-say-what/
    http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/aafd-quietly-suspends-cuppys-franchisor-accreditation/

  179. unhappy on August 16th, 2009 2:57 pm

    Jennifer,

    this is truly a fake award bought and paid for by Howard Heavin. the CFA is now charging 50 for each franchise to join the association and so far only 500 clubs or so have joined which is less than 5 percent of the clubs that are left open. Look around your area and you wil see that most of the clubs have closed.

  180. Another Curver on August 16th, 2009 5:40 pm

    Jennifer said she was thinking about buying a Curves. I hope someone will buy my Curves franchise. Not because it is such a great thing to deal with CurvesInternational (CI) but because the Curves concept is fabulous, and the clubs themselves do a huge service in the community. I have to sell mine because of going thru bankruptcy because of closing my second club. Otherwise, I was trying to hold onto my club. I wasn’t making alot of money (about $1500/month for 50-60 hrs/week of work) but working the floor is the best job I’ve ever had, and I find the workout itself the most successful way to keep my health problems managed.
    Also, I pray we’ll see an improvement in the economy soon, and I think we’re starting to see more women come back to Curves. In my market, the boycott by Planned Parenthood in 2004 (to when?) hurt us badly. I think we’re getting far enough away from it that things are starting to improve. I wish I could wait another year, because I think I will see over 500 people in my club again. But I can’t wait. I’m hoping to find someone else who can.
    As far as the purposes of this website, I agree that CI (and Heavin) have been cagey at best, and selfishly have made choices that hurt many franchisees: I agree that they shouldn’t have allowed me to split my territory and open a second club in my market when I was delirious with the height of my success (about 700 members and on a fast growth curve). I also believe that his self indulgent publicity stunts, that resulted in the boycott by Planned Parenthood, were truly harmful to many of us and shouldn’t have happened or been tolerated, regardless of any of our political beliefs.
    But that situation seems to be under control now, and I am putting faith into the believe that if:
    we are aware of -and make allowances for- CI and Heavin’s self-interested motivations, and
    we can attract more women to the benefits of our system,
    then
    we can be successful again with our businesses.
    I know that may seem too optimistic to those who have been most harmed by CI/Heavin’s selfish choices, but I am one of the many women who really truly rely on the Curves Club to provide me with a successful way to manage my health issues and I don’t know what I could do if they all went up in smoke.
    Best Wishes to all of you.

  181. Christa on August 21st, 2009 11:53 pm

    You are all a bunch of whiners

  182. so sad on August 22nd, 2009 1:07 am

    Whiners, wow…how sad…This Curve controversy is not made up. it’s true! Curves success at this point is in spite of CI and Obi-Jaun Gary- gross…that fake smile, and those flashy pearly whites, yikes!!!

    Don’t call people names, especially whiners, naive, yes, or even perhaps, over excited…but whiners, not so much…

    There are a lot of Curve owners that are truly suffering, financially, emotionally, and physically, and they’re all great gals…it’s sad!!!

  183. CURVES: Recent Comments : Franchise Pick - Picking the Perfect Franchise on August 30th, 2009 5:07 pm

    [...] a Curves franchise post on UnhappyFranchisee, Another Curver wrote 2009/08/16 at 5:40pm: I hope someone will buy my Curves franchise. Not because it is such a great thing to deal with [...]

  184. Curves Owner2 on September 15th, 2009 8:12 pm

    Just curious. What did you think of the latest fireside chat?

  185. unhappy on September 16th, 2009 12:08 pm

    It is typical of howard to blame the owners so nothing was new. The controversy over the hotel booking at convention and the price is another example of how curves is ripping off the owners. It’s a shame that the members of the clubs are the one’s who are really being hurt by this crook.

  186. member on September 16th, 2009 8:59 pm

    Today I went into the Curves where I’m a member and found out that they are closing in a week! No more notice than that! Worse, there is a “letter” to us members that the club will STILL be taking my money this month! I’ve got a message into the NV Attorney General http://ag.state.nv.us/ since there is no way this can be legal!

    Oh, the club I belong to? Who owns it? Robert Lay!!!!! That’s right THIS Robert Lay!

    I wish there was a way for me to post his letter, he’s got the nerve to post all this and then charge us for our NEXT MONTH while he KNOWS he is going to be closed! My friend just paid him a month ago for the ENTIRE NEXT YEAR! I wonder if she is going to get her money back?

    Thankfully, he put up his letter to us and TOLD US to search for this page!!! Otherwise we’d have had no idea where to find him. Thanks! I’ve also followed your advice and complained about YOU to Curves. None of this should have surprised us. It was only a few weeks ago that he was YELLING at a visiting member calling her a f***ing b. She had to have been 55-60!

    Erasing intelligent stuff against you? How many times will I have to post this before it doesn’t “disappear”?

  187. ADMIN on September 17th, 2009 11:38 am

    member:
    To address your comment and your accusatory email, your comment didn’t “disappear”

    The first time someone posts a comment it is held for moderation and must be approved manually. Once they have been identified as a legitimate commenter (and not one of the automated spam generators that bombard our site continuously) future comments appear immediately.

    When I checked the moderation queue this morning your two duplicate comments were awaiting moderation. I approved one. Your future comments should appear immediately.

    Mr. Lay has no ability to moderate or remove comments on the site. I printed his story. Other than that he has the same commenting abilities that you now do.

    There are other avenues you can pursue to try to get your money. Contact your credit card company or the bank to dispute the charge. AGs in some states have escrow accounts in place to repay members of closed health clubs.

    Our site is focused on the plight of people who are losing their businesses, their homes, and their retirement savings. While your $29.95 monthly fee (or whatever it is) may seem like the world to you, you are putting your message in front of people whose lives are devastated and find themselves under the weight of crushing debt from which they might not recover. While your complaint may be justified, don’t be surprised if your righteous indignation is not met with the degree of outrage you think it deserves.

    Be assured, member, if you find yourself unable to comment on my site it won’t be due to Robert Lay. It will be all you.

  188. jd on September 17th, 2009 5:24 pm

    Sean, i’ve got to disagree with your assessment here.

    What’s the difference between what this person is saying and what was happening on the LA Weight Loss (or their affiliate) issues that were covered on this website. Just as in the case of those customers, they paid for ‘nutrition’ bars or whatever they were and didn’t get the product for what they paid for. In this case, Robert took the money of members when I’m sure it was known to him in some capacity that he would be closing said store.

  189. ADMIN on September 17th, 2009 11:30 pm

    What’s the difference between what this person is saying and what was happening on the LA Weight Loss (or their affiliate) issues that were covered on this website.
    A few differences:
    First, UnhappyFranchisee.com never featured LA Weight Loss. That was on FranchisePick.com which is a little more general in focus.
    Second, the LAWL people lost hundreds and thousands of dollars, not $29.
    But the main reason is that none of the LAWL victims sent me a flaming email ranting about how I censored & deleted their comments.
    I’ve been dealing with my site being hacked for a couple of weeks now and I’m a little tired of hearing how I deleted posts and comments because of bribes, intimidation, etc. which is nonsense.
    JD you know I don’t regulate comments but I might make an exception in this lady’s case. Not based on her comment but on the email I got this morning.

  190. Another Curver on September 18th, 2009 12:07 am

    Sean, thank you for being a great moderator, and having this site.
    Also, thank you for your perspective on the member’s situation.

    re the club closing but still drafting the members dues:
    I can’t speak to the laws in the state of Nevada, but generally how it works with Curves in most states is that if there is another Curves within 25 miles of the one that is closing then the member’s membership is transferred there until their committment is met.
    As far as the “notice” on how soon the club is closing, I can understand why there is only a weeks notice. We had 6 days notice, from our landlord, when I closed our doors. And I know another franchisee who held on as long as she could, and sadly, the police arrived to evict her and her business. Sure, we can criticize her, or we can be compassionate. It’s always a choice.
    Best wishes to all.

  191. rlay on September 18th, 2009 1:02 am

    Wait a minute here. The member is truly misinformed and is not telling the truth. I have been trying to post the letter that was given to each member as they came in to workout since the 15th of this month. I will post it over the weekend for all to see and that should clear up any misinformation that that particular member is referring to. First off it clearly states in the letter that the fees for September will be the last fees deducted from the members account . We draft on the 5th and the 20th of each month for that particular month.. The members have the choice of either date but it is for the month’s dues for that particular month. No where did it state that we would be deducting for October. Secondly all prepaid accounts have the option to either transfer to a new club or be refunded the amount they have on their account. They were all told this and third, most of the members knew that we had been thinking of closing for months.

    I would like to thank you Sean for explaining to this member that I had noting to do with deleting her post. Furthermore we are not forcing any of our members to transfer as we have given them the option of getting a travel pass and the different locations which they can go to if they decide to stay with Curves. We are not forcing any of them to continue at another club but have left it up to them to make the choice. We even explained that the monthly dues should remain the same as they were paying us if they decide to go to another facility in our area and what to do it if the new club tries to up their fee.

    Robert Lay

  192. rlay on September 18th, 2009 1:26 am

    One more thing. In her post she says we were rude to a member by calling her a f+++B. Well she is correct on that but she forgot to mention that the lady in question was a traveling member who had been told 2 months before that she was barred from our facility. The reason she was barred was because she refused to use the equipment correctly after repeatedly being warned by myself and other trainers. She also did a weird exercise on the floor like a snake near the bathroom each time she came in. We had informed her she could not user the club but continued to sneak in and on that particular Saturday I just happened to be there. I let her work out but told her before she left she was to stop at the front desk when she was done. She became verbally abusive to me and was told to leave. She refused to leave and I got up from behind the desk and went to physically throw her out. As she ran for the door she called me a pr++k and I responded by calling her a f++++++ B and that if she ever came back into our club I would have her arrested. There were no members in the club at that time but I do have a witness to the whole incident who gave his account to the police which I called. if she had stuck around she would have been arrested. So dear member who didn’t have the guts to leave her name maybe you had better get the facts straight before you post such slanderous posts.

    Robert Lay

  193. member on September 18th, 2009 3:41 am

    I thought long and hard today about whether or not to respond to the moderators messages. But because we were referred here by Mr. Lay and other members and friends of mine will be here, I think it’s important that I do.

    After posting my original message, which appeared IMMEDIATELY at the bottom of the comments portion, I came back a few hours later to find that it was no longer there. Having gotten no notice when I posted the original (or an e-mail) stating that the post would be initially removed/held and (re)posted after approval, I attempted to re-post it twice. I received a message to the effect that I was trying to post a duplicate message. Confused, and not knowing Mr. Lay’s relation to this site, remember, (HE told us to go here so I believed him to be affiliated with it) and wondering if HE had deleted my post from HIS page, I went to the contact us link at the top of THIS page and wrote the following to the moderator in private (he chose to make it and a modified version of his response public):

    Is Mr. Lay allowed to remove any intelligent comments that disagree with him? I posted the below which was promptly removed. I tried to post it again, twice, and was told it was a duplicate. If he is claiming that what I posted is untrue, if you provide me with an e-mail address to send you his letter I will gladly do so. Since I do not know your connection with Mr. Lay and due to the fact that I’ve seen the way Mr. Lay treats people in person, see below, and he knows way too much personal information about me, I have no desire to give you a phone number or my name for him to look up in his Curves records. When you read the below, you will understand why I do not trust him. You may contact me through e-mail. Thank you. Here is the message I posted, why was it removed?:

    I followed that with the post you see above (which originally did NOT have the “Erasing intelligent stuff…” line, that was added to the second repost attempt in frustration). This is the response I got from the moderator:

    Too Tough Gal:

    Thanks for your email.
    Your post wasn’t removed. The first time someone posts a comment it is held for moderation and must be approved manually. Once they have been identified as a legitimate commenter (and not one of the automated spam generators that bombard our site continuously) future comments appear immediately.
    When I checked the moderation queue this morning your two duplicate comments were awaiting moderation. I approved one. Your future comments should appear immediately.
    Mr. Lay has no ability to moderate or remove comments on the site. I printed his story. Other than that he has the same commenting abilities that you now do.
    That being said, you have came on my website, screamed at me and made unfounded and untrue allegations about your comments being deleted. You missed or disregarded the message that said your comment was being held for moderation. Do you really think the best way to complain about someone else being ignorant and disrespectful is by being ignorant and disrespectful?
    A second reason you might want to tone down your rhetoric is that our site is focused on the plight of people who are losing their businesses, their homes, and their retirement savings. While your $29.95 monthly fee (or whatever it is) may seem like the world to you, you are putting your message in front of people whose lives are devastated and find themselves under the weight of crushing debt from which they might not recover. Your righteous indignation – while perhaps warranted – might not be met with the outrage you think is deserved.
    There are other avenues you can pursue to try to get your money. Contact your credit card company or the bank to dispute the charge. AGs in some states have escrow accounts in place to repay members of closed health clubs.
    But be assured that if you find yourself unable to comment on my site it will be due to your disrespect and/or lack of an apology and not because of Robert Lay.

    Admin
    UnhappyFranchisee.com

    You will note significant differences to the response he posted here for you all to read. I did not “scream” at him, nor anyone else. Even in my original post –as angry as I was – I used caps sparingly to emphasize just a few key points (perfectly acceptable when bold or italics is not available), but I don’t recall “screaming” at anyone. He also states that I sent him a “…flaming email ranting about how [he] censored & deleted their comments.” As you can see from the e-mail I sent him I neither ranted, nor flamed and I did NOT accuse the moderator of anything, I ASKED if Mr. Lay was the one who removed my comment and could do so with any comments he found not to his liking. Seemed like a fair question to me. I also did not accuse ANYONE of taking bribed! To whom was I disrespectful? To the Admin? I don’t believe so. To Mr. Lay? By stating facts about the man who is taking members’ money for services he KNOWS he will not be providing? I don’t know how to answer that, is that disrespectful? Was I “ignorant” as to what had happened? Yes, that is why I went to the contact us link – to find out. To whom do I owe an apology? To Mr. Lay? “Sorry that I complained about you taking our dues when you know you will be closed.”??

    Admin, to confirm what happened to me when I initially posted (that I did not “miss or disregard” any message notifying new users that their post will be delayed) I posted a brief “test” message earlier under a new e-mail address – as before, NO WARNING appeared. I take you at your word that you believed there was one, or more accurately, that there is supposed to be one, however, that is NOT the case. Might I suggest that you do the same test so that this doesn’t happen to anyone else. I’m sorry that someone has been hacking your site, I’m sorry that anyone’s business fails, but NEITHER of those things are our fault. You frustration with your hacking problem explains your reaction. But it’s hard for us members to be sympathetic to Mr. Lay when our money is taken when it shouldn’t be. It doesn’t matter if it’s $34 or $340, if he’s not supposed to take it, he shouldn’t. As you said, you don’t know him, we do. And as a religious woman, his “God bless you all.” at the end of his story offends me knowing that just a matter of weeks back he was cursing and screaming at a lady for no good reason.

    Sir, you state that you have no relation to Mr. Lay, you simply “printed his story” yet you don’t seem the least bit concerned about his actions while being overly sensitive to my statements and questions. So much so that you have threatened to not post future posts from me. When I looked through everything here I was aghast. I have to wonder, if things have been as bad as he says for as long as he says, then why no notice to us? Why take dues for AFTER he will be closed? It is not simply ONE $34 loss, but he is taking EVERYONE’S payments in September, again, I’m perfectly willing to provide you with HIS notice of this. Plus all the full year’s memberships he’s collected in the last few weeks/months. We’re not talking about a few dollars here, we’re talking about thousands. And for all those that did pay him up front for the next year, where does it leave them? He’s not saying. I work on the other side of town, so I went to a club there and asked about this and they said that Curves policy is to stop drafting 30 days prior to closing and while they will try to get my dues, they have never been able to get Mr. Lay to send money in the past. So, while I’m naturally sympathetic to all businesses suffering during these hard time – hard times for ALL of us – I’m NOT willing to accept that you, or anyone, believes it is right for Mr. Lay to take monies for services he knows full well he will not be providing. Are these other clubs going to allow us to be members without getting any money? As to one other posters comments regarding going to another Curves, Mr. Lay himself has suggested a bigger NON-Curves co-ed gym for us to go to. Surprisingly, it is located right by where his other closed club used to be. Will they accept my transfer? Will they waive my fees? Is Mr. Lay sending them my dues for September/October? Remember, all our dues are paid in advanced. So the monies he is taking today are for the NEXT month’s dues. I guess Mr. Lay is so angry with Curves that rather than have us go to another Curves, he’d rather we go to a big gym competitor. So much for his belief in the concept and concern for other small business owners.

    I don’t believe that ANY of this is out of line. I don’t know if when Mr. Lay told us to come here that he thought we’d all be happy to come here and post nice things about him. My friend saved all last year a few dollars at a time to come up with the money to pay Mr. Lay for this next year, so as sorry as I may be for the business closing, I’m more sympathetic to her than him.

    So, while I’m sure that if my posts do not remain, or even appear HERE, “it will be all [me]” but NOT for any of the reasons previously stated.

  194. ADMIN on September 18th, 2009 8:58 am

    Member wrote: To whom do I owe an apology?
    This would have been nice: I’m sorry for coming on your site and incorrectly accusing the administrator of suppressing my comments. I was angry but that was not an excuse for being a disrespectful guest. Thank you for the opportunity to post and discuss my complaint with Mr. Lay’s Curves.

  195. guest on September 18th, 2009 9:10 am

    “She also did a weird exercise on the floor like a snake near the bathroom each time she came in.”

    I believe that exercise is called the “Howie Heavin” ;)

  196. CURVES: Strange But True Fitness Tales : Franchise Pick - Picking the Perfect Franchise on September 18th, 2009 10:11 am

    [...] On a sad note, it looks like Robert Lay is going to be closing his Las Vegas Curves franchise this month.  Read his story and 200+ comments on the UnhappyFranchisee.com post CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story. [...]

  197. guest on September 18th, 2009 10:22 am

    If no other members were in the club, how would “member” know what lay said to a visiting member?

    Maybe “member” is the 60 yr old who called Lay a “pr++k” and is mad that she can’t do her snake slither exercise in front of his bathroom anymore.

  198. rlay on September 18th, 2009 10:28 am

    It is so sad that this loony tune is upset but she is wrong again and making false statements either through ignorance or intentional. Who knows but her payments are not deducted in advance as she states but for the month they were drawn on. She is upset for all the wrong reasons and of course we gave them the option of going to other gyms. We can only hope she continues your exercise program to relieve her of some pint up hostility. I hope she has had a great week and enjoys her new club where ever that my be.

  199. unhappy on September 18th, 2009 10:35 am

    Hey I like it the ” howie heavin ” move. When we all get him into court in March of 2010 he will be shown to be the snake that he really is!!!!!
    PS RL don’t worry about some member who doesn’t even understand the way her account is drafted. Some members are truly B@@@@@@ and she is surly one.

  200. member on September 18th, 2009 7:55 pm

    To right the false assumption, I never said I was there for THIS particular incident, but having witnessed other occasions where Mr. Lay has erupted, we did not find it at all hard to believe when we heard about it. And therefore I tend to believe the story as we heard it rather than as Mr. Lay recounts it. The person I was talking about lives right by the club. She’s a member at the other club because she goes there on her lunch break from work! So while she is a traveler, she is also a local resident. Seriously, do you not realize that people talk? You don’t think that when the owner of a business you frequent calls someone, especially someone from the neighborhood, a fing b it isn’t going to get back to the rest of the regular customers? Are you really that naïve? You wouldn’t’ believe the stuff we’ve heard. But I’m sure there will always a good reason for him to curse and scream at customers. Good business practice I guess. Of course, none of that was the point of my initial message, but you know that. It only served as an illustration of what type of “God fearing” man Mr. Lay is and why there is no way I would be posting my name. So yes, I guess I don’t “have the guts” to tell you who I am. You are a frightening individual and I would not feel safe if I did. It’s a shame your wife could not have run the business without your involvement. She and Margaret are the reason any of us stayed despite your appearances. I’m sorry I won’t be able to say goodbye to them. When I found out what was happening I had to see for myself and was floored and after reading your note to us – but after your not too surprising actions here, I will certainly not be returning to wish them well.

    But more importantly and to my actual point, no, you are stating things incorrectly with respect to how our money is handled. I joined your club mid month and paid my first month’s dues UP FRONT. Then starting the following month and every month since then you have taken money from my account. Since my initial payment was for the following 30 days, EVERY payment since then has been a payment for the NEXT 30 days too. So no, you are not taking money for September, you are taking money for September/October, just as I said. What you are claiming would only have happened if when I joined you did not take money for 60 days. That is flat out not what happened. You took it the very next month and every month since.

    What you should have done was STOP taking money from anyone on the 25th of AUGUST – 1 month before closing. That way everyone would have paid you for our last month and that would be that. Instead you have stated that you will be taking money from our accounts even now, when you KNOW you won’t be opened in a week. I guess it’s easier to call me a liar and make fun of people. And you wonder why I won’t tell you who I am?

  201. member on September 18th, 2009 8:00 pm

    BTW Look what I found, while waiting for the AG’s office to get back to me, and after reading the post by “Another Curver” I decided to follow her advice and search for Nevada Law on the topic. I was able to pretty quickly find this:

    NRS 598.956 Rights of buyer upon closure of dance studio or health club; election of remedies.
    1. If a dance studio or health club is closed for more than 1 month, through no fault of the buyer, he is entitled to:
    (a) Extend the contract for a period equal to the time the studio or club is closed; or
    (b) Receive a refund pro rata of the amount paid pursuant to the contract.
    2. If the dance studio or health club is closed without fault of its owner or management, the election of remedies under subsection 1 must be made by the studio or club. If the studio or club is closed because of the fault of its owner or management, the election must be made by the buyer.
    (Added to NRS by 1989, 2040; A 1993, 1965)

    Since the closure is permanent, no extension can be granted. So, not only should he not be drafting us, the ONLY option is to pro rate the refund from the closure date.

  202. Kim MInshew on September 18th, 2009 9:45 pm

    We Closed our curves july 31st, and they have left 2 messages on my voicemail saying they have heard we closed and to call them about arrangements,the 2nd message said call or they were turning our franchise over to legal. I can’t tell you how much stress is off of me after closing curves every month was a struggle to pay the bills. I stayed so stressed out it was bad on my marriage and my family, I don,t really care if they turn it over to legal,I don’t know what they can get we have spent all our savings and still owe a buisness loan. Has anyone on here closed without giving them notice? I would like to know what happened.In the economy today if you have to give up something the gym for alot of people would be 1 thing to give up maybe not everybody but in a small town it is. People are more worried about having a job than going to the gym. When I went to curves camp in 07 the lady over my team was a curves owner and also a cordinator, I was told they let her go along with alot more at curves international,I guess it is alright for them to do what they have to do,when we have no other choice but to close because we have run out of money they want to sue.

  203. unhappy on September 18th, 2009 10:11 pm

    Send an e-mail to Sean at unhappyfranchisee.com and request it to be forwarded to me with your phone number and we will be happy to go over the procedures and options you have. Many owners have gone through what you are going through so take a deep breath as you are not alone.

  204. kareen Lay on September 18th, 2009 11:54 pm

    I usually do not post on this site as my husband takes care of this side of the business for us and he has done quite a good job helping hundreds upon hundreds of owners who have had problems with the business tactics of Curves International. At this time after reading the post from a member of ours, I felt I needed to respond to her outlandish accusations. First off we don’t owe her a dime as she is mistaken on how the billing works period. My husband had every reason to react the way he did to the traveling member who had been told she was not welcome in our club on several different occasions. If I had been there I would have called the police and she would have ended up in jail for trespassing. She had been warned about this by myself, my husband and the other trainers and just refused to listen. Furthermore your statement about Robert being a “God fearing man” is not only uncalled for but darn right insulting and offensive. As Sean has stated so eloquently the purpose of this site is “Our site is focused on the plight of people who are losing their businesses, their homes, and their retirement savings” as a result of the business tactics of Gery Howard Heavin and Curves International. If you had any moral integrity you would come in to the club before we close and I or Margaret would be more than happy to show you your payment record form the day you started to the end of September which will prove that you are wrong. Oh and by the way you don’t need to worry about who you are as you are right about one thing. Members do talk and many have told us who you are and none of them agreed with you although there have been several that we had to show them their payment record to prove that you are wrong. Upon seeing it they have all been satisfied that the billing has been done correctly.

    You not only owe Sean an apology but you owe us one as well but we won’t hold our breath as I’m sure it won’t be forth coming. This will be our last post concerning your misinformed posts so be it. Kareen

  205. member on September 21st, 2009 6:46 pm

    First, I’ve pulled out my statements for the month I joined Curves and the following ones. There is, as I said, a withdrawal just 30 days after joining and each month after. There is no point in me arguing about it here. That was never my intent, my intent was to make sure others were aware of the situation possibly effecting them too. You can of course dispute this with your bank just as I have done. I’ll leave that to the banks to figure out. I showed them my contract with Curves, and THEY have the dates that money was taken so it doesn’t really matter what the club’s records say, what matters is what the contract and bank records say. I’ve filled out the form to stop the club from withdrawing any more from my account. For anyone that didn’t get this done before their money was taken, they can get their money back. Your bank can tell you how.

    I’m sure many members have been outraged and discussed it with each other and maybe even discussed what has happened here since you sent us here, but I have not. I just got done explaining to Robert how silly it was for him to think people don’t talk. You really believe that I would make that same mistake? No, I’m sorry to say that I’m quite sure that I am not the only member irritated with the way this was handled. So no, no one “told you” who I am because I haven’t told anyone! Other than to grab the note I haven’t even been in the club since. And when I was, no one was there, no other members and not even Margaret.

    As to an apology, no, I didn’t owe Sean (I assume he is the moderator?) an apology. I’ve said and shown several times that I NEVER EVER accused HIM of anything. I never “screamed at him”, never “flamed him”, and despite the truly disrespectful comments here, comments that I see in posts by various people, including Robert (making fun of people who aren’t even here? Is that how you are helping?) still, with all that as the norm, I did none of that. Reading back over the old messages, it didn’t take long to get the gist and tenor of the posts here, so I take comfort in the irony of it when it is I who is accused of being disrespectful. I submitted my original message that I wrote to the moderator (along with his original response) EXACTLY as I wrote it ASKING what privileges ROBERT had with respect to comments and if ROBERT had been the one to remove the note after it had originally appeared. After posting it for others to judge for themselves I asked where in it I did ANY of what was claimed.

    Lastly, I do feel bad for those of you who have run into trouble with and even lost your businesses because of the actions of others. I really do. My family has been running small businesses since the 20s. Through the years and tough times, they’ve made and lost more money than I care to imagine. If someone defrauded you, you have remedies. I saw mention of an upcoming court case. Hopefully they can determine if that is the case. I am sympathetic to the plight of all of you and believe it or not, want it or not, I even feel sorry for you Robert. However, your loss does not give you the right to take from me. You believe you are allowed to take the money, we and our bank do not. So just as your court case will decide who is right for you with your case against Curves, the banks can decide who is right with this. If you were wronged, I hope that the courts are as swift for you as my bank was for me.

  206. unhappy on September 21st, 2009 9:08 pm

    Gee this member admitted she was wrong ” There is, as I said, a withdrawal just 30 days after joining and each month after” and yet refuses to apologize for any of her wrong accusations. She tries to place blame on someone else instead of accepting her own blame and doesn’t even bother to try to work it out with the company by going in to see her records. How much of a coward can she be. I doubt that the owners will go after her but by being a owner I can tell you she has signed a contract which will be up held and they have every right to make her pay. I have even had members dispute the charges with the banks and on every occasion we were successful on making the charges stick. She nothing but a free loader and unfortunately the world is full of them as times are ruff.

  207. Robert on September 21st, 2009 9:18 pm

    Its funny that she refuses to come in and discuss the problem but she obviously doesn’t communicate well. We know exactly who it is I can tell you it’s not worth discussing it here on this site. We will take her to collections if she refuses to pay and thus leave a black mark on her credit file. Now days that will do her more harm than the 34 dollars she is trying to cheat us out of. Normally I would have just let it go but in this case I can assure you she will be turned over to collections by the first of the month. She can explain it to them and it will be on her credit report for the rest of her life. So be it. End of story……………

  208. Wipedout on September 21st, 2009 11:50 pm

    Another California Curves closes abuptly.

    http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=66913&catid=2

  209. member on September 22nd, 2009 2:36 am

    I don’t know if you are intentionally misquoting me or if you are missing/ignoring the parts you don’t like. Either way, I got a good laugh because like many wives, I accuse my husband of “selective hearing” sometimes but this is a new one. It seems several here have bad cases of “selective reading”. unhappy You will note that I ALSO said that I paid my FIRST month UP FRONT then 30 days later my second month was taken.

    Since I guess I wasn’t clear with that, maybe if I lay it out for you it will help. Let’s say I joined on July 20 (I didn’t but it’s for illustration purposes and I don’t want to go through the math for all the months involved) and on THAT DAY I paid for my FIRST month’s dues. That has me paid from July 20 to August 20. Then “just 30 days later” on August 20 my SECOND month is taken which pays IN ADVANCED for August 20 to September 20. Now, when they take money on SEPTEMBER 20, what month does THAT pay for? That’s right, IN ADVANCED for September 20 to October 20 – just like I said.

    Or here, you say you are an owner too? Let’s say you moved into your building on January 15th. I’m sure you landlord had you pay your first month’s rent IN ADVANCE when you moved in (yes, I believe that normally the first month would be prorated, and rent would be due on the 1st, but my dues were not prorated and I’m trying not to change the dates too much to avoid any further confusion). Then “just [31] days later” on February 15th your landlord charges you rent again. You are now paid up through March 15th. We agreed so far? So now on March 15th your landlord once again charges you rent. BUT on March 18th the government seizes his property. And in the process they lock you and all the other tenants out. When you make your claim for lost rent, are you out 3 days rent or 28? Using the argument put forth here before, that we members should NOT be upset that hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars has been lost by us when Mr. Lay is losing his business, should you and the other tenants even be upset at the landlord? Maybe the landlord lost millions and you only lost a few thousand. A mere drop in his bucket.

    I’m trying to avoid dropping this to a lower level, and don’t want to be accused of the same name calling and making fun of people that I just expressed disdain for, but I mean, come on, THIS is basic accounting. If you can’t figure this out, maybe it is you who is “[trying] to place blame on someone else” for your problems.

    And what “blame” should I accept? Blame being shocked when we read that he was still going to be taking our dues despite the fact that they were closing the doors less than a week later? Blame for the imagined accusations against the moderator? Blame for NOT being bullied and taking the “cowards” way and letting my bank handle the heavy lifting?

    As to the contract I signed, I believe that Nevada law referring to closed gyms (shown above) addresses that. You must have “selectively not read” that too.

  210. guest on September 22nd, 2009 9:53 am

    My god, member, this family is losing their business of 20 years and you’re publicly berating them and beating them up over $34.

    How many people have you told this story to? While they act sympathetic, for $34 you’re telling everyone around you that you’re a sad human being completely lacking compassion for others. I hope the Lay’s realize they should just feel sorry for you because they’ll rebuild and get on with their lives, but you’ll still be a sad human being even after you get your $34 back.

  211. Cori on September 22nd, 2009 10:00 am

    I almost feel like sending her the $34. She’s definitely on the wrong website. I don’t think anyone here has any compassion for her.

  212. Another Not Cut Out on September 22nd, 2009 10:30 am

    Please, after closing my Club and still trying to find a way to pay my July’s home mortgage, I’ll send you the $34.00 myself…do you have a PO Box so that no one really knows how pathetic and who you are.

  213. unhappy on September 22nd, 2009 1:27 pm

    This unhappy member doesn’t make sense if you read her post from the beginning. It should be obvious that she is lying and can’t or won’t even go in to the club in question to confront the owner or manager. If her complaint was legitimate it would certainly be the normal and correct way to address the problem. Instead she resorts to trying to publicly berating them. What a coward and yet makes accusations that are obviously not true. Her inconsistently throughout her posts show she bends the truth to fit her story. She is a sad human being and really needs to seek out some form of psychological help. When they send her to collection and ruin her credit she will probably have a nervous breakdown. Even though she is nut’s to put it mildly lets all say a prayer for her as she certainly needs some form of help.

  214. member on September 23rd, 2009 3:02 am

    No need to send anything. I had my bank stop/reverse the payment. Thank you for your concern though. Of course, you seemed to miss the point. It’s not about ONE $34 payment that they weren’t entitled to, it’s about ALL payments that they took from members just days before closing. I realize that they are claiming otherwise and that they were entitled to that money, but I’m going to put stock in my bank’s records and not Robert’s. I recommend that any other member check THEIR records/bank statements. There is a limited time frame in which to pull back money taken this way.

    Just out of curiosity, since you seem to be hung up on the amount of money taken, what is the magic number where it’s no longer acceptable for someone to take money that they aren’t entitled to? $50? $100? $1000? Is it OK to take $34 from 100 people but not OK to take $3400 from 1 person? I’ve lost tens of thousands in stocks over the last two years. I’ve seen my retirement nest egg disappear before my eyes. Is it OK if I take $34 from anyone I can? I mean, it’s just $34 and I did lose a lot so show me some sympathy. I don’t know anymore. I always thought wrong was wrong. There are lots of people out of work around here, 13.5%. There are lots of people in financial straits. Lots of people losing their homes. Which ones are and which ones aren’t allowed to take money from others? And how much can they take?

    As to “unhappy”, your “selective reading” disability has caused you confusion that I will be unable to clear up. But please, feel free to continue making your “point”. The name calling certainly makes your argument stronger.

  215. guest on September 23rd, 2009 8:47 am

    member:
    The Lay’s club is closing because the cost of providing the service to members exceeded the amount members were paying.
    So that means that every month they’ve been losing money on your membership. Isn’t that great? You should be delighted… you not only got your money back but you know you benefited from someone else’s misfortune! And you’ve got $34 for celebrating at Cinnabon!

  216. platinum on September 23rd, 2009 9:02 am

    I too am a member of that club and I have spoken to over twenty members who all agree that this member is wrong. She needs to check her account and pay the September’s fee before they send it to collections as I’m sure they will.. But in any case as members we are surly sorry that they had to close as it was a beautiful club and we will all miss it very much. The owners were excellent and the trainers were all very nice and motivating. It is a shame that the franchisor has turned out to so crooked. We had no idea that there home offices were treating the franchises like that. Shame on them and we all hope the best for the owners in their future endeavors. Oh, just for everyone’s information the owners refused to let us know who it is that is complaining but we all figured it out and she has always been a constant complainer and never had anything good to say about anything in the circut while during her workout. While this last week of going in has been sad and Friday will be the last day it has been a pleasure not having her around constantly complaining who she is being ripped off and taken by advantage of by someone or some business.

  217. CURVES: Outspoken Franchisee to Close Club : Franchise Pick - Picking the Perfect Franchise on September 23rd, 2009 10:44 am

    [...] Leave a Comment // Outspoken Curves for Women critic and franchise owner Robert Lay will close the doors of his Las Vegas club this Friday.  Robert Lay’s journey as a Curves Owner is chronicled and discussed on Unhappy Franchisee (Read CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story) [...]

  218. ADMIN on September 23rd, 2009 11:03 am

    Condolences to Robert & Kareen Lay on the closing of their Curves club. Best wishes for success in all future endeavors.

    CURVES: Outspoken Franchisee to Close Club

  219. rlay on September 23rd, 2009 5:00 pm

    Thank you ADMIN for your kind words and even though our last club will close on this Friday September 25th our legal fight will continue with Curves International on two fronts. We will have our day in court sooner than later at this point and of course we will still be there to help other owners who going through the nightmare caused by Curves International and Howard Heavin. Closing will be bitter sweet but it will give us more time to devote to this site and the legal issues concerning all clubs. Robert and Kareen

  220. Diane on September 25th, 2009 8:36 pm

    Two years ago when we were given a preview of the Curves Smart I was all excited. I was thinking this will put Curves above all other fitness clubs because of the technology. I came across a website http://www.shapesforwomen.com that had a similar setup to curves including the mytrak success coach. I had emailed my AD and told her my concerns of someone opening up such a club in my area and without franchise fees could sell memberships at a lower cost. She said not to worry because Curves had bought the rights to use this software. I have now noticed that the shapes for women no longer has the mytrak system. But as I was researching other things came across this site http://www.sterlingfitnessequipment.com/mytrak_m.html

    This is also another way to own a Curves like gym. I am also closing my doors at the end of this month and to be quite honest it was the purchase of Curves Smart that finally did me in. Had I known you could own one of these other clubs and have the success coach without going thru Curves I wouldnt have done it. I feel for the other club owners that have invested lots of money. I am also in debt up to my eyeballs but not as much as others. I wish I had found a site like this two years ago when I purchased mine. I worked long hard hours to try and keep my club going and it is a relief to be done with it all and find a normal job that actually pays. Good luck to everyone and God Bless

  221. unhappy on September 25th, 2009 11:13 pm

    You are so right about the curves smart. It was sold as new technology but is over ten years old and never worked than and doesn’t work now. The advance workout is a much better workout than curves smart. what gets me is the owners who in thier own mind know the truth still try to sell it to there members like the clubs just down the road from me. They are no better than Heavin and won’t admit that the curves smart does not work. I guess some snakes just like to lie in the same bed as the others and are only out for greed regardless of the truth.

  222. Rande LaDue on September 28th, 2009 2:48 pm

    As the owner of the PACE hydraulic circuit training program (the very first Curves club in Harlingen, TX had our PACE equipment as Gary Heavin was an independent sales rep for PACE), I have helped thousands of people successfully open their own non-franchise clubs over the years. Not being locked into a franchise formula, my customers enjoy the flexibility to format their clubs any way they want (including additional profit centers, products and services). Because of the large number of Curves clubs closing in the last couple of years, I have sold many circuits to those people who see an opportunity and a need to service Curves members left high and dry. Many of these customers are offering a combination of women only hours during the day, then coed hours in the evening. It makes sense, especially in smaller markets, to appeal to as much of the population as possible. And let’s face it, there are just as many out of shape men out there as women and many of them are just as intimidated with the hardcore clubs as women. You will have no where near the same number of men as women, but if you can increase memberships by 20-25% by offering coed hours in the evening, it may be something to consider.

    To make things clear on MyTrak, they do have an exclusive agreement with Curves for women only clubs. However, some of my coed customers have also added MyTrak to their PACE equipment with great results. I am familiar with MyTrak; they make a great product that I strongly endorse, but they cannot sell to any women only clubs.

    I invite anyone interested in PACE or our Kids PACE Express program to visit http://www.pacegroupexercise.com or read my blogs at http://kidspaceexpress.blogspot.com/2009/09/coed-circuit-training-clubs.html.

  223. Ginger on October 5th, 2009 2:22 am

    I too am an owner that has closed and have been harassed by CI. I have posted many updates to their behavior. I search the Internet frequently for news of CI’s final demise. I just know I will read about them having to file bankruptcy soon.

    I did come across this lawsuit between Go-figure and CI. Intertesting!

    http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-txsdce/case_no-4:2009cv02930/case_id-696994/

  224. Ginger on October 5th, 2009 2:28 am

    I found the listing of all suits by and against CI here.

    http://dockets.justia.com/search?q=Curves+International%2C+Inc.

  225. unhappy on October 5th, 2009 1:06 pm

    Ginger,
    I just went over the list you provided but it is not all the lawsuits that have been filled and is only partially correct. I know of many more that have been filed that don’t show up on that list. It appeared to me that those are the ones that have been filed in the federal district court in Waco. Even so there are many more in that court as the group action lawsuit is filed in that court also and has over 200 litigants with over 800 ready to be filed depending on the outcome of that trail. The group action lawsuit is set to go to trail in March of 2010.

  226. Donna on October 8th, 2009 8:40 am

    HELP!!! I have read some of the horror stories listed. I to have to close my club. I can not get anyone to return my calls from CI. I do not know what to do. I have had my club almost 7 years and have paid my dues. I do not have 10,000 dollars. Because of the recession I have to close. I love my members and hate to dissapoint them but I have no choice. The closing packet was sent to me but I’m scared to send it in. Is there any help out there? I have to do what I need to do today. Will they let me out without the 10,000 fee. Has anyone out there been in my shoes. Please someone respond as I need advice and help NOW.

  227. CA ex-owner on October 8th, 2009 8:21 pm

    We’ve all been there! Our club has been closed for over a year. We refused to pay the $10,000. They emailed us two more times, first lowering it to $8,000, then to $6,000 – we still refused. Next came a letter from Curves Legal stating we now owed fees for the remainder of our franchise agreement, somewhere in the amount of over $42,000, with a fair amount of scare tactics! (Read our story above: CA Ex-owner on October 16th, 2008) We then sent a letter back to legal, refusing to pay anything and the reasons why. Now I will knock on wood before I say this, but it has been over a year that we sent them that letter and we have not heard a thing yet.

    We are not part of the legal action that many of the people above are pursuing, and I’m sure someone will respond on how to proceed in that direction, or direct you to on what other options you may have. Remember, you are not alone, we’ve all been through this horrible experience. It hardly makes it better, but at least maybe knowing there are so many of us out there, you might feel a little better…

  228. Another Curver on October 9th, 2009 12:15 pm

    Hi Donna.
    Like You, I had to close my club. I closed it Feb 28th this year. I decided to close it on the Sunday before that, because my landlady told me that Friday that she was putting “for Lease” signs in my window that weekend. On Sunday she told me to have all my stuff out of the place by March 1st.
    Of course I did everything I could to keep Curves International properly informed and I asked them for advice on the best way to proceed. They contradicted themselves, ignored information I gave them, gave me conflicting advice and instructions, and generally sounded like fools and idiots. I also had Curves Smart. The one thing they did spell out, there is no “standard” $10,000 fee. At least Not Anymore. They said, if I write a letter asking for a settlement instead of paying all the outstanding royalties and ad fees, then they will put it to a review board and the review board will make a suggestion for a settlement. Then they told me not to write a letter but to hold onto the closing packet.
    Well, then they forgot about me for 6 or 8 or 10 weeks. I think it was sometime in May that I got a notice that I owed some $40,000 for the balance of royalties and such. At that time they also called me to urge me to quickly remove the curves smart equipment (which I had been leasing) from the machines before my landlady took posession of them. Well, in Feb and March I had given them as much notice as possible that my landlady took possession of the machines on March 1st and that I had pursued all the leads they’d given me to find buyers for the curves smart and that they had, by email and by phone, told me absolutely not to remove the curves smart from the machines (because it would void the warranty). even when i told them the warranty would be irrelevant once she took the machines, they still told me, in email and on the phone, not to remove it. so of course, i had no way to do it then (in may or whatever)
    however, i did inform them that i was filing for bankruptcy. they never asked for the bankruptcy attorneys name or the case number. i am just now filing, so they havent gotten any legal notices yet either.
    since then I have not heard one word. it’s been what, 7 months since I closed. ridiculous.
    oh by the way, they did collect royalties from me on March 5th. the one time my bank granted me an overdraft (with fee) was for that charge. so i closed that account.
    i do have another franchise, that i’m struggling to hold onto, and you would think maybe that’s why they’re giving me some slack. when i closed the bank account, i told them i would only give them the info for drafting me on the other franchise if they gave me a new draft authorization only for the only franchise, and that i would sue them if they ever tried to draft anything on the closed business from that account. i told them i’d take it to the ach review commission and then they’d lose all their privilidges for using ach.
    i believe that is a real possibility.
    they are very frustrating but i think they have a backlog of closed cases. i have been told by others (gossip?) that they are understaffed and overworked. of course they’re busy with the big lawsuit that “unhappy” is part of it. and all the little lawsuits. i would like to know more about gofigure’s lawsuit against them too.
    my attorney told me not to worry about any of it, because our state law supercedes whatever was written in the franchise agreement.
    and i wonder if there isn’t a time limit on their taking legal steps? does anyone know that?

  229. unhappy on October 10th, 2009 1:50 am

    Yes there is a time limit on them taking legal steps but I believe it is 4 years although it maybe 5. I will have more info on the laws suits in the coming weeks including updates on the go figure filling so stay tuned.

  230. Donna on October 10th, 2009 10:46 am

    To another Curver,
    What state are you from? CI is telling me I have to give away (women’s prison or another Curve) or destroy my equipment. If that’s the case how can a landlord just take possession of it? What can they do with it? I read in my CI agreement that they can buy it back for the sum not exceeding $1,000. If that’s the case then I guess it is mine so how can they tell me what do do with it. Did you file for bankruptcy? I don’t know about you but I feel I am in a nightmare that I want to wake up from. I believe that with Robert’s help I will wake up and I will have the strength to fight the monsters and win. Best of luck to you and I know what you are feeling. Would like to hear from you.

  231. Another Curver on October 11th, 2009 3:46 pm

    Hi Donna. Thanks for your response. I was not early enough to get into the lawsuit with Robert, but I’m watching it and I’ve talked to him. Thank you.
    I am in WA state. My contract also said that they had first right of refusal to buy it back from me for up to $1000, but that was only upon completion of the 10 yr licensce. I did not complete the 10 years, but it does make it sound like we purchased the equipment, doesn’t it. (It makes me think there’s more grounds for a class action lawsuit. But I digress.) My CPA and the IRS also thought it made it sound like a purchase, and I had been using that in my accounting methods (both for depreciation and writing off the initial start up investment).
    Why did I let my landlord “seize” my equipment? I had no other choice, really. I didn’t have any funds for storage (I suppose I could have put it into my yard and covered it with tarps, but that still would have involved getting it moved and I would have to hire someone at that point, time was an issue) and I already knew several other franchisees who had closed their doors and been “threatened” by CI and had tried to comply to their demands for how to get rid of the equipment. The problem is their is too much of it out there, so one guy I know has three circuits in his backyard “shed”.

    Also, in my state at least, Tenant Landlord law gives the landlord remedies like auctioning off my business equipment in the case of my failure to fulfill my lease, and that supercedes Curves International’s claim to have me destroy the equipment (according to my landlord’s attorney, my bankruptcy attorney, and the local sheriff’s office).

    And since I’m already out of compliance with their requests by simply refusing to pay them their fees for a business that had to close because of lack of money, I’m not worried about it. I’m not planning on going to Waco anytime soon though, because from what I understand then the law would have something on me.

    One thing I did worry about, for 5 seconds, was when I found out that another Curves that closed was trying to donate their circuit to a non-profit retirement center in the territory of my franchise that is still open. But I can’t control everything. There just aren’t enough hours in the day.

  232. Another Curver on October 11th, 2009 3:50 pm

    Isn’t it amazing how many ambiguities are involved in dealing with CI? The more I think about it, the more I feel like they try alot of “stuff” by intimidation and very little by actual legal right. But maybe that’s true throughout the business realm. I guess it’s why lawyers keep so busy. Too bad though.

  233. unhappy on October 12th, 2009 12:50 am

    I don’t believe that’s it true throughout the business realm but it is certainly true with business that are run by unscrupulous individuals such as Curves International seems to be. All of the closing procedures such as the closing fee, signing of a so called ” mutual release”, and ect.ect. are all done through intimidation, trickery, and lies and has no legal president in the courts at all. But I would agree that the business lawyers stay very busy as a result of all the law suits brought on by the individuals who gotten taken by the unscrupulous business owners. It’s really unfortunate when those unscrupulous business owners use Christianity as a selling tool to help perpetuate the fraud and as we all know, Curves International does that as well.

  234. unhappy on October 12th, 2009 1:08 am

    Hi Another Curver,

    I don’t quite follow your statement of ” I’m not planning on going to Waco anytime soon though, because from what I understand then the law would have something on me.” What would they have on you? You have done nothing wrong that I can see and should have nothing to worry about. Once the first group action lawsuit goes through with a favorable ruling for the litigants there will be a second and probably 3rd wave with quite possibly a class action lawsuit to boot.. You may want to consider joining one of them as it is you ( along with all the other owners) that have been been wronged not CI. They really don’t have a leg to stand on. Not this time- No Way–No How While justice has not been swift, March of 2010 is just around the corner and approaching fast.

  235. D on October 12th, 2009 12:21 pm

    Robert was right on. Settlement from 10,000 now wanting 2,500. And its only been 12 days. I don’t close until Oct. 30th. They were also nice and I wouldn’t have to pay it until the end of Nov. I wonder If I ask nice they’ll say i don’t have to give away my equipment to another Curves or destroy it -I can do what I want with it. What do you think?

  236. CURVES: Negotiating the $10,000 Closing Fee : Unhappy Franchisee on October 12th, 2009 2:38 pm

    [...] the post CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story, here’s a recent exchange regarding the $10,000 closing [...]

  237. CURVES FRANCHISE: Negotiating Closing Fees : Franchise Pick - Picking the Perfect Franchise on October 12th, 2009 3:01 pm

    [...] failing, soon-to-close and closed Curves franchise owners regularly share information, advice and mutual support to each other on the Unhappy [...]

  238. tickedoff on October 12th, 2009 4:28 pm

    Has any curves owners paid a lower settlement and been able to keep there machines?

  239. tickedoff on October 12th, 2009 4:35 pm

    If so was the equipment in the mutual release you signed part of your settlement

  240. unhappy on October 12th, 2009 8:45 pm

    The equipment is yours to do with want you want period……The mutual release is only to prevent you from filling a lawsuit. Don’t sign it ever as by doing so you give up your rights to join any type of lawsuit against Curves International and Howard Heavin. Yet they can and will still sue you!!!!!!!!!!

  241. Another Curver on October 12th, 2009 8:45 pm

    Unhappy, thanks for your encouragement. You’re right, of course, I have NOT done anything wrong. I just meant I do know where I stand in Wa state courts. And I am looking forward to the next wave of legal action. Thanks.

  242. phil on October 24th, 2009 9:53 am

    First of all whoever said this, But the system is specifically designed for the female body. The founders of Curves originated with co-ed and it didn’t fly.”

    Gary didnt design anything! He stole the idea and has great PR skills so he leads you to believe that its his idea.
    Google.com pace exercise group. THAT is the ORIGINAL hydraluic workout. This workout is NOT designed for woman ! It was originally designed for people in physical therapy to introduce light resistance to their muscle.s
    NOTHING HE DOES IS ORIGINAL, IT IS ALL STOLEN.

    Curves is down 5000 clubs this year, does that sound like a growing franchise?
    No.

    This company wont be around in the next few years.

    It makes me sick to see how good he is at marketing and how dishonest he is AND how people believe this individual.
    He INVENTED curves smart to make it seem like this was the answer to member retention yet clubs are closing with or without curves smart.
    I hope he is sued heavily and loose his company.

    This man is no different than the crooks you see on wall street that had to have their billions and would hurt anyone to get them!

    He should be sued and be forced to pay back the money he HAS STOLEN from people wanting a business opportunity..
    What a THIEF and dishonest person..

  243. phil on October 24th, 2009 10:33 am

    I get a kick out of how curves markets curves smart. Custom designed workout tailored to your specific goals all on NON ADJUSTABLE EQUIPMENT that DOESNT change resistance, reps or anything.
    Being a fitness professional, this is a downright lie!

    I love how they market their curves smart in the new book, by saying it is good for sport specific training??
    The keyword there being SPECIFIC. Curves is cookie cutter.

    Its all one big lie and great marketing. Curves smart does push the user , but there is no POSSIBLE way it can be tailored to your goals. How it is supposed to tailor to your body type when it is all the same??

    We were once a club with 700+ members and we now down to 594. Due in part to the recession and other things.
    We may not be here in the next two years…

    its a shame to see..

    Lies, lies,lies..

  244. Winded Curves on October 24th, 2009 5:52 pm

    I am the spouse of a former Curves owner in Southeast Virginia. My wife and her partner closed their Curves last year. The echo still reverberates monthly as we pay back rent and business loans. Like many others, I have been checking this site periodically in hope that the Curves goons are not going to show up at my door. I am somewhat mystified by two faces of Curves we all see on the web. The glowing reports from franchise magazines and the reality of franchises closing at the speed of light. I am curious about the disposition of the equipment. We paid for it, it’s on our business loan, yet are we to destroy it? We attempted to donate it to the local school system for a weight loss program but were denied. Right now it’s wrapped up in the barn. I think our horse is even bored with it.
    Any ideas?

  245. fitdude on October 24th, 2009 8:24 pm

    Phil;

    Just for your information, Gary Heavin did not invent the Curves Smart system. It is actually technology that is about 10 years old called MyTrak. Yes, it is a good system to challenge the user to work harder than their last workout, but used on non-adjustable equipment like Curves, it does nothing to increase the load. The user is supposed to push harder than their last workout, but eventually they will reach a point where they are pushing as fast/hard as they can and hit a plateau. At that point, no electronic bells and whistles are going to do anything except monitor the fact that they have stagnated. Any certified trainer can tell you that in order to keep getting results, you need to increase either the frequency of exercise, the intensity of exercise (which they have already done and maxed out) or the duration of exercise (or change the type of exercise).
    You are correct that the Curves one-size-fits-all workout is not sports specific; nor is it a progressive program. The MyTrak system does not increase or decrease the resistance; it merely monitors the effort of the user encouraging them to stay in the “green” zone. It’s a nice feedback system to help retain bored members- for awhile; eventually they will drop out as well as you are witnessing.

  246. Den on October 25th, 2009 3:10 am

    Good chance I’ll get slammed, since this post goes against the flow, but ANYONE can Google and see for themselves. So, to correct you, with hydraulic resistance exercise the resistance does change. Actually, it must change. The faster the movement, the greater the resistance. So, the greater the number of reps in a given amount of time with the same ROM (and you want full ROM to get muscle overload) means faster motion and therefore greater resistance. Hatred of all things Curves can’t change the fundamentals of fluid dynamics.

    The “weakness” with Hydraulic Resistance (and find me a system that doesn’t have a weakness), is that it favors endurance over increasing mass. In other words, you aren’t going to choose this type of exercise to “bulk up”. But honestly, what percentage of women out there are trying to “bulk up”?

    Not trying to get into a brawl here, but since many of us who have nothing to do with Curves use hydraulic resistance as part of our regimen, it’s pretty important to get the facts straight. Hate the player, not the game. :) Thanks.

  247. Jerrud on October 26th, 2009 8:23 pm

    I closed my club on August 31st and Curves told me that I would have to pay 2,500 by Sept 15 and have all the paper work to them. I am still waiting for the curvessmart paperwork to show up so I can have the new curves sign off. I received a notice today that I now owe more than 25,000.

    Is there an attorney that I can contact. I have numerous emails from Curves and they never get back to you.

  248. phil on October 27th, 2009 2:26 pm

    Hey Fitdude,
    Yep, I know. Hey Den, THERE IS NO ADDED RESISTANCE WITH HYDARULICS other than pushing harder the harder it pushed back..thats it.
    There is NO GPO, graduall progressive overload that is NEEDED to keep the body changing!
    Women dont generally BULK UP! Hydraluic ressitance mimics that of water fitness. Ever do resistance training in a pool with paddles? Thats the same level of resistance that you’ll get with hydraulics.
    In fact, hydraulics were INITIALLY designed for people out of rehab that needed some simple load beaing to help them strenghten their muscles.
    fitdude is right. Curves smart doesnt adjust ANYTHING to the workout, its simply a monitor of progress that will evantually plateau.
    Oh and Fitdude, I was actually being sarcastic about Gary inventing curves smart. Its his half assed effort to help member rention WHICH IT DOESNT DO!

    Another fact, Den, google Pace exercise group .This is the original hydraulic.
    He steals the idea, takes it o mexico , makes cylinders down there for dirt cheap and gives himself a name that appeals to women, CURVES.
    Now years later, hes lost half of his clubs in the US alone.
    There will come a time that this company will eventually go away. It may not be for another 5 years or so, but it was a fad!

    You cant keep doing curves with or without curves smart and expect results, but the thing here is taht people believe him!
    He has great salesmen skills.

    I went to( had to) go to a regional meeting with one of this puppets preaching about. Having been a trainer for over 10 years, this made me laugh.

    His puppet said, Gary says if you can walk you can squat?! WTF!?
    He clearly has never trained anyone.
    Den, the fcat is that missing GPO, this exercise program is limited and will eventually go away.

    I heard that Curves is going bankrupt too! This company does deserve to go out of business because of the lies they preach and how they decieve people.
    this company is no different then the crooks on wall street! Greed driven.

  249. Den on October 28th, 2009 1:46 pm

    You are still misstating the facts. There is no comparable change in resistance through the stroke in a pool in your example (unless the pool is filled with something other than water or is pressurized). With Hydraulic resistance in a cylinder, as I said, when you increase speed you increase resistance. It’s not a simple “push back”. When you move an object through a hydraulic material under pressure and change the speed, the resistance changes. Period. If you up the reps from say 10 to 15 in the same time period, you must have increased the speed (unless you know something about physics, space and time, that I don’t and can do more reps in the same time period WITHOUT changing the speed) and therefore the resistance will have changed. This is not my opinion, it’s a simple fact of how object move in hydraulic materials. You don’t have to believe me, like I said, I’m sure ANYONE can Google something like “hydraulic resistance equation” and literally see for themselves.

    So, if you have someone do the same exercise in the same time period with the same ROM but increase the reps, you will have increased the average resistance across the entire exercise.

    As far as what it was originally designed for, really? That is going to be the crux of your argument: “it was INITIALLY designed for THIS and THAT is ALL it will ever be.”?

    That’s utter nonsense. By that logic, computers should go back to punch card days – or further. None of us should be using the internet and “the wheel” should be used for what? What shall we say it was “INITIALLY designed for”? Come on now, to say that ANYTHING is limited by its original design – never to be improved upon – is just plain silly…

    Is it perfect? No. But like I said, find me the perfect program without limitations.

    As I have no direct experience with the Curves Smart, I can’t address it specifically, but I did make some calls to the actual manufacturer who has nothing to do with Curves and from what they explained, it seems to monitor things such as ROM, speed and acceleration, reps, heart rate, etc… and modifies their “target” each workout to progress to their goal. They said it can be tailored and you can choose different fitness levels. They have a K.I.S.S. red, yellow green light system to tell the user if they are going to fast, slow or just right. I am interested in seeing it at work as from what they explained it seems interesting.

    As to the rest of your message, rant all you want about Curves and the people who run it, that doesn’t matter to or affect me and has no bearing on my position, so I won’t waste my time or anyone else’s addressing your accusations and claims.

  250. fitdude on October 28th, 2009 3:55 pm

    Den;
    I agree with you (and I think Phil does as well) that pushing faster against a hydraulic cylinder will produce more force. But let’s face it, a 50-60 year old woman can only push so fast in 30 seconds; she will eventually reach a plateau where she is pushing as fast as she can and is only going to be able to perform x number of reps in that time. She will also reach a plateau in fitness results; that is when they get frustrated, bored and drop out. I have personally heard this from hundreds of Curves members/staff. This is the built-in inherent flaw in the Curves system- limited membership lifespan due to limited results.
    Without being able to restrict the flow of the hydraulic fluid like Pace equipment does, Curves equipment is not truly adjustable.

  251. Den on October 28th, 2009 7:29 pm

    Fitdude, And a 50-60 y/o can only lift so much. Or run so fast. Or walk so far. The same can all be said for a 20-30 or 30-40 y/o. Which of course was one of my points, no regimen is without its limits. There is ALWAYS going to be SOME limiting factor(s). You just need to decide what your goal is and find the plan with the factor(s) that limits you the least. And NO PROGRAM is a “catch all”.

    I agree with you that there are limits, I said so in both my posts, BUT, the limit here is actually tied to the benefit. As I stated, since a person doing this type of program would NOT be looking to “bulk up” any increase in weight (resistance) would be tied to an increase in reps. That is exactly what “non-adjustable” hydraulic cylinders do, in order to increase your weight (resistance) you HAVE TO increase your reps. What phil deems as a fatal flaw is actually an integral part of the program. Think of it like a governor on a U-Haul truck. It stops you from going over 65mph (limiting you) but it does so to keep you (and others) safe (benefit). Now if you were trying to gain mass you would want to look at a program the would allow you to add resistance (weight) without tying it to increased reps. But that is NOT what this type of cylinder and program is designed to do. So criticizing it for not doing what it’s not trying to do is just plain silly. It’d be like taking that U-Haul on the quarter mile and complaining because you lost the race! 

    I get that folks here are angry with the people running Curves, but as I said in my initial e-mail, “hate the player, not the game”. You may agree with what I’m saying but phil clearly does not. He said and then said again in his response that neither reps nor resistance changes when using this type of hydraulic cylinder. That is patently false.

  252. phil on October 29th, 2009 6:40 am

    Den,
    I wasnt saying that the hydraulic is limited to water aerobics. You are missing my point. Curves is a fixed design. There is no GPO with this program whatsoever. How long have you been doing this??
    My point is that the workout is limited and if you are going to sit here and tell me that machines are adjustable you are not seeing reality!
    How hard can a 60 year old women push?
    the limiting factor is usually the person, In THIS case the limited factor is the machine. By pusing faster it does produce more force yes, it does. Im not disagreeing with you.
    So Den, let me get this stragiht, you believe that having no adjustable equipment is part of the program?

    LEt me ask you then, why, the original equipment , PACE exercise group is adjustable??Do you know how many people have been injured because they are FORCED to use a machine that they can’t adjust for their limb length?? So they dropped out? yet this is part of the design?!? Do you know anything about biomechanics???To even make that statement is nonsense.

    The non adjustable factors here have nothing to do with women gaining size. Most women dont get big. They dont ahve enough testerone to get big! You do see larger women, but in general, they dont get bulky..

    There is some added resistance here with hydraulics, but in order to GET to that added resistane you need to push pretty dam hard and for a 50+ year old women, it can be tough.

    Den, why is it that people have gotten in great shape using free weights and traditional cardio equipment? The limitation is always the person. But in the curves system its the machines.
    We had a someone come into my club to do the bicep tricep, which is more like hammer curl than a bicep curl. Regardless,the womens arms were too short to fit into the machine correctly and it didnt feel right. It hurt. So she has to skip it because her arms are too short, but THIS is part of the program you are telling me??
    I agree with you as a whole, but disagree with the adjustable statement.
    Oh and Den, explain to me why pace is adjsutable and curves isnt when pace is the original, dude you have your facts ROYALLY screwed up with thie adjustbility or clearly know nothing about biomechanics..
    HAve you personally ever trained anyone??
    HAve you ever told someone to just sit in a seat that was not designeg for him or her because, maybe she was too tall or too short??but this is part of the design, that the machine wont adjust to your height in any way..

    any ordinary macine in a gym will adjust to the taller or shorter person, but curves doesnt so this is part of the design?
    do you know how many women have been hurt forcing their bodies into fixed length machines that were too short for their bodies?? do me a favor, before you make a statement like the flaw is actually part of the program read a bit about bimechanics..
    curves or PACE was designed to get overweight women from the house, on the couch to a basic exercise program.
    THATS IT! are you going to argue that too?
    And I did agree wtih our initial statement, more resistance if you push super hard…

    Anyway, have a good one.
    Phil

  253. Den on October 29th, 2009 7:26 pm

    Again, I’ll address the relevant bits and leave the other stuff to someone else. How long have I been doing this? While my qualifications will not change the laws of physics, I’ve been a doctor for 20 years and my expertise is specifically in the field of biomechanics. I work with injured and FIT individuals. Whoops. And you?

    I’ll start with these statements first: “There is some added resistance here with hydraulics, but in order to GET to that added resistane you need to push pretty dam hard…” and “And I did agree wtih our initial statement, more resistance if you push super hard…”

    That was neither MY premise nor my statement and neither one is accurate. That was your statement I guess and your misunderstanding of how hydraulic resistance works; which is where you’ve been wrong from the get go. It’s NOT pushing HARDER that creates more resistance, it’s pushing FASTER that creates more resistance which in turn causes you to push harder. THE KEY here is that you don’t have a greater resistance UNTIL you can increase the reps. PERIOD. If you don’t (won’t) understand even that critical difference, than nothing else matters. If you are going to insist that 1 + 1 = 3 we can’t move on. However, for the benefit of others who can see past their rage against Curves, I’ll try to explain. For you Phil, unless you are willing to except the basic laws at work here, there really isn’t anything else I can do to educate you so stop reading now.

    “I wasnt saying that the hydraulic is limited to water aerobics. You are missing my point.”

    No, you didn’t say it is limited to water aerobics. But I didn’t say you did. What you DID say was “Ever do resistance training in a pool with paddles? Thats the same level of resistance that you’ll get with hydraulics.” And THAT is completely false and I told you why.

    Let me be clear and for the 4th or 5th time – I never said that the equipment was adjustable. In that message you stated at least 3 or 4 times that I said that non-adjustable hydraulic cylinders are adjustable (and I’m not even including your out of left field stuff stating that I said all that about limb/height adjustments). What I said, and stand by, is that the RESISTANCE changes with change in velocity. It HAS TO. I can be NO OTHER WAY. Seriously, please, stop asking me to justify/back-up statements and claims that YOU are making! I can’t do it, I don’t think anyone can. But I can back up my statements, Google “hydraulic resistance in a container” or some variety of that and I’m sure you will see for your own eyes that equations that govern this.

    I don’t care what PACE originally wanted to do. But if you do care, I suggest you REALLY look at what their ORIGINAL equipment was. Their current system is vastly different to what they started with. But I guess that’s OK right? Again, I’m not debating you on “Curves”. You made patently false comments with respect to the usefulness and design of non-adjustable hydraulic resistance equipment. THAT is what I am addressing. Further statements that I didn’t make: ALL your stuff regarding adjustability for height/limb length. What does ANY of that have to do with MY correcting you on your misunderstanding on how hydraulics work? But, since you are throwing a new item into the mix and are stuck on PACE equipment as the be-all-end-all, with few exceptions PACE equipment is no more nor no less adjustable for limb length than most other equipment like this. Proper positioning of the user on the equipment is critical and nearly identical on them all. But again, not what we were discussing. Shall we discuss padding thickness next? Would you like to accuse me of arguing that leather is a better covering than vinyl or vice versa?

    If no one was to take a good idea and make it better, we’d all be driving Fords and taking one type of antibiotic. Get over it already. PACE makes a good system, but it’s NOT the only system and just because something isn’t PACE doesn’t mean it’s crap. And likewise, (and here is YOUR blind spot) just because Curves uses stuff that the rest of us use doesn’t mean it’s crap either. By that “logic” anyone using running squares is using crap too. I don’t know what else they do there, but I stretching OK? Can I recommend proper hydration? My point here is, and has been throughout, that you need to get over your hatred for these people and see that even if they stole everything they use and some of the stuff they use is improperly implemented, that that doesn’t mean EVERYONE else using similar stuff is wasting their time or can’t do SOMETHING ELSE with it.

    1. “any ordinary macine in a gym will adjust to the taller or shorter person, but curves doesnt so this is part of the design?”
    2. “curves or PACE was designed to get overweight women from the house, on the couch to a basic exercise program. THATS IT!”
    3. “are you going to argue that too?”

    The “too” in statement 3 assumes that I made statement 1. I did not. Also, with statement 2 you are yet again assuming that I am doing anything other than correcting your misunderstanding of how hydraulic resistance changes or that I wish to debate you on the value of Curves. I am not and do not wish to. And as I said before, just because Curves or PACE designed their regimen to do one thing doesn’t mean that EVERYONE ELSE can’t do something else with similar equipment. Can free weights ONLY be used to build mass? Can swimming ONLY be used for rehabilitation? Can steroids only be used to hit home runs?

    I don’t know how many people are “forced” to do anything in a gym, so no, I can’t tell you how many have then been injured as a result of that. Can you? I’m mean actual numbers, not another guess.

    Man, this is fun. Thanks stumbleupon!

  254. unhappy on November 2nd, 2009 4:29 pm

    Glad your having fun but the real question is have you personally been ripped off by Curves International and the crook Gary Howard Heavin? If you have and want to know what legql steps to take send an email to Sean at this site and he will forward it to me and I will be in touch with you quickly.

  255. Norma McClure on November 2nd, 2009 6:55 pm

    I’m glad I came across this site today. I’m a new, and excited, member of our local Curves. I’ve never looked forward to exercise until Curves. I know the owner wants to sell her franchise, although I don’t know 100% why. In part it’s because she works another full-time job. I’m rather upset that that detail wasn’t told me when I signed up as a member, but so be it now. I’ve been toying with looking into buying it, but now I’m putting the brakes on that possibility big-time since I’ve read of all the troubles. I’d been doing some homework and knew that there has been “some” kind of trouble surrounding Gary Heavin, but it wasn’t really until I reached this site that I learned just what the problem is. Based upon the economy and the financial problems that CI has, or will have, I’m concerned that my location won’t last. That’ll hurt me as a member but not at all as it would if I were the franchisee. I’m SO sorry for all of you hardworking owners seeing your dreams dashed and money gone. I wish you much luck on bringing the truth forth through your legal actions. And thank you for allowing me to clue in before I did something I’d probably regret.

  256. tickedoff on November 2nd, 2009 8:51 pm

    Norma, Be real glad you found this web site. I don’t know where you are located but DO NOT consider this. Either the owner of your Curves really does not know whats going on in the CI world or she knows and wants to bail and give someone else the headaches. I just closed my club last Friday. It was like losing someone to death. I put my heart and soul into my business, loved my girls who were loyal all 7 years but Curves would not budge and change me to a percentage rate without me signing another contract, NOT!!! I did not know what was going on in the CI world until I had to make the difficult decision to close as I had not heard from anyone from CI in over 7 years. Their money was there to take so they were happy.
    I gogled for someone who had closed to help me and I found the horror stories. I was done no matter what after that. I believe in the concept but I can not continue with a company that has done terrible things to people who truely care about women health and a company I can not believe in. I too, I’m afraid am in for a real bumpy ride from CI but i will ride the waves with all the dignity and grace as possible. I am not a product of them as I refused to sell my franchise to a perspective buyer that heard I was closing, stopped and asked about my club. I could never do that to someone knoowing what I know now. Do yourself a favor and if you see the word franchise, run as fast as you can the other way.

  257. phil on November 3rd, 2009 4:47 pm

    Den
    there is no point in arguing with you..you are a doctor, im a trainer. We have different perspectives about fitness..and I hate to break the news to you, but I took courses specifically in water fitness and the resistance is exactly the same..

    but I guess the guy who has 3 PH’ds that taught the course doesnt know as much as Den..

    My statements werent false..and yes you are a doctor, what KIND of doctor? Medical doctor?
    I guess you know more than veteran trainers in the fitness industry since you are a DOCTOR!
    By the way, you sound like like a real asshole, did I tell you THAT part?

    There is no GPO with the curves system whatsoever! After about 4-6 weeks the woman will plateau and theres it nothing that the curves system can do. But they dont tell you that.

    This is a horrendus franchise to have invested in. No corporate support and nothing but lies.

  258. phil on November 3rd, 2009 4:52 pm

    den if you are so dam intelligent being a DOCTOR and all why did you come up with the idea??

    or why didnt you steal the idea and market the hell out of it making it seem wonderful?

  259. phil on November 3rd, 2009 5:29 pm

    Den,
    by the way in a traditional gym, you are never forced to fit into a machine like you are in a curves machine..
    the curves answer is “:skip it”

  260. tickedoff on November 3rd, 2009 5:51 pm

    Is anyone out there a Curves owner that has had to close from New York State? If so would you please let me know. I would like to talk to you if possible. Tahns for your help.

  261. unhappy on November 4th, 2009 12:53 pm

    There are quite a few from NY. Send an email to Sean requesting him to forward it to me and I will try to set you up with NY owners,

  262. unhappy on November 6th, 2009 2:29 am

    This was posted on another site complaining about Phil’s post on that site and while I have refused to respond on that particular site I thought it would be a good one here as Ken Forms is obviously reading this site as well. At the end you can read our thoughts about this jerk and the way he conducts business.

    “Major lawsuit in march by curves owners vs ci”
    “Is there a billion dollar lawsuit with heavin and previous passed off owners in march?”

    Ahhh…. And there it is. VERY subtle. I wondered what he was looking for here since it didn’t appear he was really looking for answers to his leading questions. We should have guessed: he’s looking to drum up business for the lawsuit. Gee, you aren’t a potential litigant now are you?

    http://www.unhappyf ranchisee. com/curves- robert-lays- story/

    Full disclosure: I’ve made it publicly clear before, there is no love lost between Robert Lay and myself. While I can’t attest to the validity of the rest of his “story”, I can state for certain that what he says about us is utterly false. My wife owns the club which Robert *claims* opened in his territory less than a mile from his existing club. In reality, we were opening in his FORMER territory which he abandoned well over four years ago (final disposition with Curves was in December 2005) – he closed his abandoned club leaving him with his club on the main street bordering the two territories. Also, we didn’t open within one mile of his club, we are well inside OUR territory and 2.6 miles from his (now closed) club because Curves would only approve a location at least that far from him – meanwhile his club was literally right on the territorial border. Nice. Prior to and since opening Robert has: made harassing calls to my wife (though he never returned any of MY calls, hmmmm…), he came into our club during construction yelling at the contractors/ workers there that this was “his territory” and an “illegal build…everyone was going to [get arrested]”, he’s never sent a dime for any pre-pay transfers we’ve gotten, he has drafted members for MONTHS after transferring despite receiving HAND CARRIED and signed for transfer requests, now, according to some of our new transfers, he even drafted accounts just days before closing in September 2009 and to my knowledge has not sent on any funds for ANY of his prepaid transfers that went to surrounding clubs (just spoke with one) when he closed – BTW, he gave out and posted a notice to his members that in part told them to go to Fitness 19 (so much for “helping” out “other owners” eh?), in the same notice he appears to accuse one of the two local Smart clubs of “illegal” and “unethical” billing practices and that “[they] charge $39 to all members who transfer…it is illegal and unethical for them to do so.” (n.b. neither of us, and to my knowledge no one in the valley, charges $39 for CD membership (smart or other)), right after we opened he even had his lawyer draw up and send papers threatening to drag us into court for opening our club, then he accused me of “slander and libel” asking that I be removed from THIS site for posting such scurrilous messages like this:

    the list goes on and on, (FYI, ALL this is documented with statements from those involved to cover my ass) but you get the idea and all of this along with other stuff that has happened to myself and other owners is why we now have cameras at our club pointing out and we document EVERY conversation/ e-mail/piece of mail/fax/etc… that goes to them or is about them.

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, MANY people got screwed and have been mistreated by CI, but I can’t see how anyone would want these people “leading their charge” representing their “side”.

    First off the territory in question was never abandoned by us and both Ken Forms and his wife were fully aware of that long before they tried to buy that franchisee from Curves International. There is a law suit at this time concerning that franchise territory that has been filed in the courts in Waco TX. that is working its way through the legal system which our attorney fully expects to win or they wouldn’t have taken it on contingency. His club, furthermore is way less than 1 mile from our location for that territory on Ann Road and we certainly did go to his club when the build out was being done and put a delay on construction for over 30 days. Our lawyer’s in Las Vegas could have gotten a restraining order stopping it from even opening if we had put up a retainer of 15,000 dollars which we decided not to do as our fight at that time as well as now is with Curves International for selling that territory which was still in mediation allowed by our contract with Curves International. We closed our Club on Craig Road at the end of September and most certainly did charge members for that month. Our billing cycle was always on the 5th and the 20th so once again Kenny doesn’t have his facts correct. Now he states that we sent members when we closed to Fitness 19. Once again he should get his facts straight before he makes outlandish statements such as that. In the letter we sent out to all members we listed all health clubs in our area including his club and gave them the option of going and checking them all out before they made a decision on where to go. So far 99 percent of the members that have transferred to another club have gone to the club that was on our western border not to Kenny’s club. But that certainly doesn’t surprise us at all because even his members complain that his wife is such a bitch she won’t even let members chew gum and workout at the same time. Than he states that he has installed cameras to protect him from all the stuff that has happened to him. He is obviously referring to the smash and grab burglaries in the past where his computers were stolen and his house burglaries where everything was stolen when he was in Ireland. Gee Kenny maybe it’s because you have bad karma. Why not tell us all about how you lost your clubs in Ireland? Maybe its just another example of your bad luck or karma? I guess you just don’t get it do you Kenny? What you put out in life you get back 2 fold and your chickens are just now coming home to roost. You know it is well known that your members can’t stand your wife as she is such a bitch that she won’t even let members chew gum and workout at the same time.
    Now I don’t know who Phil is but you are right on one thing Kenny I am leading the charge against Curves International and support all the lawsuits group action and individual. I have helped over 1000 owners close their Curves and avoid the illegal and quite ridiculous charges that Curves International has tried to intimidate owners into paying. I have worked with 60 minutes to do a documentary on the fall of Curves International which is planned to air sometime after the first of the year and I’m sure you are going to love that program as you, Kenny and your wife, Mary, will be featured on it as well. Oh and by the way Kenny when our lawsuit is over with Curves International and we win we will be coming after you and Mary so we will see you in court in the not to distant future. That’s a promise not an idle threat.

  263. jd on November 6th, 2009 12:06 pm

    I’m going to at least give this guy credit for posting this website that people could link to, since you didn’t feel it necessary to tell us which forum this came from.

    The fact that you found a lawyer to take the case on contingency doesn’t necessarily mean that they think they will win in court, they may like the idea of a settlement. I’m sure if they could get a settlement of $20mil and take their 30% cut, they would make back the time that they put into the case at this point. Lawyers take contingency cases all the time in the hopes that the other side would rather pay a settlement than spend additional attorney fees.

    Also, I’m assuming that the case that is talked about is Momentum Marketing v Curves, since it seems to be the largest case in their 2008 UFOC. If that’s the case, Gary was dismissed as a defendant according to what I read.

  264. unhappy on November 6th, 2009 3:53 pm

    I’m sure Phil knows the web site and of course so does Kenny but just for your information it was the Yahoo group curves owners site that all owners should belong to even if they are lurkers as they call them on that site. You are right in the statement “The fact that you found a lawyer to take the case on contingency doesn’t necessarily mean that they think they will win in court, they may like the idea of a settlement” but it usually means that you have a pretty good case that they feel if it went to court you would win. Obviously the lawyers would almost always take a settlement if the dollar amount was sufficient No our case is not the Momentum Marketing case mentioned in the UFOC. Ours wasn’t filled until around March of this year. the UFCO doesn’t even list all of the suits filled but you can get a full listing of the suits by using a PACER search and for $2.50 you can read and copy all the court documents on each case and there are quite a few filled just this year. here is a site you can go to see some of them but again I have found it not to be totally accurate
    http://dockets.justia.com/search?q=Curves+International%2C+Inc.

  265. phil on November 6th, 2009 6:24 pm

    im skimming over this story here, but if someone believes that corporate wouldnt open a club near another or resell a once live club, not defunct is ignorant.
    Corporate tried to sell a territory less than 1.5 miles from us. They didnt know what the area was, and if they did they wouldnt open there. It was not a safe area at all..BUT corporate didnt care..
    they saw an opportunity to sell a territory and they heard about it..

    I dont think actually did open it, but the intention was there!

  266. unhappy on November 6th, 2009 9:17 pm

    Read the story at the top of the page and you will get the drift of how crooked not only Howie is but some of his franchise owners as well!!!!!

  267. tickedoff on November 7th, 2009 9:06 am

    Need that list of NY owners ASAP. No much longer to decide what I want to do. Would like to notify a few. Thanks

  268. unhappy on November 8th, 2009 5:03 pm

    At the curves convention Heavin had the audacity to state the following:—–”

    Lawsuits: Law firm trolled, finding unhappy franchisees who paid them $6k each. He showed a video narrated by Joan Rivers of the lawyers humongous home, luxury cars (Brantley’s and more), the wife’s closet [Which may be bigger than some of our homes]
    Curves has won every significant motion. A California judge threw out of court. Only half of plaintiff’s remain. All courts moved jurisdiction to Texas, so all cases will be tried there. “We will not be bullied or intimidated through extortion.”________

    This man Howie is incapable of telling the truth. No one has had to pay 6K to join any of the law suits and they have lost every major and minor motion in the court nad have only been able to prolong the trials by delaying them. This man can use the excuse that he wont be intimidated and bullied through extortion and yet that is how he has tried to run his business. Do I need to give examples such as the closing fee, mutual release form which isn’t, and the equipment not being owned by the owners, etc etc etc . this man needs to find Christianity and be put in jail along with his wife.

  269. unhappy on November 10th, 2009 3:27 am

    Hi tickedoff,
    send an email with your phone number and e-mail address on it to unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com requesting Sean to forward it to me and I will put you in touch with someone that can help you.

  270. Victim2 on November 12th, 2009 2:35 pm

    Curves International is responsible. I shouldn’t have to compete with another Curves location 3 miles down the road, on the same street. Who does that?

  271. CA ex-owner on November 12th, 2009 4:31 pm

    We couldn’t agree more. San Francisco is only about 47 sq. miles total, and Curves International sold 15 franchises in that area. We were all a little more than a mile apart from each other. We share the same stories as those above — lost large amounts of money (and time), bankruptcies, etc., which led to the majority of clubs eventually closing their doors. There are now only 4 clubs left. There was no way we all could have competed in a market where neighboring clubs were a mere five-minute drive away from each other. All this created was a lot of clubs with huge city rents and small memberships — effectively emptying our pockets and filling the bankrolls of the Heavins and Curves International.

  272. unhappy 2 on November 13th, 2009 4:41 pm

    Listen people, I have been in the fitness industry for over a decade. Not a ton of time, but more than just a few years.
    CI got greedy and aw oppiortunity to make money, their bottomline and they are now on their way out.
    We were struggling like many other clubs in the country about 6 months ago to retain members. So what does CI do?
    They did a search for my area and saw some territory that was not inhabited by a curves so they attempted to actually research the area and with the intent of opening another club about 10 minute from me. I dont think they actually did but they were looking to.
    I wrote a rather nasty and direct email to someone at corporate, dont recall their name telling them that clubs are struggling so you are contemplating opening another club and killing the existing clubs that are already injured?
    Their ARROGANT response..”We are in the business of selling franchsies, nothign else.”

    In the year 2009 they have, what 5000 clubs and more closing daily.

    I joined a yahoo list serv and expressed my utter disgust with corporate. NOT with the workout!
    After spending a substantial amount of money on the business, whether it was advertising, or products to help the business we end up with a business that has gone from 795 to just under 600. Now many tell me that I shhould be grateful for having 500+ members. I never said I wasnt grateful, but my grip is WHY doesnt corporate advertise??

    heavin can certainly talk about his private jet and his mansion at club camp which in my opinion is not a place for that to be discussed. Yet when clubs are starving for members and he talks about things like that makes me mad.
    He has LIED directly to us at club camp when he said, expect agressive marketing on TV.

    Of the 690 women in my club, NOT ONE ever says I saw a curves ad. Whether its is a guest or a current member, neither ever says that!
    We pay ex amount of dolars for advertsing and yet get zero out of it.

    Curves moto back a few years was to be the McDonalds of fitness center. They did that and they forced a situation where cannibalism basically occured.
    We fought each other for members.

    The sad truth is that Heavin and his goons down in waco do a good job of pr. A great job of pf. He has managed to brainwash so many people into believieng his crap its sad…
    people really are dumb!

    Then he goes onto to market curves smart recently. Curves smart DOES motivate and keep the women interested. It is interesting to see caloric expenditure and what not. However this technology has not helped clubs retain members.

    Curves needed a new idea, something to bring life back to a stale idea…and curves smart was that attempt.
    Apparently while it helps and the ladies love it, it didnt do a dam thing to help membership grow.

    Being part of a co-op Ive recieved numerous club closing emails in the past few months and those clubs HAD CURVES SMART.

    There are three problems on the corporate level that will eventually lead to the demise or curves..if not the demise, the shrinking..major shrinking..
    1. Any successful business man, or CEO doesnt have his family running the business. Of all the business courses I took in college, this was always frowned upon. You just DONT DO IT! Even in a small family business it can be bad.

    2. Super fast growth only to take a nose dive a decade later.
    3. Lack of ADVERTISING to where curves market will likely go to see the ad! They took the cheap way out with ads. Ads need to be multi faceted approach. Tv, online, radio maybe… not just one method. Since when does just ONE ad method do the trick? rarely..

    I dont wish harm upon anyone ever. However, I do think certain people that mislead and lye and backstab like heavin or someone like bernie madoff needs to be brought down. Madoff Was. Now its time for heavin to pay the price.

    IT is painful to see people pour their live savings into their dream business opportunity only to walk away and write it off as a loss because corporate turned its back.
    CI should be ashamed of itself. Someone needs to expose them and quick! They are already on a decline…might as well be honest with the people and just put a nail on the coffin..

    I own a club presently and Im saying this because the way things are, I dont kow if I will own a club in the next 6 months!

  273. unhappy on November 13th, 2009 5:53 pm

    while the above post is nice it was not written by unhappy

  274. unhappy 2 on November 13th, 2009 7:15 pm

    to the anonymous CI employee,

    your honesty is appreciates, Lord knows or company is anything but. I know how it is to be in the position to say ,” hey I just work here.” and not really have anything to do with CI’s crap.
    Thanks for posting and being honest. Its very apparent and quite frankly, down right scary!

  275. unhappy 2 on November 13th, 2009 7:18 pm

    all of these posting here, even dating back to 07 are MORE than valid and just, but it blows my mind how people can STILL cheer for CI??

    What gives?? seriously. I mean Ive heard that people can be dumb, but my goodness people, do you like getting it shoved to you and smiling about me??
    do you like being walked to the execution chamber and being happy about it (unless you are mentally ill that is)???

  276. unhappy on November 13th, 2009 11:08 pm

    After the expose comes out do you really think curves will be around and who in their right mind will want to join? Oh and remember don’t chew gum and work out as you may get expelled. At least form hairy’s club oh I mean marys club.

  277. unhappy 2 on November 14th, 2009 2:34 am

    what kind of exposure is this going to be and on what station?

  278. unhappy on November 14th, 2009 3:27 pm

    who is this guy in the above post as it is not unhappy don’t use my call name the real unhappy not the imposter

  279. unhappy on November 15th, 2009 1:18 am

    thank you for changing your post to unhappy 2 but maybe you should post under a different name to stop the confusion —-thanks

  280. unhappy 2 in n Philadelphia on November 15th, 2009 1:36 pm

    Sorry about that unhappy…where are located and are you having issues too?

  281. Curves Canadan on November 15th, 2009 2:07 pm

    I own a curves and am too struggling to get by… I have owned for 1 1/2 now and making no profit. I would like to close the doors but don’t want to dissapoint my members, but it may be my last resort. What will be the closing costs or penalty for breaking franchise contract. Please email me.

  282. unhappy on November 16th, 2009 12:58 am

    Just a lot of idle harassment and intimidation so when k you get to the closing stage send an email to Admin the moderator at unhappyFranchisee[at]gmail.com and have him forward it to me and I will give you some advise on what to expect and how to handle it. the real unhappy who is getting happier every day

  283. Doyourresearch on November 17th, 2009 5:17 pm

    Wow, after reading through so many posts, SO much needs clarification. (No, I don’t work for CI). I do feel sympathy for everyone who has been screwed over, and know the 10,000 closing fee is totally ridiculous, and illegal. But still:

    1) Curves smart is not manufactured in Mexico, it’s manufactured in Ontario, at the same facility where you call for technical support. (Franchise owners from Ontario can back this up). The inventor is a man named Reed Hanoun, not Gary Heavin.
    2) As business owners, how can you not understand that Curves is out to sell franchises? That’s it, bottom line. It’s a big corporate structure, NO corporation really cares about the little guy, and of course their contracts will do everything to get money out of you, just as almost any franchise does. While that doesn’t excuse them from not advertising on your behalf, how could you buy into something that markets itself as “the McDonalds” of fitness, and NOT expect over saturation? Ever been on a street with like 7 McDonald’s? I have!
    3) If you live in a town with less than 10, 000 people, how did you expect this to go well in the long term? If the town doesn’t have a high turn-over rate in the population, you have no new feed of new members. Plus you have to factor in that even so-called “potential” members may not be into fitness and will never walk through that door!
    4) Mytrak makes CurvesSmart. But Curves owns the CurvesSmart name, so yes you can get the Mytrak system for other places, it just won’t be called CurvesSmart, it will be called Mytrak.
    5) Mytrak is a separate entity from Curves, meaning that if Curves makes it that the equipment is not adjustable, how can the CurvesSmart possibly be adjusted to the equipment? This is Curves’ fault.
    6) Curves is not right to pressure owners to get the CS system, however, if you did get it, it’s to benefit your members, you can’t possibly blame mytrak that installing CS didn’t bring you more members. You fell for Curves hype.
    7) Again, I sympathize, but from a business perspective, of course Curves is going to try to suck money out of you when you’re failing, because if you’re failing, so are they, as any business would do, they are going to try to keep money, as that member claims Robert is doing.
    8)I understand the frustration and financial undoings of many people here, and don’t agree with Curves, or what they’re doing to their franchisees. However, when a member is complaining that they feel mistreated (whatever the case may be here) everyone gangs up on her, and says “so what, what’s your piddly amount of money to people in real debt. You concerns are invalid” So how is Curves supposed to feel for you, when that’s how you feel about people being hurt by your business closure? $30 or whatever may seem like nothing to do when you’re in 60g’s of debt, but maybe for someone else that’s a few meals or something.
    9) Sometimes you walk into the tiniest Curves ever, and while they’re cute, would you pay roughly $30 per month for a facility like that, when you can be involved with places that offer way more for the same amount?
    9) If this member was billed for the month ahead as she says, then how is it NOT taking money from her? If she is in fact mistaken on the billing cycle, why doesn’t anyone clarify?
    10) This is supposed to be a forum for discussion, but when anyone says anything that isn’t 100% anti-curves, people are resorting to name calling!
    11) Re-read Den’s posts for how hydraulics work, and how you won’t just plateau. ie. If a 60 year old woman can only move so fast, she would have plateau’d anyway! If you’re a trainer reading this, you couldn’t have expected a limited circuit to continue to help someone for all time. Eventually they would need to change styles, change exercises etc. to continue to see results.
    12) Curves was marketed to women to run their own business with no business training. Big mistake on Curves’ part (or good sell, depending on how you look at it) but even bigger mistake on the buyers parts. What made you think you could run a successful, functioning business, with no business training, on a model that markets itself as TRYING to saturate the market…..it just blows my mind over and over! Even without Curves the fitness market is largely saturated!
    13) If you treat people like babies while they’re working out (not allowed to chew gum??? Grade school anyone?) then don’t be surprised if members don’t come back. The way you treat your customers, and customer service is almost all that counts in industry anymore.

    Not trying to step on anyone’s toes, but before signing my life away on a contract, I would read it over, with a lawyer, and know every damn facet before I agree to anything. That being said, good luck with your lawsuit, Curves is illegally charging you closing fees, and not holding up their end of the contract, through lack of advertising, and putting people too close together despite territory rules, and making you sell things that do not benefit your franchise, but only Curves. I hope you rake them over the coals.

  284. Wipedout on November 18th, 2009 4:05 am

    A Curves member is billed for $117 FIVE YEARS after she stopped working out at the club.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-thu-problem-1112nov12,0,5588073.column

  285. ADMIN on November 18th, 2009 11:18 am

    Wipedout: Thanks for the link.

    All: please read and comment:

    CURVES: Complaints of Unauthorized Membership Charges

    Here’s the Question:  How widespread is the practice of questionable or fraudulent billing by desperate Curves franchise owners?

  286. unhappy 2 on November 18th, 2009 3:07 pm

    curves greed will lead to their downfall. Curves makes the mistake by being greedy and the individual owners pay for it. Franchises fail, no guarantee you will survive, BUT when corporate, out of greed sells curves franchises like 5 feet from each other how can each one survive?
    yet clubs close their doors and curves fines us?

    Im sorry I ever got involved with this company. First of all its a disgrace. They are all good at PR, but not much else.

    What I also dont understand is why , knowing how screwed up CI is, how people can still cheer for them?? they did a hell of a job brainwashing people!

    I hope Howard is taken down and pays for his greed.

    Can someone also tel me why people think its ok to work the same muscle every day and not think it is overtraining??
    granted they dont take the muscle to failure or fatigue, but it makes the program even more boring that much faster..

  287. unhappy on November 18th, 2009 6:04 pm

    That was an interesting article you posted Wipedout and the follow up question by the Admin was quite appropriate. While I would give the owner the benefit of the doubt at this time. I would like to reserve final judgment to see if the owner pays it promptly now and would hope that there is a follow up story letting us know how it is resolved

    If you click on the site CURVES: Complaints of Unauthorized Membership Charges you will see my response to the admin question shortly.

  288. unhappy 2 on November 26th, 2009 2:33 pm

    for all you curves franchisees..
    i just found out from a mytrak rep that curves international never had the intent of advertising curves smart..

    they dont care to advertise it so heavin lied again..what an asshole..

  289. unhappy on November 26th, 2009 8:28 pm

    Does that surprise you?

  290. Lost Life Savings on November 27th, 2009 9:26 am

    I closed my club on Oct. 30th after being open for a little over 4 years. It was located in a small town and I had 27 members when I closed. My highest membership was about 150. After the first year, there was an exodus of members calling to cancel their memberships because they did not have time or had to drive too far. My now ex husband had tried to talk me into selling or closing the club two years ago, but I was hoping to turn it around and that the economy would get better. I didn’t think it was doing well enough to sell. A year ago, my husband and I separated, partly due to the stress from Curves, partly due to his affair with another woman.

    Before I closed, I took my franchise agreement to an attorney to ask his advice on closing curves after CI would not respond to my phone calls. He said he could only help me if I filed bankruptcy. He also said the franchise agreement was for 5 years and that CI had 180 days before the 5 year term is up to send me a certified letter asking if I wanted to renew my agreement and I would have 30 days to respond. If I did not respond within 30 days, CI would assume that I wanted to renew my agreement for another 5 years.

    I have to admit, I never fully read the franchise agreement, but that should not give CI the right to hold me in bondage and not allow me to close a business for which I can’t even meet payroll and taxes. I was losing $2000 a month from my personal money and I have two kids to support. CI has their money for the franchise and is free to resell it to anyone they would like. I just had to cut my losses and get out.

    My ex sent me an email that supposedly was forwarded from CI but I can’t believe some of the demands that were made “in order for Curve International to ‘work with you.’” I had 2 options. Option 1 – sell my club. (After reading option 2, there’s no way I’m going to sell to another “victim”). Option 2 – After completing a list of closing procedures, send them 10K AND then: either donate my machines to another Curves club (nobody ever donated anything to me!) or women’s correctional facility, OR take the cylinders off and ship them to the company that I bought the machines from (a subsidiary of CI?) at my expense, remove the padding and DONATE it to another Curves club, and then sell the machine skeletons for scrape and send CI the receipt and money that’s left after reimbursing any members for which reimbursements are owed.

    I bought the machines, I didn’t borrow, lease, or rent them. Those demands are so rediculous, it doesn’t even warrant a response! If anyone out there is going through the same thing with closing, or if anyone wants to help me warn current franchisees of what’s in store for them if the economy in their town goes bad or if they have to close for any reason, I would appreciate any help and suggestions. I can’t imagine anyone in their right mind actually sending CI money and destroying their machines, as well as giving up their business rights. And then CI is still free to sell the territory again! I will probably have to go to court in Waco but if I do, whatever treatment CI gives me, they better be proud to have it made public knowledge.

    I don’t look for Curves to be here much longer. I think it grew too big too fast and Gary Heaven got his eyes off of Christ and started focusing on mammon. I think he did start off as a christian though. We all need to pray for him that he will come back to the Lord.

  291. unhappy on November 27th, 2009 12:27 pm

    Welcome to the club and get some solace in the fact that you are not alone. I agree with you that we need to get more attention on this as it is public knowledge. I am working on this now and if your truly interested send and email with your phone number on it to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com at this site and he will forward it to me. Hopefully we can get in touch and get a spotlight on this matter. I have to question whether Howie was ever a christian but the real founders of this company certainly were and it’s a shame Howie ran them off in o3.

  292. Carol Cross on November 27th, 2009 12:57 pm

    Dear “Lost my Life Savings”

    Thank you for sharing your story with others on this website and for opening the window on the malicious contracts that contain terms that punish franchisees for their failure to be able to make a living with the franchise they bought in great good faith,

    Even if you had read the contract, you probably wouldn’t have understood that the franchisor would demand a “failure” fee, because it defies fairness and logic that franchisees should be further punished because they are losing their entire investments. Hard to imagine the malice of ten-year franchise agreements and long-term leases in view of the attorneys’ knowledge and the governments knowledge that, according to statistics, 50% of the franchisees will fail out of business sometime in the first five years

    I can’t imagine that a judge woud uphold this $10,000 “failure fee” if he knew the story would become public and I can’t imagine that Curves would want that kind of publicity. But, remember that the attorney who wouldn’t take your case unless you declare bankruptcy is aware that the judges do uphold the terms of the contracts and grant judgmentam and that the franchisors’ unconscionable practices are protected by 30 years of case law made since the Federal Government took franchisors out from the common law fraud and securities laws of the states.

    Franchising is all about mammon for the franchisor who has to cannibalize his franchisees to himself survive. Remember that the franchisors borrow against the signed contracts of the franchisees to expand internationally in a kind of Ponzi scheme that appears innocent and wears a pretty face to good faith buyers of franchises.

    Democracy, Capitalism, and Christianity used to be somewhat equal partners in our National economy but this business model is not compatible with democracy or Christianity.

    May God be with you and comfort and guide you in the days ahead!

    Carol

  293. unhappy 2 on November 27th, 2009 3:01 pm

    to unhappy,

    no it doesnt. But this man is a seriously large asshole. He was at one point a senior sales man for pace group exercise, the original hydraulic and he uses those salesman skills today to con people into buying his shit!

    Its a shame that most people dont see the assholes that make up CI.

    A club closed near me recently, losing 28 members in ONE day due to competition from two other fitness clubs in the area about 10-15 minutes away at a much lower cost.
    She still has members, but way too few to remain open.
    She called an area directory for support and the area directors response was, “I can’t help you, you need to hire an attorney.”
    What load of crap is that!

    Curves NEEDS to go away. Granted other franchisees probably have issues too as nothing is perfect, but im just tired of the lies and the bullshit Howard Heavin feeds us.

    Just because he IS a wealthy man doesnt mean he will remain a wealthy man. It wont be the first time people have made and lost fortunes due to greed and lies!

    To unhappy, have you heard anything about a story airing in march regarding the lies and bs from CI? I think it was something Robery Lay was working on…

  294. unhappy 2 on November 27th, 2009 3:12 pm

    has anyone heard that the total amount of clubs left in the us is 500?
    I was told by a neighbor club that she read somewhere hes down to 500 clubs!

    She wasnt confusing it with the latest mytrak release that says 500 clubs signed up for the new software…

  295. unhappy on November 27th, 2009 7:54 pm

    He has gone bankrupt before so it wouldn’t surprise me to see him lose it all. The old saying what comes around goes around does seem to come true more often that not. There are more that 500 clubs still open somewhere around 4,500 at this time. But that is world wide so in the States who knows how many are left. Howie surly knows but he’s not talking. We do know that around a 100 clubs a month have been closing in the U S alone. It’s funny that he still advertises that there is over 10,000 clubs as can be seen on the Curves Web site which we all know is not true. There are several national articles that will be coming out about Curves after the first of the year. If you are interested in getting involved and telling your horror story send an email to Sean at this web site. He will forward the information to me and I will send you the contact information of who you need to get a hold of to put in your complaints about Howie’s business tactics.

  296. unhappy 2 in n Philadelphia on November 29th, 2009 7:57 pm

    He has gone. Bankrupt before?

  297. unhappy 2 in n Philadelphia on November 29th, 2009 7:58 pm

    When. Did this happen?

  298. Barbara on December 2nd, 2009 2:35 pm

    I have just started reading on this sight and have a question about closing and starting up another.
    If I were to start another exercise gym with this equipment and get it going while I was still operating as Curves just long enough to see if it would work, lowering prices and maybe going co-ed, what are the chances they would find out and would they be coming around once I tell them I have closed my doors. If I have done this and have closed out the curves account and they can not draw out their money, besides the threats what would they do? Want very much to keep a gym open but need to get a little money in to hire some help as for the most part I am here by myself. Have one lady who volounteers one afternoon a week and another that comes in for the last two hours twice a week and we open at 5am.

  299. Fitdude on December 2nd, 2009 3:04 pm

    Barbara;

    As a non-franchise competitor of Curves, I have helped several former Curves owners open their own clubs after closing their Curves location (obviously, I cannot give you any names or locations, because some of these people were in violation of their franchise agreement or non-compete agreement). Granted, the chances of anyone from corporate ever coming to visit are slim, but you would be opening yourself to exposure of litigation if you were to do this .

    If you do go through with this, I have a suggestion on going coed. I would suggest a combination of women only hours during the day, then coed hours in the evening. As you know, one of the major reasons for the success of women’s clubs has been the fact that many women do not want to work out with men around; even out of shape men. But there are as many out of shape men out there as women and many of these men are just as intimidated at the idea of working out in a hardcore coed gym. You will probably get a lot of senior couples working out together as well as overweight couples (Weight Watchers is coed).

    Good luck.

  300. Judy on December 2nd, 2009 3:19 pm

    I have wondered about this also. We have been in business for 8 years and if it weren’t for other business interests, we would be out of business also. If we could close and reopen without paying the $600/monthly (franchisee and advertising fees) we still wouldn’t be getting rich, but would at least be able to show a little profit. We are in a very small market, and would like to be able to stay open just for our “ladies” . In rereading the contract it looks like we would have to wait at least a year not to be in violation. Of course, that doesn’t address the equipment issue. There are about 8 Curves still operating in my state, and I think most of the problem would come from them “informing”. Oh my! what a mess.

  301. unhappy on December 3rd, 2009 12:57 am

    Judy,
    Your contract has a do not complete clause which some states will up hold while others won’t. You need to check your state laws before you proceed trying to do that. Send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com requesting it to be forwarded to me with your phone number and I’ll gladly explain how you can get around it if you really want to do it.

  302. D. Capone on December 3rd, 2009 1:16 pm

    I purchased a resale of 2 curves in Burlington County NJ. in 2004. What a BIG MISTAKE ! From the first month that I took over the clubs both have consistently
    lost revenue each and every month. I tried to sell in 2007 each club for
    $25,000.00. Couldn’t sell them or give them away. I paid $550,000.00 so you can imagine how I feel. My Payment to the bank was $8,300.00 each month for 5 years. Slowly this franchise destroyed my family. My retirement and savings are gone. I feel that Curves International ok’d the deal I made to purchase these clubs knowing it couldn’t survive. There are too many clubs. When you think of weight lose you don’t think of Curves you think of Jenny Craig or Nutrisystem. The advertising for Curves is useless. On September 30, 2009 I had to close one club. Curves is demanding future royalties and advertising fees, which I have no intention of paying. My other club is on the verge of closing also. I wish I could go back in time and made the decision not to purchase these clubs. My life has just been devastated every month trying to figure out where am I going to get the money to pay for this failing business. I guess I’m one of the lukcy ones though, I still have my home to live in.

  303. Barbara on December 3rd, 2009 2:20 pm

    can we do the silver sneakers on our own instead of going through curves?
    Is go figure a program that is directly linked to curves or can we use it for other businesses? If I were to go co-ed and maybe lower my prices would curves have a problem with checkdraft amounts? Lots of little questions keep croping up. Hope I am not being a pest.

  304. ADMIN on December 3rd, 2009 2:41 pm

    UnhappyFranchisee.com does not allow the posting of personal contact information (including email addresses) in comments; however, if two commenters both send permission to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com we will pass it on to the other.

    Disclaimer: As a general policy, UnhappyFranchisee.com does not dispense advice (especially legal advice) other than to urge you to seek counsel from an experienced franchise and/or bankruptcy lawyer when navigating these dangerous waters. We would never advocate breaching your franchise agreement. The opinions expressed by people you may meet through this site or which are posted on this site are theirs alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of this site or the site owners.

  305. unhappy 2 on December 4th, 2009 4:25 pm

    To D. Capone,
    I completely understand your frustration. I feel for you totall1 We bought our club at a nice membership of 749 members. We werent aware of the rapid decline curves was in.
    Almost two year later we are hovering around 589..which is still a nice size, but we survive ONLY beause other clubs in the area are closing..thats no way to do it. BUT corporate did this.
    Howard heavin, the lying sack of shit he is oversold terrorteries knowing dam well that many would fail but he did it anyway.
    Now curves has what, 4900 clubs left and closing more every day?

    The latest bullshit with this club is that we no longer have acccess to curves products like socks and shirts of the month which added to our revenue..

    Curves is a failure at a corporate level. Just because someone was at one point a billionarre doesnt mean he or she will stay a billionaire.

    The workout itself is fine for the demographics it is designed for. However, I question where out advertising money is going??

    do you know that curves decided to NOT market curves smart?

    I hate to say it, but we also lost members to other cheaper health clubs like planet fitness and fitness 19..at 19 a month who wouldnt leave!

    I sincerely hope heavin looses everything for the greif he causes people..like yourself and others in the same boat!

    Good luck seriously! I hope things turn around for you!

  306. another curver on December 4th, 2009 6:09 pm

    hello all. happy holidays. i hope. on monday we closed our second club. my atttitude towards c.i. is bad. when they asked me if I’ve made arrangements to take down my sign I wish I’d responded, “let’s see…. feed my children or pay to remove your name? hmmm…. ” I just told them, i think it’s something i have to negotiate with my landlord. how dare they even ask?
    the same thing with the leasing company for curves smart. so they’re all set to give me the song and dance about finding a buyer to assume the lease, then they “notice” that i already had a club close. so the woman’s tone of voice changes and she says, well we’ll have to call you back. but first she did make the observation that our area was “oversold with locations”. hmmm… they noticed that too, did they?

  307. Carol on December 4th, 2009 8:37 pm

    As a Curves owner, we have always practiced good business ethics. We have never used collections other than a non-threating letter informing them of credit card errors or nsf checks in hope that the member would make good. Once in a blue moon, another letter would be sent. After that a member was archieved. Maybe being a nice guy hasn’t paid off in the business sense, but the christainity that was preached to us during club camp has always been upheld by myself and employees. In the next two weeks we will be letting our members know that we are closing our doors. I’ve met a lot of wonderful people and am not looking forward to giving them the news. I have seen signs of “its just about the money” by CI. One instance is them selling marked down vitamins due to expire within a month or so of purchase. I ended up giving them away to my members. Up to about 2 months ago the weight management books could be purchased individually. Smaller clubs such as ours could buy a couple books at a time (couldn’t afford to buy a case). Wouldn’t you know it, I had a lot of ladies sign up for the class – went to order the books and you could know longer buy them individually – YOU HAD TO BUY A CASE!!!! I’ve had calls reminding us that we needed to fulfill our obligation to attend club camp. I informed them that we had fulfilled that obligation and after they did a check……….they did confirm our fulfillment. That didn’t stop them from trying to get us to attend again for a refresher………..well, we all know how much money that they getting for that!!!

    We have a ten year lease……..all I see online is a copy of the 5 year lease that has a date of 04/06 on the bottom. How come there is a ten and five year contract? Can anyone shed some light on this.

  308. unhappy 2 on December 5th, 2009 10:30 am

    Did anyone see the convention videos form last month? They make me sick. Or let me rephrase that, Heavin makes me sick.
    He tells us that its out own attitude or mental psychie that lets us down it has nothing to do with the economy or his lack of advertising..

    he is a GOOD salesmen.. and nothing more..

    makes me sick to my stomach

  309. unhappy on December 5th, 2009 10:57 pm

    When Curves first started all they had was 10 year agreements but in late 04 they changed and went to the five year contract. All contracts now are 5 years.

  310. agatha on December 7th, 2009 3:26 pm

    Some of you are saying that you cannot make it with x amount of members. I wish I had that many. When I took over this store 2 years ago it had 129 members and was holding its own. Today I have 48. I even went so far as to have c i help me with getting ready for open house. What a laugh that was. Knew I was in trouble then and there when not a single person came. It has been a struggle. Gain a few and lose a few. The day I have to dip into my pocket to pay a bill is the day I lock the door. I love my members as if they were family and I hate for that day to come. Not complaining, it had been a ride of a different sort. All of this is not Heavins fault, a lot has to do with the times but he certainly should have taken a different road if he really wanted to see the money keep coming into his bank account. He sure messed that up and it is only going to get worse for all of us.

  311. unhappy on December 15th, 2009 9:37 pm

    I don’t see how you can stay open with only 48 members. What size of territory do you have? You are right it is only getting worse for all Curves owners and the worst is yet to come>

  312. Carol on December 16th, 2009 12:37 pm

    Have all the Curves which closed or are closing filled out and completed the “closing packet” from Curves. I see in the packet that you can donate the equipment to a women’s prison. I have a non-profit church camp that would like the equipment……..guess that is out of the question?????

  313. agatha on December 16th, 2009 12:48 pm

    We have about 5 thousand in our town. The surrounding towns, most of which are smaller are too far away for the ladies to drive, or so they say.
    I really need to sell my equipment as I do have a couple of small loans out that really need to be paid before I close the doors. I started running an ad for men to join at certain hours. Give a little prayer for us.

  314. unhappy 2 on December 17th, 2009 7:30 am

    unhappy you say the worst has yet to come? how do you mean?
    does anyone know how many of these clubs are actually left?

    I ask my area director yesterday for help in maintaining this business, let alone growing it and she tells me, dont expect any help from corporate.. in a “diplomatic” way.”

    She tells me its our clubs responsibility to survive, not corporate’s.

    I told her for the advertising fee we pay each month, its a disgrace not to see where the money is going and she isn’t being honest.

  315. Lost Life Savings on December 17th, 2009 10:28 am

    I think she IS being honest when she says “Don’t expect any help from corporate in a ‘diplomatic’ way.” She is paid by CI and probably can’t say much more. CI made it plain to me that they didn’t intend to negotiate in any reasonable manner when they sent the crazy email to my ex regarding their requirements in order for them to “work with you” or me. (Read my story posted on November 27.) They are desperately trying to hold on to what they have and so, in the process are losing franchisees FAST! They are probably having to use the advertising fees to pay other bills. Gary has quit trusting God and has put his faith in himself and his attorneys. It won’t be much longer before he loses everything if he continues on his present course.

  316. unhappy 2 on December 17th, 2009 12:03 pm

    Lost Life,
    true, she was probably being honest. I dont think he really cares about whats going on in the field. Afterall HE did this..

    He probably figured, hell with it, Ill make a fortune selling my stolen idea so what?
    I will have made my billions..

    I just dont think they care..im sorry..I wish he would lose everything just because of what hes done to people..

    I know someone that knows him personally..that he (being howard) used to work for years ago, that told me he wished I never got involved with CI. I will never find a more deceptive , dishonest, yet slick individual than howard..
    hes a good salesmen and seems very sincere but hes quite the opposite..

    as far as area directors, they are useless..

  317. unhappy on December 18th, 2009 5:14 pm

    Carol where is the church camp located ? I’m sure we can find you equipment if we know the area as I don’t think any owners will want to ship it to them because of the cost involved but there is probably an owner close by that has closed .

  318. Lost Life Savings on December 19th, 2009 11:46 am

    I’m just wondering…is there anyone out there (someone that closed before their agreement was up and did NOT resell) who has actually gone to court against CI in Waco and what was the outcome? And what did you do with your machines? I hope you didn’t actually destroy them. They were yours! Did you send CI any money for a settlement? I can’t imagine anyone actually sending CI anything after paying for a franchise and the cost of operating it, and then having to walk away from their investment. Please tell us about your experience and what you would do differently, if anything (other than ‘never get involved with CI!’). We need to hear from you!

  319. Change Stations Now on December 19th, 2009 12:56 pm

    For the Score keeper – 2 more Curves closings.

    We closed our two Clubs in October 2009, after 3 1/2 years in business. These were a re-sale Purchases, and had been open 5 and 2 years prior. We filed for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy in the US Bankruptcy Court and just had our first hearing. All of the assets (including the equipment) now belong to the Bank that had loaned us the funds for purchase.

    A year ago there were 7 Clubs in our area, now there are 3. Two other owners consolidated their 2 clubs to one, negotiating with Curves for reduced closing fees.

    When I notified Curves of our closing, I received the -e-mail that many have mentioned, “either complete the resale forms or submit $10,000 closing fee”. I began searching the WEB for information about Curves, and discovered this site.

    During the past months, I have found you all to be a “Support Group”. Thank you. The different stories have made us realize we are not alone in dealing with a business failure.(We are sorry for the heartache and loss)

    Early on, I had the priviledge to talk with Robert Lay, who provided insight into different options. Unfortunately, bankruptcy was the only option we could afford.

    I believe there is a reason for everything, and am confident we will weather this storm too, broke but much wiser.

    We apologized to our loyal members and staff, that we had to lay off. We did pay all refunds, payroll and taxes, from personal savings/loans, which had supplemented operations for the past 18 months. (Curves even got their Oct Ad and Franchise fees in November, before we could close the bank accounts.

    We’ll see what the next steps bring.

    I wish everyone a Merry Christmas, and hopefully a better new year, as we each separate ourselves from Curves International, and the Amaze Yourself Franchise.

  320. unhappy on December 19th, 2009 9:07 pm

    Merry Christmas to your family too and a Happy New Year and thanks for posting here as it certainly helps knowing that there are many other owners who have had to deal with the problems that Howie boy has caused. It is a shame that he has so far been able to perpetuate this fraud and deceit to so many unsuspecting individuals. For those of us who have decided to sue our day in court will becoming up real soon and and hopefully Howie boy will get his much deserved reward in the amount of a huge settlement.

  321. another curver on December 20th, 2009 8:04 pm

    Carol – you should probably feel comfortable doing whatever you want with your equipment. the last thing I was told by CI (both in February and in December this year) was to donate it to a “non-profit serving women or students”. But my contract says I own my equipment and CI just has the “first right of refusal to purchase my equipment back from me for $1500 (and that’s only the original 8 pieces described earlier in the contract). Find your contract and read it. Additionally, though CI pretends it isn’t so, this right of refusal that they are ignoring pertains no matter how the contract ended, by being voided (as in my ending it by closing my store early) or finishing the license.

    BTW, today’s yahoo lists the top ten cities where home values have continued to climb during these last two years. WACO is number 6, and 6 or the ten are in Texas. So I guess that’s another part of how his perspective on the world is so different from mine.
    Today, I had the blessings of the county sheriff as my husband and I broke a window to get back into “our house” to finish clearing out our stuff. The mortgage company had given us until Dec 24th to do that, then locked it up tight last weekend. When we tried to work with them to get to it this weekend, they forgot to finish the paperwork in time. (probably had a holiday party to get to). That kind of experience is obviously very foreign to this guy.

  322. Agatha on December 31st, 2009 7:42 am

    I only have one small personal loan out on my business. Can i file for any kind of bankrutcy without having any big debt,and does this money owed curves at closing count?

  323. another curver on December 31st, 2009 1:53 pm

    Happy New Year Agatha,
    Start calling your local bankruptcy law firms. You may have to wait awhile to get an appointment.
    There are several varieties of bankruptcy out there (within the confines of the chapter 7, chapter 11, or chapter 13 category). Consultations are free and can answer all your questions. We did three consultations over several months before deciding what to do. Some bankruptcy laws are federal, and some are state, so there are some variances from state to state. The money Curves says I owe them (future royalty and ad fund payments from a contract ended before term) is a significant part of my bankruptcy case.
    I know a woman who was sued by Curves Int’l, after she did every thing they asked of her. However, since I closed in March they haven’t done much more than send me two legal letters demanding payment. I think they are bogged down with closures and either no longer investing the effort into legal actions, or just so slow they haven’t gotten back to me yet. However, even though we hadn’t hired an attorney or made a firm decision till October, I was telling them right away (in March) that I was going to have to file bankruptcy so maybe that’s why they haven’t done more yet.
    Good luck.

  324. Anne Tibbetts on January 3rd, 2010 3:25 pm

    I can only ditto the above problems with curves. We alos thought this was a wonderful way to supplement our retirement when we moved to Florida. Buy a Curves, friends had and were doing well. Mr and Mrs Heaven are not who they appear to be, cazring Christains. Most of the clubs that have closed, the owneres have lost all, and have had to file bancrupacy. Once at a convention Gary said we care about women, well most owners were women. What about us. We to lost all our retirement, our house is being foreclosed on and we are filing bankruacpy. Same issues, clubs opening everywhere around us, on top of us. No attention paid to territory borders, advertsing fee monthly with no accountability and no tv advertising. No support from mama and papa curves just give me give me more money. We are looking to join a class action or group action suit. I also know several other past owners who are looking for the same. We also owned three clubs closed two and are closing our last one. How sad for all of us that were sold a dream that became a nightmare.

  325. Carol Cross on January 4th, 2010 12:34 am

    So Sad! Dreams that become nightmares! If Curves had been forced under law and regulation to disclose the profitability/success/failure of “founding” franchisees within their system, would this have warned you, Anne Tibbetts? Generally, there is nothing very specific in the franchise agreement about the support the franchisor will provide you. The advertising funds appear to be the property of the franchisor to use as he sees fit.

    Unfortunately, because of regulation, franchises can be sold without disclosure by the franchisor of past financial performance statistics of units within systems and, therefore, good faith franchisees buy franchises with no idea of the great risk involved and put too much at risk. Under current law and the law of the average franchise agreement, franchisors can encroach on their own franchisees with immunity under the law.

    The great risk of buying “any” franchise is hidden from view of prospective
    franchisees because if the risk and profitability were actually understood up front, most prospects would not be willing to put so much at risk to earn so little and to lose so much.

    The deck is stacked in the courts against franchisees because of the pre-meditated airtight and invincible un-bargained contracts that are signed in good faith by naive buyers of franchises.

    I am sorry for your great loss and pain. Think about how you can help to prevent this from happening to others.

    http//thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com

  326. unhappy on January 5th, 2010 2:31 am

    Hi Anne Tibbetts,

    If you are interested in going after Howie and Curves International send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com here at this site and ask him to forward your email with your return email address or your phone to me and I will get a hold of you asap.

  327. Wipedout on January 7th, 2010 1:07 am

    Here’s a sad story of a Curves owner who says she could have pocketed a $700,000 profit had she sold her clubs when times were good, Instead, she wound up broke and bankrupt.

    http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/has-the-economy-closed-your-exit-door/

  328. unhappy on January 7th, 2010 3:29 am

    It truly is a sad story but its a shame that owner never had the chance to explain the reasons why she had to close. I would bet 9 to 1 that she would have similar complaints as all the other owners who have posted on this site explaining their horror story. .Why can’t Howie figure it out and make the necessary changes that are obvious to make this franchise successful and respectable again? Does anyone actually believe that this franchise will sooner than latter cease to exist? You should because of the rate of clubs closings since December has increased tremendously. What do you suppose Howie will do than? It should be obvious from the wording in the new contract. The ratio of people not willing to resign their franchise agreement on the five year contract is shocking to say the least. Many of those owners are trying to sell but as all owners know by now it is almost impossible to do even for a dollar, Does anyone really think that Howie will be able to resell those territories (churning in franchise lingo) to buyers after he has done his best to destroy this company by his illegal and unethical business tactics. To think that at one time there were over 10,000 clubs and that around 4,000 to 5,000 are all that’s left is mind boggling. Unfortunately the whole Curves story is very sad and I must wonder if Howie will write a book about his demise! The owners day in court is coming very soon, The group action lawsuit will be starting on March 21, 2010 and many individual cases will start to be heard in court starting in the summer of 2010.

  329. ADMIN on January 7th, 2010 1:01 pm

    Here’s a slightly different take on this “sad” story. Your comments are invited:
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-franchisee-regrets-not-sticking-it-to-others/

    I have a hard time shedding a tear for Ms. Donofrio when her greatest regret is not having pawned her doomed stores off on someone else for a profit. Her second biggest mistake was perhaps revealing a bit too much of her true self to a national publication.

    The story gives me a renewed respect for the franchisees who refused to resell their stores once they knew they weren’t going to work. Kudos to those of you who may have lost your savings but maintained your integrity. Your kids, friends and family noticed.

  330. FormerCurvesOwner on January 7th, 2010 2:52 pm

    The story gives me a renewed respect for the franchisees who refused to resell their stores once they knew they weren’t going to work. Kudos to those of you who may have lost your savings but maintained your integrity. Your kids, friends and family noticed.

    Thank you for this comment. I am one of those franchisees who refused to sell because if I couldn’t make it work as the original owner, no one could. I wasn’t willing to “give” the club away so that the next owner could build it up. If I couldn’t sell it for a decent price, good chance anyone interested in “picking” up the club would be undercapitalized and doomed to failure. If I was suffering from the cannabalism of other clubs on my borders, how would selling change that? It wouldn’t.

  331. another curver on January 7th, 2010 4:02 pm

    “renewed respect”
    are you kidding me?
    up until the last minute before i closed my clubs, i would have done anything to have sold them to anyone else. i practically tried to give them away.
    i loved my club and i love my members and i was so distraught over having to close and stop serving them.
    also, if i could have sold instead of closed i could have escaped the mental baggage that i failed!
    finally, and perhaps most important, if i could have sold my clubs, maybe my family wouldn’t be destitute now.
    Sure, go ahead and give me credit. i’ll tell you, when i came close to selling i recognized that I was selling someone a risk I didn’t want to live with anymore. but i was hopeful, and i am optimistic, so I can deal with that risk better than some (perhaps).
    To “cope” with potential buyers of my failing business, i had to keep defining my business problem like this:
    ————————————————————————————–
    * that it was me personally who could no longer get enough credit to keep the business going in a tough economy.
    * that it was me personally who couldn’t buck the shadow of curves international and do something so innovative that my individual franchise could survive and flourish.
    * that it was me personally who was making business mistakes.
    that was my problem.
    Obviously this was not the best business sense, but it was my reality. if i could have gotten enough credit to keep it going (till the economy turns around) i would have been happy to keep trying. i loved my business.

  332. Curved Logic on January 7th, 2010 4:44 pm

    “up until the last minute before i closed my clubs, i would have done anything to have sold them to anyone else. ”
    “Sure, go ahead and give me credit.”

    Who’s giving you credit for anything? Like the Donofrio chick you wouldve gladly pawned off your mistake so some other family could lose their life savings, their house and enjoy the pleasure of having their car repoed in the middle of the night.

    Your list of justifications will probably come in useful to the broker or CI salesperson who resells your territory to the next mark. Don’t expect credit just because you weren’t as good a salesperson as the pro churners.

  333. another curver on January 7th, 2010 4:56 pm

    I don’t think you “get it”. I certainly wasn’t trying to “pawn(ed) off your mistake”. I was hook line and sinker loving my business, even though the money had soured.
    I’d been open long enough (~8yrs) that most of my business was women who really believed in their Curves workout. I had about 70 women a day who were working out 3 times a week and feeding me their love of their workout.
    Because of this I did have hopes that we could survive and thrive again if we could just make it thru the current tough economy. I was advertising for someone who had the capital to whether the economic storm.
    Donofrio is portrayed as someone who wishes she’d sold when the business was profitable. that doesn’t make her a bad person.
    Also, for whatever reason (which is not defined) she kept her clubs, and wound up as broke and bankrupt as anyone of us might be.
    ps I didn’t just lose my savings, i lost everything except my marriage. and that almost went too.

  334. Curved Logic on January 7th, 2010 5:13 pm

    “Donofrio is portrayed as someone who wishes she’d sold when the business was profitable. that doesn’t make her a bad person.”

    No, she’s a great human being. Donofrio says her biggest regret is not getting someone to put an additional $700,000 into a business she now knows was destined to fail. She’s a real peach.

    How would you feel if the franchise salesperson who sold you your failed club was quoted as saying that their only regret was not charging you more for your franchise when they had the chance? Or not getting your jewelry… or gold teeth?

  335. another curver on January 7th, 2010 5:21 pm

    Dear Curved Logic.
    I Disagree. I don’t think she knew it was ‘destined to fail’.

  336. Curved Logic on January 7th, 2010 5:30 pm

    The point is that she now knows that the four Curves failed. And she wishes someone else had taken over the same businesses having invested $700,000 more than she did.

    She doesn’t say she wishes she sold to someone who could’ve succeeded. She just wishes she had walked away with somebody’s $700K.

    just because you’re delusional doesn’t make you ethical. These pages are filled with sad stories of people who lost it all because some people like Donofrio (and you) were actually successful in dumping their bad investments before the s*** hit the fan.

  337. Happy and Shocked on January 7th, 2010 8:43 pm

    The new franchise agreement has a breach of contract clause, that states you will pay $42,280 if you breach. Curves NEVER INTENDED to collect this money from you. What they are doing is settling, they will take $2,500 and THEN THEY WILL WRITE $40,000 OFF THEIR TAXES AS A LOSS. When this happens the franchisee that closed will receive a 1099 stating they have to claim this $40,000 on their income tax. It’s very smart business for CI and whoever thought of it has no ethics. CI is capitalizing on business closing, if you close your only option is bankruptcy unless you have more money than most, you can pick and choose the liabilities you want to declare.

  338. unhappy on January 7th, 2010 11:29 pm

    Hind site is always easy to wish for but the reality is that she didn’t sell and if she had would it have been her fault if the new owners club went south. At the time she wishes she sold curves was still going strong so what is unethical if she had sold out than. I’m sure there are hundreds of owners that wish they had sold in 04 or early 05 but you must remember that in those times the business was still viable and considered a good franchise. In those days there were unethical owners who sold their clubs at highly inflated prices and falsified the actual membership figures to substantiate their selling price. But one must remember that it was Howie who allowed that to happen and knew it was being done but did nothing to stop it . Howie screwed his management team in late 02 and 03 and it took until late o7 early 08 before the curves franchises started to go south because of Howie’s mismanagement. For the one owner who stated above that she tried to hang in there until the economy improves gives the impression that the economy is the reason why so many clubs have closed and that my friends is plain and simply not true. The failure of curves rests on Howie and Diane’s shoulders period. While I would have to agree that owners who are now aware of the unethical business practices that have brought Curves down and continue to sell not telling the buyer of the problems associated with Howie are just as unethical scumbags as Howie is so kudo’s to the owners who have closed but they all need to wake up and make sure that Howie can’t perpetuate this fraud on potentially new owners by speaking up and getting the word out about Curves International and Howie.

  339. Carol Cross on January 8th, 2010 2:42 pm

    SHOCKING and legal? If franchisees unknowingly sign contracts in which a a$42,280.00 FAILURE FEE is disguised in the small print, this works in two ways to subsidize the franchisor and the other special interests.

    If the courts might(?) consider the failure of the franchisee mitigates the breach, and the franchisee is close to insolvency, the settlement of the debt owed under the contract is the smarter way for the franchisor to go when the failing or failed franchisee can”t unload the business to another franchisee, and the franchisor doesn’t want to acquire the assets of the business.

    If the franchisor wants the assets for himself and can find a third party to buy the assets in a fire sale, the forgiveness of the $42,280.00 FAILURE FEE will work as an inducement for the franchisee to give the business away to the third party. new franchisee, or the franchisor, in order to get out from under the debt.

    Law, process, procedure, and accounting rules have all been stacked in the favor of franchisors and those at the top of the pyramid of franchising who take their profits off of the cheap labor and venture capital of those on the bottom of the pyramid have influenced the law, process, procedure, and accounting rules that encourage “stealing by deceit” in our economy.

    http://thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com

  340. Wipedout on January 9th, 2010 2:30 pm

    A story about a gym closing reveals that 258 of Florida’s 1,800-plus registered health clubs closed in 2008 alone. No mention of the 2009 figures, but they must be even worse.

    http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20100109/BUSINESS/1090323/1006/NEWS01/Gym+closing+frustrates+some+former+members

  341. another curver on January 10th, 2010 2:55 am

    re: forgiveness of “failure fee” and the 1099 tax form report by Curves.

    Just today I was reading a legal argument about how the IRS processes the 1099s issued by mortgage companies after a foreclosure. Some former home owners have been surprised to get big tax bills based on these 1099s. They were erroneous issues but needed clarification by the taxpayers. It seems we may find this to be true with cancelled franchise contracts, if Curves International is indeed, issuing 1099 forms to explain the changes to the IRS.
    However, the legal perspective is that the mortgage companies are not required to use the 1099 forms to list a “forgiveness of debt” but they choose to as it is an easy way to report the changes to the IRS. (Apparently this is the same thinking at Curves Internaitonal for their so-called losses) They don’t worry about how the IRS interprets the forms, they just want to satisfy their legal obligation to issue a report in the change of the contract.
    And (it seems) the overworked and underpaid peon in the IRS service centers doesn’t stop to think about the context of the 1099s: they just assume the 1099 refers to income received by the taxpayer. Then they issue a notice that there’s a discrepancy in the amount of income reported by the taxpayer and the numbers on the 1099. This notice comes in the form of a (intimidating) letter that holds the processing of the taxpayers return hostage and demands an explanation within 30days.
    The consensus of opinion by tax professionals, lawyers and professors (of the responses I read so far) is that a simple explanation in writing that there was no actual financial gain to the taxpayer is enough to dismiss these 1099s (and so to many writers also note that this is also true for any 1099s used to show forgiveness of debts)
    For each franchise I’ve closed, Curves International has issued me a legal demand for payment of unfulfilled royalties and advertisement fees. I plan to include copies of these with my 1040 with the explanatory paragraph describing how there is no income.
    One commentator noted that
    “Congress does not require taxpayers who are insolvent at the time of the debt forgiveness to report debt forgiveness as income. That’s in section 108. Insolvency just means that even after the debt forgiveness, the taxpayer still has more debts than assets to pay them”.
    When I closed my franchises it absolutely was because we had more debts than assets (available for payment), don’t you agree?
    Also there is an agency called Taxpayer Advocate Service which should be able to help if any of us get caught in such a situation. The only problem is, they too are underfunded and overworked.
    Good Luck and don’t forget to check with your state laws too. Just because you signed it, doesn’t mean everything CI put into it will hold up in your state.

  342. ADMIN on January 10th, 2010 11:51 am

    Thanks to WipedOut for the link to the original story.

    14% of Florida Health Clubs Closed in 2008

  343. Wipedout on January 14th, 2010 3:13 am

    Another Curves closes. But check the comments to the article. Apparently, one Curves is now open 24/7.

    http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_14181581

  344. ADMIN on January 14th, 2010 2:37 pm

    Gary Findley, once President of Curves and, I believe, an early franchisee has been promoted to Snap Fitness COO. Snap Fitness claims to have 2000 sold and to be opening 30-40 clubs per month.
    http://www.franchising.com/pressreleases/14155/

  345. ADMIN on January 14th, 2010 2:42 pm

    “Apparently, one Curves is now open 24/7.”
    Has anyone else heard of a 24 Hours Curves (with Keycard access) as the commenter reports in CA? Think this is CI approved or a renegade franchisee?

    The comments on the Santa Cruz article were also interesting as the Curves/Heavin “anti-choice” controversy obviously still resonates in CA.

  346. Nolongercurvesgal on January 14th, 2010 3:54 pm

    Oh, yes there is even a 24/7 Curves Owners Group. CI is not happy about the 24/7, but owners say they are doing everything possible just to keep their Curves open and pay the bills. Some are just calling it “extended hours” and not staffing their club all hours it is open. So I guess it is not CI approved.

  347. ADMIN on January 14th, 2010 5:19 pm

    What other things are Curves owners resorting to to try to remain open (that are not part of the approved concept)?

    Have some Curves gone coed or have coed hours? Or are selling product lines they’ve added themselves?

  348. unhappy on January 14th, 2010 8:36 pm

    There are many curves clubs that are 24/7 even though /Curves International has stated it is not approved. The group that has gone 24/7 has seen an increase in membership and it has definitely been a good and positive business decision for most clubs that have gone that route. Curves International has stated that they would not allow an owner to sell or transfer ownership of a club to a new owner if it was a 24/7 club.

    Curves International has several clubs that are co-ed and are testing the waters so to speak on that concept and there are clubs that are allowing men to work out at different hours than women. While it has always been the unwritten policy of Curves International that the clubs were only for women they have been sued for discrimination and lost several court cases on this. They tell all owners that if a man comes in to join you must by law let him join and allow your women members to force him to quit. They even changed their name from Curves for Women to just Curves because of the discrimination cases they lost in the courts a few years back.

    There has been an interesting development in the 24/7 clubs as of today but I am not in the liberty to explain what has happened as of yet but will keep you informed of what is happening on this in the next few weeks. I can tell you that Curves International is once again using underhanded and unethical tactics to try to prevent any more 24/7 clubs and to close the ones that are open.

  349. fitdude on January 14th, 2010 10:38 pm

    I had also heard through the grapevine that Curves was looking at the possibility of adding coed hours after hours; it looks like a few selected clubs have either been given permission or are doing it on their own. In fact, I have known of several Curves owners over the years who have experimented with non-approved products/programs to try to add extra profit. It’s too bad when a franchisee feels they must violate their franchise agreement in order to be successful.

    The problem of members hitting a plateau are only going to be realized faster if/when men start using the Curves nonadjustable equipment. Men want to feel more resistance; that is the nature of the beast.

    Rather than increase profits by attracting a whole new segment of the population, allowing men on this equipment is only going to speed up the inevitable.

    As a non-franchise competitor of Curves, my business has taken a very nice jump in sales as Curves clubs continue to close across the country and others want to open a club without the high franchise overhead to service the members left hanging. If anyone is interested in information on my program, email the ADMIN and he will see that it gets to me.

  350. Next step on January 14th, 2010 11:27 pm

    I think my area is spread out enough I have 20,000 people in my town, and get in 11-25 new members a month. (We are not growing) Every January I start with the same membership level. Why? Just as my kinesiology instructor said about circuit training is that “Think of your favorite dessert, then image eating it every day. How fast would that sweet become your least favorite?” We are not doing enough to keep our members in our clubs. CI talks about getting new members…I get them how do I keep them. What is there answer? More activities! I do tons of stuff every day, but it is not that! Our company fails because we fail to deliver results. We need to offer more to our members. We need them to lose weight. I could not believe in the fall 08 Diane mag it had a member who was upset about coming to Curves and not losing weight. What was Gary’s response to this member who had been coming for over a year? Your are internally getting healthier.

    I spoke to a new owner today in a near by town and last year she said the club lost 250+ members. I know she paid a good amount for this club, and that she thinks she can turn the attrition around. Good luck with that. (Just so everyone knows we are in an area that has not been hard hit by the economy. TEXAS) We have had some hard times but I think the unemployment rate is only slightly over the norm. My club is unsuccessful not because I don’t work at it, but the basic concept is unsuccessful. It works for awhile and then women get tired of it.

    My kinesiology teacher said that my club’s biggest problem is group activity. Without the classes the members are solely on their own. They may have a friend or an encouraging staff, but they do not have the competition that comes from trying to out do the girl next to them. (We do have competitions at our club) What he meant was we need the excitement of working toward a short term goal that group workout offers. The basic concept is good, but we have too many holes that need to be plugged. We need to offer more to our clients not just another shirt. Really who wants to give them another 2x shirt. I want to give that client a M size, but I just don’t think I have been given all the tools I need to get these over weight women to see the results that makes them motivated to stay.

    I currently put a 3-4 hundred dollars of personal money into the business each month, but since my loan note is for a $1,000 I keep it open. I will not sell it to someone else, because they would just have to close it down. I love the women at my gym and want them to lose weight. I hope to keep the club open, but it is so much work with no pay. I have never given my self a pay check from my club, and I have owned the club since 06. Gary how is your private jet? My house needs repairs that we can’t afford! My Christmas present to my 3 little children was a repair bill for our family car. (We did manage to give them each two presents but it was not a happy Christmas) I am sure your little girl got everything she wanted.

  351. Next step on January 14th, 2010 11:31 pm

    By the way our Christmas for the three children cost us just under $175. I would have put some toys on a credit card, but they are maxed out from keeping curves alive!

  352. unhappy on January 15th, 2010 2:45 am

    For crying out loud it’s not the workout that is causing the the curves clubs club to close at an ever increasing rate as fitdude an admitted competitor of curves tries to ‘explain. It’s Howie. Plain and simple, black and white, it’s the management or lack of that is the problem. Every time an owner comes up with a plan to increase membership and it works Howie tries to squelch it. If it is not his idea for get it. There is nothing in any of the contracts either 5 or 10 year that prevents the clubs from becoming 24/7. But because he didn’t come up with the idea and can’t make money off it he is doing his best to discourage owners from doing it. He even lied by stating that the liability insurance would not allow it and if they did it would be too costly to do. The liability insurance company Sports and Fitness has told owners that it is acceptable and that their cost for insurance will not increase. More lies from this so called Christian. No company can continue to operate when the head of that organization is nothing but a lying , dishonest and unethical business executive.. Period.

  353. unhappy on January 15th, 2010 2:56 am

    Next Step
    Such a sad story and truly heart wrenching as most of us have or have had kids and we all know how you must feel. Our prayers go out for you and your three kids. While it may not be Christian of me there are times that I feel like walking up to Howie and slapping the piss out of him for the pain he has caused so many decent owners. I obviously wouldn’t do that but I sure wouldn’t hold it against anyone that did because this man needs to someday understand the pain he has caused on so many people. God Bless you and your children Next step and we will pray that they have a better Easter.

  354. Next step on January 15th, 2010 10:35 am

    unhappy,

    I agree with you about the fact that Howie could give us some more leniencies in operating our clubs, so that we could keep are members happy. I don’t at this point know what will keep them working out that CI will approve but I know it is not the circuit alone. I think we were set to failure, because our founder’s business plan did not take into account that after a few months woman would get tired of the workout and quit coming. Yes, some women commit and then Curves changes their lives. However, and I don’t know how many of you agree, a large portion of women do not keep coming no matter how much I call, and they cancel their membership. I have always heard that getting a new client is harder then keeping one. Well in my case I can get them, but I really can’t keep them. Even in this down economy if our women were really seeing the results they would not quit.

    Here are the reasons I think I can’t keep them
    1. They get tired of the workout (I have been told this by many canceling members)
    2. They leave to go to coed gyms that offer more and for the most part are cheaper.
    3. They leave because the results were not there. For this one I think it has to do with diet or 30 minutes of exercise is not enough because of how very overweight they are.

    Everyone should keep one thing in mind that Howie was not an expert when he devised this plan, and that our system was new. Which is great and is the reason we had so many members. The facts are that the dot gov sites all say 30 is a maintenance mode and Curves even says we need our members to do more then just the circuit. Really? So I asked my AD if that is the case why not give them more here at our club. Why do I tell them to go for a walk? In the 100 degree heat? By the way if any one really wants to know about the study at Baylor, do I have some inside facts! The truth is the business plan is not cutting it, and since the way to fix it would not bring Howie money, I would bet we won’t be able to do that.

    When I said as my name next step, I did so because I want to take my club to the next level and offer these things, but then I would violate my agreement. I know I don’t want to lose my franchise, because some other sucker would just buy it and reopen it, plus I have to keep my smart equipment going. The ladies really like it. What the heck am I suppose to do. I did not get into business to lose money every month. Then know how to stop the leaks but can’t since it is a franchise with so many limitations.

  355. unhappy on January 15th, 2010 4:29 pm

    Next step,
    I beg to differ with you on the reasons you think you can’t keep members. You state
    “1. They get tired of the workout (I have been told this by many canceling members)”
    I have been with curves for over 13 years and not once have I heard that reason for canceling. Are you changing the machines around every month? Do you have days where the members go in the opposite direction once a week? Do you have a trainer in the middle of the circuit at all times? Do you teach the platform dance steps? How often do you buy new music and how often to you change music?
    How often to you rearrange the club, bring fresh flowers or floral arrangement’s to the club. What circuit games are you playing and do you have a trivia board?

    “2. They leave to go to coed gyms that offer more and for the most part are cheaper.” This type of member was never yours and should not have joined. You can tell when they sign up that they will be moving on Curves clientele would not be caught in a coed gym period. .

    “3. They leave because the results were not there.”
    It is your and your trainers fault if the members results are not there. First off you were suckered into buying curves smart which does not work but even with that said you have been supplied with all the tools to make sure that member reaches her goal. You are to do a weigh and measure every month and if the member isn’t losing inches and pounds that it is up to you and your trainers to figure out what is going on and why. Granted it is usually because the member hasn’t changed her eating habits but not always. Your Curves manual has all the information you need to determine what problem is and how to correct it. If the member won’t follow your suggestions at this time you are eventually going to lose her as a member. That is a fact of life and that is why you need to constantly be bringing new members in.

    The reason the clubs are closing at an alarming rate is directly related to the way curves international has been mismanaged. You and many other clubs were sold curves smart under the assumption that it was new technology and that curves international would follow up with a huge national advertising campaign to support your investment. Well first off it is not new technology. It is over 11 year old now and never worked that and doesn’t work now. Secondly have you seen the advertising campaign that you and all the other owners were promised. Of course not! Besides the advanced workout is a much better workout and works better for membership retention. This is only one of the mismanagement problems associated with curves international and I could go on and on but I’m sure you can point them out also.

  356. Next step on January 15th, 2010 9:39 pm

    unhappy,

    I can see you sitting at your computer and cursing about my post. I think we all have a different take on this whole organization, but we can agree that CI is dropping the ball in more places then one.

    With that said I do appreciate your helpful comments and we already do 90% of them but we will work harder on the other 10%.

    I still hold firm to my belief that a lot of the problem is boredom. I am not sure what your back ground is, but mine is in the study of exercise psychology. (This happened after I purchased my first club). With that in mind I know that we are not cutting it and never will. As I mentioned early just as my kinesiology instructor said about circuit training is that “Think of your favorite dessert, then image eating it every day. How fast would that sweet become your least favorite?”

    I can think of a member who was with me for over two years, then she quit September 2008. She came back in January 1st to quit again in February of 2009. What she told me is that she just could not bring herself to go around in circles anymore. It is not every member who quits for this reason but a lot do.

    Well with a lot more work we will see how things go and I really am giving it my all 200%. Maybe just maybe I will one day be able to write myself a paycheck. NO I have not ever done that in 4 years.

    I think how many of us work all weekend putting out flyers? Going to health fairs? I put out 1,000 of flyers a month. Good luck everyone to those who have closed, to the ones left open, and the ones that will have a day in court. May peace come to us all!

  357. unhappy on January 16th, 2010 3:11 am

    I certainly second that and good luck in the future.

  358. another curver on January 16th, 2010 4:10 pm

    Dear Next Step,
    I think “boredom” is one of those adjectives women use to label the real problem: many of us are overwhelmed with so many other “needs” pressing on us that we don’t put our physical needs for a workout at the top of the list of priorities.
    This doesn’t just happen at Curves (not does it just happen to women), it happens at all exercise programs of all types. The exception is recreational exercise (ie hiking and rowing), and competitive exercise (ie tennis and marathons), and even they eventually succumb to that reality for many women.
    For instance, from personal experience, I know that Curves is one of the most convenient programs to effectively manage back pain, but even I find it becomes difficult for me to prioritize that time to go to a Curves (since I’m not working there).
    So, I finally surmised that “pain” and “time” and “boredom” are often just an easy way to avoid saying, “I don’t have the energy to prioritize my need for basic strength training”. Not every woman has this issue, but it does seem to be a big part of the women’s cultural subgroup in this country.
    Best Wishes

  359. FormerCurvesOwner on January 18th, 2010 9:20 pm

    Hey, I finally saw a Curves commercial in 2010. I caught it as I was channel surfing, the program …….

    700 Club

    God help, I would say us, but I am no longer an owner, so God help and Bless those of you still around.

  360. CURVES: Can Indie Clubs Thrive Where Curves Failed? : Unhappy Franchisee on January 19th, 2010 3:30 pm

    [...] owners than independent operators.  Many comments by Curves owners here (see the comments on Robert Lay’s Story) cite the fact that they are pressured to pay closing or “failure” fees if they cannot remain [...]

  361. ADMIN on January 19th, 2010 3:43 pm

    CURVES: Can Indie Clubs Thrive Where Curves Failed?

  362. unhappy on January 28th, 2010 5:35 pm

    The group action lawsuit count down is on. It should be going to trial in mid March of this year. Most owners who are involved in the lawsuit are counting the days before they will finally have their day in court. Will Howie finally be held accountable for his unethical, immoral and greedy ways? , Will Curves continue to even exist or is this the end to what could have been the greatest health franchise in the world? Since the first of the year record numbers of Curves franchises have closed their doors and hundreds of 5 year franchisee contracts are about to come up for renewal. Will they renew or close? Are you a curves owner? If so tell us what are your intentions are you going to renew or are you going to close?

  363. Carol Cross on January 28th, 2010 7:20 pm

    Unhappy! Don’t hold your breath! Best of Luck — The MBE-UPS BSA Lawsuit belweather plaintiffs were dismissed in a summary judgement in favor of MBE-UPS over a year ago and the other 200 plaintiffs in the mass action are still waiting for a decision from the judge in the Federal Court as to their status. The other plaintiffs inthe other lawsuit against MBE/UPS have yet to get before a jury and are looking to a class action lawsuit.

    Obviously, the delay works against franchisees who run out of money or die! Stacked deck! Most of these big coporations win even when the government sues them! What does that tell you?

  364. Next step on January 28th, 2010 11:28 pm

    unhappy,

    What court will the trial be held at? As for the amount of clubs that closed I can’t get an accurate count. I asked Curves yesterday when I had to call for something, but the secretary said she did not know. If you locate a Curves on their site almost all of them are closed. I had to locate a curves in NY last week for a member and out of 16 only three were still open. Well, where I am from none of them are closed. We all seem to be doing ok, but about an hour away a few have closed. We also did not have a saturation problem. As for if we will renew, it is hard to say because a 10,000 closing fee would be a lot to pay.

  365. another curver on January 29th, 2010 12:53 am

    Dear Next Step
    If you are at time for a renewal there is no question of any kind of closing fee. A “closing fee” is what is the general reference to Curves demand for payment in consideration of royalties and advertising fees not paid if you close before your contract is up for renewal.
    My lawyer said that it doesn’t sail past our state laws but I know many franchisees in my state who paid this because Curves International bullied them into it.
    Good Luck

  366. Carol on January 29th, 2010 2:28 pm

    to: another curver. There was mention previously about “my lawyer said that it doesn’t sail past our state laws”………….What state are you in —- just curious and hoping it is Maryland.

  367. unhappy on January 29th, 2010 4:52 pm

    TO ALL CURVES OWNERS

    There is an interesting article in the Waco newspaper about the Heavin’s and Curves and can be found by going to http://www.wacotrib.com/news/82861642.html. Is there any Curves owner out there that believes his true intentions for doing this were anything but self promotion and greed. He will have his franchise owners sell the shirts and then he will donate the revenues to get a tax write-off. He will use the expense for the jet trip as a tax deduction also and I believe that his true motivating reasons for doing this is not because it is a Christian thing to do a self promotional act. A man is judged by his actions present an past and if we look at his life history it shows he doesn’t have a Christian bone in his whole body. His whole life has been self promotion and greed. Many Curves owners now believe that he displays many characteristics of a psychopathic personality. What do you think? Is Howie a psychopath who is self absorbed bent on destruction and who continuously lies and blames owners for their business failing rather than to look in a mirror and to see the true cause of the downfall of curves staring back at him?

  368. unhappy on January 29th, 2010 4:55 pm

    To Next step

    Here is the court and doc # of the group action lawsuit.
    FEDERAL COURT
    U.S. CLERK OFFICE
    800 FRANKLIN ROOM 800
    WACO TX. 76701
    254-750-1501
    CASE OR DOC # 07′ CV’ 048

  369. unhappy on January 29th, 2010 5:14 pm

    Carol,
    Obviously I won’t hold by breath but before you talk about the Curves Lawsuits you really should become more informed about the court actions that have already taken place. Curves already tried to get a summary judgment and failed so it will be going to trail by jury. I am sorry to hear about your families experience with up franchise lawsuit and fully understand your distaste for franchisers. But don’t you dare rain on our parade as all curves owners need to remain hopeful and positive. Instead of bringing negativity to this site please try to stay positive and supportive of what we as owners are trying to accomplish here. Contrary to your opinion there have been many lawsuits that have been won against franchise’s even though you weren’t successful. You could be right Carol but please keep your opinions to your self at least until the cases are either heard or thrown out of court. Than if you are right you can gloat and tell me you told us so. But for now I don’t need to hear it. OK

  370. unhappy on January 29th, 2010 5:17 pm

    Next Step,
    That is great it’s not legal in your state but more importantly it is not legal in the state of Texas either and that is where the cases will be heard because of our franchise agreement. That a win /win for all of us.

  371. Guest on January 29th, 2010 5:26 pm

    “Instead of bringing negativity to this site” “keep your opinions to your self”

    LOL, thank you, that is the funniest thing I’ve read in ages!

    You tell her man! haha THIS site is NOTHING but negativity. And you are going to call other people hypocrites? Priceless. Just priceless.

  372. Carol Cross on January 29th, 2010 5:46 pm

    OK, Unhappy! You know I would be delighted if you won a big lawsuit or are compensated in a settlement tlement from Curves for the damages you have suffered, and I will be watching your progress.

    I still wonder why I can’t find any Case Law where any lawsuits have been won against franchisors! All the actual case law I can find has been in favor of the franchisor, except for a few “unlawful terminations.” I sincerely hope I am not right and that the three branches of government hav e not stacked the deck against franchisees under the guise of serving the public good.

    Could you cite me some cases when you have time? —or were all these “Wins” a settlement of the issues that are not a matter of public record? What do you think of the Quiznos proposed settlement, or don’t you follow this?

  373. unhappy on January 29th, 2010 8:11 pm

    Carol
    You may have answered your question yourself. I’m sure many cases have been settled before they ever get to court as most lawsuits are settled in that manor because of the huge awards that are handed out by juries when the litigants win. One that does come to mind is the case in Ca. against krispy kreem. I know it went to court and the franchisee won a huge settlement as I spoke to the lawyer that handled that particular case when I was shopping for an attorney. I haven’t had the time to follow the Quiznos settlement . Please give us a review I’m sure many would be interested in reading it.
    In the next week I will try to do some research in my limited free time about cases dealing with franchise’s and will get back to you.

  374. unhappy on January 29th, 2010 8:28 pm

    To guest,
    Well Well Well glad we could make your day and give you a laugh! But I would hardly agree with you as most posters are not negative here. Their posts may seem negative to you but most of the people here are positive telling their personal stories about a company where the management has continuously lied, cheated and bullied them into paying money they didn’t have by using intimidation tactics that are unethical, immoral and quite possibly illegal. Granted the posts are very negative towards Curves International and its fearless leader Howie but the actual writers of those posts are some of the most positive people you will ever meet.

  375. Guest on January 29th, 2010 9:17 pm

    To “unhappy”,

    “Well Well Well glad we could make your day and give you a laugh! ”

    And I’m thrilled I could make you “glad” and hopefully “happy” for a change.

  376. unhappy on January 30th, 2010 6:38 pm

    Dear Guest,

    Actually I’m almost always happy with a smile on my face but I chose the unhappy moniker as I am so disillusioned by what Curves has become under Howies leadership. Born again Christian my ass he never has been a Christian and will surly go to you know where for all the pain and suffering he has caused here on earth. To him it is all about greed, greed ,greed and more greed.

  377. Next step on January 30th, 2010 10:20 pm

    unhappy.

    you lost me when you said,

    “That is great it’s not legal in your state but more importantly it is not legal in the state of Texas either and that is where the cases will be heard because of our franchise agreement. That a win /win for all of us.”

  378. Next step on January 30th, 2010 10:21 pm

    sorry what is not legal?

  379. unappyh on January 31st, 2010 12:23 am

    Trying to charge the closing fee or for that matter the franchise fee and add fee after you have closed

  380. another curver on January 31st, 2010 8:22 pm

    Exactly. Remember, just because something is written into a contract (especially if it’s in fine print), does not mean it is legal. Despite the impression that franchisors have better legal standing than franchisees (and i’m not doubting it), contract law holds that agreements have to be reasonable. That is overwhelmingly true in all courts across our land. The problem is that we don’t always agree on what is “reasonable”.
    I used to write contracts as part of being an administrator for several small businesses and I had to research contract law in several states. I also sat in several court cases over a ten year period, and the judges opinion (of what is reasonable and law abiding) always overrides whatever is written in a contract.
    However, in WA state, where I live, my lawyer said that regardless of what’s written in the contract, there is no legal right for the franchisor to collect fees from me when I’ve closed the business. Now that might have been in the context of my filing bankruptcy, I’m not positive of that, but I actually interviewed several bankruptcy lawyers and they all positively scowled over the idea of it. So, I urge all franchisees to seek legal counsel before capitulating to Curves International’s demands for payment.

  381. Carol Cross on February 1st, 2010 1:51 pm

    Another Curver: Good advice! If you are closing because you are failing or are in danger of failing because you are not breaking even after exhausting the estimated startup costs and startup time element and can prove this, it is unlikely that a Judge would uphold the contract terms that treat your closing as an “abandonment” of the business and as abandonment of your contractual obligations and promises.

    If you can’t afford legal counsel which is not cheap — you can always close down and do your best to follow the golden rule and wait to see if Curves will take you to court to try and get a judgment, before you hire an attorney. I haven’t seen any reports from Curves or ex-Curves franchisees who have indicated that Curves is taking failing franchisees to court to try to get judgments. I would imagine that the contract permits the franchisor to make any kind of deal he wants to with any individual franchisee (as has been indicated by the postings) and this would probably not be illegal because of the contract terms.

    Since they have been settling for different dollar amounts, I don’t think they would want to deal with this in the courts.

    Remember that the “failure fee” is in the contract to begin with to give the franchisee the incentive to try to sell the business or to keep the franchisee trying to breakeven because as long as the franchisee keeps trying or in the event the franchisee can “unload” your business to someone else, the franchisor is getting his profits right off of the top.

  382. Carol 2nd on February 1st, 2010 4:04 pm

    I, apparently, am getting confused with another “Carol” on here. My daughter is an owner of a Curves which closed their doors on Dec. 31, 09. She has ful-filled everything on the list required by Curves, except for the financial obligation. There are no monies to fulfill that requirement. It’s a “NO BRAINER.”

  383. Carol 2nd on February 1st, 2010 4:13 pm

    I, apparently, am getting confused with another “Carol” on here. My daughter is an owner of a Curves which closed their doors on Dec. 31, 09. She has fulfilled everything on the list required by Curves, except for the financial obligation. There are no monies to fulfill that requirement. It’s a “NO BRAINER.” If there’s no money to keep the doors open, how in the world is there any money to pay them??????

    My question still remains……”there is mention of “not legal in my state.” What state are they talking about??????? Does anyone know.

    My daughter has received an email from Curves Int. – they are now sending her to “legal” because she has not ful-filled her legal obligation.

  384. unhappy on February 1st, 2010 5:44 pm

    to Carol 2nd
    send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com at this site and request he forward it to me and include your phone number and I will answer your question. don’t sign anything Curves send you until you talk to me. unhappy

  385. unhappy on February 1st, 2010 5:54 pm

    to Carol Cross,

    You are not right in your assumption that Curves is not suing owners for the franchise and advertising fees. They have and continue to file suits against owners.
    when giving advice try to stick to what you know and not what you think is happening as your advice to Carol 2nd is wrong for the most part. I just got done talking to a women from Iowa who just received her summons from Waco and she closed in May of last year. Curves is that far behind in sending out notice to owners because of all the closings have overwhelmed them. Well over 100 per month and climbing.

  386. Carol 2nd on February 1st, 2010 6:28 pm

    Who is Sean and can you list his email address. Thanks

  387. ADMIN on February 1st, 2010 6:47 pm

    If you would like your contact info forwarded to unhappy, email it to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com.

  388. Carol Cross on February 1st, 2010 8:25 pm

    Unhappy! I have only tried to indicate what I believe to be true. I was not aware that Curves was taking ex-franchisees to Court and that the Courts have been enforcing the terms of the “failure fee” against those who were failing to thrive and who had exhausted the estimatated startup costs and who had sincerely tried to make their businesses work but closed down to stop the bleeding to avoid becoming insolvent.

    I wasn’t talking about “advertising fees” or the back franchise royalties — unless by this you mean the terms of “abandonment of the franchise” before the expiration of the term of the contract, i.e. the failure fee.

    As I indicated before, it is my belief and opinion that franchisees just can’t close up because they are not making actual profits and want to do something else because the contract terms prevent this kind of abandonment and treat such abandonment as a violation of the contract terms. It is my belief and opinion that if the franchisee is making enough to cover overhead and debt service and a small salary, the “failure fee” in the contract would be upheld by the Courts. Franchisors never promise “profits” within the written contracts as I’m sure you know.

    I have read case law where the “failure fee” -the liquidated damages– are not upheld by the courts in some states when these damages are merely a “penalty” for failure of the franchisee to thrive. I have read other case law where the “royalty damages” or “liquidated damages” have been upheld by the courts as a reasonable term of the contract.

  389. Guest on February 2nd, 2010 12:50 am

    “I have only tried to indicate what I believe to be true.”

    Don’t. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t talk.

    “I have read case law where the “failure fee” -the liquidated damages…”

    The “Failure Fee” is not liquidated damages. It is a $10,000 closing fee specific to Curves that CI demands in addition to the future royalties and ad contributions when a club closes before the contract term is expired.

    Perhaps you should do a little more reading and less writing about what you don’t know about. http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-negotiating-the-10000-closing-fee/

  390. Another Guest on February 2nd, 2010 3:15 am

    Guest -

    “The “Failure Fee” is not liquidated damages. It is a $10,000 closing fee specific to Curves that CI demands in addition to the future royalties and ad contributions when a club closes before the contract term is expired.”

    “If you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t talk.”

    You should take your own advice and not talk about things you are obviously not fully versed on. With everyone I know that has been asked to pay it, the $10,000 closing fee is in lieu of, NOT in addition to, future royalties and ad funds.

    As far as her voicing her opinion, an opinion that you’ll note she qualifies, that’s ALL that goes on here. Her opinion, his opinion, their opinion, your opinion. And well, you know what they say about opinions…

    BTW, did you even read what is at the link you referred her to? From your ignorant comments, it’s pretty clear you didn’t. Classic.

  391. Guest on February 2nd, 2010 8:55 am

    Carol Cross writes: “Remember that the “failure fee” is in the contract to begin with to give the franchisee the incentive to try to sell the business…”

    Really Carol? Where exactly did CI put the $10K “failure fee” in the Curves franchise agreement? Can you tell me which section you’re referring to? You have read it, correct?

    Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe the “failure fee” is in the “contract” that the current franchisees signed. It’s almost funny that while the contract clause doesn’t exist, Carol Cross can confidently explain the franchisor’s motivation and insidious motives for it.

    What’s not funny is she’s giving uninformed legal advice yet she’s not a lawyer, not a franchisee and she’s not in the least informed. I may have gotten some details wrong, but I’m not telling people not to hire a lawyer, go ahead and close and don’t worry, you won’t get sued. She is, and it’s irresponsible.

  392. another curver on February 2nd, 2010 10:14 am

    The format and wording of the contracts changed ridiculously often. A failure fee may be defined in some of the contracts and not in others. My two contracts with CI were 15 months apart and worlds different in many significant ways.
    **** Anybody can file a lawsuit regardless of it’s legal validity.
    A legal finding brought in a court in one jurisdiction does not necessarily hold water in another jurisdiction. (State Jurisdictions are notorious for not honoring findings in other states.)
    Thus in my state (Wa) where CI’s claims would not be honored according to more than one lawyer I talked to (but perhaps only in the context of my Bankruptcy conditions?) I feel economically protected, but I would not if I decided to take up residence in the same county as Waco.
    Summary: Talk To A Lawyer in your jurisdiction!

  393. natalie on February 2nd, 2010 2:10 pm

    Carol cross is just trying to be helpful but she is not a curves owner and doesn’t have any idea what is going on with curves and the problems between CI and the owners. She should not offer advice about this period. If any of the curves owners need help contact unhappy as he is the most knowledgeable owner on these subjects by far. There is a lot that Carol Cross is not aware of but she tries to come across as she does when the best policy would be to keep her mouth shut and type on her own board. Oh well thats my two cents worth but I doubt carol will get the message. AGAIN IF YOU ARE A CURVES OWNER AND NEED ADVICE GET A HOLD OF UNHAPPY. I’M GLAD I DID AND YOU WILL BE TOO.

  394. tickedoff on February 3rd, 2010 4:47 pm

    Has anyone out there received their letter of abondoment from Curves and thus received a summons? If so how long after the letter did you receive it and what is happening?

  395. unhappy on February 3rd, 2010 6:45 pm

    Tickedoff,
    All owners who close early or for that matter piss off Howie receive a letter of abandonment . Now days when you close it can take anywhere from 3 months up to 6 months before you will receive the abandonment letter. Normally it takes 3 to 12 weeks but as a result of all the closings since December that time frame has once again been extended. Many owners have received a summons and are in the process of going to court against Curves and that process usually takes about the same amount of time that it took to get your abandonment letter. One of the clubs that closed back east in early October just got the summons the first part of this week . At the national convention Howie stated that they were not going to ask for the closing fee any more and just go after owners in the courts but once again Howie lied as owners who have given notice of intent to close in January all have received the new closing packet with the 10,000 dollars fee included. If he is smart he may wait to see who wins the court action on the summons he has sent out before he continues sending more. We don’t know that yet but it would be the most logical course of action considering it looks like he is going to lose those cases. There is a statute of limitations on how long he can wait to file against owners but that starts at the ending date of your individual franchise agreement. I’m not sure how long the statute of limitations is but the next time I talk to the lawyers handling the cases I will certainly ask and post on the site so all owners will know. Unhappy

  396. unhappy on February 3rd, 2010 7:43 pm

    Owners are now taking bet’s on if Mr. Gary Heavin will be running Curves in 12-14 months or sooner. They also think this has relevance to the lack of communication
    regarding the typical March regional meeting and especially Convention. Are the rumors true that Curves International is for sale? I have heard from credible sources that it is in the works. Does anyone else have information concerning this
    development? In all honesty this is probably the only thing that could keep Curves Clubs open. Present owners should demand him to sell asap for the betterment of the Curves Mark or brand.

  397. unhappy on February 4th, 2010 3:46 am

    Past and present owners we are working on getting a national news paper to do a story on Curves. The author would like to speak with owners for the story. If you are willing to go on the record please send an email to this address unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com. and he will forward it to me. If you don’t want to go on the record but wouldn’t mind sending an email to the author asking him to write the story that would be helpful also so drop an email to Admin and he will make sure I get and I will send you the info you need to contact the author.

    unhappy but getting happier as the days go on and we get closer to the start of the group action lawsuit. March 21 is the day so mark it in your date book.

  398. jd on February 4th, 2010 11:09 am

    Unhappy, you might want to change your date book. I looked up your case, and it looks like the attorneys have agreed to push the Trial back to the last week of August.

  399. jacki on February 7th, 2010 3:18 am

    Some information regarding a previous post…. John McCord used to be the VP of Franchise Sales for Curves. Gary set him up as a re-sales business broker so he could, I believe, make more money off the re-sale process. Making $5,000 per re-sale wasn’t enough for Gary. When I was selling my Curves, McCord would not “take-on” my club because I wasn’t profitable enough. I learned later McCord took a percentage of the sale price, so the more profitable the club, the more he could sell it for, the more money he made. They were never really there to help the owners sell the club, just there to make another buck!
    Also… how did Gary get the name “Howie?”

  400. jacki on February 7th, 2010 3:26 am

    One more question… any word on how the international market is going. When I sold my Curves they were going big in Australia and had just opened the 10,000th Curves in Paris. Are the internatioinal Curves sustaining?

  401. Guest on February 7th, 2010 3:54 am

    “I learned later McCord took a percentage of the sale price, so the more profitable the club, the more he could sell it for, the more money he made. They were never really there to help the owners sell the club, just there to make another buck!”

    Isn’t that the job of a broker? To make money? You begrudge them that? As a business owner you are a capitalist. If you aren’t you need to stop working for yourself and start feeding off the government teat. And “The more profitable the business, the more they could sell it for.” Really? Wow, what insight. Ever sell or buy a house? You do know that the realtor (broker) there makes a profit off the sale right? And since it too is percentage based, the more valuable the house, the bigger the commission. These are pretty basic business concepts. I seriously hope that none of the stellar business minds that post all over this blog are on your witless (not a typo) list. No wonder franchisors win these cases left and right.

  402. unhappy on February 8th, 2010 8:11 pm

    The international clubs are having just as ruff of time as the US clubs and are closing just as fast. There are no longer 10000 clubs world wide as there are less than 4300 clubs left. We have nick named him Howie as he had a gone to court to change his name after he was arrested in the early 90′s for defrauding members of a health chain in Dallas with his brother. He hates the name Howard because of his past.
    To guest fortunately not everyone on this blog is as cynical as you and you should do more research about McCords before you speak as it only shows how stupid you really are you dimwit.

  403. Guest on February 9th, 2010 4:44 am

    “To guest fortunately not everyone on this blog is as cynical as you”

    No, no, you’re right, nothing but sunshine and light, hope and optimism here. LOL

    “and you should do more research about McCords before you speak as it only shows how stupid you really are you dimwit.”

    I don’t see how my being stupid changes the fact that brokers and realtors etc… all make a commission based on the value of the sale. But hey, you’re the “expert” here. I see that someone posted recently that 258 Curves closed in Florida in 08 – so I guess you’re right, this Howie person is surely to blame for that massive closing. (and what are you? 8? “We call him Howie cause it makes him feel bad.” Wow. Are you going to get your cooties shot?)

    Oh wait, that wasn’t 258 Curves closing in Fl, it was 258 (14%) of health clubs closing in Fl. To me, mind you as you pointed out I’m not so bright, but still it looks like they are saying that health clubs OTHER than Curves are closing? WOW, this Howie guy really is impressive if he is causing that much devastation to the entire health club market! Hmmmmm…kinda makes you think though that maybe just maybe something other than poor franchisor management is going on here. But like I said, you’re the “expert” and I’m SURE that you had nothing to do with the downfall of YOUR business(es). What do I know though, I’m a dimwit right? I guess we’ll find out in March (or is it August now?)

  404. visitor on February 9th, 2010 11:25 am

    “that wasn’t 258 Curves closing in Fl, it was 258 (14%) of health clubs closing in Fl. … it looks like they are saying that health clubs OTHER than Curves are closing? WOW, this Howie guy really is impressive if he is causing that much devastation to the entire health club market!”

    Guest, of course other health clubs other than Curves are closing. But Curves owners SHOULD be better off, right? After all, they spent the extra money to join the franchise chain that hypes its experience, success story, no experience necessary, we’re all in this together, more than 10,000 clubs worldwide, etc. etc. etc.?

    Curves clubs are closing in droves. The point is, what is CI doing about it? What assistance are they giving struggling owners? Their owners are in crisis mode… are they? The only communication from CI reported here by franchise owners seems to be about closing fees and more payments to Curves.

    It seems to me that the problem is that Gary or Howard or whatever you want to call him doesn’t seem to be agonizing over these club closures the way a concerned, conscientious “christian” franchisor should be. Even if the whole industry is struggling, franchisees joined Curves because they weren’t going to have to go it alone. It seems that not only are they alone, CI actually adds to the pressure rather than helping to relieve it.

  405. unhappy on February 9th, 2010 3:27 pm

    visitor you are right not only is CI adding to the pressure of the owners Howie is the direct reason so many clubs have, are and continue to close. With him at the helm this ship is about to go down just like the Titanic.

  406. Guest on February 9th, 2010 5:52 pm

    “But Curves owners SHOULD be better off, right?”

    No. During such a downturn in economic conditions no business is safe. Add to that the clearly naive business notions I’ve seen here and you are destined to fail. To assume that your franchisor should have seen this coming when the best economic minds did not is silly. It shouldn’t really be a surprise though, just like the rest of society, everyone wants to blame someone else for their failure or predicament.

    “no experience necessary” [in the fitness industry]

    Does that mean “no common sense necessary”? Or “no basic business sense”? I don’t think so.

    “the way a concerned, conscientious “christian” franchisor should be.”

    This is a BUSINESS, not a charity. If you are looking for Christian Charity, go to your local church. I don’t believe that the law requires anyone, even a Christian, to be charitable. I guess you can hope that part of the next failed bailout they will include some money for you, but if in business you have “depended on the kindness of strangers.” You should join Blanche in the nut house.

  407. visitor on February 10th, 2010 12:49 am

    Guest:
    You can drop the snide, condescending tone. You can also stop treating anyone who raises an opposing viewpoint as naive or unwilling to accept appropriate responsibility.

    Of course it’s a business. Of course owning a business is a risk. Of course Heavin is not responsible for non-Curves failures. Of course no franchisor can foresee economic downturns or how a new concept will mature. Great, obvious points.

    What is CI doing to address and adapt to these economic changes? How have they evolved the concept? What innovative campaigns have they come up with? New pricing strategies? New profit centers? Fresh ideas?

    Take a look at a good franchise company, like McDonald’s. They are constantly adapting, testing new ideas, launching new ideas, new products, fresh ideas, repackaging old ideas. Most of their successful ideas came from collaborating with their franchisees, listening to their needs and ideas.

    Curves is a one-trick pony and wants to pretend its 20 year old concept is still new and revolutionary. There’s a lot of work to be done, but CI seems content to sit back and let its dated system grow more and more obsolete and lose more and more clubs while pretending to still be at 10K and growing.

  408. Wipedout on February 10th, 2010 3:19 am

    There were 18 Curves in my county in 2005. There are nine today. Go to last year’s phone book and check how many are left in your area.

  409. Another Curves Owner on February 10th, 2010 10:39 am

    I have been reading through the posts. Wish we had seen this prior to our buying JUST THIS LAST AUGUST!!! We have not made a dime and probably will not. My goal is to at least see ourselves throug this pending lease and then we will see what happens. I personally want out. I can’t believe we made such an uninformed decision! I did go through my agreement and on page 17 it states Noncompliance damages – The lesser amount between 42,840.00 or the remaining months on your franchise agreement multiplied by 1,190.00. HUH? Is it true that some states may disregard this due to their laws? I would like to find out more about this. What about Texas and Oklahoma?

  410. Another Curves Owner on February 10th, 2010 10:42 am

    Forgot to add about the noncompliance damages – this is to be paid on demand and is payable if your franchise agreement is terminated due to your default or breach.

  411. unhappy on February 10th, 2010 12:13 pm

    In 07 there were 29 in my metro area now there is 9 and none are making money but just hanging on hoping for change.

  412. NJNow on February 10th, 2010 3:37 pm

    I need to write letters to my Attorney General and the BBB about the unethical way our Curves has been treated by CI and I don’t know any format. Has anyone written any of these letters? I take heart in the fact that we have actually run a business Even though we have lost most of our money, we have learned lessons about management, promotion and hard work that we couldn’t have learned any other way!

  413. NJNow on February 10th, 2010 4:15 pm

    I need to write letters to my Attorney General and the BBB about the unethical way our Curves has been treated by CI and I don’t know any format. Has anyone written any of these letters? I take heart in the fact that we have actually run a business Even though we have lost most of our money, we have learned lessons about management, promotion and hard work that we couldn’t have learned any other way!

  414. another curver on February 10th, 2010 11:09 pm

    to: Another Curves Owner – Talk To A Lawyer! Find out if those clauses in your contract are enforceable in your state. Find out HOW they could be enforced (or not) and decide what you want to do from there. You need the facts for your state, talk to a lawyer in your state.

    to NJNow re letters to the Attorney General and the BBB.
    First, write out all your concerns from your heart. Separate them and number them. Sure, some of them will be tied together, almost like opposite sides of the same coin. Don’t worry about that.
    Second, for each one, figure out if there is a remedy that will make you happy. Write it down.
    Third, think about how ‘reasonable’ that remedy is. If it’s reasonable, circle it.
    Fourth, re-write your list. First, list “Grievances”. Then list “Reasonable Remedies”. Finally list your “Dream Remedies”.
    Now your thoughts are “organized”. Call your Attorney General’s office. They may have a form to fill out instead of accepting letters. They may have a staff person who can help you. You won’t know until you call them. The more organized you sound, the more willing they will be to listen to you.
    If you can’t get through to a live person at your AG’s office, call or email your state representative. You are a business person, you have a business problem and you need help resolving it. That’s all you have to say in your email to your state rep. You might get excellent help that way. If you don’t, try another one of YOUR elected officials.
    If you don’t know how to find your elected officials contact info, it’s time to take the initiative to do so. Just go to google and type: who’s the elected representative for ___” (fill in your zip code). That is a starting place. There are other ways too. Look for your state’s government website. They’ll probably have a search engine for you.
    You have several elected officials to help you. Your federal representatives, and your state representatives, as well as your federal senators and your state senators. They all have office staff who can help you or direct you to help. If they don’t, contact one of the other ones till you find someone who does.

    Good Luck.

  415. unhappy on February 11th, 2010 12:03 am

    Sorry to hear about your nightmare with curves. . Remember to file complaints with the following.

    http://www.bbb.org/

    http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c

    http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml

  416. Agatha on February 11th, 2010 1:57 pm

    From everything I have been reading this will probably still be considered abandonment but I will ask anyway.
    Besides not making any money, now the property I am leasing has gone up for sale and the present owner does not want to keep renting and there is no where else for us to go that we can afford. Probably could not any way because of the costs that ci would charge us. Has anyone else had this kind of problem and if so what happened?

  417. tickedoff on February 11th, 2010 3:12 pm

    Agatha, I do believe that no matter what the reason you close and you have not forfilled your contract with CI you will receive the letter of abandoment. I begged CI to help me keep my club opened. The only thing they would do is put me to a % base IF I would sign a new contract. Who in their right mind would do that when all signs showed things would not get better because of it. I owned my Curves for 7 years and did everything in my power to keep it going. Many women relied on me and I loved my club. For over 2 years I did not tkle a paycheck and if I could at least make my bills I would still be there today. CI wanted $10,000 and me to do everything they wanted. Within 6 days they came down to $2,500. I did everything they asked EXCEPT destroy MY equiptment. That was not good enough. They wanted the money plus my equipment or no mutual release would be signed. I stuck to my guns about my equipment so needless to say I DID NOT send them the money. I got my letter of abandoment recently and now they want all furure advertising and franchise fees. WHAT FUTURE? They took that by ABANDONDING ME!!! Good Luck!

  418. Next step on February 11th, 2010 9:38 pm

    To all that think that the people on here are whiners. Who had the weight management promotion last September really help? For me it took away a partnership with weight watchers, and did not bring me any new members. Actually I have never gotten a new member from MY advertisement of the weight loss classes either.

    When I asked for help from CI they told me to cut my hours. My busy time is when we open, lunch, 3 pm when our teachers come, and 5:30-6 when the working women come and we close from 1-3 pm and close at 7pm, so this advice was of no help. The other recommendation was to talk with your landlord and get the rent reduced, we pay .50 a sq ft. down from a $1 last year. I had already made that arrangement, so I said that won’t help what else do you have. Their answer was more flyers and lead bags. I am sorry I work all day and have no time for more flyers, I already put out a 1,000 a month, and my lead bags have had no good returns. I do still try them. I asked again what else? Let me tell you their next response was NO REPLY. So don’t tell me they are there for us, don’t tell me that they are helping. I had already done their recommendations before they gave them to me. Everything they gave me was just common business 101! There is no brain child at CI to help franchisees, and for the millions they were making they could have put together a really great marketing team, knowing that Curves was a fad and that they would need to add to it to keep the flames going. NOPE they did not for see the economic turn down, but I know that they should have seen a drop in membership based on statistics for fad diets and workouts.

    CI would say the new flame was the curves smart, CI it was just too late, and to expensive for the so many clubs that were losing members left and right. However, they realized this quickly, it should have only taken a few months to see that projection sheets from smart clubs were not increasing memberships. They should have brainstormed and come up with a new concept. We should have a new gimmick every year to keep our member interested. No that can’t happen because you told us to rent such small places!

    I give my self some credit since I was 25 when I bought my club and did not know better. I had never dieted in my life. I did not know that there was a cycle of popularity for diets and exercise programs. I just researched current data on Curves, my mistake was that Curves was not old enough, and was hitting its best years. Along with no real data for women’s fitness altogether. You live you learn, However as a Christian myself, when it comes to a person who is buried financially and trying to avoid bankruptcy you don’t try too take them for any last penny the may have. Nope you don’t, because a Christian would know that they are also to blame for their “partners” for failing. That is why Jesus said “it is more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.” The reason for this is you can not serve two masters you can not serve money and God. Only one will rule your life and it is obviously to me which one Mr. Haven worships. One last thing I am still an open club, and should not have to shut down, however, in a year and a half I will not be renewing my club.

  419. Next step on February 11th, 2010 9:49 pm

    No matter where the cards fall, I know I am not the only passionate person on this site. I must say that I am sorry for all the grammatical errors in my previous post. I was too caught up in the topic and forgot to proof read.

  420. Wipedout on February 12th, 2010 4:18 am

    Another sad story that many of us can relate to.

    Chavez opened Curves in late 2003, celebrating six years this past December. “When we opened there were lines at every machine,” she said with tears in her eyes on Tuesday morning. “Today, we have about 70 members. Just not enough keep open.”

    http://www.cibolabeacon.com/articles/2010/02/11/news/doc4b7495965f201897823883.txt

  421. unhappy on February 16th, 2010 1:19 am

    Well Curves International has finally stopped charging the 10,000 dollar closing fee to owners who close as the word is finally out that it is quite possibly illegal, immoral and unethical for them to do so. If any of you owners paid that fee which was usually discounted to somewhere between 2500 and 3000 dollars you need to consult with an attorney at once. You have the right to demand the extortion money for closing back from Curves. They are now sending out a list of demands for owners who inform CI of their intent to close and using the so called mutual release as leverage to make all owners comply. But they won’t let owners who request a copy of the mutual release see it until the owners comply with Curves demands. It probably is similar to the old mutual release which prevents the owners from suing curves but allows curves to sue them. They are still sending out the over night letters from UPS which are called demand letters which state they are terminating your contract for abandonment and unless you pay all remaining franchise fees and advertising fees they will turn you over to CI’s legal department. It is just a change in their strategy but they still use intimidation tactics to force owners who have lost everything into paying them more money. I guess we can start calling Howie the lizard as he can change his color but his spots are easy to distinguish. Once a crook always a crook.

  422. nolongercurvesgal on February 17th, 2010 1:16 pm

    Hey Unhappy–
    On Jan. 14 you wrote: (quote) There has been an interesting development in the 24/7 clubs as of today but I am not in the liberty to explain what has happened as of yet but will keep you informed of what is happening on this in the next few weeks. I can tell you that Curves International is once again using underhanded and unethical tactics to try to prevent any more 24/7 clubs and to close the ones that are open. (unquote).

    Do you have anymore information on this development that you can share with us?

  423. unhappy 2 on February 17th, 2010 6:02 pm

    does anyone here know how many clubs are left?
    We are looking to sell ours are we keep dropping in members from 750 in 08 to 512 today and dropping.
    We cant compete with planet fitnes..it wont happen.

  424. unhappy on February 18th, 2010 8:49 pm

    To nolongercurvesgal,

    Yes There is new news on the 24/7 clubs. Three Curves owners in Ca have been sent actual letters of termination for operating a Curves 24/7 club. One of those was actually closed at the time it received the termination letter. The other two have both stated that if they had not gone 24/7 they would have had to close so by doing what is clearly not against any conditions set forth in the franchise agreement they have been unfairly punished. Actually the owners of both of these clubs have been thankful that CI has taken this action as they are now independent clubs and seem to be thriving at this time. In the franchise agreement the only thing mentioned about a clubs hours is that there is a minimum amount of hours that one can be open. As long as you conform to the minimum amount of hours CI has no right to dictate the number of hours you are open. Curves International has sent letters out to all three clubs telling them that they are in violation and unless they stop immediately that they will file cease and desist orders against them and sue them for a trade mark violation. The funny thing here is that CI would have to get the courts in Waco TX to agree with the cease and desist order but as both of the clubs are out of states the order would be worthless and non enforceable in most states. But the owners would have to hire a attorney to fight the cases if it gets to that. It is very doubtful that Curves would even consider a legal case knowing that all it would do is to cost the owners more money when they are hurting as bad as they already are without a chance of winning the case. Curves International has also stated that if you are a 24/7 club and try to sell they will not allow the sale to go through. Obviously CI would not use that as the excuse not to allow the club transfer but some other lame excuse. Curves is using the lame excuse that the 24/7 clubs are doing damage to its Brand. What a joke!!! Howie has already done so much damage to the Curves Brand that it is doubtful that any of the clubs will be open in a year or so.

  425. unhappy on February 18th, 2010 9:01 pm

    Unhappy 2

    No one other that Howie knows for sure how many clubs are left . Some feel aroud 5000 or so but I belive that the number is coloser to 4250 and shrinking fast. We do know that he has started to sell master franchise overseas which is a sign that the franchise is in real trouble. The over seas clubs are closing just as fast now as here in the states and with our economy outlook here in the states getting worse by the day with no forseeable change in sight it appears things are only going to get tougher for curves owners.

    Good luck on trying to sell as many owners are finding out that it is impossable to find a buyer even for a dollar and than to add insult to injury CI is now demanding a 5000 dollar trasfer fee. What a sick joke!!!!!

  426. guest on February 19th, 2010 9:26 am

    “We do know that he has started to sell master franchise overseas which is a sign that the franchise is in real trouble.”

    Why would that be a sign of trouble. Most franchisors expand internationally by selling master franchises in other countries. Master franchisees are better able to sell and support franchises in their own countries where they know the language, customs, have real estate connections, etc.

    I would say this is a sign of good judgement, not real trouble.

  427. guest on February 19th, 2010 10:40 am

    “As long as you conform to the minimum amount of hours CI has no right to dictate the number of hours you are open.”

    Sorry, guys, but franchisees don’t have the right to change the fundamental business concept. It’s the franchisor’s brand and trademark and they have the right (obligation, even) to police the usage of that trademark. If CI does not want the trademark to be diluted by franchisees who think they’ve got the right to change the concept to 24-hours with keycard access, they’ve got the right to do so.

    Do you think a McDonald’s franchisee can start selling watermelons out of a wagon in the parking lot just because he decides to? Or add Chinese food. Or add strippers… even if would boost or save their business?

    If you guys want a 24 hour club, buy a 24 hour fitness franchise. but you didn’t. You bought a Curves. And if you can’t make concept you decided to open in your town successful, then you chose the wrong concept. But who do franchisees think they are that they have the right to change someone else’s business concept?

    Any franchise company would terminate and sue for this and rightfully so. Take some accountability for your decisions, for heaven’s sake.

  428. unhappy 2 on February 19th, 2010 12:29 pm

    the franchise has been in real trouble for years now..
    this concept is mismanaged at the corporate level.
    it was a good product that was played with and damaged.

    curves international SHOULD go down in the history books of business as one of the poorest run and managed businesses in the history of business. Granted there are others as well, plenty of the, but howard really should be taken to court and convicted of fraud…

    I was told by robert lay that there is a story about ci in march or something that is supposed to expose ci..id be very interested ot see that if that is the case..

  429. unhappy 2 on February 19th, 2010 12:37 pm

    where did someone get the info that clubs in europe are now closing fast too?

    I hope, I REALLy hope this man looses EVERYTHING he has! Bernie Madoff did, why shouldnt howard heavin..they are both unethical crooks..only one may be smoother about it..

  430. Other Guest on February 19th, 2010 12:51 pm

    Guest, You are correct and seeing as they’ve been selling Curves master franchises overseas for YEARS – first one was Japan and that was over 5 years ago. That kind of upsets the rumor monger apple cart. Uh-oh!

  431. Other Guest on February 19th, 2010 1:01 pm

    “Take some accountability for your decisions, for heaven’s sake.” – HA!

    Personal responsibility is the FURTHEST thing from this guy’s mind. This joker thinks that Curves is the ONLY business that shouldn’t have any troubles during such crap times and the ONLY reason it is in trouble is because of Heavin. Of course it is, there’s NO other POSSIBLE reason that HE failed at business. Yes, yes, it’s all someone else’s fault. LOL

    Let the personal attacks begin!

  432. Next step on February 19th, 2010 1:16 pm

    to guest on

    “Do you think a McDonald’s franchisee can start selling watermelons out of a wagon in the parking lot just because he decides to? Or add Chinese food. Or add strippers… even if would boost or save their business?”

    I have been to McDonalds where there are waiters, a grand piano, and odd menu items. Their franchises are not being closed down by adding these things. If I am not mistaken most people love to visit the Manhattan McDonalds with the grand piano. The McDonalds that has the waiters was written about in USA Today six or seven years ago. This is of course not exactly what the Franchise had planed, but these places are not closed. Not everything is dictated by the franchisor. The food items vary by region, and by country. I don’t think anyone would go to some of your extremes.

    So let’s talk about this uniformity you speak of at Curves. Example, go in to a Curves in one town and visit another in the next town. The machines, clothing, and the name are the only things they have in common. The size, colors, open times, is water sold or free, stretching area and just everything else is all different. This company was not built on uniformity like Subway. CI let each person design their club, and operate their club with guidelines. We were given a phone script, and most clubs never followed it.

    You are a joke, and need to go back to where you came from. If you believe for one second that Curves has an image, then tell me what is that image? Wait I know clothing that fades as soon as you wash it and machines that are not the same in every club. Hours that change from town to town (I am not talking about 24/7 clubs). This is crazy! Lets just face it we were a fad and now it is over, with nothing new to give, women are leaving.

  433. unhappy on February 19th, 2010 1:16 pm

    That story which will be on a notional new program was scheduled to be released after the group action trail was over which was scheduled for March 21 but once again that trail has been put off until Aug of 2010. The program will be aired after the trail depending on the out come of the and if the litigants win which should be a sure thing as Zarco is the best.

    Also club insider a national fitness magazine has done an article on Curves as well exposing the fraud of Curves.

    Not only are the UK clubs closing but the clubs in Australia are closing also as the number of people who have requested advice oh what and how to handle the closures has picked up dramatically.

  434. guest on February 19th, 2010 3:47 pm

    “I have been to McDonalds where there are waiters, a grand piano, and odd menu items.”

    I guarantee you none of those things were added without prior submission and approval by McDonald’s Corp. There’s a big difference between calculated, approved variations and just letting franchisees run amock changing the concept anyway they please… letting the inmates run the asylum, so to say.

    You think McDonald’s would let franchisees install a keycard so customers could come in and self-serve themselves? Maybe… but if they did, it would be tested, refined and fully developed before franchisees would be allowed to try it.

    What about security issues of having women alone in your building at 4 am? You’ve really thought out all the safety and liability issues involved? 24/7 franchisees create liability issues for the franchisor without even researching or investigating.

    “Lets just face it we were a fad and now it is over, with nothing new to give, women are leaving.”

    So women don’t want to come to Curves… and your solution is allow them to come alone at 3:30 am? Wait… who’s the joke again?

    People like Next Step have already given up and just want someone to blame. Maybe you shouldn’t have invested your financial future into a fad concept… or joined a franchise with “no brand image.” Ever think of that?

  435. unhappy 2 on February 19th, 2010 4:17 pm

    to unhappy regarding the closing of clubs in the uk and australia..is this fact?
    not saying you are mistaken, just wondering if it is as bad abroad as it is in the us
    where did you get this info?

  436. unhappy 2 on February 19th, 2010 4:19 pm

    unhappy, regarding the article, where can i find a copy?

  437. unhappy on February 19th, 2010 4:22 pm

    Guest,
    What rock did you crawl out from under? One of the original founder of Curves now works for a fitness center similar to curves but is co-ed and is open 24/7 and is growing faster than curves ever did. Furthermore guest you don’t have enough information on what is going on with curves. It’s real funny that curves international doesn’t enforce the aspects of the franchise agreement that they should in order to help owners from other owners that have broken the rules causing unfair completion between curves clubs but tries to intimidate owners into not doing something that is obviously not against the franchise agreement and is helping owners. EVER THINK ABOUT THAT GUEST1111111111 I didn’t think so so act like a f— and blow in the wind.

  438. unhappy 2 on February 19th, 2010 4:37 pm

    you are right, he is now selling snap fitness franchises isnt he?

  439. unhappy 2 on February 19th, 2010 4:38 pm

    not only that they will run into the same problem as curves did..too many too close…
    the difference being snap fitness is much more of a fitness facility than curves ever was..

    there are already snap fitness clubs listed for sale because of the very reason that they are too close together..

  440. Other Guest on February 19th, 2010 5:07 pm

    “to unhappy regarding the closing of clubs in the uk and australia..is this fact?”

    Facts? Since when is ANY post here required to actually be based in fact? There are more “facts” in a half hour of Access Hollywood than on this entire blog! STOP being unreasonable!

  441. unhappy on February 19th, 2010 7:16 pm

    other guest
    Maybe just maybe you should quit watching Access Hollywood and tune in to Glen Beck. Oh I’m sorry that probably offended you because you voted for the man of change. Well how to you like it now, is that change good enough for you. That is the one thing that Howie has in common with the obama administration, the change that no one likes. Most of the stories on this blog are real stories about how owners have been and continue to be ripped off. It has gotten so bad that Curves International is trying to get owners who’s contract are coming up within the next 6 to 8 months to renew and now are offering a 2 year agreement and if you refuse they will come back and beg you to sign up for a 1 year term. If you still refuse that will as of today started to let owners go for a month to month contract. Now you will probably say that CI is so great for doing that but you are wrong. They are that desperate to keeps curves clubs going so they can get their dues and add fess that they are actually offering a month to month contract. I have received confirmation of that from an owner who whose contract isn’t up until late in the summer and Tammy Rose just sent her an e-mail offering her a month to month contract. That is sick and just shows how low Howie will stoop.

  442. unhappy on February 19th, 2010 7:18 pm

    unhappy 2 you can buy a subscription to club Insider on line and maybe able to read it there or possibly at the library.

  443. Other Guest on February 19th, 2010 8:27 pm

    LOL, you are even denser than I suspected. Clearly I was pointing out that something with as little redeeming value as Access Hollywood was more concerned with getting things accurate than you. But, just like Business 101, that slipped right by you.

    As to the rest of your rant. Say what? What does any of that garbage about Obama have to do with anything here? Well, other than it gives you yet ANOTHER person to blame for your failure. Thank you for continuing to prove the points of your critics here.

    Yes, yes, we’ll all find out when you go to court and win big. Wasn’t that supposed to happen last year? Oh wait, no, make that March, oh no now August. Funny how OTHER people knew and were able to post that before you! LOL

  444. Next step on February 19th, 2010 8:44 pm

    Guest On

    You really just suck. Either you are a new franchise with stars in your eyes, you work for corporate, or you just want to try to show you are better then us.

    As for myself I have not given up, but I do say that no matter how hard I did everything according to the Curves way. I failed. It is probably because I had no experience in fitness when I started, and that is my fault. The other reasons are my neighboring Curves clubs did nothing the Curves way. We are out here all on our own trying to stab each other in the back.

    I don’t know if the waiters at McDonalds were approved, but I do know that their franchise structure is a lot different then Curves. I really hate when people get on this site and compare foundation franchises to these little start ups. However, corporate visits there franchises regular. Guess what? No one has ever come to my club in the past 5 years. I was just a foolish girl when I bought my club with enough good credit to get myself in way to deep. Now after 5 years I still have not written myself a paycheck, and I know that I never will. I do hope that we stay open and make it through these “tough times” but really I never had any good times.

    As for the brand I really did think that Curves had something go for it, but after 5 years I see that it really doesn’t.

  445. Next step on February 19th, 2010 9:04 pm

    I know what it has going for it over sold franchise areas, no help from corporate and in my area no owner want to even talk to each other. It would be great if they would send me the money for transfers.

  446. guest on February 19th, 2010 11:26 pm

    “You really just suck.” – Next Step
    “act like a f— and blow in the wind.” – unhappy

    Classy, impressive group here.

    What, actually, do you people want? Are you actually fighting for some change or do you just like to complain & insult those who disagree with you?

    You bought into a fitness franchise which NS says is passe and yesterday’s fad. What can CI do to change that?

    Is it Blockbuster’s fault their concept became obsolete and their franchises are closing? Is it Blockbuster’s fault people aren’t renting videos?

    What is it “Howie” could do and how will it make your life better?

  447. unhappy on February 20th, 2010 12:14 am

    there is a lot that Howie could do such as spend our advertising money an ads instead of using it tp promote the sales of franchise over seas or to pay for his wife Diane who was never a part of curves but now is a founding member and Olivia Newton John to walk the wall in China. How about helping the club owners build revenue streams instead of building just revenue streams for Curves international. How about lowering the franchise and advertising fee instead of telling owners to ask for a reduction in rent. Lets see now how about not ripping the club owners off on wellness members or excessive charges for merchandise with the curves logo. How about answering the phones when a club has problem instead of just an answer machine and never getting back to the club. How about enforcing the contract and stopping neighborhood clubs from advertising in your protected territory. How about telling g the truth to the owners instead of telling lies like he has on why the clubs shouldn’t become 24/7. How about running your business with ethics, moral, integrity instead of the false promises and lies. How about selling the franchise before its too late and let a replicable CEO run the business. All of these would be start in the right direction but for heaven sakes don’t hold your breath for any of it to happen as a snake like Howie isn’t likely to change his corrupt ways.

  448. another curver on February 20th, 2010 1:59 am

    To the Guest who has been posting about general rules of franchise agreements and policies protecting franchisors’ brands:

    Curves International has used a variety of different contracts with franchisees over the past decade. I owned two different contracts. In both of my contracts I was given the express right to determine my own hours of operation as long as I maintained open hours to the public between 9 and 11 am and 3 and 7pm, on Mondays thru Fridays (with the exception of certain holidays on which I was allowed to be closed).

    I think all of us need to remember that most of the franchisees who are posting here are familiar with what Curves expected of us, and that our contractual obligations as franchisees were generally much more liberal than most other franchisees. To those who have not seen those types of Curves Contracts, they may be very surprised at the wide latitudes we were expressly given in our contracts. When I did my research, that was one of the thngs about this business that appealed to me. I wanted that freedom of entreprenuership, and Gary Heavin (aka Howie) used to promote that part of this franchise relationship.

    I would also like to remind all of us that we need to read the fine print. Curves International makes many broad demands that are in conflict with some of the contracts but not necessarily all of them. You can only protect yourself by reminding yourself what is in your contract.

    Good luck.

  449. another curver on February 20th, 2010 2:04 am

    btw
    ■unhappy on February 20th, 2010 12:14 am
    I COMPLETELLY agree with that post! (about what could be done to improve Curves)

    but not the post about Glenn Beck and Obama. Can we keep those politics off of this board?

  450. guest on February 20th, 2010 6:30 am

    “I was given the express right to determine my own hours of operation”
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but going 24/7 means that you are giving keycard access to members for after-hours use, correct? And I assume that you are not staffing the club 24/7? So it’s kind of like self-service exercise where a woman can come in at 3 am and exercise alone (unsupervised) or with a few others?

    Is unstaffed, unsupervised, self-service exercise part of the Curves concept? No? Then this isn’t an “hours” issue, is it?

    What about safety issues? Crime? What about AED (automated external defibrillators) laws? I’m sure you’ve researched and weighed the liability you’ll have if a member goes into cardiac arrest and no one is there to help.

    Maybe you’d all be better off just focusing on implementing the concept rather than reinventing your own version without adequate thought, experience or planning.

  451. guest on February 20th, 2010 6:49 am

    So here is what unhappy wants CI to do:
    - “spend our advertising money an ads”
    - “help the club owners build revenue streams”
    - “lower the franchise and advertising fee”
    - “not rip the club owners off on wellness members or excessive charges for merchandise”
    - “answer the phones when a club has problem”
    - “enforce the contract and stop neighborhood clubs from advertising in your protected territory.”
    - “tell the truth to the owners”
    - “run (CI) with ethics, moral, integrity”

    Here’s a question for you all. Let’s say CI does what unhappy wants: runs more ads, lowers their fees, answers the phone, keeps franchisees from poaching members, Keeps Olivia Newton John off the wall, tells the truth, etc.

    Will your clubs then be successful? Will women stop being bored going around in circles? Will unemployment drop and income rise? Will that stop you from getting undercut by Planet Fitness?

    Can CI really fix the problems that are killing owners, or is the franchisor just a convenient scapegoat for your problems.

  452. unhappy on February 21st, 2010 2:02 pm

    With Howie at the helm this business known as Curves is going down,, down, down as fast as the Titanic. He has proven over and over again that he is inept and is thought to be a sociopath by many owners..

  453. unhappy on February 21st, 2010 2:13 pm

    Well it is official all 24/7 clubs are receiving cease and desist letters from Howie and if they refuse their franchise contracts will be terminated. There are many clubs that have gone to 24/7 clubs in order to save their clubs from financial ruin. In most cases it has made the difference from having to close to being able to stay open but now they are all sure to close. Do they have any other choice but to become independent clubs? We will have to wait to see but it appears that is the most viable option for most of them. Another outstanding move by Howie and Diane that will surly bring down the house. What a bunch of ego nuts. Hey Howie why not write a book how to screw thousands of small business owners, you stupid stupid ass.

  454. Fitdude on February 22nd, 2010 11:32 am

    A few more bite the dust: http://www.wtrf.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=75417

  455. ADMIN on February 22nd, 2010 1:02 pm

    Thanks for the link, Fitdude

    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-5-west-virginia-curves-close-abruptly/

    Condolences to the WV Curves franchise owner as well as he members.

    This certainly isn’t going to help lower WV’s 31% obesity rate. Sad story all around.

  456. Next step on February 22nd, 2010 11:51 pm

    to guest

    You suck because you only see a narrow picture of reality. I am not sure why you are on this site or if you own a business. Here you can say anything you want but in my opinion you have never owned a business. You must work with corporate some how. I really doubt that you own a Curves, because I don’t know a owner of a Curves who would talk like you. None of us would defend corporate as much as you are. Not because we are upset at them, but we wouldn’t waste our time if we where happy with them. Think about it, if CI is ok in your book as an owner of a Curves you wouldn’t be on this site, but if you are I doubt you are going to pull out your franchise agreement and post responses like you have done, guest.

    As for Blockbuster’s, at least they really tried to fight the fact that their concept was dying. Go back and read my post about the advice I received from CI, and how it was apparent to me after a few months that curves smart was not going to help me keep members at my club.

    You are right about one thing I don’t think that CI is going to fix the company now. I will hope, because I still have a large note on my business. Women realized that working-out is no fun, losing weight is hard. I just had another member cancel today, because, “I am just bored with it and I didn’t lose weight.” I have seen post all of the web about negative comments from members who never lost weight at Curves. If this concept was so fantastic then we would still have the members we need. This whole company is nothing but lies, and it makes me want to cry that I am a part of it. The fact is we really need to do something new! Do more then just the circuit, or make the circuit work. I know that the smart system was to hit the 3 basic workout components on the level of intensity, but I think that we may have wanted to concentrate on more then just one component. Wait why not all of them and get the members results. Just a thought!

    I remember when I was 24 (just a few years ago) I worked in an office that I ran up and down stairs all day. Just one flight, but man after a few months I looked really good. Also after a few months I stopped losing weight. You know why? My body got use to the exercise. Sure I could have strapped on some ankle weights and keep losing and toning, but those only go so high. No matter what I was going to hit a fitness plateau. I don’t wish that I knew more about Curves problems when I bought this business. I wish I knew all about fitness, now I know a lot more but that doesn’t help me or my members. It is a franchise.

  457. unhappy on February 23rd, 2010 12:48 am

    Howie has really reached a new low by sending all 24/7 clubs a notice that if they don’t stop offering the 24/7 hours there franchise agreement will be terminated and CI will sue the owners for the remaining franchise and advertising fees even though CI is the one who terminated the contract and not because the clubs were failing and had to close. The 24/7 clubs changed in order to stay open and most were actually starting to recover and to grow their membership again. Once again Howie’s ego is forcing owners to close or go independent. How stupid can you be Howie and where the hell is Diane in all of this???? Come on Diane can’t you stand up for what is right and cut his you know what off to make him come back to reality. He has really gone over board this time and this business decision will effect all the clubs not just 24/7. What in the world can he be thinking?

  458. Next step on February 23rd, 2010 12:53 am

    How many 24/7′s are really out there?

  459. Wipedout on February 23rd, 2010 4:05 am

    For Curves to sue desperate franchisees struggling to stay afloat during these dark economic times in order to, among other things, pay CI monthly franchise fees is like Hitler ordering the execution of any Germans who retreated during the siege of Berlin. This is no time to wipe out those those still able to help you, Gary.

  460. guest on February 23rd, 2010 5:22 am

    Wipedout writes that “For Curves to sue desperate franchisees… is like Hitler ordering the execution of any Germans who retreated during the siege of Berlin.”

    Seriously? I don’t know whether to laugh or get sick. You people seriously equate your being held to a legal agreement that YOU signed to the coldblooded executions by the greatest mass murderer in history?

    Get over yourselves. Take responsibility. No one held a gun to your head and forced you to start a business, did they? No one forced you to buy a Curves or to sign the contract you now complain about. You came up with the idea because you thought you’d make a lot of money with the hot concept. If you did, the story would be all about how smart you are. Now that it’s cold, you want to blame others for your own decisions.

    Go ask a holocaust survivor if they weep for you because you’re now late with your Volvo payments.

  461. unhappy on February 23rd, 2010 11:15 am

    There are around 160 to 200 24/7 clubs that will be put out of business because of Howie’s current demands. Many are happy as they will switch to independent clubs.

    Hey guest you are already sick !!!!!

  462. Must be a Shill on February 23rd, 2010 1:40 pm

    It’s interesting, but not surprising, how every time anyone here points out how incompetent some of you obviously are or that you want to blame EVERYONE else for your failures – How dare ANYONE come HERE and tell you to take responsibility for yourself! Shame on you Guest(s)! – you a) start the personal attacks and b) accuse them of either working for Curves or being their shill, etc…

    So either you agree completely with the BS blame game and rumor mongering that goes on here or…what?

    Is there no other genuine possibility?

    When all your name calling and supercilious and blatantly false accusation don’t work to silence YOUR critics, what’s next? Go for broke? Take out the big guns? Make on last desperate attempt to discredit and say they are racist anti-Semitic child molesting homophobes that way you can simply dismiss the cold hard truths?

  463. unhappy on February 23rd, 2010 3:07 pm

    Name one curves owner who doesn’t feel that Howie is at fault for the demise of Curves. You can’t because the owners know the truth and everything posted on this site points to the same conclusion that Howie and Diane are both incompetent in management skills, unethical, have no integrity, and are crooks. Read the posts form the owners, look at the number of clubs that have been forced to close and the number of owners who have been devastated by Howie. Look at Howie’s past record of greed and court records and maybe you will see the light. He is not a christian in any since of the word never was and never will be.

  464. unhappy on February 23rd, 2010 3:12 pm

    24/7 clubs need to go after Howie and band together. You are much stronger as a group and for those who have chosen to continue as independent fitness clubs good luck and god bless everyone of you. It is in all likely hood the best thing that.could have happen at this time. think of all the money each month you will be saving in fees alone.

  465. Sharon on February 23rd, 2010 4:21 pm

    CI certainly could have done much more to help franchisees — anything in fact would have been welcomed. We had a luncheon several years ago with an AD. There were many unhappy franchisees looking for the AD and of course CI for guidance and some new ideas. She said “I only want to hear the positive, not the negative.” Well, that helped a lot. When one of the franchisees asked all the attendees who had made more money this year than last, not one hand went up. But once again, the AD repeated “I only want to hear the positive..l..”

  466. guest123 on February 23rd, 2010 5:28 pm

    I have a question about the mytrak equipment….

    What have people done with it after closing? Did you sell it and for how much? How did you sell it and to who? I have a set that I need to get rid of and would love to hear any suggestions or tips on what other people did.

    Thank you.
    :)

  467. unhappy on February 23rd, 2010 9:27 pm

    First off curves smart or my track doesn’t work and never did. It was sold to the franchisee under the pretense that it was a new concept that Howie had invented and that they would have national TV adds and would saturate the market. First off it was technology that was over 10 years old at that time and never worked originally and doesn’t work now. Secondly CI never ran national add like Howie promised to do when he sold it to the franchise owners.

    You maybe able to sell it to franchisee in your area if any are still open that don’t have curves smart but other than that there is no market for it. You can donate it to a community center and take a tax write off but since most owners have lost money they don’t need the write off. Other that that there isn’t much you can do with it. You can sign up for the yahoogroupscurvesowners site and list it there if you can still get on the site but you had better hurry as CI is going to be shutting that site down fairly soon after Heavin is done with the 24/7 terminations.

  468. nolongercurvesgal on February 24th, 2010 9:52 am

    A comment and a question–
    Don’t underestimate the 24/7 owners….they will NOT “go quietly into the night” (no pun intended) without a fight! Some very strong Curves leaders among those owners.

    And my question is How can CI shut down the Curves owners site on Yahoo? Can just anyone go in and shut down a group that they do not want on Yahoo? I would think that Yahoo is BIGGER than Heavin……

  469. Other Guest, or just Guest, I can't remember who was first on February 24th, 2010 10:24 am

    “And my question is How can CI shut down the Curves owners site on Yahoo? Can just anyone go in and shut down a group that they do not want on Yahoo?”

    They can’t of course. It’s just more of the normal embellishment and good old fashion rumor mongering on your fearless leader’s part.

    Normal mixture? 5% truth, 25% hyperbole, 30% unsubstantiated rumors (usually started by himself), and 40% outright lies with a sprinkle of name calling on top, in a feeble attempt to defame his critics.

  470. unhappy on February 24th, 2010 11:59 am

    To nolongercurvesgal,
    Curves would not be going after yahoo but the owner/moderator of that group which is a well known curves owner. First off one must consider all the statements that Howie has expressed concerning that site. He has repeatedly stated that it has not been approved by Curves International and that it is a group of whiners and trouble makers and should not be paid attention to by owners. He has stated this at several of the national conventions, club camps, and regional meetings. It has been a thorn in Howie’s side for a long time and he has vowed to put a stop to it on more than one occasion. It appears that his intent is to send a cease and desist letter to the owner/moderator of the site (a curves franchisee owner) by stating that the owner is violating # 6 Standards and Uniformity of Operation of the franchise agreement. It will probably be Howie contention that the yahoo group curves owners site is misleading owners by suggesting ideas made from other owners which violate the the approved methods of Curves International thus damaging the Curves brand or Curves Marks. While the owner/moderator has clearly stated a disclaimer on the site that some suggestions from owners may not be approved by Curves international it won’t be enough to stop Howie from threatening the owner with a termination of his contract and the possibility of a lawsuit by CI. If the owner/moderator doesn’t comply Howie will terminate the owners/moderators contract and file the suit. The problem here is that the owner/moderator in all likelihood does not have the funds to fight this in court and Howie knows that. The legal costs to defend oneself from this type of lawsuit can be very expensive between 60 and 80 thousand dollars. While the owner/moderator has a high probability of winning such a suit if it comes to that does he have the will and the deep pockets to fight it. In all likelihood the owner/moderator would not have the funds as he is a curves owner and we all know what a financial drain the clubs are at this point. This is the same tactics that Howie is using on the 24/7 clubs so for those that say this will never happen I have news for you. It is already in the works and while it may be several months away be assured it is in the pipe line of things to come from Curves International. Howie seems to be blaming everyone but himself for the down fall of Curves and is grasping at straws thinking this will stop the ship from going down. Many owners at this time feel that Howie is a sociopath and by his own actions they may just be right. But we have news for you Howie your boat has so many holes that it is going down, down, down., and your only hope of survival is to sell at this time. No one in their right mind likes you, trusts you, or wants to have anything to do with you. You have no integrity, morals, or ethics and you Howie have been caught in too many lies. It is time you take your final bow and exit stage left with what you have left and bury your head in the sand over all your misdeeds and mismanagement of what was and could have been the greatest woman’s fitness center in the history of health clubs. Instead of bragging about the million of woman’s Curves has helped you should be thinking about the millions of family members of owners who who have hurt and left in financial ruin.

  471. Guest 2 - The Reckoning! on February 24th, 2010 12:58 pm

    Do you even believe the crap you spew? Or do you just hope some will stick to the walls? First, if everything is as horrible as YOU claim for EVERYONE, wouldn’t getting out of his franchise agreement be a good thing? Second, to “shut down the site” they would have to make Yahoo! do it since all the “owner”, which is really a moderator (Yahoo! owns the site) of the site would have to do is cease moderating it or hand it over to someone else. And yeah, I’m sure Yahoo! will back down to Curves. Third, this is a first amendment issue and if the new moderator couldn’t find a local ambulance chaser to take it on – one call to the ACLU and they would LOVE to take on a case like this – especially since they already dislike Heavin over his personal abortion views.

    And you know what they say about people in glass houses right?:

    “Howie seems to be blaming everyone but himself for the down fall of Curves and is grasping at straws…”

    Something you have in common.

    “Many owners at this time feel that Howie is a sociopath and by his own actions they may just be right.”

    Like peas in a pod! BTW, pleas define “many”. I mean other than you and your handful of faithful, are you saying 10, 20, 100?

    “No one in their right mind likes you, trusts you, or wants to have anything to do with you. You have no integrity, morals, or ethics and you Howie have been caught in too many lies.”

    WOW! Thick as thieves you are, it’s a wonder that you two don’t get along better! It’s kinda creepy the similarities.

    You are right about one thing though, lawsuits can be expensive. Which is why you couldn’t do anything until you suckered a couple of hundred naive desperate people into plunking down $4,000 (that they could hardly afford) to join you on your crusade. Shameful.

  472. nolongercurvesgal on February 24th, 2010 2:28 pm

    unhappy–OK, I understand now how CI would go after the owner/moderator of the site. I know who he is and he had been quite critical of CI until recently…not sure what’s going on there. And I know G. Heavin always refers to the Yahoo group as the Crap Line. And as for the 24/7 group….I didn’t mean to imply that it would never happen….only that the 24/7 group would probably be happy if their franchises were taken away from them…..then they could go “independent” without franchise fees/ad fees, etc. But, of course, CI will have penalty costs, etc. and that’s where they aren’t going down without a fight!
    And BTW, unhappy, you seem to have knowledge of these things before it all comes out…..UMMMMM…..I suspect you have a “mole” at CI.
    And to you Just Guest/Other guest–I don’t think unhappy is spreading rumors. To much of what he/she says can be verified.

  473. Undecided on February 24th, 2010 3:32 pm

    Guess who just stepped down as owner/moderator of the Yahoo Curves Owners group!!!??? That didn’t take long, now did it.

  474. Just Guest on February 24th, 2010 5:49 pm

    “Guess who just stepped down as owner/moderator of the Yahoo Curves Owners group!!!???”

    And just as I said, it will simply be left without him, with others moderating it.

    “And to you Just Guest/Other guest–I don’t think unhappy is spreading rumors. To much of what he/she says can be verified.”

    Yes, that would fall into the 5% truth category though usually the 25% hyperbole category. Just like on program like Access Hollywood, SOMETIMES they get it right. That doesn’t make them exactly a reliable outlet for the “truth” now does it? As far as it being “shut down” that’d be in the 30% unsubstantiated rumors category. Ain’t gonna happen.

  475. Fitdude on February 24th, 2010 7:07 pm

    To Guest123,

    I may have someone who may be interested in your MyTrak equipment. Please provide your contact information to the Administrator on the “contact us” link at the top of the page and they will forward it to me.

  476. curves owner on February 24th, 2010 7:26 pm

    Everyone I think we should welcome “Howie” AKA Guest to this site. Here is where I will agree with you “Howie,” When I bought my franchise I knew I was buying an opportunity. And I did make money and I still stand by that CI just sold us an opportunity. I have always spent a lot on advertising because I did not feel it was CI’s responsibility to make my business successful. I know people feel different but I know what an advertising budget takes and they would be charging us a lot more if they did the advertising people wanted them to do. I don’t mind the small fees for wellness because I appreciate having the program. I don’t blame CI for the failure or success of my business because again I feel I was sold and opportunity. However this is where you are wrong and I know you are going to respond to this because you are “Howie” and you are never wrong……it is their management or should I say lack there of, of the brand that is leading to the demise. And I have no problem with that. If you want to run your company down the drain because of your ego that is your prerogative, hey you built it, but don’t you dare think you are going to take me with you. Times are changing and if you want to be stuck in a little bubble and think that the only things you say are what works for Curves, again I am ok with that, but don’t tell franchisees they can not be allowed to do what they need to do from going down on your sinking ship while your sitting there up on your high hoarse and have not ran a club your self in over 10 years.

    And I would just like to respond specifically to your post earlier guest AKA “Howie”:
    “What about safety issues? Crime? What about AED (automated external defibrillators) laws? I’m sure you’ve researched and weighed the liability you’ll have if a member goes into cardiac arrest and no one is there to help.”—-I have researched this and the people at Snap and Anytime have as well. The insurance company has researched it as well. If you would here is the number to Sports and Fitness 800-844-0536. Please call them and ask them what the difference in liability is for health clubs open 24/7 versus those that are open Curves hours. Please post your response from them. Also please talk to a landlord since you apparently do not run a club and ask them to call their insurance company and ask them if there are any changes in rates if a health club is 24/7 versus our hours since you think crime is such and issue. Again I think we would all really appreciate posting your findings.

  477. unhappy on February 24th, 2010 8:36 pm

    To nolongercurvesgal,

    Thank you for your kind words and don’t worry the critics don’t bother me at all as a few owners have their heads so far up Howie’s ass they can’t or refuse to admit the truth when it is right in front of their eyes.. If they would read the posts from the beginning of this site they would realize that the majority of what has been said on this site is the truth. From all the owners sad and disheartening stories of what they have gone through as a result of Howie’s mismanagement to the breaking news on the termination letters for abandonment after closing, the 10,000 dollar so called closing fee, the so called mutual release, the summons to go to court and how they are being served, and of course the recent news on the 24/7 clubs as well as Howie’s intent to shut down the yahoogroupscurvesowner site. The list goes on and on and all of it can be verified as well as the advice given to owners who have asked for it during their times of trouble with CI and Howie. For the truth to be told correctly the success of the yahoogroupscurvesowners site is directly related to me pushing owners to sign up on that site in order to get help in thinking out side the box to prevent them from having to close. Evidence of this can be seen with the tremendous growth of that site from a little over 800 members to now over 1900 members. That growth has taken place in the last 8 months since we have been suggesting to owners to join that site not only in previous posts on this site but to every owner who has personally called me for advice (at this time over 1575 and growing rapidly)) on how to handle CI intimidating tactics. As you mentioned, Howie refers to the yahoo site as a crap site and CI has been monitoring that site for a long time (as well as this one) and unfortunately people have to post their name and club location when posting on the yahoo site. The owners who have been out spoken about Howie and CI’s policies on that site should all be concerned as believe me when I tell you that Howie will be knocking on their doors very soon with his typical threats of termination using the # 6 of the franchise agreement and their damaging the curves brand or mark and influencing other owners to pursue policies not accepted by curves. As an example of this look at what Howie did to the owner who came up with the grocery coupons and how he destroyed that program that was helping many owners to get by in these hard economic times.

    Many of us on this site have certainly said a lot of things about Howie but I don’t ever recall us calling him stupid. Howie certainly wouldn’t go after yahoo to close the group site but anyone who takes over the moderator position at this time would have to be an idiot or have a desire to be involved in a huge lawsuit as it should be obvious to owners that Howie is determined to try to put a stop to it once and for all as he holds it responsible for one of the reasons for the downfall of curves. (The other being the owners) While it didn’t come as a surprise to me you must admit it is certainly a coincidence (if it’s true) that the owner/moderator of the Yahoo Curves owners group just stepped down. It would be interesting to find out why? I will say this to any owners who are posting on that site you had better be very careful as to what you say as it is being monitored by CI and it would be very advisory not to post your name and club location any more as Howie will retaliate against you for negative posts about him or Curves International so weather you believe it or not you have been warned.

    Now I will not deny or confirm how we get our inside information other than to tell you that we are in contact with many owners on a daily basis and have worked so far with over 1575 owners and that list is growing rapidly with all the closes that are taking place. The closings are not just here in America and Canada but world wide and the foreign clubs closings are picking up tremendously. In fact so many over seas clubs are closing that I have had to down load a program called Skype so that I can talk over the computer and not spend money using long distance phone lines.

  478. unhappy on February 24th, 2010 8:57 pm

    To guest 2
    We have been right on much more than one thing as you so simply stated and by many owners believe Howie is a sociopath we mean hundreds upon hundreds of owners who have had the unfortunate experience of not only meeting him personally at convention, club camp, and have seen his rants on the fire side chats believe Howie is a sociopath. Don’t just look it up in Webster’s dictionary but go to a psychological text book and read the characteristics and you will find he has all the personality traits associated with a sociopath personality.

    You obviously don’t know what you are talking about as the group action lawsuit was going long before I filed our 800,000 dollar lawsuit against Curves. While I have a list of over 978 owners who want to join the second wave of the group action lawsuit it won’t cost them or me a dime as the lawyers have agreed to take us on with no retainer depending on the first group action lawsuits outcome. So maybe you should either shut the hell up or at least get your facts right next time you moron. (oh I’m bad back to name calling but when the shoe fits you should ware it you dope)

  479. unhappy on February 24th, 2010 9:01 pm

    To Just guest
    You out to go back to watching Access Hollywood as you mind is nothing but mush.

  480. guest on February 24th, 2010 9:34 pm

    Just have to put my two cents in here-
    I for one do like CI and what they offer me. I am not a new owner so dont think I am wearing rose colored glasses, i have been doing this for several years and my club keeps growing and growing and growing with many of my members being with me for more that 5years of “going round and around circles”. They are not bored cuz we dont let them get that way. I have not lost ANY members for any reason other than death for better than 6 months. My club makes money- a good living and I am doing it “the Curves way”

    On another note- I happen to live in the state the Snap started in and can tell you they are starting to closed on a regular basis here. This state was the first and I believe the only state that Curves sold every single territory. Guess what Snap has even oversaturated what Curves did. They are in towns with less than 1000 people. I get 2-3 new members weekly that tried Snap and could not stand it for al, its dirty, it alone, its scary, I dont know what I am to do, its not personnal, etc…

    My point is a postive attitude will get you further than what you all have now.
    Also, why can you all grow up and accept responsiblity for the desisions you made. Its not CI fault, its yours. Quit trying to stomp on those that have succeded whare you failed.

  481. Just another Moron on February 25th, 2010 3:06 am

    So it was a different Robert Lay who SPAMMED every Curves owner he could in August ’08? My mistake. You should sue this douche bag then as he’s impersonating you and besmirching your, eh hem, “good” name. Let me ask, are your eyes naturally brown?

    Dear Curves Owners,
    We would like to thank all of the owners who have decided to join us in the group action lawsuit against Curves International and Gary Heavin. The amount or response has been overwhelming. We also want to inform all the other owners who are considering joining the lawsuit that they have until Monday September 15th to join the first group. Keep in mind that the Zarco law firm will accept payments over a 6 month period for the 4,000 dollar retainer.
    If you have any questions don’t hesitate to either e-mail me or call [withheld]. Robert Lay

  482. Undecided on February 25th, 2010 5:08 am

    Guest on 2/24–That’s great that you are running a successful Curves and making money. You are one of the very few who are at this time. And most all of these Curves owners that post on this site DID have a positive attitude at one time. And they have done it the Curves way and have been beaten down, lost their savings, their homes, etc. and did not receive any help from CI. If you like what CI offers you…..again that’s wonderful. But don’t “stomp on those” who have not gotten the support from CI that was promised when they bought their franchises. I, for one am happy, when a franchisee posts that they are succeeding….I certainly do not “try to stomp on them”. And I would think you would show just a little empathy to those who aren’t quite as lucky as you are. You obviously live in a state that has not been as effected economically as some of us. So just be thankful, and keep doing what you have been doing, but please, till you’ve walked in some of our shoes, don’t judge us!

  483. jd on February 25th, 2010 2:52 pm

    ‘So maybe you should either shut the hell up or at least get your facts right next time you moron. (oh I’m bad back to name calling but when the shoe fits you should ware it you dope)’

    So does the shoe fit for you too, since you didn’t know the facts of your own trial and that it got extended to August? The extension was filed 2 weeks before I ever mentioned it.

    The fact that you have over 978 Curves ready for a group action lawsuit on contingency really means little. Look at the Quizno’s class action that just got settled. Some of the ‘failed’ franchisees got a whopping $500. The attorneys got $10MM. If you are looking at a lawsuit based on contigency, expect that the lawyers will be the one making the most out of it.

  484. unhappy on February 25th, 2010 3:09 pm

    ATTENTION ALL CURVES OWNERS

    If you have paid or know of any owner who has paid all or any portion of the so called closing fee of 10,000 dollars you need to immediately request your money back from Curves International at once. Curves International has abandoned the practice of even asking for the closing fee as it a form of extortion and is illegal. If you have paid even a portion of that fee you are entitled to get your money back at once. If Howie had any integrity, honesty or ethical fiber he would refund the money that was extorted from owners without them having to ask for it. But don’t hold your breath as Howie certainly won’t refund the money unless you request it back.

  485. unhappy on February 25th, 2010 3:29 pm

    To JD

    Tell us JD do you have any knowledge of any group action or class action where the lawyers didn’t take the case on a contingency fee? We all would be happy to hear about it. Most cases on a contingency fee range anywhere from 30 to 40 percent of the total settlement so obviously the lawyers will make more than each single litigant but at least the owners will get some money which they wouldn’t recieve with out having a lawyer. Wouldn’t you rather look at a glass that is half full than empty? I’m sure most owners would for the wrongs that have been done by CI and Howie’s greed. Thank you very much!

    Oh and one more thing JD, I’ve talked to many of the owners of Quizno’s (just to clarify over 30) and all received much more than 500 dollars but regardless of the award the satisfaction of knowing that they won a settlement proving they were right was worth the trouble and anguish they went through all those years. For many of us owners it’s not just about money but unfortunately for Howie it is only about money.

  486. Alejandro on February 25th, 2010 4:57 pm

    Robert, thank you for sharing your story, we are closing our Curves today and the feeling is not good, we kept financing our business with a credit card for the past few months hoping that with the snowbirds coming and all the efforts on local advertising we are doing, pushing for Buddy referals will turn it around. It did not happen, not only that the Smart system never took off, there was no serious publicity from Curves International, we the Smart System arrived we change and renew the image of our club but our members did not want to pay extra for the system and weren’t interested in it. We are totally broke our home in risk of foreclosure and Curves wants me to pay past, present and future dues.
    Thanks for sharing every body

  487. ADMIN on February 25th, 2010 5:29 pm

    Alejandro:
    Very sorry to hear of your closing and financial challenges. Hang in there.

  488. unhappy on February 25th, 2010 5:37 pm

    Alejandro,
    We are so sorry to hear about your experience with Curves International and it is such a shame but keep in mind you are not alone. Hundreds of owners are in the same boat as you and your stories about the problems with Curves and Curves smart are felt in 95 % of the clubs. Lies and false promise from Howie is a common occurrence when dealing with CI. Good luck in the future and God Bless.

  489. unhappy on February 25th, 2010 7:04 pm

    Well I am happy today considering the fact that the new moderators of the old Yahoogroupscurvesowners site has taken the threat of legal action from CI serious enough to shout down the old site and to reopen up under the new name of owners-managers@yahoogroups.com. The following is email address and the home page location.

    The group email address:
    owners-managers@ yahoogroups. com

    The group home page location:
    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/owners- managers

    By doing so Curves International will not be able to go after the owner/moderators of the old site for trade mark or brand infringement but if they were smart they need to take it several more steps to prevent termination of some of the owners franchise agreement who have and still post on that site. One they need to stop having owners post their name and location of their club as it makes it too easy for Howie’s spies to label owners who post derogatory post about Howie and CI. They could also put rules on posts that no derogatory posts not even rants will be tolerated but that’s kind of silly and hard to enforce. Secondly they need to clear all archived files as I know for a fact that Howie is having an employee go through all posts and pulling out all that have been negative against Curves International and Howie as well as all posts that suggest going against Curves International policies. It will take the one person doing such days if not months to complete but those that are found will be market and if an owner is a consistent repeat offender they will be targeted, blackballed and listed for further legal action. Again CI will be using the Recitals number 6 of the franchise agreement which is the Standards and Uniformity of Operation and while it in all likely would not stand up in court the cost to defend oneself from such a legal battle would be somewhere between 30 and 60 thousand dollars. I don’t believe that any owner would have that type of funds available to spend on such a law suit. Of course many owners would be happy just to get out of their contract and would love the saving from no franchise or advertising fee and would end up being independent clubs. So in summation Curves owners be very careful when posting on the new site, keep it positive, and for heaven sakes don’t use your name or club address as the CI eyes and spies on watching every post you put on.

  490. jd on February 25th, 2010 7:43 pm

    Well, if you want to get the facts straight, maybe you should look at the Quizno’s settlement and maybe you should realize that someone is trying to block it, so the settlement hasn’t gone through yet, because they aren’t happy about it.

    Stores Sold not opened will get between 5 & 32.7% of their initial $25,000 fee, stores still open get $3,150 in food rebates over 3 years (meaning Q will increase the cost to the franchisees). Stores owners that transferred their interest get $475. Store owners that left the system get $1,700. The attorneys get $11MM.

    So, all in all, Quizno’s made out pretty well on this settlement. They got to keep a lot of money, that they really didn’t deserve. The same thing will happen with Curves (if you win), since ‘Howie’ owes the company and I’m sure he is distributing all of the excess cash out of the company, especially since he was dismissed as an individual defendant.

  491. Next step on February 25th, 2010 8:24 pm

    contingency fees in the state of Texas can be added to the settment amount. I hope that your suit is filed that way.

  492. unhappy on February 25th, 2010 8:42 pm

    Per franchise agreements the losing party in any lawsuit is liable for the lawyers fees but this clause is almost never enforced except in divorce cases. So it doesn’t do any good the theorize what may or may not happen or what type of settlement maybe reached or for that matter what the lawyer’s may get for all their hard work on owners behalf. I’m sure most of the owners will be happy for anything they get as at this point they are getting zilch. Besides with so much going on with Curves international at this time there are a lot of other more important considerations to discuss that can help Curves owners weather the storm. But thank you Next Step for your concern.

  493. Next step on February 25th, 2010 9:24 pm

    I am sure that you will be happy with what ever you get. I just wanted you to know that in Texas if you sue for 800,000 and the contingency percent is 40. Then the lawyer is supposed to sue for 1,120,000. That is the way it is supposed to work in Texas for contingency suits. The lawyer’s fee is supposed to be added to the settlement amount, not taken from the settlement amount.

  494. unhappy on February 25th, 2010 10:27 pm

    Thanks for the info next step have a nice evening.

  495. Curious on February 26th, 2010 3:00 am

    Yes, I’m sure all the owners involved will be THRILLED if Zarco makes millions and they see a few dollars. LOL, it astounds me that you actually believe what you say sometimes. Sure, we’re all about helping lawyers get rich! THAT is why these people plunked down $4K, to “teach that evil man a lesson (oh, and make Zarco some cash too).” Right? I’m sure they are all worried about Zarco lawyers being able to afford THEIR houses and car payments! Do you really believe that for even a second? Either you are full of crap and don’t, or you’re foolish. Either way, I feel sorry for these people who bought your line.

    I wonder, do YOU have the same award structure/conditions/agreement as everyone else in the lawsuit? Does the last person to join your merry band get the same award you do (if this actually does get anything)? As we know, the only way you could even get Zarco to work with you was to sucker these other poor folks into subsidizing your vendetta, but your disturbing comments have me wondering. You seem quite content in knowing that there’s a very high likelihood that even with a win, the majority of folks won’t see much out of this no matter what, so I have to think that YOU, as the initiator of the lawsuit, may just have a different deal going on with Zarco.

    You certainly didn’t want Next step continuing on with this topic. “doesn’t do any good the theorize what may or may not happen or what type of settlement maybe reached or for that matter what the lawyer’s may get” “Thanks for the info next step have a nice evening.” Hmmmm…. Sounds like “shut the hell up” to me.

  496. Wipedout on February 26th, 2010 3:32 am

    Guest, you are FREE to buy a Curves and show all of us “losers” here how it’s done. Go to McCord Business Brokers and pick up a club or two – some are selling for a BUCK – and turn them into money machines. PROVE to us all that it’s our rotten attitudes alone that led to our downfall. I DARE you.

    After all, you know better, right? And let us know your locations so we can monitor your progress!

  497. guest on February 26th, 2010 8:27 am

    “Guest, you are FREE to buy a Curves and show all of us “losers” here how it’s done. Go to McCord Business Brokers and pick up a club or two – some are selling for a BUCK – and turn them into money machines. PROVE to us all that it’s our rotten attitudes alone that led to our downfall. I DARE you.

    After all, you know better, right? And let us know your locations so we can monitor your progress!”

    Great idea! If it succeeds I can take credit and if it fails I can always blame the company, the founder and the former owners for my decision!

    Wipedout, you should go independent and 24/7 and rename your club Wipedout Fitness. When you are crazy successful everyone will see that it was Curves, Heavin and everyone else that was holding you and your friends back, not the economy, competition, boredom or your own inability to keep members coming back. We look forward to monitoring your progress.

  498. unhappy on February 26th, 2010 11:41 am

    It’s great to know that this site cause such a stir that we are getting shills for Howie posting and trying to discourage peoples hopes but they make it so obvious that its laughable. They can try to blame it on the economy, boredom or the owners but we all know the reasons and they have been posted in the discussion many times. I want to thank them as this morning because of there rant 7 more owners have joined the group for the second wave group action lawsuit. But lets not forget we need to get the word out to all owners who paid any portion of the 10,000 dollar closing fee to immediately request a refund from Howie as that practice is nothing but extortion getting money by using threats..

  499. unhappy on February 26th, 2010 11:44 am

    TO ALL OVER SEAS CLUBS HERE ARE THE SITES YOU NEED TO GO TO TO FILE COMPLAINTS AGAINST CURVES INTERNATIONAL AND HOWIE.

    http://www.bbb.org/

    http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c

    http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml

  500. NJNow on February 26th, 2010 1:13 pm

    I have been reading all the comments and other than the “flat earth” fool, there is real fear and sense of disappointment. I am closing my club this weekend and having a bash for all my members on Sunday. We can really use the chance to get together and blow off steam.

    Here is my situation. I notified Curves at the end of January, by email that I was closing. They emailed me their closing packet, including the demand for $10,000, which I ignored. I know they know I am closing and yet, I am still getting Leads! Are they sticking their heads in the sand? Do they think I’ll just change my mind? Has anyone else gone through this?

  501. unhappy on February 26th, 2010 1:26 pm

    To NJNow,

    There offices is Waco are so disorganized the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing. Just another example of Howie’s incompetency Wait tell you receive the termination letter for abandonment.. The whole process is so screwed up and Howie uses nothing but extortion to try to get more money from the owners. His cash cow is coming to an end.

    Have a good time at the bash on Sunday and believe me when I say there is life after curves but unfortunately your ordeal will continue for a while even after you close. Good luck in the future and remember to stress the importance of exercise to you members on Sunday. Have a good time our thoughts will be with you.

  502. Not Surprised on February 26th, 2010 1:44 pm

    Ah, there we go, the old reliable “we are getting shills for Howie”

    That’s right EVERYONE who disagrees with you is a shill, or a moron, or an ass, or a this or a that. Because if YOU couldn’t be successful NO ONE could be successful. They are all just liars and shills. You are just pissed that you held onto your club too long and couldn’t unload it before you ran it into the ground. (Hey SEC! I didn’t sell SOME of my stock in time, who should I sue?) Yes, you are all about “hope”. What hope? Hope that these marks will get as good a settlement as those poor Quizno’s folks? What is “obvious” is that you managed to get desperate folks to foot the bill for a lawsuit that YOU couldn’t afford to bring and that in the end they will mostly walk away with little to nothing. Worse, they are out another $4,000 on top of what they already lost. Then, if Zarco feels that there was a positive outcome (positive in that Zarco makes money, not that the owners do. Zarco is concerned with Zarco, if you believe otherwise you are a fool) Zarco will gladly bring your second lawsuit on a huge contingency basis because all the leg work has ALREADY been paid for by the poor schmucks how paid the $4,000! It’s a free second bite at the apple for Zarco! They are geniuses!

    And what will the second batch of owners see? Look to the Quizno’s for a pretty good idea, actually the piddly amount they got is far MORE than you will ever see. Their awards were based on their SUBSTANTIALLY larger investment and payments to the franchisor than we’ve had to pay (no court is going to award you for over paying for your club to a third party (Hey Remax, I didn’t sell my house for a profit, I’m gonna sue YOU because you sold it to me and I’m gonna sue the guy who owned it before me because he DID make money off his sale!)). Remember folks, in a “group suit” like this on not everyone is awarded the same amount even though you all PAID the same amount to join it.

    It was “obvious” a year and a half back when you SPAMMED us all with your e-mails looking for us to drop $4K into this scheme what the outcome would be and that you were looking for US to finance your vendetta. And since the vast majority of us (those you know call “the Curves shills”) have no interest in lining the pockets of lawyers so that YOU can feel justified in running your business into the ground, we told you to take a hike.

    Some desperate folks did fall for your scam. But that’s no different than anything else in history. Man many times people have aligned themselves with despicable people because they were desperate and looking for ANY straw to grasp. If that weren’t true, there’d be no cults and no dictators.

    What’s also “obvious” is that thanks to the internet, just as much as any other factor YOU have damaged the brand and the resale value of ALL these folks’ clubs. THAT is the power of the net folks. While that may make someone like you feel better about yourself, it really doesn’t do everyone else any good. 20 years ago someone as insignificant as you couldn’t have had such a detrimental impact on so many. But thanks to the internet and the butterfly effect, even a little bug can drastically effect the value of something for so many others. Wait a minute, that sounds like cause for legal action. YOU have caused a loss of potential value to my clubs! Of course, I might not be able to prove that in court, but what the heck, let’s give it a go. Also, having learned from you, I’m not foolish enough to put MY money on the line! Any suckers want to contribute $4,000 to see if we win $500!

    BTW, I’m sorry that many many of you overpaid for your clubs and can’t unload them now. But there is no legal recourse for YOUR failure to properly assess and value your purchase. (Hey Chevy, I paid too much for this used Impala. Yeah, I know, I should have checked the bluebook or at least looked at the internet, but I didn’t know any better. You bastards I’m gonna sue!)

  503. Next step on February 26th, 2010 3:23 pm

    to guest

    Great idea! If it succeeds I can take credit and if it fails I can always blame the company, the founder and the former owners for my decision!

    Wait I thought you said you did already own a successful club. By the way what state are you in? MN where snap is? How is the unemployment rate in your area. Do you have more members now then 2 years ago?

  504. unhappy on February 26th, 2010 4:54 pm

    to not surprised the shill or should I say Kenny with the Neapolitan complex

    If you knew anything you would certainly know that the owners in the second wave lawsuit won’t have to pay a dime for a retainer but of course you don’t know as your only concern is trying to stop the messenger. Your loss of potential value is the result of Howie and 99 percent of the owners feel the same. Just look at the yahoo group that just closed down I suppose under your logic we caused that too. What a shame. Go ahead and sell you crap to owners that care to listen as your argument is falling on deaf ears here and since you started to post we have a renewed upswing in owners joining the next wave. Aren’t you the one that has had several break-ends at your club and home? From what we have heard you did it for insurance and hopefully they will be filing charges against you very soon.

    You are of course welcome to post here but your not going to mislead or use false facts. Its a fact that that this business is failing because of the mismanagement of Howie. It’s a fact that the lawsuits are multiplying faster than rabbits, it’s a fact that CI is trying to close all 24/7 clubs, it’s a fact that the 10,000 dollar closing fee is nothing but Howie attempt to extort money from owners. It’s a fact that the curves smart never worked and was not new technology as it was sold to curves owners, it’s a fact that over 250 owners are in the group action lawsuit and that another 1115 have signed on for the second wave, it’s a fact that Howie has rewritten the history of curves and it’s a fact you are nothing but a shill for Howie. None of these facts can be disputed.

    You can make all the personal attacks you want but you can’t argue with the facts. Through out history the messenger has been attacked by people like you Several if my memory is correct were nailed on the cross so at least I can take comfort in the fact that I’m in good company and have helped hundreds upon hundreds of owners. How many have you helped. We all know on one you are trying to help need we say Howie. Two of a kind folks, in bed together and shortly to be in court.

  505. Kenny, Gary, Howie, Diane, Napoleon, John Wayne on February 26th, 2010 8:32 pm

    You can call me anything you want and whatever suits your fancy today. Kenny, Gary, Howie, Diane, Napoleon, John Wayne. Say that all your critics are either shills, ADs, Curves lawyers, or some other paid employee. Call us morons and idiots. Say we are unethical, immoral, dishonest. Blame the Heavins, Curves, Obama, the economy, bored people, bad plumbing. Next you will say it is all a plot by Gary Findlay! Whatever you’d like.

    Of course you are more interested in trying to attack your critics so that the message is ignored, but no one said that the second wave of people would pay anything. If your numbers are correct the first round of marks took care of that to the tune of $1,000,000. But even though it won’t cost the second wave anything, people keep bringing up that nasty little thorn in your side and point out that that the only people making anything on this will be the lawyers. That’s the first wave or second. Just like with Quizno’s but worse.

  506. unhappy on February 26th, 2010 11:01 pm

    lets see Howe has extorted 10,000 dollars from owners who had to close early. Your the man with the know so how many people paid that or a portion of that considering Howie would lower it down to around 3000 when they balked at the 10,000. How many clubs have closed so far. Let see according to Curves International advertising they had over ten thousand clubs now they have less than 4000 at best. So that would mean 6000 X 10,000 = 60,000,000.00 at the most and the least 6,000 X 3000 =18,000,000.00.00 Howie has extorted some where between those amounts by demanding a so called closing fee. And you are worried about the lawyers getting rich. You are the only one that seems to care about Howie and everyone here sees that . Oh by the way I’m glad you brought up Gary Findley since he sued Howie in a group action lawsuit for 20 million and collected. I suppose he has hurt your reputation also.

    Gee that closing fee will be our next group action lawsuit unless it is all refunded asap.

  507. Huh? on February 27th, 2010 3:43 pm

    “And you are worried about the lawyers getting rich.”

    Wow! You don’t think anyone should be concerned that the lawyers are going to get rich while the owners get poorer? Already they’ve gotten $1,000,000 from these desperate people. OF COURSE owners are concerned that the ONLY people benefiting from this are the lawyers. Because the flip side of that is the question of who is being DAMAGED, and it is NOT just the Heavins. Aren’t YOU worried about that? If your vendetta didn’t negatively effect the resale value for every owner out there, no one would give a crap.

    You believe that the old proverb “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” is an absolute. It isn’t. The Crips murder, rob, deal drugs, etc… – clearly bad “people”. Their sworn enemy are the Bloods who also murder, rob, deal drugs, etc… – and are equally bad “people”. Should the police be “friends” with the Bloods because they share a common enemy?

    Every time you dismiss ANYONE disagrees with you as a shill or corporate stooge defending Curves you then make two false assumptions. One is that since Curves has screwed a ton of people and you are Curves’ enemy that everyone screwed by Curves MUST be on your side. The other is that anyone who DOES NOT agree with you IS on Curves’ side. You can’t fathom that no one has to choose. Will you beat your wife or beat your kid? Does it have to be an either or? No, you can choose to not do either one. Likewise they can believe that Curves screwed the pooch AND that you are out on a self serving vendetta that will benefit no one but the lawyers. False hope is no hope at all.

    If you are successful, and other than a few faithful, no one really believe you will be, but if you are, what is left after you are done? Zarco’s coffers filled, your fellow litigants with pennies in their pockets and the rest of the owners? Russian Czars = bad. Their aftermath of their overthrow, better?

    In the meantime, Curves is wasting money defending against this garbage when they could be using it to benefit the owners. Especially those that are struggling.

    I’m not going to argue with you on your made up numbers. Curves has not collected closing fees from ALL those people. Not $10,000, not $3,000 and you damn well know it. So those are just made up numbers by you. Have some people paid it? Yes. But nowhere near the numbers or amount you are claiming. Your 6,000 closed number is pure guess and even then many of those simply didn’t renew and others didn’t pay a dime.

    What we do know is that YOU say that 250 people joined your lawsuit and paid Zarco $4,000 each. That’s $1,000,000 to Zarco already and based on recent awards very little if anything will come out of any verdict to the owners. Why would anyone in their right mind do this? Because a drowning man will grasp the blade of a sword and cut off his own fingers in the HOPE that he may be saved. You point to the bad that Curves has done to justify this. As if a lesser evil is not really evil. Curves has taken millions from owners, so your argument is that it’s then OK that Zarco take another million in the HOPES that some owners will get pennies on the dollar? You seem fine with that. I guess you and I have a different definition of “help”.

  508. unhappy on February 27th, 2010 8:07 pm

    Well so far today I have spoke to 5 more owners who disagree totally with you and have joined the second wave of lawsuits against curves all because of your rant. You see you can attack me all you want, you can disagree with how many clubs have closed and paid the closing fee as a result of the intimidation and extortion tactics used by curves but the majority of owners know what is happening and have personal experience with the unethical, immoral and illegal tactics used by Curves. It is hard not to see you as a stooge or plant from CI as not once have you even responded to the way that Curves has mismanaged the business or the concerns of the owners. Your only point you keep trying to raise is how much the lawyers are going to make and that for heaven sakes owners don’t sue as you will only get pennies on the dollar. Gee where have we as owners heard that before? Oh yes I remember now. Heavin has been spouting the same rhetoric at every meeting and fire side chat. ‘Another one of his and I’m sure yours is CI has not lost a single time in court . Hey guess what he is right so for as when they come up for trial CI quickly settles out of court and makes sure there is a confidentiality agreement signed so no one will know what CI settled for.

    Of course your not going to argue about how much Howie has extorted from owners because you can’t lie about the facts. Our facts are right and you know it. period so go ahead and spout off all you want about the lawsuit. 99 % of the owners who come to this board know the real truth about Howie and in reality so do you if you even own a club.

  509. Next step on February 28th, 2010 8:36 pm

    Right on unhappy, it is so obvious when a person doesn’t own a club and works for CI. I wish they would go away.

    Because I know that you “posers” are going to say that you own a club, or don’t work for CI. Then why are you here? What made you come to this site? The only people who come here are the ones that have the blinders off. So with that said you have to be a staff member of CI.

  510. unhappy on February 28th, 2010 9:06 pm

    Next step,
    Your are so right and thanks for your support. we will have some new breaking new about curves International and Howie latter this week and I don’t mind telling you it will be shocking. It has to do with all the excess costs CI has charged over the years such as when you sell a club and pay a transfer fee, or add someone on to your franchise agreement and pay a fee, and of course the closing fee which by the way owners Howie has gone back trying to charge owners by using threats and intimidation. Stay tuned as this maybe will be as big as the group action lawsuit.

  511. Wipedout on March 1st, 2010 12:31 am

    Why are you here, Guest? You get some kind of twisted pleasure out of reveling in the suffering of others? You remind me of those Baptist protesters who gather and shout insults at soldiers’ funerals.

    We’re here to share our stories of loss, and you’re here to criticize. Why?

  512. guest on March 1st, 2010 8:24 am

    Next Step, unhappy, Wiped Out:

    Just honestly answer this question: If your clubs were independent and you were free from CI’s restrictions & fees, how successful would they be right now?

    Would they be thriving fitness goldmines? Or would they be solid, stable and profitable, gaining enough members to cover those you lost each year?

    Or would they be losing members? Just scraping by?

    Or would they be struggling and losing money just like your Curves and all the other express fitness clubs?

    Can you honestly say your clubs would be teeming with members if you were out from under the evil influence of Curves and could run it however you wanted? Well…?

  513. NJNow on March 1st, 2010 10:40 am

    I just got off the phone with the Texas BBB. I was told that they wouldn’t take my complaint because it fell outside of their parameters, They view any fanchisee/franchisor dispute as an employee/employer situation! The only suggestion the man had was going to the Labor Board (800-832-9243). Has anyone else been confronted by this reaction?

  514. unhappy on March 1st, 2010 12:47 pm

    Guest

    There are many clubs that have gone independent and are doing much better than existing clubs under the Curves banner. How much has to do with not having to pay franchise and advertising fees I don’t know. Is it ethical? Each owner must make his own decision on that but the way they have been treated by CI I don’t blame them. There is board discussing that if you will look at CURVES: Can Indie Clubs Thrive Where Curves Failed? you may find a better answer to your question.

  515. unhappy on March 1st, 2010 12:50 pm

    NJNow,

    Never Have I ran across that an am very puzzled by their response I am tied up for the next 3 days but will check in to that by the end of the week..

  516. guest on March 1st, 2010 1:25 pm

    unhappy: Why don’t you answer the question? The question is about you and your club(s), specifically.

    Next Step? Wiped Out…? Awfully quiet all of a sudden…

  517. Closing my Curves on March 1st, 2010 2:02 pm

    I have read major of the message posted on this site. And I will have to say alot of them have hit home. I purchased a Curves in my area about a year and half ago. The person I purchased it from lied about everything. She didn’t tell me about all the fee’s that you needed to pay. And Curves really didn’t ask alot of questions they just wanted their money to transfer the business.

    I have spoke with someone on this site regarding all the stuff that Curves will try and have me do. I have decided I am not paying them a DIME and I will fight with everything I have to make sure they don’t get anything else from me.

    I know there are 4 other Curves owners in my area that are not sure what to do. I told them how can you keep going when you know your losing more money everyday.

    Thanks for letting me vent
    Dee

  518. Setting the Record Straight on March 1st, 2010 5:22 pm

    Guest, I will be joining the second lawsuit, not because I enjoy lawsuits or expect to get even pennies on all the dollars I’ve given to Curves International. If CI had not sent me a demand letter for an exhorbitant amount of “future” royalties and ad fees, I would have just licked my wounds and gone away. But this demand has backed me into a corner, so I’m coming out fighting. What the lawyers make from this is irrelevant to me.

  519. Guest on March 1st, 2010 7:41 pm

    Record,
    “What the lawyers make from this is irrelevant to me.”

    But the damage done to the REST of the Curves out there IS relevant to every one of us who is still in business. If there was any reasonable chance that the owners involved in the suit would see significant rewards that might be different. But there isn’t. So all that is happening is that lawyers are getting richer and the value of open profitable clubs is getting reduced even more. Contrary to the claims that the so called shills are posting their SUPPORT for Curves, I look around and I don’t see ANY of that. I don’t see anyone posting how great or wonderful the Heavins or Curves Corperate are at all. But them being crap doesn’t make this harmless to us.

    On the surface Don Quixote seems pretty harmless too. Well, to everyone except the OWNER of the windmills he attacked! In this case the enemy may be real, but it’s the collateral damage is real too. For anyone to tell us that WE shouldn’t be concerned with how this effects OUR businesses is as bad as CI. At this point the action will go forward, no one doubts that. Curves will have to see this one through to the bitter end to prevent the follow up from Zarco. So anyone hoping for a settlement is not going to be happy. This will go to trial because Curves can’t afford it not to. In the meantime those of us still in business need to protect our investment.

    That is the answer those questions over the weekend wondering why any of us are here that DON’T support this lawsuit. You may not be concerned with what is relevant to those of us who are still opened, but WE are and this suit is NOT helping anyone except the lawyers. For the rest of us it’s actually hurting the value of our businesses with no hope of a reward to those involved.

  520. unhappy on March 1st, 2010 9:07 pm

    Guest

    I did answer you question. Independent clubs that were once Curves are doing better and even curves clubs that have gone rogue are doing better than most clubs. Most 24/7 clubs are doing better now than than when they weren’t 24/7 and have been able to keep their doors open by expanding the hours which CI now says is against the franchise agreement. Most owners believe that it is not against the agreement and may take the termination issue to court. Others are happy to be away from the Curves banner.

  521. Next step on March 1st, 2010 9:37 pm

    Sorry Guest Mondays are busy for me still. With that said I will make this point very clear. The economy down turn did not make me lose money. Nope I have lost money from the day I purchased into this franchise. Also I am not the only one. Out of the nine owners in my area, I speak with three regularly, and each of them have lost money on the business. Some of the other opened their clubs, so they do good enough. It was the resale’s that really got hit hard with these franchises in my area. Right now is harder then other times, but I have never been able to write myself a pay check. Almost 5 years now.

    One may ask why I am still in it. The fact is that even though I can not pay myself the business does cover my loan payment. The day that changes is the day I close my doors.

    Do I think that I will be more profitable without the curves name? I think that CI has killed the workout. It is bad management from the top to the bottom. The top being bad advertisement (WW commercials), allowing owners bad business practices, oversold areas, to people like me that had no fitness or business experience.

    It is really silly to think that you don’t need experience to run a business. That some one is going to give you all the answers that you need. Well, that was not the truth CI did not equipped me with everything I needed to know from day one to operate this business. You know what, it is not possible to teach in 3 weeks all the things you need to know about business, nutrition, or kinesiology. Yes, I know we were to read about the nutrition and kinesiology prior to the class, but even still noting beats formal education or experience. But the selling point to this club is 30 minute workout, and anyone can do it or run one. Yep anyone can run one, but that doesn’t mean we will run it good.

    I don’t know if I would have been profitable without Curves, but without their pitch, I never would have opened a fitness center. Why, because I had never workout or went on a diet until I purchased curves. Yes my fault. I know I have heard it a thousand times, “If it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is.”

    Do you think that I don’t beat myself up over the fact that I am an idiot, that I work for nothing. I am soooo sorry that some time I feel the need to complain on this site, and read that I am not the only one going through this crap. I know that you don’t care you have an ulterior motive and that is why you are here. By the way at if you even own a club how many women reach their goal weight. (I know you are not going to answer that, because you have still failed to answer any questions I have asked you.) You know what I am not afraid to answer! Why because I don’t need to lie.

    Failing and lying and business experience, You know what, that might just be why Gary failed in the first place, but he had experience. He learned instead of failing himself, he could have other do it for him.

    No matter how mad I may be it is absolutly my fault for failing, no for purchasing this place in the first place. That is why for the past 4 years when someone calls and says I want to purchase a club, and ask my opinion I say, “If it was doing good they would not want to sell” RUN

  522. Next step on March 1st, 2010 9:42 pm

    I see one thing and Guest I am going to bet u too it.

    When I said “Yep anyone can run one, but that doesn’t mean we will run it good.”

    I know how to run a business, I even know how to do all the IRS forms. I pay nothing to advertise my business, and can get plenty of members in a month. I failed because I did not know how to get the members the results they wanted. I know what it will take, but that will violate my franchise agreement. Yes I can do the weight management class, and keep them working out, but the diet is hard to follow, and people get tired of the workout.

  523. Next step on March 1st, 2010 9:47 pm

    unhappy what do you mean

    “have gone rogue “

  524. unhappy on March 1st, 2010 10:28 pm

    By rogue I mean doing things that are defiantly against your franchise agreement just to keep your doors open. Unfortunately many owner who are still open did just that from the beginning. One prime example of that is in the metro areas where some owners opened on their boarders instead of the middle of their territories. From 1995 until late 2003 Curves prevented this from happening but once the top management was fired Howie didn’t care where they opened and allowed this practice. If the adjoining territories club complained, which many did it feel on deaf ears at corporate. If the neighbor club advertised in your protected area and you complained again it fell on deaf ears and nothing was ever done to stop the practice even though it was a violation of your franchise agreement. In many cases this allowed unfair competition between clubs and again was a direct result of mismanagement from the top of CI.

  525. unhappy on March 1st, 2010 10:34 pm

    Next Step,

    Don’t be too hard on your self. It sounds as if you are one of the owners who is trying and putting in one hundred percent! Without the help from corporate it is hard for any franchise to be successful. Our thoughts will be with you and you will be added to our prayer list. Good Luck and keep your chin held high as you have help many women in your community live stronger and better lives.

  526. guest on March 1st, 2010 11:02 pm

    Next Step: Thanks for your thorough & frank answer.

    unhappy: You still dodge the question, which is not about other clubs, but asks specifically whether you think your clubs (YOUR clubs) would be thriving, breaking even or failing if you had operated them independently without the restrictions and fees of Curves. You want to blame the founder for your misfortune but isn’t the truth that you gambled on the longevity of 30 minute women’s fitness – just like CI did – and lost? Maybe CI sucks but can you really say you’d be thriving without them?

    (FYI I’m not the only one posting as “guest”)

  527. Setting the Record Straight on March 1st, 2010 11:17 pm

    “But the damage done to the REST of the Curves out there IS relevant to every one of us who is still in business.”

    Then tell your friends at CI to call off the dogs. Many of us would just like to get on with our lives. But attempting to extort failure fees and future royalties after we’ve already lost so much is simply cruel, even if those fees were in our franchise agreements — per my lawyer, they are not in mine.

    You sound frantic, fearful, and desperate that your club might have to close at some point. When you get those demand letters from CI, what will you do? This is just for you to think about — no response necessary.

  528. Next step on March 1st, 2010 11:31 pm

    Someone has already mentioned Maddoff on this site once,

    I have been looking at my children sleeping, as I sat here thinking about how this club has consumed my life. How my children have suffered. My marriage has suffred. How my only options are to try to make it work or file bankruptcy. We don’t have a nice home, we need our credit. My eyes fill with tears, and I think how did it go so wrong. It hit me I understand the connection between the two. It is in times are hardship the companies with strong infrastructure, good management, business acuity, they make it. Not companies that are held together with strings where the ideas of 10 years ago were good, but not enough to hold it together now. Where the greed of the corporation has ran wild (smart and over saturating), and the allowance of resale’s at prices that were not justified.

    This was their business model! They knew I was paying too much for this place. They did not call and say, “Hey seller you are overstate the value of this club based upon projection sheets. We won’t let you rip someone off. Come down on your price or don’t sell” Nope they didn’t do anything of the sort. I paid the ridicules amount. I did not know how easy it was to falsify the documents. But CI they new the truth. They had the reports.

    I don’t want to hear about stronger together. I want to tell them to go **** themselves, because not even from day one were they here to help me. Nope! They were the ones with the experience and they did not say hey wait Next Step this price is wrong. They just took their money and went on their happy little way. Yep they are like Maddoff in that regard. The sad part is they could have helped me out and still received their money. They could have protected their business. How many would still be open if the bought a club that was not inflated?

    No Curves is not a ponzi scheme, but when times get tough it is easy to see this fraud. I have just been living it for the past 4 years. I want it to be over, and I don’t know how to make it stop. I want earn a living and help people. I don’t want to rip anyone off.

    My heart hurts.

  529. curves owner on March 2nd, 2010 3:35 pm

    I have been thinking a lot about your post guest and many of the other posts I have read:

    I wanted to comment on what you said earlier: ”Just honestly answer this question: If your clubs were independent and you were free from CI’s restrictions & fees, how successful would they be right now?”

    Just to give you a little background in talking with other clubs we may be one of the few profitable clubs left in the system. However if you broke down how much my business partner and I work to how much we make we will probably be making more flipping burgers (however most small business owners work just as much –I grew up in a family who always owned a small business but I do have to say my parents were paid a lot more then I am for the hours I put in). It has taken considerable time away from my family and the stress…well I don’t even want to think about the years I have shaved off my life however I don’t blaim that on Curves (I do partially for their missmanagement of the brand but I am willing to take the blame for some in that I knew what I was getting into…. 80% of small businesses fail so that is a gamble I knew I was taking)

    Unfortunatley, a lot of people Curves sold clubs to did not realize this and in my personal opinion Curves should have better veted their franchisees and that would have helped some but their infrastructure would need a major over haul for them to remain viable and they would need to work on the idea of integrity. I remember going to club camp and there was a lady there talking about leaving her buisness to her children when she gets older and I could remember thinking to myself that while it was a great concept I did not think it would be around that long.

    I can say our area was “lucky” and we were not cannibalized. However despite that I know most of the owners in our area and I can honestly say many of them are struggling right now. I believe that I can only speak for my club and my area and realize every situation is different.

    Here is what I can say, in the beginning I would not have been better off without CI. Even now I can say I don’t know (AT THIS EXACT POINT IN TIME) if I would be better off with out CI. But I can honestly say this, that if the company does not realize that times are changing and that for a company to stay on top they need to be able to change and adapt to today’s market and not hang onto outdated practices and conduct business ethically then yes in the immediate future, I will be much better off and much more profitable without CI.

    The problem with franchises and this is a problem with A LOT of franchises not just Curves is they no longer have people in the clubs knowing what it takes to run a club. Think about it… what makes a great manager or owner? They are willing to do the things their employees do, scrub the toilets and do all the things that the staff does and you get staff that is willing to follow you anywhere because they realize you talk the talk and back it up by walking the walk. Curves stopped talking the talk and walking the walk along time ago. Yes Gary donated his personal money for advertising and they have done some other things but that does not make them know what it still takes to run and operate a club.

    As I said earlier Curves sold franchises to people they should not have been sold franchises to, people who did not have business sense. Is there an ethical issue with that? I think so but it’s not my conscious that was selling the franchises and people can argue the other way I am sure. Nowadays if you feel you are denied an opportunity, you can sue so I don’t know if there is making everyone happy. The big reason the housing market is in the state it is in is because the government felt it was not fair to deny an opportunity to everyone even if they could not afford their mortgage….. hence our economy right now. If you were trying to sell your house and the government came and told you that you could only sell it for x amount because that is what they thought it was worth, there would be uproar. If Curves stepped in and told franchisees that they could not re-sell their clubs over a certain amount everyone would have gone crazy. The economy was FANTASTIC, how many of you paid more for your house than what it’s worth now?? So I don’t know if it is fair to blaim that on them. Now as far as selling areas that were not viable and charging all their fees that is a whole nother cup of tea.

    I realize I have not walked in the shoes of either party although from the ACTIONS of CI I will say that I have more faith in the integrity of the franchisees in our system and those who have closed then I do in CI.

    This comment is for whichever guest posted earlier… unless you are part of Curves International or you are one of these clubs that have closed or are dealing with Curves trying to take you down because you have converted your club to 24/7 or extended hours I don’t think you can give a fair assessment because you don’t have all the facts so you don’t know what size the shoe really is because you have not tried it on.

    Again all of this is just my opinion…..

  530. Next step on March 2nd, 2010 4:16 pm

    Curves owner,

    I understand a lot of what you said it the truth. I do know that I really had the ability to run a business, but I went out of my league with a fitness center, since I had no experience in that area.

    I do want to say I don’t think that CI should have capped the amount a business should have been sold for. However, When I purchased my club all the books showed an extra 150 check draft members. This was not the case, but CI new how much money the club was projecting.

    My struggle with this company started the day I unlocked the door. I know that others will say that it is all my fault, and I take 99% of the responsibility for purchasing a company at an overstated amount. However when I sent the forms into curves I stated that there was 325 CD members and projection sheets should have had it around 175. They had that information. They could have told me that something was not quite right.

    As for the question would I be better off now without CI. I think so! These last years I have dedicated my time to obtaining the exercise knowledge that I needed to make my club work. That is the path that lead me to realize if CI doesn’t change some of this program we are all doomed. It is not the economy. By the way my club has been open for 13 years now. The landlord told me since 03 we have had problems paying the rent.

  531. Breaking News on March 2nd, 2010 6:44 pm

    Weight Watchers Gets Ad Injunction Vs. Curves

    The battle of the bulge is getting increasingly litigious.

    Weight Watchers International, Inc. today announced that the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York has issued a preliminary injunction restraining Curves International, Inc. from airing or otherwise disseminating Curves’ commercial called “Something New.”

    The court order is a “stipulated” preliminary injunction, meaning the two parties stipulated their agreement to it, a Weight Watchers PR agency spokesperson tells Marketing Daily.

    The injunction bars Curves International Inc. and its franchisees from “airing, broadcasting, publishing or disseminating” in the U.S. the commercial titled “Something New” in “any form or in any version or in any medium” (including but not limited to television, cable television, print and the Internet) “during the pendency of this action.” A next court date in the suit has not yet been set, according to the Weight Watchers spokesperson.

    The court action, dated March 1, comes out of a suit originally filed by Weight Watchers in Manhattan federal court last October, charging the international fitness chain Curves with false advertising, trademark infringement and other causes of action. The principal charge was that Curves “used the Weight Watchers trademarks to garner consumer attention and divert consumers to purchase Curves’ services as part of a ‘bait and switch’ advertising tactic,” according to the Weight Watchers release.

    Last September, Curves launched a campaign promoting itself as both a diet and fitness solution, highlighting its new 30-day diet plan. The “Something New” commercial, run on national cable TV networks, shows a woman who is heading toward a Weight Watchers location being intercepted by a van full of women who instead transport her to a nearby Curves location, where she is informed about the new diet plan and shown signing up for Curves. The message conveyed by the interceptors: “Weight Watchers? Oh, no, girl, you’re going to try something new.”

    The campaign, which marked the first time Curves had taken a head-to-head approach against a competitor in its advertising, also included online, radio and print components, Adweek reported last September.

    At filing time, Curves International had not yet responded to Marketing Daily’s request for comment on the stipulated preliminary injunction.

  532. Closing my Club on March 3rd, 2010 4:39 pm

    I have decide to close my club April 1st we can no longer afford to keep it running. Now I am working with a rep from curves. And they are requesting that I return my Curves Smart, they stated that I can not sell it. As far as I am concerned I purchased this from Mytrak. Has anyone else had this request and what did you do? I am not going to destroy my equipment or give it away either.

    I am working with Curves so that they know that I am closing my Curves but I am very cautions as to what paperwork I will sign and information I will give them.

    Thanks Dee

    If anyone can give me a little insight as to what they did I would be more than greatful.

  533. Next step on March 3rd, 2010 9:53 pm

    First I am sorry to hear that you are closing, and I am personally counting down the days until my contract ends. I talked with mytrak a few weeks ago, and the only clubs that can have the system is curves. MyTrak will not licenses it’s use for any other club. Co ed or not. I talked to several people at mytrak to verify this. Which I think sucks because we paid so much for the system. As for the equipment I am not sure if you have to destroy it or not, but I talk to gofig today and they said owners are not destroying their equipment. My advice is talk to a unhappy about it. If you look at previous post you will find an email address. Send unhappy your number and a name. I think you will get all the answers you need. Good luck with everything and I agree about signing anything from CI.

  534. Next step on March 3rd, 2010 9:55 pm

    here is the email address: unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com

  535. unhappy on March 3rd, 2010 11:01 pm

    Dee,
    I am sorry to hear about your situation and your closing. Do not send any files to CI such as current or archive members and do not sign anything until you either send an email to Sean address unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com requesting he forward it to me with your phone number and I will contact asap or talk to a lawyer.

  536. Wipedout on March 4th, 2010 2:07 am

    Guest, our club was going great guns until Curves announced they were opening a territory to our west. We bought it to keep our members who lived there from leaving. Had CI left that territory empty, we’d likely still be open today.

    Now both clubs are gone, as is our house and most of our next egg. Oversaturation destroyed us. Curves was even talking about opening ANOTHER territory to the west of that OTHER club until they saw our clubs go under. 10,000 Curves? INSANE!

  537. Closing my Club on March 4th, 2010 10:14 am

    unhappy,

    I spoke with you last friday regarding my closing. And I want to thank you for the information you gave me it was very helpful and as per our conversation I refuse to give Curves any of my members name and information. I have also passed on your information to another club that is in worse shape than mine. I am hoping she will contact you. We live in Iowa and we have spoken to our lawyer but there is only so much a lawyer in our state that we can do. Our choices are pay curves or file bankruptcy well I really don’t want to do either. here is my email address- [redacted]

    Next Step,

    Reading your post I had the same issue when I purchased my club I had so few members I wasn’t sure how I could make it. It made me mad knowning that a person could sale a business that was in the red. CI had to of known that this club was not doing so well.
    Did you close a club and if so what did you do with your equipment? From your above post it looks like you are still in business.

    The one thing I will miss is my members they are wonderful people. Thank goodness I am good friend with the club closest to me that is where I am transfering most of my members. I really feel that Curves was a good idea at one time but business must change with the times and ask people what they want out of a workout.

    I was just trying to figure out if anyone else sent their Curves Smart back to Curves. I am thankful that I did not purchase the upgrade when I purchased this Curves it already had it installed.

    Thanks Dee

  538. unhappy 2 on March 4th, 2010 11:29 am

    wipedout,
    ci tried to do the same thing to us.. only they didnt.

  539. Next step on March 4th, 2010 12:37 pm

    Closing my Club,

    Yes I am hanging in here. I talked with two new owners in my area, and they are desperate in trying to make their clubs profitable. I said good luck, and gave them all the tips I had. I know the town one of them is in has had a slow decline in membership since 05. The club was wonderful, but I think the longer our workout is in the town the less interesting it is to our town’s people.

    As for when I will close. I am holding on until I renew. If I can. It looks like this year is going to be hard, but I have to make it. I need my credit; I don’t want to file bankruptcy. I am very tempted to convert to a 24/7 gym and let CI know, so they can close me down, but I am sure they would sue me anyway. I have 14 months left, and then I will be running away!

    People can say what they want, but the down turn did not do Curves in, we were on the road to failure years ago. CI doesn’t want to change anything, and since they would not the clubs are dying. Remember my club has been open since 97’. When I look back at the membership files from then to now, there is a steady decrease in membership after 03’. We lost half of our members, and now we just manage to keep a certain level of members.

    This reminds me of the 07 regional meetings or convention, I can’t remember which. Where Gary said that some clubs where going to fail, and they (CI) was going to let them. OK so we are failing, and why do you find the need to crush them! I am sorry you are a bastard. Let the people who failed move on with their lives. My members are appalled at Gary’s behavior. I have not kept it a secrete, since so many members want to know what happened to the clubs where they visit often. I have already began letting my older members know I might be closing next spring. No way am I reselling this money pit! And I am not taking any more prepays starting in May.

    My members are really trying to keep my sprits up, but I also want them to know that now is a time to save money and I understand. However, make Curves you last cut or I may have to close down now. They are working for me to get more members, so they don’t lose their club. The fact is that I have always been about 52 members off from break even. My new sales have off set the expense. Those sales are not there right now. No matter how hard they try we are still not gaining in memberships.

  540. Closing my Club on March 4th, 2010 6:49 pm

    Next Step

    What you said about Gary is what I heard from one of the other curves owners that has been around since 03. Wouldn’t you think that you would want to see your business successed (meaning all the curves, without our clubs he has no money) I guess he doesn’t realize that if we fail that means that he has failed as well. I guess he isn’t seeing it that way.

    If I could have done the 24/7 I think I would have done it. You know it would hurt to try.

    Good Luck with your club. I really hope you are able to keep it open. With the way things are going it hard to know from day to day what will happen.

  541. Next step on March 5th, 2010 12:14 am

    I also remember him saying on the stage that some areas were oversold. I really want to say it was regional 07. I was at the one he was. I remember that he talked about the lawsuit that someone from the east coast had filed, and showed a picture of a witch on the big screen. I still had my blinders on at this point. I kept thinking if I could just do a little better it will turn around. Eight months later I go the smart, and another 6 months the blinders were off. I knew that no matter what I did this company was never going to turn around.

  542. Closing my Club on March 5th, 2010 8:10 am

    I think they thought that they could just keep selling and selling and it won’t hurt anyone. Getting greedy like a lot of business do.

    Something interesting— I was told by a rep at CI that I would have to return my Curves Smart II once I close so they are sending pre-paid boxes. Well just yesterday I received an email from my Area Director stating that 2 clubs one in MN and one in WI are selling their curves smart II. Why can they sale theirs but I have to send my back so I have sent a email to CI asking the question WHY guess what I haven’t gotten a response.

  543. Sue on March 5th, 2010 1:11 pm

    I worked for a Curves, the women who owned it was as crooked at Gary H. They must of taught her well ( CI) she didnt even pay us till 2 months later, and closed 1 week before Chrisitmas 2008, the sad part is she still has one open and closed 3, with-out paying anything she owed back to the customers of the ones she closed, My God, she even kept their stinky shoes. One took her to court, and nothing paid back yet, but she sits there 30 miles away and is open for business, How does that work? The y say its individual franchises , but really owners like that.. hurt everyone,and NO one will ever open one up in the 26,000 pop, place that she closed for crappy, I know in 7 years Curves will be history. or sooner.

  544. Franchise Fire Sale on March 5th, 2010 3:44 pm

    From eBay:
    “I have complete set of equipment from a Curves for Women franchise. The owner of the franchise left the equipment after going out of business. It appears to be in very good condition with minimal or no wear. This includes 14 machines, 13 warm up pads, and wall posters. It’s too nice to scrap, I have rented the building to another tenant and need to remove this ASAP. ”
    Item location: Berkeley Heights, New Jersey, United States
    Ships to: Local pick-up only
    Ended: Feb 25, 201011:51:44 PST Bid history: 15 bids
    Winning bid: US $1,025.00

    “This is the whole package.Each piece is$1200 new.All 13 pieces are in like new condition or excellent condition.There are 13 pieces of equipment and 11 step mats.This item can only be picked up and i will help put in your truck.Store went out of business and need to be moved now.These are not heavy.”
    Item location: Boston, MA, United States
    Ships to: Local pick-up only

    Ended: Feb 27, 201018:26:03 PST
    Bid history: 19 bids
    Winning bid: US $1,000.00

  545. Franchise Fire Sale on March 5th, 2010 3:53 pm

    Craig’s List: “Curves fitness center equipment (arkansas) We are getting out of the fitness business and have 14 pieces of commercial quality hydraulic fitness equipment in excellent condition. We also have lots of other fitness equipment including 2 elipticals, recumbant bike, ab lounger and assundry other items. the whole fitness center of equipment for $3,000. Call 479-206-3640 for pictures and details.”

    Craig’s List: “Hydraulic Fitness Equipment-used at Hydraulic fitness equipment from a local downtown Curves for SELL! Prices are negotiable! Please call 214-752-0344 and ask for Ashley. ”

    “Silent Auction-Closing Curves Fitness Center (Downtown Dallas)”
    GOING OUT OF BUSINESS — EVERYTHING MUST GO
    SILENT AUCTION
    MONDAY, MARCH 1ST – 12 NOON TO 1:00 PM
    110 North Akard — Dallas, TX 75201
    Cash & Carry
    Exercise Equipment
    10 piece Curves Circuit Workout Equipment
    12 Recovery Boards (See attached description)
    1 Curves Stretching Station
    3 Exercise Balls
    1 Standing Weighing Scale “

  546. Franchise Fire Sale on March 5th, 2010 4:09 pm

    Craig’s List: “Curves smart system – $1500 (Mesa, AZ)
    ——————————————————————————–
    Date: 2010-02-17, 6:29PM MST
    Reply to: sale-bgmp7-1605642965@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
    ——————————————————————————–
    Selling Curves equipment and smart system”

    Craig’s List: CURVES FITNESS EQUIPMENT – $100 (5234 W MISSOURI AVE)

    ——————————————————————————–
    Date: 2010-03-05, 9:37AM MST
    Reply to: sale-xeb4y-1629747950@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

    ——————————————————————————–

    THERE ARE 13 CURVES FITNESS MACHINES AVAILABLE. CURVES FITNESS CLOSED AND ALL WAS LEFT BEHIND. THEY ARE IN EXCELLENT CONDITION. THEY ARE $100 EACH. LOCATION IS AT AUCTION HOUSE. PLEASE CALL 602-885-1149 TO ARRANGE VIEWING AND PICKUP.

  547. unhappy on March 5th, 2010 8:54 pm

    To Sue,
    It is such a shame to hear that about an owner but it happens way too much. I know of an owner who sells walking poles and he ran for the CFA in the last elections and won. He was able to use his influence to get CI to approve a walking pole and he has the the rights to sell them now to all Curves clubs. He is now pushing all clubs to start a walking class in order for him to line his pockets off of the sales of walking poles. Nothing but a low life just the same as Howie lies lies and lies. If it sounds like a duck it is a duck and unfortunately this time the guy is a dick trying to make money off of other Curves owners. They should change his name from Don to Donald Duck.

  548. Next step on March 5th, 2010 10:22 pm

    Sue,

    I know in the end the members are the ones that hurt the most. Anyway your point about the way the owner acted is true. I know that many owners have failed to cancel members, or send payments for transferring members. As bad as CI is so are the owners. Over all a lot of towns will never be able to have another Curves. Well CI may try to sell them (They are saying they are not right now), but I think if a person in a few years tries to reopen in that town they will be destine to fail. Word of mouth is powerful. Isn’t that what Curves used for advertising in the beginning.

  549. Next step on March 6th, 2010 12:38 am

    About the WW suit. The damage is done with the relationship we had with local WW sites. Another way CI managed to damage the clubs. Did GH really think that we could compete with them? We are no way even close to them in diet. I am not saying I think the WW diet is better, because I don’t think it is. However, I don’t see how in the world he thought that the commercial would benefit the local curves. I think he just wanted to appease his ego to the detriment of our clubs. I am sure he also wants to get back lost revenue.

    Hey maybe he lost his revenue and goodwill of his clubs when he oversold areas, and then he turned his club owners into cut throat bastard like himself. They had mortgages to pay and no cash flow to pay it with.

  550. Kim Heffington on March 8th, 2010 2:29 pm

    Unhappy,
    Last week you said some new developments would occur at the end of last week concerning CI’s charging closing fees. I haven’t seen anything regarding this. Were there any developments?

  551. Undecided on March 15th, 2010 12:07 pm

    Unhappy,
    Where are you? I would kind of like to know the answer to the question that Kim Heffington has posed also—you wrote of this breaking news on Feb. 28–about the excess costs that Howie has charged over the years…….I know of one…just to get my name off the franchise agreement when my partner bought out my share, I had to pay CI $2000. Wish I knew then what I know now and I sure would have fought that charge, but I just wanted OUT!
    Undecided

  552. unhappy on March 15th, 2010 1:19 pm

    My wife was hospitalized over a week ago and didn’t get released until Wen. of last week and unfortunately while I was up there everyday I caught a very nasty virus and have been sick since last Wednesday the day she got out. It was a hell of a cold both chest and head (sinus) and for a couple of days we were concerned that it was the swine virus. I’m just getting over it but now my wife is coming down with it. I have some very interesting new and once I’m caught up with all the emails from clubs that have requested help closing I will post all the news of CI here in a day or two. Please be patient and check back here over the next couple of days.

  553. Undecided on March 15th, 2010 1:29 pm

    Unhappy–I’m so sorry to hear of you and your wife’s illnesses. Hope you are both on the road to a speedy recovery and I’m sure all here do the same. Thanks for getting back to us in a timely manner.

  554. Victim2 on March 19th, 2010 2:19 pm

    Oprah wants input from viewers as to who she should interview in 2010. I think everyone should send her an e-mail and tell her to interview Gary, or maybe all the owners whose lives he has destroyed.

  555. Victim2 on March 19th, 2010 2:20 pm

    Here’s the link

    https://www.oprah.com/ownshow/plug_form.html?plug_id=3337311

  556. unhappy 2 on March 26th, 2010 10:50 am

    curves doesnt even fit the 2010 standard ACSM guidelines for weight management or weight loss..
    the starndard has been updated to an hour A DAY..not 30 minutes 3 times a week..

    SCREW YOU HOWARD! Time to payback all that you stole..from randy and from your franchisees.. your unethical lying non christian sob

  557. unhappy on March 28th, 2010 9:26 pm

    Hello everyone, I’m finally back and have some interesting info to share with all curves owners. So much has happened since my last post I don’t know where all to start. First off lets start with the 10,000 dollar closing fee that by now most if not all owners know not to pay. If you or any owners that you know paid any portion of the so called closing fee listen up as you are entitled to a refund. First off if you will think back on the time that you paid the fee when closing early you were intimidated, threatened, and lied to by CI in order to get you to pay some portion of the closing fee. CI claimed that if you refused to pay the fee you would be turned over to legal as you were in breach of your contract. CI enticed owners into paying this closing fee by offering a so called “mutual release” thus preventing any future legal problems with CI for closing early.(Of course this was not the case as many owners were still sued even after paying the fee and recieving the “mutual release”} CI was fully aware that the future franchise and advertising fees could not be collected once you close. So in reality CI was using extortion tactics to get owners to pay the closing fee.

    All owners who have paid any portion of that closing fee are entitled to a refund but it should be obvious that Heavin is going to refuse to give the owners any money back. So here is what we are purposing to do to get that money back from Curves and Howie. First off you must send a written letter to Curves requesting your closing fees to be refunded at once as you feel it was money that was extroted from you. Make sure you send it registared reciept so you have a record of CI recieving it. Once you have recieved a responce from CI refusing your request send an email to Admin at this address unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com with your name, address, and phone number. In the subject box put closing fee and the amount you paid. We have lawyers who have agreed to file a group action lawsuit against curves in order for owners who have paid a portion of that fee to recoop some of thier money they paid. The lawyers will take the case on a contengency basis of 33% but they have set a dollar limit amount that we must obtain before they will handle the cases. In order for the lawyer’s to take the case we need a minimum dollar amout of $600,000.00. That shouldn’t be too hard to get to considering how many Curves clubs closed in the last 2 years. Now I know we have had a disscussion before on this board where some current owner tries to tell you that the only person who makes money in these cases is the lawyer but think about it. If you paid the minimum of $3,000.00 you will recieve $2,010.00. While it may not be the total you paid but for most of the owners who have had to close it is better than not getting anything back at all from this corrupt corporation known as Curves.

    [Disclaimer: The statements & opinions expressed in the comments sections of this site are that of the comment authors alone and not necessarily shared nor are they endorsed by UnhappyFranchisee.com, its owners or its administrators. As we do not allow posting of email addresses or personal contact information, we will forward email messages via unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com on request. However, forwarding does not imply endorsement or participation. We advise our readers to seek qualified legal counsel on all matters regarding franchise agreements, relationship and contractual obligations. – ADMIN UnhappyFranchisee.Com]

  558. unhappy on March 28th, 2010 9:42 pm

    It has been brought to our attention that the transfer fee Curves International has charged in the past is also illegal in most States. Curves International has been trying to charge exorbitant fees for quite some time. I believe that they are now charging up to $5,000.00 now just to transfer you franchise agreement to a new owner. This is just another way for Howie to make more money off the franchise owners. All owners need to refuse to pay these fees as Howie has no legal reason to substantiate these charges which in most states are illegal. Again if you or any owner you know is having this problem contact me by sending an email to ADMIN with your name, address and phone number to unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com. Also if you have paid such a fee in the past drop an email to ADMIN and he will forward it to me as if we get enough owners to respond we maybe able to get a lawyer to handle cases like this also.

  559. unhappy on March 28th, 2010 9:53 pm

    In the last week or so I have heard of several owners receiving letters from lawyers outside of TX. threatening to sue the owners if they don’t pay the franchise and advertising fee. Most of these lawyers were from the state of Illinois. We are in the process of checking these out as in the notices it states that if the owner refuses to pay they will be taken to court in their area. First off this seems to be just another one of the intimidating tactics that Howie is trying to use. All owners should know by now that the venue for any lawsuit is WACO, TX. ( California and Washington being the exception) One of two things is going on here. Either Howie has lost his mind or he has burned so many lawyers in the WACO, Dallas/FT. Worth area that no respectable lawyer will handle his lawsuits. What do you think the reason is?

  560. unhappy on March 28th, 2010 10:17 pm

    If you are an overseas franchise and are having problems with CI we would love to hear from you. Send an email to Admin at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com. We have just installed skype’s so there will be no cost on a phone call. We would like to apologize to all overseas clubs for taking so long to get Skype’s up and running.

  561. jd on March 29th, 2010 11:17 am

    Unhappy states:

    ‘It has been brought to our attention that the transfer fee Curves International has charged in the past is also illegal in most States.’

    I’m curious to know which states is it illegal in (and by using most I assume that is 26 or more). The reason I ask this question, is because if you look at the AAFD & AAHOA websites and their standards of fair franchising they both agree that ‘reasonable’ transfer fees should be paid. These are two franchisee advocate associations. It would surprise me if they wouldn’t recommend a $0 transfer fee if most states found it illegal. Now is $5k reasonable, I don’t know. I guess it depends on what the new franchisee gets.

  562. Fit Dude on March 30th, 2010 4:20 pm

    There goes another one: http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2514395

    It’s sad to see members left hanging.

  563. unhappy on March 30th, 2010 11:32 pm

    Curves International has now reach another low. If a club notifies CI that they intend to close CI is responding by sending them an email that states closing is not an option. YA RIGHT!!!!! What idiot came up with that? Howie of course. What a complete crook. Hey Howie how low will you go? Just another example of a your lack of ethics, integrity, and and moral fiber. And you have the gall to call yourself a born again Christian.

  564. unhappy on March 30th, 2010 11:40 pm

    jd

    In most states the law does state that the fee must be reasonable. Do you believe that 5,000.00 dollars is reasonable for transferring the franchise agreement from one individual to another. Actually the new owner has to sign a new agreement and it must be signed by Howie and notarized and than filed.. Lets see to have a document notarized is usually free at your bank or at most 5 dollars. I would be willing to bet there is a notary in the Curves offices. Anyway I don’t think any court would consider 5,000 dollars reasonable. DO YOU?

  565. jd on March 31st, 2010 9:41 am

    There is more to a transfer than what you are saying. I’m sure that there are some Curves franchisees that hand the next owners the keys and then don’t speak to them (actually I think people on here have complained about that). So, then it’s phone calls to CI to help them with things.

    Your previous post was irresponsible, because you stated that transfer fees were illegal and a form of extortion. Imagine another franchisee from a different system reading that?

    Actually, pointing this irresponsible post out should make people wonder how reliable you are, or whether you are exaggerating on the other ‘extortion’ plots of ‘Howie’.

  566. unhappy on March 31st, 2010 11:44 am

    jd
    first off you need to get your facts straight. I never said the transfer fees are extortion. The way curves international tries to collect closing fees certainly is extortion. It is illegal for curves to try to charge 5000.00 dollars for transfer fees and owners who have paid that amount should demand a refund or take Howie to court. PERIOD. The only person being irresponsible is you trying to stick up for Howie and the way he does business.

  567. tickedoff on March 31st, 2010 12:29 pm

    jd
    Who are you and why are you even on this web site?

  568. unhappy on March 31st, 2010 12:32 pm

    tickedoff,
    Should be obvious—– he is just another stooge for Howie.

  569. CURVES: Should Failed Franchises be Resold? : Unhappy Franchisee on March 31st, 2010 1:20 pm

    [...] more than 500 comments posted here by struggling Curves franchise owners support that [...]

  570. jd on March 31st, 2010 2:54 pm

    What’s funny is that you think I’m a ‘stooge’ for ‘Howie’. I’ve posted on this website before Sean ever posted this story, so I’ve followed it.

    I just find it funny when people come on here, and don’t tell the entire story, because you see it on these sites/forums/blogs all the time. I’m sure that there is plenty that isn’t being said, and that’s why I post.

    I don’t think that unhappy has ever stated that 80+% of the plaintiffs in the trial going on right now were ‘counter-sued’ by Curves. There are quite a few settlements going on in that trial too. Makes you wonder if people are confident in their case.

  571. unhappy on March 31st, 2010 3:35 pm

    jd,

    you have lost us—-where did this thought even come from

    “I don’t think that unhappy has ever stated that 80+% of the plaintiffs in the trial going on right now were ‘counter-sued’ by Curves. There are quite a few settlements going on in that trial too. Makes you wonder if people are confident in their case.

    and what are you trying to say—of course a few have settled but that doesn’t mean the litigants are not confident in their case, just the contrary it shows that CI is afraid they are going to lose or CI wouldn’t have settled at all.

  572. Guest on March 31st, 2010 4:51 pm

    unhappy, I think that jd has a good point about you needing to be more responsible with your statements. You are not an attorney, correct? Please be clearer about which is your off-the-cuff opinion and which is a verified fact.

    For example, you wrote: “In most states the law does state that the fee must be reasonable. Do you believe that 5,000.00 dollars is reasonable for transferring the franchise agreement from one individual to another…. I don’t think any court would consider 5,000 dollars reasonable.”

    I searched “average franchise transfer fee” and found this list on Franchise Pundit, posted by an actual attorney. Here are some transfer fees from other franchises:
    * Pizza Factory: $12,000
    * Quizno’s: $5,000
    * Dominic’s of New York: $1,000 + 6% of sales price
    * Cheeburger Cheeburger: $12,250
    * Pizza Patron: $5,000
    * The Dugout: $5,000
    * Arby’s: $13,500
    * Jerq’zine: $10,000
    * Sub Station II: $5,000
    * Steak-Out: $18,750
    * Herman’s World of Sports: $12,500
    * Sears Carpet and Upholstery: $3,000 – $6,000 (depends on market size)
    * Stone Mountain Carpet Mill Outlet: $2,500
    * Screenz: $5,000
    * Sports Clips: $25,000
    * Fantastic Sams: $20,000 or 10% of sales price (whichever is greater)
    * Hair Cuttery: $5,000 ($0 if franchisee for 5+ years)

    It really doesn’t matter what you think is reasonable, does it? What matters is what a court believes and the Curves transfer fee is well within the average range in the industry. Not to mention, those terms are in the FDD submitted and approved in registration states.

    Please stop misleading people before they and you get in trouble because of it.

  573. Guest on March 31st, 2010 4:56 pm

    unhappy wrote: “the transfer fee Curves International has charged in the past is also illegal in most States.”

    unhappy, could you please post the list of the 26+ states that have deemed the Curves transfer fee illegal? I’m sure everyone would find that most helpful.

    Thanks.

  574. ADMIN on March 31st, 2010 5:03 pm

    New Curves post about the Niagra Falls club closure and CI’s standard reaction:

    CURVES: Should Failed Franchises be Resold?

    Comments, insights & opinions appreciated.

  575. frazzled on March 31st, 2010 6:45 pm

    The stories posted here about Curves are sad. But even sadder is the fact that there are literally thousands more just like them or worse. So many persons enthusiastically bought Curves. Many of us did everything we could to investigate buying a Curves prior to making the leap. However, much of information was simply untrue.

    After so many years of owning a Curves; I can’t even list the number of times we were given incorrect information or Howie made false promises.

    There was no support, no listening to owner’s problems, suggestions or solutions.

    Howie seemed to be working against his own franchisees. But then who has he had a business relationship with that continued as positive?

  576. unhappy on April 1st, 2010 2:26 am

    To Guest on March 31st, 2010 4:51 pm ,

    First off I am not a lawyer but I can tell you what is going on with curves and all the different lawsuits that have been filed and ones that are just now forming to be filed. While you and I may differ on what is a reasonable amount for transfer fees, you are dead wrong when you state “What matters is what a court believes”. When and if this get’s to court it will be a jury who decides if it is reasonable or not you or I. Furthermore your statement “Not to mention, those terms are in the FDD submitted and approved in registration states” is totally a lie. While it maybe in the new franchise agreement (I doubt that it is although it could be as I haven’t seen one since they were changed in MAY of 2009) it is defiantly not in the old UFCO(now refereed as FDD) filing or any of the franchise agreements dated before 2009. In fact most of the 10 and 5 year contracts have a 2,000 dollar transfer fee which is still unreasonable.

    We have contacted three lawyers in the State of TX all of whom feel that it could be argued successfully in TX court that it is an unreasonable amount to ask for as a transfer fee and if you take the time to call several franchise lawyers who represent franchisee not franchisor’s, I’m sure you will get the same answer. What they will tell you is that it would be extremely costly do so. For one owner it would not be cost effective as you would not win enough back from the suit to pay your legal fees but if enough owners come together with the same complaint and file a group action lawsuit it would be enough as the legal fees would be around 40 percent of the total settlement. That way it would be worth the lawyers time to pursue the cases.

    It doesn’t have anything to do with what state you live in or if that state has laws against unreasonable transfer fees as according to your franchise agreement the venue of any court action has to take place in Waco, TX. unless you do business in Washington or California state. Both of those states have strict franchise laws that have been enacted to protect the franchisee. Both states have laws permitting owners to change the venue out of Waco and to their home state. It turns out Washington and California are pretty strict on franchisor’s and both have state law says they cannot charge “exorbitant transfer fees” but must tie the fees to actual costs incurred from the transfer. I know of several owners in Washington State that Curves International dropped the transfer fee altogether once they retained a lawyer to contest the unreasonable fee. If you are so interested you can Google the Washington State Franchise Laws and then read the RCW’s which are the Revised Code of Washington which states just that. If you were a Curves owner you would certainly know that, as there has been many posts from owners who have researched their state franchise laws and have posted their findings on the Yahoo curves owner site.

    While there are many states that have laws similar to California and Washington statutes stating that franchisor’s cannot charge “exorbitant transfer fees” but must tie the fees to actual costs incurred from the transfer, I know this because I have talked to many owners from back east who have either done the required research or talked to a lawyer in their home state. But the point being is that it doesn’t matter what your state laws say’s as any court case over this will be fought in Texas unless you are in California or Washington state and there are lawyers in Texas that will take these cases if enough owners can band together to form a group action lawsuit.

  577. unhappy on April 1st, 2010 2:50 am

    HOW LOW CAN HOWIE GO????

    Recently owners who notify Curves International that they are going broke and are forced to close receive an e-mail from Windy Law in the resale department stating that closing is not an option. How much gall does that take??? Howie thinks that he can prevent clubs from closing by telling them closing is not an option. Where was he when owners were literally bagging for help? His response was to have fireside chats where he blamed the owners. What a sick joke!!!!!!!!!

  578. Guest on April 1st, 2010 6:54 am

    unhappy:

    You wrote: “the transfer fee Curves International has charged in the past is also illegal in most States.”

    Now you state “We have contacted three lawyers in the State of TX all of whom feel that it could be argued successfully in TX court that it is an unreasonable amount to ask for as a transfer fee…”

    Three lawyers who FEEL “it could be argued” in TX is a far cry from “illegal in most states,” is it not?

    Then you say “there are many states that have laws similar to California and Washington statutes stating that franchisor’s cannot charge ‘exorbitant transfer fees’” Having statutes against exorbitant fees is NOT the same as having found Curves transfer fees illegal, is it?

    Could you please either admit that your statement was not true or post the list of the 26+ states that have determined the Curves transfer fee is “illegal”?

  579. jd on April 1st, 2010 9:26 am

    As guest states, ‘Three lawyers who FEEL it could be argued’. Pretty much any you could find an attorney to argue any case you want. Hell, Sean had a story about an attorney that was using a science fiction book as part of his complaint (sadly that case hasn’t been dismissed).

    I just looked at the Curves UFOC from 2006 on CA’s website it states:

    ‘The payment to Curves of a transfer fee of in the amount of $5,000….Franchisee agrees that such transfer fee is reasonably required to cover Curves’ expenses related to transfer’.

    You say it’s up to the jury. Sure the jury may side with the zees, but odds are it’ll be taken to appeals (where they would probably look at contract law), and it would probably be a case that the IFA would follow closely and probably put some weight behind.

    Right now, you state that all they have to do is notarize a piece of paper, which is again an exaggeration of yours.

    I think it’s fair to ask you, how much of your own money have you put up? You are more than happy to suggest to people to put their money up for a lawsuit.

    As for the settlements, if you are sure that they were favorable to the zees, how about posting what they were. Then again, I’m also the one that told you that the case was moved back, so I’m guessing you aren’t on top of it as you’d like to appear.

  580. unhappy on April 1st, 2010 10:21 am

    Guest ,

    I never said that 26 states had determine the 5000 dollar curves transfer fee is illegal. I sated that in most states it is illegal for Howie to charge that unreasonable amount and I stand by that statement. Most states have inacted statues similar to Califorina and Washington State that prohibit franchises from charging exorbitant transsfer fees. If you so interested in which states have inacted similar statues you can look it up yourself. Each curves owner can look up his own states statues by Googeling his or hers state franchise laws but the point is it doesn’t matter what state has statues prohibiting these unreasonable charges and which don’t as it has to be faught in the Waco District Court unless you live in Califoria or Washington. We know for a fact those fees won’t hold up in Califoria or Washington and if enough owners in other states refuse to pay, it will eventually in up in the Texas courts and be settled there. The Texas lawyers wouldn’t be willing to take this on a contengency fee if they weren’t confident of winning the case.

    It is apparent that you support Curves international for charging this unreasonalbe fee as well as the closing fee of 10,000 dollars. Why would you surport any company that has used such deceptive practises to take advantage of their franchisee?

    Just for your info here is a list of states that have similar statues…MT, WA, ID, CA, NV, AZ, NM, TN, WV, OH, NY, MA, ILL, MN, ND, SD, LA, FL, ME, MD, OR, PA, RI, AR, NC, SC, AND KS. Now does that mean that it has been determined to be illegal for curves to charge that unreasonalbe transfer fee in those states. Of course not because it has never been taken to court yet. When ever an owner complains loud enough or retains a lawyer to contest the charges with Curves Howie has either lowered the fee or waved it completly as he knows if it is ever taken to court he will lose and open up the doors for all of the previous owners who have paid the fee to demand a refund.

  581. jd on April 1st, 2010 10:37 am

    ‘When ever an owner complains loud enough or retains a lawyer to contest the charges with Curves Howie has either lowered the fee or waved it completly as he knows if it is ever taken to court he will lose and open up the doors for all of the previous owners who have paid the fee to demand a refund.’

    Have you ever thought that maybe Curves looks at it as a business situation, and that $10k in legal fees is more than the $5k in transfer fees? Probably not, you seem to be more interested in the attorney making a lot of money.

  582. unhappy on April 1st, 2010 11:56 am

    Well jd you maybe right as Howie certainly has made money his god. You know you and Howie seem to be two peas in a pod.

  583. Someone who can count on April 1st, 2010 12:14 pm

    It’s clear than jd and guest don’t need any help here, but what the hell.

    “It is apparent that you support Curves international for charging this unreasonalbe fee as well as the closing fee of 10,000 dollars. Why would you surport any company that has used such deceptive practises to take advantage of their franchisee?”

    What’s apparent, is that he or she and a lot of other people don’t agree with YOU and it’s REALLY apparent that that pisses you off. So you call everyone who disagrees with you names or make baseless assertions that they must be working for Curves. Disagreeing with your nonsense doesn’t mean they support CI, just that they think YOU are wrong. It doesn’t mean that they are anti-franchisee or pro-franchisor, just that they think YOU are less than truthful, prone to exaggeration, aren’t fully aware of the law, current settlements in similar cases, or even the status of your own case. And you wonder why people call YOUR judgment and opinions into question? You can’t even do math!

    “I never said that 26 states had determine the 5000 dollar curves transfer fee is illegal.“

    Actually, that is pretty much EXACTLY what you said:

    When you said “It has been brought to our attention that the transfer fee Curves International has charged in the past is also illegal in most States.” and “All owners need to refuse to pay these fees as Howie has no legal reason to substantiate these charges which in most states are illegal.” YOU then clarified your position and again (falsely) claimed it was “illegal” “It is illegal for curves to try to charge 5000.00 dollars for transfer fees…”

    Simple math is not your forte so I’ll help you out. We have 50 states (look it up) and for you to state that it is “illegal in MOST states.” means that AT LEAST 26 (a majority) have found that to be the case. What goes on in one state and is considered “unreasonable” there does not make something “illegal” anywhere else. Even in states with “similar statues”. Yet despite the overwhelming evidence that someone pulled up on this exact issue from the franchise pundit site showing that the fee is in fact “reasonable” based on the industry standards and what other franchisee charge, you are still contending that this fee is illegal “in MOST states”.

    To bolster your civil complaint you regularly state opinion as fact and then based on those fallacious “facts” make statements as to what is and is not “legal”. You’ve even made criminal accusations here, you might want to do a search for internet libel laws. It would be interesting to see how much you like the legal system when you are on the receiving end. So “apparently” when jd and others say that maybe people shouldn’t take YOUR word as gospel and should question your knowledge and motives, they might have a point.

  584. Guest on April 1st, 2010 1:47 pm

    “the transfer fee Curves International has charged in the past is also illegal in most States.” unhappy on March 28th, 2010 9:42 pm

    “It is illegal for curves to try to charge 5000.00 dollars for transfer fees…” unhappy on March 31st, 2010 11:44 am

    “I never said that 26 states had determine the 5000 dollar curves transfer fee is illegal.” unhappy on April 1st, 2010 10:21 am

    unhappy:

    I agree with “someone who can count on” when he/she says you “regularly state opinion as fact and then based on those fallacious “facts” make statements as to what is and is not ‘legal’. ”

    I think you mean well but people listening to you should do so with a huge grain of salt and definitely verify your assertions by consulting an actual attorney rather than a blog commenter who obviously has a personal grudge.

    “someone” also makes a good point about libel laws. For your own sake, you should read up on it. You are much more liable (in my humble opinion) if you make it clear that what you post is just your opinion.

    “If the person makes a statement of opinion as opposed to fact, the statement may not support a cause of action for defamation.”
    http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html

    “Courts look at whether a reasonable reader or listener could understand the statement as asserting a statement of verifiable fact.”
    http://www.chillingeffects.org/defamation/faq.cgi#QID715

    Good time for you to post a disclaimer. hint hint.

  585. jd on April 1st, 2010 2:48 pm

    Here’s a point that hasn’t been brought up about transfer fees, I’m sure most of these people that paid the transfer fee probably had it included in their sales prices and passed it along to the new buyer. Wouldn’t that be something to bring up in front of the jury? Maybe then the person that bought the store could then sue the seller for inflating their sales price, since it included ‘unreasonable fees’.

  586. unhappy on April 2nd, 2010 8:29 pm

    jd,

    I hope your point was meant to be laughable and a little sarcastic as if not your one sick puppy to come up with that one. Although I would expect it out of Howie if he was in the shoe of the owners. I guess it’s yours and Howe’s philosophy to make a buck anyway you can right, jd? Where is your compassion for all the owners jd who have lost nearly if not all of everything they owned because of the ( oh better make it in my opinion ) dishonest, unethical, immoral, lack of integrity, unchristian like and quite possibly illegal business tactics that Howie has used and the way he has mismanaged the franchisee. But you do touch a button for most respectable owners past and present, as some clubs (I have not idea how many) are guilty of overstating the actual numbers of active members to inflate the sales price. Actually some owners have been sued over that and rightfully so but Howie has some responsibility for that deception as well. Before the clubs could be sold to the new owner the previous owner had to send in a signed statement as stated in the franchise agreement giving the total active membership as well as the selling price for the club as per franchise agreement. It would have been very easy to mislead the new owner but it is inconceivable that Howie didn’t know about the fraudulent amount of active members being used to base the sales price on considering that at the end of each month each franchise had to send financial reports including a projection sheet. In fact Howie certainly knew what was going on as he himself brought it up on several different occasions during speeches at convention and regional meetings. I do not know of any circumstance where Howie brought this information out to the buyer or prevented a sale. I know jd we have gone over this with you before and you use the excuse that the seller would have than sued Howie. Who knows maybe sellers would have tried to sue but I for one believe that Howie had a moral obligation to put a stop to this practice once he was aware it was going on. Simply put, to me, it shows a callous disregard for integrity, immoral, unethical and defiantly not Christian like. As you well know Howie sold franchises by advertising that Curves was a Christian run business based on Christian principles.

    If you take the time to read all the other examples of business tactics that were used on owners such as the 10,000 dollar closing fee, ( not in any franchise agreement before 2009) the so called “mutual release” , the threatening letters of termination being sent to 24/7 clubs ( again nothing in the contract ) the lack of any support, the over population of clubs in metro areas, selling territories under 1500 in population which could have never supported a club in the first place, lack of advertising, underestimating the actual costs of running a franchise and overestimating the profit potential just to name a few you should understand why so many owners are up in arms, filling lawsuits to recover a portion of their losses. Your totally off base and have no right to blame the owners for their business failing. You can point out that the economy sucks, that the owners didn’t do due diligence, and that owners are always trying to blame someone else for their own failure but unless and until you are an owner your explanation is worthless and false and only meant to stir up and piss off owners as you don’t have any perception as to how Howie has mismanaged this franchise. The number of lawsuits being filed against Howie alone should be a good indication to anyone ever remotely considering buying a Curves franchise to walk, no run as fast as you can in the other direction.

  587. jd on April 3rd, 2010 10:14 am

    Good laugh for a Sat morning:

    ‘ Your totally off base and have no right to blame the owners for their business failing.’

    Okay 100% of the blame of not bringing in new members, keeping old members, keeping costs down, overpaying for a club bought, etc. should be blamed on the franchisor. Good level headed thinking there.

    I’ve noticed that a lot of franchisees that failed, bring up the ‘christianity’ claim (Cuppy’s, Curves, YTB in the MLM industry but thought they would go to franchising). I’m starting to think that maybe it’s a target market out there because maybe people are too gullible.

  588. Wondering on April 3rd, 2010 1:03 pm

    You list several reasons that clubs failed because of CI’s actions:

    “over population of clubs in metro areas”
    “ling territories under 1500 in population which could have never supported a club in the first place”
    “lack of advertising”
    “underestimating the actual costs of running a franchise and overestimating the profit potential”

    So, which of these is what caused YOUR clubs to fail?
    Oversaturation? It says your clubs were in Las Vegas, how many other clubs were there? A city that size could easily support 2 dozen.
    Territory population? That couldn’t have been an issue in Las Vegas. You say yourself that your area was greater than 30,000
    Advertising? How much local advertising did YOU do? Doesn’t Curves recommend you spend at least $500 a month in addition to the $300 or so a month you send them?
    Monthly expenses? You didn’t know how much rent, electric, payroll, etc… were going to cost you? Did they rent your properties or did you? It’s kind of hard to follow as you jump around quite a bit, but it looks like you owned 1 club that you sold in 2001 (taking no profit from the sale I’m sure), then bought 2 more in 2001, then another 2 in 2002 for a total of 5 different locations. How many locations does it take to get a feel for what YOUR expensive will be?

    Or was it that they just weren’t “Christian enough” to you?

  589. Don by the sea on April 3rd, 2010 7:12 pm

    Curves was and still is advertised as a Christian company but Gary and Diane are not Christian by any sense of the word. I have watched this company continue on a downward sprial for years as a result of the management under the direction of the ego maniac Gary Heavin. The closing fee that CI is trying to intimidate owners into paying is a form of extortion as well as the excessive fees for moving a club, transfering ownership, combining territories, ect ect.ect. and the list is growing bigger day by day As owners many of us have tried to get things to change to help the owners survive and have even worked through the CFA to no avail. Now the CFA belittles owners by sending out a condesending letter about the 24/7 clubs that are being sent termination letters by CI. Many owners refuse to even join the CFA and its easy to understand why as it has done nothing to help owners. It appears that the downward spiral of Curves will continue until it no longer exists. Unfortunatly that maybe in the very near future.

  590. Robert Lay on April 4th, 2010 8:57 pm

    Wondering ,
    I take it your post is directed at me, but you must not have read the above story,
    CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story, as I explain in detail what our problems were with CI all of which pertain to the basis for the individual lawsuit that we have filed against CI.

    The lists of reasons you copied and posted:………

    “You list several reasons that clubs failed because of CI’s actions:

    “over population of clubs in metro areas”
    “ling territories under 1500 in population which could have never supported a club in the first place”
    “lack of advertising”
    “underestimating the actual costs of running a franchise and overestimating the profit potential” …………………

    are what the basis of the group action lawsuit filed by the Zarco law firm, out of Miami FL.is based on that has over 250 litigants and will be going to court (not counting any more delays) in August. Depending on the outcome of this trail there are over 1500 owners who want to be included in the “second wave”.

    Since it appears you don’t own a franchise you need to read all the posts to follow why and what the owners blame for their business failures which all have a common theme. Instead it would appear that you with having no direct knowledge of how Curves International operates wants to blame the owners for their demise. Several old sayings come to mind such as “put your money where your mouth is or walk a mile in the owners shoes and than come back to this board and post your findings. If you want to try to argue that CI is such a great company buy one. There are plenty for sale for less than 5,000 dollars which is less than you will pay to have it transferred into your name. You would than have the same impressions and feelings that 95 percent of the curves franchise owners have and which many of the owners have expressed in the above posts on this board.

  591. Wipedout on April 5th, 2010 2:35 am

    Has anyone seen Curves bars or Curves cereal in their local grocery store lately? I haven’t. Have Curves food products vanished like most Curves clubs have?

  592. Guest on April 5th, 2010 10:05 am

    It turns out that Curves cereal turns black people white. Or vice versa. That could be affecting sales. :)

    Check out #2 at: http://www.11points.com/Misc/11_Photos_Where_Black_People_Were_Awkwardly_Photoshopped_In_or_Out

  593. unhappy on April 5th, 2010 1:29 pm

    The Curves bars is a prime example of how Howie makes everything into a revenue stream for CI instead of the franchises. When the curves bars where first introduced they were sold exclusively in the clubs and were a great success. You could buy them for 50 cents and sell them for a buck. You couldn’t keep them on the shelf as the members loved them. With in six months Howie was selling them to discount stores for less than franchise owners could buy them. The clubs were forced in to not selling them as the clubs could not compete with the discount stores. Same thing with the cereal. Now both products are gone from the stores and are discontinued.

  594. Wondering on April 5th, 2010 2:54 pm

    “If you want to try to argue that CI is such a great company”

    Where did I say that CI was “a great company”? I asked which of those reasons that YOU listed were why YOUR clubs failed.

    You replied with “The lists of reasons you copied and posted:……… are what the basis of the group action lawsuit”

    Aren’t you the primary litigant? If THAT is “the basis” (YOUR words) of YOUR lawsuit and I couldn’t see how ANY of them applied to you, I’ll ask you again, which of those were the reasons YOUR clubs closed?

  595. Robert Lay on April 5th, 2010 5:36 pm

    Wondering

    I know you can read but it appears you have a problem with comprehension and your writing skills need some work also. (ex.”How many locations does it take to get a feel for what YOUR expensive will be?” Do you mean expenses?) If I didn’t know better I would think you were darn right mad with all the unnecessary letters capitalized.

    I have never stated that I was a primary litigant in the class action law suit but I as well as 99% of the owners all have those four common threads found in the group action lawsuit. I am not a part of the first wave of over 250 owners who have filed a group action law suit that goes to court in August. but I am in the second wave along with over 1500 owners who are yet to file depending on the outcome of the first trail.
    I also have filed an individual lawsuit against CI and Gary Heavin. But my reasons for our individual lawsuit is not based on those arguments. We were denied the rights provided for in our contract with Curves when we were supposedly terminated (all three clubs yet franchise and advertising fee were still deducted from out checking account) and one of our franchises was resold with out our permission or notice. We were further damaged when we bought and paid for Curves smart, waited for three months for the delivery and then told that we were being refused curves smart thus preventing us to be competitive with neighboring clubs. There is also several instances where our contact with Curves was violated by neighboring clubs advertising in our territory as well as hiring our trained staff and CI refused to take any action.

  596. Undecided on April 5th, 2010 8:29 pm

    To Don by the sea
    Excuse me, but aren’t you on one of the committees of the CFA? And you are knocking them……Which they should be “knocked”, but what the heck are you doing to get things changed? Once you got elected again you acted just like the rest of them.

  597. unhappy on April 5th, 2010 11:24 pm

    Hey hold on undecided, I don’t think the person who posted on Apr 3rd is the Don who you are referring too. I pretty sure I know the person who you are referring to who goes by a similar name (but not the same) on a different Curves site that just recently changed it’s site’s name. That is the yahoo group site for curves owners and that person named Don is an elected official of the CFA as well as the past (and in all likelihood still ) owner/moderator of the Yahoo group site. I don’t believe that this post was written by him for several reasons.

    But you bring up an interesting point about the CFA. Why do you feel that the CFA should be “knocked” and how has the Don you are referring to who was just elected last summer to the CFA changed and “acted just like the rest of them”. What do you mean by that? Also as an (ex)owner what do you feel about the up coming CFA elections? Should owners join so they can get a vote or is not worth the 50 dollars that it costs to join?

  598. Someone who can still count. on April 6th, 2010 2:30 pm

    “I have never stated that I was a primary litigant in the class action law suit but I as well as 99% of the owners all have those four common threads found in the group action lawsuit. I am not a part of the first wave of over 250 owners who have filed a group action law suit that goes to court in August. but I am in the second wave along with over 1500 owners who are yet to file depending on the outcome of the first trail.”

    What a great man you must be to have gotten all this business for the lawyers when you don’t even have a financial stake in the case! Someone, please call the Nobel committee. Hey hold on, you didn’t actually say you don’t have a financial interest in the case. Did you get any sort of finder’s fee? Will you get a percentage if successful?

    Even if you didn’t, it looks like you got 250 other people to pay the entire cost of the “first wave” lawsuit and then you will step in on the “second wave” for free? Or if the first one fails, you can just walk away having paid nothing to the lawyers out of your own pocket? Nicely done sir.

  599. unhappy on April 7th, 2010 10:58 am

    ATTENTION ALL PRESENT AN PAST CURVES OWNERS. YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT
    Federal Judge Likens Franchising as Business to “Modified Ponzi Scheme” and Holds that Franchisor is Employer of Massachusetts Franchisees

    excerpt:
    “In an opinion issued on March 23, 2010, in Awuah v. Coverall North America, Inc., the Honorable William G. Young, a federal judge in Boston, held that a commercial cleaning franchisor was the “employer” of its Massachusetts franchisees and had violated the Massachusetts Independent Contractor Act by “misclassifying” the franchisees as “independent contractors.” Civil Action No. 07-10287-WGY. Perhaps even more disturbing to franchisors, however, is Judge Young’s observation, in response to the franchisor’s argument that franchising is a business distinct from the business conducted by its franchisees, that “[d]escribing franchising as a business in itself, as Coverall seeks to do, sounds vaguely like a description for a modified Ponzi scheme—a company that does not earn money from the sale of goods and services, but from taking in more money from unwitting franchisees to make payments to previous franchisees.” (Slip op. at 8.)”

    [ed. note: we can't post the entire text of an article without permission, only an excerpt and link to the original source. Thanks.]

  600. NJNow on April 7th, 2010 1:58 pm

    When I sent a letter to the BBB of Waco Tx, I got back a message from them stating that they considered my situation an employer/employee dispute and I should pursue it as such.

  601. guest on April 7th, 2010 4:24 pm

    Are you guys saying that you should be classified as employees?

    One minute you’re complaining there’s no support, you never see a rep, blah blah blah the next you’re saying they exert employer-like control?

    Which is it?

  602. Anon on April 7th, 2010 4:38 pm

    Whatever puts the blame on someone else. LOL

  603. unhappy on April 7th, 2010 5:34 pm

    here is the link to the article all curves owners past and present should read!!!!!

    http://www.nixonpeabody.com/publications_detail3.asp?ID=3226

  604. Small Town on April 7th, 2010 11:21 pm

    My wife and I closed our Curves 2 weeks ago. Our 5 year franchise agreement finally expired. My wife was directed to this site by another Curves owner from our area that was forced to close her Curves. We loved our Curves and our members. We poured our lives into it, but it’s quite a relief to know it is almost over. We want to reopen as a fitness club with a card scanner door sytem, I don’t know what you call it, we will not be open 24/7.Our members want to keep coming and I feel we can get the support to sucsesfully run a new fitness club.
    Dealing with CI has been the worst experience of our lives. Many of you on this site can relate. I have spent the last couple of days reading all the posts on this site, from the beginning. I had found it to be very theraputic. I did not realize that we were not alone in how we were being dealt with. No return calls or emails. CI would not renew with us, instead they are trying to sell a new Curves to a former emplyee. After coming across this site I feel very blessed that they would not renew us. They were told about our door card readers that we had installed. I feel somewhat bad for this person trying to buy it, she will fail, and fail fast. I am very disapointed with how this site transformed from being helpfull to me, to how I started skimming through it instead the last few months, skipping certain posts when seeing who posted it. This site is great, don’t get me wrong, it most certainly helped my wife and I cope with our struggle, group therapy of sorts. I just feel bad that some of you have lowered your standards, allowing some of the people posting here to get you fired up when they have obviously not had the experience the rest of us have, and have no right defending CI. I almost find myself now getting very upset, I just am in shock over the way CI has dealt with our situation (I have not even begun to tell my whole story), and cannot imagine anyone realistically supporting CI. This is my first post, hope I can provide more later. My wife has contacted unhappy and we are awaiting his return call to help us. Thanks

  605. unhappy on April 8th, 2010 1:20 pm

    Small town,
    Don’t let the posters here that are pro Howie get to you as we all can tell that they obviously work for CI. I was glad that the site helped you get through what we all know was tough days and mental anguish. I would hope you will post your story here as we all would love to here your stories of how CI screwed you and good luck to your new club.

  606. Calbetzor on April 8th, 2010 4:21 pm

    On July 13, 2010, I will have completed my 5 year agreement. I received a touchy feely e-mail from CI congratulating me on 5 years and telling me to download some documents if I wanted to apply to renew for another 5 years. I live in an extremly small town and pay the minimum royalties and advertising because of the small member count. The documents states that I will have to pay the maximum royalties and advertising for everymonth if I renew and do not fulfill the next five years up to 40 some thousand dollars! I e-mailed them and asked if I was understanding this correctly. They e-mailed me back and said yes you will pay the maximum royalties and advertising fee if you do not complete the full 5 year agreement. Since this is such a small town, CI will never get the maximum royalties and advertising fee from this territory so this is just greed. They would make more off of me if I fail then if I don’t! I have lost all respect for them. I can not sign something so ludicrous so I am not renewing. I am moving out of my home this weekend because as you all can relate, I am drowning in debt. It does help to read the other stories.

  607. Closed in '07 on April 9th, 2010 2:53 pm

    I can’t wait to have my say. I will be flying soon to Miami to be deposed by CI Attorney’s. I can’t tell you how many sleepless nights I have spent going over the “Shoulda, Coulda, woulda’s.” Please say a prayer for me so I don’t lose my cool, or say more than I should. Please let me refrain from telling these greedy vulchers what a worthless piece of lying garbage I think Howie and his crew are. Give me the strength to hold my head high, look them in the eyes and not fall to their intimidation tactics. Amen. Wish me luck.

  608. unhappy on April 9th, 2010 3:22 pm

    We all wish you luck and please keep us informed as to how it goes.

  609. tickedoff on April 9th, 2010 3:40 pm

    Close in 07,
    I also had to close my club in October of 09. I tried everything to get CI to help me stay open. Their only suggertion was I could go on a percentage rate basis IF I would sign a new 5 year contract. My business was failing so how could I do that. I would not settle with them and refused to destroy MY equipment so I got my letter of abandonment and now thay want over $27,000 instead of the $2,500 they were willing to settle for. (future royaly and advertising fees) I had no furure and as far as abandoment they abandoned ME. Did it take 3 years for them to contact you? I figure in another 3 years there will be no more Curves. Why Miami? I thought that if it came down to a law suit we would have to go to Texas. I wish you all the luck in the world. Stand tall, keep your head up and stand your ground. You have many of us praying for you that everything will turn out right.

  610. tickedoff on April 9th, 2010 3:49 pm

    Small Town,
    My Curves was in a very small town also. I had to close my doors. I miss my girls a lot but do get to still see some of them when we happen to run in to each other in the grocery store. A few I have lunch with now and then. I meet a lot of new people and made a lot of new friends and I miss them. Don’t give in to any of their demands. All they want is every penny thaey can squeeze from us. I gave them 7 years of my life as I believed in them. As long as they got what they wanted every month (MONEY) they were happy. I never heard from anyone from corporate in the 7 years I was open. When I asked for HELP, NONE was given. Good luck in your new venture. Are you using YOUR equipment to open something else. I’ve been thinking about it.

  611. Small Town on April 9th, 2010 5:09 pm

    We are opening with all our same equipment. My wife stopped at our club to start removing Curves stuff and got nothing done because all the members were so excited to see someone there. I believe she misses the girls as much as they miss her. It is easier to want to be there now that we know we are no longer getting screwed by Curves. Hopefully Curves stays consistant with not calling us and doesn’t bother calling us to see who owns our new club.

  612. Closed in '07 on April 10th, 2010 10:51 am

    tickedoff,

    It took about 3 months for them to contact me after I closed my doors. They had the nerve to demand that I pay to freight the equipment that I paid for back to them. They also demanded an enormous amount of money to settle my contract. I told them I would get out my cutting torch and send it to them in hundreds of pieces, no problem where would you like me to send it and as for the money, I gave them Zarco’s phone number and told them to have a “blessed day”. I never got an answer. Since then I have given most of the pieces away to other clubs that could use it. Why Miami? We all had to fly to Waco for mediation, that was over 2 years ago. It was the biggest waste of time and money. CI tried to have us all deposed in Texas, but our attorney’s petitioned the court to have it here in Florida at our attorney’s office. If CI wanted the information they can come and get it. We have won 90% of all motions. So far I am really pleased with the results. As little as I can afford to hire attorneys, expert witnesses and pay for flights and hotels, I am not giving up, I’m fighting for all of us who were scammed and taken advantage of. Thank you for your prayers and well wishes.

  613. Wipedout on April 15th, 2010 10:41 pm

    Holy Shiva! Curves is opening 250 franchises in India.

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/blnus/19151991.htm

  614. Andres on April 16th, 2010 4:33 pm

    I see that this plague dbiraetsya in all countries. We had a club. We thank God it was closed. Now it poyavmlos Bulgaria Romania Ukraine Kazakhstan, people want more shopping-muck in Poland. The fact that we have come to this club, it’s just a bad dream and the nightmare that the glory of God is already behind us it was closed.

  615. WipedOut on April 17th, 2010 6:21 pm

    250 more sad stories about to unfold in India over the coming months.

  616. Julie on April 20th, 2010 2:12 pm

    I am currently in the process of possibly purchasing a curves franchise, after reading everyone’s comments and complaints this makes me second guess my decision.

  617. uhappy on April 21st, 2010 1:59 pm

    Julie
    DON’T DO IT IF YOU DO IT WILL BE THE WORST DECISION YOU HAVE EVER MADE!!!!!!! 98% OF THE CLUBS ARE GOING BROKE BECAUSE OF THE CORRUPT, ILLEGAL , UNETHICAL AND LIES FROM THE OWNER OF THE FRANCHISE HOWIE HEAVIN

  618. Just Say No! on April 21st, 2010 2:14 pm

    Julie, please consider this: Curves International/Gary Heavin has determined that they can make more money off the clubs that fail than those that succeed. From the clubs that close, he wants a $10,000 failure fee, plus maximum royalties and ad fees for the duration of the contract. That’s a lot more $$$ than he can make from an average club still in business. So, where do you suppose his focus and priorities are? Supporting the operating clubs is a nuisance. When my club was open, I got NO support from corporate. No return calls, no reply to e-mails.

    Now, CI is putting all of these “closing costs” in their franchise agreement. (These costs were NOT in my agreement, but CI is going after them anyway.) Be sure to read your franchise agreement very carefully, then ask yourself if you can really afford to do this.

    If my club’s failure was my “fault,” why isn’t Curves trying to find a new and better owner for my old territory? Instead, they are opening 250 clubs in India! I guess Heavin’s reputation hasn’t caught up to him there yet.

  619. Judy on April 21st, 2010 2:27 pm

    I also would advise anyone not to purchase a Curves Franchise. I don’t go along with all of the name calling on here, but rather believe what I’ve read in trade magazines that women are always wanting something different, ie…hairstyle, hair color, diet plan, shoes and exercise. I have 2 years left on my
    Curves agreement, but doubt very much that I can make it that long. Check into purchasing your own own equipment and opening under your own name if you are set on doing it. You will at least save yourself almost $600 a month by not getting tied up with Curves. Good luck.

  620. Former owner on April 21st, 2010 3:00 pm

    I am a former Curves owner, (closed Jan of this year), and I just wanted to report our experience so far. We never received to the $10000 closing fee letter, however we did receive the abandonment letter with claim to owe for royalty and advertising fees. We did receive a letter from the Illinois law firm claiming a lawsuit would ensue if the fees were not paid in full. We ignored the letter, and just recently started receiving phone calls from these people. When we did talk to the collector, or should I say lawyer, at the very end of the conversation they claimed we would not need to pay the entire amount. Anyway, I just wanted to pass this info along as this site has been helpful in dealing with this situation. We are in debt from the initial purchase, and I was willing to treat this as a note and pay off, however once they started claiming these future royalty and advertising fees, my attitude has changed in regards to CI…

  621. anon on April 21st, 2010 6:03 pm

    Just Say No! wrote that “From the clubs that close, he wants a $10,000 failure fee, plus maximum royalties and ad fees for the duration of the contract.”

    Can somebody please clarify. I thought the $10,000 failure fee was INSTEAD OF the future royalties and ad fees, not in addition to. Which is right?

    Judy wrote “Check into purchasing your own equipment and opening under your own name if you are set on doing it. You will at least save yourself almost $600 a month by not getting tied up with Curves.”

    There are programs for starting your own club that provide equipment and training like this one:

    http://www.franbest.com/2010/01/15/pace/

  622. Former owner on April 22nd, 2010 8:11 am

    anon-

    It was in addition to the future royalty and advertising fees!

  623. Closed in '07 on April 22nd, 2010 5:00 pm

    So, I’m sitting in downtown Miami waiting to be deposed pondering the lack of justice in our legal system. The only word I can come up with to some up this entire ordeal with my lawsuit against Curves and Howie is “UnFingbelieveable”.
    How can our Florida lawsuit go from 170 clubs to less than 50 and still shrinking practically overnight? Texas Federal Court.
    Every state has their own Franchise laws Florida has about 6 biggies and CI broke every single one of them. Based on that we have a good case right? Wrong, thanks to a magistrate and a Texas Federal Judge that ruled Texas law trumped out of state statutory claims. Florida Plantiffs (Us) contended that CI Fraudulently induced us to enter agreements to open a Curves, and oversaturated the market in breach of the Franchise Agreement.
    The district court concluded that since the injury from fraud occurred in Texas (where we signed our agreements), the laws of the plantiffs home state are inapplicable. This ruling however wrong, effectively cut our case off at the knees.

    Read for yourself at:
    http://www.haynesboone.com/files/Publication/9d6259b1-357f-4a92-8823-0391c371fe6b/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/7c00f7e5-8c26-4b11-9ead-1114e670ba9e/Franchise_Law_SMU.pdf .

    So what exactly does this mean to a plantiff? Those of us that were lied to?

    It means yes, you were lied to and yes you will win a fraud case. Yeah! Wait not so fast. Let me explain how the fraud process is going to go down with a Texas judge.

    The judge will agree that you were a victim of fraud. Yes it was a lie when they said you could be profitable with 150 members, yes they also lied about the cost to run a club, oh and sure they didn’t spend half of the advertising they promised, sorry about that. I understand you never saw an area rep. and you received no support. Yes, all that was indeed bogus. So let’s get you back solvent again. Your like ok, solvent would be good. The judge is going to tell CI give you back all the money that you invested opening your curves. $19,900.00 plus whatever receipts you can come up with. Let’s go with $35K. Now the judge is going to tell CI to give you your money back. We are going pretend that you never bought a Curves and CI never heard of you. Sounds great! Right up until the judge tells you to return to Curves all the profits you made for every year you were in business. What? I win a fraud case and I have to end up paying CI? Yes, you win the case but you lose in the end. What kind of justice is that? Now this doesn’t apply to resales I’m sure.
    I’m an original owner that made a profit the first three years I was open. It doesn’t matter that in 06 I made only $6,000.00. A profit is still a profit. Let’s not even talk about the $37,000.00 loss I took in ’07. And CI has the nerve to ask why I closed.
    So some might say, well hang in there Curves may settle at the last second. There is zero chance of CI settling. If they settle, every club in the world will sue. They will haul every owner individually into court and hammer them relentlessly. To quote our Govenor, Welcome to the NFL.

    So what is happening to all the people who are involved in the Fla suit? All of us are trying to find a way to resolve our disputes. Most of which are called
    “Walkaways”. As those of you know who closed your club already, CI is suing you for royalties and lost fees. Well a Walkaway is just that, CI is offering the deal. Stop litigation and we will drop the suit and both of us will walk away. Most of us are taking the deal. It sucks doesn’t it.

  624. Wipedout on April 23rd, 2010 1:59 am

    Incredible. Infuriating. And discouraging.

    Thanks for giving us the FIRST update I’ve heard on the case in years. We didn’t take part in the suit. Now I’m glad we didn’t. The stress from losing so much already was bad enough.

    If only Texas law applies, maybe a Texas Curves will win big and split the settlement with the other remainng clubs.

  625. Fitdude on April 23rd, 2010 1:49 pm

    Admin, I thought you might get a chuckle from this:

    http://franchising.doodig.com/2010/04/23/all-about-buying-a-curves-franchise/

  626. ADMIN on April 23rd, 2010 4:51 pm

    Thanks, Fitdude. The writer obviously has a deep understanding of the Curves franchise opportunity:

    “Keep in mind that Curves only allows one Curves shop in any given area… This regulation is what makes each Curves shop profitable. The market doesn’t become saturated with too many shops that are located too close together.”

    “…buying a Curves franchise is something that will give you years of fulfilling work experience and a chance to improve your own body as well!”

    After reading that, I seriously don’t know what you franchisees are whining about. This sounds pretty good to me!

  627. ADMIN on April 26th, 2010 10:10 am

    Curves SBA franchise loan failure rate is posted here:

    Failure Rates of the 10 Most Popular Franchises

    Comments welcome

  628. we're gone on April 26th, 2010 12:07 pm

    We closed in mid-April after having our Curves for more than 8 years — thank goodness that’s over. We took a bath, with 3 Curves opened within 2 miles of us. Now we’re all closed! We almost had this Curves sold, except when the prospective buyer started to look at the Curves franchise, and especially Howie — he said “no way.” Not only is the business bad — Howie offered us nothing and infact prohibited us from doing other things in Curves, i.e. Pilates, etc. when our competitors were all doing that! He also came out with Smart equipment, which was an endless problem (I’ve only heard from friends who have had it). There is nothing good written about Curves on line, and all terrible things about Howie that discourage people from getting involved in this organization.

  629. Looking Deeper on April 26th, 2010 12:16 pm

    OMG! 59 failed loans over a 10 year period! Thank you for the news flash! My lord, that’s almost 6 per year! Oh wait, when you look into it more, even a tiny little bit more, you see that it’s not so bad after all. Especially when you look at the individual loan amount (“average loan” amount posted in article) and TOTAL VALUE of the defaults (based on the “total amount distributed” X the “failure rate”):

    Subway $27,426,000
    Quiznos $72,925,000
    The UPS Store $19,128,000
    Cold Stone Creamery $56,079,000
    Dairy Queen $12,560,000
    Dunkin Donuts $21,632,000
    Super 8 $16,608,000
    Days Inn $23,952,000
    Curves $5,824,000
    Matco Tools $10,404,000

    So going by the WHOLE story, of the top ten most popular franchises, not only were Curves loans the second LOWEST in BOTH number of failed loans and individual loan value, but the total value of failed Curves loans was absolutely THE lowest by a WIDE margin at about half the amount of the next closest in the list (“winners” or “losers”). BTW This is the original ordering that the article had them in. The author didn’t list them “from worst to best” as you later did in your article. Perhaps because the % of failures doesn’t tell the whole story? For example, the “winner” with the lowest value of failed loans is still well over TWICE the value of failed Curves SBA backed loans, the average amongst the “winners” is FOUR times as much, and the “worst of the best” being FIVE times the value at $27,426,000 in failed loans. Thank you for your unbiased “reporting”.

  630. Good Luck on April 26th, 2010 1:50 pm

    we’re gone,

    “There is nothing good written about Curves on line, and all terrible things about Howie that discourage people from getting involved in this organization.”

    Even though many of us have had issues with CI, myself included, there is plenty of good still out there. Unfortunately you are 100% correct. The internet has enabled one-sided sites like this to flourish (just look what happens when anyone disagrees with the dogma here). How’s that saying go? It takes hearing 20 good things to counter each bad thing? Something like that. Anyway, the misinformation put out here has irreparably harmed and devalued ALL our clubs so they could promote their law suit. I’m sorry that you were so detrimentally effected too. Good luck.

  631. Just So You Know . . . on April 26th, 2010 3:16 pm

    Good Luck, I’m not involved in any lawsuit. But I expect to be since Curves insists on trying to get blood money out of this moneyless former owner. Gary Heavin’s relentless and heartless pursuit of people who had no choice but to close their doors — THAT is what is hurting Curves. And THAT is what is hurting you, too. This is not “misinformation” — it’s the facts.

  632. Unhappy on April 26th, 2010 4:47 pm

    You know Curves is a bad investment when banks won’t loan money in order for anyone to buy one!!! It isn’t sites like this that has done the damage to Curves but how Howie conducts his business. Just look at the closure rate, all the lawsuits, and what the general public is saying about curves. You can’t even give them away and its not just here in the states its a world wide problem. BUYERS BEWARE DON’T FALL FOR CURVES LIES, LIES ,AND MORE LIES FROM HOWIE.

  633. Elif on April 26th, 2010 6:36 pm

    Hi,
    I opened my club in June 2009 in Istanbul, Turkey and for the first few months my club seemed like it would be doing well but by November my membership numbers dropped to 0!!! At the time of my opening my club there were 5 Curves clubs in my city and now there is only 1 left; all the others had to close down including mine…I have been chasing CI since beginning of December, telling them I was having a tough time and that I would most likely end up having to close down. I haven’t been contacted by anyone offering any support, guidance or help so in the end I gave up trying and had to close down in March.
    Funny enough 4 months after my various emails I receive an email from their re-sale department telling me; and I quote, that so-and-so from Curves tried contacting me various times but was unsuccessful in her attempts reaching me…total load of crap! yes there was a lady at re-sale who emailed me and said she would contact but never ever did even though I chased her many times! So I reply back asking for proof as to when and how they tried to reach me as per their claims and the answer was ’sorry for your frustration but we promise that we will be in contact from now on.now tell us are you still open or closed?’ and I told them that after 4 months I couldn’t afford to wait for them to come back to me any longer and eventually I did have to close down…
    Now they sent me an email, using a very intimidating tone of voice as I expected of course, and told me that I abandoned my club which is a breach of contract ( A.K.A THE CARDINAL SIN – OH FOR GOD’S SAKE, GIVE ME A BREAK!) and that I owe them all the future royalty fees as well as the advertising fees, which come to a total of around 40K Dollars…Hahahahaaaa, really funny! I cannot believe that they actually have the nerves to ask me for the future advertising fees as CI have been telling all the Curves clubs in my country from the beginning that there would be no advertising done (whether local or national) in Turkey because there just wasn’t enough number of clubs to support just yet; so each club had to pay for their own advertising until now. It’s obvious that those half-wits that send franchisees like me those scary-sounding-emails have a template email that they copy and paste and they are not even smart enough to check their policies for individual countries.
    Anyways, I will not pay them a single penny and don’t care how many silly emails they will send me. It already cost me 150K Dollars so far and I had to sell my flat to pay off my loans to the bank. It makes me sick to think of the amount of money I threw away, we have a 7 month-old-baby and my husband, quite rightly, says that it could be her life-time education money had I not got into this business; how very stupid of me! I don’t even want to think about it because it makes me want to literally throw up!
    Does anyone know if they can sue me in Turkey? I know they claim that it was breach of contract from my part but I have been reading the contract thoroughly and it appears that the franchisee does infact have the right to terminate the agreement should CI not support them, offer them advise etc etc and I wonder if I would be OK to go down that route and refuse any payment
    I do feel for everyone that went/goes through the same nightmare but lets all look at the bright side; at least we’ve been there, done that : )))

  634. Elif on April 26th, 2010 6:37 pm

    I forgot to mention that on their last email, they sent 2 forms for me to fill in, sign and send back within 2 working days (why 2 working days, God knows!) : Club worksheet and Intend to Close Facility Form. But I won’t send them back until I am 100% sure that they OK to sign and send back. What did the other franchisees here do?

  635. Unhappy on April 27th, 2010 12:14 am

    Elif,

    Do not send or sign anything until you talk to me…… send email to admin. at this site with your phone number and I will contact you asap.

  636. Unhappy on April 27th, 2010 12:20 am

    Howie loses another motion in court………..of course if you listen to him he has never lost one yet Ha Ha Ha what a con and dishonest lier lier lier pants on fire and I hoe he burns in hell.

    Loislaw Federal District Court Opinions
    GO FIGURE, INC. v. CURVES INTERNATIONAL, INC. (S.D.Tex. 4-8-2010)
    CIVIL ACTION NO. H-09-2930.
    April 8, 2010

    Pending before the Court is the declaratory defendant, Curves International, Inc.’s (“Curves”) motion to dismiss under Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(3) or, in the alternative, to transfer venue under 28 U.S.C. § 1404(a) (Docket Entry No. 5). The declaratory plaintiff, Go Figure, Inc. (“Go Figure”) submitted a response to this motion (Docket Entry No. 7) and Curves filed a reply in support of its motion (Docket Entry No. 11). Having carefully reviewed the parties’ submissions, the record and the applicable law, the Court hereby denies Curves’ motion.

  637. Elif on April 27th, 2010 4:26 am

    as per your advice I sent an email to unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com

    I look forward to receiving your call

    thanks a lot!

  638. Jan on April 28th, 2010 5:12 pm

    I just spoke with an owner who is closing. She said that Curves, if they go after you for the closing fees, could go after your retirement. What are your thoughts on that? We have put everything we have in an LLC. Does this make a difference. Obviously, we jumped into something we had no clue about. This is a mess and we are only 9 months into our 5 year contract. Help!

  639. Elif on April 28th, 2010 5:49 pm

    I had to close after 7 months into my 5 year contract and am now being chased to pay something like 40,000 USD in 2 weeks (I have 10 days left! ) . I ignored their email, which was sent last week asking me to sign and send some papers (intend to close form etc) and today I received another email saying that if I don’t sign and send them back in 2 days my case will be sent to their legal department. I replied asking them to show me where exactly in the contract I was obliged to respond their inquiries in 2 days!!! Should I start worrying though about this legal department thing??? I did email my phone number to unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and am so desperate to hear any advice anybody can give!

    Jan – best of luck to you too!

  640. Elizabeth on April 29th, 2010 1:46 pm

    We were lied to by the former owners. Lied about the amount of members, lied about the expenses, lied about fee etc. We were given a two day window to make a decision about closing. I was told I would have to pay a nominal fee but they would not say what that was. Two questions. how would filing bankruptcy affect a LLC with Curves…would that make more sense or just go thru Cruves and do as they say to close it. Also has anyone thought about suing the people who sold the Curves to them based on their lies and not fully disclosing everything?

  641. Unhappy on April 29th, 2010 2:04 pm

    jan,
    Do not pay curves anything as unless you have signed the new contract that came out in March of 09. There is nothing in either the 5 or 10 year contract that before that time about th closing fee and further it is illegal for curves to go after franchise and advertising fees once you have closed your club. curves International and Howie use intimidation to get you to pay them more money knowing that you are going broke. Your LLC will not protect you as you signed the agreement using your personal name but don’t worry or lose sleep over it as there is basically nothing CI can do to you although you may have to fight them in court which does cost lawyers fees but wouldn’t you rather pay a lawyer than Howie? What you need to do is file complaints with the following agencies:

    TO ALL OVER SEAS CLUBS HERE ARE THE SITES YOU NEED TO GO TO TO FILE COMPLAINTS AGAINST CURVES INTERNATIONAL AND HOWIE.

    http://www.bbb.org/

    http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c

    http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml

  642. Unhappy on April 29th, 2010 2:07 pm

    Jan,
    If you would like to talk to me send an email to admin@unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com with you phone number and I will contact you .I have helped hundreds upon hundreds of owners go through the process and I’m sure we can help you too.

  643. Jan on April 29th, 2010 4:04 pm

    Unhappy,

    Just so others in our shoes will know, we did sign a contract after March. Ours was in August of 09. So, what now? We have talked to two Texas lawyers, one for the franchisee and one the franchisor….one said filing bankruptcy AFTER CI goes after us for the money will stop it, but it cost about $3000 for filing fees. It is so frightening. My husband does have a full time job, but we are not able to make our rent payment for Curves, barely able to pay payroll each month and cannot make our personal credit card payments at the moment. He is actually working one full time and 2 part time jobs. Trust me, I know we are not the only ones either struggling like this. I will forward my husband’s as well as my contact info to you. We appreciate all you out there is Curves Crazy Land who have helped us and each other. Something has got to give eventually. Oh, by the way, I may be doing wrong, but I am avoiding even talking to our DM as I feel they are full of BS Curves trash. All we hear from her is “get BR’s, put out lead boxes, advertise….yada yada yada”….. Is she or Curves going to front that advertising money. BRs are a joke as are lead boxes in our community.

    J

  644. unhappy on April 29th, 2010 8:26 pm

    Jan,
    I know what you mean and it won’t do any good to talk to the DM as you are so right they are full of shit. Don’t worry about having to file bankruptcy just yet but it is an option. Do not sign anything that curves sends you as they will try to trick you into signing a so called mutual release which only prevents you from suing them but they can still sue you. If need be I can put you in touch with the best lawyer in Waco who is familiar with all the lawsuits against curves and he may even take you lawsuit on contingency. Your husband sounds like a great guy so be sure to give him all the support you can and give him a big kiss for supporting you in this nightmare. Take care and God Bless.

  645. Jan on April 29th, 2010 10:51 pm

    Julie,

    Please don’t purchase. It will be the biggest mistake of your life.

    J

  646. unhappy on April 30th, 2010 12:23 am

    Elizabeth.

    You may have a case against both the previous owner and curves if you have proof they sold it to you deceptively. Do not follow curves closing procedures as they will lie to you and try to get you to sing the so called mutual release. Send an email to admin at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com with your phone number, it will be forward to me and I will be happy to give you advice on how to proceed.

  647. guest on April 30th, 2010 5:21 am

    Listen to unhappy:
    “You may have a case against both the previous owner and curves…
    “Do not follow curves closing procedures as they will lie to you and try to get you to sing the so called mutual release…
    “Don’t worry about having to file bankruptcy just yet but it is an option.
    “I will be happy to give you advice on how to proceed.”

    This guy is not an attorney. He did not go to law school. I doubt he’s read a law book much less any serious legal articles. He pretends he’s qualified to give legal advice but he is not. (Making a poor business decision, failing and getting sued are NOT qualifications.) Don’t you people think there’s a reason lawyers have years of study and have to pass a bar exam before they can dispense legal advice? Hello?

    Seriously, most of you failing Curves franchisees are now reading your agreements for the first time. Back when you still had money, you were too stupid or cheap to hire a franchise attorney. Now you are in trouble because of that stupidity and you are taking advice from a guy with a grudge and people from 3rd world countries with unintelligible english.

    Anybody stupid enough to get their legal advice from anonymous commenters on the internet deserve whatever they get. Wise up and hire an actual attorney.

  648. Elizabeth on April 30th, 2010 10:53 am

    Well “Guest”, I suppose you are too embarrassed by you ignorant comment to give a name. I am a college educated woman who did read the agreement. BUT when the previous owners lied about everything including member numbers, fees associated with the club etc. its a little hard to make ends meet when you are in the hole every month $1300.00. We received no back up from CI. We just want out and CI wants $40,000.00 to get out when our royalty fees have only been $195.00 per month. As for advice yes we have been reading everyone’s advice because I can not believe CI. As for an attorney yes they are expensive and perhaps we will have to go that route in the end, but for now it helps to get some advice from people who have been thru it.

  649. jd on April 30th, 2010 11:48 am

    Elizabeth states:

    ‘We were lied to by the former owners. Lied about the amount of members, lied about the expenses, lied about fee etc. We were given a two day window to make a decision about closing. I was told I would have to pay a nominal fee but they would not say what that was.’

    Okay, let’s look at this statement and think about the due diligence that was done:

    ‘Lied about the amount of members’ – Okay, when you are buying an existing store, wouldn’t it be prudent to get the company’s previous financials, look at their bank account to see how much money was going into the account (tells you how many members they had).

    ‘Lied about the expenses, lied about the fees, etc’ – Again, did you not look at bank statements, checks written for the last year to determine what their expenses were?? How about looking at leases and other items that you would be on the hook for?

    ‘We were given a two day window to make a decision about closing’ – This is what i would call a ‘red flag’, and probably should’ve been an indication to you walk away.

    ‘ I was told I would have to pay a nominal fee but they would not say what that was’ – Huge ‘red flag’, why would you sign when you don’t know what that nominal fee was?

    Of course, you could take unhappy’s advice and sue Curves (if you feel they sold it to you deceptively), but if you didn’t do those basic things of due diligence, an attorney will make you look very stupid up on a witness stand.

  650. Elizabeth on April 30th, 2010 12:27 pm

    We examined every bank statement they gave us and yes they had money going in… come to find out they were putting their own money in the cover expenses. As for the members, now that I have owned a Curves, there are ways to change the amount of members you have. We did everything we knew to check this out. I will say that we did not know enough to ask certain questions. When I speak of “two days to make a decision” that is from Wendy Law. When I notified CI that we had put our Club up for sale she then started to email me about closing. She gave me the two days.. she said a nominal fee. I have no desire to sue Curves I just want out without having to pay a ridiculous amount of money.

  651. unhappy on April 30th, 2010 12:46 pm

    Elizabeth,
    Don’t pay any attention to jd post. He is not a curves owner and we have found that it is best not to even respond to his posts as he lack any knowledge of how Curves works or how corrupt Howie is in the way he has mismanaged Curves International. Unfortunately we get people like him here on this site occasionally and if we res[pond to him he just continues to write his worthless opinion not based on fact. Most of us here just ignore his posts and don’t even read what he has to say as it is usually not relevant and derogatory.. Some people just like to make an ass out of themselves and he certainly does that. With that said I will respond in short order to your above post shortly.

  652. Julie on April 30th, 2010 1:18 pm

    Will anyone give me more detailed information on what happened to your franchise and why you were not successful and had to close. I hear alot about Curves not being supportive, what do you mean by that. Like I have stated before I am looking into purchasing an existing franchise and would like to hear what everyone has to say about why there business failed.

  653. guest on April 30th, 2010 1:30 pm

    There is a story here about how sellers can lie about their membership to inflate their sale price. I just found it again here:

    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-franchise-resale-buyer-alleges-fraud/

    The seller sold clubs and gave the real number of people who were being billed and the real revenue coming in. Thats what they based the sale price on. But 600 of those “members” had cancelled and just didn’t know they were still being billed because it just showed up on their statements as “merchant” When the new owners switched the billing and it showed up as Curves, these ex-members realized they were being swindled and came after the new owner.

    It’s pretty clear that a lot of franchisees are guilty of unauthorized billing – or at least billing without the members knowing they are still paying. How many of them cheat their members then cry foul when they are cheated?

  654. jd on April 30th, 2010 2:10 pm

    Poor unhappy, getting upset at me again.

    What i said to Elizabeth, should be a lesson for anyone looking into buying any existing company. She obviously didn’t go into the details of the bank statement, otherwise she would’ve seen that they were putting their own money in. If people don’t do the appropriate due diligence, then why attempt it at all. As for a point that I made earlier this week, why not ask the seller to escrow a certain portion of the purchase price, in case there is that ‘fraud’. Pay for it on your own, give them a nice interest rate, and make sure that it’s reviewed by an attorney to keep you safe in the event of fraud.

    As for unhappy, how often do you talk from both sides? First, you claim that Curves does little to nothing in the transfer process, so much so that you tried to say that the transfer fees would be illegal in most states, to now saying that Elizabeth could sue Curves for selling her the store deceptively.

  655. unhappy on April 30th, 2010 2:58 pm

    Elizabeth,
    When you bought the club as a resale the previous owner had to submit the total active members to CI as well as the latest projection sheet and the purchase price. CI would have known by that information that the previous owners were deceptively selling the club by inflating the numbers and if you had seen the projected sheet you could have compared the bank statement to see that it was wrong also. Howie and CI had a responsibility to inform you of that deception but of course Howie didn’t do that. Why? Because he is dishonest, lacks moral fiber, has no integrity, and is unethical in most of our opinions, Simply stated he is a crook and has no backbone or moral compass
    .As far as the two days decision ultimatum there is nothing in you agreement that would relate to that and you can take as long as you want to make a decision. It is just CI way of trying to intimidating you into doing what they ask .
    As far as the money they are demanding from you for closing whether it be the so called closing fee or future royalty and advertising fees they can not force you to pay them neither can they tell you what to do with the equipment. They will use every dirty trick to try to get you to but don’t believe it as it is illegal in the state of TX and Howie knows that. There are certain thing that you need to be aware of when closing and steps you need to protect yourself against and I would be more than happy to go over them with you, Pl;ease send the email to the admin at this email address with your phone number asking him to forward it to me and I will contact you asap. the email address is unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com

  656. Elif on April 30th, 2010 3:16 pm

    Did anyone refuse to pay the future royalty and advertising fees after closing and if so what are the consquences? can you just walk away by not paying anything or do CFW take you to court?
    Also, does the answer depend on the country of the franchisee as am from Turkey and the agreement I signed states that any law suit will take place in the UK,as opposed to the US
    Any past experiences on similar situations are much appreciated

  657. unhappy on April 30th, 2010 3:45 pm

    Julie,

    Every owner has different reasons for closing basically because they were losing money but all owners have the common complaints with curves International and the way Howie has mismanaged the business. In most successful franchises the franchisor builds the business with revenue streams meant to help the franchisee make money but this is not the case with Curves. Howie way of doing business is where all the money goes to him and CI not to the franchisee. A prime example of this is how Howie expects you to buy merchandise with the Curves logo at ridiculously high prices and than to give them to your members as an incentive to workout at your club. Howie tells you that it is good advertising but you pay an advertising fee based on a percentage of net income but you never see any adds for curves since 2003. Furthermore when you do order from Howie’s company Ideas in Action they are usually out of stock and most items are on back order and way over priced. Another prime example of this is when they came up with a nutritional bar that were sold in the clubs. Owners bought them for 50 cents and were able to sell them for a dollar. Owners couldn’t keep enough in stock and were making an extra 2 to 3 hundred a month on them. Howie saw that and decided to sell them to discount stores cheaper that owners could buy them for. Once they showed up in the stores the members became upset with owners as the members felt the owners were overcharging them. It created huge problems for the owners. Another example of this would be when CI offered the vitamins and supplements at a huge discount to owners. Most owners bought them only to find out that they were expiring in 30 days and had to be thrown out and could not be sold. Howie refused to refund any of the owners money for them. these type of examples just go on and on.

    Another common thread to why so many have closed is because Howie does not enforce or protect owners territory rights. Ever since 2003 he has allowed franchises to open on the edge of their territory. This has cause major problems for owners who were built in then center of the territory as the neighbor would advertise in your territory which is protected under your contract and yet when you complained Howie refused to do anything about the complaint. Howie refuses to give any kind of support to the owners which you have the right as a franchise to expect.

    In any franchise you have an agreement between the franchisor and the franchisee which state the obligation of both parties and you have an expectation of that to be followed but with Howie that is not the case. You are left on your own and if the neighboring club doesn’t follow the guidelines such as offering different equipment such as tread mills and the like unless you do they have an advantage over your club and in metro areas they were sold within a mile apart.

    This is just a few of the reasons you should not under any circumstance buy a Curves franchise. There are many more reasons but before you buy one take the franchise agreement to a lawyer and have him check it out for his opinion. I will guarantee you they will advise you not to as it is one of the worst agreements any franchise has and I haven’t heard of any lawyer who would recommend you to sign that agreement. You would be much better off if you bought the equipment off of someone that has closed and started your own women fitness center or talk to the owner of the club you are interested and tell them you want to buy that club but not the curves franchise. Most owners who are trying to sell would gladly jump at the chance to sell you it with out the curves name as it will save them 5,000 dollars in transfer fees if they don’t have to go through curves.

  658. unhappy on April 30th, 2010 4:23 pm

    Eilf,
    Many owners have refused to pay the closing fee, follow the so called closing procedures and the demand for the remaining advertising and royalty fees. Yes at first Curves did try to take owners to court over all of this but owners counter sued and won so now he has Howie has quit taking them to court and has had to hire a collection firm located in ILL to try to intimidate owners into paying Howie’s demands. No one is intimidated by Howie any more because of all the information that is on the web about his business tactics. You need to read your contract as you maybe under one of the new contracts which is owned by a master franchise in your country. If that is the case it is even more crooked than Howie and you will need to find a lawyer in your area who does franchise law. If that is the case have your lawyer contact the lawyers in the States that have represented owners for advice and how to handle the situation, Make sure you don’t sign anything you receive from them until you contact a lawyer and keep good records of all information you receive from them such as the date , the time, and who you spoke to. Make sure you contact all other curves owners in your area and join forces against CI as you will have strength in numbers if you have to go to court.

  659. guest on May 1st, 2010 10:43 am

    unhappy writes “…at first Curves did try to take owners to court over all of this but owners counter sued and won so now he has Howie has quit taking them to court … join forces against CI as you will have strength in numbers if you have to go to court.”

    For the reality of the situation, read the comment above from “Closed in ’07 on April 22nd, 2010 5:00 pm”

    “So, I’m sitting in downtown Miami waiting to be deposed pondering the lack of justice in our legal system. The only word I can come up with to some up this entire ordeal with my lawsuit against Curves and Howie is ‘UnFingbelieveable’.
    How can our Florida lawsuit go from 170 clubs to less than 50 and still shrinking practically overnight?”

    Strength in numbers? The truth is that you will pay the lawyers a bunch of money and the best you can hope for is that they’ll let you walk away without paying your closing fee. Wouldn’t it make more sense just to negotiate down the closing fee and walk away without going through the legal ordeal?

  660. unhappy on May 1st, 2010 2:45 pm

    To all owners past and present,

    Remember there are plenty of lawyers that are taking these cases on a contingency where we don’t have to pay a dime in legal fees and if you need help in finding one let me know and I will put you inn touch with one.

    Also keep in mind to just disregard any of the guests posts as they are certainly irrelevant and in all likely hood a Howie plant. By responding to “it’s”post all we do is encourage them and if we ignore them they will in time go to some other board to get their kicks.

  661. guest on May 1st, 2010 3:36 pm

    “there are plenty of lawyers that are taking these cases on a contingency where we don’t have to pay a dime in legal fees”

    Really? Name three.

    Why would a legitimate lawyer go up against Curves on contingency? Why would they spend their time on a longshot gamble at getting some skimpy settlement rather than billing their hours and getting paid by actual clients? Because a single Curves settlement is going to be such a windfall? Please…

    In the FL lawsuit the 170 plaintiffs have shrunk to just 50. Did those attorneys work on total contingency? Do you think 120 plaintiffs just walked away without paying a cent to their attorneys?

    I’m looking forward to your list of lawyers who are willing to go up against the highly paid Curves attorneys on their own dimes. Please post the list so all can benefit.

  662. unhappy on May 1st, 2010 4:21 pm

    GREAT NEWS FOR SOME CURVES OWNERS.
    Many states have passed statutes which supersede the Curves franchise agreement in relationship with curves including the area of termination and renewal of ones franchise. Also many states have new statues which limit curves ability to restrict owners activity after the franchise agreement has either ended or terminated by closing. Here is a list of those states: Arkansas, California. Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa , Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Jersey, South Dakota, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin Montana, Florida, Oklahoma, and North Dakota. Many other states are following suit as there has been so many complaints against curves International and Howie.
    If you are from any of the above states and have had or are presently having difficulty with intimidating, unethical, immoral or what you may consider harassing tactics from Curves you may want to contact a lawyer asap. It appears this will open up even more valid lawsuits against curves and Howie.

  663. unhappy42 on May 1st, 2010 5:05 pm

    Julie,

    I for one am a fairly “new” owner and would advise strongly against you buying a Curves franchise. If for nothing else, Curves does not have enough to offer women on a long term basis to keep them happy. That is the least of the problems though. Our service fees are fairly high, monthly rates are higher than most although we only offer one type of service as apposed to those offering swiming pools, treadmills, personal trainers, etc., there is NO support. I have not once had someone in my club…all I get is spend more money on advertising, which there is not enough of to even put food on our table at times. My husband is working THREE jobs to keep us afloat and I feel we are probably one of the lucky ones since we are not losing our home, although our credit has gone to pot becuase we cannot afford to pay all our bills. I am waiting for the day our doors will be closed. I would love to find a buyer, but doubt we will be able to although I have been told many times over we have one of the most beautiful Curves facilities located in a fairly new building. It is a sad, sad situation. I wanted this so much and love what I get to do in my Curves, love my ladies dearly and have made some of the best friends from that place, but it will all go down the drain soon….we are sure of it. Please, please think twice about doing this. It is hell on wheels and it drives very fast. You cannot get out of the way once your in it.

  664. unhappy on May 1st, 2010 8:37 pm

    Hello unhappy42,
    We hear you loud and clear and just hope that Julie listens to the people who have owned clubs and know the truth about Howie and Curves. Once you have been there and lived through the nightmare we have a responsibility to inform other individuals to stay clear and not make the worst decision of their life. I just pray they listen as you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Fortunately many unsuspecting individuals have found the site and made the right choice because of all horror stories told about Howie and Curves on this site. Real life experiences from owners certainly are telling about whether or not curves is a good investment. Unfortunately we always have a few of the commentators who try to stick up for Howie for what ever reason and as we have said before it’s just best not to even respond to their uninformed, stupid and idiotic posts. As you can tell when we do this it infuriates them and makes us all laugh. So to them we all say BLAH, BLAH, BLAH

    Have a great weekend unhappy42 and God Bless you and your family

  665. guest on May 2nd, 2010 6:20 am

    Question for the group: What are the legal fees that you’ve been quoted (and/or charged) for help navigating your closing and/or bankruptcy? How about with potentially suing or suing Curves?

    Is anyone working with an attorney on a contingency or performance basis?

  666. unhappy on May 2nd, 2010 1:29 pm

    In the near future we will be starting a new campaign to shed light on the atrocities that are being done to Curves owners by Howie so stay tuned.

    By curves owners working together to send a strong message to Howie we are helping to make sure that one million women continue to get stronger.

  667. unhappy on May 2nd, 2010 2:27 pm

    Julie,

    In order to make an informed decision about buying a Curves franchise you really need to listen to what the actual owners are saying about the clubs not what Pro-Howie supporters are spouting on this board. I’m sure you understand that 99% of us here have all been financially hurt by buying into the dream by the con-man Howie and certainly have an obvious agenda but one must question the naysayers agenda and of course that is why we don’t respond to them or there questions. But so you have some actual factual information here are some results of polls that were taken over the last 6 month or so of current owners.

    On the question of :
    Have you considered selling your Curves? A whopping 90% said yes

    If any owners are actually making money? 60 % of owners said no

    This question should be a real eye opener to you as well as Howie ……….. Do you plan on renewing your franchise agreement? A whopping 86% said NO

    Are you making money from your Curves income? 75% said no

    Keep in mind Julie these results are not owners that were closed but current owners with clubs that were still open at the time the polls were taken. Now I’m sure the naysayers are going to try to bash this post as question number 2, If any owners are actually making money and question number 4, Are you making money from your Curves income seem to have different results as one is at 60% and the other is at 75%. With out owing a Curves I’m sure naysayers will have a hard time explaining that but there is a simple explanation but just fun since we all know they read our post let them explain it.

  668. unhappy on May 2nd, 2010 2:30 pm

    To the naysayers,
    Blah, Blah,Blah, No one is responding to your posts ha, ha , ha…………….

  669. jd on May 2nd, 2010 4:46 pm

    Unhappy, you don’t respond, because you can’t answer the questions. I think it’s pretty obvious that you again are exagerrating your stance to make you sound so important.

    Show me the statute in IL that was written, I’d like to read it. Also, you keep mentioning more lawsuits against ‘Howie and Curves’. You should already know that Howie was dismissed from the big lawsuit.

  670. blah blah blah on May 3rd, 2010 2:17 am

    It’s actually very easy for your detractors to explain your “results”. Even the best scientific polling is open to interpretation and your results are from hardly scientific polls and are of just one group of owners and with such a low response rate (average from the polls you used is just 85 respondents, with some polls having as few as 58, and only 54 for the November 2006 poll) making them utterly worthless and wholly unreliable. First, for an example of why your “information” is as useless as ever, a poll of the same small owners group that you DIDN’T quote but which is phrased very similarly to the “thought about selling” one is this one on doing 24/7:

    June 2009
    Have you considered converting your club to a 24×7 OR Extended Hours Club? (With key-card access)

    Responses
    Choices/Votes/%
    No – My Hours are just fine. 42 45
    I would like to be an extended hours club. 31 33
    I am currently an extended hours club. 2 2
    I would like to be a 24×7 club. 15 16
    I am currently a 24×7 club. 2 2

    If we were to place the same value on this that you put into the other polls, one would believe that 55% of owners have already or are planning on adding key card access to their clubs. This is hardly the case as the actual number is barely in the single digits (if that!). However many have “thought” about it. ANY intelligent business person “thinks” about their options. That brings us to your first “poll” question:

    Have you considered selling your Curves?

    June 2009
    Choices/Votes/%
    No Way! 8 7
    I have thought about it occasionally. 51 50
    Yes! I am going to sell soon. 14 13
    I’ve been trying to sell for a while! 28 27

    In the middle of one of the worst economic years in recent history you think it is “telling” that many owners “thought” about selling? I think you’d be hard pressed to find ANY business owner who WASN’T thinking about getting out of business last summer (or this summer for that matter)!

    Aug 2009
    Choices/Votes/%
    Do you plan on renewing your franchise agreement?
    Yes 10 13
    No 62 86

    Again, third quarter of the worst year for pretty much everyone I know in ANY business, and you bet, many, like me, have decided that despite the fact that we have a profitable club, that we will NOT be renewing. Why not? Because, after over 9 years, I’m tired of THIS business and am ready to move on to something new or develop some of my OTHER business interests further. That says more about me than about this business. BTW, for most owners who don’t have any business sense, they won’t have a choice to renew since they will have lost their business long before then. Mostly because they are unwilling to make the tough choices and run their business like a business.

    November 2009
    Choices/Votes/%
    losing money, more than $500 per month 24 35
    losing money, less than $500 per month 7 10
    breaking even 14 21
    making a little profit, less than $5000 per month 18 26
    making sufficient profit, more than $5000 per month 5 7

    July 2009
    Choices/Votes/%
    Losing money. More than $500 per month. 12 20
    Losing money. Less than $500 per month. 9 15
    Breaking even. 15 25
    Making a little profit. Less than $ 5000 per month. 18 31
    Making sufficient profit. More than $5000 per month. 4 6

    April 2009
    Choices/Votes/%
    Profit 31 24
    Loss 51 39
    Even 39 30
    Closing 8 6

    November 2006
    Choices/Votes/%
    Losing money. More than $500 per month. 24 35
    Losing money. Less than $500 per month. 7 10
    Breaking even. 14 20
    Making a little profit. Less than $ 5000 per month. 18 26
    Making sufficient profit. More than $5000 per month. 5 7

    In April 45% were losing money. In July, 35%. In November, 45% again. And back in November 2006, which by all accounts was a “good year”, 45% there too. Hmmm… maybe these “polls” aren’t worth all that much when trying “to make an informed decision” after all, huh?

    Don’t forget, as most here will admit – most of these re-sales WAY overpaid for their business. If you go into a Curves with little or no debt (easily done now as many are selling at bargain basement prices), keep your overheads low (rent being the worst for most but easy to get on the cheap right now since the commercial real-estate market is so horrible), keep your payroll down (with double digit unemployment, people are BEGGING to work) you can handily make a profit. THAT is all true for any business.

    But all “unhappy” will hear is “blah blah blah blah blah”. Very sad for unhappy.

    If you want to feel all warm inside about how badly you’ve done too, and if you will feel better knowing that you are not alone, join the “pity party” and you can listen to him rant about all the people “sticking up for Howie” when in reality we just think this guy is a twit too. But when trying to “make an informed decision” you could listen to him tell you how to fail – he’s closed how many of his clubs? Or maybe, just maybe, start listening to people who are still in business making money. Blah blah blah LOL

  671. Closed in '07 on May 4th, 2010 3:17 pm

    Just to add to the mayhem here, I paid my law firm in Miami $3500.00 up front in 2006 then around $600.00 per year for additional expenses. That fee doesn’t include $2500.00 for an expert financial witness that you will need should you decide to continue and not walkaway. Nor did it include plane flights and car rentals to Waco for mediation, the same to arrive in Miami to be deposed. If I had continued this I would have had to come up with the money to fly and stay in Texas for a trail. A plaintiff could end up spending $10,000.00 easily and that’s not including lost wages from taking time off from work. Still, it was a deal considering CI was counter suing me for lost royalties and advertising fees.

    On a lighter note: I have two Purple neon Curves Raceway signs I’ll give anyone for free, just come get them. A $5,000.00 value. hahaha

  672. endofmyropeisanoose on May 4th, 2010 7:46 pm

    What can I do to get them to take my franchise away from me? I see breaking the rules as the only answer, as I will not pawn this sink-hole off on someone else.
    I’ll do 24/7. I’ll sell Weight Watchers. I’ll add a treadmill! If they take it away…..do you still pay a penalty? Seriously……I’m exhasted exahsted exhausted……TIRED!

  673. unhappy on May 4th, 2010 9:55 pm

    endofmyropeisanoose,

    send an emil to adim at at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and he will forward it me with your phone number and will get the rope off your neck

  674. jd on May 5th, 2010 9:39 am

    But Closed, if you listen to unhappy, you would’ve easily won the counter-suit, so why settle?

  675. Closed in '07 on May 5th, 2010 10:53 am

    End of my rope,

    Here is my advice, take it for what it is worth. If I could go back to say 2005 when I knew member attrition was a business model that CI had no answer except playing silly circuit games I would have done the following. Here is my hind-sight, shoulda, coulda, woulda’s.
    Stop buying anything from Ideas in Action. Stop giving your members anything except a smile and a welcome to Curves. Save every dime you can. Let go as many employees as possible. Put in tread mills, elliptical and spinning bikes. Add 2 lb. hand weights next to the running squares. Get 3lb exercise balls and have a ball toss. Do anything to Re-invent your Curves, offer an after hour Pilate s or yoga class.
    When CI contacts you about it, tell them you have no idea what they are talking about, tell them to have a blessed day and hang up.
    Good luck to you.

  676. S on May 5th, 2010 1:10 pm

    We had hand weights, balls, medicine balls, hoola hoops, stretch and strengthen classes and several years ago, when one of the Area Reps came to visit (I wasn’t there, and she never came back),she told my manager “you gotta do what you gotta do to stay in business.” They knew these businesses were going down hill. We, at one point, had 1500 members, but when we closed last year, we had about 150. We couldn’t give the place away. We also had lost members when Howie decided that his religious believes (not giving $$ to the Koman foundation, or anyone else who supported a pro-choice mnovement) was more important then US losing members. And, I don’t believe for a moment, that he’s religious. I think it’s a big front to make him look like a good guy!

  677. S on May 5th, 2010 1:16 pm

    And…..by the way, we had our Debbie Rose come to a meeting set up for all the local franchisses several years ago. We asked for her help because all of our businesses were failing. One member asked “who made money last year, raise your hands.” And guess how many hands were up?? —NONE When we tried to talk with her about our difficulties,her response was “I only want to hear positive things.” I guess that was the best CI could offer in the way of help and support. I think our contract said they were suppose to support us?????

  678. Elif on May 5th, 2010 4:50 pm

    If Curves doesn’t fullfill their obligations under the contract then the franchisee has a right to terminate it, right?

  679. Closed in '07 on May 6th, 2010 12:27 pm

    No Elif, you cannot terminate your contract. All you can do is sue CI for fraud. Yes they lied. Look over your Franchise Agreement, See all the places you signed and initialed? Read them over and try to find where in that agreement CI says they are responsible for anything. The wording is specifically designed to make you liable for all and hold CI innocent in the event you are a lousy business person. Look we all got screwed, and we are all just as guilty for not questioning the agreements we were signing. During depositions, CI attorney asked me….Did you hire an attorney to review your UFOC and Franchise Agreement? Well um no. Did you have anyone review these documents? My financial advisor. And what did he advise? He said it was pretty one sided but par for the course. In the end it was my decision to sign it. The news is grim but these are the facts and Texas state law sides with CI. There was a reason they had us all sign those documents at club camp in Waco.

  680. Elif on May 6th, 2010 4:25 pm

    Hi Closed ’07,
    I wonder if CFW uses the same contract overseas. In the one I signed, it clearly states that the franchisee has a right to terminate the agreement if Curves commits breach of contract. And Breach of Contract is defined by CFW failing to fullfill certain provisions (these provisions are listed in the agreement) I wonder if the agreements are drafted differently in the US and overseas? But then again why would they be?

  681. unhappy on May 6th, 2010 4:34 pm

    Elif and closed in o7,
    First closed in 07 Elif contract is totally different than the contract you or I signed as it appears when he signed his contract it was with a master franchisor that had bought the rights to resale curves franchises from curves. Howie went this route when he realized that clubs were closing all over the US and that lawsuits were being filed by the hundreds against him including the group action lawsuit. His contract does give him some outs but it does require arbitration in England and any legal fight has to faught in Englands courts not the courts in Waco TX. If you will read your contract you have the right to mediation before a lawsuit can be filed here in the US. So Elif the best advice we can offer you is to contact a lawyer who practies law in England..

    Elif your contract is similar to ours but diffenrent is significant ways one of wich does give your the right to terminate your contract if you can prove that the master franchisor (who appears to have bought the rights from a new corporation out of Las Vegas Nv. called CFW group) has broken any of section 7A in your contract. Unfortunatly Elif you must fight this in the courts in England or Wales accouding to your contract and must first go to arbitration there in fornt of a arbatrator who has at least 5 years in franchise law.

  682. Closed in '07 on May 6th, 2010 9:24 pm

    There you go Elif, I stand corrected. Most Lawyers here, I don’t know about across the pond, but most should offer a free consultation. It wouldn’t hurt to have one read over your contract and at least point you in the right direction.

  683. Mitch on May 7th, 2010 5:08 am

    All,
    I recently spoke with Robert and he gave me great advice with my club that recently closed in Virginia.
    Thanks Robert you gave me a new outlook.
    BTW Kiss my ass C/I

    Mitch

  684. Elif on May 8th, 2010 4:28 pm

    better than coming all the way to Texas, I’d say : )

    I am indeed consulting a British lawyer who also happens to be a good family friend.

    I didn’t realise my agreement was with a master franchiser. I spoke to the guys in Waco Texas when I was initially interested in the business about 2 years ago and I thought they were the ones who signed the agreement with me.

    I am a she by the way : )

    Best

  685. unhappy on May 9th, 2010 1:13 pm

    Elif,
    It appears your contract is with a new corporation out of Nevada called the CFW group which is different than the contracts signed in the US. If it’s not a master franchise it was just before Howie started selling them but it appears to be a Curves franchise sold through the CFW group. It will be interesting what your lawyer has to say. Make sure the lawyer has franchise experience as it is very important that they know franchise law. If your lawyer wants to talk to the lawyers in the states let me know and I will provide you with the contact information.

  686. wishiweredreaming on May 10th, 2010 4:59 pm

    I purchased a resale in 11/07. I closed 4/16/10. Small town, bad economy, getting in mostly retirees as younger gals felt it didn’t challenge them enough, competition with a 24/7 gym. You pick it. My story is short – CI took 2.5 years of my life, I am $20,000 in debt (not nearly as much as some, but that’s huge for me), and 20 lbs. overweight from the stress. My equipment was donated to a women’s correctional facility. I don’t want to damage a fellow area Curves (and yes there are still some open close to me), so I’ve tried to do things right. I’m sure CI won’t care – they will put me in the same pile as everyone else and go after me for the remaining 2.5 years. Beat me more, please. How is everyone handling their CC debt? Any gems of thought there? I’m just sick to death of worrying when the next shoe will fall. Truly wish this were all a dream….

  687. George on May 12th, 2010 10:00 am

    Has anyone in Australia closed or tried to close a Curves? How did you do it? What did it cost? Did you have a 10 year agreement?

  688. unhappy on May 12th, 2010 11:42 am

    ■wishiweredreaming
    What debt? You do not owe curves anything and it is illegal for them to try to collect future royalties or add fees once you have closed. They will however try to intimidate you into paying just don’t do it.

    George,
    Yes many have closed in Australia. To find out how and what to expect send an email to to adim at at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and he will forward it to me. I will contact you asap.

  689. jd on May 12th, 2010 4:08 pm

    ‘You do not owe curves anything and it is illegal for them to try to collect future royalties or add fees once you have closed. They will however try to intimidate you into paying just don’t do it’

    If them asking for future royalties and ad fees is illegal, then why didn’t the Curves counter-suit get tossed out of court. I believe that ‘Closed in 07′ stated that they thought they made a good settlement because Curves was asking for future royalties and ad fees.

    By the way, BMM has a story about a LaQuinta hotel that had to pay the franchisors over $100k in liquidated damages (but then again Unhappy says they are illegal). Oh and the liquidated damages clause was upheld on appeal.

  690. unhappy on May 14th, 2010 2:29 pm

    Well, Well, Well, Howie lost again in court with Go Figure on both of his motions. One for dismissal and one for change of venue. Both were denied by the judge. Can you immaginve how much Howie has had to spend on legal feees alone this year? If you do the research on pacer you will find that Howie never uses the same lawyer but instead hires a different lawyer for each law suit. We have heard that its because he never pays the lawyer for the full bill and that Howie is running out of lawyers who will represent him in TX.

  691. jd on May 14th, 2010 4:16 pm

    Your right Unhappy, he’s using a different attorney, BUT they are from the same law firm (Haynes & Boone), so what’s wrong with that?

    You try to make a huge deal out of the smallest things. He’s attorneys in the franchise case specialize in franchising law, the case against Go Figure isn’t about franchising.

    I guess if you have a tax question that you have that your accountant can’t answer but their their partner can (who is more versed in taxes), then you would consider it a big deal too.

    You really should check your facts more, or maybe not, because you keep hurting your credibility.

  692. American Nightmare on May 14th, 2010 4:45 pm

    American Dream, not! It has been more like a nightmare. My wife and I got into Curves in 2003. Today we are bankrupt and our house is in foreclosure. I remember at a convention once that Gary was preaching about not sending our customers to collection if they don’t pay. Because Curves people are “nice people”. Well where did the nice people go? We are in the process of trying to close our last club and we have been told that we will be responsible for future royalties and closing fees. We are bankrupt! Where is the compassion? Is this an isolated case. Unfortuanely, my daughter and sister-in-law(both Curves owners) also had to file bankruptcy.

  693. unhappy42 on May 14th, 2010 4:49 pm

    Have to let you all know, Robert is helping us with a wealth of information regarding our club and our problems. We cannot even pay our rent now due to insufficient funds. Its either rent or our personal loans we took out in order to get into this mess called Curves. We will most likely close our club very soon. Not that we did not try, but what can we do? It is a very hard decision, but our family has to come first and food on the table is a priority for most of us.

    Please, please, please….anyone considering buying into Curves, DON’T DO IT. Open your own fitness facility. No franchise fees, advertising fees (what a joke…I might still be able to be open if I could use that money to advertise for myself in my own target market), no restrictions on what I can/cannot do in my club, and I could add things my ladies love such as a tanning bed, a small boutique, a massage therapist…..treadmills, weight training classes, yoga, the list goes on and on. Sad thing is that my facility would handle all of this, but Curves tells me NO, NO, NO. It is not allowed. When will they get a clue as to WHY we keep losing membership? Even I get bored doing the same workout and watching those poor girls go around in a circle all the time. I know if I had just stayed a member, I would definitely still not be there. I wish I could have had the foresight into this before I bought. Lesson definitely learned, but hopefully others can learn from our mistakes. AND yes, I DID make a mistake in buying into this, so I don’t need to hear others try to tell me its my fault. It is so sad how others on this site are so judgemental. Until you are in the person’s shoes/club and know their family life, no one has the right to judge another. EVERYONE’s situation is unique.

  694. Don on May 14th, 2010 6:00 pm

    I don’t post here often, but after reading JD’s worthless post I decided I had to post.
    First off it is apparent he is connected with Curves International in some fashion, but he refuses to admit it. Secondly, I question why he is even posting. As he readily admits he has never owned a curves franchise or business for that matter. He tries to put down owners who have legitimate complaints against Curves and Gary Heavin.
    I wish the administration would delete his posts as they did for Carol Cross as he is continuing to stifle the discussion.
    I have done the research on the hundreds of lawsuits that have been filed, and unhappy is absolutely correct. Heavin has used different lawyers for almost every lawsuit brought against him. They are not from the same firm as JD tries to insinuate.
    I guess we should all follow unhappy advice and not respond or read his worthless posts as he (JD) is just another Wessel like Gary Howard Heavin.
    To all owners here looking for help on how to deal with Curves International don’t even pay attention to his posts and send an email to admin.@unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and ask it to be forwarded to unhappy, and I’m sure you will get the correct and valuable advice.

    Don,
    By the Sea

  695. rlay on May 14th, 2010 7:26 pm

    unhappy42

    Thanks for your kind words and it was my pleasure to help you. It is time we all work together to put a stop to Gary Howard Heavin’s intimidating tactics to try to extort more money from owners who have lost so much as a result of his mismanagement of Curves International.

  696. Unhappy on May 15th, 2010 1:35 am

    TO All Present and Past Owners of a Curves Franchise

    We have all seen the devastation that comes from owning a franchise that is run by a corrupt, unethical, immoral, and crooked owner such as we all believe Howie to be. We have banded together on this site to get the word out about this company so others won’t make the same mistake we all have by falling for the lies, and dishonest treatment by the sociopath, Howie. The number of clubs closing is not only disheartening but frightening when you stop to consider how many people have lost everything including their homes and retirement funds and they continue to close at an alarming rate. it is now time to start a campaign to lobby our government officials to change and strengthen the laws on franchising for the franchisee. I am suggesting that everyone write not only the President but their senator and congressmen as well. If you click on the sites listed below it will take you to where you can send an email to our elected officials and we need to tell them about our experiences we have had with Curves and demand that the franchise laws be changed.

    Email via: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
    [Note: emails are limited to 500 characters, but that is more than enough to make the key points.]
    [Note: the WH email page requires a U.S. State and Zip Code to submit.]

    Feel free to copy your congressional representatives in the House and Senate.

  697. Unhappy on May 15th, 2010 2:00 am

    Here is the sites where you can go to find your Senator and House Representative.

    hhps://writerep.house.gov/writerrp/welcome.shtml

    http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

  698. Unhappy on May 15th, 2010 2:06 am

    Sorry the US House of Representatives is as follows:
    https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

  699. guest on May 15th, 2010 7:33 am

    “If you do the research on pacer you will find that Howie never uses the same lawyer but instead hires a different lawyer for each law suit.”
    “unhappy is absolutely correct. Heavin has used different lawyers for almost every lawsuit brought against him.”

    Companies with lots of litigation often spread work out to as many good law firms as possible. Why? Because each of those firms then cannot accept clients who want to sue them because it would be a conflict of interest. They then have to settle for 2nd or 3rd tier attorneys. Spending a few thousand dollars each with multiple firms to keep them from representing future plaintiffs is a smart business move, isn’t it? Something a shrewd, multimillionaire with excellent legal counsel might do, right?

    Doesn’t that make more sense than unhappy’s claim that Heavin is so stupid he’s alienating all the lawyers in Texas? Does anyone really believe he’s stupid?

    JD should stop posting? Why? Because he actually checks things out and posts facts?

    unhappy continues to state his opinions as fact and wants you to believe Heavin is both scheming, crafty AND stupid. You might question his ethics, but how stupid can he be?

    You sure you want to make that claim? After all, he got your money…

  700. guest on May 15th, 2010 7:59 am

    PS Anyone else find it ironic that unhappy criticizes Curves for deleting comments they disagree with from the internal forums, but unhappy and Don by the sea keep urging the administrator to ban people who disagree with them?

    Not surprising, but ironic.

  701. jd on May 15th, 2010 1:49 pm

    Don, obviously you don’t like someone posting that has a different opinion/outlook than you or likes to bring out different ideas. Here’s the problem that most of these people on here have, they don’t think about all sides. There are different ideas out there than what you and Unhappy bring out, and they should be able to decide on their own what they want to believe and maybe what they want to get more information on.

    Look most people on here didn’t think they would fail as a franchisee, and didn’t have an exit plan in place, thereby putting their retirements/homes at stake. But for example, if CI wins the counterclaims in court that asks for liquidated damages, then all this advice that Unhappy may be giving them about not paying the funds may be for nothing. These people may think that CI is out of their lives if they don’t hear from them in a year, but they could also get served a lawsuit the next day and be in it once again.

    Unhappy makes the point that the Go Figure case motions aren’t going CI’s way and then makes mention that they are using different law firms, I looked it up and the main franchisee lawsuit and the Go Figure lawsuit are being represented by the same firm (look it up). But again, different types of lawsuits, the franchisees wouldn’t be hiring Zarco to represent them in a lawsuit on that related to personal injury, would they?

    I’ll continue to post here, I’ve been posting on this website since it pretty much started.

  702. Wipedout on May 15th, 2010 5:12 pm

    Want a Curves for $500? McCord has two in its “list by owner” site:

    Amenia, Pine Plains, northeast NY, $500.00

    Hope Mills/Grays Creek NC $500.00 3471 North Main

  703. Unhappy on May 15th, 2010 7:33 pm

    Hello Wipeout,
    Gee those two clubs sound like steal and I’m sure the loony tune or his side kick will go jump at the chance to own such a reputable business. Of course it will cost them 5,000 dollars in transfer fess and the previous owner will still be on the hook for at least one to two years for the franchise and advertising fees.

    What the heck according to them they make it sound as if it’s still a growing business expanding leaps and bounds with a brilliant man like Howie behind the wheel. Of course all the past and present owners know better as we have had to deal with this immoral, unethical, sociopath, no integrity type of leader for years. While I take no relish in the fact that so many clubs have closed I am looking forward to the time Howie will be in court. He can go for all the delays he can but we all know eventually he will go to trial unless he offers huge settlements first. Rumor has it that Howie is trying to sell but his greed put a stop to the negotiations with Weight Watchers and as we all know they have even filed a lawsuit against Curves and Howie. When Curves goes under maybe Howie can change his name again but this time to Greedy Heavin

  704. gladitsalmostover on May 16th, 2010 11:16 pm

    After many years of working my club it’s almost over. Honestly I can hardly wait. I have worked so hard for so long trying to do everything the “Curves Way” Trying to keep costs down, I even moved my club a few years ago to a cheaper place. It has been a struggle since the beginning . In addition to this Club, my parents were multi-unit owners…and all of their first club did great and was the last to close…but Curves opened them all up so fast and allowed so many of them so close together…it was outrageous, as soon as we signed agreements on the clubs, it was as if we had to start fighting them to not open up clubs near us. And they proceeded to tell us that it wouldn’t affect us. I remember being at club camp and them telling us, that another gym could co-exist next to us and not effect us…yeah right! At every turn Curves was telling us to give away the farm…don’t try to collect, give tons of free t-shirts…it just doesn’t work. Now after 7 years of either managing or owning a club, it’s almost over. What do I have to show for it? Well, my parents lost everything. Went bankrupt. They lost their house. My father had a mental breakdown and left my mom on the doorstep of their golden years with NOTHING. My siblings and I have lost a father, who lost his faith and has run away in search of “himself” or a truer faith. It’s a mess. Thank you Curves for changing our life. My husband and thankfully only lost $50K of our own money, but are now facing owing $50K and then some if you count what is left on the lease…and whatever Curves comes after us for…but our marriage, and family, thank God are still intact….as well as our sanity. After we sent our closing letter out to our membership and we decided to close, one of my members tried to get me to sell to them…well…this is what I told her and her husband: “I wouldn’t give this club away to my worst enemy.” I never could have imagined what pain and heartache could come on account of having had driven down this road. And it’s a shame, because it really was a place of encouragement and hope for women. I’m sure a little more pain and discomfort will be ahead for us after the club actually closes….The main heartache of trying to keep a dying thing alive will be over with and we can start to move forward.

  705. Unhappy on May 18th, 2010 2:42 pm

    ■gladitsalmostover,
    Thank you for sharing your story . Like so many other’s who have posted it is so sad that this has happened to such great people but with your positive attitude I’m sure you will come through it OK. If there is anything we can help you with don’t hesitate to call or email me.
    God Bless you and your family
    Unhappy

  706. FitDude on May 19th, 2010 10:23 am

    There goes another one……http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/business/economy-new-competitor-taking-toll-on-area-fitness-businesses-1.793133

  707. unhappy on May 19th, 2010 12:26 pm

    I just went to the link and read the article. What a shame and what a bunch of crap from Curves Internationals employee who is quoted in the article. At the end of the article the author or writer leaves their email address to comment about the article. Curves owners not only need to read the article but need to send an email to the writer asking them to do a news story on Curves telling the real truth of what is happening and why all the clubs are closing. Curves Owners it is time we get the real truth out and here is a chance to do just that by sending an email to the author of the news story. Please do so at once!!!!!!!

    Thanks fitdute for the post and link.

  708. northeastgal on May 19th, 2010 1:31 pm

    I also need to thank Robert for all his kind words and help. I agree with Don why is JD on this site if he is not or has not been an owner. As I get ready to close not one of my members blames me. One of the ladies who’s husband is the local minister said that there is no way Howie can call himself a Christian.

    Thank you all for helping me get through the last year!

    Northestgal

  709. she's not that into you on May 19th, 2010 1:45 pm

    Sad story. Seems there’s too much competition for too few members. Other clubs are struggling too but Curves has the added problem of only catering to half the population and half the market.

    Reading through these comments it seems like everyone wants to blame company, and maybe the complaints are justified. But it’s kind of besides the point, isn’t it? The big problem is that your members are not getting results for whatever reason. If they were, they’d still be members, right? If CI and the founder were caring and all touchy feely like you want, these clubs would still be closing because not enough women got real results from your Curves clubs.

  710. Guest on May 19th, 2010 2:21 pm

    “I agree with Don why is JD on this site if he is not or has not been an owner.”

    Yes, JD has no business posting on this internal Curves owners forum! Let him go find an open public discussion site to spew his well-reasoned opinions. Wait… this IS an open discussion site?

    “One of the ladies who’s husband is the local minister said that there is no way Howie can call himself a Christian.”

    Well, that decides it then! The Lord saith that the wives of local ministers have the final say when it comes to eternal salvation!

    Thanks, as always, for a good chuckle.

  711. unhappy on May 19th, 2010 5:15 pm

    ■she’s not that into you

    You are totally wrong and obviously don’t know squat about the Curves workout or curves. The program works for 99 % of the members that come in at least 3 times a week. The majority of owners will stand behind me on that as we have all seen the results. The retention of members from year to year is higher in Curves than the majority of health clubs or industry standards. Advertising is the key to all health and fitness clubs and from 95 to 03 the air waves were saturated with wonderful adds but since than no national advertising has done. All owners pay into the fund but it has been controlled by ” Howie the sociopath” . In 2008 over 30 million dollars were collected and not one dime spend in productive adds to get new members in to the clubs. Tell us Howie where did the money go to you sociopath p—k??????? This is just one of the many reason owners blame Howie for the downfall of curves but since you aren’t an owner you wouldn’t know nor do I want to waste my time trying to explain it to you as all you want to do is argue and blame owners. We continue to try to open your eyes but you keep putting your big foot in your mouth without knowing the facts.

  712. unhappy on May 19th, 2010 5:53 pm

    Breaking News for Curves Owners
    This important news worthy story has just recently been verified and is not a rumor . Our beloved Cassie Findley is no longer associated with Curves International. Cassie, as all owners know has been one of the last respected, honorable, ethical, moral and decent individuals in the top tier management of Curves International. Owners must question if this is the final blow that could bring Howie to his knees? Without her leadership on many issues Curves is left to blow in the wind with more dishonesty, unethical behavior, lack of integrity, and corrupt ways of the sociopath Howie. The million dollar question is will Cassie be the next one to file a lawsuit against Howie and if so for how much? Stay tuned as we will keep you informed!!!!!!!

  713. unhappy42 on May 20th, 2010 3:07 pm

    Dearest…..She is not that into you

    MAYBE you should visit some of these Curves who ARE still open. I was only an owner for a year and I saw outstanding results from previous members and new ones that came in my doors. My problem is with CI. Had the allowed me to use that advertising fee to advertise (REALLY ADVERTISE) in my target market area, I believe we could have survived, BUT due to no funds…I finally had to close my doors. I still had 178 members, many still coming in my doors, but it was just not enough. I did everything I could think of to stay open, even trying things such as lunch clubs and the like. It does not always work. It is a shame many of you who judge here don’t go into most of these Curves (yes travel if you have to) and meet the owners. Many of these women and men are sinking their retirement money into their clubs in order to stay open because they love the women they are helping. I have seen so many of my senior members join, hardly able to walk, yet a few months later they are moving around the circuit with ease. My own mother is one of them. She has had knee problems for years, yet a few months after she joined Curves she was moving again. Please don’t judge until you know what you are talking about.

  714. unhappy42 on May 20th, 2010 3:16 pm

    Also, to let everyone know, I did have to offcially close my Curves this week. I’m heartbroken, but have to thank unhappy for leading us in the direction we need to go. I know this for certain due to talking with other owners who have been burned by CI for having done things they asked and finding later that they SHOULD NOT have done. Such as….sending equipment CI demands they send once their Curves close. One poor owner sent all her equipment to CI yet found out later the company she was leasing from told her it was illegal for CI to ask this of her. Now, since CI has her equipment, she owes the leasing company thousands. The lady has lost her home for goodness sake! Had she returned the equipment to the leasing company she would owe nothing, but CI bullied her into sending. Through owners we have heard that CI takes this equipment and calls it ‘refurbished’ and is reselling it to other owners for a pretty penny. That is wrong when most of this was purchased outright by the owners. All they were paying for was a monthly maintenance fee which was crap. We found we were better able to fix our own problems rather than call for help on most accounts.

    I just hope those out there still struggling will not give in. If they do, CI will win and for what? As someone said before, they are a company that says they empower women, but they definitely kick the women (and men) to the curb who are trying to live out their motto by owning their company.

  715. unhappy on May 20th, 2010 10:43 pm

    unhappy42

    Very well said in both of the two above posts. Thank you for sharing your story and thoughts and you are certainly in our prayer’s.

  716. unhappy on May 21st, 2010 3:25 am

    CURVES ZUMBA CLASSES AND HOWIE’S GREED

    One of the many complaints that Curves owners have expressed on this board is that under the leadership of Howie all revenue streams are built to help Curves International and not the franchise. Below is just another prime example of this and all Curves owners should not only be concerned but up in arms once they read this breaking story.

    Many owners have tried to think out side the box in order to save their clubs from closing. only to find that Howie steps in and prevents them from doing so. Howie has done this time and time again by either threatening to terminate their franchise agreement or taking over the revenue stream so that Curves International ends up making the money not the individual franchise. Examples of this would be the grocery coupons program which was at first was a very successful program until Howie got involved and destroyed the whole program . Most owners are aware of the program and the disaster that resulted when CII got involved and tried to force the owner who initially started the program out. Howie saw that she was making money from the program off of other owners and Howie wanted that money for himself. As a result the owner who started the program ended up having to close her club and went into considerable debt all as a result of Howie’s involvement and shady dealing with the coupon program. Another prime example of this is the out of the box thinking on the 24/7 clubs. Just because Howie didn’t come up with it he was totally against it and even lied to the owners about it’s feasibility because it would raise the cost of the owners liability insurance. That was proven to be a lie, as all owners should be aware of ,so than Howie sent threatening letters to 24/7 owners stating that if they didn’t stop the owners franchise agreement could be terminated. Well we all know what happened with that. Now Howie has done it again.

    Owners being desperate for added revenue streams, thinking out side the box came up with a brilliant idea. They started giving Zumba classes, the Latin inspired easy to follow dance classes to spice up the Curves workouts. It was a tremendous success and many of the clubs on the brink of closing started to see their membership increase as a result of them offering the Zumba classes. Once again Howie became enraged that that clubs were doing it and directed the area directors to put a stop to the clubs that were offering the classes or face termination. Well guess what folks? Now Heavin is working with Zumba Fitness and is considering offering it in all the clubs and is even test marketing it in certain clubs in Texas. But here is the catch 22. Do any owners really believe that Howie will offer this to the franchise for free? Of course not, Howie is working on a plan which more than likely will be offered at convention this year and the big question is how much is Howie going to ask for in money or fees from the clubs for allowing franchisee to give Zumba classes. Just another example of Howie’s greed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  717. Guest on May 21st, 2010 6:21 am

    Owners came up with the idea of Zumba classes and “Now Heavin is working with Zumba Fitness and is considering offering it in all the clubs and is even test marketing it in certain clubs in Texas”

    There’s nothing insidious about that. In fact, that’s what’s made McDonald’s successful. Every new idea that worked were franchisee ideas. Corporate evaluates, tests and rolls the best out to the system. Sounds like CI is doing this right. kudos CI! Good job, Gary!

    ” all revenue streams are built to help Curves International ”

    How evil! Curves owns the trademark these clubs operate under. They’ve got the obligation and right to regulate what’s marketed under the Curves name, right?

    unhappy thinks that each individual franchisee should be able to change the entire concept if it raises sales or even if it saves their individual club. Why not sell costume jewelry? Add a drive thu window and sell smoothies & coffee? What if there’s no good hot dog place in town? can a franchisee add a hot dog cart outside if it will save their business?

    Franchisees bought the right to operate a staffed 30 minute circuit club for women, not a self serve 24 hour exercise room. If you wanted absolute freedom you shoulda opened Unhappy Fitness and done whatever you wanted. But what unhappy is complaining about is really against the restrictions of any franchise not specifically curves.

  718. WHAT? on May 21st, 2010 10:19 am

    After checking out the Web site for CURVES owners and mangers on Yahoo…
    I downloaded the papers about closing from CI
    We bought the machines…smart…cyclinders…etc… Now they want everything back. They even state” pads can either be destroyed or donated ONLY
    to another CURVES….ship cylinders to ES at our cost…
    Has everyone done this?
    just wondering what the aftermath would be if you did not follow what they said!!
    I understand about getting rid of machine and not having some one else buy and open under a different name…KURVES?…
    Any input would be helpful…as we are getting ready to close .
    I wondering if Howie will be the last one to shut the lights off…

  719. we're gone on May 21st, 2010 12:42 pm

    Before we were “gone,” we’d have our members (only) sell their jewelry, workout T-shirts, bras, etc. We also had them sell their “goods” around the holidays, Valentine’s Day, Mother’s Day, etc. and the members loved it. We also had stretch and strengthen classes that the members loved. It was a good way to keep the members interested and connected. Why should CI have a problem with trying to keep your members interested — anyway you can; CI certainly did nothing to help this. Even when the cheaper clubs opened close to us, our members wanted to stay with Curves, but we went from 900 members to less than 150. We had members quit because of Gary’s stand on abortion; we refused to buy his book (when he wanted his book to be on the best seller’s list) because we could buy it cheaper locally. And don’t you feel sorry for the 250 clubs he’s trying to open in India. I wish there was a way we could warn them about this infidel.

  720. Don on May 21st, 2010 1:30 pm

    Guest,
    How dare you even try to compare Heavin’s (who many curves owners feel is a sociopath) Curves business to the outstanding franchise, McDonalds. McDonalds is a great successful franchise that has been in business for over 40 years where as Curves is a one of the worst franchise business that is on the market today. Curves as everyone knows on this and many other boards has been run into the ground because of this person, Heavin, and you want to give Heavin, kudos. Your are obvious deranged, out of your mind and or on drugs. 98 % of the current owners all feel the the same about this sociopath and have all expressed their feelings not only here on this site but on the curves owners site as well.

    Kudos to Gary my ass he needs a hard kick in the ass right out the door. Without Heavin at the helm Curves clubs would be doing fine. It is time for him to go before all the Curves clubs that have had or have to close as a result of his mismanagement and unethical behavior.

    Don
    by the sea

  721. guest on May 21st, 2010 3:00 pm

    Yet another fine example of why so many owners here have lost their business:

    “Before we were “gone,” we’d have our members (only) sell their jewelry, workout T-shirts, bras, etc. We also had them sell their “goods” around the holidays, Valentine’s Day, Mother’s Day, etc.”

    You had your members selling all this stuff and more in your business? After buying all that junk from someone else IN YOUR BUSINESS, how much did they have left to spend on YOUR stuff? No wonder you’re “gone”. What kind of business guru told you to let someone else sell something at your place of business that you didn’t get a slice of? Gary may be an “infidel”, I don’t know and don’t care, but making stupid mistakes like that shows us that you have no business running a business.

  722. Guest on May 21st, 2010 5:10 pm

    “How dare you even try to compare Heavin’s (who many curves owners feel is a sociopath) Curves business to the outstanding franchise, McDonalds.”

    Don by the sea: unhappy criticizes Curves for testing a franchisee idea prior to rolling it out to the entire franchise. That’s what McDonald’s does and it’s a successful practice. That’s just the facts.

    “Without Heavin at the helm Curves clubs would be doing fine.”
    And you say I’m deranged or on drugs? You can’t be serious.

    “You had your members selling all this stuff and more in your business?… No wonder you’re “gone”.”
    Thank you, guest. I agree. That’s the reason franchisees don’t get to make their own calls. Does she seriously think her members loved working out in a flea market and getting a sales pitch from some chick selling bras out of her workout bag?

    Again, I’M deranged?

  723. carolyn on May 21st, 2010 5:35 pm

    I’m sorry to have to say this but Guest you are an idiot! I have read your remarks over the last few days and you really sound like you have no clue as to what you are talking about. My question to you is this… Have you ever owned a Curves or any business? I am a Curves owner and I am going to have to close my doors. I have spent thousand of dollars trying to make this a succes like my other two business. Yes I own two other business, have for many years and they are successful so I do know how to run a business. I am one of those owners that did everything the Curves way. I sold only their product, had only their equipment. Tried the BR’s, did my extra advertising because I got nothing from CI. My monthly advertising fee did nothing for me. What CI and Howie is doing to me thru this closing process is ridiculous. I should have done extra things that were not Curves endorsed. I should have but I did not. I did it the Curves way stupid me biggest mistake I made. Unless you have owned a Curves you have no right to criticize anyone for what they did or did not do. Why are you even making comments on this site. You are on here alot so perhaps you need to get a life or redirect that anger you have towards something more productive.

  724. unhappy on May 22nd, 2010 12:38 am

    Corolyn,,
    It’s unfortunate that people like the one you mention in the above post even post on this site as it is obvious to all of us that they are only here to antagonize owners and are probably associated with Howie. It is a fee site but if they continue as others have eventually they wear out their welcome and are thrown off as many others have been. We have found that if we just ignore them it gets them mad and than they leave as all they try to do is bate you into a discussion which they know nothing about. it is a shame that individuals in our society are so lonely for attention that they have to disrupt a site which they don’t belong and and have absolutely noting of merit to add to the conversation. A lot of times they even try to ask particular posters a question just to get you to answer them and than they try to steer the discussion away from what really maters which of course is to provide curves owners information on how to deal with the crooked, unethical, immoral and sociopath ways that Howie is trying to use to take more advantage of owners. But in either case thank you for posting.

  725. jd on May 22nd, 2010 3:06 am

    ‘ It is a fee site but if they continue as others have eventually they wear out their welcome and are thrown off as many others have been.’

    How many people have been thrown off this site Unhappy? You state ‘many’, please elaborate…Carol Cross is the only person that seems to have had her comments moved. Is one person many, or are you over stating your ‘facts’ again?

    You think that these people will leave, but the funny thing is that these same people seem to make pretty good points. You ignore them, because you don’t have an answer to them.

    So lonely for attention are we? Aren’t you the same person that on franchisepundit called a person that might have bought a store/resale a ‘sucker’?:

    unhappy says:
    April 2, 2009 at 6:37 pm
    well hopefully you didn’t buy a franchise but if you did HOW DO YOU LIKE IT NOW SUCCER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! go to unhappyfranchisee.com and see the real story about curves and all the hundreds upon hundreds of law suit for fraud against howie and curves international

    Is what you stated a ‘Christian’ statement? I bet the poster whose member’s husband is a pastor wouldn’t think the above statement is Christian.

    I don’t expect you to comment, because I don’t really think you have an answer for that post, which is hypocritical of what you’ve stated before.

  726. Kim on May 22nd, 2010 8:05 am

    I wanted to know how can the $10,000 termination fee be legal to charge if it is not written in our contract. I signed Nov. 2007 before the fee came out. According from what I was reading it wasn’t until Feb. 1 2008 that they started the fee. And if you negotiate the fee down are they still coming after their royalties?

  727. unhappy on May 22nd, 2010 9:59 am

    Many owners are hearing through the Curves grape vine that Diversified Health and Fitness is in negotiations to buy Curves International., It appears that when fitness chains that are in decline or even on their death beds, Diversified comes in and buys up the failed fitness chain. Just another sign that Curves is on the way out and is certainly in decline. Eighty to one hundred clubs a month are closing so Diversified better move quick before they are all gone..
    Such a shame and all related to Howie’s corrupt, immoral, unethical and sociopathic business behavior. With all the law suits out against Howie he may only have two options. One bankruptcy or sell to a company like Diversified.
    As a past or present owner wich do you think Howie should do????

  728. Wipedout on May 22nd, 2010 10:12 am

    Heavin went to jail over nonpayment of child support after his first fitness franchises failed. At the pace Curves is collapsing, I have a feeling he’s afraid of going BACK to jail, this time for a longer stay.

  729. unhappy on May 22nd, 2010 10:13 am

    The Curves management team seems to be leaving Howie at a ever increasing rate and it reminds me rats trying to get off a sinking boat. Of course the latest to leave was Cassie Findley and the question of the day is who will be next. Most owners are hoping that Howie steps down and the majority of owners would love to give him a kick in the you know what before he leaves. It is so sad that one man can bring down what at one time was such a great business helping so many women around the world.

    By curves owners working together to send a strong message to Howiet that it is time he left we are helping to make sure that one million women continue to get stronger.

  730. Guest on May 22nd, 2010 12:15 pm

    Those who agree, overall, with unhappy’s opinion of CI and Heavin must get frustrated with the way he continually hurts his own credibility by stating opinions as facts, starting and stretching rumors, and making assertions he refuses to back up with evidence. Those who claim to be thankful for his guidance should do him a favor & tell him to can it.

    For instance, he implies that “Diversified Health and Fitness is in negotiations to buy Curves International.” Is there a shred of evidence that this is true?

    unhappy claims that many commenters “wear out their welcome and are thrown off as many others have been” I’ve only seen ONE commenter have comments moved and she was someone kicked off most franchise sites. Can unhappy name even 3 people kicked off the site?

    “If you do the research on pacer you will find that Howie never uses the same lawyer but instead hires a different lawyer for each law suit.” unhappy claims CI switches attorneys and doesn’t pay them when his example, as jd proved, was actually a different lawyer with the same firm. So supporting data – like lawsuits – supporting nonpayment of lawyers.

    ““there are plenty of lawyers that are taking these cases on a contingency where we don’t have to pay a dime in legal fees” Still waiting for this list of 3 willing to work on contingency.

    “The Curves management team seems to be leaving Howie at a ever increasing rate..” One person left left the company and he says rats are jumping from a sinking ship. One.

    “Eighty to one hundred clubs a month are closing ” Stated as fact, but where does this number come from? Can you give a list of 80 – 100 that closed last month?

    unhappy claims everything from selling Master franchises to a single employee leaving is proof Curves is about to fall. Those who have been helped by unhappy should help him by telling him to stop putting his foot in his mouth and looking like a clown.

  731. ADMIN on May 22nd, 2010 1:59 pm

    Thanks to all who participate in this discussion, and who have made it the most heavily-commented, informative and certainly contentious on UnhappyFranchisee.com. While I try to intervene as little as possible in the discussions, there are a few issues I wanted to address/clarify.

    Banning commenters: In the past 2 years (spanning 300 posts & 4617 published comments), there are only 2 commenters who lost commenting privileges. Neither time was it for the nature of their opinions, but because of repetitious and disruptive comments that were posted regardless of context and that derailed conversations. Both times came after multiple warnings and 2nd, 3rd chances. This is an open forum where all opinions are welcome and encouraged. You can get banned, but you’ve got to work very hard at it.

    Disagree without being disagreeable: If you want your opinion read by the most people possible, you should thank your “opponents.” 2-sided debate spurs more comments resulting in higher search engine ranking, increased traffic and a more interesting thread. Discouraging those with alternative viewpoints from participating is counter to the philosophy and best interest of the site.

    Ad Hominem attacks: Please try to attack the content of the arguments, and not the commenter or the commenter’s credibility. People are coming here looking for real information and perspectives and personal feuds are boring to everyone but the feuders.

    Invitation to Curves International: All companies discussed here are invited to provide clarifications, corrections, rebuttals, statements or and/opinions and to have them published here without editing or editorial comment. You may contact us at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com.

    Again, thanks to all who visit, comment, read and visit our advertisers. Thanks to you all, people can see both sides and draw their own conclusions.

  732. unhappy on May 22nd, 2010 4:47 pm

    To Admin,

    Thank you for addressing and clarifying the guidelines of the posts on this site. It should put a stop to the Ad Hominid attacks that several posters continue to post. It has been my policy just to just not respond to such attacks and I of course encourage other curves owners to do the same and will continue to do so but will respond to the above attacks in the Guests posts and will leave it at that.

    As any owner who has contacted me off line knows there are three Texas lawyers who are taking certain case on a contingency fee. Those cases are the ones where Curves International and Howie have tried to sue owners over the remaining franchise and advertising fees once the owner has closed. The laws in Texas are clear on this matter and prevent Curves from winning these cases and the lawyers have been filling counter lawsuits against Curves for the franchisee owners for three times whatever Curves is asking for in their original summons. The lawyers are taking these cases on a 40% contingency fee. That is why Curves has not filled a summons since middle Dec of 09 against any Curves owner for closing early. Howie changed his tactics at that time and continues to try to intimidate owners into paying more money through a variety of what many owners feel is extortion tactics. I will not post the lawyers names on this site but if you are a Curves owner and have received a summons get a hold of me by sending an email to admin at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and it will be forwarded to me and I will certainly be happy to supply you with the lawyers who are handling the owners lawsuit on a contingency.

    As far as the total number of clubs that are closing each month, I would put the number far more than the 80 to 100 but closer to 140 to 160 as I am helping that many owners each month with question about closing but my figure includes over seas clubs that are now beginning to close as fast as the US clubs were last summer. The 80 to 100 figure is a conservative number which has been given to us by a person who is in the know at a business associated with Curves and has dealings with owners on a daily basis. While we are not in the liberty at this time to divulge the source we believe it to be a true and a realistic number of clubs that are closing. Of course if Curves International would become more transparent they could tell us for sure how many clubs are closing each month but we won’t hold are breath for Howe to do that well we?

    We know for a fact that there has been a recent shake up with personnel at Curves as an owner who is in frequent contact with us has her or his personal informant inside Curves International whom they are in contact with on a weekly basis. Cassie Findley who was from, 2004 through January 2009 Curves Director of Education and Research and served as Curve’s Vice Present of Training and Research since January of 2009 has just recently left Curves employment over yet to be reveled confrontation with Howie . It is our understanding that there will be more top management exiting Curves International in the not to distance future. We of course will keep all owners abreast of future developments.

    As we mentioned in the post, many owners have reported to us about hearing through the grape vine about Curves being purchased by Diversified. It is a rumor at this time but where there is a rumor there is usually some fact to go with it and that rumor has been gaining traction form various sources for over three weeks. We do know for a fact that a MBA in business has gone over the financial records of Curves International which are publicly stated in the FDD document and that MBA has conclude that this company is headed into serious financial trouble. Could Howie pull it out from the brink of disaster? Certainly but Howie’s track record certainly doesn’t show that as happening and with all the closings continuing at such a fast rate the future of Curves International doesn’t look good or promising. So in conclusion we do maintain that Curves International is in major trouble with all the closings, the lawsuits, the mismanagement by the unethical, unscrambles , immoral, unchristian like behavior ,and sociopath ways of Howie this franchise is headed towards closing completely. It is truly a shame that one man’s actions can bring such devastation to thousands of owners.

    By curves owners working together to send a strong message to Howie that it is time he left we are helping to make sure that one million women continue to get stronger.

  733. KimH on May 22nd, 2010 9:22 pm

    My club is in very serious danger of closing. I can hang on a little while longer. Would it be better to begin closing procedures or wait and see what happens to Curves International? I would rather my members believe I closed because Curves International was in trouble rather than have to tell them I closed because I just couldn’t make it.

  734. unhappy on May 22nd, 2010 11:54 pm

    Kim,
    That is a very tough decision and without further information on how your club is doing financially it is impossible to give you good advice. I sure you have the same complaints that the majority of owners have against Curves International so in reality the reasons you are failing can be attributed to Howie and his mismanagement of CII. While the economy certainly hasn’t helped owners or for that matter any business the down fall of CII can be directly related to Howie’s unethical, Immoral, and at times what most owners feel has been crooked business tactics. Why don’t you send an email to the admin at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and they will forward it to me. Be sure to include your phone number and I will call you asap to go over your options and to give you some business advice.

  735. unhappy on May 23rd, 2010 12:25 am

    Wipedout,

    In your post earlier today you state, “At the pace Curves is collapsing, I have a feeling he’s afraid of going BACK to jail, this time for a longer stay.” There are many owners who would rejoice if this does happen and it may not be as far fetched as some would have you believe. If Howie continues the practice of not paying owners who close for the wellness members payments he could very well go to jail for fraud.

    Insurance fraud is something that most states do not take lightly and CII, under Howie’s leadership, was not reimbursing owners for the wellness members payments once the owners closed until the end of Feb. 2010. When owners contacted us on that we advised them to file complaints with their states Insurance Board which many of them did for fraud and since that time it does appear that CII is reimbursing owners for the wellness payments that CII owes the owners. We explain to all owners who come to us for help in closing to check their bank statements for the two months after they close to make sure that CII does pay the owners the wellness payment owed to them and if not to immediately file a complaint with their state Insurance Board.

  736. unhappy on May 23rd, 2010 8:45 pm

    Anyone thinking of buying a Curves franchise as well as all owners should take the time to check this site out http://clubindustry.com/forprofits/entrepreneur-franchise-500-20100115/ Back in 2004 and 2005 Curves was the No. 2 franchise to buy on the Entrepreneur Top 500 business to buy. In 2007 it was No. 15 but in 2008 if fell all the way down to No. 185. Last year, 2009, it was No. 381 and this year guess where it is? Curves in 2010 did not even make the list!!!! That’s right, this year it is noticeably absent from the Entrepreneur top 500 companies to buy.

    THIS COMPANY IS FAILING AND ANYONE WHO TRIES TO TELL YOU DIFFERENTLY HAS ABSOLUTLY NO CREDIABLITY AND IS THE ONE PUTTING HIS OR HERS FOOT IN THEIR MOUTH AND LOOKS LIKE A CLOWN.

  737. unhappy on May 24th, 2010 5:21 pm

    I also find it very interesting that the No. 51 best franchise to buy is Snap Fitness. Why is this interesting you may ask? For several reasons, one of which is that Gary Findley, who managed the Curves from the beginning until late 03 when he was terminated by Howie is the CEO of Snap Fitness. Gary Findley was one of the founding owners of Curves who ended up suing Heavin for 20 million dollars and the case was settled out of court in 05 or 06. Since that time Curves has been on a downward spiral. It should leave no question as who was the brain behind the rise of Curves International. Oh by the way Snap Fitness is a 24/7 coed club similar to Curves. I will bet 4 to 1 Howie is kicking himself in the ass for terminating Findley.

  738. unhappy on May 24th, 2010 5:58 pm

    I would like to make a correction to the above post as after checking out the snap fitness site it appears that the founder and CEO is Peter Taunton and according to their web site 2010 rankings are as follows.:
    Entrepreneur magazine:
    Best in Category-Health and Fitness (#1) T
    Top New franchise (#2)
    Fastest growing franchise (#5)
    Inc, Magazine: top 500 business (#16)

    Gary Findley is part of their management team

  739. Laurence on May 27th, 2010 6:06 am

    Hi Guys

    I’m not going to write a book. I stumbled on this page by accident. The details of my situation are to painful to write about. All i can say is that we opened multiple Curves Clubs in the United Kingdom. I was made various promises by Gary Heavin in person, all of which were broken. I invested a great amount of money trying to keep my clubs going in very extreme, complicated circumstances. Curves took my best staff so they could mentor for other curves. Cutting to the chase, despite 4 years of hard work and loyalty to curves, they took me to a uk court and BANKRUPTED me. I lost my house, my business, my health. Thank you for this web page, and i pray you can help others before their life is ruined as mine was.
    Thank You

  740. unhappy on May 28th, 2010 4:56 pm

    Laurence,
    Thank you for the post and we certainly hope that before any one buys a Curves franchise that they read the all the posts here to see just how crooked Howie is that they don’t make the same mistake that all the other owners have. Thanks again for your post.

  741. unhappy on May 28th, 2010 5:48 pm

    Attention all owners

    We have just become aware that there is a major investigation of Curves International and Gary Howard Heavin in the State of Ca. As most owners know before an individual can buy a franchise the franchise must send out a FDD document 14 days before the buyer is allowed to sign a franchise contract. The FDD document is filed not only with the Federal Trade Commission but is required to be on file in certain States. In California this FDD document must be filed each year by the end of March. The FDD document covers the previous year and included in that document the franchise must list current financial information, any lawsuits filed against the franchise and all current and closed franchise locations.

    Upon going to the California Department of Corporations site for franchise renewal at
    http://134.186.208.228/caleasi/search.asp?TASKNAME=xshowDocs&PackageID=286753 you will see that the most current FDD was filed March 2009 and was for the year 2008. We contacted the CA. Dept. of Corporations to find out when the new FDD document would be posted and we were told Curves had filed the document but that the CA Dept. of Corporations State lawyer’s had refuse to allow it to be filed as it contained what they considered fraudulent statements. I asked what that meant and the CA. Dept. of Corporations Lawyers told me that the state lawyers were working on the filing with the Curves lawyers but no resolution had been made as of yet. At that time we asked the CA. Dept. of Corporations Lawyer since it was not filed if Curves could still sell franchise and use the old 08 FDD and he replied absolutely not. So our next question was, well can Curves still sell franchisee at this time and the CA. Dept. of Corporations Lawyer put me on hold to ask another lawyer who was handling the actual case. When the CA Dept. of Corporations Lawyer came back on the phone he said no that Curves was not allowed to sell franchisee in the State of Ca. at this time but if they can satisfy the filing requirements in he future they maybe allowed to continue doing so. I than asked if he was aware of how fraudulent Curves was with dealing with the owners and he replied yes he was aware that many complaints had been filed and that if any owners of Curves had a complaint during the last three years they should go to the web site http://www.corp.ca.gov/default.asp and file a complaint immediately as Curves only had until the end of June to respond or a court case would be filed against Curves for failure to file the required documents. So in conclusion, Curves International can not sell franchises in the state of California at this time and any California Curves owner who has a complaint with Curves needs to immediately file a complaint with the California Department of Corporations at site http://www.corp.ca.gov/default.asp.

  742. Wipedout on May 31st, 2010 1:09 am

    Another Curves owner’s dream becomes a nightmare.

    http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/23684868/detail.html

  743. tickedoff on June 1st, 2010 1:55 pm

    Is anybody out there from NYS and have you happened to receive a letter from the Law Offices of Serota, Avis & Assoc. Please let me know. Thank you in advance.

  744. googled it on June 1st, 2010 2:56 pm

    When I googled Law Offices of Serota, Avis & Assoc. I saw a lot of stuff on Barry Serota & Associates. Same people?

    Ripoff Report for Barry Serota & Associates
    http://www.ripoffreport.com/bbb-better-business-bureau/barry-serota-associa/barry-serota-associates-they-w4b98.htm
    http://www.ripoffreport.com/auto-repair-service/barry-serota-associa/barry-serota-associates-j-d5f44.htm

    Complaints of harrassment/deceptive practices from Serota on behalf of ADT:
    http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/8474836257

    Better Business Bureau for Barry Serota & Associates:
    http://www.bbb.org/chicago/business-reviews/attorneys/law-offices-of-barry-serota-and-associates-in-arlington-heights-il-51002411

    P O Box 1008
    Arlington Heights, IL 60006
    3715 N Ventura Drive
    Arlington Heights, IL 60004

    From BBB: “Licensing for Law Offices of Barry Serota & Associates

    This company is in an industry that may require licensing, bonding or registration in order to lawfully do business. BBB encourages you to check with the appropriate agency to be certain any requirements are currently being met.

    These agencies may include:

    Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission
    130 E Randolph St
    Ste 1500
    Chicago, IL 60601-6209
    (800) 826-8625
    http://www.iardc.org“

  745. tickedoff on June 1st, 2010 4:22 pm

    They have the same address.

  746. ADMIN on June 1st, 2010 6:42 pm

    ticked off

    if you scroll the comments above on March 28th, 2010 unhappy referenced lawyers from Illinois threatening franchisees and on April 21st, 2010 Former owner wrote about getting the letter.

  747. Waiting for the shoe to drop on June 1st, 2010 7:21 pm

    Ok.. so we didn’t re-new or extend our 5 year franchise. We haven’t told CI yet that we are closing.
    Any one else do this?
    CI made contact 1-2 times about resigning another 5 years.. what a joke…
    Nothing in about a month or more from them…not even the area director.
    Now we are waitng for the shoe to drop from them..any help or info would be great!

  748. Kim on June 10th, 2010 10:39 am

    Does anyone know what would happen to all the cases against Howie and the liens that he has placed against the franchisees, if he were to file bankruptcy? (We can only hope) I can’t see him going on much longer. I’m preparing to close, my neighboring town just closed, the next closest Club only has another year left to her contract and she won’t be renewing. So what happens to the outstanding fees he is trying to collect?

  749. Wipedout on June 10th, 2010 4:40 pm

    A Newark Curves closes . . .

    http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20100609/UPDATES01/100609026/1052/COMMUNITIES02?flv=1

  750. Guest on June 10th, 2010 5:38 pm

    WOW! No wonder clubs close left and right – the OPEN one in Newark has SEVEN employees covering just 54 open hours and 260 members? With those hours and membership, 3 employees (1 full time and 2 part time) would be plenty. Yet another fine example of poor management on the ground. I suspect the Newark Curves to be following in the footsteps of their neighbors fairly soon. And it will all be the fault of the franchisor, right? And I’d agree; if you were arguing that they are at fault for allowing idiots to buy a franchise!

  751. Wipedout on June 11th, 2010 10:15 am

    Try to keep a 260-member club afloat. I DARE you. I DOUBLE DOG DARE you.

  752. Wipedout on June 11th, 2010 10:42 am

    Check out these recent McCord listings for Florida Curves . . .

    Just Reduced! Curves of Pembroke Pines, FL
    WOW! Great Location! 360+ members! Large territory!

    Asking price? $29,900. Less than that of a new Curves franchise, and with “350+ members” to boot.

    Reduced! The only Curves in busy Clearwater, FL
    Priced to sell! Great Location with Heavy Traffic! You have the best of two worlds, with the club being close to the beach and city! Well maintained and fully equiped with everything Curves has to offer! Loyal staff and members! Curves SMART!

    Asking price? $15,900. I guess we know now why it’s the only Curves in busy Clearwater. All the others went belly-up.

    And the saddest of all. . .

    REDUCED!!! Dr. Phillips, Florida
    Business Stability with High Income! Prosperous Curves franchise in an affluent neighborhood with a high opportunity for growth!

    Asking price? A paltry $5,000. So much for “business stability and high income!” If you’re making so much, why sell for so little?

  753. WHAT? on June 11th, 2010 11:06 am

    The sadest listing is the one for $500.00….giving it away and still no takers…
    still waiting for the other shoe to drop!…check out the other site also..under yahoo groups.. curves owners and managers…Sh** is gonna hit the fan soon..

  754. visitor on June 11th, 2010 12:13 pm

    Here are a few more priced less than their equipment alone is worth. How much $$$ do you all think a new owner who buys one of these might lose by the time all’s said & done?

    $500.00 Hope Mills/Grays Creek NC
    $2,500.00 League City East/South Shore
    $4,000.00 Randolph, MA
    $9,500.00 Raynham/Taunton, MA
    $9,900.00 Loganville GA
    $9,995.00 San Antonio TX
    $10,000.00 Temple TX
    $10,000.00 Sheboygan Falls, WI
    $10,000 Reading, PA
    $10,000.00 Lynden WA
    $10,000.00 Marianna FL
    $10,000.00 Havre de Grace MD

  755. Judy on June 11th, 2010 12:32 pm

    What I don’t understand is what is happening to all of the equipment?
    Couldn’t you hang onto it for a year and then reopen as an independent? Without the fees you would at least have a chance of a profit.

  756. Guest on June 11th, 2010 1:32 pm

    Wiped said: “Try to keep a 260-member club afloat. I DARE you. I DOUBLE DOG DARE you.”

    Wow, is that how YOU got into the business? On a bet? Do you regularly make business decisions on a dare? Before I decide though, I’d need to know, would I have to keep the 7 employees? Would I have to keep it (estimating here from what most Curves seem to be doing) in a location that is 2 to 4 times the needed size paying 10 times the rent? (The NATIONAL commercial real estate market is in free fall folks, renegotiate your leases!) Going by the brilliant strategies I’ve seen here, the list is nearly endless. So basically, what I’d need to know before accepting your “DOUBLE DOG DARE” is would I have to run it like you guys do? Or do I get to run it like an actual business?

  757. guest on June 11th, 2010 2:03 pm

    Judy said: “Without the fees you would at least have a chance of a profit.”

    Quit kidding yourself. With Curves minimum monthly fees at just 95 and 195, if you think you can turn an unprofitable business around simply by eliminating those fees, you are sadly, but not surprisingly, mistaken. Somewhere else on this site a PACE distributor tried the argument to convince people if they dropped those gigantic franchise fees (by buying HIS equipment) they’d be profitable. What a load. If you cannot control your rent and payroll you are finished. Plus, most re-sales overpaid and THAT loan payment and mismanagement is what makes them unprofitable.

  758. Found the link on June 11th, 2010 2:10 pm

    Here you go, here’s that advertisement “article” for the PACE guy. There is actually some pretty healthy debate and intelligence in the first half dozen or so responses in January. Then in Feb to the present, unhappy and the PACE guy get on a mutual admiration rant and it degenerates into the norm.

    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-can-indie-clubs-thrive-where-curves-failed/

  759. Wipedout on June 11th, 2010 2:13 pm

    Unless you work every shift and hire NO help and don’t give away free T-shirts and other prizes, you will not survive long with a 260- member club, especially in Newark, NJ. Most owners need 400 members to break even or make a small profit.

    But go for it, Guest. You sound so confident. Put your money where your mouth is and buy that Orlando Dr. Phillips club, with its 350 members, for $5,000. We sold a club with 300 members at the time of the contract signing for more than $100,000 just three years ago. THIS Orlando club is a bargain for only $5K .

    Show us how we could have been successful. We’ll be waiting for your sage advice.

  760. visitor on June 11th, 2010 3:56 pm

    Guest will be much better off with the Hope Mills NC Curves location. The asking price is $500.00, but they usually price high so there’s room for negotiation. I bet with Guest’s business acumen he can get it for $250… $350 tops.

    I’m sure the rent is reasonable in Hope Mills, NC and at I doubt the resale is “overpriced” at $350. With your superior business mind, Guest, I think you could make a killing turning around these bargain Curves run down by lesser franchisees than yourself. Go for it!

  761. Guest on June 11th, 2010 4:05 pm

    Wait, it looks like the consensus here was that anyone who sold their club was ripping the buyer off and that CI should have stopped them! Isn’t that part of the basis of one of these law suits?

    But more importantly, three years ago you sold a club for “more than $100,000”. Then, less than a year and a half after selling that club to (as unhappy refers to them) some “SUCKER” for “more than $100,000”, you posted here in Jan ‘09 as being “Wipedout” (you may have been using that handle elsewhere even before that). Hmmmm. Looks like you should have sold more than the one club, huh? No, no, I’m sure you knew what you were doing.

    Some folks are like the people who invested poorly in the stock market. A business is an investment. If you are not treating it as such, you shouldn’t be in business. If you are going to take risks, you have to be willing to accept the responsibility when those investments fail (especially when they fail because you didn’t manage your portfolio correctly). “2 years ago my club/portfolio was worth $100,000. Today it’s worth nothing.” Who’s fault is that? If you INVEST in something and then don’t sell at the right time, you may have made a great investment, but you failed to sell. You sold one of your clubs for $100,000, I guess you should have dumped all your stock in Curves back then too!

    And sure, I’ll zip right down there and snap up that FL club. Please. Stop being ridiculous and learn something for a change. I’ve been driving a car for 40 years. I’ve seen plenty of accidents in my time. I don’t have to be involved in the accident to understand what that person did wrong. Likewise, I have been running businesses for over 30 years, I don’t have to mismanage your business to see what you are doing wrong. Also, you make the assumption that I never owned a Curves or similar business.

    But if you are actually willing to learn (and sadly, it doesn’t really look like many really are, but for the few that are)… at 260 members, between dues, new sales, product sales, etc… should be bringing in AT LEAST $10,000/month. Speaking of product sales, NEVER give away anything that does not lead to another LARGER sale. Give them a DISCOUNT on something, not the something! Outside of Curves I’d NEVER seen that. It’s utter nonsense! Now, to the biggies: rent and payroll. A quick search shows that there are PLENTY of commercial spaces going for $1 a Sq/ft or LESS in the Newark area. So even if you are tied into a lease, renegotiate. 260 members should be in no more than 1300-1400 Sq/ft space. Hours listed were pretty good (that’s the max I’d recommend, unless you’re going with the 24/7 system). As I said, 3 staff – 1 full time and 2 part time. Notice how I didn’t say “full time manager”. Even if you are not in the club daily, YOU are the manager and so long as you do your job, you just need staff that does THEIR job too. I’m assuming for this exercise that you are NOT working the club, if you are, eliminate either the full timer or BOTH part timers. Always only 1 on at that early morning hour/hour and half and the last hour. Full time covers 8 of the 10 weekday shifts. 2 staff on on Monday and Wednesday (typical busy gym days), 1 part time on each of the 2 remaining uncovered weekday shifts and rotate Saturdays. Near and above double digit unemployment means that you can get GREAT help at a bargain! Is that the end? No, of course not, but that’s your two most costly expenses PROPERLY sorted out and I didn’t have to actually drive a car into a tree to do it! The question is though, are you willing to do what needs to be done? Are you capable of making the cuts that are needed and renegotiate when you have to? Are you a charity or are you done overpaying help? Are you done paying twice the going rate for rent? Do you let people bounce payments to you and NOT collect from them? Are you scared of the competition or are they scared of YOU? Times are tough for EVERYONE, myself included, so quit whining and blaming everyone else and sack up already. That, or you too will be “Wipedout”.

    Now, before you claim I’m some Curves plant and throw the baby out with the bathwater, think about it. From what you all have written here, it doesn’t look like anyone there has much more business sense than you, so I couldn’t possibly be with them!

  762. Guest on June 11th, 2010 4:09 pm

    NC, there you go. At least you’re getting closer. However, I still have no desire to have a business three states away. See if you can find me something on the coast and maybe I’ll think about it. At least then I could make it a working weekend holiday!

  763. Guest on June 11th, 2010 4:15 pm

    Also, all you sharp business minds are forgetting that these re-sales are going to be tied to taking over crazy stupid leases as a condition of the sale. A $500 cost to take over a $5,000+/month lease may sound like a great idea to you, but then again, many of you thought it was a good idea to pay $150,000 to take over a $200,000+ worth of lease liability – and THANK the seller for the “opportunity” on top of it!

  764. unhappy on June 11th, 2010 10:23 pm

    Wipedout.
    Why waste your time replying to guest when it is obvious she, he or it, doesn’t know her ass from a hole in the ground. Her points are not valid, she has never owned a Curves and knows nothing about running a business much less a curves. If curves was such a good business do you really think that the State of California would have declared that the FDD was fraudulent and stop all sales of new and resales of curves franchises? Of course not and any one who has owned a Curves knows how dishonest, unethical , immoral and anti-christian Howie is and continues to be. !00 clubs a month are closing and by the first of the year this company will be bankrupt!!!! If not before……………………

  765. Guest on June 12th, 2010 2:49 am

    Unhappy wrote “Why waste your time replying to guest when it is obvious she, he or it, doesn’t know her ass from a hole in the ground. Her points are not valid…”

    That’s right! Controlling your payroll, reducing your rent, NOT giving away free stuff that doesn’t lead to a larger sale – this is NOT sound advice. Listen to unhappy who, by his own admission FAILED to keep his own business alive. I’m sure he’ll help YOU stay in business though. Yep, that sounds like a good plan to me. Reading his rants, it looks like he’s just pissed that he couldn’t unload his last two clubs to some “sucker” like he did before. All this, despite his vast knowledge and abilities!

    Don’t you people get it yet? His “business” now is tied to YOUR failure. The more YOU fail, the more business his lawyers get. It’s awe inspiring!

    But please tell us, how many law suits have you actually WON against Curves, unhappy? I’m not talking motions, but actual cases. Come on now, you don’t even need your fingers to count so this should be easy. And all those wins (0), how much has it cost OTHER owners? Hasn’t cost you anything though, right? You’ve already said before that YOU aren’t in the first round of law suits – you know, the round that COST owners up front money. You’re waiting for the SECOND round, the one which will go forward ONLY if the first one is won.

    Maybe it’s me, but reading what you’ve written, it looks like the only thing you’ve been successful at, is being a failure. That and convincing yourself that you being a failure is not your fault. Seems like you’ve had more success as a failed businessman (and I’d guess earned more in, what do they call them?? “finder’s fees”? from lawyers?) than you probably did when running your business into the ground. Well done.

    But let’s take a moment to listen to unhappy from a couple of weeks back: “Thank you for addressing and clarifying the guidelines of the posts on this site. It should put a stop to the Ad Hominid attacks that several posters continue to post.”

    First, I’m going to assume that you didn’t actually mean “advertising attacks against primates” (“Ad Hominid attack”???) and actually meant to say that there should not be any arguments based solely on irrelevant facts or opinions about the author (argumentum ad hominem). I find you praising that idea to be pretty close to the definition of irony. It is in fact YOU who simply dismisses the content of anyone’s post who does not agree with you SIMPLY because they do not agree with you and justify this with false and irrelevant character assassinations (and worse, character attacks on people you don’t even know!) never to respond to the actual content.

    Just to clarify though, what you and “admin” are referring to as ad hominem attacks are not in and of themselves improper forms of debate. When a person’s opinions, motives, conduct, etc… DO relate to the issue and ARE relevant reasons not to believe their arguments, they ARE legitimate points in an argument. So, when someone points out that you don’t even know the status of these cases you point to, that you’ve misquoted other articles to fit your argument, that you’ve never actually won a case against Curves, that you’ve not personally paid to join the lawsuit you think everyone else should join, that you will financially benefit from THEM doing so, that you attack the person instead of the argument, that you regularly claim one small thing to mean an entirely different thing (for example, your statement about what is going on in CA has nothing to do with anything OTHER than late filing of paperwork and NOT an indictment of the franchise system as a whole – like you would have readers believe), that you state opinion as fact and routinely make up numbers that you can not and will not back up, that whenever anyone points any or all of this out that you say they should be ignored because they are a plant or “he, she, it” is “immoral, unethical, dishonest, anti-Christian” (just like “Howie”), etc… these seem to YOU to be irrelevant “ad hominem” attacks but in reality are perfectly legitimate sticking points as to why no one should believe a word you print.

    Oh snap!

  766. Wipedout on June 12th, 2010 10:06 am

    Guest, let us know what city and state you live in. I’ll do my best to find you a deal on a nearby struggling Curves and you can buy it and turn it around with your business acumen and by doing things “the Curves way.” Then you can REALLY experience what we’ve all endured. If you make it, congratulations. If you don’t, welcome to the club.

  767. Guest on June 12th, 2010 2:22 pm

    I don’t want to be harsh, but come on. No wonder you are “wipedout”. Did you ever take anyone’s advice without insisting that they fail like you did in order to validate their position? That’s nonsense! Do you even read the replies sent to you when you make such silly propositions before making another ludicrous suggestion? As I already said to you:

    “And sure, I’ll zip right down there and snap up that FL club. Please. Stop being ridiculous and learn something for a change. I’ve been driving a car for 40 years. I’ve seen plenty of accidents in my time. I don’t have to be involved in the accident to understand what that person did wrong. Likewise, I have been running businesses for over 30 years, I don’t have to mismanage your business to see what you are doing wrong. Also, you make the assumption that I never owned a Curves or similar business.”

    and then to “visitor” when he/she said to buy a $500 club and turn it around:

    “…all you sharp business minds are forgetting that these re-sales are going to be tied to taking over crazy stupid leases as a condition of the sale. A $500 cost to take over a $5,000+/month lease may sound like a great idea to you, but then again, many of you thought it was a good idea to pay $150,000 to take over a $200,000+ worth of lease liability – and THANK the seller for the “opportunity” on top of it!”

    You want me to prove I understand business concepts better than you? I’ve already done that numerous times here, but the simple truth is that the proof is in the pudding: you are the one out of business, not me. Of course, here’s the difference, while I too have had setbacks in business, I’ve learned from my mistakes, listened to people more successful than I (instead of listening to people who failed even worse … unhappy) and moved on. You are still listening to people like unhappy who tell you to ignore people who tell you to start with the basics – by reducing your rent and payroll! I look and see some people here GIVING crap away while at the SAME TIME letting OTHER people SELL in their club! “Here, let me GIVE this to you. But PAY that member there for HER products!” Does ANYONE honestly think that that is a good business model? Why would I want to experience YOUR failure instead of my success? You’re being just plain silly now. Please, pay attention, stop wallowing in self pity, learn from your mistakes, separate yourself from people like unhappy who actually seem proud about how they failed, and move on!

  768. unhappy on June 13th, 2010 1:31 am

    Wipedout,
    Like I’ve said many times before why even respond to such a dimwit such as guest whoever she, he or “It” is as it is just a waste of our time. “It” doesn’t have anything to offer to this board or discussion about Curves and Howie’s dishonest business practices. It is obvious to all Curves owners that “It” is in bed with Howie and only here to stir up controversy and try to prevent owners from getting legal advice for their problems with Curves and Howie. “It” will argue that “It’s” points are valid when we all know from personal experience how wrong and idiotic “It’s” points are. All ‘It’s” wants to do is to try to place blame on the owners and never ever has any response to the facts of how Howie has mismanaged Curves. Besides if funny how “It” reacts when we ignore “It” posts and how mad and upset “It” gets.

    Thanks to this board many owners who were being intimidated by Howie illegal tactics into paying a closing fee, franchise fees, and advertising fees after they had closed have stop paying Howie a dime. In 09 if you closed Howie would threaten to send the owners to Curves legal department if you didn’t pay and would actually file a lawsuit against owners and because of this board owners realized that it was all intimidation and extortion and fought back with lawyers who we had referred them to in Waco TX. Those owners took those cases on a contingency fee of 40 % and in each case filed counter suits against Howie for three times the amount requested by Howie’s summons. In each case Howie has had to offer out of court settlements to prevent the cases from going to trial as Howie’s lawyers informed Howie that he would lose in court if they went to trial. This can be proven by looking at the FDD disclosure document and seeing how many law suits have been settled by Howie but of course “It” will contend that it just makes good business since for Howie to settle out of court to limit the liability in those cases while not admitting to any responsibility…Ya right Furthermore speaking about the FDD document. Did you see where the state of CA had put a stop on all sales of Curves franchises for fraudulent statements made in the current FDD that was filed at the end of March? Howie has until the end of June to make corrections or fraud charges will be file in the State of California against him. I have no doubt that Howie will correct the filling so that he doesn’t end up in jail (wouldn’t be the first time Howie was in jail) but it certainly shows that he is a crook.
    Howie being the dishonest, unethical, immoral crook that he is has changed his tactics since the first of the year, all because of this site. Instead of trying to take the owners to court Howie refers them to a collection agency out of ILL. The first letter owners are receiving is from the Law Offices of Serota, Avis & Assoc We all thought it was funny that the firm was from IL. not TX. but upon further research it is obvious why. Go here to check it out.

    Ripoff Report for Barry Serota & Associates
    http://www.ripoffreport.com/bbb-better-business-bureau/barry-serota-associa/barry-serota-associates-they-w4b98.htm
    http://www.ripoffreport.com/auto-repair-service/barry-serota-associa/barry-serota-associates-j-d5f44.htm
    Complaints of harrassment/deceptive practices from Serota on behalf of ADT:
    http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/8474836257
    Better Business Bureau for Barry Serota & Associates:
    http://www.bbb.org/chicago/business-reviews/attorneys/law-offices-of-barry-serota-and-associates-in-arlington-heights-il-51002411

    What the old saying, birds of a feather flock together? Well I guess it true. Once a crook always a crook and they seem to stick together. Howie the crook,
    Barry Serota the crook and “it” all seem to flock together and all are worthless pieces of sh–. Let them all rot in hell together.

  769. anon on June 13th, 2010 7:53 am

    According to California Lawyer at http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-847-483-6257 there is no Barry Serota law firm because Serota is dead. Here’s California Lawyer’s comment:

    “Barry Serota is deceased. The Law Offices of Barry Serota is not a registered professional corporation, therefore the Law Offices of Barry Serota does not exist. Using a deceased attorney’s name to collect consumer debts is a violation of the FDPCA and is the unauthorized practice of law. If you are contacted by Robert Polansky, John Frank, or anyone else purporting to be from the law office of Barry Serota, contact the Illinois State Bar Task Force on Unauthorized Practice of Law, (800) 252-8908.”

  770. unhappy on June 13th, 2010 3:07 pm

    Thanks anon for you informative post. Anyone who even tries to stand up for Howie at this point not only has no credibility but is just a plain fool. To even try and put owners down as incompetent business owners is either a stooge for Howie or just plain and simply an idiot. They have no place on this board and their post should be ignored as irrelevant and total nonsense.

  771. unhappy on June 13th, 2010 7:51 pm

    TO ALL CURVES CLUB OWNERS HERE ARE THE SITES YOU NEED TO GO TO TO FILE COMPLAINTS AGAINST CURVES INTERNATIONAL AND HOWIE.

    http://www.bbb.org/

    http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c

    http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml

  772. WipedOut on June 14th, 2010 12:18 am

    I did learn ONE lesson from this debacle which cost us our home and most of our life savings. I’ll never buy a CURVES again. We were doing tremendously well until Curves opened another territory near us. Now BOTH clubs are long gone. Curves’ greed oversaturated the market.

    Did you lose as much as we did, guest? How did you bounce back and move on?

  773. Guest on June 14th, 2010 2:12 am

    Wipedout said: “We were doing tremendously well until Curves opened another territory near us. Now BOTH clubs are long gone. Curves’ greed oversaturated the market.”

    Still looking for that ONE thing to blame it on, huh? If it were truly just oversaturation, when one of the clubs closed, the market would have shifted and the remaining club would have rebounded. But as you said, that is NOT the case. Starbucks too learned this simple truth when they had mass closings to “de-saturate” the market.

    I’m honestly sorry you lost so much after having so much. But it looks like you’ve done the same thing so many other owners did: did NOT put away for a rainy day, expecting the “good ol’ days” to last forever. Not only that, but when you sold your one club for over $100,000, you didn’t get out and lost not only that $100,000 but how much more? And now you’re compounding you error by listening to failures like unhappy. I realize “the rut” is comfortable, you can feel the sides of it as you walk along it, it’s almost as if it’s hugging you, you know where it is and where it’s going, but until you get out of it and away from the people stuck in it who are HAPPY being unhappy in it, you’ll never progress forward.

  774. Guest on June 14th, 2010 3:17 am

    unhappy, I’d like to thank you for once again giving us a textbook example of “argumentum ad hominem”! While you claim to be the upholder of truth and feign distain when people make “Ad Hominid attacks” (that’s just awesome by the way, I’m gonna get laughs over that for ages to come) anyway, while on the one hand you claim to detest irrelevant personal attacks and wish people would keep on topic, it is simply mind boggling that with the other that is the ONLY response you will give when someone challenges you and the utter nonsense you spew. Of course, you have no choice as you’ve paced yourself in an indefensible position.

    Calling someone “it” as if by making the author a non-human entity justifies ignoring their entire argument or would turn out the light shown on your nonsense. It’s classic ad hominem. When that doesn’t work, i.e. every time you “respond”, you throw in that ANYONE who disagrees with you is a “dimwit” and/or “in bed with Howie”, as if only idiots and paid employees of Curves could ever disagree with you. Certainly not anyone with any business sense! Now of course, some of your die hard believers will accept these as a viable arguments, but anyone with a whit of intelligence realizes the foolishness of this and sees that you are never able to actually defend yourself with verifiable facts.

    I, and many others here, do and have suggested that people requiring it, get legal advice – but that they get it from an actual lawyer and not someone who has a vested interest in them joining a suit that they themselves are not even willing to pay any money into! And more importantly that they get BUSINESS advice from persons other than you.

    As a matter of fact (facts, something you aren’t very well acquainted with, but are of a concern to most people) despite your claim otherwise I’ve never defended Curves treatment of owners or business practices and I don’t see where anyone else here has either. Yet EVERY time someone disagrees with you, you state that they are defending Curves – you did it again in your last post. I don’t understand how someone with your claimed intellect can not grasp that just because someone disagrees with what Curves has done and is doing, does NOT mean that they have to agree with you and your rantings. Can you not fathom that one person can disagree with two other people who are fighting with each other? Just because we may agree that Curves has behaved inappropriately (and possibly even unethically, though you never know what is truth and what is fiction around here) but even if we were to take that as a given, that THEY are unethical, does that by default make YOU ethical and worthy of anyone’s support? No, the enemy of my enemy is NOT always my friend. You sir are no one’s friend (with maybe the exception of the folks at Zarco!). There were, and are, plenty of people who completely disagreed with Hitler, does that mean that they have to agree with Stalin? Maybe, just maybe, there was another alternative to Fascism than Communism? Hmmmmm….

    Again, how many cases have your lawyers won against Curves? Where is that multi-million dollar payout that everyone (well, everyone but you) is paying Zarco to get? You talk about settled cases, but none of those have ANYTHING to do with the case at hand. It’s just more of the twisted logic you use. Just because others have been able to get a settlement, does not mean your case is worth anything. You’re like the guy at the corner 7-11 with his scratch cards – “One day, I’ll hit it big!”. Except at least he is gambling with his own money, you on the other hand got everyone else to gamble with THEIR money when you wouldn’t do so yourself. THEN, if anyone actually wins something, you’ll be able to bring your freebie suit completely on a contingency basis without having had to actually risk any of your own money – but made how much in “finder’s fees”?!

  775. jd on June 14th, 2010 1:55 pm

    Unhappy states:

    ‘…Ya right Furthermore speaking about the FDD document. Did you see where the state of CA had put a stop on all sales of Curves franchises for fraudulent statements made in the current FDD that was filed at the end of March? Howie has until the end of June to make corrections or fraud charges will be file in the State of California against him.’

    I think you need to provide a source that ‘fraud charges’ will be brought up if they don’t correct the FDD by the end of June, because I’m guessing that you are once again ‘bending’ the truth.

    Most likely the fact is that their FDD is in non-compliance, therefore they aren’t legally allowed to sell or have anyone be disclosed using said FDD. Odds are their last FDD ran out in April 2010. If they were selling franchises between the notice (April) and now to CA residents, then they would be in violation, which the franchisee could rescind the franchise agreement and Curves would have to pay back the franchise fee and likely be fined by the State.

    I’m curious to know where you get the fraud claim from because to win on a fraud claim someone has to have economic damages and relied on the statement (as well as other factors). If they haven’t sold since their notice then there would be no fraud, because no one would have relied on the franchise documents. Again, I’m guessing you are trying to talk ‘big’, but really don’t understand it actually works.

    As for what guest states, they are pretty accurate statements. While Unhappy and Wipedout would like to silence them, the other people on here should really read the advice and look at it from both ways. Think of it this way, Unhappy thinks CI will be bankrupt early next year, if not sooner. Well, what do you think will happen to these second round of lawsuits he talks about? No attorney will take those cases on a contingency basis, if there is no money there. And if you think you’ll get to his personal accounts, don’t be so sure, because he has been dismissed as a defendant in the big case going on right now.

  776. unhappy on June 14th, 2010 2:15 pm

    Howie is at it again trying to rip off owners who have bought into the Curves Smart equipment (about 45% of the clubs bought into it) If it wasn’t bad enough when Howie came up with the Curves Smart idea he sold it to franchises as new technology (it was actually ten years old at the time and never worked than nor does it work now) and that Curves International would spend hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars advertising the roll out of Curves Smart to generate new members coming into clubs. Of course all owners now know that was just another lie from Howie as so far there has been no national advertising campaign for Curves Smart, .
    But now Howie and Curves International is KNOWINGLY strong-handedly trying to get owners who have closed to violate their leases with the CS leasing company. In short, when one takes out a lease for capital equipment, it is standard in such leases that the lessee MUST maintain possession of the equipment until the lease is up. At that point, you return the equipment to the leasing company (like a car lease, for example) or you have a buy-out clause (often $1). Most Curves owners have a $1 buy-out clause. Howie and Curves International is telling owners who have Smart and have closed that they “have to” return the CS equipment to curves International, although no where does it say that owners have to do this (especially if owners own the equipment!). The wording of their closing documents (that someone kindly posted on the owners-managers site) specifically notes that if you have a lease, you need to be aware of the chain of possession. Somehow they think this will get them out of trouble with the leasor. Anyway, they are offering to “release” people from their franchise agreement IF they return the CS equipment, but what is someone who has a lease supposed to do? They are then selling the “refurbished” equipment to a new owner for $6,000. MyTrak was NOT happy to hear about this and said that it has nothing to do with Curves International (they recommended to one owner to keep her equipment and try to sell it to another owner). And not surprisingly, United Leasing does not seem particularly happy either. One owner posted that they were VERY upset when she returned the equipment to curves International , since she owes the lease. Just another case of Howie’s fraudulent business tactics Howie you are nothing but a crook.

  777. jd on June 14th, 2010 3:13 pm

    Unhappy states:

    ‘Howie and Curves International is telling owners who have Smart and have closed that they “have to” return the CS equipment to curves International, although no where does it say that owners have to do this (especially if owners own the equipment!).’

    Do people read their franchise agreements (I’m guessing not many do or maybe it’s the fact that this is stated on pg 38 of their 2008 agreement):

    ‘Grant to Curves the option to purchase all equipment used in the operation of Franchisee’s Facility and other usable items bearing the Curves Marks at fair market value not to exceed $1,000…’

    It might be ‘unethical’, but it seems like what they are doing is legal. The franchisee should be reading all of their contracts and verify the ‘chain of possession.’ In a case like this, it’d be wise to contact an attorney and get advice on your legal options.

  778. ADMIN on June 15th, 2010 4:30 pm

    Note to all: Please refer to each other by the “commenter” name only. Attempts to “out” one another’s real or suspected identites is bad form and an extreme breach of netiquette punishable by banishment from this esteemed community. Thanks. The Management

  779. stop the bickering please on June 15th, 2010 5:06 pm

    It would be great if you guys could stop the name calling and petty bickering. There’s a lot of good information on this thread but unfortunately we’ve got to wade thru alot of shiping back & forth. Insulting the other doesn’t make you seem smarter, just unprofessional.

    Some of us are looking for real information and appreciate it when you all stick to substance and not namecalling.

  780. Justine Curver on June 15th, 2010 8:19 pm

    “Guest” are you just one person? why don’t you pick a more specific moniker? just trying to figure out if all the comments are coming from one person or another…

    Per your (“guest”) post to Judy, who wanted to skip the fees to Curves International so she could have a chance at making a profit, I’m guessing this Guest hasn’t actually owned a franchise.
    Here’s why, from my personal experience:
    At 260 members the fees are much higher. I didn’t have the sliding scale but I compared and at 250 they’re pretty close. In fact if I remember right, the ad fee was much higher at 250. Anyways, I was paying Curves International:
    - $395 monthly royalties
    - $195 ad fees
    - $ 20 or so for managing my “wellness memberships”
    that’s $610 a month….

    (btw- the wellness program sounds like a winner but it lost me a ton of money…. imagine going from someone who prepaid their year every january (39×12 +tax) to $4/visit…. that was the tradeoff i had for over a dozen women at one club and nearly a dozen at the other)

    and I think I was paying them
    $365 Curves Smart Lease
    $ 99 Curves Smart Computer
    that’s another $455 that you could argue I wasn’t paying to Howie but still, because of Howie….

    With that monthly $610 or the additional $455/month I could have done alot more advertising or other incentives to fight to keep my club going during this recession. I agree with Judy wholeheartedly.
    And it makes me more agreeable to “unhappy”‘s assertion that you don’t have any real franchise experience.

    ■guest on June 11th, 2010 2:03 pm
    Judy said: “Without the fees you would at least have a chance of a profit.”

    Quit kidding yourself. With Curves minimum monthly fees at just 95 and 195,………….

  781. ADMIN on June 15th, 2010 11:37 pm

    Guest,
    A few requests:
    1) Please post with a working email address so I can address issues like these offline,
    2) Please email me at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com about site policies, enforcement, etc.
    3) Stop using the IP anonymizer because all your comments have to be retrieved manually from the spam filter. We literally get hundreds of porn, cialis and other “comment spam” entries per day and I’m going to discontinue combing through them soon.
    Thanks

  782. Guest on June 16th, 2010 2:46 am

    Justine Curver,

    From your numbers, you were on the flat/fixed rate on both your fees. The minimums I was referring to (as laid out here a few times by different people) are in fact the minimums that anyone on the sliding percentage paid. My reason for quoting the minimums was that if someone is not making any money (and they may well not be, I’m NOT saying they are lying or anything) but if they have nothing coming in, then they would be at the low end of the scale and paying only the minimums and therefore the money they would “save” by NOT being a Curves would be the amounts I quoted: $290/month.

    Now, as to YOUR numbers. You were on a flat rate of $590/month whether you were grossing $2,000 a month or $20,000. Don’t know and don’t care what your gross was, that isn’t the point. The point at hand was how much would be SAVED by NOT being a Curves. In your case you quote yourself at $610 when you include the wellness management fees(I’ll address the rest of your proposed savings in a minute). OK, let’s see what including wellness into the equation does for us…if you weren’t a Curves you are correct, you’d have no wellness management fees because you’d have no wellness members. So, as well as saving the $20 a month you’d also be LOSING money (now, I’m going to have to do something here that I don’t’ like doing: guess with very limited information, so you’ll excuse me if I’m a bit off in my math. You didn’t say, so I’ll just have to wing it a bit) assuming just a 4 visit a month average on your wellness members (even though my average for a wellness member was 7, I’m feeling generous), also that only half were on Curves Smart (again, felling generous, as we only had 10% NOT do Smart), and assuming that NONE of them were on the flat $33/$35/$40 fee (i.e. existing members who switched to wellness), at $1 per member, $20 dollars in wellness fees means 20 wellness members, not great, but hey, let’s work with what we’ve got and see what happens. So, 20 members X 4 visits on average X $4/visit = $320 PLUS you are allowed to charge a monthly Smart fee directly to the members for each one on Smart (plus the initial fee, but we’re looking at the monthly “savings” you’d get for not being a Curves, so we’ll forget that for now) so we assumed just half on Smart for 10 members X $5 = $50. $320 + $50 = $370 in lost wellness. So, for wellness, you’d be saving $20 but losing $370. So, you’re right, my numbers to Judy ($290 / month in savings) aren’t the same for you. You’d be saving $610 – $370 = $240 oh, wait, look at that, that’s worse! And I SWEAR, I didn’t do the math until the end, so I’m as surprised as you. But in actuality, unless Judy had ZERO wellness, she’d be saving even less than the $290 I quoted before. So you might be saving a little more than she would, but not much. Thank you for reminding me about the wellness monies she’d lose!

    Actually, I just re-read your post and I see that you said that you had over a dozen members at your one club and nearly a dozen at the other switch to wellness (since we’re going with a per club savings, let’s stick with one club and call it a dozen). OK, well, up until Jan this year for the one $4/visit program, and next month for the other $4/visit program, for existing members switching to wellness, you were getting $35 and $40 / month respectively. PLUS you got the Smart fee as well for those members. So, even with paying the $1/member/month you were getting $39 and $44 instead of your normal $39. That means it would increase the loss of wellness and decrease your savings even more. Sorry. Again, you didn’t give me all the facts, so I’m just going off what you said. I’ll gladly redo the math when you provide more facts. But, though I’m sure it will be ignored, I’ve made my point.

    As to including in your “savings” your Smart lease and support contract, first, you’d still be paying off your lease if you keep the equipment, second, having Smart in a club of 260 members MORE than pays the monthly expense of the lease and contract. And of course, if you are talking about not having to pay for Smart, that would mean you returned it to the leasing company and weren’t using it, selling it, or earning from it. OK. I guess, if we’re going down this route, you could also say that you wouldn’t be using iGofigure and save that money too, but then you’d be running your club without any member management software.

    Also, despite saying it a few times, you failed to get the point that that small amount is NOT what is killing owners. While in every business, it really is important to count your pennies, in this case it’s the BIGGIES, rent and payroll, that are decimating these businesses. BUT both of which I showed can, and should be managed better than they are by people. There is NO REASON to be overpaying for rent and payroll. Not with the state the commercial real estate market is in and double digit unemployment. I suggest you read more carefully as it looks like you completely missed this. $240 (or less) in “savings” for you to NOT be in the franchises system is in no way going to turn an unprofitable club profitable. It just isn’t going to happen. However, controlling your rent and payroll CAN.

    Not that I’m trying to convince you, or anyone, to stay with Curves, I’m not. But if you think that it’s tough doing business as a Curves, you might want to look at the stats for a ladies gym with NO name recognition. “Justine’s Fast Workout” simply isn’t going to cut it. Not even without franchise fees!

    Lastly, with respect to your, “guess” that I “never owned a franchise”, not only did I own several Curves, as evidenced by the content in my posts, but others have been corrected for that presumption – I owned other similar businesses and have been running businesses for over 30 years (including owning another non-fitness franchise). But that doesn’t matter. At least 90% of what I’ve said is NOT franchise dependent. It’s simply good business sense. But, if the ONLY people you are going to listen to are people who owned a franchise and failed, as if only they can understand your problems, well then, you too are doomed to failure.

  783. Kim on June 16th, 2010 11:15 am

    Guest what do you do now? Are you retired, a CI Spy, the CI accountant? It’s obvious you have too much time on your hands to put that much thought into all the figures and quote eveyone. What exactly is your interest in this site?

  784. Kim H on June 16th, 2010 11:46 am

    The problem with Curves is that it is obvious that so many franchisees are not making it. We pay these fees for royalties and advertising and get very little in return. When we ask our AD or Curves International for help they just say get more BRs or put out more lead bags. These things worked very well in the beginning when Curves was the new workout in town, but now BRs and lead bags are not working. I live in a very small community. My loyal members have given me all the names they want to give and I’m tired of the junk I get in lead bags. What worked in the past is not working now. In training Gary says to do everything the Curves way and it will work.

    McDonalds is not serving the same exact food in the same exact manner as when McDonalds first opened. They have changed with the times. Curves has not changed anything. It is obvious that the Curves way is not working and there needs to be some changes.

    I understand that we are all independent owners and we are responsible for our own sucess or failure. But when you are told to only do things the Curves way and are reprimanded when you go outside of the box, what are we to do? I’m tired of the old BRs and lead bags. We need something more from Curves International.

    What made Curves so big in the first place? It was different from the same old gym. Yes there were other knockoffs. But Curves was the best. Curves was different. Now Curves is old news and we need something else that is new and different. Curves Smart seemed to be answer but it was the same concept. We need Curves to reinvent itself and be the new exciting workout again.

    Hopefully our royalties are being spent in a way that is developing new products again. But I doubt it.

  785. Elizabeth on June 16th, 2010 1:15 pm

    I have to agree with Kim. Guest you have way to much time on your hands to own any business. I do not think that Guest ever owned a Curves. I think he works for CI and it striclty their to post on these sites. I also owned 2 other business, successfully I might add, besides Curves. oh wait no I just closed my doors on my Curves because I was in the HOLE EVERY MONTH. So guest stop wasting your time on this site its obvious that your only job is to criticize people and are probably getting paid to do it.. Oh by the way before you have a remark about what I’m doing on the site during the day with two business to run my little boy has strep I am home with him today.

  786. Guest on June 16th, 2010 1:45 pm

    “Are you … a CI Spy, the CI accountant? It’s obvious you have too much time on your hands to put that much thought into all the figures and quote eveyone.”

    Well Kim, when you’ve been in business as long as I have, it doesn’t take a lot of time to do the math. One of my biggest points has been that this DOESN’T take “that much thought”. It’s business basics. When you bought a franchise you mistakenly figured you could skip right over the basics. Don’t feel bad, you’re not alone in that mistake. But we’re not talking spreadsheets and databases here. This is basic 1 + 1 = 2 math. If you think it takes an accountant to do these calculations, I hope you have one.

    Yet another “he’s a CI spy!” voice added to the chorus? How original. Please, try to attack the argument instead of the man. Find fault with what I say, not who you THINK I may be. Where am I defending anything other than common (business) sense? I just said, 90+% of what I’ve said has nothing to do with running a franchise, but running ANY business.

    Well under 2 minutes. I’m pretty sure that I’ll still manage to get done everything I need to do today. It helps if you can think and type very fast. Mind you, even though I was just saying the same things again – but in a slightly different way in hopes that something would slip through – that last post did take I guess about 10-12 minutes while I was watching the news. No big loss though, I did it during commercial breaks and while watching the weather and finished during a story about (another) European strike. Whoops, now I’m at almost 3 minutes!

  787. endofmyropeisanoose on June 16th, 2010 1:49 pm

    Is the “Rite of Passage” contract buy-out new? 3 owners near me “settled” for a $2500.00 contract buy-out. But they only give you 14 days to pay it or they claim they will send you to legal.
    Has anyone here done this? And if so….did you pay the $ in 14 days before being sent to legal?

  788. unhappy on June 16th, 2010 2:23 pm

    to endofmyropeisanoose
    Curves and Howie has just changed the name to” Rite of Passage” to get owners to pay a portion of the closing fee. They than tell owners they will get a mutual release. It is not mutual as it prevents owners from sueing curves but Curves can still sue owners. If you close early, you do not owe anything to Curves legally and Howie can not force you to pay a dime. Don’t pay a dime more to Curves or Howie after you close.

  789. unhappy on June 16th, 2010 2:44 pm

    ATTENTION ALL PAST AND PRESENT CURVES OWNERS
    We are in the process of starting a yahoo group site for present and past owners of curves franchises where all the resources for closing, reselling of equipment, lawyers information, current news and lawsuit information will be available to all individuals who have owned a Curves franchise. The only requirement to join in the group will be that you will have had to at one time owned a Curves franchise and will be verified by our moderators before being allowed access into the site. We hope to have the site up and running in the next two weeks and will post the site address as soon as it is completed.

  790. frazzled on June 16th, 2010 3:33 pm

    Guest
    It is imperative that any business examine how every penny is spent. Lets take a look at some actual facts.

    In the past 7 plus years, I paid $195 per month in ad fees. Review of my stats for the last 3 years show those fees generated new members at a cost of $585 per member. Membership fees of one year were $468 each. (difference of -117)

    Curves approved local advertising cost an average of $196 per new member, but generated for fewer leads.
    Non-approved local adverising cost an average of $8 per new member and generated a high number of leads. (Then CII shut all of these down)

    Non approved Curves advertising generated 28 members to every 4 generated by Curves Advertising.

    Last year, CII commercial attacking WW stopped any and all referrals from WW meetings locally. Prior to that time those referrals were frequent and at $0 cost to my club .

    Where would you choose to spend advertising dollars?

    Its not just an issue of saving $195 per month by NOT paying CII. But instead, what if one could take that $195 and invest it in something with a higher return?

    It doesn’t make good business sense to me to continue to pay anything for results of those ad fees.

    Not only are we paying for costly ineffective advertising, but we are also paying a franchisor to tell us not to do what does work.
    frazzled

  791. Guest on June 16th, 2010 6:08 pm

    Frazzled,

    I’m all for looking at “actual facts”. :) However, I think you’ve made an error. According to your math (195 per month X 12 = 2340, 2340 divided by a quoted 585 per member cost = 4 new members per year from that 2340 investment) you are saying that you got just 4 new members per YEAR from all branding sources? That’s 4 members a year from all the following COMBINED: signage, 1800 number, TV, the internet, phonebook, national partnerships, wellness, national coverage on shows like Dr. Oz and Tyra, etc…? I find that more than a little hard to believe since we averaged over 5 a MONTH from all those sources. I think you meant was that you averaged 4 new members per MONTH which would mean a cost of $49 per new member (195 / 4).

    Also, you say your non-approved advertising generated 28 members at a cost of just $8 per new member. WOW!!! I’m sure EVERYONE here, particularly those that still own a club, would love to know what advertising you did for $224 that generated 28 members! (8 x 28 = 224)

    Won’t disagree with you at all on the WW commercial. Bad move.

  792. frazzled on June 17th, 2010 10:02 am

    Guest
    My post addressses what you get for $195 per month ad fees.

    I did not make an error. Believe me, I wish those results were different. But you are making an error. Reread my post. My calculations are done on members that are direct result of 195 monthly ad fees. Yes, I average 4 members per year as a result of that advertising Curves does. Sad, isn’t it ?

    That EXCLUDES new members as a result of sign, phone book or anything else I pay. I did not include phone book or signage on the calculations for my local ads either. since I do not have any monthly or yearly costs associated with them. In addition, surveys in my club show that most of my members have never seen a Curves ad or any other Curves mention on TV.

    Now, my costs would go up even more if I actually calculated the time spent by staff contacting leads from the internet from Curves. Many of those leads turn out to be false. For some weird reason, the leads that come from the Curves internet have an extremely high rate of being “wrong number”, “states did not make the request”, “business number”, etc. Leads that come through my own website have a much lower error rate. (In fact, we were very disappointed with the initial internet leads we first received from Curves as the majority of these were incorrect numbers, etc. those years are not included here.)

    As for the 800 number, I have NEVER had a new member through the 1-800 number. I have had calls, but none of these people are in my territory.
    Every , I repeat, every 1=800 call that I got has been for a club located at least 30 miles away. I get all of her 800 calls. Apparently, no one gets mine. ( I take the name and number and then call the other club. We laugh each time about it and wonder if it will ever change. She gets no calls on the 800 number )

    Wellness: I did not include wellness in the calculation. Why? I had 0 new members from wellness until I did open houses with the insurance reps, incurring other costs. Then, my total new members from wellness is less than 20.. Out of that 20, I only get about 10 total workouts per month in spite of programs and time spent to increase attendance. Wellness actually costs me money to run. The attendance rate is so low on the new members plus when I calcualte money loss on my members who switched it really throws it off. I figure this separately. If I added t those figures it would actually increase the amount ad fees cost me. Actually, I should have included these calculations.

    Your club is obviously doing better. I have not recieved 5 new members in one month from any source in a very, very long time.

    You would think Curves would be interested in my good advertising results. But when I shared it, they shut it down.

  793. And another one gone and... on June 17th, 2010 10:54 am

    RIP Heath, OH
    “HEATH — The Curves fitness club in Heath closed suddenly last week, but the Curves in Newark will honor payments made by Heath members, according to new Newark club owner Kim McIntyre.

    The Heath Curves closed with little notice to employees and no notice to members, according to frustrated members who showed up to find a note on the door of the business at 1002 Hebron Road.

    McIntyre said the Newark Curves, 1222 N. 21st St., already has absorbed about 40 transfers from the Heath facility. The Newark facility has seven employees and about 260 members.”
    http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20100610/NEWS01/6100369/HEATH-CURVES-CLOSES-TRANSFERS-OFFERED

    RIP Nipomo, CA:
    “Suddenly, Curves closes in Nipomo… The sudden closing of Curves in Nipomo was a surprise to many. The fitness center is no longer open, but Healthy Inspirations of Nipomo is offering free enrollment and a special deal for people who want to continue working out in Nipomo.”
    http://www.theadobepress.com/articles/2010/06/04/columns/weitzel/weitzel.txt

    RIP Boyertown PA
    “Curves, a fitness club for women which is located at 120 East Philadelphia Avenue, Boyertown, will officially close on Saturday. Curves owner and Pottstown resident Susan Xander said that the club is closing because of the economic situation and declining membership.
    Xander wanted to find someone to take over the franchise but was unable to.
    The club has been at its East Philadelphia location for about six years and Xander has been the owner for more than three years.” http://www.berksmontnews.com/articles/2010/02/09/boyertown_area_times/news/doc4b71d6c0477ee488489628.txt

  794. Nancy on June 17th, 2010 11:10 am

    Isn’t that Heath, Ohio not Heath, NJ?

  795. Justine Curver on June 17th, 2010 11:14 am

    Guest, (still not sure if I’m addressing one person…) I’m sorry if I was not clear. Though I was paying a fixed rate for royalties and ci’s “ad fees”, at 260 members I was paying a little less than someone on the sliding scale. I don’t have the exact sliding scale fees available but I did comparisons as I was talking to a couple of potential buyers before I closed. (yeah, the potential was lost)

    Also, as to Judy’s original thought on getting relief from those fees, I interpreted it as a temporary relief, like a short-term subsidy or grant, to allow a franchise an opportunity to get through lean times. I was not talking about giving up on the Curves community. As you may not realize, other successful Franchisor’s do grant such relief, and other support, to help their Franchisee’s survive hardships, whether the hardship is caused by poor management, misfortune or calamity.
    So, I think you grate alot of us who wish C.I. had extended a little more help for our survival by accusing us of exercising poor judgement/management/whatever. AND really, I wonder if you aren’t quick to criticize our misfortunes to help distance yourself from your fears that the same thing could or did happen to you.

  796. And another one gone and... on June 17th, 2010 11:21 am

    Yes, Heath, OH. My bad. Thanx for fixing.

  797. anon on June 17th, 2010 11:34 am

    “other successful Franchisor’s do grant such relief, and other support, to help their Franchisee’s survive hardships, whether the hardship is caused by poor management, misfortune or calamity.
    So, I think you grate alot of us who wish C.I. had extended a little more help for our survival…”

    If Guest is right that the fees do not amount to a significant amount, then it would not cost CI that much to suspend fees for struggling clubs. It would be a big gesture for little money.

    As you read through these nearly 800 comments, you wonder how different things would be if CI would at least PRETEND that they understood and cared about what their franchisees are going through.

  798. endofmyropeisanoose on June 17th, 2010 12:31 pm

    Apparently, what I have is what other Curves Owners are calling a ‘corridor property’. Hmmm….never heard the term till lately.
    Long story short, down to 52 members. I was one of the few that actually made $ with a membership of 150. But times are tough and people moved out of my ‘corridor’.

    Can I still use the above e-mail address and get info on the ROP closing before I set any wheels in motion?
    Thanx to all here who care and support each other.

  799. Guest on June 17th, 2010 6:02 pm

    Frazzled,

    Said: “My post addressses what you get for $195 per month ad fees.”

    While I understand your points, if you are going to talk about what that 195 gets you in leads, you have to include all branding leads. For example, even when someone does a search for “Curves” and is from your area and gets your personal website, you understand that that is because of branding. Something that you would NOT get as a non-Curves/independent gym. And while you did of course pay for your signage, as I said to Curver, if the sign said “Frazzled’s lady’s gym” instead of “Curves” you wouldn’t be getting nearly the walkins you get with a “branded” sign. Same thing with your name in the phone book. Even more now, when a person goes to the phonebook they are looking for a SPECIFIC company or product. My point is, either you include it all or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways – complain about the cost but exclude certain benefits.

    As to your other costs to follow up on leads, develop relationships with potential member pools, etc… these are normal business expenses for EVERY business that you would STILL have, even if you were not a Curves.

    Contrary to the mistaken opinions of some, and baseless accusations here, I can’t and don’t speak for CI so I can’t say why they continue to disregard successful campaigns run by owners, but I would sincerely like to know what the advertising was you did that netted you 28 members for just $224.

  800. Ray on June 17th, 2010 6:11 pm

    Guest
    This is my first time to write anything. Whoever this person is professing to know it all is full of S@*T.
    I bet he does not and never has owned a Curves! I have ran my business for 21 years and I am still making money in these bad times. I bought a Curves for my wife a year ago (I’ll admit I’m DA) and we have not made one dime. We took a run down Curves, moved it in to a brand new building,, new carpet, new paint, etc.
    In the past year not one person from curves has set foot in our club, not one. My wife ask for help and you know what they say, “put out more lead bags..” That’s a crock. I have been reading all post for about 9 months. Wish I had before I purchased this money pit. I really don’t care what CI says. I will do what ever it takes to try and make this business go.
    I realized what a bad mistake I had made when my wife came back from Curves Camp. What a joke! If you are reading this Howie, please pull my franchise, PLEASE!!!
    P.S. If you find misspelled words or bad grammar don’t bother to correct it. I are an engineer, don’t spell.

  801. Guest on June 17th, 2010 6:32 pm

    Justine Curves,

    First, thank you for the armature psychoanalysis, but no, no transference or projection here. I’m sure it comes from genuine concern for my wellbeing though, so again, thank you.

    Now, I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. You laid out your situation and I detailed for you why you were focusing on the wrong expense and how thinking that THAT was what was cause of all your woes was no different than it was for Judy – a mistake. And in your case we weren’t even considering any of the new members branding generates for you. When you add that into the mix, I just don’t see how you can say that saving that small amount would turn your business around.

    Also, I’m not sure what your clarification is intend to do. Previously you said “At 260 members the fees are much higher.” but now “Though I was paying a fixed rate for royalties and ci’s “ad fees”, at 260 members I was paying a little less than someone on the sliding scale.” This second statement is in fact accurate and, depending on some factors we can’t calculate in without more details, you were probably paying between 60 and 100 less than someone on a sliding scale. Still not enough to even nudge it into a higher concern. This is still a very small percentage of monthly revenue and expenses. And while all expenses are important, on its own it is NOT what is making and breaking people. I honestly don’t know any other ways to say that.

    “Also, as to Judy’s original thought on getting relief from those fees, I interpreted it as a temporary relief, like a short-term subsidy or grant, to allow a franchise an opportunity to get through lean times.”

    No, Judy’s original, and follow-up post were VERY clearly with respect to NOT being a Curves:

    “Check into purchasing your own own equipment and opening under your own name if you are set on doing it. You will at least save yourself almost $600 a month by not getting tied up with Curves.”

    and

    “What I don’t understand is what is happening to all of the equipment? Couldn’t you hang onto it for a year and then reopen as an independent? Without the fees you would at least have a chance of a profit.”

    It’s OK, there’s a lot of stuff going on and it can all get confusing and it’s not really fair to do that to people as I have pretty good recall for what I read.

  802. Nancy on June 17th, 2010 6:41 pm

    Ray,
    Thank you!

  803. Just So You Know . . . on June 17th, 2010 6:52 pm

    Wow, “guest” really has a lot of time on his hands!

    It’s all about him — he’s higher up on the food chain than the rest of us, and it’s supremely important to him to prove it.

  804. Ha Ha Ha on June 17th, 2010 7:22 pm

    Guest wrote: “First, thank you for the armature psychoanalysis”

    Armature psychoanalysis?

    You appreciate psychological therapy for the electrical components of an electromechanical machine?

    Ha! That’s just awesome by the way, I’m gonna get laughs over that for ages to come!

    (your words to unhappy over his typo)

  805. unhappy on June 17th, 2010 8:51 pm

    To Ray, Nancy, Just So You Know, and Frazzled,
    Thanks for the support and posts. Once our yahoo group site is up we won’t have to put up with It’s posts as only past and present owners will be allowed on. We will have all the current information as to the new and ever changing tactics that Howie is trying to use against owners to collect more illicit money from owners. We will also have the list of lawyers who owners can contact for legal advice as well as all the lawsuit information and the results of the all the trials.

  806. Justine Curver on June 18th, 2010 1:33 am

    Oh Guest!
    Oh Everyone, I just feel so frustrated with Guest. I know it’s silly for me to take any more time discussing the Ad Fee and Branding with this poster, but I just don’t want anyone to think I’m agreeing with this writer! You know? His arguments aren’t bad, they’re just missing key pieces of information… like any information specifically about CI!
    I just signed my Chapter 7 papers yesterday and am looking forward to ‘the end’ in about 60 days. We lost our house, our savings, all the women at Curves! you know the drill…. But it’s a fresh start!
    Anyway, good luck to everyone. I’ll keep checking in. Hope to tune into the yahoo group too.

  807. unhappy on June 18th, 2010 11:40 am

    Justine,
    All of us that have been or are Curves owners know how you feel, Justine, and believe me we share your pain. Not only for financial losses but because of the attachments to our members. I have not talked to one owner who ever felt that the concept and workout didn’t work as we all can tell success stories about all the women we have helped. It is just such a shame that we didn’t get the service or help of any kind from Curves International and were treated with such unethical, immoral and some times illegal tactics from Howie. Don’t every worry about any of us thinking you were agreeing with “it”. Any owner who reads the posts here knows the truth as they have had to live and endure all the crap from Howie and are use to having to deal with shills. Please keep checking in at least until we get the yahoo group site up and running so that you will have the site address (as we will post it here as soon as it is up and running) and remember there is live after Curves and God Bless. Unhappy (but getting darn right happy as times go by)

  808. endofmyropeisanoose on June 18th, 2010 9:05 pm

    I hate to see any business owner suffer closing, but I have a soft spot in my heart for fellow Curves owners. I know it doesn’t help much, but to read the stories here from all of you does indeed break my heart. I know what being a part of so many people’s lives has meant to me over the years, and there is just no describing the type of support members can give your life.
    Deciding to close has brought some overwhelming emotions, as well as some light at the end of my tunnel. I expect a struggle…..I am realistic…..and I am not looking for CI to produce pots of gold at the end of any rainbow. Those willing to share their story has meant alot to others, and I respect everyone for doing so.
    What a relief to know it may be over soon, and I can have a life back……
    My hope is that others will feel the same.

  809. Susie Clubowner on June 19th, 2010 12:17 pm

    June 19, 2010

    TO ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN BUYING A CURVES FRANCHISE!
    PLEASE READ!!!

    If you are reading this and you are thinking about buying a Curves franchise, PLEASE, please think TWICE; think THREE times, and then think again!

    I bought my local Curves and tried desperately to get it into the black,
    and did everything Curves Intl asked me to do and then some.
    I followed the procedure specified by Curves as a Curves-approved ‘resale’,
    and also participated in the “Curves development process” (their so-called
    ‘training’, which really doesn’t tell you much except how to sell ‘their’ way).

    I attended their “Club Camp” and “Convention” (wow, what IS it with Curves
    and Weight Watchers, anyway? They mocked Weight Watchers, they really
    put them down…and I don’t see why. The two should NOT be in competition.
    Weight Watchers is a DIET plan. Curves is an EXERCISE plan. If they were
    to PARTNER they would both benefit. But Curves apparently doesn’t see it
    that way. They want to be ‘all things’ to ‘all members’).

    I did everything they asked and then some. I worked 24/7. I worked at my
    Curves many more hours than I had anticipated, and then even MORE on top
    of that as the money ran out, desperately trying to reduce monthly expenses
    by working myself instead of paying payroll.

    But right from the start, my club’s monthly expenses were woefully
    underestimated by the owner who sold it to me (to the tune of some $3,000.-
    $4,000. a MONTH and yet these same expenses were REVIEWED and APPROVED by Curves Intl. That’s deceptive trade practices, folks!

    I also had problems with the CurvesSmart equipment which not only did Curves Intl NOT resolve (I solved myself via an Electronics expert working on my end and
    a MyTrak – developers of the CS equipment – on their end) but they complicated
    matters considerably and cost me thousands of dollars by NOT PAYING
    ATTENTION to my pleas for help and questions via email, AND by MISQUOTING
    the price I should charge. (yep, believe it!)

    Every single item you can THINK of is will wind up to be YOUR responsibility.

    Curves does NOT even provide you with KEYTAGS to run their computer
    system (they cost up to $2.50 apiece) – oh, and the license fees to run their
    system run $50./month for the basic system, plus another $120./month for the
    CurvesSmart system). Curves will not give you so much as a simple POSTER to put in your window advertising the latest Curves promotion. Instead everything costs YOU money. (“take this to your local printer”, they say).

    You need to understand, Curves Intl makes their money by SELLING TO THEIR FRANCHISES. You are expected to get the money from your members, but
    Curves gets it from YOU. The Curves products (including
    t shirts, Diane Magazine, promotional items, etc etc etc) all cost money and
    the shipping and handling is OUTRAGEOUS (even for ground shipping).
    Expect to pay $5.00 and up for a simple t shirt for a member. If you try to
    sell the t shirts you will have to ‘overprice’ them much higher than the MSRP
    (which already is like $14.00 a t shirt) to your members in order to make any
    kind of profit at all. And there are many, many items that you will be expected
    to buy and never get a penny back from — including the Diane magazines
    (sold only in cases of 80), any and all promotional items, and even the ads
    you need to run yourself (don’t expect help there….when was the last time
    you saw a Curves TV ad?)

    You have to get and pay for all local newspaper advertising (and you
    have to get special approval — which 8 months later I STILL haven’t heard),
    the idea there is ‘stall’ so you’ll give up) for if you don’t use the ‘canned’ approach Curves provides. (this approach does NOT allow for you to put your own before and after pictures in your ads, and in fact allows for NO personalization other than the address and phone # of your Curves).

    Oh – and there’s another monthly charge of $100. for
    ‘advertising’/national branding. That’s in addition to the monthly franchise
    royalty you will have to pay (automatically, Curves deducts both fees monthly
    out of the bank account you MUST provide to them upon becoming an owner).

    Additionally, the “Development” process is nothing but a pep rally and a
    sales ‘according to Curves’ mentorship, which seems to assert that all women
    are stupid (you can’t divulge any prices over the phone, you’re told to ‘get them
    in the door first’ and then talk them into buying). Basic business skills, how
    to operate a business, even what licenses are needed, are NOT covered by
    Curves International or are given the briefest of mentions on their websites.
    In my case sales tax was an issue, so was a surety bond and a business
    license, and these items represented thousands of dollars I did not know about
    and did not have (but obviously had to find from somewhere…so guess where?
    my OWN rapidly disintegrating pockets).

    DON’T FALL FOR CURVES. It is NOT a good investment. You will work yourself into an early grave and Curves will simply say ‘You failed – pay UP!’ (at present we are trying to negotiate better terms than the $2,000-$5,000 ‘closing fee’ they are swearing we owe them ‘or else’ they will sue us $10,000.)

    PLEASE listen. Don’t be like I was. I read this website back in October and dismissed the owner, feeling he was disgruntled and had an axe to grind.

    But I wish I had listened! Now I have to pay back all my members, I have a legal battle to fight, and my self-esteem is at an all-time low; despite working my TAIL off to get my Curves ‘in the black’.

    If you think I just am in a ‘depressed area’, or didn’t work hard enough, let me
    say, as well, that I DOUBLED my membership during these ‘trying’ economic
    times. I worked very very hard to get these members. But it’s not enough. There is no way it would EVER be enough to cover the expenses of running a Curves franchise.

    And CURVES PROFITS EITHER WAY. They charged me thousands of dollars to
    get ‘approved’ as a new owner, thousands for training, thousands for promotional
    and advertising materials and licenses and everything else; they when I
    finally gave up they said “Tough…you owe us between $2,000-$5,000. ‘closing
    fee’ and you’d better pay or we’ll sue you $10,000″.

    The whole premise of Curves is to prey upon your desire to HELP women,
    to do what’s right in terms of exercise and fitness and health. But they don’t
    care about those things. All they care about is TAKING YOUR MONEY.
    And when you close the first question they ask you is “Have you tried selling
    your club to someone else?” – the implication, being, of course, that they
    will just turn around and do it AGAIN to someone else.

    I stopped the cycle (hopefully) and will close my club ethically for my members’
    sake. But I’m here to say, please please don’t fall for it. I thought I was
    reasonably intelligent. I had some business experience. But Curves knows
    ALL THE ANGLES, and they will manipulate you and USE your honesty and your
    desire to help women to make themselves money.

    NOTE: This email address is deliberately falsified as I have to worry now
    about being pursued by Curves Legal Dept. Please know that I did NOT make
    my story up. It is TRUE. I have nothing to gain here, but my time and my
    truthful, from-the-heart story about my relationship with Curves International.

    STAY AWAY FROM THIS FRANCHISE. If you want to open a fitness center,
    DO SO YOURSELF. Don’t tie yourself to Curves because you think it will
    bring you more customers. They will take your money and you will be left
    high and dry.

    Susie from the U.S.

  810. endofmyropeisanoose on June 19th, 2010 2:47 pm

    Susie:

    Your story is almost a carbon copy of mine. I suspect most are. (Except my area director told me not to bother with Curves Camp)
    I wonder if we know how many potential buyers have taken advice from here and NOT purchased a club? Maybe ‘unhappy’ would be willing to share that good news with us….if available.

    My closing date is Aug. 1st if all goes well.
    When is yours?

    Good luck to everyone facing this battle. Best to all who have already overcome it!
    Looking forward to changing my moniker……..

  811. unhappy on June 19th, 2010 6:19 pm

    ■endofmyropeisanoose,

    The unofficial count so far is several hundred poetical owners have taken advice from here and other franchise pick sites about Curves and not purchased a resale or franchise from Howie.
    Where this site has really helped is owners who had to close and faced the intimidating, arm twisting and in many cases illegal tactics by Howie to either destroy or donate equipment which is legally the owners or to force owners into paying a closing fee or franchise and advertising fees once they were closed. Over 1900 owners have refused to pay Curves and Howie a dime more once closed and this site is responsible for Howie stopping the tactics of filing lawsuits against owners who close . We also have a list of over 1,775 owners who want to join the second wave of group action or class action lawsuits against Howie depending on the out come of the first wave of group action lawsuits.

  812. ADMIN on June 20th, 2010 10:31 am

    BP franchise owners are under attack. 600,000 well-meaning (but misguided, imho) activists have joined the Facebook “Boycott BP” page and now Lady GaGa and other high profile celebrities are caling for their fans to boycott BP stations. There are protests at franchise gas stations, and franchisees have had their stations picketed, vandalized, and had oil drenched animal carcasses dumped at their doors.

    The BP boycott will have little to know effect on BP but could be devastating for franchise owners already struggling.

    Curves franchise owners know what it’s like to suffer because of the sins (or at least the political views, PR missteps, etc.) of the “father” franchisor. Please share your thoughts on the boycotting of your fellow franchise owners, and whether you think it’s the right way to get positive action, here:

    BOYCOTT STUPIDITY: Support BP Franchise Owners!

    (While my pro-franchisee bias is not exactly subtle, alternative views, as always, are welcome)

  813. ADMIN on June 21st, 2010 6:46 am

    If anyone ever has problems with their comments appearing, email unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com. Thanks.

  814. ADMIN on June 23rd, 2010 12:54 pm

    Should franchisees be punished for views or actions they have no control over? Shouldn’t they be wooed as potential allies to urge change from the franchisor rather than being run out of business?

    Your thoughts and comments are invited here:

    10 Reasons NOT to Boycott BP, especially BP Franchise Owners

    One reason franchise owners remain powerless is that they rarely organize or act as a group – even within the same chain but especially across brands.
    Should franchisees of other chains (hint, hint) stand up for one another when they are unfairly under attack? Or at least educate people on the structure of the franchise relationship and who they are actually attacking?

    Franchisors organized the powerful IFA to protect their self-interests, but franchisees generally won’t speak up for one another (they get FR-funded balloon animals like the AAFD). Opposing franchisee boycotts should be a no-brainer.

  815. unhappy on June 25th, 2010 12:13 am

    If you are an owner of a curves franchise and are upset at the underhanded, unethical, immoral, and shoddy business practices of Curves International you need to go to this site http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/280/RipOff0280916.htm
    and file a complaint. It may help someone else from making the biggest mistake of there life.

  816. Elizabeth on June 25th, 2010 8:26 am

    Does anyone have any advice as to what to do with the Curvessmart equipment once you close your club. They have sent me boxes, appartently packing boxes, what should I do?

  817. closing club also on June 25th, 2010 8:50 am

    We have sent the letters to the members…we are done!..
    i read on the yahoo site that depending who you get at legal…you can keep it..
    dont send back… try to sell it… you bought it!
    so far we have not heard from legal..we told them that we are not renewing..will be interesting to see what happens!

  818. unhappy on June 25th, 2010 9:12 am

    Eilzabeth,
    That equipment is yours and Curves has no right to it. Curves wants you to send it back as Howie will turn around and sell it for 6,000 dollars. Many owners have not sent it back and if you email admin at at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and ask him to forward it to me I will send you contacts you can call to verify that.

  819. Still in the nightmare on June 25th, 2010 9:51 pm

    I received my legal letter today demanding over $30k because I didn’t pay the initial settlement offer. Please clarify again – am I just to completely ignore this? What is CI doing now with recent closing owners?

  820. unhappy on June 26th, 2010 11:42 am

    First off is it the demand letter for abandonment? It will say that on top of the letter and should have come one day overnight delivery from ups. if it is disregard it as it is just part of their threatening tactics. The next step is to receive a letter from the dead attorney out of ILL. That is a collection letter threatening that if you don’t pay a lawyer will be hired in your home city to file a lawsuit against you. First off any dispute between you and CI or CI and you has to be settled or taken to court in Waco TX . Secondly under TX law Curves can not sue you for back fees once you have closed. There are something’s that you need to do to protect yourself so send an email to the admin of this site and ask them to forward it to me with your phone number and I will call you to explain what all you need to do. Don’t panic as it is all part of Howie tactics of intimidation and extortion and legally they have no grounds to collect any money from you so don’t pay them a dime. Send request to admin at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com

  821. Wipedout on June 26th, 2010 11:48 am

    Curves are closing faster than CI is able to keep up with them. Just ignore ‘em!

  822. unhappy on June 26th, 2010 12:43 pm

    Wipedout,
    .Not only are they closing faster than the speed of light, 86% of the owners in a recent poll state that they do not plan to renew their contract when it comes up for renewel . Anyone thinking of buying a Curves at any price should reconsider their decision as this franchise is going down the drain thanks to Howie and Diane.

  823. lost my life savings on June 26th, 2010 4:41 pm

    to Still in the Nightmare:
    I closed in October, 2009, because my club was losing money faster than I could earn it on my regular job. I had 9 months left on my contract. I contacted CI (by phone, email, and certified letter) to tell them I was closing and to ask what the proper procedures were for closing. At that time I did not know about their rediculous demands. I had given them my updated contact information but they still sent the initial demand package to my exhusband. He sent it back to them, so I still don’t know what the contents were. I did receive an email with the rediculous demands to send them 10K and destroy my machines, sell them for scrap, and send them the money and the receipt. That was just too funny! I couldn’t imagine anyone actually doing this! But then I read a horror story of someone who did. :(

    My advice is to close your bank account so they can’t draft any more fees, and don’t send them a dime. Also, tell everyone you know who owns a club about your experience with CI. Remember what we learned at Club Camp, “Word of mouth is your best advertising.” I don’t think anyone will renew their contract if they know CI has lost their minds, as well as their business sense. I put my machines in storage because I can’t find anyone to buy them at a fair price. So far, I haven’t heard anything else from CI.

    It was hard to make the decision to close, even when losing as much money as I was, but now I am recovering and don’t regret it a bit. I understand what you are going through. I almost went bankrupt out of fear of what CI would do, but decided to wait. Now, I’m glad I did. I haven’t hired an attorney or gone after them either.

    My advice: Don’t sign anything with CI or send them any money until a judge tells you face to face what it is that you have to do. There IS life after Curves! May God bless you and keep you in the palm of His hand!

  824. Still in the nightmare on June 26th, 2010 6:20 pm

    It is an abandoment one. I’ve talked to Robert before, but it’s been awhile and I can’t remember everything. I’ll get with you in the next few days as I’m out of town. Thanks for the response. I can only hope that CI goes down the tubes, but not at the expense of the struggling owners – for them I wish the BEST in whatever situation but personally I think they would do much better without the franchise nose in their business.

  825. Justine Curver on June 26th, 2010 7:05 pm

    Unhappy thank you for having resources to share.
    I live in WA state, where state law supercedes everything written in the Curves contract, (this is true in most states re: contracts where business is conducted locally and transactions are less than a million dollars:)). I have checked w/ 2 lawyers who’ve confirmed how I’ve read the state laws: WA state basically nullifies CI’s claims and also requires all court actions to be in WA state courts!). It’s nice to know (from Unhappy) that Texas does too. For a while I’ve been joking with friends that if I visit Texas again I’ll have to use an alias.
    I was consulting with Bankruptcy attorneys – for free- when I got that information about my state law. Both of them said to put it into the bankruptcy filing and expect the bankruptcy trustee to throw it out because it’s an invalid demand under state law.
    Good luck.

  826. Justine Curver on June 26th, 2010 7:11 pm

    This is just a flight of fantasy: if only we could file a class action lawsuit against Curves for adding the unneccessary mental burden of delaing with their intimidation vis-a-vis the demand letters for payments for closing and the demands for the return of equipment. Too many poor souls have lost sleep and money over their demands, at a time when they are already suffering from the demise of their business!
    I’m sure there are legal loopholes for their behavior, and of course there were some signs to indicate they would act this way, but it has just been wrong!
    that’s all.
    just venting.
    thanks.

  827. Still in the nightmare on June 28th, 2010 10:25 pm

    The proof is in the financial numbers – I finally got my tax documents together and I wonder how I held my doors open so long. My 2009 LOSS was over $11,000. CI took $5k of that in their fees. That’s $11,000 that could have taken my husband, my two young children (whom I raised partly at my club because I could not afford a sitter), and myself on one HECK of a nice vacation – or paid my car off – or any other number of bills that probably wouldn’t be there if it weren’t for my trying to stick it out. Why did I stay open – fear of CI retaliation, love of members, and naive thoughts about things getting better. I bought a franchise, dang it, and it’s supposed to WORK – right???? If you are thinking about closing, aren’t paying yourself (hardly a penny in my personal pocket in 2+ years), finding you are taking family money and throwing it at your club in a fruitless attempt to remain open – close. Don’t look back and wish you’d closed $10,999 sooner.

  828. unhappy on June 29th, 2010 2:41 am

    ■Still in the nightmare

    You are so right about the reasons for staying open “fear of CI retaliation, love of members, and naive thoughts about things getting better” but thanks to this site most owners are aware that the fear of retaliation from CI is just intimidation and nothing more as there is nothing that CI can do to an owner once you have closed. CI will threaten and try to intimidate you into paying the closing fee, franchise fees and advertising fees but it is illegal in the state of TX for them to do so. Owners don’t be intimidated by the threats and extortion tactics used be Howie and don’t pay him a dime after you close………

  829. jd on June 29th, 2010 10:59 am

    Unhappy states:

    ‘CI will threaten and try to intimidate you into paying the closing fee, franchise fees and advertising fees but it is illegal in the state of TX for them to do so’

    Can you please show the law that states it is illegal to charge the franchise fee and advertising fees after closing? If this were the case, wouldn’t the countersuits in the Texas case (looks like it won’t go to trial until 2011 now) been dismissed?

  830. jd on June 29th, 2010 11:04 am

    Nightmare states:

    ‘The proof is in the financial numbers – I finally got my tax documents together and I wonder how I held my doors open so long.’

    Let me get this straight, it’s June 28 (when you posted) and you are now just realizing how your store fared for 2009??

    Why did it take you so long to know how you did in 2009? I think this is the problem with some small business owners, they just don’t know how good/bad they are doing, because they don’t keep up with it. This person is 6 months behind on their accounting and who knows how much money they’ve wasted in variable costs over the last six months.

  831. Still in the nightmare on June 29th, 2010 11:49 am

    Id,
    So sweet of you for pointing out not the purpose of my post but my latency in getting my bottom line numbers down. You’ve no idea what mitigating factors caused the delay in getting my final data together, but you have missed the entire point – close before you sink more money in that you will never, ever, ever, ever – did I say EVER? – get back out. .

    I would think that most of us come here looking for help and direction. I didn’t realize this was the shoulda’, woulda’, why didn’t ya’ place. If we are here, we are already past that point and pointing out perceived flaws seems a bit like kicking someone when they are already down. The fact is, we are either on the brink of losing our business or have already lost it and just want to know what’s in store for us next – not what we should have done in hindsight.

  832. Dee on June 29th, 2010 12:28 pm

    jd,
    Really, why do you find the need to continuously comment negatively on what people post on this site? I don’t recall anyone asking for your criticism or for your sage advice on how to be a better business person.

    We are all pretty much past that point–we all have the same stories, we’ve lost a ton of money, gone bankrupt, closed our Curves–and we’re really here just to tell those stories, vent a little, and just bind as a group. We are here so that those who are in the process of closing can get some direction, not to be intimidated by Curves, nor pay them a cent more. It is the hope that anyone considering buying a Curves, will come across this site and reconsider doing so.

    We are here to support each other that yes, we’ve all been there, and no, we’re not alone, and from sharing our experiences, that we can now hopefully go forward in our lives.

    When people are beaten down, they don’t need to be kicked. Really, your criticism and negative comments are totally unwanted.

  833. unhappy on June 29th, 2010 12:47 pm

    ■Still in the nightmare,
    Thank you for your post and don’t let the a– h— scare you away from this site. We all just ignore his posts and don’t respond to worthless commints. Him and Howie are the perfect mates and are obviously in bed togeather. Let them go f— themselfs.

  834. Elizabeth on June 29th, 2010 3:35 pm

    Still in the nightmare,
    I totally agree with you. Once I closed my club 2 months ago I just wanted some answers, I received some great advice on this site. The “person” who commented is probably one of Howie’s wannabees and has never owned a Curves or a business for that matter. Totally ignore him because he has no idea what he talking about. My husband and I laugh about his comments all the time… its quite entertaining.

  835. jd on June 30th, 2010 2:49 pm

    Elizabeth, laugh all you want. Personally, I shake my head at many of the commments made by many of your fellow failed franchisees. As far as owning a business, I am an owner of a business, and as another job I’ve seen how people run their franchised businesses.

    I’m going to pick on ‘Nightmare’ here for a second. She stated that she had just realized that six months after the fact her club lost $11k for 2009 for tax purposes and sounds as if she is resigned to the fact that she is going to close her store. Okay, so losing $11k/year isn’t a good thing, but it’s not an amount that could probably be overcome by changes in expenses, and maybe a few more members. However, having not looked at her finances until 6 months later, she’s probably lost another $5-6k this year. Also, something that needs to be considered before closing her gym, is whether her rent and debt are more than $11k/year. If it is and unless she declares bankruptcy, then she’ll be on the hook for more than the $11k she lost this year.

    As for Unhappy, he’s just upset that he’s being challenged on his ‘facts’. The name calling is typical (although very un-Christian), and I’m not going to stoop to name calling, although I don’t think that’s the type of forum that the Admin wants here. I’m hopeful that he didn’t give any ‘advice’ to the franchisee in NY that didn’t respond to a lawsuit back in March and now has a default judgment against them for everything that Curves asked for (including future royalties/ad fees).

    Here’s something to think about for all of the people on here, think back to when you were doing your due diligence for buying your Curves. Odds are you were hearing all of the ‘right’ things from the Curves people and probably ignored other factors because you didn’t want to hear them. Now, looking back on it, you are kicking yourself, because you didn’t pay attention to any ‘red flags’. Fast forward to now, Unhappy is telling you all of the ‘right’ things, believe them if you want, but who is to say what you are hearing is wrong in a couple of years and you are in worse shape.

  836. Jenny past Curves employee on July 4th, 2010 5:51 pm

    I use to work for a Curves, the owner closed the doors and didn’t pay us for 2 months, she didn’t give any notice to the members ,some took her to court, but to no avail yet, but she has one still open 30 minutes away, How can that be? how does that work? She closed so fast she even kept some members old sneakers !! I feel sorry for the employees that have worked for curves, yes they were not the “owners” but still good people who lost their jobs, I’ve moved on, became a Nurse, but I still think of how bad that Christmas of 08 was, closing and not caring! Not paying us, or the members, but she still goes on in another town!! She must of been trained well by that Gary H!!

  837. Wipedout on July 5th, 2010 12:38 am

    JD, do you go to online cancer survivor support group sites and tell them they shouldn’t have smoked, shouldn’t have gotten sunburns or should have eaten more fruits and vegetables, too?

  838. unhappy on July 5th, 2010 9:03 am

    Jenny,
    I admit there are some owners who are just down right disgusting and just as crooked as Howie. It is unbeleveable that the employees had no recourse as most states have state boards that you can go to and collect past wages. while we certainly don’t condone the owners action, we really can’t hold Howie responsible for that type of behavior although it does sound like somthing from his play book. Thanks for posting your story.

  839. KM on July 5th, 2010 10:32 pm

    JD I’m curious to know what would you suggest for all of us to do that are still open and have nothing left to put into the business to keep it alive during these trying times?

  840. endofmyropeisanoose on July 6th, 2010 1:11 pm

    Jenny:
    Sorry to hear you were treated like that! Can you sue against her bond?

    KM:
    I was wondering the same thing. Most of us who are facing closing have:
    1) Become our only employee.
    2) Handled pounding the pavement in our “free hours”.
    3) Stopped keeping anything in stock.
    4) Used our savings to stay open.
    5) Give NOTHING away for free.
    6) Cut our sign-up fee.
    7) Watched our members loose their jobs and quit in droves.

    Some clubs are small, and could never get that far ahead to plan for this rainy day. It is easy to critique from the sideline.
    This is a ‘luxury” item that women do cut in tough times. It is hard to justify $ spent at Curves when your family is on a shoestring. I live in Nevada, and it seems as if everyone has lost jobs and hours! I can’t fault the members for needing to quit.
    So…..with all due respect, someone like jd will not make me feel bad. I hope others will hold their heads high too!
    Thanx unhappy for this place to go. And thanx to Robert for the kind ear…..

  841. Connie on July 6th, 2010 2:41 pm

    unhappy,
    I am looking forward to the new yahoo site. Any word on when it might be up and running?
    To all other owners – hang in there! Sounds like unhappy and the yahoo group will give us much needed advice.

  842. unhappy on July 7th, 2010 2:36 pm

    To all curves owners there is a new story in the WSJ that all owners should read. Go to Here is a link to the full article:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704862404575351293938715632.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews Also owners should send an email to the author telling them about their reasons for closing so that they will do a continuing article about all the lawsuits and unethical, immoral and sometimes illegal business tacics Howie is using.

  843. Curves Owner2 on July 7th, 2010 5:36 pm

    Unhappy,
    I knew you’d be on top of things.
    Thank you!

  844. endofmyropeisanoose on July 7th, 2010 6:38 pm

    Wow….if closing some Curves was part of a secret “pruning plan” then it seems as if they owe US money. Afterall, this covert action was a plan of Mike Raymond’s
    ……..right? Hmmmmm

  845. unhappy on July 8th, 2010 1:30 am

    Here is another WSJ story but on yahoo it is an iteresting read except it’s filled with nothing but lies. Diane was a founding partner? Howie and Diane just keep rewriting the history of Curves to fit into their made up lies.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB111997621750071717.html?mod=yahoo_free

  846. Undecided on July 8th, 2010 4:07 am

    Unhappy–Did you notice the date that article was published……July of 2005! Yes, and it is certainly not the truth. Also an owner who is quoted in the other WSJ article has stated on the owner’s group that in 8-12 months Curves is headed for an abrupt change. Heavin, Raymond, and Curves as we know it. are on the way out . And I think that has been said here on this site also.

  847. Wipedout on July 8th, 2010 9:40 am

    The company disagrees with its critics, contending that much of the club closings were intended as part of a plan to “prune the system,” according to Curves President Mike Raymond.

    NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR!

  848. endofmyropeisanoose on July 8th, 2010 10:26 am

    I’m not abandoning my club.
    I am “voluntarily paticipating in the pruning plan”.

  849. Curves Owner2 on July 8th, 2010 10:30 am

    The business model allowed a franchisee to make a profit with as few as 100 members, Mr. Heavin once said.

    Yet, More than 1,000 Curves vanished across the country in 2009…

    I assume the clubs are closing because they don’t have 100 members. If so, then why don’t they have 100 members?

    Is Curves International promoting the Curves name and bringing more members into the clubs? If not, why not?

  850. Km on July 8th, 2010 12:32 pm

    endofmyropeisanoose, I love that “I am voluntarily paticipating in the pruning plan”. I am definitely going to use that at the end of this month when I close and call them to let them now.
    Thanks

  851. CURVES: 1000 Franchise Clubs Failed Last Year : Unhappy Franchisee on July 8th, 2010 12:48 pm

    [...] Read 850+ Comments from Curves franchise owners. [...]

  852. ADMIN on July 8th, 2010 12:58 pm

    Here’s the first of two posts on the WSJ article. Your comments welcome:

    CURVES: 1000 Franchise Clubs Failed Last Year

    I will post the 2nd – on President Raymond’s characterization of Curves franchisees both as having “investor” rather than “owner” mindsets AND as being deadwood that needed to be pruned as part of CI’s master plan – when I get my breath back.

    I’d appreciate any reaction to those statements you might have had. Also, reaction to the CI earnings disclosure.

  853. unhappy on July 10th, 2010 10:43 am

    We should all send Howie and Rayassmond a box of prunes along with a roll of toilet paper so they can flush themselves down the toilet. I’m sure all they are hearing is the whooshing sound as Curves all over the world get flushed down the toilet because of their pruning process.

  854. CURVES Franchise Owners React to Comments That They’re Being “Pruned” : Unhappy Franchisee on July 10th, 2010 5:17 pm

    [...] Robert Lay’s Story (Featuring 850+ Curves franchisee comments) [...]

  855. Curves Owner 2 on July 11th, 2010 1:28 am

    Unhappy,

    Your comment – We should all send Howie and Rayassmond a box of prunes along with a roll of toilet paper so they can flush themselves down the toilet. I’m sure all they are hearing is the whooshing sound as Curves all over the world get flushed down the toilet because of their pruning process.

    So funny :)

    Thank you

  856. Susie Clubowner on July 11th, 2010 11:16 am

    Just wanted to let endofmyrope (and anyone else who’s interested), I’m closing my club August 31st. By the way I posted the Wall St Journal ad on my bulletin board for all my members to see.
    CI doesn’t seem to realize, the more they bully me or try to
    extort money from me, the more badmouthing I will do…..word definitely spreads and not one of my members has a shred of respect left for CI after seeing what I
    went through. They all know how hard I worked!
    I have NOT responded to CI since they sent that threat about the $10K other than
    to say a). I’m closing my club ethically, I’m NOT abandoning it, all of my members
    have been kept in the loop, my annual prepays are being refunded, etc. etc.
    and b). I OWN my equipment, no way can they tell me what to do with any of it.
    Lastly I sent a comment re: the WSJ article, CI is so behind the times it isn’t funny, that ‘pruning’ statement was what they were saying at last year’s convention when I joined. NOW what can they say? I am the ‘prunee’ after the
    first owner was ‘pruned’. And I failed too! And I WAS THERE every single day,
    and invested every penny I had, and did it ‘the Curves way’ (which by the way
    is something out of the 1950s!!!!)
    If I were CI and I wanted to say in business I would do the following:
    - Start sending more FREE stuff to their franchises, particularly posters and
    advertising material (and for pete’s sake don’t charge for Diane magazine)
    - Start ADVERTISING on TV like, 500% more than they are now
    - Partner with Weight Watchers for the diet portion instead of trying to
    re-invent the wheel with their too-complicated ’3 phase’ diet
    - Start LISTENING to their franchises instead of being so defensive.
    The whole CULTURE at CI is defensive! My area director couldn’t/wouldn’t
    listen to ANY complaints or suggestions. The things she had to tell us, I’m
    wondering how she could SLEEP at night.
    - The buddy referral system is LAUGHABLE. In today’s day and age people
    aren’t going to give our their friends phone #s…..and even if they do, their
    friends are going to screen their calls and hit DELETE. Basically CI is using
    a game of 1950′s telephone tag to get new members. It’s laughable.
    What PLANET is CI on?
    LOL

  857. ADMIN on July 11th, 2010 12:24 pm

    Curves franchise owners, past and present, are invited to add their reactions to Mike Raymond’s comments here:

    CURVES Franchise Owners React to Comments That They’re Being “Pruned”

    If you emailed Richard Gibson or Mike Raymond, feel free to share the text of your message. CI will be invited to respond and/or clarify what the plan to “prune the system” entails.

    Raymond will no doubt claim that he was misquoted or quoted out of context. But the statement rings true. At least publicly, Curves International continues to express no real empathy for the thousands of owners losing their businesses, nor any urgency in stemming the tide of closures.

    Mike Raymond’s statement about the closures being the fault of franchisees with “investor” (?) mentalities is consistent with Gary Heavin’s blaming the high Curves SBA default rate simply on overpriced resales.

    In both cases, CI has publicly explained that the closures were solely the franchisees’ faults for being greedy, not working their clubs, and not following the system. If you have an alternative view, please add it to the comments on the linked post. Otherwise, the media will simply write the official explanation into the official history of Curves International.

  858. Sadderbutwiser on July 11th, 2010 1:39 pm

    “Curves should have capped the number of clubs at 4,000 to 5,000.”

    I wrote that two years ago as part of the first response to Robert Lay’s post. Now I see it was all part of a cynical plan by Curves to oversaturate the market, then let “pruning” take place. That “pruning” process, which has now occurred, cost my family our beautiful home, most of our life savings and our peace of mind.

    I hope Zarco and Einhorn subscribe to the WSJ!

  859. CURVES: Curves Posts on Unhappy Franchisee : Unhappy Franchisee on July 11th, 2010 5:08 pm

    [...] CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story March 10, 2009  (854 Comments) [...]

  860. Km on July 12th, 2010 7:48 am

    I received this e-mail from my Curves Central Florida Association Coordinator to our Area director, cc Mike Raymond, and Curves Franchise Association. I tried the number myself and put in the zip I live in, which the Curves closed there, it didn’t mention my club which is 9 miles away or the two other clubs that are about the same distance, maybe closer. Is this the ExLax way to Prunes?

    Hi Julie, (area director)

    I called 800-Curves-30 (800-287-8373) and used option 2 which allows the caller to enter the zip code to find the nearest Curves. The recording said, “We’re sorry. Currently there are no Curves clubs in your area”.

    In addition to the main Curves 800 number several other Curves numbers have the same message.

    800-367-8050
    800-615-7352
    866-560-7614
    877-528-8434
    877-792-8129

    I tried several other zip codes where active Curves clubs are located including my own club. I received the same erroneous message.

    This is very disheartening. We are all struggling to convince the public that we are all still around and open for business. Meanwhile, Curves 800 numbers are telling the world the opposite; that there are “no Curves left in your area”.

    The 800 numbers will discourage anyone from trying to find a Curves.

    A portion of the 3% advertising fees are spent maintaining these 800 numbers which are currently putting out erroneous and detrimental information.

    Julie, Please look into this matter as soon as possible. It is imperative that it be corrected.

  861. Km on July 12th, 2010 11:49 am

    This was the response we got back from Mike Rayond:

    Thanks. We’ll look into it right away.

  862. ADMIN on July 12th, 2010 1:32 pm

    Fitness company scaling back
    http://www.indystar.com/article/20100712/BUSINESS/7120315/1003/Fitness-company-Curves-is-scaling-back

    “Curves says the closings were simply about weeding out the poorly performing franchises and keeping profitable, well-run facilities.

    “‘Many of the club closings in 2009 were part of a plan to prune the system,’ said Kathy Carr, a spokeswoman for Curves, headquartered in Waco, Texas.”

  863. Wipedout on July 12th, 2010 2:41 pm

    Curves is still using that incredibly callous word “pruning.” Looks like it wasn’t a misquote.

  864. Jackie on July 12th, 2010 8:21 pm

    Anyone who is thinking about opening up a Curves Franchisee should stop thinking about it!!! Please, I am telling you, not to do it. Yes, it is nice to never have to work for someone else again, have your own thing going, make your own decisions, etc. But, you have no support system at all, I am not the most business savy person, or the best person with words, but, I care about people and how I treat them. I only had my business for ONE year, let me tell you, I will not blame one person, some of the blame I do put on myself, I should have never trusted anyone, especially when it comes to getting rid of a business, they are not going to be totally honest because they are trying to unload something that is costing them money not making them money. Damn, why didn’t I just stop and think about that once, instead of being all hyped up about running my own thing… NOT WORTH IT!!! Never once, did I hear from an AD, don’t even know her name in this area. Surprised, anyone, honestly I was…So you can call me stupid, whatever, I expected more than that!! Whatever happens, happens. I have NO money to give anyone, about lost our house and now I am working 12hr. swing shifts. Just, thankfully I do have a job and trying to get things straightened out…

  865. unhappy on July 12th, 2010 11:00 pm

    Jackie,
    Thanks for posting and you are so right about no support what so ever!! You have the right attitude so keep it up Jackie you will make it in the long run. Good luck in the future and God Bless.

  866. unhappy on July 12th, 2010 11:11 pm

    Jackie,
    Thanks for posting Jackie and you are so right!!!! Good luck and God bless

  867. HusCurves Fan on July 13th, 2010 11:42 am

    So my mom and I have owned our club, which was a re-sale, since January 2008. At the time, the bank, attorney and tax advisor all said what a great investment this would be. All of our paperwork was finished before the economy started tanking. I can’t say that if we were in the same situation today that we’d even be able to get a loan. However, what’s happened can’t be changed.

    At first we made some major changes – repainted the club, increased hours (especially in the a.m. which was closing at 10:30am, so we started closing at 1pm) and the ladies were excited that the owners were always here. We work all the hours. We have no employees. Shortly after, CurvesSmart came out and we leased it for 3 years. Our membership increased and I was actually able to start taking somewhat of a “paycheck” in April 2009.

    Flash forward to now. Our membership has dropped. I have not gotten “paid” for about 5 months. We no longer have samples of products because they’ll sit on our shelf forever. This is one of the worst summer’s for attendance since we’ve been owners.

    My mom and I discuss alot and we both agree that Curves gets some things right, but mostly they have been getting alot of things wrong lately. First, we were both memebrs at different clubs and LOVED it. Thirty minutes was perfect and we truly believe that the circuit works if you want to put in the effort. I lost 25 lbs. just by starting the Curves workout and watching what I ate. That’s the main reason we decided to own our own club. Curves manages to draw in a group of women that would NEVER have thought about setting foot in a gym. Curves does not discriminate against age, fitness level, income, etc. All ladies should feel comfortable.

    Here’s what they get wrong:

    * Advertising – day late and a dollar short – weight managment commercials should be bombarding the TV stations beginning in December, not in the summer. Also, why advertise on TNT or any cable channel? Some of our members don’t even have cable, so they could care less about the Stronger Together promotion on TNT right now! Instead of all the online ads, put the money into ads on the major networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox) during, oh, let’s just say American Idol, where the same demographics apply. How many times have ladies come into the club and talked about AI or Dancing with the Stars! Obviously, Cheryl Burke (DWTS) is a spokesperson for Jazzercise and I understand that it’s fairly costly to get a spoksperson, but we had an amazing opportunity with Olivia Newton-John and the LivAid. Why wasn’t that relationship built on? Some of the advertising we do locally is waaaay out of our price range. Getting the local media to do anything for us is a joke. Curves should consider going back to their “grassroots” and start a national campaign with billboards across the country along with advertising on the major networks.

    * Products – the fact that we haven’t had a new clothing line is absurd! We have a few t-shirts and a ton of water bottles to choose from, but members are looking for workout gear. The Stronger Together shirts are too expensive and the fact that a small club like ours would have to buy items in bulk just to sell one and then not make back what we even spent is not worth the effort to show the members in our club. The workout milestone t-shirts all in purple helped us. We were giving away each milestone. When they changed it to all purple, we decided to only offer 100, 500, and 1000. If they want any of the others, we actually make a couple bucks. But you only can own so many purple t-shirts!
    I could go on about other examples, but…

    I feel that I am more unsettled because of recent events. In our metro area alone, one club has closed (May) and four others in our state are for sale (one of which is right next to our territory). We decided to send out a letter to our current members mentioning the recent closings across the US and the fact that some clubs have permanently reduced hours. Ladies have heard stories or noticed these changes while traveling. We wanted to reassure them that we are not closing. Our timing wasn’t planned, but we mailed these letters on June 28. Then, on July 7 the WSJ article appeared. By July 10 it was on the MSN home page with a photo of the circuit. Low and behold, I have had several members mention this article to me or my mom. What is most disheartening is that we have not gotten a single email from corporate with any rebuttal.

    I was thinking that Monday morning there would have been an email from the top people. But as of today, not a thing. Nothing. Will they address this? It’s awfully quiet and I am concerned how this is going to affect any membership drive we are trying to get going. After hearing about the article, I stumbled upon many websites, including this one and have read through many postings.

    I still feel that Curves works for those willing to stick with the circuit routine. Many women have unfortunately been left high and dry with the closing of clubs, but many of us are still trying to stay open through all of the hard times. But, something’s got to give and we are hanging on as best we can for now so that our members do have a place to go. But right now, I need some kind of response from corporate so that I don’t get too bitter.

  868. endofmyropeisanoose on July 13th, 2010 1:53 pm

    Jackie….I absolutely agree. Someone called me to ask what I thought about her buying the Curves 6 miles away from me that closed in December! And yes: she was serious.
    I told her my opinion, but doesn’t look like she listened. I even suggested she check out this site before deciding. Maybe she did….who knows.
    Best of luck to her! I wish no one ill will, but I don’t see how she can last long. After all, there was a reason why they closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Best of luck Jackie, Susie, et al

  869. Still in the Nightmare - But Waking Up on July 13th, 2010 10:13 pm

    The recent articles were yet another slap in the face to owners who had no choice but to close before our time. My thought on the pruning is this:

    You can’t get fruit to grow from a pruned, discarded branch. Since CI planned for our clubs to close as part of a pruning process, they shouldn’t be demanding any amount of monetary fruit.

  870. unhappy on July 13th, 2010 11:10 pm

    They will still try to intimidate owners who they pruned for more monetary fruit but owners need to know their rights and should not pay them a dime not one more dime !!!!!!!!

  871. endofmyropeisanoose on July 14th, 2010 12:20 am

    Did anyone’s closing letter say “We understand that unfortunately at times circumstances may arise leaving few options other than proceeding with the closing of your franchise’, but state that they will still charge you a ‘minimal monetary payment”? Sounds odd…..

  872. unhappy on July 14th, 2010 11:33 pm

    It used to be caled the closing fee but now it’s just a minimal monitary payment. Is 10,000 minimal in anyone’s eyes? They of course lower it down to between 1000 to 3000 what ever they think they squeese out of you..DON’T PAY THEM A DIME ITS ALL INTIMIDATION AND EXTORTION AND HOWIE KNOWS HE CAN’T COLLECT A NICKLE MUCH LESS A DIME.

  873. unhappy on July 15th, 2010 10:05 am

    Curves International changes it’s business tactics more than Howie changes his underware but one thing remains consistant. Howie still tries to rip off owners for more money by using intimidation and extortion …….

  874. unhappy on July 15th, 2010 6:18 pm

    curves owner 2,
    why would you even try to carry on a conversation with such an assh–e. He has never owned a Curves, tells nothing but lies and tries to put every owner down as if they are the reason they failed. It is obvious that he is pro Howie and yet still tries to deny that he is. He has absolutely no business sense and never will. Most of us on this board just ignore him and don’t even read his posts. That makes him very mad and it shows as he than attacks more but who cares his opinion is worthless. We all consider him a sick joke and by not responding he throws his tantrum and tries to say all the advice we give is incorrect. We have all found if we just ignore his posts he disappears for awhile and than like a bad apple comes back. Obviously he has way too much time on his hands and is probably an unemployed garbage collector who’s wife left him high and dry and he tries to make everyone around him as miserable I he is. “Why even respond to such idiotic posts from someone who knows nothing about what the Curves owners have had to go through with Howie’s unethical, immoral and sometimes illegal business tactics. He really should do due diligence on his own life or maybe look in a mirror and realize what a despicable person he has become. We all feel sorry for him and hope some day he will grow up but until then just ignore him!!!!!

  875. endofmyropeisanoose on July 15th, 2010 8:27 pm

    Thank you unhappy for everything you do here….

    FYI all….My closing date is set for July 31st. Looking forward to having a life again!!!! Whew………..

  876. jd on July 15th, 2010 8:37 pm

    Unhappy, you’re the one that brings in the childish name calling and obviously have way too much time on your hands. You don’t give your ‘followers’ all of the information, and that’s where I come in. You don’t respond, because you can’t.

    As for your new suggestion of a franchise people should join, why would you even suggest people go back into a franchise. Isn’t that what people want to get away from. Wonder if you have some sort of monetary gain to make of it.

    As for calling people a__holes. Respect the admin. When you start your private group (again wasn’t that supposed to start a couple of weeks ago), then feel free to call people what you want, but it’s pretty disrespectful to the admin. It really brings out that ‘christian’ side in you.

    Thankfully, you know nothing about me. Admin actually likes the fact that I post on here. People need to take responsibility and quit blaming others.

  877. unhappy on July 15th, 2010 10:12 pm

    ■endofmyropeisanoose

    You are more than welcome endofmyropeisanoose and dont let individuals who know nothing about Curves try to put you down. Just ignore their posts and let them make ass out of themselfs. It’s not worth trying to explain anything to them as if their brains were explosives they wouldn’t have enough to blow their own nose. It is obvious that some people just have an overwhelming desire to butt into threads that they have no knowledge of. They were probably picked on as kids, lack bonding with their mothers, and have many other personal problems. They really need to see a psycholgist before they become postal but the way to deal with them is to just ignore them. As you can see it really pisses them off. Ha Ha

  878. jd on July 15th, 2010 10:30 pm

    Actually, you are the one going ‘postal’ by calling people a__holes, and putting down garbage collectors (although I’m sure you wouldn’t want to live without them). Hell, you get pissed off to the point that you post the same thing three times on one thread and put one line comments on threads to push my topics down.

    You just get upset that someone disagrees with you. You get upset when I tell you that things have changed in the group action lawsuit. In my opinion, you are possibly putting these people in a position that they could lose more (ie the franchisees that were added as third party defendants to the group action).

    Look at the article that I posted written by attorneys talking about in-term non-compete agreements (which you say that are unenforceable, yet they seem to think they could be enforced).

    As for your pathetic personal attacks, it doesn’t bother me. I think it shows that I’m a much stronger person for that. Thanks for making me realize how old people can be so bitter when someone disagrees with them.

    Looking forward to the day that you get your Yahoo group started (or are you going to let us all down)

  879. Lucas on July 16th, 2010 9:02 am

    thanks unhappy for your postings here and for the time you spend standing up for curves owners. two things though really disturb me and make me not want to return here.

    one of the things you hate about howie is that he doesn’t listen to other peoples ideas and doesnt respect any ideas that arent his own. i would think that you would try to be different but to be homnest dont you do the same thing? i dont agree with jd about things but this is america and i think we should respect peoples right to have differnet opinions. you come off as a bully like howie. cant you respectfully disagree?

    the other thing is that you stoop to crudeness and vulgarity which lowers your credibility. I can just see howie and his supporters dismissing everyone here as crackpots when you call people a-holesor farts in the wind, etc.

    its too bad because i agree with you and disagree with him but he has the right to disagree with you and its too bad you can’t be civil and professional about it.

  880. Elizabeth on July 16th, 2010 11:00 am

    I, for one, do not like the name calling from anyone. Its immature and unprofessional. BUT my complaint against jd or anomymous is he criticizes owners and belittles their business practices when he has never owned a Curves. Owning a Curves is the only way you can understand what you have to go thru during the actual running of the club and then realizing you have to close your doors. If jd wants to help, give only facts, not opinion. Don’t criticize an owner when you have no idea what he/she is going thru. At least unhappy has been there..done that.

  881. jd on July 16th, 2010 11:20 am

    Elizabeth, while I do come off as ‘belittling’ people there is a reason for it. First, people post their stories on here and other franchise websites and don’t give the whole story. For example, a few years ago, someone told their story and was asking for all of this help and saying how bad the franchisor was (very well known name). and how they were terminating their franchise agreement. What they didn’t tell people was that they had been late on payments (kindof a big part of the story).

    Second, I ask these questions, because there were mistakes made in the due diligence process. Imagine if someone came across this website thinking about buying a franchise reads my critiques of Curves Owner 2, and takes those into consideration when doing their due diligence.

    You and Lucas, respectifully disagreeing with people is how people learn and I appreciate your input. While Unhappy believes that his advice is all that matters and says that I ‘lie’, I’m providing other sides to think about. Unhappy is not a lawyer and when he comes out and states that transfer fees are illegal and that non-compete agreements are unenforcable, it makes me hope that people are taking that as the truth, because they could get burnt in the end.

  882. Undecided on July 16th, 2010 11:54 am

    It has been reported on the Yahoo Owners group that a few Curves franchises in the Dover, DE area have converted to a franchise called Ladies First Fitness. It sounds like it has equipment similar to Curves, but has a lot of add ons, and a kid zone, etc. Has anyone heard of this franchise?

    And it has also been stated on that website that Curves clubs are closing at the rate of 70+ per month….that figure is just since March. Doesn’t sound too good for Howie & Co., now does it.??

  883. Lucas on July 16th, 2010 12:01 pm

    jd ive just read through a lot of your past comments. you make the point that franchisees should have done their due diligence and probably not bought a curves. great. we get it. few who have lost so much would disagree that they made a mistake. point taken. no need to make it again and again.

    you feel that most of the problems were caused by overpriced resales bought by gullible buyers. Sure it was a factor but 1/3 of all clubs closed because they overpaid? not because maybe some of the $16M in profit should have been used in advertising or innovations to add value or offset dwindling memberships? OK… that’s your opinion and it’s been stated.

    you make the point that unhappy is a hothead and spouts a lot of opinions as fact. his opinions should be taken with a grain of salt and checked with a real attorney. point made. point taken.

    Youve been heard. No need to keep coming back again and again rubbing it in the face of people who are facing foreclosure and sometimes unbearable strains on their families. ok, you’re smarter than unhappy and every failing curves owner. your hindsite is 20/20. congrats. but unhappy does have something you don’t: compassion and the experience of having been through this.

    Your points are made. Please move on elsewhere and spend your time more productively like lecturing the homeless on the street about their poor life decisions or pulling the wings off flies.

  884. jd on July 16th, 2010 12:34 pm

    Lucas, point taken, but when things are repeated by Unhappy or others, it’s fair game to repeat it. Sorry, but people might not read through 800+posts.

    About the $16M in profit, at this point Heavin is going to take all the profit he can get (and that $16M is from operations, not the separate Marketing funds). He knows the brand is going to die off, so why re-invest it. Curves was a fad that is going away. There are fitness places all over now (hell when I moved into my community there were no fitness places outside a 10 mile radius except for 2 Curves, they are both gone, but there are now 2 24/7 places and a newer Y). If you were in year 9 of a 10 year franchise agreement, would you re-invest your profit if you knew you were soon to be done?

    Lucas, don’t worry I will remain on the website, as I have been here since it’s beginnings (well before Curves became a topic).

  885. Lucas on July 16th, 2010 12:47 pm

    jd perhaps instead of beating the dead horse you could actually offer some ideas for what you would do in these owner’s positions besides sit in a room and beat themselves up.

    if CI really is ok with letting struggling or marginal clubs go, then maybe those on the fence should just try and make a go of it on their own, ignore curves form ltrs and collection agents and make the changes they think should be made with lower overhead and no fees to CI.

    i do find the suggestion of converting to a different franchise beyond ludicrous. If anything, curves owners should start a co-op with a shared name and marketing materials.

  886. Tell It Like It Is on July 16th, 2010 12:56 pm

    jd, many of us have posted on this thread, and we don’t repost our thoughts again and again “because people might not read through 800+ posts.” What arrogance, to think your ideas are so important. You are so harsh toward former owners, yet you “care” enough to continue to repost your “superior” thoughts? NOT. It’s all about you.

  887. jd on July 16th, 2010 1:54 pm

    Lucas, I agree that at this point, it would be easier to de-identify and open as an independent, but it’s up to the owner as to how to do it.

    You could take Unhappy & your advice and just change names and stop sending in royalty payments. The question you have to ask yourself, is whether you want to be worried about Curves coming back at you a year or two down the road (depending on if another group action lawsuit is filed, you could get thrown in as a third-part defendant). If you do that, I would hold back some money for possible legal fees.

    I posted a link to an article written by a law firm dated in May 2010. It’s recommendation on ‘in-term’ non-compete agreements was to discuss a deal with the zor. I think it’s a good, well-balanced read for anyone thinking about de-identifying..

    http://www.larkinhoffman.com/files/OTHER/Non-Compete.pdf

    Lastly, close and file bankruptcy and start everything all over again.

    ‘tell it’ Please go through all of the threads and see how many times Unhappy has ‘reminded’ people to go the BBB website.

  888. S on July 16th, 2010 3:14 pm

    So, now Curves if down to a little more than 4700 locations in the US — down from the 10,000+ they boasted about. I hardly think there is anything Christian (or any other religion) that could support Curves. ANY good organization would support their franchisees, but instead Curves took our initial money for the franchise and now they’re says we’re being weeded out. If I had know they were going to do that, I never would have invested. We had over 1500 members at one time, and had problems with a neighboring Curves, who was an unethical as CI. We asked CI for their help and Mike Raymond said he’d look into it. There were so many complaints against the other Curves, from legal, to members, police reports, complaints from his neighboring tenants, and guess what CI did about it — zero!! We closed that Curves with little more than 150 members — down from 1500. We’ve been weeded. CI is an unethical, greedy organization. Kudos to those franchisees that opened under a different name.

  889. Curves Owner2 on July 16th, 2010 3:42 pm

    jd,

    Your statement, “Second, I ask these questions, because there were mistakes made in the due diligence process. Imagine if someone came across this website thinking about buying a franchise reads my critiques of Curves Owner 2, and takes those into consideration when doing their due diligence.”

    If someone reads your critique of the situation, they will be confused by your statements. As we all are.

  890. Ray eavers on July 16th, 2010 5:46 pm

    jd,
    As you are not a Curves owner why don’t you but out. My wife and I made the mistake of buying a Curves and we are dealing with all the problems of trying to keep it open. Not only are we not getting any help from CI, we moved it in to a brand new facility, and no one from CI has yet set foot in our club. We have been open in the new location for over a year.
    To all the rest of you thank you for the information you are posting. We are hanging on by a thread and may have to shout the doors any day.
    rb

  891. Tell It Like It Is on July 16th, 2010 5:54 pm

    jd

    It is, after all, “Robert Lay’s Story.” You see, only in your mind is it all about you.

  892. Km on July 20th, 2010 10:58 am

    For those of us that are trying to hang in and make this work, I just got off the phone with Curves International to find out that in March 2010 they had dissolved their partnership with BlueCross Blueshield 365 and were only billing until July 2010, this was the last month for the automatic payment to us. When were we going to be told? They also dissolved the partnership with Walmart and McDonalds employees. And has hindered any marketing we could have done with Weight Watchers. I have also experienced one health plan that pulled out of the SilverSneakers program with no notice to the club or the members. I lost 8 months of payments. So where is the backing of being part of a franchise. We invested in the franchise to have a name. Well the name is going to hell. What choice do we have, we are all tired of beating a dead horse. Going to every business group in the area, handing out flyers, working 40+ hours a week and nothing to show for it. And starting this month, July, we will be payed the max of $32. for 8 workouts for the SilverSneakers. Doesn’t seen like anything is getting better, just worse. So if anyone can give us something positive to look forward to in owning a Curves, please post it. Otherwise I will also be volunteering for the plan to “prune the system”

  893. Km on July 20th, 2010 12:24 pm

    I visited Bluecross Blueshield 365 website to look at their discounts for their policy holders, sure enough Curves was replaced by SnapFitness. CI is really working on us staying in business.

  894. HusCurves Fan on July 21st, 2010 11:09 am

    One thing I don’t tolerate well is the infighting and name calling on any type of website. It gets old and downright dirty at times which in turn defeats the original purpose of such a forum. I originally posted my comments to vent a little and hopefully gain some support from other struggling Curves owners. I know there are more out there like my mom and I in similar situations.
    I was disheartened by the WSJ article (7/7/2010) and have since had a few ladies come in and ask if we were closing or they bring in the actual article like I hadn’t already seen it. I feel like we were blind sided and all I could do was tell these ladies that we are not closing, but I have no specific answer for them regarding a corporate response. We have made some recent updates to make it look more inviting and OPEN FOR BUSINESS! We repainted our street signs and building sign. We added flower boxes in front of our windows and I got vinyl lettering to post our hours to look more professional than a taped up paper.
    What I’ve learned from marketing recently is that certain places will not let you leave a lead box or flyers. If we do leave a lead box, it is stuffed with bogus interested people as a joke or there’s nothing at all. I personally have never filled out a form for a lead box, nor would I in this day and age of ID theft and constant calls from telemarketers. Since it’s just the two of us, we can only get so many flyers out at a time. We’ve aksed our members to place some for us (of which they have obliged). However, they do not like to give out information on their friends. I have heard many comments from the members that the previous employees would constantly hound them about referrals and they are so turned off at the prospect that we very rarely approach our current members. Our co-op has tried very costly newspaper, radio and television advertising. Some of these worked a little, but mostly it was too much money spent and not enough in return to even recoup a little back. We’re trying to find other ways of marketing that might not be as costly with the same impact. I will repeat myself here and state again, since we pay advertising dues to CI, it should be invested in prime time TV (ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox) not cable. We need a spokesperson (Olivia Newton-John?). Heck, in the Spring 2010 issue of Diane magazine there was an article about Kathy Kinney (formerly “Mimi” from The Drew Carrey Show). She has already been a Curves member for seven years. Wouldn’t she be perfect??? Her “before” picture could show her in the garish makeup as Mimi! We NEED something major in advertising, but locally we can’t afford it; we need our advertising dollars put to good use!
    The products are coming around, but very slowly. We have very minimal clothing items to display right now. We don’t like to display things for too long, because eventually we can’t get a certain size or style because it’s out of stock. Our current members are looking for workout gear, not more water bottles and gym bags! And they can only have so many t-shirts. Of course the new Stronger Together shirts are more expensive and in this tight economy, the last thing someone wants to do is pay MORE for another Curves shirt. We need workout gear!
    I understand the concept of packaging items and selling them as a 10 pack, especially if it’s trinkets. But for a small club like ours, ordering 12 protein shakes or a case of 25 weight management books doesn’t work. Would it hurt to reduce the sizes? Maybe a case of 6 protein shakes or 10 weight management books? We cancelled our subscription to Diane magazine for the very reason that we always had at least 50-75 left over. How about packages of 25 for us small clubs to purchase as needed, not the case of 100!
    We need some FRESH IDEAS to market through corporate and on our own. The programs in place now are no longer doing the trick. People are very suspicious of your intentions any more. Many times I have salespeople call or come in and I’m always on edge about what they are trying to rope me into.
    I will once again state that without Curves, I would still be an overweight, unhappy person still on antidepressants. I started workoing out at Curves 25 lbs. heavier and I stopped taking all meds cold turkey because I wanted those happiness endorphins to start working instead. Besides, being a busy mom, I really liked the idea of ONLY 30 minutes. I watch my mom deal with knee issues and workout because I don’t want to be in that position when I’m her age (or sooner). I think MANY women would be lost without Curves. Big co-ed gyms and the equipment in them are itimidating. Curves has taught many women the benefits of cardio and strength training in a safe, non-intimidating atmosphere, some of whom have never set foot in a gym in their life! CurvesSmart, while it has some issues, still kicks butt every single time I work out!
    I do believe that the old tried & true methods no longer apply though. Curves needs to make a major splash across the country, but not in the form of unpleasant press (WSJ).
    I AM NOT AN UNHAPPY FRANCHISEE, I AM A SURVIVING FRANCHISEE. I DO NOT WISHED TO BE “PRUNED”! I WISH TO BLOSSOM!

  895. Undecided on July 21st, 2010 11:59 am

    To HusCurves fan–
    You are on the wrong web site….most of us here have tried all that and then some and we no longer have any advice to shell out to franchisees who are still trying. I admire you and all that you are doing/trying to do.

    Are you a member of the Yahoo Curves Owners group? If not join that group and there are other franchisees like you that are doing well and want to do better.
    I wish you all the luck in the world and much success.
    Keep on Blossoming!

  896. ADMIN on July 21st, 2010 5:10 pm

    HusCurves Fan:
    Welcome and thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, what’s working for you, and what isn’t, etc.
    It’s a good reminder that not everyone is closing or has closed. Hopefully some of the veterans will share some ideas here for things you might try.
    We know that CI reads these comment threads (as do WSJ writers). Everyone should feel free to to post ideas & requests as to what marketing changes they’d like to see. Maybe the glare of public scrutiny will prompt some positive changes. (more wishful thinking?)

  897. pruned on July 23rd, 2010 1:59 pm

    More stories coming out using Curves closures like

    “Curves, other gyms in Utah cope with downturn” http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/49936718-79/club-health-curves-cut.html.csp

    “Curves, which has cut thousands of locations nationally, is down to about 40 outlets in Utah after climbing to more than 50 (the parent company won’t provide exact numbers).”

    Hard to believe it was just last June, in the middle of “pruning” 1000 clubs the AAFD named them franchisor of the year. http://www.aafd.org/thefranchiseevoice/2009FranchisorOfTheYear.php

    “The American Association of Franchisee and Dealers (AAFD) announced Curves International, Inc., as AAFD’s Franchisor of the Year for 2009.

    “Curves International is the franchisor of Curves fitness centers, the world’s largest fitness network with nearly 10,000 franchisee-owned fitness clubs serving four million women worldwide. Curves is also one of the fastest growing franchise companies in history.”

    “Under the leadership of company founders, Gary and Diane Heavin, Curves has defined itself as a franchise system built upon a culture of collaboration with and respect for its franchisee network, as well as setting a high standard for customer satisfaction and commitment.”

    “Said CEO Gary Heavin, “We have always made every effort to work hand in hand with our franchisees—as partners and as friends. The CFA is an indispensable resource, providing invaluable feedback that allows us to serve our franchisees at a higher level. I am pleased to accept this award in recognition of the collaborative efforts of our corporate employees, our franchisees and the CFA.”

  898. unhappy on July 24th, 2010 5:54 pm

    New article about Curves in the Waco paper that owners should read….
    http://www.wacotrib.com/news/Waco-fitness-chain-Curves-finds-itself-shrinking-closing-more-than-1000-locations.html

  899. Nebraska Owner on July 24th, 2010 9:12 pm

    Why didnt any of you owners who say you had wonderful booming clubs put any of that fabulous money away when you were doing soooooo well????? Dont blame Gary for your poor business sence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Curves did grow very quickly. Many of the origionals whom I too know and worked with very closely, filed suits because they thought they deserved a bigger piece of Garys pie!!!!! Obviously they didnt and they are no longer here. Grow up people and take responsibility for your business……ONLY YOU make it what it is!!!

  900. ace on July 27th, 2010 4:13 am

    Thanks for changing my mind about buying a curves. Good luck to all of you.

  901. endofmyropeisanoose on July 27th, 2010 10:37 am

    Nebraska Owner:

    I’m sure everyone here is happy for you if your Curves is doing well. Most hold no ill will toward owners or would wish that ALL owners had to close. And many of us are closing (after seeing no ‘bounty’) without trying to sue for a piece of anyone’s pie….
    But there are many reasons for a Curves business closing. We all worked hard, we gave our hearts and lives and money, and we all tried to stay open. Afterall, who purposely tries to ruin ones own business? “Growing up” means being a rational responsible adult too, and knowing when it has to be over.
    If all is well with you and your Curves, it may behoove you to show some humility, as you may need it in the future.

  902. Curves Owner2 on July 27th, 2010 1:53 pm

    Nebraska,

    Ridiculous!

    The original owners of these clubs made a killing, but the current owners can’t make their loan payments each month.

    Curves International has all these guidelines in place for the seller and buyer when a club is being sold. These things were not available when many of us purchased our clubs. Hmmm. Wonder why they are so involved now?

  903. anon on July 27th, 2010 2:34 pm

    “The original owners of these clubs made a killing, but the current owners can’t make their loan payments each month.”

    So isn’t that the point that Curves is making – that the original owners (franchisees) resale sellers f***ed over those they sold to so bad that they were beyond saving? So CI just gave up on them (or didn’t even try) since they were beyond hope and nothing they could do would change the fact ?

    I’m not saying it’s right, but isn’t that CI’s point about “pruning”? Wasn’t that also the point jd was making?

    How many of those closed or closing think their clubs weren’t lost causes and could have been saved with a better franchisor?

  904. ADMIN on July 28th, 2010 2:43 pm

    Gyms are closing doors because of unhealthy economy
    “SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) – Utah’s poor economic health is taking its toll on places where people go to get healthy: Gyms, Fitness Centers and Health Clubs.

    “More than a dozen Utah facilities have closed their doors so far in 2010, leaving contract holders with worthless paper.

    “Corporate officials won’t release numbers, but we know at least ten Curves locations in Utah have closed in the past year, along with at least a pair of Gold’s Gym locations and both Bally Total Fitness locations.”
    http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Gyms-are-closing-doors-because-of-unhealthy/lad98TnBvka8iC3tk7lgdw.cspx

  905. ADMIN on July 28th, 2010 2:47 pm

    Sponsored links support UnhappyFranchisee.com


  906. Exotic Curves on July 28th, 2010 2:57 pm

    Here’s a new Curves idea. It altready has “curves” in the name. This might get a little more attention for our clubs.

    Exotic Curves Pole Fitness Studio

    “The Bensonhurst native found a former television repair shop on Fifth Avenue, renovated it over the past three months, and installed 10 steel poles. Along with pole dancing, the studio will offer belly dancing, a Latin dance/fitness program called Zumba, and lap dancing. Classes start at $20. ”
    http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/33/30/all_poledancingclass_2010_07_23_bk.html

  907. PatNPhilly on July 29th, 2010 10:35 am

    Hi everybody,
    I read every post here and I feel bad for the people losing their homes and possessions. I am a current Curves owner in a Philly suburban town. I opened my first Curves club in 2000. I eventually owned 3 clubs but sold two awhile ago. My contract with Curves was up in June but I’ve been renewing monthly with Curves because I loved my members and I wanted to see it continued. After reading here and lots of soul searching I told the broker at McCord to withdraw my club from the listings and I will close it the end of August.
    When I bought my Curves 10 years ago and went to Waco for training. I was immediately stuck with the egomaniac , Howie as you call him. I chalked it off to the idea that any big idea man usually has some crazy in him. Also it was not as professional as I assumed it would be. It was more like a church rally and that hey I just paid alot money and here I’m at the moonies convention.
    I went back to open my first club and guess what, no mentor showed up to help me open.
    I had a very successful club for many years and I am very grateful for that and Nebraska, I don’t have any money left because I had 3 children and they went to to college and I had bills to pay so please don’t be so judgmental of people here. A successful club does not make tons of money that you can sock away. Plus when the Sh#T hit the fan starting in 2006 alot of that money went into keeping the business going. In 2008 when the economy tank the non renewals really took off and my rent was increasing regardless of the economic situation. I have a 1600 sq ft store front and my rent was hitting over $3500 a month. We tried to get him to lower it but they didn’t budge. Howie reaction to this is move…well dumboo what happens when your obligated because you have a signed lease…
    It started to get so bad that I just paid what I could. I will have no financial obligation to Curves but I will dealing with landlords when I close and I am pretty nervous about that.
    Do I feel that this is Howie’s fault that Curves is tanking, probably most of it and the economy just sped it up a bit.
    He was greedy and stuck Curves within 2 miles of each other in my area and alot of owners suffered. He was unbend able in helping people when a Planet Fitness moved right near a Curves club and there no response from him or the AD’s which by the way are a joke. They had nothing but stay the course and take everybody over with him. I know within my area there will be no Curves within 2 years. Snap Fitness is coming to my area and I am so glad to get out now before they open and watch more members go there because they’re open longer, they have treadmills, I can bring my child there…..
    As for the trolls on this site, I think everybody needs to ignore them. My daughter works for a large Public relations firm in NYC and she told me that companies will hire people to troll around the sites doing damage control, so the less we pay attention to them the better off every will be.
    I Just like to say in closing, that I think it is despicable that Mike Raymond is saying that they are pruning Curves businesses. When I bought my Curves, Howie wanted people that had no experiences of running a business. There was no screening process in place to make sure people knew how to run a business and they didn’t care what happen to you once you paid your money and they could collect royalty and advertising fees.
    I will be so glad to move on from this business. Has anybody had experiences with landlords and what happens once you close. I would appreciate it.
    Thanks and God Bless all of you!

  908. endofmyropeisanoose on July 30th, 2010 11:47 pm

    Closed my doors today. Looking forward to al life again!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks Robert, unhappy, et al.

  909. bksugar on August 1st, 2010 7:40 pm

    To PatNPhilly:

    I have a question. You said you were renewing on a monthly basis with Curves? How did you do that and can you do that? I thought that you had to sign a 5 year contract with them if you wanted to renew? Please advise.

  910. Curves Owner 2 on August 4th, 2010 5:44 pm

    No, you don’t have to sign for 5 years if you are a current owner. I have heard of yearly, one year being the minimum.

  911. bksugar on August 4th, 2010 11:29 pm

    Really? I just spoke to an owner last week who is going to close in two weeks. She told me that she tried to get out of renewing for 5 years. She wanted less years but that they didn’t want to work with her. She then said that the area director told her that she would tell Curves Int. that she wants to petition for less years, but she doubts that they would approve it. Please advise.

  912. bksugar on August 4th, 2010 11:31 pm

    p.s. PatNPhilly said they were renewing on a monthly basis?

  913. Andy on August 5th, 2010 8:46 am

    I just got this from a poor soul that still has a Curves. It was sent out as a promo piece. from CI. If you would like to comment to the producer, his name is Grant Mansfield and the main number for the company (RDF) is 310-309-6155. Their email is contactus@rdfusa.com.

    Dear US Curves Franchisees,

    Amidst the sweltering August heat, we’ve had some good news that we wanted to
    pass along.

    Gary and Diane Heavin will be featured in a one-hour prime time program on the
    ABC television network this fall. While we don’t yet have an exact air date,
    the series, titled “Secret Millionaire” will air on Friday nights at 8PM EST,
    7PM CST. We wanted you to be among the first to know.

    According to the network, the basic premise behind the series is this:

    Secret Millionaire is a one-hour alternative series that follows some of
    America’s wealthiest people for one week as they conceal their true identities,
    and go to live and volunteer in some of the most impoverished and dangerous
    communities in America. Surviving on welfare wages, their mission is to discover
    the unsung heroes of America-deserving individuals who continually sacrifice
    everything to help those in need. Throughout this incredible experience, the
    Secret Millionaires will attempt to remain undiscovered, coming face to face
    with extraordinary and amazing people battling the odds every day of their
    lives. On the final day, in an emotional and dramatic climax, they reveal their
    true identities. Ultimately, the millionaires will each give away at least
    $100,000 of their own money, changing lives forever.

    Gary and Diane’s episode has already been filmed. They spent a week in Houston’s
    Third Ward, living in a run-down row house with no air-conditioning. For 15
    hours a day, they worked with social-service organizations helping AIDS
    patients, kids with incarcerated parents, and other at-risk groups. At the end
    of the week, they made a charitable donation that Diane says was “quite a bit
    more” than the $100,000 the show calls for.

    We think the program will show Curves and our founders at their best. So many of
    you have demonstrated compassion and generosity in your local communities,
    day-in and day-out. If this program can represent, in some way, the good work
    you do, we’ll be well-satisfied.

    We’ll keep you posted as we get an actual airdate, and you’ll certainly want to
    let your members know.

    Sincerely,

    Mike Raymond
    President,
    Curves International, Inc.

  914. Ray Beavers on August 5th, 2010 10:40 am

    We are one of the poor souls that still own a Curves. All though we know what BS this is we are going to run with it. We need any publicity we can get. We hope all Curves owners will go with it and put it out there. Hay we are doing every thing possible to stay afloat.
    RB

  915. pam on August 5th, 2010 12:58 pm

    Can’t blame you Ray. But publicity tied to Heavin is a double-edged sword. Today the cause might be inner city youth but tomorrow it could be a crusade against pro-choice groups or a ban on gay marriage.

    Why not do charitable promotions on this scale that make Curves franchisees the heroes, not Gary & Diane? After all, it’s the franchise owners’ money being donated.

    Here’s the story in Waco Trib. Mike Raymond sure is reassuring.
    http://www.wacotrib.com/news/Curves-founders-Gary-and-Diane-Heavin-making-mark-on-ABC-reality-show.html

  916. unhappy42 on August 5th, 2010 5:25 pm

    Mike Raymond makes me want to throw up. Sorry, but their over zealous pride in themselves is sickening when so many are struggling. My husband came in today thrilled that our bank allowed us to refinance our loan we owe for our closed Curves. Now he only has to work 40 extra hours a pay period to still NOT make ends meet. He does not get a day off. Our credit is shot and we have to portion out our funds just to put food on the table instead of paying most of our bills, but we are still more fortunate than others that we have not lost everything. But they are touting that they are one of the wealthiest people. Spread the love Heavins….to the ones that made you…the franchisees. If the Heavins wanted to see people struggling all they had to do was look out their own ‘ window’ and see all the franchisees who have lost their homes and cannot find work. I have a very strong history in my previous field of work prior to Curves, yet after 2 months I am still struggling to find work.

    Please take people seriously on this board if you are considering buying a Curves. It will be one of the worst mistakes you will make. Homes lost, failed marraiges (my husband and I have had our share of arguments due to the stress of this), health ruined due to high stress…the list goes on and on. Just don’t do it.

  917. FitDude on August 6th, 2010 10:33 am

    Here’s an article about a club owner in Alabama recently moved her club and added tanning beds; http://www.franklincountytimes.com/2010/08/04/curves-for-women-opens-in-new-russellville-location/. I wonder if Curves corporate will tell her to stop?

  918. Sadderbutwiser (fake) on August 9th, 2010 11:18 pm

    [deleted]

    Pls. do not post under the screennames of others. ADMIN

  919. tickedoff on August 10th, 2010 10:00 am

    Sadderbutwiser
    Could I ask you who you are addressing your comment to. I’m confused. I’m wondering who you are and what you are doing on this site.

  920. Sadderbutwiser on August 10th, 2010 10:52 am

    Someone hijacked my screen name. It’s probably the dude mentioned in the WSJ article. He’s a former McCord broker who bailed when the bottom of Curves fell out. Now he sells health clubs to other suckers. He’s posted incorrect personal info here about my situation before. Not very professional

    He knows nothing about my situation. We didn’t split our territories. Curves opened a territory to our west and we bought it to avoid losing half our membership.

    Moderator, can you remove the hijacked thread, and this one, too?

  921. Curves owner on August 10th, 2010 11:14 am

    I am a Curves owner in Fl who knows sadderbutwiser. [del]
    No, you’re not. You’re a commenter who was asked to leave before because of personal attacks and the blatant pitching of your broker services. Once again: please go away. Thanks, ADMIN

  922. Sadderbutwiser on August 10th, 2010 7:53 pm

    Thank you, administrator.

    I’ll stop posting here. I seem to draw this stalker out wherever I post. He attacked me over at Franchise Pick and now he’s followed me here.

    To those who are enduring the nightmare we faced, stay strong. There are times I wanted to end my life over this disaster, but I couldn’t take the coward’s way out. I’m a stronger, wiser person because of this ordeal.

    I wish you all the best, even the broker who thinks he knows my story. Take care.

  923. ADMIN on August 10th, 2010 10:10 pm

    Sadderbutwiser:

    He will not get the opportunity to cause the kind of trouble he did at FranchisePick.com. There was even more aggravation behind the scenes. Believe me, he’s gone, gone, gone.

    You are welcome to continue to post, as you and the other contributors have undoubtedly helped others by sharing your challenges and experiences. Unfortunately, this is obviously not the end of the closings, nor the challenges owners and recent ex-owners will face.

  924. Help! on August 11th, 2010 11:45 am

    We want to close our Curves. We are in a small town and ony have 95 members. This is ridiculous to try to stay open. I am a owner only on legal paper, because my friends didn’t want to go to club camp. They talked me into letting them put me as an owner just so they wouldn’t have to attend club camp. This was the most stupid thing I have done.

    I tried to remove my name as an owner and CI says it will be $1,000. I feel like I am drowning with stress and worry. I even came down with Shingles. My friends are behind on federal and state taxes. We just want to get out of this Curves business. Please give us some advice. I would hate to sell and get someone else in this mess. No wonder the previous owner sold it to my friends at such a low price. Help!!

  925. justine curver on August 11th, 2010 9:37 pm

    re landlords and broken leases. I broke two leases as I closed two franchises last year. We also lost our home to foreclosure and used up virtually all our savings as I struggled to “get thru the hard times”.
    Today our Ch. 7 bankruptcy was finally filed. Now we can finally start over.
    One corporate landlord has been kind and patient.
    One female who represents a family ‘corporation’ that was my other landlord (I had 2 franchises) has been vindictive and nasty. She has dragged me thru several court proceedings that were all unnecessary as I have told her continually that I was working on the bankruptcy. (I wonder that she changed lawyers probably because her first firm told her the bankruptcy made it useless?) She will have one more chance to verbally berate me when we have the hearing next month, then I should finally be done with her. I will feel bad of course, but then I will get thru it.
    Both of the places I rented were re-let and re-opened within 2 months (one a yoga studio the other a tai-chi studio). Neither landlord suffered many months of lost income. Her vindictiveness is all about personality.

  926. Elizabeth on August 23rd, 2010 2:50 pm

    We are currently stuck with 12 pieces of Curves workout equipment. We have contact the prisons statewide as recommended by CI could not even give it to them. We have tried selling the equipment at any price to every owner within 200 miles to no avail. Can anyone tell me what to do with the curves equipment? This nightmare is still sucking a $150 a month out of us. Please give me your best ideas.

  927. FitDude on August 23rd, 2010 3:04 pm

    Have you tried craigslist.com to sell your equipment? It does not have the numbers that eBay has, but it is free. You may also contact area schools or churches to donate your machines and maybe get a tax write-off. Good luck.

  928. guest on August 23rd, 2010 3:05 pm

    Elizabeth where are you located. I know a women’s shelter that could use it.

  929. 2nd time around on August 23rd, 2010 5:15 pm

    to Elizabeth: except for our stretch machine – we sold that for $700 (great deal) , all of the other equipment was GIVEN to another Curves who wanted to make their circuit a “1 x around deal.” They even picked it up. It was a relief to see it gone. The prisons don’t want it or it is so much red tape to go thru just to give it to them.

  930. Elizabeth on August 23rd, 2010 8:02 pm

    I am in the southeast

  931. TN on August 26th, 2010 12:51 am

    Is it really true that if you ignore CI and close before contract end date that they will try to intimidate and then go away? I am a resale flop. I have fought with all I have like most comments I have read on this site. Husband has recently become disabled and can’t work any more and our wonderful economic reality of our government has cut back on the disability amount. I have not made a so- called pay check of any sorts since I bought it 2 years ago. now we have used way TO MUCH of what we have saved and it’s down to depletion.I have no insurance and I also need to have a surgery but can’t afford it at this point. So I have done the first set of paperwork for closing the sent me “Club Worksheet ” and “Expense report” and received the jaw dropping demands on franchise abandonment and what to do with MY equipment …Well I know what I would like to do with it but I don’t think it will fit,,hahahahah…anyway I’m in Texas and if I can claim the PRUNING PROJECT ..that’s for me.. I was actually sending that back as my response in addition to my Blank “Closing Paper work” .What do you really think?

  932. Kim on August 30th, 2010 10:06 am

    TN,
    Where in Texas are you located? I am also in Texas.

  933. Curves Owner2 on September 1st, 2010 10:40 am

    Unhappy,
    We haven’t heard from you in awhile. Hope you’re doing well.

  934. Undecided on September 4th, 2010 5:21 am

    What’s going on with everyone? No posts from unhappy for sometime. What happened to the Yahoo group that was going to be established for Curves that closed, closing, or just hanging on by a thread. Lawsuits…..where do we stand on those? Could someone here please give us an update on the above mentioned?
    Thanks,

  935. Geoff on September 4th, 2010 1:17 pm

    hello,
    I and my wife have managed the local curves for 3 years and assumed complete responsibility for its financial survival. (the prior owner would have closed if we had not done this, and curves international would not accept our purchase offer).

    the good news.. we are doing well and have steadily grown from our initial opening membership of 25 to around 210 in the last 3 years.

    for us, since curves will not have us because of my contracting business debt, being a franchise beyond the current contract term (which will be up in april) is simply not an option.

    my questions..

    has anybody reopened an independent ladies gym under a new name while continuing to use the curves equipment and curves smart?

    what names are people using for their new business?

    how does curves intl respond to such facilities?

    as additional background, we bought our current set of equipment from a failed club as well as the curves smart, so the equipment is ours. any insight on these questions would be appreciated. thanks

  936. ADMIN on September 4th, 2010 8:35 pm

    Undecided wrote: “What’s going on with everyone? No posts from unhappy for sometime. What happened to the Yahoo group that was going to be established for Curves that closed, closing, or just hanging on by a thread.”

    Unfortunately, unhappy had issues with the open nature of the discussion here. He threatened that he would stop posting unless particular commenters who disagreed with or challenged him/her were banned. I have banned people for being disruptive or threatening, but not for holding specific viewpoints or opinions. Even if I wanted to (which I don’t), it would create liability issues. As an open forum, commenters (not the site) are responsible for the opinions they express.

    unhappy also wanted to take the discussions private, which is fine but not what UnhappyFranchisee.com is all about. The little bit of attention that the mainstream media has given to the challenges of Curves franchise owners is due, in no small part, to franchisees’ public comments posted here and previously on FranchisePick.com. The WSJ writer Richard Gibson first read about the situation in the comments sections here when he featured the site in an earlier article. I believe it will be a real tragedy if Curves owners stop sharing their opinions publicly and allow the Curves franchise sales machine to start up once again while the “prunees” remain silent or talk quietly amongst themselves.

    I am getting many emails from across the world (especially Australia) from Curves owners desperate for others to share their opinions and experiences (like Geoff’s above). Please share your questions here on this or the other Curves posts, and I will both post them as a list and email them out to current and past commenters.

    Franchisees and ex-franchisees, please share your experiences. Many people are asking what it means to be “pruned”… Does that mean they will let you off the hook after you close or will you be hounded for every last cent? If you are involved with the lawsuits, how are they going?

    Someone commented earlier that if 1/3 of U.S. McDonald’s franchises closed, it would dominate the news and franchisees would be screaming bloody murder. Undecided makes a good point… the silence is deafening.

  937. KM on September 5th, 2010 1:38 pm

    I recently closed my club the end of July. I would like to hear from others about what they have experienced with CI’s recourse for action.

  938. Drained on September 7th, 2010 1:50 pm

    Its quite a bummer that when I bought my Curves I was so proud and excited, I had acheived and fulfilled a dream of mine. Filled with Passion for Curves and everything I was led to believe it stood for. Not too long afterwards, I can remember having a conversation with my AD, that with so many Curves worldwide, why did I feel so alone in this. Now we all are seeking support and advice from one another…all of us feel as though we’ve failed somehow. Giving everything we have to keep our doors open, and keep these wonderful women feeling supported. It COSTS me money everyday I come to my club to work 12 to 14 hr days. Turn on the lights, the music, the AC or the Heat, smile all day give encouragment…..this is insane. Every penny that I’ve worked for to this point in my life has been depleated because of this. What makes us feel as though we should continue this?

  939. KM on September 14th, 2010 11:08 am

    I closed my club in July. I just got my letter they want $33,000 for the term left. If I stayed open and they received the minimal royalties it would have totaled $8,700. I guess this is how they showed a profit last year. Where do they expect us to get this kind of money and if I had money laying around why would I have closed. Is he preying on all of us that opened our business with “no experience necessary”. I don’t get it, no one buys a business and then closes it for the hell of it. Do other franchises work the same way demanding all of their money left in the term?

  940. Drained on September 14th, 2010 3:46 pm

    Its just like them to try to suck us dry of any life or last breath we may have. Also interesting that my AD told me that I shouldn’t be including my $1200.00 crank I have to pay on my loan for the purchase of my club on my club assessment is a joke. Excuse me, but isn’t that an expense? Uh, no…that is personal debt that shouldn’t have anything to do with the operation of my club. Also not to mention the 45 50 hours a week I work and don’t pay out in payroll because if you remember we work for Free! WHAT???? So, the fact that I paid $150,000 for my club, is my fault, gee maybe they would have just given it to me for free! Yes, they should have, because now I can’t even give it away with all of the bad publicity and negative media. I’ll live through this, but we will all meet our maker in the end! I just hope I’m behind Howie and his sweet little bride in line, so I can laugh when the good Lord dishes out his. I really hate how angry and bitter this whole experience has made me!

  941. Curves Owner 2 on September 14th, 2010 6:26 pm

    Drained,

    Interest payments are an expense. Not the principal payment.

    It will be okay. We’ve all become angry and bitter. It is hard to get through the days sometimes. We keep working and going into our clubs, all the while thinking about everything we have sacrificed and continue to sacrifice for our members. It’s really hard when they complain because they have no idea how much we are sacrificing for them.

    I keep telling myself, if I come out of this as an angry, bitter person, then I am no better then Gary and the person who ripped me off. It will take some time to heal from this entire situation, but someday things will be better. I don’t know why we have all endured this in our lifetime, but we have to keep reminding ourselves that it could be worse. The things we have lost can be replaced, and if they cannot, we didn’t need them.

    I am wondering why the news seems to care so much about Kentucky Fried Chicken Franchisees and not Curves.

  942. Hesitant on September 17th, 2010 3:24 am

    I’ve worked at Curves for the past year and having had no previous affiliation nor knowledge of the workout with the franchise, and I was pleasantly surprised by the workout as I found it quite unique. Many of the members that I have come to know and love also feel the same way.

    Having read the previous posts above, I think that it’s terrible what has happened and is happening to franchise owners and I am deeply sympathetic towards you all. I also feel this way towards my boss/owner as we have a declining membership that is taking its toll on us as well.

    I am still a fan of the workout, and since its addition to my own fitness regiment I have found that it meets my needs for strength training, which I did not previously do very much of. I know we suggest to members that they walk or do other physical activities together with the Curves workout, but I think that the Curves corporation would benefit from partnering with other fitness practices for variety and to meet this need for added physical activity.

    I scanned and read in the above comments that Gary was looking at incorporating Zumba at some of the clubs? I’m not sure if that is true, but I think that considering that is a good start. As a previous member of larger community centres, women’s fitness chains, and worked at and used smaller yoga/pilates studios, I think that the Curves workout and equipment would benefit from being in a facility that also housed other activities or fitness programs. This would benefit the members in their health goals and give them the variety they need, and also promote the club to others that wouldn’t normally go there. I really hope that Curves Intl takes this into consideration because the franchises need a boost, as do the member”s overall fitness regime due to the repetitive and basic nature of the Curves workout.

    @ Geoff on September 4th, 2010 1:17 pm …

    Firstly, congratulations on your success with rebuilding your club and growing your member’s base. I am curious as to how you did that and would you have and be willing to share some tips that you could share with the rest of the Curves franchises?

    Secondly, I also think your idea to incorporate the equipment and build another women’s gym is fantastic! I would actually be quite keen to open a facility like that using the same equipment and have additional resources and fitness programs available to the members in a larger facility. If you find out if it is possible to use the equipment like that without any legal repercussions, go for it and I’d like to know how you go.

    All the best to you and other Curves owners.

  943. Wipedout on September 22nd, 2010 2:27 am

    I’ve watched the price of this particular Curves in Orando fall for the past 18 months at McCord Business Brokers. The wording NEVER changed. Check it out:

    “Take Over Business! Reduced! Dr. Phillips, Florida. Business Stability with High Income! Prosperous Curves franchise in an affluent neighborhood with a high opportunity for growth!”

    This week, the owners FINALLY got a buyer. The club is under contract for sale. Check out the sales price.

    ID: 1465 | Orlando, FL | Orange County | $1

    That’s right. A measly BUCK. And since McCord gets 5 percent of any franchise sale, tMcCord gets a whopping NICKEL. The owners walk away with 95 cents for their sweat and toil.

    Incredible.

  944. Chelsea Clark on September 28th, 2010 9:07 am

    Now that the last class action is over, does anyone know if there will be another one soon.
    From what I was told there would only be so if there were enough people to do so.
    I look forward to hearing from anyone with any information or help on this matter.
    Thanks!

  945. tickedoff on September 28th, 2010 10:15 am

    Unhappy,
    Where are you and where have you been. When I first closed my club, a year next month, i felt I had someone that was pulling for me and all the others like me. Why aren’t you posting anymore to let us know what is happening? I got another call from Serota Law firm. I didn’t answer it but he just left me another snotty message saying the same thing he said last time. He’ll be turning this matter back to CI since i refuse to get back to him to settle this matter. What Is going on with the class action suits? What is CI up to of late? Are we still supposed to ignore the situation. That is what I am doing since i did not abondon them, they abandoned me. Believe me, I don’t lose any sleep over this anymore but I do, as others, would love to know what has been going on. Could you please post again as your support meant a lot to many of us. Thanks!

  946. Still in the Nightmare on September 28th, 2010 12:29 pm

    Tickedoff – I have many of the same questions. I know unhappy, per the previous post, became unhappy with this forum, but at the same time it was the only place I could turn to keep me a little sane during the closing of my club in the spring. Daily I think of what may still be to come, and not being able to find updates here isn’t helping. I didn’t know the class action suit was over – does anyone know the outcome? I still would like to know what’s going on with CI pursuing our prematurely closed clubs with $$ demands and what we should do. I have heard nothing since my exhorbitant demand letter, on the heels of which I found out I’d been “pruned.” I sleep better at night, but still have a ton of anxiety about what may be coming. Though unhappy, with kindest entreaty to please come back – please – may not come back, if there are others still in the know lurking, please update us. I just don’t want to be blindsided, and there are, certainly, others looking to this forum as an important of information, good or bad, buying a club or closing a club.

  947. Ray Beavers on September 28th, 2010 4:03 pm

    Howie and CI have stooped to a new low. My wife went to Curves to pull the Breast Cancer flyers and guess what, they now charge $10.00 to use them. What do we get for our $195.00 franchise fee and our $95.00 advertising fee? Not a damn thing!! We bought the Curves and moved it into a brand new facility in June, 2009. Fifteen months and still not one person from Curves has set foot in our club. Please help me to spread the word, don’t buy a Curves. All it you get is a money pit for Howie!! I’m a dumb ass! I’m a dumb ass!! My new theme song.

  948. Sadderbutwiser on September 28th, 2010 4:12 pm

    I had heard the trial starts in December in Waco. Has someone heard differently?

  949. Chelsea Clark on September 28th, 2010 9:03 pm

    Unhappy where are you…?
    Yes, I was wondering the same thing..
    I also would not of been able to sleep at night without your posts.
    I hope you come back, as you were our voice of hope…but I can understand if this would have drained you, as it would anyone.
    I hope you read this as I wanted to say a Big Thank You for all your posts…it was the only thing that stopped me from having panic attacks…worrying what might happen… and thank you for having the guts for putting yourself out there supporting everyone who posted that wanted your help….Once again a Big Thank You. Take Care, and Good Luck…

  950. Chelsea Clark on September 28th, 2010 9:15 pm

    Sadderbutwiser
    You mentioned that there may be another Class Action in December, do you have anymore information, as I was just informed that there would not be one yet!!

    Just a thought, after all the cases have been resolved, maybe they (current and former owners) are asked to post anything as part of the deal……Just thinking……

  951. Chelsea Clark on September 28th, 2010 9:17 pm

    Just a thought, after all the cases have been resolved, maybe they (current and former owners) are asked not to post anything as part of the deal……Just thinking……

  952. jd on September 29th, 2010 1:42 pm

    If you look at the Court documents (need subscription), there have been quite a number of settlements made in the past month, so I wouldn’t be surprised if everything has been settled. As the number of plaintiffs got less and less the amount each of them would have owed to the attorneys for a trial would’ve racked up pretty quickly (unless the attorneys already had a cushion built in to what they had previously charged).

    I’m sure the settlements are confidential, although they are disclosed in the FDD. Looking at the 2010 FDD on the CA website, settlements ranged from $0 to $25k, however, those settlements don’t take into consideration attorney fees, and each party was responsible for their own fees.

    Their FDD also shows that they did file lawsuits in TX for franchisees that abandoned their shops, so people on here taking the advice to ignore notices, should take that into consideration.

    As for Unhappy, I’m sure I was one of a couple of people he wanted banned. It’s ironic that he would criticize CI for being bullying around franchisees, yet it’s apparent that he was trying to bully the Admin into banning people.

  953. Drained on September 29th, 2010 2:58 pm

    jd – so sorry to see you back…..everyone posting on this site can see you’re a mole. I trust nothing you say. I’ll stick with the majority of people who are trying to support one another while we get on with our lives. I was fortunate enough to actually speak with unhappy. He knows his stuff! So everyone else out there, hold your heads up high and be confident that if and when we ever have the opportunity to fill a courtroom….we’ll have each others backs!….jd, Get Lost!

  954. jd on September 29th, 2010 3:31 pm

    Drained, please tell me what i posted earlier today that had any bias whatsoever?

    Sure, think I’m a mole, but wouldn’t you prefer an unbias opinion. I gave you and others information provided in the FDD for CA (look it up), that should be useful.

    Unhappy provided one side of the information and was pretty biased to his opinion (hence he wanted me banned from posting). Remember how he stated that CI would be bankrupt by the end of 1st quarter next year? If this case is settled at a maximum of $25k, they had income to offset those losses (again FDD on CA’s website).

  955. Truth on September 29th, 2010 3:44 pm

    Many of the suits have been settled. I have seen the FDD. Some for a couple grand. When the venue was moved to Texas that was the beginning of the end. Federal law does not protect the consumer and Heavin has probably donated to every judges campaign in that county. Imagine having a chance in Texas. This ship has sailed. No person in their right mind would pay an attorney to do this all over again; although I am sure attorneys will welcome 180 more people paying them 4k each and monthly fees to try. Winning against a franchise system in their home court is impossible 99% of the time. It is sad but true.

  956. ADMIN on September 29th, 2010 8:35 pm

    I’ve posted the CURVES International 2010 Franchise Disclosure Document (FDD)

    While you can read them in the litigation section, tomorrow I’ll post a table showing the amounts of the group action settlements as reported. As of the date of the FDD filing, there were 40 settlements determined and 81 plaintiff groups remaining. There are also other settlements apart from the group action.

  957. ADMIN on October 1st, 2010 8:58 am

    The results for 46 group action plaintiffs is listed in the 2010 FDD, with 81 actions still pending.

    As I read it, of the 46, 17 got nothing and 29 received cash settlements from CI.

    Total Settlements: $240,400

    Highest Settlement: $25,000
    Lowest Settlement: $1,000
    Average Settlement: $8,290
    Median Settlement: $5,500

    Does anyone know what the actual attorneys fees & costs borne by these franchisees are? How many of these franchisees even recovered the costs of their participation in the lawsuit, much less their time and aggravation?

    See the list of individual settlements listed in the FDD here:

    CURVES Franchise Lawsuit Settlements

    Reactions?

  958. Truth on October 4th, 2010 2:44 pm

    They paid 4k down and 80.00 per month to the law firm. lawyers are worse than CI. They are bloodsucking liers who give false hope to reel in the suckers.

  959. udomatter on October 4th, 2010 10:15 pm

    I’d like to say how very sorry I am to hear people who had already suffered losses (emotional, financial and physical) had to give so much of their already drained time, energy and money to ultimately receive such low settlements when all is said and done. My heart goes out to you.

    My take on the settlements which could be way off base, is that with so many cases pending, I don’t think CI would have settled so many of them regardless of the dollar amount if they didn’t see that they weren’t going to win if it went to court. That’s a lot of cases to settle on. I know the whole “saves in legal fees” theory of settling and the settlement amount is pocket change for a multi-million (or billion) dollar company but if the next 40 or so settle that could be another quarter million, still not much by their standards, but maybe enough to open their eyes to the direction they are going. How much would they have been out had they gone to court and lost? I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in discussions with their attorneys. Why would you basically give away that much money just to make something “go away” if you thought you would win by going to court? Oh, I know, because it was the “right” thing to do (definitely my sarcastic side coming out now). Sure CI cut their losses by settling, probably had gag orders as part of the settlements so far as anyone being able to bad mouth them anymore and they have probably stopped many others from even thinking of filing suit, but maybe, just maybe they’ll see how wrong they’ve been and stop or at least slow down their uncalled for treatment of the people who helped them obtain their millions. I know, I know, what can I say, I’ve always been somewhat of an optimist – wouldn’t have purchased the franchise if I wasn’t. Whether it opened their eyes or not, thank you to all of you who stood up to them, your efforts are greatly appreciated.

    I’m still open (heaven help me) and undecided as to what direction I’m going to be taking. I would love to hear from anyone who has re-opened after closing. Are you still using your same equipment, did you go co-ed or remain women only, did you stay in the same location, have you had any repercussions from CI? I’m still trying to figure out what I’m going to do and would love some feedback.

  960. tickedoff on October 5th, 2010 6:33 am

    Unhappy,
    Still wondering where you are and why you are no longer posting. Have you given up? Please post and let us all know one way or another what your thoughts are now and what is happening with you. You helped out a lot of us and made us feel more secure. Should we still feel the same? PLEASE let us know what your thoughts are now. Thanks.

  961. JW on October 5th, 2010 9:50 am

    I too, would like to know if anyone has closed and then reopened successfully. I am looking at closing the end of December, with only 1 1/2 years left on my agreement (10 year agreement). I had hoped to make it until the end, but we’re losing too much money every month. What is it actually costing to close and quit? In looking over our agreement, it doesn’t give consequences, just says you “will not be in default”. I have other things going on in my building, so without the fees sent to Curves, we could at least pay the rent on the space. Any advice or information would be appreciated.

  962. Kathy on October 5th, 2010 3:28 pm

    Drained,

    I closed my last of 5 clubs in May, 2010. I too received a letter saying “I abandoned my franchise” and I owe CI 60K + I was able to sell (1) while things wer still good. Unfortunately, membership declined so fast, for me and the new owner, that the balance on the sale went into default.

    So, at that point in time, appx 2006, I started to work the remaining (4) clubs, with hopes of turning them around, possibly for a sale. I put everything I had to in these clubs, both emotionally and financially. I went through any retiement, or savings just to keep these clubs open. And of course, during this tome taking no compenation.

    I was in constent communication with CI, Landlords, etc. trying to do anything to keep them open. I was fortunate enough that between 2007 and 2009 I was able to sell (really give away) three of them. Leaving me with (1).

    1 year after the last sale, I closed my last club. I too was in contact with CI and following all their recomendations on closing procedures. Only to find out that shortly after closed, I received a letter saying that I “abondoned my franchise, and owe appx $60,000+” I sent an immediate response, and all documentation back to them, and to date have heard nothing.

    Just a quick note: I told them that I had signed afftidavits from current, and previuos owners (all true) that show CI allowed these franchises t close with either no fees, or minimal fees. I’m not sure if this has any meaning.

    I do have a few questions that possibly someone can answer for me;

    Does that mean a precident was set, with none or reduced fees?

    If they were aware of my closing, and sent me procedures, how can they say I abandoned my franchise?

    (2) of my clubs were owned prior to any ad fees, but then ad fees were taken out automatically. Was that legal?

    I have read many of these posts for years now. I feel for each and everyone of you. I pray everyday for direction and guidance, and will do the same for you. Look forward to hearing anyone experiences with all of this. God Bless.

  963. ADMIN on October 11th, 2010 10:29 am

    As we near 1000 comments on this post alone, CI has decided to start monitoring and managing their online reputation.

    CI press release:
    “Saturday, 09 October 2010
    “Curves International, Inc., the world’s largest franchisor of fitness clubs, has selected Engage121, Inc., a software company with expertise in social media and franchise communications, to help Curves monitor brand sentiment, leverage their news content, and develop relationships with online audiences through multiple social media networks and blogs.

    “The Engage121 software application allows Curves to simultaneously monitor all relevant social media networks and more than 200,000 blogs, as well as traditional news media…

    “We are pleased to have been selected by the most recognized fitness franchise in the world to facilitate their social media efforts,” Engage121 CEO Jon Victor said. “We’re excited to help Curves listen and engage conversations across all relevant networks and blogs in our integrated application,” Victor said.”


  964. Marie Allred on October 12th, 2010 1:57 pm

    I have been a club owner for several years now & like many others have put in to many hours to actually count. God has blessed my business in the fact that he has kept my membership where it needs to be to meet the needs of my bills. There is not really any extra, the few times that I have managed to get ahead & pay someone so that I might have some time off never lasts very long. I am always grateful for that little bit of time to just be able to breath outside of Curves, even if it is only for a few hours.

    Without giving out to much information because I am sure that CI is here amongst us & I do not want them to know who I am or where I am at. I have been trying to sell my Curves for a while now. I realize that I paid way to much for my Curves, I did the research but apparently not well enough…..I will never re-coop the money that we have paid for this business. After the lovely WSJ article and my members commenting on it while working out I decided to do some more research & stumbled upon this web page. I have read every post from beginning to end, it is so sad & disheartening because I have had a weight issue all my life & Curves has been a huge part in my losing weight & keeping it off. I love my members but there is NO WAY I will resign a franchise agreement with CI or try to sell it from this point on. There is absolutely no way I would sell my business to someone else, even if they offered me the full amount as to what I paid for it. I have delt with CI, they don’t give a rats behind about us! I pray every day that God will allow me to “hold out” until my franchise agreement is up. As that day grows closer, I begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I will still owe at least $24,000 to the bank for my franchise note when my agreement is finished but I will not renew or sell to some other unsuspecting person that has a huge heart & love for the people. I am zapped! I want my freedom back & will feel forever blessed if the Lord gets me thru this period in my life. I don’t blame CI for my mistakes but I also do not believe that they are going to help anyone other than themselves. My heart breaks for each of the posts because I know the love for the people & the business as well as the hardship it has played on my health, my marriage & my family.

    I will count this as a very EXPENSIVE lesson from the “school of hard knocks”! I will walk away having learned something & pray that I never make a mistake like this again. To all of you that are still struggling or have closed, I am sorry & wish you the best!

  965. Drained on October 21st, 2010 4:12 pm

    Well…I am officially lopped from the dying Curves tree. I am now Closed, uh, oh…I mean “pruned”. I am relieved! It sounds like after convention the writing is on the wall….things aren’t looking so great for Howie!

  966. tickedoff on October 22nd, 2010 6:20 am

    Drained,
    What happened at the convention?

  967. CATHY on October 28th, 2010 2:28 pm

    I CLOSED MY CLUB OCT.15/2010,JUST RECEIVED A LETTER FROM CURVES LEGAL AND THEY ARE DEMANDING $45000.00 IN THE NEXT 10 DAYS.THEY ARE SUCH HORRIBLE PEOPLE .HAS ANYONE HEARD OF THEM ACTUALLY GETTING A LIEN ON YOUR HOME,LOOKS LIKE I’LL BE FORCED TO GO BANKRUPT LIKE SO MANY OTHERS .I HOPE GARY H GETS WHAT IS COMING TO HIM FOR DESTROYING SO MANY LIVES

  968. Drained on November 2nd, 2010 10:03 am

    I certainly cannot afford, nor will I send them one more red penny! They have brainwashed and manipulated so many people. Just take note of what is happening, there are so many of us in the same situation. I will not let Curves ruin my life anymore…..I’m gonna live it!

  969. CA Ex-Owner on November 2nd, 2010 12:21 pm

    To Cathy and Drained: We are ex-owners who closed in 2008. We refused to pay both the $10,000 and then later, the $43,000 they demanded (and yes, they threatened to put a lien on our home and further legal actions to get “their” money). We wrote a letter refusing to give them even a cent more. It has been two years now, so hopefully that’s the last we’ve heard from them.

    Although it was hard to close after so putting in (and losing) so much money, time and work; and although we will always miss our “ladies” and all the good experiences – the relief was just IMMENSE. Moving on, back to having a life.

    Drained – what happened at convention that you said the writing is on the wall? I’m sure we’d all like to hear this!

  970. Lorna on November 3rd, 2010 9:13 pm

    Robert, I would love to talk to you. Just about thru my contract, and curves does not answer my phone calls… hope to hear from you….

  971. Lorna on November 3rd, 2010 9:59 pm

    ■Small Town on April 9th would love to talk to you. Will be watching my emails…

  972. tickedoff on November 4th, 2010 7:02 am

    Where are you Robert? Are you alive and well? I think many of us that have talked to you in the past would like to know you are still there for us. We listened to you and took your advise. We appreciated you were there for us. Why has all communication stopped from you? We are now in the dark not knowing what is going on in the CI world. Please post and let us know. If you are done and want no more to do with us, just let us know. To all of you out there that are in the dark and are getting no response(including me) I believe now we just have to sit back and hope for the best. I closed in Oct. 2009 and except for the demand of money(which I did not send) and the letter of abandonment, (I did not abandon them, they abandoned me) I have not heard from CI. I did receive 2 letters from some fly by night lawyers office in Illinois and a few phone messages from them but they have since left me alone. I have ignored this as Robert suggested at the time as he told me they had no right to collect from us. I guess we are now on our own and only time will tell what happens to CI and to us(the ones that made CI successful!. If CI had not been so greedy and had been more helpful and understanding to their franchise owners i feel most of us would still have their clubs. They only wanted to make all the money they could and to hell with us. Good luck in the furture to all of you out there. I have decided that I gave CI almost 8 years and I was in it for the right reason(to promote womens health) not to become a millionaire. We did what we were supposed to do now its up to CI to face their maker and do the right thing for all of us. They made their money off our hard work, now they should let it go and be thankfull for what we all did for them. We made them rich, but in money only. We are rich in knowing we did help a lot of women and we did it for the right reasons. You all should sleep well knowing this, I do!

  973. Ray Beavers on November 5th, 2010 2:35 pm

    It looks like we will be joining the ranks of the fallen. I am tired of subsidizing our loosing club. Does anybody know how many clubs have closed this year or where the information can be found? I am meeting with my attorney and would like to have all the information I can. I will fight CI to the end before I will pay them one more dime. As far as the equipment is concerned I will junk it before I will send it back to CI!! I refuse to sell the club to some other poor fool and pass on all the BS from CI. One year and five months sense we bought the club, moved it in to a brand new decorated building and still no one from CI has set foot in it. My wife ask the area rep if she was going to come by, “She is to busy to come by” If any one knows how to contact the attorneys that filed the suite against Curves please give me there contact information. I will keep everyone informed as to what transpires as we close.

  974. Drained on November 6th, 2010 12:15 pm

    I received my “Letter of Abondonment” from CI. They don’t even have my contract date correct on it. When I closed and sent them my e-mail informing them, I referred to myself as my franchise number, no name….that’s all we ever were to them anyway. As for convention, as I said I did not attend, although I had a few friends that did. I guess Howie got up on stage and instead of focusing on the positives and stomping out all of the negativity…he went on some trashing rant about all the people that have screwed him over (HA)…anyway I guess he bashed Cassie Findley, Go Figure, and many other people that he says let him down…what a freakin’ joke! I guess he even singled out some guy right in the front saying to him “I know you’re friends with him (a Go Figure guy)…but you can take that home with ya”…what a jerk! I also heard….again not first hand, that “unhappy” is finishing up some legal things (law suit stuff) that goes through the end of this year..and we’re assuming he has to not be involved with any communications realted to the matter. I think that may be why we haven’t heard from him on this site for awhile. I talked to him personally for hours on the phone, and he’s a ball of information and a wonderful guy! So, I’m moving on…filing all CI crap in the corner of a back room….and moving on with my life. I just continue to tell everyone that when I get down about it….think of all the things I am blessed with. I have my health, a loving and supportive husband, healthy parents and kids….it’s only money. What goes around comes around…we’re all a family of our own, and if it ever comes down to us getting together for a “family reunion” in a court room someday, we know there’s alot of power in numbers! I pray for all of us everyday…stay strong, and live your lives!

  975. Drained on November 6th, 2010 12:20 pm

    Oh…I also heard (second hand) that “unhappy” had planned on attending the CI convention in Vegas. I’m anxiously awaiting his feedback on that! But, Howie will probably watch his tongue if he knows “unhappy” is in the house!

  976. Geoff on November 6th, 2010 1:19 pm

    guys from all my poking around online I would guess that Curves International is heading towards the ropes. from what I can gather there are probably less than 3400 us franchises. additionally, while the average club break even point occurs typically at a membership of 300, again from what I am able to find online the average curves membership is actually closer to 250 per club.

    what this means is that without a dramatic change at the corporate level, Curves seems destined to a continued relatively rapid decline in open franchises.

    has anyone looked at the corporate business model and compared it to the modus operandi that was recommended at the franchise level.

    local club curves international
    the registration =initial franchise fee
    monthly dues = royalty-adverising
    merchandising =curves smart- i go figure, etc
    early quitting fee = we all know what this equals

    the life blood of our club is the registration, and monthly dues is the backbone. it was the same for curves international.

    ci is now living off monthly dues and quitting fees,

    you can’t make it with out the new members. You will have decreasing monthly dues and substituting quitting fee income for registration income is a losing gambit. Both at the local club level, and at the corporate level .

    Curves international needs to rebrand so they are compelling and attractive in an increasingly competitive industry. They also need to start making enough money to survive without the new franchise fee income, (no franchises have been sold in some time) , and without the “quitting fee” (that will become a diminishing income source very soon).

    I anticipate a switchover offer sooner or later that tries to reorganize whats left into a new company.

    these are my thoughts anyhow.

    I personally hope curves gets a good leadership team together and makes the necessary and long avoided changes so something can be salvaged from what was at its inception a truly special and unique concept.

  977. udomatter on November 6th, 2010 10:01 pm

    It seems I too will be joining the ranks of the “closed or pruned Curves” in the very near future. It just breaks my heart not so much for me anymore – it will be good to have it behind me – but for my members.

    I just got off the phone with “unhappy”. He’s still around and doing well – going to court in January unless something changes between now and then. I found him on facebook – sent a message with my phone number hoping it was the right person and he called me within a day, so he is still talking.

    I too wish he was still posting here along with all of you – it has been so helpful for me to read his posts and hear your stories; as mine is much the same. As bad as I feel for everyone, it is somewhat comforting to know I’m not alone. I’m not sure I would have made it through this whole thing without losing my sanity if it hadn’t been for this site – so thank you ADMIN and everyone who posts here!

  978. udomatter on November 7th, 2010 12:56 am

    I sort of cut my sentence off early on my last post…I should have said “…he is still talking and being very supportive and encouraging”.

  979. Wipedout on November 8th, 2010 3:04 am

    Over at the McCord Business Brokers website, they’re either not accepting any new clubs for sale, or the clubs that are listed are closing before they can be sold.

    My state used to have several pages of clubs for sale. Now there are NO clubs listed in the “exclusive” listings and only TWO in the “for sale by owner” listings.

    Check your state and see for yourself!

  980. ADMIN on November 9th, 2010 6:52 am

    Comment from “Pete” posted to one of the Children’s Orchard posts (http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/childrens-orchard-ceo-taylor-bond-claims-franchisees-giving-rave-reviews/):

    “There is an interesting article in the Franchise Times Nov./Dec. 2010 issue on page 76 dealing with a franchisor suing a franchisee for future royalities when the business closed before the contract was up.

    “The case involved New York Medicine Shoppe franchisee, TLC Pharmacy. Laura Sobolesk, the franchisee, opened the pharmacy in 2004 and signed a 20 year deal. She closed up shop in December 2008. The Medicine Shoppe franchise sued for unpaid royalties and marketing fund payments. It also asked for future royalties on the remaining 16 years on the franchise contract.(nearly $900,000)

    “Sobolesk wrote letters to the court saying she could not afford an attorney or the plane fare to Missouri where the case was to be heard. She didn’t even show up to court. The judge ruled she had to pay past due royalties and interest, plus additional legal fees. ($128,000) But the judge REFUSED to grant lost future royalties.

    “Ron Gardner, attorney with the Minneapolis law firm Dady Gardner, believes this ruling may ‘turn the tide’ of franchisors pressuring the franchisees for future royalty payments by providing case law in favor of the franchisee. Who is to guarantee that the franchisor would remain in business through the life of the contract?”

  981. Copper on November 9th, 2010 10:20 pm

    My wife and I had to close our Curves in January after 3 years open in to a five year contract. We have been getting the calls from some attorney in Illinois trying to collect a debt for future royalties and advertising. We are not sure where they came up with the amount due figure. I have seen people comment that they have ignored the calls, and nothing has come of it. I am seeing this account on my credit report now. Has anyone else checked theirs ??

  982. lora herman on November 12th, 2010 12:03 pm

    Please contact me with UNHAPPY at Curves site. thank you

  983. lora herman on November 12th, 2010 12:04 pm

    Our curves may close with only 6 mo. left, any ideas out there?

  984. 2nd time around on November 13th, 2010 7:37 pm

    To Iora herman, I am sorry that you are closing. However, after that 6 months you will have your life back!

  985. Ray Beavers on November 14th, 2010 3:09 pm

    We are going to close our Curves. Would appreciate any information from other Curves owners that have closed before franchise agreement fulfilled. Really interested in clubs in Missouri and Kansas area.
    Thanks Ray

  986. Ray Beavers on November 15th, 2010 10:47 am

    We are still waiting for some advice on what we can expect from Curves if we close. Please anyone.
    Thanks, Ray

  987. life back on November 15th, 2010 12:17 pm

    Ray & Copper:
    I closed my club (PRUNED) earlier this year with a little under 3 years to go. I’ve no new advice that you can’t find here by reading the posts, though. I tried to close properly, did not sell or keep my equipment (donated to a prison), and did most everything asked except pay the fee. I recieved my letter of abandonment and ignored it. I have not received any calls yet regarding the attorneys in IL. If it is showing on your credit report, I think you can ask for a validation of debt from them – Google it and look for a debt validation letter template and ask it to be removed if they cannot validate the debt (and from what I learned from a para who deals in bankruptcy, they need a court judgment against you to validate the debt). Ray, just try to close with respect to your members – treat them right and try to transfer them to another Curves if you can. I keep hoping each day that I will hear no more, but it seems to be hit-and-miss on who they chase. I know a lady who closed 2 years ago and she heard nothing after the demand letter. I don’t know what criteria they are following in pursuit of franchisees. Good luck. Even though it is hard to close, you will truly feel a great weight of one kind lifted about 4 months after closing. I’m sorry I can’t help you much more.

  988. CA Ex-Owner on November 15th, 2010 1:32 pm

    Ray Beavers,

    Sorry that you are closing. We’ve all been there and know how you feel. We closed two years ago and we are on the West Coast. We had not fulfilled our franchise agreement–we had 5 1/2 years to go. From reading the above posts, I don’t think things are much different than two years ago, but this is what happened with us:

    We notified Curves of our intent to close. They then emailed us their “Closing Procedures,” an Intent to Close Facilty form, etc. (note the titles–”closing” not “abandonment”) and a demand for $10,000 so that a Mutual Release could be offered to us (this is their compromise for collecting future royalties/advertising fees from us). They basically tell you what to do with your equipment, with your clients, etc. We followed all their instructions to the T – except for the $10,000, which we refused to pay.

    They then told us they would “reconsider” the amount and dropped it to $8,000–we refused. They again “reconsidered” and dropped it to $6,000. They also told us since we didn’t have the money, we could sign a promisory note with them (yeah, right). We again refused. Now at this point, other clubs have said that they went down to about $2,500. However, since we emphatically refused to pay, they stopped there and referred us to the legal department.

    By the way, at some point, they began calling it “abandonment” instead of “closing” of our club – even though all their paperwork indicated “closing” and we followed all their instructions (except for the $10,000).

    Next, the legal department UPS’ed us a letter saying we now owe them $42,480 for future royalties/advertising fees for the remaining 5 1/2 years of our Franchise agreement. We faxed them back a letter saying we will not pay future royalties/advertising fees for our club which is no longer in existence, addressing the issues of their being unethical, discriminating, intimidating and harassing. This is where I spoke with UNHAPPY, who does not post on this website anymore. He was a wealth of information and possibly ADMIN can refer you to him- not sure. I guess the next step is, they could serve us with court papers–we have not heard anything more.

    Anyway, we are not in any of the lawsuits and it has been two years since we wrote them the last letter refusing to pay, with no more word from them. I hope it stays that way. One of the posts earlier advised everyone to check their credit reports because they have found an amount from Curves on theirs. I think that was good advice – I did check mine, and it is not there.

    Hope this info helps.

    CA Ex-Owner

  989. Justine Curver on November 15th, 2010 4:58 pm

    Ray,
    I believe they practice intimidation. It would be wise for you to do two things (In addition to the suggestion above to check your credit report etal)
    1. find your franchise agreement. mine specifically says the equipment is mine to keep, no matter how the contract is ended. however, yours might say something different. find it. read it.
    2. check your state laws. that might mean talking to your attorney general, or consulting an attorney, or reading your state code (if you can). The state codes are online. Your local congressional representative might also be able to help you. And are you acquainted with any other franchisees (in your state) who have closed? Look them up. Ask them about their experience. Especially ask if they consulted a lawyer.
    Intimidation works if they succeed in making you act upon fear. Knowledge is the antidote to fear. Keep reading these posts.
    Best wishes and let us know how things go!

  990. Happy Closer on November 15th, 2010 7:54 pm

    For Ray Beavers

    I closed several months ago prior to the end of our franchise agreement. I spoke personally with several people on this site, followed this site from the beginning, spoke with franchise lawyers, spoke with other owners who were currently closing and I decided I wanted to sleep at night. Closures are not as “easy” as they were more than nine months ago. I worked with CI and experienced a very graceful closure. Keep the communication open with them. (Advice from lawyer.) I did not experience intimidation. I paid a nominal fee and it was over with. Paying an attorney to review my agreement would have cost aloy more. At the end I was relieved. Let’s be fair, after all,I was breaking an agreement.

  991. Fit Dude on November 16th, 2010 1:13 am

    Does anyone besides me think that Happy Closer is a CI plant? Has anyone else experienced anything “graceful” from CI?? Has anyone else considered the CI closure fees to be “nominal”?? Why pay an attorney a few hundred dollars to review an agreement we when can trust CI to be graceful and fair- it’s everyone else that broke their agreement- CI would never do anything wrong! Trust them and feel relief! What a farce…

  992. Ray Beavers on November 16th, 2010 5:22 pm

    Thanks to every one who responded to our questions about closing. We have an attorney and I am forwarding all your post to him. We will post the outcome here as we move on.
    It really hurts that we have already invested over $50,000 in a year and five months and not one person from CI has set foot in our club or offered any help! The area rep informed my wife she did not have time to visit our club! Now we still have to worry that CI will try to extort more money from us.
    YES!! I agree with Fit Dude, Happy Closer sure sounds like a CI plant.

  993. Happy Closer on November 16th, 2010 5:28 pm

    Nope, not a plant.

  994. Ray Beavers on November 17th, 2010 10:25 am

    Happy Closer

    What was a very graceful closure?
    What do you call a nominal fee ?

  995. Ray Beavers on November 17th, 2010 10:36 am

    After buying a club that would have closed. Moving it to a new building with all new interior. Giving our all to try and make it go. Being lied to about number of members. Having our area rep tell us she is to busy to visit our club. I thank a graceful closure would be leave us alone as you have since we took over, and a nominal fee would be $0.00. What do you thank Happy Closer?

  996. Happy Closer on November 17th, 2010 11:17 am

    Ray Beavers: I sincerely want to help. Are you finished with your lease? I wanted to close earlier, but I couldn’t break a lease. Have you contacted CI regarding closure? I can’t disclose details because I signed a confidential agreement. My advice is to talk to them, explain your situation in detail. I know it is a scary time. Keep the communication open. This was advice I received from attorneys and other owners who “closed gracefully”. I will repeat, it’s not as easy to walk away as it was more than 9 months ago.

  997. Karen on November 17th, 2010 4:42 pm

    Curves International is taking me to court for broken franchise agreements. I closed a few clubs due to poor numbers and its lots of money. I am in Canada. I am stepping out my master’s studies and will spend the next three to four months preparing a case. I plan to launch a counter suit for damages resulting from opening clubs in territories too small to justify a club and that the sale of which was unconscionable. I have an email from International stating that clubs are not recommended in areas smaller than 10 000. So why did they allow it? I believe that the number is larger and will prove it based on closures. I owned 8 clubs at one time and Gary suggested that I open more years ago. Mike Raymond states franchisees got into for the wrong reasons as investors. Did they really think I was going to personally manage all these clubs?

    I am asking for any information you may have that may help my cause which will in turn help all those who have experienced stress caused by CI dealings. I would love to have:

    1. A list of closures or number of clubs at its peak in the US and Canada.
    2. A list of all CI cases or other franchise case law that may be of interest.
    3. A Texas Usury law which apparently prevents CI from suing for franchise fees after closure (Robert Lay mentioned this to me last year)
    4. Anything else you may deem of interest.

  998. Justine Curver on November 17th, 2010 5:25 pm

    To Karen! Please keep us updated! I am very happy that you are taking action! I wish you all success. I’m sorry I don’t have any of the data you requested, but I hope you find it all. There was somewhere on this site that a posting of a person who was doing their due diligence in considering buying a resale. They would have been in reciept of a document from Curves International listing all closures and lawsuits.

  999. Karen on November 18th, 2010 8:42 am

    As of this morning there are 4309 Curves in the 50 US states. The WSJ article stated that there were 7748 at the beginning of 2007. If this was peak, although I suspect it may be higher, that is a loss of 45% of clubs in the US, wow. There is a Curves for every 72, 112 people in the US. I would love to know how many of those clubs are just hanging on due to the legalities of broken leases, franchise agreements, love of its members and the like.

  1000. Geoff on November 18th, 2010 10:38 am

    Karin,

    I believe an accurate count of the current number of open Curves franchises is known only to Curves International.

    I cannot fathom a reason that Curves would reveal an up to the minute number that is lower than what they have provided in their most recent required disclosures. I may be wrong, but I think Curves is required to update the list of closed franchises annually. at best this current list is approximately 1 year old.

    from my extensive online research California and Texas closures have left the actual open franchise count much lower than is represented by the number you have alluded to.

    I believe that when the new figures come out the current no. at this time, November 2010, will be closer to 3300 or 3400, at the highest, quite possibly less than 3000.

    I and my wife are in touch with 6 or 7 other franchisees, my acct does the books for 3 franchises in Brooklyn, I stay in touch with an owner of 3 in British Columbia, I met at club camp, 13 franchises altogether. The best of all the franchises we are in touch with is 600 members in 2 clubs they closed the third, down from a total of 2500 members in 3 clubs 3 years ago to 1200 in 2 clubs now, (huge territories). The worst are working to meet the negative cash flow of their clubs at around 150 members.

    Most clubs we deal with when transfers or guest passes are called in are below 300 members, many below 200 members. We are in a resort community and will on occasion host traveling club owners from other areas. this past week we spent time with people from the cape who have gone from 300 to 150, and are working full time jobs to cover the negative cashflow at their club, (which they paid 6 figures to buy).

    I seriously do not expect more than 1200 open franchises when the dust settles, 2 years from now. as I stated in a previous post, the typical break even no for a club is 300 members. the current average membership across the entire co. according to my research is 250. that would feel very precarious to me if I was the CEO of Curves international.

    Curves International has suffered a 33% decline in gross revenue over the past 2 years. this next year should be interesting. Frankly, Curves international needs to make a dramatic change to their business or they will be a much smaller entity in the very near future, in my opinion.

  1001. Karen on November 18th, 2010 11:08 am

    Hello Geoff,

    Thank you for the info. That number comes from the Curves website. I am having a database created from it. That was the count they have posted to the public, I think it is fairly accurate but will have my researcher start to sample clubs.

    The disclosure document filed March 31, 2010 stated 5200 clubs at the end of 2009. So it looks like closures will be in line with last years. That number may start to slow down as larger cities can cycle through the population more time. My database will analysis those figures.

  1002. udomatter on November 18th, 2010 2:08 pm

    I’m with Geoff on this one. Their website is not very accurate in many ways when it comes to club numbers or actual locations. I’ve had many members who travel tell me that they they tried to go to a location they found on the site and when they got there it was closed. They didn’t show up during closed hours, the club was literally no longer there. They have one club listed as 20 miles from my town (about a 1/2 hour drive) when in reality it is more like an hour and a half and 60 miles away.

    At the beginning of October I was curious about the number of existing clubs and the number of them that were for sale so I went on the site state by state and came up with 4238 with 505 of them listed on the clubs for sale site. That was on October 4th so if the 7748 is anywhere close to accurate that would mean a 54% loss. Here’s the information state by state – accurate as to what was on their site, but probably not accurate in reality. I found it interesting that Texas had the highest percentage for sale (23.10%) with Arkansas running a close second at 23.08% and the overall average being 11.92%. And this doesn’t include all the ones who won’t sell and are just biding their time until their agreements are up.

    State # for sale # in state for sale percentage
    AK 3 13 23.08%
    AL 5 61 8.20%
    AR 2 35 5.71%
    AZ 6 70 8.57%
    CA 51 427 11.94%
    CO 13 90 14.44%
    CT 1 42 2.38%
    DC 0 3 0.00%
    DE 2 15 13.33%
    FL 24 180 13.33%
    GA 12 111 10.81%
    HI 2 21 9.52%
    IA 4 70 5.71%
    ID 5 32 15.63%
    IL 23 198 11.62%
    IN 11 121 9.09%
    KS 4 40 10.00%
    KY 16 74 21.62%
    LA 12 71 16.90%
    MA 14 83 16.87%
    MD 6 87 6.90%
    ME 4 26 15.38%
    MN 7 116 6.03%
    MO 7 103 6.80%
    MS 3 29 10.34%
    MT 1 17 5.88%
    NC 17 146 11.64%
    ND 0 14 0.00%
    NE 3 36 8.33%
    NH 2 33 6.06%
    NJ 11 81 13.58%
    NM 5 36 13.89%
    NV 2 25 8.00%
    NY 37 190 19.47%
    OH 26 219 11.87%
    OK 6 38 15.79%
    OR 9 79 11.39%
    PA 17 237 7.17%
    RI 3 17 17.65%
    SC 6 77 7.79%
    SD 1 20 5.00%
    TN 13 92 14.13%
    TX 67 290 23.10%
    UT 1 41 2.44%
    VA 14 130 10.77%
    VT 0 14 0.00%
    WA 10 103 9.71%
    WI 12 135 8.89%
    WV 4 33 12.12%
    WY 1 17 5.88%

    Total 505 4238 11.92%

  1003. udomatter on November 18th, 2010 2:17 pm

    Wow, that sure didn’t transfer over very well – there were actually spaces between all those numbers but with a little work you can still read it. Sorry, I’m just not very good with computers.

    Karen, I forgot to mention that I would love to see a copy of the email you received from CI regarding the 10,000 population. Could you post that here?

  1004. ADMIN on November 22nd, 2010 3:19 pm

    This is comment 1,004 on this post. This is the first UnhappyFranchisee.com post to surpass 1,000 comments.

    While the subject matter is sad, it is great to see the extent to which ex-Curves owners and those who have closed are willing to lend guidance and support to those still struggling through the process. At least you are there for each other…

  1005. Karen on November 24th, 2010 3:08 pm

    The UFOC discloses 9882 club in the US as of the end of 2006. If the internet is correct that is a loss of 56.4 %.

  1006. Karen on November 24th, 2010 3:10 pm

    I have a PACER account and I read that the Zarco case is scheduled to select the December. Will keep those interested informed.

  1007. curveslawsuit on November 27th, 2010 9:26 pm

    Does anyone know if CI is actually filing judgments against franchisees who “abandon” their territories. My situation is very different than most, but I have a collection from Serota & Assocs for $100K+ for 2 territories we sold in 2005. We don’t have any assets so it would be moot for CI to sue us…I don’t see alot of judgments filed against franchisees on Pacer…any thoughts are appreciated.

  1008. Judgements on November 27th, 2010 10:36 pm

    In order for Curves to write off the loss and offset income taxes they need a judgement to validate the loss, at least on the old agreements. The new ones have a promissory note in them for the royalties; so I am not sure if it is required under that agreement structure. That’s more for a tax lawyer, but I am almost certain that they need a judgement.

  1009. curveslawsuit on November 28th, 2010 8:10 pm

    What about the arbitration and mediation clause in all the agreements. Doesn’t that supercede the lawsuit? I know mediation is very expensive (we had an atty quote us $30K). I just don’t see where CI has filed a many judgements. Am I looking in the wrong place. Also, right now Serota and Assoc has the collection, does this need to revert back to CI for them to file the judgment lawsuit?

  1010. Judgements on November 29th, 2010 3:14 am

    Remember one thing. The only think worse that Curves are the lawyers that tell you you have a chance in court. Everyone in that ZARCO suit took it up the you know what by ZARCO. They will be the ONLY winners. The Lawyers. If I were you ignore all communications from Curves short of a summons to court.

  1011. Has CURVES Become the “Trailer Park of Gyms”? : Unhappy Franchisee on November 30th, 2010 11:08 am

    [...] a recent Curves franchise discussion (CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story), Deborah recounted what she describes as the unscrupulous overselling of the Curves franchise [...]

  1012. ADMIN on November 30th, 2010 11:22 am

    Recent post. Comments invited:
    Has CURVES Become the “Trailer Park of Gyms”?

    Has CURVES Become the “Trailer Park of Gyms”?

    Other recent Curves posts:

    CURVES Franchise Lawsuit Settlements

    CURVES International 2010 Franchise Disclosure Document (FDD)

  1013. LA Gurl on November 30th, 2010 1:19 pm

    I feel bad for Curves franchise owners but blaming the company and trying to sue them because your concept is outdated seems rather silly.

    Did Blockbuster franchisees sue Blockbuster because people stopped renting movies from stores? Why would anyone go to Blockbuster when they can get unlimited dvds from Netflix for $8.99 a month, no late fees, great service.

    The Curves by my house is a room with a few flimsy machines for $30 bucks a month, very limited hours, and extra charge for classes. LA Fitness is huge, modern, with a swimming pool, tons of machines, free classes for $29/month no contract. Planet fitness provides a ton more than Curves for $10 a month.

    I just don’t think Curves is viable. Is it really the franchisor’s fault that the concept you all believed became a dinosaur? Can you blame them for getting what they can out of it before it all disappears?

  1014. Justine Curver on November 30th, 2010 4:59 pm

    LA Gurl, Curves cultural environment may not impress you with a quick look in the door, but it’s different enough from the big places you mention that the attendance rates are incredibly higher.
    For the 8 years I had my Curves clubs, we had monthly attendance by at least of 60 to 70% of the members and an overall (annual) average of 2.1 visits per week. That’s 25 times the national average of 8 visits per year (to a health club).
    Health Clubs/Gyms are notorious for keeping these numbers secret, because they are so low, but the thing to do is to ask former employees. They’ll usually be honest about it because they’ll be so disillusioned by it.
    Curves clubs (were/are) places where communities were built and thrived, making it more likely that a woman would follow thru on her plans to exercise. That was our success. However, as simple as it is, it’s hard to market an intangible like that, especially in the cut-throat realm of health clubs. In recent years, Curves International itself seemed to have a hard time remembering that focus, and kept redesigning itself to compete with 24hr Fitness (et al) instead of keeping 24hr fitness (et al) competing with our successes. That’s one of the major reasons why so many of us are unhappy and feel they did not fulfill their part of the bargain.

  1015. LA Gurl on December 1st, 2010 11:14 am

    Justine Curver:
    Thanks for your response.
    I’m not clear on why marketing your results would be difficult, as what you said about your club doesn’t seem intangible at all.
    I would definitely take notice if I got a postcard, email or flyer from my local Curves that said their monthly attendance was “60 to 70% of the members and an overall (annual) average of 2.1 visits per week. That’s 25 times the national average of 8 visits per year (to a health club).”
    I think that would be very powerful, especially since they’re across the street. Why wouldn’t someone walk across the street and tell me that before I went to LA Fitness?
    I suspect that Curves couldn’t do that on a national basis because of the varying results of different clubs but why don’t clubs like yours do that?
    I don’t mean to be negative, but I wonder how many clubs that are struggling and blaming the corporation are like the club across the street from me… I’ve never so much as gotten a flyer or doorhanger from them, much less a personal invitation. If my business was failing, I’d be out in the neighborhood going door to door, not waiting around for someone else to get word to my own community.

  1016. udomatter on December 1st, 2010 1:54 pm

    LA Gurl

    I don’t think many if any of the Curves owners are suing because of it being an “outdated concept” as you mentioned. The concept itself isn’t outdated – there are hydraulic circuits everywhere and although it may not look like much, they do work. About 60% of my members have been members for at least 5 years and they still come in faithfully 3-5 times a week partly because of the relationships built with other members and employees but mostly because it makes them feel better and gives them the energy to get through their day. Of the other 40%, 25-30% also come in regularly so I only have 10-15% of my membership that is really irregular in attendance.

    I think the bigger problem is that Curves International oversaturated the market in larger areas affecting membership numbers in many clubs and sold franchises in areas that are too small in population to support a women’s only facility then charged them a $10,000 closing fee and future royalties for failing prior to the end of their agreements. This, after having received little or no support from CI.

    We pay good money every month for advertising, 3% of our income and get very little in return for it. I for one pay them about 4% a month because my membership numbers are so low that the minimum advertising fee is more than 3% of what I bring in. Royalties included they get 9-10% of my income every month and I’ve gotten 1-2 new members a year who say they heard about us from national advertising campaigns. Not a very good return on a 9% investment. Local advertising is something I would love to do, but I have nothing left over to advertise locally. Even doing something cost effective like doorhangers or flyers does cost something and many of us can barely pay our rent and utilities after paying our franchise fees.

    I partly blame CI for selling the franchise in this area to begin with and I partly blame myself for not doing a better job of researching the numbers prior to buying it. I blame them only because they had the knowledge, but chose not to share it.

  1017. curveslawsuit on December 2nd, 2010 12:55 pm

    Can anyone answer this question. When I search Pacer for cases involving CI, there are not many lawsuits filed by CI against franchisees. There were over hundreds of franchises closed in 2009 and many of those abandoned. Have all of these franchisees proceeded to arbitration and mediation or is CI just not pursuing the lawsuits. It just seems strange with that many closed franchises there aren’t more lawsuits.

  1018. Karen on December 2nd, 2010 2:33 pm

    CI tends to file lawsuits against franchisees in the 170th and 414th state courts. Not sure why, does anyone know? Perhaps it is becaus decisions are not on pacer. A court reporter will provide the transcript for $4.25 per page. I went thru a reporter at the 170 th court and only one went to trial, defendent didn’t show. The rest are either pending or resulted in dismissal due to bankruptcy lawyer notifying the court of bankruptcy so there was nothing for CI to claim.

    Where CI is the defendent I have yet to find a trial that went ahead. All were dismissed out settled out of court. There were 9882 clubs at one time and now about 4300 (if the internet is correct). 5500 club have gone down in the US alone and there are no case transcripts. WOW! Would love some insight on that!

  1019. Ray Beavers on December 20th, 2010 10:38 am

    What has happened to everyone, last post Decd. 2nd?

  1020. jd on December 20th, 2010 2:50 pm

    Well, if you look on PACER the group action lawsuit has been settled.

  1021. tickedoff on December 20th, 2010 4:53 pm

    For those of us who do not axcess pacer could you tell us the outcome. Thanks!

  1022. jd on December 20th, 2010 5:17 pm

    They don’t state the settlements, just that the case has been dismissed as of 12/8/2010.

  1023. undecided on December 30th, 2010 5:41 pm

    For the past month the Yahoo Curves Owners group posts are from Curves that are closing. Seems like they are closing at a really rapid rate. I just can’t imagine that there will be many Curves still open by July 1st of this year. Very few are renewing their franchise agreement when it is up and the few that are are just renewing for a year at a time. This is so very, very sad. CI sure dropped the ball on all of us.

  1024. Attorney Hater on January 1st, 2011 9:40 pm

    The only thing worse that the franchisor are the attorneys who give false faith in order to bilk their clients out of money in order to sell hope. We paid thousands of dollars to the attorneys. They were the only winners out of this whole process. Never believe a franchise lawyer when they tell you you have a chance in court against a franchise system. You don’t read your franchise agreement and understand that it will stick.

  1025. Zarco is a c*cksucker on January 8th, 2011 5:50 am

    He’s worse than Heavin Never believe a franchise lawyer. They are all liars.

  1026. tickedoff on January 9th, 2011 2:27 pm

    I closed in 2009 and did not pay the $2,500 CI wanted from me. Now of coarse they say I owe over 27,000 in future franchise and advertising fees. I have just ignored the whole thing and the only one I have heard from is Serota, Avis & Assoc. I went on line and found out they a just a glorified collection agency trying to get whatever money they can. I was told by Robert Lay that in the state of Texas it is illegal for CI to collect these fees after you have closed. He also said that if they continued to harass me that I would file a lawsuit against them and Curves.I have ignored the phone calls and the last one I received I informed them I would not speak with them. If you look them up on the Internet they are real idiots and are out of Illinois. Has anyone out there know what happened to Robert and why he does not post anymore. I feel like the one person that I thought was on our side had abandoned us. Where did he go????? Can anyone give more info on what is happening with the past Curves owners. Where has everyone gone and why are we not giving each other more updates. Someone please respond. To the last post what happened to you?? Thanks in advance for any info you can share.

  1027. undecided on January 9th, 2011 3:49 pm

    I always thought “unhappy” was the screen name Robert Lay used on this list serve. I may be wrong, but look back to Admin.’s post of Sept. 10, 2010. And I also heard from another source that Robert’s wife was seriously ill and that he wanted to concentrate on getting her well. But, I too, wonder why there aren’t more posters here. Maybe everyone that is closing is getting smart and just ignoring CI’s threats.

  1028. CA Ex-Owner on January 10th, 2011 1:55 am

    Tickedoff and Undecided, and others who wonder what happened to Unhappy, (who, yes, is Robert Lay) — if you look back around the July 2010 timeframe or even before, there was a person posting by the name of JD. He was very irritating to all of us, many felt he was a “mole” for Curves International. He consistently was a thorn in our sides, his comments were much like kicking us when we were down. Unhappy ended up not posting much after that and an explanation why might be found with ADMIN’s comment on September 4th. He is definitely missed by all of us, as he was a wealth of information.

    I also do not know why people have slowed down in the postings. It may be that time is passing and we are finally moving on with our lives without Curves. In our case, we ignored all their threats, did not pay the $10,000, nor later, the threat of over $42,000. It has been two years since that time and nothing has come of their threats, thank goodness. I wonder if the people who are involved in the lawsuits maybe aren’t supposed to be posting what is going on with their cases or the results?

  1029. RB on February 2nd, 2011 12:20 pm

    As we are in the last stages of closing our curves and losing all the money we invested we find out how it is being spent. Check out this clip on youtube of the new show Secret Millionaire airing on ABC April 3rd. Check out the Heavin’s digs and they have it because of our hard work.

    http://apps.facebook.com/uchannels/channels/view/CurvesChannel/ByyKVPu_31o
    Would love to hear from any one else closing before franchise is up!!! What did curves have to say. Are they threatening you?

  1030. Next Steop on February 11th, 2011 10:58 pm

    I was thinking about all of the bankrupt people thanks to CI. When I bought my first Curves, I did not know that the founder had gone bankrupt himself. It was not until I went to club camp when I found out. We can look back at that now and we can see he did learn his lesion from his bankruptcy. Get someone else to take the fall…

  1031. Next Steop on February 11th, 2011 11:26 pm

    Well Heck… I should have used spell check…Sorry.

  1032. FitDude on February 16th, 2011 1:26 pm

    More members left high and dry: http://adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/523035/Two-local-businesses-shut-down.html?nav=5017

  1033. Next Step on February 21st, 2011 10:45 pm

    Well, you say that fitdude which I am sure is not a dig at the owner, but when there has never been any support from the management with these clubs, it is no wonder that members are left like they are. Most of the time you can not even turn to other owners in your area, because you are so darn close to each other you are competition. We never should have had to compete with ourselves but that is greed for you….

    I know that just closing one day is not how I would want to do it, but when you come to the point that you can’t pay the next month rent then what are you supposed to do? Your landlord will just come an shut you down anyway. I am just saying the members look at me and say O she has got a lot of money. Really, I drive a car that is 10 years old and can’t fix the broken window, because I sunk myself with Curves. They don’t care about me and CI doesn’t care about me. So who cares? Just other owners who know my situation because they are their themselves. REMEBER CI DOES NOT CARE AND 90% OF THE MEMBERS DO NOT CARE!

  1034. Sadderbutwiser on February 22nd, 2011 3:27 am

    Drove by the site of one of our old closed Curves to find a NEW fitness franchise has opened two doors down from our old location. The franchise is called VIBE. Anyone ever heard of it? I wish I could have warned the owners not to buy a fitness franchise.

  1035. RB on February 22nd, 2011 12:33 pm

    ■Next Step,
    We feel Your Pain!! We are closing our club ASAP. After asking Curves for help and receiving none we informed them of our intent to close. Here is there response.
    Curves International, Inc. (“Curves”) has received your communication regarding the struggles you are having with your franchise. Please be aware that closing at this time is not an option. In order for Curves to consider any course of action in regards to your franchise, you need to provide all the information requested in the attached Club Worksheet and Expense Report. Please return the completed Club Worksheet and Expense Report to Curves in the next two business days by return email or by facsimile to (254) 751-3035. Curves will attempt to respond to your initial communication within 5 to 7 business days from the receipt of the completed Club Worksheet. We look forward to assisting you in this matter.

    Challenges make you discover things about yourself that you never really knew.

    What a crock of S**t

  1036. FitDude on February 22nd, 2011 5:19 pm

    Next Step,
    Sorry if my comment came across as a dig against owners. That was not my intent; I was just taking a quote out of the article. I know of many Curves owners who probably cared too much for their members to the point of going deeply in debt to keep their club afloat. My grip is absolutely against CI corporate- a study in greed. They obviously care nothing for owners or members.

  1037. Next Step on February 22nd, 2011 9:37 pm

    I know FitDude, that is why I stated that I did not think you meant anything against us. My only point was that the owners are the ones stuck in the middle and no one cares. I agree about how much we care about the members that is one reason I hung on for so long. Last year I was giving away the workout shirts when CI discontinued them. Of course the out cry made them bring the shirts back but it took 3 months to restock. My members were pissed at me and thought I was lying to them. I had people yell at me in the circuit. That is when I lost it, respect for my members and well I already did not like CI. Now it stays open because it is still break even, but I don’t care anymore! I will not be renewing this year!

    As for RB, I had heard that they were telling you this stuff. Just remember don’t sign anything until a lawyer looks at the papers. CI will sue you. I know I just talked to one of them this week and they say they are suing for failure fees.

    Sadderbutwiser
    I really don’t know if another fitness center could not make it, I just think Curves did not change with the time, and that is one killer. Not to mention that we had a great concept, but the greed of CI dumped clubs right on top of each other. We can’t compete against ourselves. I know someone said other franchisors do this all the time, but we were not selling hamburgers. People paid us once a month not every other day.

  1038. Next Step on February 22nd, 2011 10:01 pm

    I should be more clear about breakeven, we loose a lot of money every month. I can’t work a different job, but since I am there all the time we do have the money to cover the bills. If CI would not sue us and make us file bankruptcy I would have closed last year. After being yelled at I really don’t want to be there anymore. I am counting down the days till we can close and then I can finally get a real job.

    When I leave Curves behind me I will still be 40,000 in debt, but my husband does not want to file bankruptcy, so I will pay it off. Of course my credit score is whole 400 (probably not that high), but he still has good credit. Nevertheless, I will be paying for this club for about 5 more years or more.

  1039. Next Step on February 23rd, 2011 10:33 pm

    Just so everyone knows I think that CI is really pushing new sales this year. I noticed on cuves community that there is a lot of new stuff for new clubs. Also I think that is a reason they did the secrete millionaire show. To encourage new sales. Just came across the curves blog

    http://curvesfranchiseblog.com/
    Lots of crap, but there is a link to this page

    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-10-most-brilliant-franchise-founders-of-all-time-2011-2#comment-4d65c1adcadcbbbf58040000

    Here you can make a post so all of the would be victims of CI will know not to purchase a club.

  1040. ADMIN on February 24th, 2011 2:36 pm

    When posting on those sites, be sure to include a link back to this thread where the admirers can peruse more than 1000 comments from franchisees with a little different point of view about what constitutes a brilliant founder:
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-robert-lays-story/

  1041. Anon on February 25th, 2011 12:50 am

    Was looking into buying a Curves franchise and saw this website. I will absolutely not buy one now. I am so sorry for those who did buy one and who experienced the losses that they did. I hope you are all on the road to getting your lives back together and it pains me to read all of your stories. Thank you for sharing your candid advice to help the rest of us and again, i wish you all the best.

  1042. Curves Owner2 on February 26th, 2011 9:50 pm

    Why is it that as a society we recognize and admire those who have money, even when they get their money at the expense of others?

  1043. Gary Heavin on ABC Secret Millionaire: What do CURVES Franchisees Think? : Unhappy Franchisee on March 1st, 2011 5:13 pm

    [...] ago, have voiced their discontent in more than a thousand comments on UnhappyFranchisee.com (Read CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story and  CURVES: Curves Posts on Unhappy [...]

  1044. ADMIN on March 1st, 2011 5:56 pm

    Curves founder Gary Heavin and his wife Diane will be featured in an episode of the new “inspirational” ABC series “Secret Millionaire.”

    We ask:  Do Curves franchisees perceive Heavin’s Secret Millionaire participation as positive brand exposure that will benefit existing clubs? 

    Or is it an ego-fueled insult to the thousands of failed or failing Curves franchise owners who are now, themselves, suffering financial hardship?

    Feel watch the promo clip and share your view here:  Gary Heavin on ABC Secret Millionaire: What do CURVES Franchisees Think?

  1045. ADMIN on March 5th, 2011 11:04 pm

    Placing comments on other sites is a great idea, especially if you link back to the thousands of comments and sad stories on UnhappyFranchisee.com. It’s easy to dismiss a single commenter as disgruntled, but not so easy to dismiss the experiences, stories and hardships Curves franchisees have had the courage to share here over the past three years. Letters to ABC and news organizations can refer back here as well.

    Here are some examples of comments you can make, along with the top three links to share. Feel free to copy and paste:

    - For the past 3 years, UnhappyFranchisee.com has been hosting the insider’s view of the Curves collapse from the viewpoint of those who know it best: struggling Curves franchise owners. Read the posts at CURVES: Curves Posts on Unhappy Franchisee
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-unhappy-franchisee/

    - 2500 Curves domestic franchises have failed in the past three years. That’s 1/3 of the total US clubs. Instead of the support and compassion the franchisees expected, Curves International unleashed a collection agency on the ruined franchisees for having the nerve to fail before their contracts were up. Here’s what they think of
    Gary Heavin on ABC Secret Millionaire appearance:
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-gary-heavin-secret-millionaire/

    - The millionaire has another, bigger secret. More than 1000 comments by Curves franchisees tell the real story behind the Curves hype:
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-robert-lays-story/

    Writers and news media can feel free to contact the publisher of this site at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com

  1046. Curves Owner2 on March 7th, 2011 3:06 pm

    If I was to tell our story to the news, what issues do you see this causing, and should I talk to a lawyer first?

    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-franchise-resale-buyer-alleges-fraud/

  1047. ADMIN on March 9th, 2011 8:10 am

    CURVES INTL Must Repay Members of Closed Curves Fitness Clubs
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-intl-must-repay-members-of-closed-curves-fitness-clubs/

  1048. ADMIN on March 10th, 2011 1:48 pm

    Curves franchisee sent this by email:

    “I just went to abc.com and entered a comment. I suggested that just prior to the show they run a 20/20 segment on Gary and Diane and how they’ve made their millions and how they’ve treated the owners of closed Curves. Suggest you advise all of your mailing list to do the same. Told abc it would definitely keep people tuned in to see this GENEROUS and GIVING couple….”

    Great idea. Don’t forget to link back to this post.

    Cat wrote: “Has anyone thought about a Facebook campaign?

    There is a Secret Millionaire facebook page that could be “Liked” and posted to, but probably not anonymously.

  1049. FitDude on April 7th, 2011 10:58 am

    Just saw this article online about the Curves corporate office issuing refunds to members of 6 clubs in NY State left hanging when the clubs closed in 2009: http://pearlriver.patch.com/articles/curves-members-locked-out-in-brewster-pearl-river-pelham-and-beyond-will-receive-refunds-2. When I read the statement by Mike Raymond, I almost chocked on my coffee laughing!

    “When it was brought to our attention that certain of our independently-owned franchises were not treating members in the same spirit of fairness we pride ourselves on, we took all necessary steps to ensure that such was corrected,”

    It actually sounds like these “independently-owned” franchisees treated their members just like the Curves corporate office treated them- they were “pruned”.

  1050. Justine Curver on April 9th, 2011 11:34 pm

    Fitdude, see the posting by Admin on March 9th. It seems to me that the Heavins (et al) are just tyring to put a pretty spin on the orders they were given by the NY state AG, per NYstate LAW.

  1051. L. Rivera on April 23rd, 2011 6:14 pm

    I need to ask a few questions about my nightmare with Curves International. I am besides myself with actual court proceedings and need some ideas and advise.

  1052. Former Curves Owner from NY on April 24th, 2011 8:51 pm

    This is in response to FitDude’s post regarding Curves Int’l settlement with NY AG. The associated press added the address’ of the clubs listed above. They were not named in the original complaint nor is there any indication that they cheated their customers of any monies. I know, because I owned one of the clubs. I spoke personally with the AG’s office in Suffolk County New York where the complaints originated from. They corrected the press release to make sure it did not implicate or imply that others were accused of the same as the club that received complaints. The AP took it upon themselves to “add value” to the press release by using Curves’ listings of clubs that closed and picked a bunch by name.

  1053. Justine Curver on April 26th, 2011 11:20 pm

    to L Rivera~
    If you have actually had court proceedings initialized by Curves International, have you talked to an attorney in your state?
    Generally, state law supercedes the codicels of the franchise agreement, so it is important to check out what your state law says.
    Also, if you get into court, even though state law supercedes the details of the agreement, the judge has the final call in interpreting the law.
    Exactly where are you at when you say “actual court proceedings”?
    And what state are you in?

  1054. Anna on May 15th, 2011 2:37 pm

    I closed 2 franchises in 2009. I started getting the letters from the Illinois collection agency, and still owed back rent in addition to loans for the initial opening and expenses (especially in the last year). We ended up filing bankruptcy late in 2010 and everything was dismissed this past April. It is a great relief, even though we
    still owe some money because some of it was secured on our house. BIG lesson learned there. Things are still tight, but manageable. I still have a few friends who
    are hanging on with their Curves-barely. I hope and pray they make it through this,
    but I am SO glad to be free of CI. I have so much anger towards them and the
    way they treat their franchisees. I do have a question for anyone who has closed.
    I still have all of my equipment-I tried to sell it to other owners-what a joke-none of
    them could afford it! And I absolutely refused to donate it to a women’s prison.One of my friends donated hers to the state women’s prison here anyway,
    so I don’t think they would even want it. I have talked to one person who actually
    auctioned his off and did pretty well. Does anyone have experience with this or
    any suggestions as to how to sell the equipment. Thanks for any feedback.

  1055. Karen on May 16th, 2011 10:39 am

    Anna, I am so sorry to hear about your troubles. I am in court with CI as well. There are 39.5% of the clubs in the US remaining of the 9882 that once existed. It is probably much less but that is whats posted (if anyone could check their state that would be great) on the website. I am amazed that CI pursues future royalties in court based on a business model with this sort of closure rate. Is a franchisor not bound to some sort of reasonable expectation of profit, there are 6000 franchisees that have lost their retirement, homes and health.

    The Power to Amaze, how true it is.

  1056. unhappy on June 22nd, 2011 3:14 pm

    Well it been quite a while since I posted but just wanted to let owners of the 24/7 clubs know that Curves International is now filling suit against them and is sending out letters of termination to them. There are very few clubs left in the US and those that are are still closing at a steady pace. Our lawsuit is finally working its way through the court system and will be going to trial if a settlement is not reached late this summer. As par for the course, Howie has tried to delay the proceedings as long as he can but our judgment day against him is finally coming up. We can hardly wait……..

  1057. Janelle on July 6th, 2011 7:10 am

    I have read all your emails and are starting to wondering if continuing with a purchase to buy a franchise here in australia is a good thing ? The figures seem to stack up for the business but is that all I should be looking at ? is the company curves really the issue ? the owner isn’t selling because of hard times she wants to travel and has 3 businesses and is only selling 2 so the fact that she is keeping 1 seems like it hasn’t been that bad to her ? I know that over saturation has caused alot of your businesses to fail have they corrected this at all over the years ? please let me know your thoughts before we go further

  1058. Janelle on July 6th, 2011 7:12 am

    I am sorry to hear your stories and I hope that you remain strong knowing that you have people praying for you .

  1059. unhappy on July 6th, 2011 2:47 pm

    For heaven sake don’t buy a franchise from Curves. go back and read all the complaints and you will see all the crooked, deceitful and morally wrong behavior that Howie does to franchises. it will be the worst mistake of your life if you buy it.

  1060. Janelle on July 6th, 2011 9:15 pm

    this sounds terrible to ask but does howie look after the australian franchises as well ? was over saturation the key issue for all the closures do you think or was there more to it ? they seem to have 1 franchise per 40,000 is this the same for america ? I know that alot has happened to you all over quite a few years and I’m just wondering if they have corrected the problem ? I know that they have treated you like crap and that is wrong no one should be trated that way . But I can’t seem to find any issues on the australian front ? If you know of any please let me know ?

  1061. C. Clark on July 9th, 2011 8:00 am

    Nice to hear from you again Unhappy….Is it really you??
    I have been forced to close both my franchises by CI, due to not being able to catch up on royalty fees….Now they have served me with papers to go to court, and they are asking for the franchise royalty fees, as well as the royalty fees for the remainder of the 10 years should I have stayed open….
    I have spoken to their lawyers, have expained to them that I never said I would not pay the royalty fees that i owed, but that they should reflect the correct amount for the royalty month…
    I am frustrated with the thought that they were allowed to ignore my calls, emails, and ignore my cry for help when I needed it, and now they make me look like the baddy…They ignored me when I had complained about a new Curves that was opening only 2klms away from mine, They ignored me when I wanted to sort out Curvaceous, and they ignored me when I wanted to pay the late royalty fees
    when it was available to me….the Legal department simply said to me that it is no longer in their hands and i has gone to council.
    When they sold the franchises to us they were not transparent, honest about how many Curves there really were in the US.
    Most of the franchise owner out of the US have no idea what is going on in the US.
    Their lawyer wants mediate with me, but I feel that I only owe them for the royalty fees..no more no less…and most owners left that I know are only staying open in fear of what lies ahead of them.
    I use to read the comments above and could not wait to walk away from the nightmare and now I feel free dispite the law suit pending, I don’t even want to hear the name C outload.
    unhappy if you have any advise on what I shouldn’t do please any advise would be good, as I will not be hiring a lawyer. can’t afford one…as they are passing their lawyer fees on to me….of course.
    Do you happen to know if the courts are making franchises for the remainder of their 10 years royalty fees???
    wishing you and everyone out there peace…

    P.S funny how we were asked not to take our members to court for payment, yet CI is quick to do so…
    ..

  1062. karen on July 9th, 2011 5:32 pm

    CC, I am going to court with CI for future royalties, it will however take years to get through the system. Currently one third of the franchises that once existed in the US (9882) are open. I wonder where that number will be two years from now?

    I would like everyone who has ever closed a club in the US and Canada to contact me. I doubt however that those 6000+are reading this post.

  1063. JW on July 9th, 2011 7:56 pm

    Actually the peak number of units occurred in 2004 with approximately 7600 in the U.S. Still, Curves has closed an impressive number of units. If Curves were publicly traded Heavin would have been sent packing and a capable woman would be leading that brand.

  1064. karen on July 10th, 2011 9:38 am

    JW, The offering circular that CI filed for 2006 shows 9882 clubs in the US in the year 2005.

  1065. Karen on July 10th, 2011 10:02 am

    JW, and yes I had wished that CI was public so that there had been a Board of Directors to whom the execs had to report. Needless to say this executive team would be long gone and a person with strategic development knowledge guiding the way.

  1066. justine on July 12th, 2011 9:48 pm

    Karen,
    I’ve closed two in the US. They had been open 7.5 years and 5.25 years before I closed them.
    You said you’d like us to contact you, but why and how?
    Thanks.

  1067. undecided on July 17th, 2011 8:03 pm

    I went through the list of open clubs that CI has listed as “Curves Locations” on their website. I included only the 50 states….not Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, etc. and the number I came up with was 3783. And some locations were listed twice! And if you go to the Yahoo owners website there are at least 2-3 clubs closing every week or so. And that is just the owners who frequent that website.

    It is so very, very sad that this is happening. And I really don’t see how GH sleeps at night. I just know that I no longer have one little iota of respect for him and, as they say, “Paybacks are Hell”…..so he has a lot of paybacks coming to him!

  1068. End In Sight on July 17th, 2011 8:13 pm

    Has anyone closed a few months prior to end of franchise agreement and just let CI take their payments without additional penalties?

  1069. Karen on July 20th, 2011 8:03 am

    Undecided, that is a closure of 6099 clubs in the US alone. What amazes me is that CI still attempts to collect future roylaties from a franchise system with such a high failure rate, 62% and growing as you say. I hope that unhappy’s court case changes all that.

  1070. Becky on July 22nd, 2011 12:42 pm

    I am SO glad that I found all of you. I was putting some thought into pursuing the purchase of a franchise, but after reading all of this, I will run the other way. Thanks for being so candid, since I know that it must have been difficult for some, if not all, of you to post your stories. God Bless each and every one of you!

  1071. Jill on July 24th, 2011 4:13 am

    About to close my club after owning for 5 years. i am in debt $250,000 and my club is slowly dying I love the concept, do as much as I can to keep the members but they still leave. I will be up for more money and at 60 I am too old to restart. What a disaster

  1072. Lennie on July 26th, 2011 12:15 pm

    what legally can they do to the clubs with unstaffed hours that are midway through their contracts? Can they legally charge us more monthly fees for going against policy even though it is not addressed in our contract?

    Also wanted to comment that the reason CI is giving for being against 24/7 is to protect brand integrity…how is opening shopcurves.com to the public keeping the brand integrity intact? Now anyone can buy Curves branded items??? So when I see a 400lb man in a Curves Tee at my local grocery store, I am supposed to be happy for the free advertising??

  1073. n on July 27th, 2011 11:29 am

    Ive managed and owned a Curves for 13 years I love my job but Curves over sold territory (5 clubs in a 25 mile radius) around me taking my membership from 800 to 300 in two years.one club opened 2 miles from me on my border her territory town was ten miles away. Shes closer to my town border than her own.They never enforced dues transfers, now the very contracts I sold my members saying their dues will never go up as long as they are a Curves member..is now up to the transferred to clubs to honor or not…Sure I get sales support (just started 3 years ago) I get no protection no non compete from Curves.. Now with the economy cannibalizing my membership, I will not be renewing my agreement. Love the concept of Curves
    (by the way I was at the training when Gary swore he would never increase the cost of a Curves franchise…) Tired of being lied to, and not supported by corporate

  1074. christina on July 30th, 2011 6:48 pm

    karen, i’m with justine, how & why to contact you?? closed my club, received letters from avis. so, you stated that ci IS actually taking you to court? did a sheriff serve you paperwork? i am curious . yet i do believe that we as powerful people need to band together in this shitshow of an ordeal!

  1075. chris on July 31st, 2011 11:39 am

    same issue as christina on july 30th… please contact me thank-you

  1076. karen on August 2nd, 2011 8:39 am

    Justine, Christina and Chris:

    Yes, I will be going to court with Curves, Yes, of course I was served paperwork, and I am filing a defence. I believe that it will not be heard until 2013. I am in Canada, but the principles of common law apply in the US as well as does the Texas franchise law. I enjoy reading scholarly contract law books and case law. I will do a great deal of the work myself with a great lawyer refining and presenting my case. Legal costs will be kept to a minimum. My intent is to make CI think twice about reselling failed territories and taking people such as ourselves to court for future royalties. As I develop my case I will calling upon people such as yourselves to provide evidence affidavits etc.

    I know there are rules regarding how we contact and I will ask the admin to inform me as to what they are.

  1077. christina on August 2nd, 2011 9:18 pm

    karen_ how exactly were you served your paperwork? ups, fed ex, sheriff @ front door, certified mail?? i am curious as to how you received yours as we have all received it differently. seems odd, right? you think they would stick to one outlet. thanks

  1078. karen on August 2nd, 2011 9:31 pm

    Christina:

    If CI was taking you to court you would receive a “Notice of Action” that has to be handed to you by a process server in Canada but I would assume its similar in the US. CI also hires collection agencies to collect, that is not an action filed with a court. Can you describe what you received?

  1079. Ann on August 2nd, 2011 11:06 pm

    I bought a five-year franchise in 2006, so my sentence is almost over. Actually, I have 28 more days!
    I know some of you call him Howie, but I call him Gare Bear–altho he surely isn’t the cuddly kind. He wants my Smart equip back. Funny that it’s totally paid for. I guess I have never heard of someone demanding back equip that is totally paid for…duh me. This gal won’t be sending it in his postage-paid boxes (what a guy to pay the postage for me!). But what is a girl to do with 10K worth of equipment that no one wants? And then there are the machines…I am (what?) supposed to either destroy them or give them to a prison. As my daughter succintly said, “Yeah, we need more buff gal prisoners around,waiting to get out…” (no offense, some are really not bad and do want to be healthy). At any rate, I am not doing that either. Is there a class action suit about the machines and the Smart equip??? If so, count me in. It infuriates me.
    MORE IMPORTANTLY, is there a class action for the 24/7 clubs??? Because I am one!!! That was one of my main reasons for not renewing. I couldn’t deal with corporate anymore and even tho my girls LOVED it, and I repeat, LOVED it, I couldn’t do another franchise with Gare the bear and give up my door. SO, if there is a class action about the door, I’m in, okay???? PLEASE let me know asap!!!!
    Ann in NC

  1080. christina on August 3rd, 2011 12:57 pm

    @Karen, I have received numerous paperwork filed by ci, letters from their attorneys, collections agencies, paperwork via ci legal department,etc. having any club owner from the US join you in your crusade, would be pointless as we are located in a different country. i do support you however, as i feel as though ci has been unfair in their saturation in all of our territorial grounds. somewhere around the year 2000 or so, ci decided to take territories and split existing ones. after original territories closed or sold he did so. unfair, unethical & downright greedy. the class action suit that was in the past dealt with these same issues. ci is misleading when they advertise on their own site that they in fact support their franchisees. if our monthly projection sheets were looked upon, then ci would see we are failing & perhaps call us to ask/inquire or merely suggest. this however, they neglected to do. they claim that we as an owner have “abandoned” our clubs….well, truth is, we were already abandoned by ci first. i would love to investigate exactly where our monthly advertising fees were placed??? interesting fact, a new ci franchisee was listed @ approx, over $40,000 just a few years back on their web page. now, their current listing price is a smidge over $20,000. the value of curves has dropped…not that i needed to inform you of that fact…this we all know. best of luck on your case.

  1081. unhappy on August 5th, 2011 12:03 am

    ATTENTION ALL 24/7 CURVES CLUBS
    Howie has declared an all out war against all owners who have 24/7 hours, He is terminating all franchise agreements and filling law suits in TX. against all 24/7 clubs. If you haven’t received your termination letter as of yet you should be getting it some time this month. Once you receive that within 6 weeks if you don’t comply with CII demands about ceasing 24/7 a lawsuit will be filed against you for the amount owed on franchise and advertising fees for the rest of the franchise agreement term and up to a hundred thousand dollars for damage done to the Curves brand. While there is nothing in most of the contracts before March 2009 about 24/7 hours most owners won’t be able to defend themselves against this as the lawyers in TX are requesting a 7 to 10 thousand dollar retainer to handle the case. This could have been avoided if the 24/7 owners had banded together and filed a group action lawsuit as most lawyers recommended but now once they are served they will be on their own. Once again the Curves owners are getting screwed.

  1082. jd on August 5th, 2011 11:22 am

    I thought Unhappy said that the initial group action lawsuit was supposed to bankrupt the company in the first quarter last year? Instead, it seems like the real winners of that case were Zarco. Hell, even on BMM people talk about how Zarco would let anyone in the lawsuit if they paid the retainer.

  1083. JM on August 12th, 2011 5:09 pm

    I am friend to a woman that has owned a Curves for a little over a year and is now trying to sell it. She would admit that she was eager and excited and should have researched more but she WANTED to believe the stuff the previous owner and CI told her about the potential of the gym she bought.

    It is in a rural area and has a very limited potential customer base it turns out, everything her regional lady tells her is stuff for urban areas, not out in the hills where there are literally miles between houses. She has pretty much hit her max customer base and can’t do anything about it.

    At this point she is trying to GIVE it away and CI won’t even let her do that. She spent the money her husband left her when he passed on buying this place and has been paying out of her own pocket since to keep it open, hoping that the customers will start showing but they simply aren’t there.

    She has 2 different members that will take it over, and can pay the franchise fees, but they can’t afford the initial costs and the training class costs (which just doubled to $2k). Curves told her bluntly that they don’t care if she closes her doors, but they will not waive a single fee. Plus the 5 YEAR contract they expect someone to sign?

    At this point she is looking for someone to hand it over to and walk away from it and she has no takers, it has no debt, and the lease is paid 1 year in advance, yet still, Curves is more interested in getting their fees than keeping a location open.

    To make it worse, she can’t even DONATE the hardware to a local women’s group so they can continue working out. Curves requires her to either sell them to another curves, or scrap the equipment and prove that it was destroyed, she cannot even store it in a barn or even move it out of the building without permission.

    She has to close her doors in the next month because she cannot afford payroll anymore and she is afraid Curves will come after her and try to take her house or something for closing the business too soon after opening.

    For being a supposedly “christian” company, they certainly are FAR from “Christ Like”.

  1084. JM on August 12th, 2011 5:28 pm

    Sorry to post again so soon, but what REALLY is CI able to do if an owner can’t stay open?
    Do they just try to debit your account for the franchise fees every month until the contract period is over?

    What if the owner literally has no money in the bank to deduct and nothing to sue for? The owner I know has no financial assets at all anymore and her only physical asset is her house, could they really sue her and put a lien on her house over “dues”?

  1085. Guest on August 12th, 2011 10:50 pm

    Well your first mistake is confusing business with religion. Business as they say is BUSINESS. Secondly. they will get a judgement against her because for CI to write off the loss they must have a judgement. If they don’t get the money they will get a judgement and write off bad debt against income. Essentially it is a tax move. Just because you don’t have the money doesn’t mean they won’t take a tax deduction and they need a judgement for that.

  1086. Guest2 on August 13th, 2011 3:21 pm

    Anyone facing this kind of issue should get a lawyer; even if you have to get help from legal aid because you may not have money to pay legal fees.

    Get a lawyer. I agree with Guest. Business is Business.

  1087. Liz on August 16th, 2011 1:44 pm

    As a manager of CURVES and have gone through the closing I can tell you a few things. We were a smart club..we sold smart equipment to another CURVES..sold some of the machines also. and still have some in storeage.
    Never heard from them at all. we were at the end of the contract and did not want to renew…so happy we didn’t!

  1088. End in Sight on August 16th, 2011 2:38 pm

    Liz, When did you close? Were you on a 10 year or 5 year agreement?

  1089. Liz on August 16th, 2011 4:16 pm

    It was a 5 year and it ended last july….2010

  1090. Ann on August 17th, 2011 7:42 am

    I am closing August 31st. after a 5-year franchise! I have a 24/7 club and part of the reason I am clsing is that CI does not approve. My girls LOVE it, and it has kept my door open when other clubs have failed. I hear through the grapevine that there is a class action suit being considered by some of us who are being forced to either close or close our doors because of having this 24 hour system. Count me in! Please let me hear from others who are in my predicament.

  1091. M Stine on August 18th, 2011 1:53 pm

    Hello there!

    I am a doctoral student at NYU doing some research on franchises and how/why they fail. I am interested in this posting and in the Curves International story as Curves is often hailed is one of the most successful models of franchising that are out there.

    I have some questions for some current and/or former Curves franchise owners. Your responses will greatly help direct my research so are very much appreciated!

    My preliminary questions are:

    a) What is the main reason that you felt like your franchise was not sustainable? Was it competition from other companies? Was it the exitstence of too many Curves franchises? Was it the rent prices/employee prices?

    b) Curves seems to put forth the idea that these franchises can be very successful/profitable. Typical membership numbers are given as being around 600-700 members at any given time.

    -Did you find that you had an average of 600-700 members? If not, how many members did you average per month?

    -Did memberships tend to decline over time?

    -Despite being a well-known brand name, why do you think there were membership issues and what did Curves do about it?

    -What did you find to be your biggest expense?

    c) Curves also talks about empowering women franchisee owners–did you find this to be a valid claim? What support do they typically give to their franchisees?

  1092. JM on August 18th, 2011 4:11 pm

    In the case of the gym my friend owns…

    A:) The gym is failing due to local population not being able to sustain a gym. Gym membership is one of those things that is easy to cut out to reduce monthly expenses. Then when you are in a rural area there are only so many potential customers and eventually you have every single person that has a remote interest in joining. Curves can only work in specific areas where there are both “health minded” people, enough people to sustain a gym, and little or no local competitors near by.

    B:) Curves sales pitch is full of CRAP, in my case, her peak membership in the last year was 63 and she has months where she loses more members than she gains and others where she gains a couple.

    What did curves “DO” for her?
    They required her to take a “training seminar” that cost her $3000 and held it in a hotel that I am sure let them have it there for free, if not gave them kickbacks, in the middle of an industrial area with no restaurants or grocery stores, so after paying for the seminar, which was really just a big sales pitch to buy MORE CI crap and them telling you how awesome they are, you have to pay for a plane ticket, then you have to pay for the hotel, no other hotels nearby so you HAVE to rent a room THERE, then with no refrigerators or microwaves in the room, you HAVE to eat at the hotel restaurant with very high prices 3 meals a day or walk to a 7-11 6 blocks away.
    Once home, they tell you you HAVE to hold these silly little promotions like “princess parties” which you are required to participate in and have to buy decorations and supplies for and purchase and award prizes.
    They require you to pay “advertising fees” but that is only for your part of the national TV campaigns, having nothing to do with any print ads that actually apply to your area.
    They kill her with fees and required purchases, if she tells them she can’t afford to do it they point out that she is contractually bound to participate in any promotion they decide to throw out.

    They require you to use the Curvesmart computer system and pay for the system as well as a monthly fee to use it and if you need help you call a support center in INDIA where you sit on hold for no less than 45 mins and have never been able to actually solve one of her problems.

    There is an endless list of little BS things they “did” for her but overall, when she contacted them to ask how she could actually stay afloat, every scripted answer was related to advertising and promotions specific to a large suburban/urban area, they had no clue what to do to help a gym that was in a rural area.

    When she contacted them to ask about GIVING the gym away to one of her members who would keep it open and pay fees, they refused to waive or reduce any fees and told her if she closed she had to pay them a Closing Fee, AND the franchise fee for every month that she agreed to stay open. So they would rather see her close the gym and sue her for fees and penalties, than let her give the gym to someone that will keep the location open for another 5 years (not likely of course) and continue to pay the franchise fees. They don’t care, they expect her to go down in flames and debt and will stand there with their hands out asking for their payments as they watch.

  1093. JM on August 18th, 2011 4:15 pm

    I am trying to contact other owners that had to close down before their 5 year contract was up. If you are, or know someone that is in that group please drop me an email at muggzyx AT yahoo DOT com
    I won’t be a pest I am just looking for information on how aggressive CI really is with punishing people that couldn’t stay in business. My friend is a widowed mother of two halfway through paying off college for two daughters and she is broke and drowning in her club and doesn’t know which way to turn. Any input or help is much appreciated!

  1094. Karen on August 22nd, 2011 8:06 am

    Hello M.Stine

    I am an accountant and current MBA student. I owned many franchises. I am in court with CI so I will state only the facts and will leave the conclusions to you.

    a) What is the main reason that you felt like your franchise was not sustainable? Was it competition from other companies? Was it the exitstence of too many Curves franchises? Was it the rent prices/employee prices?

    The business model as it exists has a relatively short life cycle. Upon opening sales increased steadily for about 3 to 4 years and then fell off dramatically. This was especially true in areas where there were not enough people to cycle through. This cycle will vary in length depending on the population and was expedited with Curves opening too many franchises (in a town of 25,000 they opened two) The short life cycle was due to the fact that people got very bored of the circuit, they stopped getting results, people want variety in the industry.

    b) Curves seems to put forth the idea that these franchises can be very successful/profitable. Typical membership numbers are given as being around 600-700 members at any given time.

    -Did you find that you had an average of 600-700 members? If not, how many members did you average per month?
    At the top of the peak, this number was exceeded and fell back to 200.

    -Did memberships tend to decline over time? see above

    -Despite being a well-known brand name, why do you think there were membership issues and what did Curves do about it?

    -What did you find to be your biggest expense? Staff and rent . 92% fixed, 8% variable. Franchiseess made lots of money in the early years.

    c) Curves also talks about empowering women franchisee owners–did you find this to be a valid claim? What support do they typically give to their franchisees?
    Over 60% of the franchises in the US have closed. CI instituted a closing fee which most franchisees were unable to pay and then takes them to court for future royalties if they close without a mutual release.

    I would be happy to send you actual sales figures or any other data necessary for your paper.

  1095. Fit Dude on August 22nd, 2011 12:44 pm

    Interesting article today from the Wall Street Journal on Curves clubs closing: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303365804576432062058517684.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Heavin now says he is going to re-invent the Curves model (read- charge franchisees more money for another “miracle” product).

  1096. CurvesOwner2 on August 22nd, 2011 1:34 pm

    Interesting article today from the Wall Street Journal on Curves clubs closing: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303365804576432062058517684.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Heavin now says he is going to re-invent the Curves model (read- charge franchisees more money for another “miracle” product).

    Fit Dude,

    This article is upsetting. Especially this statement from Gary, The problems arose with resales by franchisees, he argues. “Resales often came as investors looking to get rich quick with a passive investment, when running a Curves is actually a very active investment.” While “we did our best to inform them” about the requirements of running a club, he says, “we were limited in what we could do to deny a resale.”

    I am a resale and I didn’t get into this business to get rich quick. I bought the business because I wanted to “strengthen women”. The previous owner of the clubs I purchased was selling because she was not making the money she was at one point in time, and business was declining because she was never in the facility. Those who purchased in the very beginning just opened the doors and the money rolled in. The previous owner of my clubs abused the women in our communities and ruined the reputation of Curves. Where was Curves International when the previous owner of my clubs was drafting women who cancelled? Now there are all these rules and guidelines that have to be followed when you sell your club. Where were these rules and guidelines when I purchased my locations? Gary can blame the closures on resales, and say they failed because many bought just to “get rich quick”, but the truth is these clubs have closed because the new owners didn’t have a chance. The clubs were being sold to resales at too high of a price, and Curves International set the guidelines. I would like to know, out of all the clubs that have closed, how many were resales? I assume many since Gary is always putting the blame on resale clubs.

    In regards to the allowing 24/7 Gary states, “Curves is about providing a supportive environment for women, and an empty room filled with machines in the night is not my idea of a supportive environment. Can you imagine the headlines when a member in the middle of the night in a women’s-only gym is hurt or has a heart attack and there is nobody there? Our brand would be ruined in one instant.”

    This is ridiculous. No one would blame the facility if something like this happened. Gary not allowing 24/7 shows how little he really knows about women, and how little he cares about the success of our facilities. Curves hours may work for Diane, but most women do not have a husband who pays all the bills. The reality is, women need to be able to work out when they can fit it in.

  1097. disillusioned on August 22nd, 2011 4:19 pm

    Has anyone refused to destroy equipment. i really would like to donate to a non profit Curves wont let me do they really go after you

  1098. Justine curver on August 22nd, 2011 5:21 pm

    I did not destroy my equipment. My contract, written in early 2002, states that if the contract is ended before the ten years, for whatever reason, Curves has first right of refusal to buy my equipment from me. And there is a schedule of how much they would have to pay. For instance, if the contract ended after 2 years, they have to pay me $1500 for the circuit if they want it, otherwise I can do what I want with it. Look up your contract and read it. It might be different than mine, but you won’t know until you read it all. I just quoted the section of my contract to them and they left me alone. They did file a judgement against me, for closing early, but I hired a lawyer to deal with that (my state law on franchises supercedes their contract). Good luck.

  1099. christina on August 22nd, 2011 8:47 pm

    @JUSTINE, how exactly did ci bring judgement against you? certified mail, sheriff knocking on door to serve papers? and yes, many of the states have a state law that supercedes their contract, god knows why they even bother filing judgement…although i have been told they do that only b/c in order for ci to write it off as a loss at the end of the year , they must first file judgement. ci can suck a fat…

  1100. christina on August 22nd, 2011 9:04 pm

    @Fit Dude~ thank you for sharing the above article. in fact, Gary lied in telling the reporter that ci screens owners before selling them yet another one…interesting. he can keep talking while we all keep walking..

  1101. Guest on August 22nd, 2011 9:06 pm

    Last year in the WSJ they were “pruning the vine” now it is the economy and passive investors. What a crock. Heavin is a LIAR. Curves owners “made too much money” and they were “the victims of their own success”. HA.

  1102. JM on August 23rd, 2011 3:52 pm

    Actually it would be easier to get rid of the club if Curves didn’t screen, she has had two interested parties willing to take it over and CI has said they could not take it over after running income/credit checks on the prospective buys. Again, by their actions they show that they would RATHER watch a club go down in flames and get a judgement against the failed owner than actually do anything to HELP.

  1103. Justine Curver on August 23rd, 2011 5:11 pm

    @Christina
    Yes, I received legal papers by mail, telling me the judgement was filed in default (I didn’t show up). I gave them to my lawyer. I also wound up filing Ch. 7 bankruptcy. Yes, I believe they do it just so they can have a write-off. It’s a shame isn’t it.

  1104. Sadderbutwiser on August 23rd, 2011 6:18 pm

    Curves has now lost more than 50 percent of its franchises, with more closing every day. I think we can agree they obviously oversaturated the market. They should never have offered more than 4,000 franchises.

  1105. JM on August 23rd, 2011 6:19 pm

    Wow, I know of a club that is making about $200/mo that is being sold for .25.

  1106. Sadderbutwiser on August 23rd, 2011 7:26 pm

    You no longer list Curves? Why not?

  1107. chris on August 24th, 2011 2:37 pm

    is anybody familiar with the PA state law on franchises?

  1108. km on September 3rd, 2011 6:43 am

    Can anyone in Florida suggest a lawyer half decient. I just got my letter from an attorney Avis in Illinois for collection of debt.

  1109. guest on September 3rd, 2011 9:23 am

    No attorney needed yet. You have 30 days to dispute the debt. Send a certified letter disputing the validity of the debt. You might Google fair debt collection act. Read it. Learn it. Did you buy directly from the seller?

  1110. km on September 5th, 2011 9:54 am

    Guest:
    Yes, I bought from a seller.

  1111. christina on September 7th, 2011 12:35 pm

    ANYONE KNOW THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE LAW ON FRANCHISES????

  1112. christina on September 7th, 2011 2:04 pm

    @JUSTINE, I see that you mentioned above that your state law supecedes the franchise contract…what state do you reside? CI put a $40,000 mark on my credit report, and i am unaware of the state law in Pennsylvania.

  1113. km on September 19th, 2011 5:42 pm

    Is that the state law that supercedes, State Law on Franchises? Or is there some other state law?

  1114. Drained on September 24th, 2011 3:59 pm

    I closed almost a year ago in October of 2010….I moved on with my life. I got a job. My husband and I have worked very hard to try to get things back in order financially for us. We recently tried to finance some home improvement …. only to find out that just this month CI put two $10,700 marks on our credit report….where in the hell does this come from and how do they figure that? We only closed 6 months before our franchise agreement was done. Also, in response to the oversaturation of the market and the latest artcle being talked about. Our problem was not only the demands of CI but the fact that the people we bought our curves from that opened it from the beginning hay days and made enough to pay it off and buy and start many more….sold it to us for way more than it was ever worth. Yes we reserched, based on the information they provided to us, they told us the lowest they ever made in one year was 60,000 profit. I Never made a profit, ever! Was I a money hungry investor…uh, NO….I paid out alot and never made a profit period! We paid 150,000 for our club. I actually at one time offered 250,000 for a club the owner was asking 350,000 and she declined my offer. What are these resale sellers thinking….they too are the CROOKS in this scandal. That club sold in less that a year for less than 100,000, they are struggling too. I am at my wits end with this. It has caused so much trauma to our financial future, our happiness, our health. I really don’t know why I logged back on to see what was going on on this website, it all depresses me to no end! Good luck to everyone….at least we have each other to cry to!

  1115. Fit Dude on September 26th, 2011 4:17 pm

    Looks like we are not alone here in the US and Canada. Curves clubs are closing all over the world- here’s an article from Africa: http://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/consumer/be-wary-of-long-term-gym-deals-1.1144964

  1116. CurvesOwner2 on September 26th, 2011 4:48 pm

    Drained,

    You’re in my thoughts!

  1117. CurvesOwner2 on September 26th, 2011 5:07 pm

    If you close your facility after your franchise agreement ends, what happens? Does Curves International have the right to anything within your facility if you are no longer under contract?

  1118. Fit Dude on September 28th, 2011 3:29 pm

    Interesting article on Curves on Club Industry.com; one of the fitness industry’s leading online news sites: http://blog.clubindustry.com/fitnessbusinessproblog/2011/09/28/examining-the-state-of-curves/?cid=nl_nb.

    Curves President Mike Raymond is quoted as saying “While it’s true a number of clubs have closed in the U.S., many did so after enjoying a very successful return on their investment. We made it easy for them to decide to leave by announcing a policy that removed any penalties for closing.” This is news to me! Has anyone gotten out of their franchise penalty free??

  1119. Karen on September 29th, 2011 10:53 am

    Drained, please contact the credit bureau and demand that it be reomoved, tell them that you owe CI nothing and that you want the debt substantiated and that if you do not want to see another mark on your credit report until they have a judgement from CI to prove you.

  1120. Karen on September 29th, 2011 10:55 am

    curvesowner2: CI will make all sorts of outrageous requests that are not backed up by common or contract law. Read expiration claused of you contract, what do they say. That is all they can demand.

  1121. Curves Owner2 on September 29th, 2011 2:18 pm

    Fit Dude,

    Thank you for sharing the story at clubindustry.com, “Examining the State of Curves”, Stuart Goldman September 28th, 2011.

    My response is, “Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah…”

  1122. CurvesOwner2 on September 29th, 2011 8:45 pm

    Thank you Karen!!

  1123. Thinking on September 30th, 2011 12:05 pm

    I am thinking about buying a curves in a large metro area this is only one of two which has been in operation for 8 years. The club has 400 members. The area is perfect and the price may be around 78k

    I have seen all of the returns and it seems viable. I also had my CPA review the documents. If the business makes money are there reasons I shouldn’t go forward?

    I have reviewed the postings but the majority seem like revenue issues and fees to curves
    Thanks

  1124. Thinking on September 30th, 2011 12:06 pm

    Please comment also if you can on the law suits

  1125. Thinking on September 30th, 2011 12:08 pm

    Also did anyone form an LLC or an s Corp to buy their franchise to personally protect themselves?

  1126. CurvesOwner2 on September 30th, 2011 2:05 pm

    Thinking,

    Ask the owner to meet with you, and have her call the members on the “Members Not Working Out Report”, so you can see why they are not working out and if they plan on continuing with their membership or cancelling. If the current owner will give you the names and phone numbers, then you should call these members.

    This is our story…

    http://www.franchisepublicity.com/curves-franchise-resale-buyer-cries-fraud/

    Best Wishes!

  1127. ADMIN on October 5th, 2011 1:17 pm

    We are considering offering an inexpensive ad service for franchisees interested in selling their locations. The ads would appear on this site and also several other sites.

    While it may seem odd to advertise on a site with so many negative comments, there is a market for franchise resales perceived as priced to sell, and we generate a lot of traffic from those interested in fitness franchises. We are interested in helping those who want out to move on.

    If you are interested in advertising or willing to provide feedback on the idea, please email unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com.

  1128. CurvesOwner2 on October 5th, 2011 4:50 pm

    Admin,

    Thank you for your offer, but how can we feel right about selling our facilities, knowing that whomever buys them will have to deal with what we are dealing with?

    If we sell our clubs, whomever buys them is put in a bad situation, because if things do not get better and they have to close, then they have to pay Curves International all the fees for every month still left on the franchise agreement. I e-mailed someone at legal and asked them what would be owed if a franchisee was to close before they completed the franchise agreement, and they said, “They would owe the maximum for every month remaining on the franchise agreement.”

    I said, “So Curves International is no longer making exceptions?” and I shared this article with them.

    Examining the State of Curves, Stuart Goldman September 28th, 2011

    http://blog.clubindustry.com/fitnessbusinessproblog/2011/09/28/examining-the-state-of-curves/

    Curves President Mike Raymond responded to our request seeking comment about the closures in Lakeland. Raymond’s response from July also could apply to today.

    “Curves has thousands of franchisees that do things the Curves way and are very successful—all around the world,” Raymond said in a statement. “While it’s true a number of clubs have closed in the U.S., many did so after enjoying a very successful return on their investment. We made it easy for them to decide to leave by announcing a policy that removed any penalties for closing. Even with the club closures, Curves is still the largest fitness franchise in the world.”

    The response I received was, “There have always been penalties for closing before the franchise agreement has been completed. I do not know the source of that information but I would not consider it reliable.”

    If we sell our facilities, knowing that we might be putting someone in a bad situation, then we are not any better then Gary Heavin and all his followers.

    which is do much to support its franchises if anything at all. Just my opinion of course.

  1129. CurvesOwner2 on October 5th, 2011 4:51 pm

    Ignore the bottom line! Typo

  1130. Former Franchisee on October 5th, 2011 9:43 pm

    CurvesOwner2, thank you for sharing your response from Curves legal stating, “There have always been penalties for closing…I don’t know the source of that information, but I would not consider it reliable.”

    I asked ClubIndustry.com to comment on that statement from Curves legal. Here is their response:

    Stuart Goldman Says:

    October 5th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Curves provided us with a statement that included the following two sentences:

    While it’s true a number of clubs have closed in the U.S., many did so after enjoying a very successful return on their investment. We made it easy for them to decide to leave by announcing a policy that removed any penalties for closing.

    A spokesperson for Curves has seen this post and did not have an issue with this statement. –Stuart Goldman

    CurvesOwner2, please inform Curves legal of this response and ask for clarification!

  1131. Guest 2 on October 6th, 2011 12:06 pm

    Admin is right. Someone may interested in priced to sell. but only if it’s true Curves will not require the royalty on a failed club.

  1132. CurvesOwner2 on October 6th, 2011 12:32 pm

    Hello Former Franchisee,

    Thank you for your response!

    I would ask for clarification, but what difference would it make? They deny everything and you cannot argue with people that think they are right about everything. Stuart Goldman should clarify the statement and print an article about it again for all the clubs that want to close, but are unable because they will owe all this money. This is a huge story. I feel really bad for the new owners who are being manipulated into buying a facility, and Curves International is promising they will provide support but they do not. I read a post awhile back that said something about Curves International restructuring everything so they would not need the facilities anymore, and I am thinking this person may be right. Things are getting worse for franchisees and better for Curves International. We cannot get the products we need from Curves Products. If we want something we have to buy it at shopcurves.com, or have the member buy it there. It’s disgusting. Gary is worth millions because franchisees sacrifice everything for their clubs. They work other jobs to keep the facilities open, and Gary continues to make his Royalty and Advertising Fees which is why he is wealthy.

    Just curious. Is there an active class action lawsuits against Curves International, or has everything been settled?

  1133. Jo on October 19th, 2011 7:29 pm

    Hi, I live in northern n.s.w in Australia and I have a very close friend whos interested in buying a curves. She has been a member for almost a year and absolutely loves the whole concept. After reading through all your posts I’m scared that she’s going to make a big mistake and although it’s defintely causing her to start looking at things more closely she’s not being put off the whole idea due to most of your stories are from people who live in america. So I was wondering if there are any franchise owners that live in australia who are going through similar problems? She already has a fairly successful business in beauty therapy and would be looking to move that business into the curves building and though it will be classed as a seperate business would that be ok? This gym has been opened going on 7 years nowand has about 320 members in a city thats population is around 38,000 as well as offering it as a school sport to the local high schools (ones joined there are 5 more in the local area to approach). There is one other womens gym that offers a 30min workout, one thats about to open offering 24/7 hours and several other fitness and aquatic centre’s. Whats scareing me the most is that in the last 3 years profits have dropped about 40%. This woman is very motivated, willing to put in the hard work and has good friends who are also willing to put the time and effort into helping her succeed without any financial gain. She has lots of idea’s (offering a daycare for a few hours a day 3 times a week, improving the music, improving the morale and ambiance, adding a celulite treatment business to her own beauty shop, opening a juice bar, offering dance classes, etc) to turn it around and with her attitude and personality I do believe she can do it. Though the question is What are the restrictions on curves franchisee’s, are any of these things allowed? Because if not I don’t know how she would be able to. I do know a big problem with some members leaving was due to the old owner. I’ve read through some of your stories and I am so very sorry for what you’ve had to go through and I don’t want my best friend to have to go through that, but she needs more localised stories to see the proof. Is there a chance for this to work? This would be a dream come true for her I just don’t want it to become a nightmare. Any help you all could offer would be great. Thank You.

  1134. FitDude on October 20th, 2011 12:06 pm

    Jo;
    You are a good friend to be concerned about your friend getting involved with Curves. First, she should insist on seeing the bank statements and members list to confirm that there are indeed 320 active members. (See http://www.franchisepublicity.com/curves-franchise-resale-buyer-cries-fraud/)

    She will technically be in violation of her franchise agreement if she offers services and businesses such as daycare, beauty shop, juice bar, etc. within her club without getting approval first from the corporate office (good luck with that!). If she goes ahead and adds these services without approval and CI finds out, they will send her a demand letter to stop.

    It sounds like there is going to be a lot of competition for her with an existing women’s club and a 24 hour club coming in. Some 24/7 clubs like Snap Fitness are adding women-only rooms with hydraulic equipment.

    You will be doing your friend a huge favor if you discourage her from getting involved with Curves!

  1135. JM on October 20th, 2011 3:27 pm

    Just an update on our situation.
    Zumba attendance has dropped off so much that it costs almost TWICE what she makes off the “$2 voluntary fee” just to get the instructor to show up, and that doesn’t cost the hour of “drive time” the instructor charges since there are none close enough to be convenient.

    Her client list has continued to drop with a rare new member and she has even cut “unauthorized discounts” to get people in the door. There simply is not a customer demographic base in the area anymore to support the business.

    She even found one lady that wanted to take it over, she was willing to pay for the new lady’s training fees and curves camp etc, and then CI turned her down because her husband was the only person working and they had no assets.

    Her father and mother have both become ill and need lots of help so she is having to pay people to sit at the club and keep it open and so she is losing even more money every day.

    At this point she is trying to determine if it is cheaper to just pay the fees and walk away, or hire a lawyer to fight it/draw it out long enough for curves to go under, it’s gotta happen eventually right??

  1136. tamvo on October 26th, 2011 8:35 pm

    A partner and I purchased a club almost 10 years ago (franchise agreement ends jan 2012). My husband has a disablitiy and we were counting on the business to support our family as our needs changed over time. I opened the club because I worked at one previously and loved the changes in the women and I new that I always wanted to make a difference in someone’s life and Curves seemed to be the perfect opportunity to do just that. I wasn’t looking to become a millionaire but I was looking for something that would provide for my family so that my husband would no longer have to work or could pursue other avenues of work that would be better suited to a person with his disability. The first 3 years were great but my husband did have to continue to work as my partner and I split the profits. It worked out that I was making a decent wage. It came time to move our facility as our lease was up so we moved to a larger location with a bigger lease, thinking that we would continue on with our large (600) member base for the duration of our 10 years with Curves. This was not meant to be. A year after our move, the membership started to drop off but we continued to have high hopes that we could make it work. This was not to be the case. The new owner of the building did not want to renegotiate the lease even after he knew that our membership was dropping so we were left paying a huge lease and continuing to cut our costs as much as possible. In the town that we are in, finding something suitable to move to is a challenge but something did come up and in January 2011 we moved to a higher profile location hoping that membership would increase but the opposite has happened. It was actually too little too late and by the time we got to our new location the debts were too high and by this time we have poured everything we had financially into the business. There is nothing left. We are behind in our rent, I had to do a personal proposal for all the debt that was racked up so my credit is crap, I had to take a full time job outside Curves to pay Curves bills and household bills as my husband lost his job. Our house is up for sale. The biggest disappointment is that we are only 3 months away from the end of our contract and we have no money left to carry us through to the end so we contacted our Area Director and she said that she would ‘fast track’ our case and seeing as how there are only a few months left on the contract, they ‘may’ approve the closing of the club. Apparently we will have to dismantle the original 8 pieces of equipment as we cannot sell it because it technically does not belong to us. I am wondering how 10 year old equipment is going to hurt any other Curves out there. My staff member would love to buy the equipment and this would certainly help with some debt. I would like to know if anyone else has done this. Also, I am in no position to pay closing fees as we have no where to get the money from. How can they charge closing fees when we are so close to the end of the contract? This has been the most difficult thing I have ever gone through. I have always had hope that things would turn around, I did things by the book and followed protocol but everytime you turned around there was more money going out and less and less coming in. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out where this is going. The hardest part of it all is no longer being able to help all of those women who are so faithful to Curves and to our business. I still believe in the concept of 30 minute fitness for women because it does work but there needs to be forward thinking and moving on with the times and there needs to be more focus on running a business and not just selling a membership. I am hoping for the best with our closure and because I am a hopeful person, I am hoping that there will be no extra fees associated with our closure. One can only hope.

  1137. justine curver on October 26th, 2011 11:42 pm

    Tamvo!
    You indicate you signed your franchisee agreement in 2002. I bet you own your equipment. You must go thru your agreement with a sharp eye. I cannot remember the section, but there is one that pertains to the “disposition” of the equipment in case the agreement is ended before the time is up.It clearly states, that regardless of how the agreement is ended (and they use a different term instead of “ended”) Curves International has first right of refusal! And there is a schedule. In my franchise agreement (contract), it clearly stated that if it ended within the first year, they (CI) would have to pay me $17,999 for the equipment (or let me do whatever I wanted with it). If it ended in the second year, they’d have to pay me $15,999 (or let me do whatever I wanted with it), etc, etc. From year 5 to 10, if the agreement was interrrupted (ended, whatever), they could exercise their first right of refusal by paying me $2000. Since they opted not to do that, they can’t tell me what to do with my equipment… Except where in my choices could be limited by the Covenant not to Compete. Read it! And, or, get a paralegal to look at it with you. A paralegal is much cheaper than a lawyer and can help you decipher any legal terms that you are not familiar with.
    BEST WISHES.

  1138. tamvo on October 27th, 2011 12:12 pm

    Thanks so much, Justine! Before finding this site I thought there was no hope but now I feel supported and feel stronger going forward knowing that I will not be strong armed. I am going over my agreement with a fine tooth comb. Thanks again for the support!

  1139. Lucious on November 4th, 2011 8:36 am

    What does everyone think about the news that Mike Raymond is stepping down as President of CI? is that a good thing or not? is this a sign that Curves is folding?

    Was thinking about buying a franchise but after finding this site and speaking to a friend who owns a club I have think I have had a lucky escape.

  1140. JM on November 4th, 2011 1:38 pm

    Something I just found out, that CAN protect club owners personal assets..

    If you made the mistake of purchasing the club and signing the contract as a personal/private owner, this connects the club to your personal assets and credit etc. However, you go create a S-Corp or LLC, easily done for a few hundred $ and usually done all online.
    Once you do that, CI has a process you can go through, and pay a fee (of COURSE), to change the club over to your new LLC/S-Corp ownership. Once that is done, if you start to go upside down, you can do what you have to do and legally they can only go after the LLC and any assets owned by THAT, NOT YOUR PERSONAL ASSETS.
    If you then have to file bankruptcy as the LLC, it closes your club and ands teh LLC as an identity and you and your finances and credit rating are all left untouched. All this will still cost a few thousand $ but when CI is threatening to put a $20K entry on your credit report or sue you for $40k in franchise fees and ad dues, it is still cheaper and allows people that are in a bad spot to walk away and get on with their lives.

    Of course laws in your area may vary but we discovered we can do this as a last resort if CI will not let her sell the club to someone that actually wants it.

  1141. guest on November 4th, 2011 2:26 pm

    wrong! Curves makes you sign a personal guaranty for the franchise agreement. The s corp or llc will only protect you against outside creditors not CI.

  1142. JM on November 7th, 2011 3:41 pm

    Well crap, so why will they let you pay a fee ($1000+) to change from a sole proprietor to a corporate holding? That blows if that is the case, I guess we need to hope that the right sucker comes along that ALSO has good credit.

  1143. JM on November 7th, 2011 6:18 pm

    I have read on here about some owners discovering that their local state’s business laws over rode the Curves “contract” and that allowed them to get out of it without getting sued for $$$.
    I was wondering if anyone still monitoring this post knew what parts of the contract I should look into? Like what portion of the agreement is likely the [part that states differ on?

    As in, requiring an owner to stay open 5 years regardless of viability or having no right to know where the3 advertising fees go to?

  1144. CurvesOwner2 on November 10th, 2011 5:34 pm

    Don’t we have a right to know where the advertising dollars are going?

    If Curves International isn’t advertising and presenting Curves in a positive light, all our efforts are worthless.

  1145. red on November 12th, 2011 11:32 am

    We owned 2 franchises. We closed 1,sold some of the equipment, used some if it in the other club and scrapped the rest. Our territory was expanded and includes the “closed area”, they were adjacent to each other. We have also rewritten our FA and changed our fees to the minimum. We are looking to sell because I have Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma and cannot work. Overall we have been disappointed but we do believe in helping our members. We know many of them would never have joined an exercise facility if not for Curves.

  1146. justine curver on November 14th, 2011 3:07 am

    JM, re the laws of your state: it’s not what is written in the Curves Franchise Agreement (CFA), it’s what’s written in your state code. Either contact a lawyer, contact a paralegal, or go to your closest law library (for instance at a state university that has a law school) and ask them to direct you to the legal code about franchise agreements.
    and that also pertains to the LLC and whether or not it is viable for your protection. visit a lawyer if you have any doubts.

  1147. JM on November 15th, 2011 3:45 pm

    when looking for a lawyer for this stuff, what type of “specialty” should I look for when browsing the yellow page ads?

  1148. Justine Curver on November 16th, 2011 4:27 am

    that is really a good question. sometimes figuring out how to start doing something is challenging enough to really put one “off” the task!
    basically you want someone who is familiar with franchise contracts. it might be someone who advertises that they help people set up new businesses? are there still yellow pages around?
    also, depending on your state’s laws, a paralegal could get you the information… again that varies depending on state law.
    best wishes!

  1149. Free again on November 17th, 2011 4:23 am

    Dear all,

    I am an ex-curves owner. We bought a re-sale club in 2007. The Master Franchisor in my country told us that we do not need any licenses registerd as gym since it’s a health club. However the laws in my country are different. In 2010 we went to court because the Sports Organisation of my country accused as of illegal operation. When we told that to the Master Franchisor she told us that this is our problem and we had to sort it out. IN the end we got a fine and because we could get the license we had to close the club. We wanted to sue them but we need at least 4.000 euro. I was wondering if any of you who closed the clubs have sold the machines/equipment because we want to get rid of them…
    Thanks and be strong..

  1150. Amanda on November 18th, 2011 4:59 pm

    I’m in the process of becoming an ex-owner. My 10 yr agreement will be fulfilled Jan.2 /12, and if Curves International thinks they’ll get one more penny out of me they are sadly mistaken!
    Not only has CI allowed another club to open within my territory, it cost me over $7000 to have a lawyer do it. They(CI) would NOT do anything for me until we had to take legal action. They claimed that they never gave permission to the club moving into my area. How is that possible when you have to be approved for EVERYTHING!!!!
    This franchise has completely ruined my life financially, and put me and my new husand in a tough financial position. It’s almost impossible for us to start a family now!
    I can’t wait to have no involvementwith such a terrible company, and will voice my opinion to anyone who asks about Curves. I really hope that Gary Heavin hits rock bottom…again!

  1151. Chelsea Clark on November 19th, 2011 12:27 pm

    Amanda,
    I agree, I hope Howie gets what he deserves.
    Just move on and put it behind you, Curves it not worth it…….
    You will see life will be good again for you, just hang in there.
    Good Luck for the future.
    CC

  1152. red on November 20th, 2011 9:28 am

    Looking to sell a very nice club in Florida. We are seasonal, but do very well in winter with all of our “Snowbirds” We have a 5 year agreement and pay the minimum for fees. We would like to sell fro Apx $50,000. I think new clubs go for about 40,000. We have double of 3 machines, but no Smart equipment.

  1153. red on November 20th, 2011 9:32 am

    Please check everything with your state laws. They are very different from state to state. We have an llc, we set everthing up through a lawyer. Check things out yourself.

  1154. CurvesOwner2 on November 21st, 2011 12:00 pm

    Red,

    Are people actually buying new clubs from Curves International?

    Good luck selling your club!

  1155. SHobbs on December 12th, 2011 12:41 pm

    Just went to CA on business, all THREE of the clubs I used to use are gone. My local club in DE is closing the 31st. At one point, CI allowed four clubs to open in an area that could just barely support one. Now the last one is closing. We had a great group that I will miss. CI seems to have done just about everything they can to kill the golden goose.

  1156. JM on December 13th, 2011 12:05 pm

    Screwed by CI AGAIN!

    We had a interested buyer, or rather someone that would take the club for FREE, with us actually PAYING all the reg and training fees for that matter.
    The new prospective owner tried for FIVE WEEKS to call or email CI to ask some questions and get copies of some paperwork.
    After 2 weeks of calling their corporate office every other day, and having to leave voice mail, they got a call back from some file clerk telling them that they do not accept telephone calls!?!? They were directed to contact CI via E-Mail only.
    They then sent numerous emails over the following THREE WEEKS, explicitly stating they were trying to buy a franchise but wanted to get some questions answered and a copy of the Franchise Contract for review.
    They never got a single reply! They came into the gym and told her (my fiance) that they have to back out because their lawyer advised them that “if this is how they work when you are trying to give them money, you don’t want to be bound to them in a 5 year contract”.

    She is down to 39 members now….. THIRTY NINE PAYING MEMBERS!

    Calls to regional rep are not responded to anymore, she has no idea if she even HAS a regional rep at this point.

    Calls and emails to CI asking for advice or requesting a callback from someone that can discuss negotiating a potential reduction in franchise/ad fees are ignored.

    Her lease is paid forward to June of this year and at that point she will be forced to lock the doors and close down because she simply does not have enough members to pay the rent let alone all the fees.

  1157. Guest 2 on December 13th, 2011 2:48 pm

    My local club just closed. It was listed for sale at about $70,000. If a buyer had taken it , wonder what the outcome would’ve been.

  1158. CurvesOwner2 on December 16th, 2011 2:23 pm

    Curves International should answer this question. Not probable.

  1159. Fran Renk on December 30th, 2011 4:02 pm

    After 10 years we closed our franchise with Curves. Curves fitness program does work. I am speaking of circuit part of curves but not the diet. Our town had a program based on the Biggest Loser show. Three out of four years our ladies won first place and I always saw a number of ladies consistently place in the top ten. Like any exercise program discipline is crucial to success. There is only one other gym in town.

    After the honeymoon period and hype we settle down to a club with memberships running between 200-250. This was enough to meet our budget
    and pay bills. This year economy hit us and I used up the money in savings and
    also borrowed on house to meet contractual obligations.

    I chose not to resign a five year contract as they are much more restrictive than the contract 10 years ago and do not really believe that we are out of the recession contrary to what the media would have us believe.

    Curves International does have problems. If they do not look at helping the franchisee rather than to keep on taking from them for every little service they offer
    with narrow profit margins franchisee’s will continue to go under.

    Diane’s magazine is going online however in the place where we were in business that will not work as a lot of the area is on dial up still. Also they will charge for this service to the women. I was never sure whether or not to charge for this magazine or not as Curves would change their mind on it. I offered it as a service.

    If Curves is going to take away magazines and I know some clubs sold them at minimal cost then why not have a percentage go back to the individual clubs for the members that buy them.

    Why not allow the circuit with other things added such as tread mills. I was probably only one of the few allowed to have an extra side line to my business but was told it would not transfer with the new franchise agreement, This did not help in trying to sell the business as I then had to explain how Curves has absolute control and you are not allowed to do anything without their permission. I also talked about what your contractual obligations are to Curves and what would happen if it failed. This was in front of a group of potential investors. Needless to say, nobody was willing to buy Curves.

    I think years ago Curves was needed to get the circuit off to a great start. Today I do not feel that it is needed as circuit training is well established and Curves will be more of a hindrance then help in keeping a business going if they keep going on their present course.

    They also need to know what contract you have signed. The closing orders fit on some things but not on others. I consulted a lawyer on the closing demand in regards to who owns the machines. What they are demanding is stated in a 2006 contract and not a 10 year old contract. Know your contract.

    Signed,
    Another Closed Franchisee

  1160. JM on December 30th, 2011 4:53 pm

    Well She/We are done…

    The membership has dropped below 30! The local economy is just too poor to support a “luxury” like a gym membership, and at $30/mo or so, that’s pretty sad.

    The attendance is so poor that she often gets one person through the door in a 5.5hour shift but she still hops up and gives them the full 1 on 1 treatment and smiles while she does it.

    She got an email from the owner of TWO Seattle area Curves that just closed trying desperately to find a buyer for two gyms worth of equipment. So she has little hope of finding a buyer for hers. Wasn’t CI supposedly supposed to buy used equipment back if it was in good condition?

    BTW CI still has the gall to send her promotional packets to try to convince her to buy the new software for their weight loss supplement system and get her to pay for the training in order to be ALLOWED to carry and sell it. It’s kind of salt in the wound at this point.

    The other night, after getting an advertising email about the CI apparel she pointed out that she hasn’t sold a single shirt or other apparel item in 4 months because CI is direct marketing to her customers via email and selling the same items to them from the same retail site that she has to buy from. On top of that, the end customers can but things that are “exclusive” on the curves website that she can’t even buy to stock in her gym if she thought they might sell!

    So she is drafting a letter and telling the last couple dozen members that she is closing and she just has to pray that CI won’t sue a unemployed widow with two kids in college. (literally)

  1161. ADMIN on January 1st, 2012 1:52 pm

    Happy New Year, everyone.

    FYI Curves ranked high in the December, 2011 UNHAPPY FRANCHISEE 25 ranking both in terms of readership and comments.

    Congratulations, and thanks for commenting. Here’s to a happier 2012!

    See December’s rankings here:
    UNHAPPY FRANCHISEE 25 – December 2011

  1162. Patricia Walsh on January 16th, 2012 3:23 pm

    I feel that I had been taken advantage of from Linda Andrea’s the previous owner and then for Curves International not to stand by me and help me. Needless to say I have not seen a Television Camercial on the tv for 6 months then the other day I seen one. What do we pay all of those fees for? I am sure that advertising fees, Francies Fees, and Royalties are for that where are the television camercials? WERE? I brought a Curves from Linda Andrea on July 17, 2007 she hide the fact of the real membership amount. She left 54 people on the books when in fact that amount was less then what it was. She also knew at the time that she needed to make a change and that change should have been to close that location and move the current members/memberships to her location in Niagara Falls McLeod location. She is money gready. I lost the location because I couldn’t pay my fees and Curves International closed me down because I couldn’t pay because of lack of membership. This being said Curves International incoursages owner to sell. Saying that it would be better for the Curves Club if it were sold and that way it could be better managed. This is crap. They all knew what was going on the town that I was in was out of jobs and more and more were closing up in the town of Fort Erie, ON Canada. This is a not where I should have ended up out of $150.000.00 I had also taken out a bank loan so that I could stay open and that only lasted until I was closed. Curves International told me that I had a month to close the Curves Club and as this was happening they also didn’t take anymore money from members leaving me unable to pay bills and or members back. But they told the members that were calling that they would have to address me if they wanted their money back because they weren’t responsible. Yet they cancelled my club and my memberships. How can I pay anyone back without money. No wonder people are upset with this type of action that is going on. It is a dame shame that they closed me and then the club in Welland, ON Canada closed 30 days after I didn’t this guy calling me asking me to buy his equiptment that he should get something out of it all. People are gready and if this isn’t enough the previous owner e-mails me looking for the equiptment. This women is nasty she wants it all and then some. I feel that I had been taken advantage of from Linda Andrea’s the previous owner and then for Curves International not to stand by me and help me. Needless to say I have not seen a Television Camercial on the tv for 6 months then the other day I seen one. What do we pay all of those fees for? I am sure that advertising fees, Francies Fees, and Royalties are for that where are the television camercials? WERE?

  1163. Nona on January 19th, 2012 12:59 am

    A Curves is closing in my area after 2yrs. She is willing to sell just the machines to me. I am simply an individual who would like it for my personal use. Will I be in trouble for doing this? Thanks so much, Nona

  1164. Nona on January 19th, 2012 1:03 am

    I meant to mention that the franchise owner has documentation that she has fully paid for the machines. She knows she will have to fight the battles with CI. I just want to be sure I will not end up with some reprocussions. Thanks, Nona

  1165. JM on January 19th, 2012 10:37 am

    Nope, YOU won’t get into any trouble. Any contracts are between her and curves so they may come after her over it but you have no commitments.

    On another note…
    My fiancee has now submitted her paperwork to CI to begin closing her gym. She still has 3 years left on her contract. CI, SO FAR, is being agreeable about the whole thing. However, they said that she has to either GIVE the equipment to another Curves, or have it scrapped, she cannot SELL it to anyone, even another Curves.

    Apparently they are making that a factor in the “closing agreement”, they still have not told her what her “closing fee” will be, nor whether or not they are planning on suing her but they basically said if she doesn’t agree to the part about giving her equipment away, they will not negotiate at all and they WILL get nasty.

    Her members are all very sad and have done nice things like initiate their own membership drive and even went and picketed the landlords office demanding he lower her rent. Of course they didn’t understand that the rent was the least of the concerns and really didn’t play a part in the end decision.

  1166. Patricia Walsh on January 19th, 2012 3:07 pm

    I was given 30 days to come up with the money. If I didn’t come up with the money I was shut down. I don’t know why they gave me anytime at all they stopped paying me anything and stop taking fees from members they closed me with no income at all I was basisly closed and pushed out without help. I also feel that if the TV commercials had been on TV like they should have been then I would have a better membership balance as it was I had less then 100 members to support me. I seen other commercial on the TV this morning this is 2 in 2 weeks not good when it comes down to it they just weren’t doing their part on promoting Curves for the owners to get the memberships needs for a business when you are paying fees for advertising then this should not be an issue as it is their buisness too and it is feeding them as well…They claim that they are christians then were is the support for their owners and why didn’t they come with the support that I needed when this was going down. Because they just don’t know that they are hurting the owners by not adverting like they promised or are they really just to ingnorant to admit they that they are making this mistake and are blind to the fact that they are hurting us by not support us.

  1167. Patricia Walsh on January 19th, 2012 4:10 pm

    Had CI advertised like in the agreement I would of had a bomming business and I would have been still in business to this day. I did more then my part with advertizing in my community in community papers, sending out flyers and by calling and contacting people and giving to the community with free memberships to over 100′s a year while promoting others business in the community. I feel cheated out by CI and there isn’t anything more then I could have done on my part. I did and I went above and beyond what I could do. I am now out of business and have lost my purpose,. That was my purpose and it was my life I worked at this business 14 hours a day everyday. If I wasn’t doing Curves I was thinking about Curves. I just don’t know what I am going to do without my business. I need my business back and I want to be back doing Curves.

  1168. CurvesOwner2 on January 19th, 2012 6:20 pm

    Patricia,

    I know you are feeling lost and frustrated. Please know that you are not the only one feeling this way. Many of us our devastated by what Curves International has done to our lives. They allowed clubs to be resold at a high price, but do not care because they only care about their wealth. They are greedy and wealthy at the expense of others. So many bad things have happened to good owners. We will be okay. I am sorry you are in a bad situation financially, because the previous owner sold you a worthless club and Curves International allowed this to happen. None of it makes sense. What documents did the previous owner provide when you decided to purchase? How was the purchase price established?

    I always remind myself that things could be worse, and what I am going through is nothing compared to what others are enduring. This provides perspective :)

    Best Wishes!

  1169. I was scammed on January 19th, 2012 7:07 pm

    Sorry to hear about your troubles with curves. I never been a member but I know it has a lot of dedication and hard work. I would contact marks & Klein law firm. They specialize in franchise fraud and they can help if you feel cheated. I once owned a franchise and was cheated. I hired marks & Klein and they helped me recover some money back after being cheated by a franchisor. I hope this helps…

  1170. Curves Owner on January 19th, 2012 8:50 pm

    Manage your own money and interests and investments and don’t count on anyone.

  1171. Patricia Walsh on January 20th, 2012 4:45 am

    I am upset about the fact that there seems to be no ergency on advertizements of CURVES for Women, if CURVES on the television and it isn’t at this point, this non-advertisements is what hurts the CURVES business. This is what is making it hard for CURVES for Women businessand the owners to staying in business, my brother said that he has never seen a advertizement on the television and he is right. CI is taking the money for advertizing and this money should have been doing it’s job and that was advertizing for the CURVES. this is a need that if it had been done then none of this would have happened to me and or to any other CURVES owner and it should be done like selling toys atToys Are Us at Christmas time. Agressively in order to ensure that all of the CURVES for Women businesses were and are busy and in all areas and all had/have members that can keep the businesses up and operational with full compasity of memberships for all CURVES.

  1172. CurvesOwner2 on January 21st, 2012 1:59 pm

    Patricia,

    I agree with you. Supposedly, Curves International isn’t using the advertising dollars for anything. The money is just sitting there. Why? Maybe for the day there are no clubs and Gary and Diane need some extra cash. Being a part of Curves really hurts us because the name is not viewed in a positive light. Jenny Craig and Weight Watchers advertise, but Curves doesn’t. Why? Gary and Diane ruin peoples lives, but that’s okay because they go to church and repent. God forgives all their sins. Does this make sense to anyone?

  1173. Patricia Walsh on January 22nd, 2012 1:56 am

    i AM NOT INTO BASHING CHRISTINS I WANT ANSWERS TO WHY THERE ISN’T ANY TELEVISION COMMERCIALS ON THE TELEVISION…..BASHING DOESN’T WORK I WANT ANSWERS TO THE ADVERTIZING FEES AND WHY THEY ARE NOT BEING USED TO THE BEST OF THE THAT CAN BE USED….THIS ISN’T A GOOD WAY TO CONDUCT BUSINESS….WE ALL LOSE WHEN THEY ARE NOT ADVERTIZING THE BEST WAY THAT CAN BE DONE.

  1174. CurvesOwner2 on January 22nd, 2012 12:34 pm

    Why isn’t there any commercials on television? Because they don’t care about you. They don’t care about any of us. Every decision they is for their benefit and we make the sacrifices. I am not Christian bashing, but we
    are a part of an organization that is being ran by people who claim to be Christian and they aren’t. These are the worst kind of people.

  1175. CurvesOwner2 on January 22nd, 2012 6:52 pm

    I noticed there were grammatical errors in my last post, so before Curves International reads it and thinks, “Just another owner who is an idiot”, I decided to correct the mistakes.

    Why are there not any commercials on television? Curves International does not care about you. They do not care about any of the franchisees. Every decision Curves International makes is for their benefit and we make all the sacrifices. I am not Christian bashing, but we are a part of an organization that is being ran by people who claim to be Christian and they are not. These are the worst kind of people.

  1176. Patricia Walsh on January 23rd, 2012 10:09 am

    Your comments are not needed about who they are and about weather or not they are up holding in society in the “Christian Realm” That is their choice and has nothing to do with business…..My concern is with the amount of “Advertizing that is not being met in order to run a franchise business and for it to be a great success”. I have and will not repeat myself about the why in which they live their personnal lives. My only concern is the “Advertizing and why this is not met on a daily basis and why it is not an issue or a concern even for the board of directors with CURVES International. I want any and all answers to why they have fail me as a business.

  1177. CurvesOwner2 on January 23rd, 2012 12:21 pm

    My comments have everything to do with what is going on within Curves International. Every decision you make for your club and your business effects the people around you. The business decisions you make should be based on good moral values. The business decisions Curves International makes should be based on good moral values. This is what people expect from a company that claims to “Strengthen Women”. When a corporation does not have good morals what do you expect? You cannot expect positve results. We’ve been dealing with this for years, and begging for changes but nothing changes. They do not care. What other explanation do you want?

  1178. JM on January 23rd, 2012 4:01 pm

    The reason they do not advertise is because the contract they made all the franchisees sign does not REQUIRE them to advertise, and they do not HAVE to prove what they are doing with those fees. They can nebulously state that the fees are “to promote brand recognition”, in reality, they are promoting THEIR brand, not YOU. Curves is a business that makes it’s money OFF YOU, not FOR you. Their entire business model is based off selling to their franchisees, just look at how they charge you huge fees for the “privilege” of carrying their various products.

    Do you really need $400 worth of training, plus another $200+ to license yet more software just to be able to purchase their weight loss shakes and then resell them at a minuscule margin, when they ALSO sell the identical product directly to your customers for LESS than you can sell it if you expect to turn a profit?

    Why do they force you to purchase their “Curves” branded clothing at retail, and then turn around and sell the identical products, and sometimes products that YOU cannot even buy, directly to the public themselves on their websites?

    Curves does not see you as a “partner”, you are simply a high margin customer with a CONTRACT to continue giving them money with no guarantee of any kind of return at ALL. In fact, you have LESS rights, than Jane Doe buying something directly from Curves on their website, doubt me? Try buying just ONE of something and then returning it when it doesn’t fit.

  1179. Moving On on January 23rd, 2012 10:28 pm

    In my humble opinion, Curves International’s lack of advertising is one of the smaller issues in the failure of Curves to thrive. There are so many other compounding factors that Curves International has done to bury their franchisees that advertising is just a small nail in the coffin. In my area at the time I owned, no amount of advertising would have revived my club to the point where it would have thrived (it never thrived, even before me). My club was a resale that should never have been resold – a fiscally-poor territory that was entirely too small to support a club. If Curves truly wanted to “prune” itself and stay strong, one step in the right direction would have been to stop the resale of non-thriving clubs instead of continuing to insist it had to be the owner’s fault the club wasn’t thriving and saying a new owner would make it happen. But that wouldn’t have gained them the money from a resale and another sucker to pay monthly fees until their funds were exhausted. That aside, allowing outrageous resale prices, allowing too many Curves in a given area, not staying competitive, knocking down owners who tried innovative means to keep their doors open, and generally giving the owners a very cold, icy shoulder and placing ALL blame directly in our laps were bigger factors than where they spent our hard-earned advertising fees (as well as many, many other things mentioned on this board over and over). And when the clubs started closing left and right, what did they do? Continue the same course as always – just do what they say and the system will work and if it doesn’t, well–it must be your fault. Oh, and just in case they didn’t get enough of your money, here’s the latest thing you can buy from CI – it’ll help, really – just trust them.

    Unfortunately, Curves was not holding up their end long before lack of advertising. I feel for you, have been in your shows where I felt CI did not do enough, but there is no satisfactory answer for you in regards to your advertising dollars (I doubt there ever will be). There is no long-term ownership any longer in a Curves franchise in my mind – there is just long-term financial stress and anxiety until you are able to put it behind you as best you can. I view my Curves ownership as the WORST mistake of my life, but also the BEST learning experience as well. I hope you find peace and do what you must to put this behind you.

  1180. Patricia Walsh on January 24th, 2012 9:38 am

    Thank you for sharing your information and how it happen to you. I can see clearer now and understand that yes I agree that this is a money grab. They grab our money and leave us when we need them the most. One would think that they would help out their franchie since we are the one bring in the income for them to survive in the business that they are in. But instead they turn their backs on us saying that if you cann’t do it then you have failed. Yes advertizing is one of the faults that they have for sure we all know this. But they also turn their backs on us instead of saying lets work on it in all areas and get you back on track. I worked 16 hours a day some days and still because of the small area the lack of businesses in the area and because of neighbouring commitition it became a battle. A battle that I still feel to this day could have been won have I had the help from all areas. After I brought the club the landlord came in and stated to me that he didn’t give me a chance. From that day on I felt that he was watching me go under. “He knew.” He knew that it was happening because he seen what the previous owner had and how it slowly lost it growth. I just couldn’t get it back once the area lost jobs. They also lost hope that they could pay for a membership. Sure some of the previous members came back but not enough to make it. I had less then when I opened and even then the owner lied to me about the amount of members that were in the club keeping members on the books that had left months before. She was and is quite the lier as well as not to mention a person who would have paid members to come to her club. She did this by selling them memberships at the old prices. Giving away t-shirts and so on. Not a nice place to do business. It is a good exercise retine but too much of a back stabing was going on.

  1181. tamvo on January 24th, 2012 6:10 pm

    It sure has been an interesting and disappointing ending to my Curves experience and looking back, I would certainly have done things quite differently. I always had hope that things would get better and kept putting money into a failing venture and for a while we would be holding our own but the writing is on the wall when your revenue no longer supports your business and by doing things the Curves Way, the business goes down fast.

    Being an original owner of a club for almost 10 years, it was hear breaking to finally have to declare bankruptcy with only 4 months left on my contract. There was simply no choice. I jeoporadized my family’s future on the hope that Curves would help. I jeoporadized my family’s future for my members (the ones that were left). In this process I learned that I am strong in the face of adversity.

    I learned a lot about business and what not to do. I learned that no matter what, you cannot have a business based solely on membership and you can not have a business that is not progressive in nature. The circuit works; this is a given; but after time, people need other things to keep them motivated and excited to keep at it. I trusted in Curves to do right by me as a franchisee but they only had their best interests at heart. In tying our hands to what we were able to offer in our clubs, they have inevitabley started on the path to their own demise.

    The fitness industry is ever changing and evolving and if you’re not with the times, you will go down. You cannot sustain a business based on membership only. Most places that make it do it by selling product at a margin that can be supported and not being undercut by the supplier helps as well. I am still dealing with the knowledge that my business failed but I am not as hard on myself as I was in the beginning when everything began to tank and I felt responsible for absolutely everything that happened.

    I do take responsibility for many things that I could have and should have done differently but there is also responsibility that has to come from the franchisor whereby they are there for you when you need them the most, not running the other way. We tried for 2 years to get help and guidance from Curves but to no avail, now no Curves in our area. This experience has taught me that if and when I do go into business again, I will have safety nets in place and I will NEVER COMPROMISE MY FAMILY’S FUTURE again. I wish all Curves owners the best of luck in making it.

  1182. Patricia Walsh on January 25th, 2012 8:09 am

    Thank you for sharing you knowledge and your story. If we all had insight none of us would have made any mistakes and still be in business today. But this not the given it is a give and take situation and it did more taking then giving that is for sure.

    At the interm when and after the month or so that I bought the business I noted the faults on the previous owers part and I said something to her via e-mail. she never ever replied to me nor has she even taken any of this blame for the failing of the business. She is still living on cloud 9 somewhere. She is a very unrealistic and a very selfish and egotistical person. She also thinks of no one but herself and this is a proven in the way that she treats others. She had another club in the area that she sold to someone in the area not even a year later and that club too went under. This women knows what she is doing in every area and in ever transaction she does.

    I also think and have thought about CI they should be behind us until we are back on top and not leave us…We are their business and for them to let us go out of business is a sad sad day for we know how much love we put into the soul of our business the endless hours days weeks months without vacation time ever. I never left to go on a cruise or a vacation of any kind. It was always business so that I would be a success. Now nothing not even a if we had of or if we do it this way.

    “NO television cemmercials.” This really upsets me to see and know the lack of advertizing that could have happened and isn’t happening for Curves business owners. This was our baby. This was suppose to there today yesterday and tomorrow. Now nothing this is so not right. It’s just not right and it is cruelty to us as business owners to be treated in such a way with no regard to survive because of the ingnorance of anothers. Their lack of knowledge has cost us. We were lead into it with support and then we were dropped like pancakes flat when we needed there support the most. With nothing but a load of bills that came from the business that we no longer have to go to everyday.

    This is so very sad when they wash their hands of the whole situation. They let down all of my members that I had and this was extreamly hard for me, but I didn’t have any choice at all.

  1183. Curves Owner on January 25th, 2012 2:08 pm

    I want to give all “Smart” owners a heads up. The success coaches are starting to fail. Depending on when you purchased your equipment, most warranties have expired. Re-purchase will cost $300.00 to $350.00 plus shipping.

    I say re-purchase because I had to send all parts to corporate in the arrangement we were forced into in order to close our other club before completion of our 10 year agreement. If we had closed a year prior, we would not have had any penalty.

    To add insult to injury, when we furst purchased, we were told that no one deciding at a later date to purchase would get any price break. Now they are selling re-furbished Smart circuits for $5000.00.

    I will be relieved, soon, when our existing club’s agreement is completed. However, it is distressing to spend so much right before closure.

  1184. CurvesOwner2 on January 25th, 2012 7:21 pm

    How long have ago did you purchase Curves Smart? Just want to know so we can get an idea of when we should expect ours to start falling apart.

  1185. curves owner on January 25th, 2012 8:37 pm

    We purchased Smart when it was first launched, 2007-2008. The warranty was 3 years. I should clarify that the $300.00 price is per Success Coach & Mytrak has a “sale” going on. $350.00 is CI’s price. This does not include shipping.
    Make sure you have gone thru all the test processes to make sure it is indeed the Success Coach and not another issue. Before purchasing, to check, switch out a Success Coach from another machine and see if it reads correctly.

  1186. PATRICIA WALSH on January 29th, 2012 10:14 am

    I had found that the Curves Smart needs the owners attention. If you let your staff look after it you are really subitoging yourself. Staff don’t have the passion that you have for your Curves Club. They just don’t they are being paid to be there and it is your business. If you understood this you just wouldn’t give it over to anyone who saids OH I can do it. Because they only know what you have shown them and there is something new to learn every day. If you have a passion for your business it is up to you to look out for it not your employees. You are the only Curves Smart person who should be looking after Curves Smart because it is your baby. When you buy a business you do just that and the job is your life. Like I said before I did this for 3 years 16 hours a day. This is what I did. I now have nothing to show for it. Nothing but the machines just sitting and doing nothing. I really want my business back in operation. I didn’t go in to this to fail. I wanted to do this the rest of my life. DAMIT! It hurts so bad!

  1187. CURVES: Why Did the Curves Franchisee Association Fail? (Part 1) : Unhappy Franchisee on February 2nd, 2012 10:03 am

    [...] of franchisee comments, ranging from sad to scathing, have been posted at CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story, on the CURVES: Curves Posts on Unhappy Franchisee and on other Curves franchise [...]

  1188. ADMIN on February 2nd, 2012 11:29 am

    Are you familiar with the Curves Franchisee Association?

    We invite your input and comments (under your name or anonymously) on this post:

    CURVES: Why Did the Curves Franchisee Association Fail? (Part 1)
    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/why-did-the-curves-franchisee-association-fail-1/

    Please feel free to forward this link to interested parties.

    You can see all of our Curves-related posts here: http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/category/franchisor/curves-for-women/

  1189. Guest on February 15th, 2012 2:37 pm

    I have heard that Curves International is holding franchisees, including those who have completed their franchise agreements, personally liable for all royalty fees and advertising fees for 12 months after they sell their clubs.

    Does anyone know if that is true? I thought the Curves Franchise Association changed this?

    Did Curves change it back, or did they never honor what they agreed to with the CFA?

  1190. Fit Dude on February 15th, 2012 2:50 pm

    Did everyone see that Mike Raymond quit Curves? See http://clubindustry.com/forprofits/curves-president-mike-raymond-steps-down-20120214/?cid=nl_nb. I think the handwriting is on the wall…..

  1191. Did CURVES President Mike Raymond Get Pruned? : Unhappy Franchisee on February 16th, 2012 11:42 am

    [...] You can talk to them here, Mike:  1000+ Comments from Curves franchise owners. [...]

  1192. ADMIN on February 16th, 2012 11:45 am

    Fit Dude – Thanks for the tip.

    Here’s our take. Please read & comment:

    Did CURVES President Mike Raymond Get Pruned?

  1193. CURVES AUSTRALIA Franchise Complaints : Unhappy Franchisee on February 22nd, 2012 12:19 pm

    [...] CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story  – 1000+ comments – Or CURVES: Curves Posts on Unhappy Franchisee for a complete list [...]

  1194. ADMIN on February 22nd, 2012 12:22 pm

    Comments invited:

    CURVES AUSTRALIA Franchise Complaints

    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-australia-franchise-complaints/

  1195. aussie z on February 24th, 2012 6:20 pm

    How do we australian franchisees join your class action.

  1196. aussie z on February 24th, 2012 6:33 pm

    Why don’t you all take it to your national current affair programs, or better still picket Heavins house. Remember what Curves keep telling us WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER

  1197. aussie z on February 24th, 2012 6:34 pm

    Why don’t you all take it to your national current affair programs, or better still picket Heavins house. Remember what Curves keep telling us WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER how long are we going to let CI walk all over us.

  1198. Patricia Walsh on February 27th, 2012 9:09 am

    Well do you really think that if you went to his home that it would all get better??? Really you need to take action and the action needs to be you all getting a lawyer and going to court and then maybe just maybe they will listen to the need for them to step up their game and do more television commercials.
    Two a month really! How discusting!!

  1199. The Truth on February 27th, 2012 10:12 am

    Patricia, you are clueless. Once you sign that franchise agreement you have no rights . Curves owners were already scamned by Robert Zarco. All 200 litigants paid Zarco close to 4k each for the honor to get their assessing kicked . Overt Lay and his ego trip encouraged these fools to feed Zarcon’s gravy train.

  1200. Patricia Walsh on February 27th, 2012 10:53 am

    I didn’t close they closed me down. They stopped payments from members and they told me to close. As the previous owner sold it to me at the right time as the economy was going down and hit the area hard for the first time in a number of years. This location should have been down sized by the previous owner and not sold to anyone. She still has two other locations and she has asked me for the equipment to be given to her. This women knew what she was doing she and her family members have been owning CURVES locations in Ontario Canada for a number of years. The CURVES international should never allow it to be sold to anyone. She lied to me and the books were tampered with. The lawyer told me not to buy but I did it anyway because she was so convincing. She then started to steal members from the area and talk badly about my location saying that I didn’t know what I doing. But I let members go on several travel passes as a matter of fact I encourage it so that the grass wasn’t greener on the other side. They came back every time happy to be back. Because I was cleaner and bigger. You know that I never bad month the other CURVES at all ever.

  1201. Guest on February 27th, 2012 11:18 am

    There is a list of the outcomes of past litigation against Curves, somewhat dated, here:

    http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-franchise-lawsuit-settlements/

    If you can get a current FDD it will have a more up-to-date list. You should probably talk to the franchisees who sued Curves to see whether they feel it was worthwhile, and ignore people who get their jollies kicking others when they’re down. Look into suing the previous owner, too.

    As those who have been in this position know, it’s not all about the money. The people who stood up and fought back, and exposed the Heavin the Secret Millionaire’s dirty secrets are not the fools, in my book.

  1202. Patricia Walsh on February 27th, 2012 11:24 am

    Please explain FDD abbreviation.

  1203. Guest on February 27th, 2012 11:37 am

    FDD stands for Franchise Disclosure Document.

    It used to be called the UFOC (Uniform Franchise Offering Circular).

  1204. Erin on February 28th, 2012 2:51 pm

    If you or anyone you know had a club close because your geographic area was too small to support a Curves and you lost money, I need you to contact me through the administrator (admin please tell me how) It doesn’t matter where you are located in the world. I cannot give details in such a forum. If anyone knows of another forum on which I could ex franchisees it would be greatly appreciated.

  1205. Amanda on March 6th, 2012 11:43 am

    Hey Erin, My club will be closing at the end of March. Not only did they allow the territory to be saturated, but I actually had another curves open in my territory and it ended up costing ME over $7000 to get them out.On top of that I had notified CI 9 years before about a club that had opened on my territorial border…they did sweet ‘F” all about it! Curves In’t has done ZERO for me, but waste my money with dumb shit like the Smart equip. What a joke! They have asked for my equipment to be donated/destroyed….this was never apart of my agreement 10 years ago, so it WON’T happen!
    I agree with several of these ex owners and would love to see CI go down in flames! Should have known they were trouble ever since finding out Gary went bankrupt multiple times before curves!!!

  1206. PATRICIA WALSH on March 6th, 2012 2:19 pm

    In the last 2 years there has been more then 6 CURVES close that I know about just in my area alone. Thorold, ON, Niagara Falls, ON, Welland, ON, Fort Erie, ON, Lincoln, ON, St Catharines, ON all of these are in Ontario Canada and not only that 2 of my neices sister in-laws has also just resently closed. Yes you are right they are allowing this to happen it seems it is the owners doing it. The owner that sold me mine is still open and she and her business partner are still going strong. You might want to look into who sold it to you. They are professionals that know the time when to open and when to close.

  1207. Irene S on March 8th, 2012 9:01 am

    Question regarding franchisee’s responsibility (seller) for royalty for up to 12 months after sale……..

    No. A seller is not responsible. The agreement was made to remove this stipulation on or about September 2010 through the efforts of the CFA agreed on a call with the CFA and Roger Schmidt, chief legal counsel @ CI.

    I sold my club and found that stipulation in the closing docx and immediately confirmed this agreement with Ron Gardiner,the CFA attorney. The wording was removed by CI and my sale was if finalized. Sellers and. Users should read their Agreements closely.

  1208. PATRICIA WALSH on March 8th, 2012 9:54 am

    Thank you, to everyone for sharing so much of their own information this is very helpful and I do apprecate that you do share. I just wanted to put in a good word for all….

    Have a fabulous day!

  1209. michael on March 13th, 2012 8:05 pm

    Sorry about the last two enteries… had trouble getting in. My situation is similar to many other posts. My wife and I sold our franchise on a contract for deed about 14 months ago. the gal who bought it closed the club. Now CI is coming after us for the $10,000. closing fee and thousands more for future royalties.
    what can we do next?

  1210. Sind on March 14th, 2012 12:29 am

    We have been in the dreadful middle of closing our club. It has been closed since November 1st 2011. We complied with all Curves Int. demands, including detroying our equipment, sent back our CurvesSmart/computer and now they have come back with $2000 closing fees cost and $1600, owing fees after we closed. Have anyone been thru this within the Ontario, Canada region and did not pay? We are in financial turmoil and really cannot afford to pay their fees. We are also Incorporated, does that make a difference?? Curves I definitely don’t care about the stress we are going thru. So disappointed. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

  1211. Wipedout on March 22nd, 2012 12:47 am

    Our county, which had 18 Curves as recently as 2006, is down to six, and three of those surviving clubs are now run by one new owner who got them for free.

  1212. Wipedout on March 22nd, 2012 12:51 am

    Can’t find the McCord Business Brokers site, where Curves are listed for sale. Is it gone?

  1213. Amanda on March 22nd, 2012 8:28 am

    McCord isn’t doing resales anymore. Contact curves resale dept. …..but good luck getting anyone to buy! Had mine listed for two years couldnt even get 20k.

  1214. Wipedout on March 23rd, 2012 12:55 am

    I’m not surprised McCord got out of the resales business. There were fewer and fewer club listings, and the prices kept plummeting. Another sign that Curves is in its death throes.

  1215. Edie on March 23rd, 2012 5:56 pm

    @Sind:

    Can you contact me thru my e mail. Can the admin give it to you?
    Not sure how that works?
    I dont want to put it on screen
    I would really like to talk to you.

  1216. Sind on March 23rd, 2012 11:20 pm

    Edie, I am not sure how that works either but if you have an info for me I would greatly appreciate it. thanks

  1217. Ms Kayla on April 8th, 2012 11:26 am

    WOW- I am glad I never purchased a CURVE franchise. I was in a fitness franchise years ago, and I will never sign anything without my lawyer looking it over first. Anyway, I want to comment about Zumba in the circuit classes. In my area they are doing that along with the machines, and for some time now, have been teaching 1 hour Regular Zumba classes during regular business hours too.- which is a BIG NO NO- But these owners are teaching them and having the staff also teach too. I can’t figure out why Curve International has not put a stop to them promoting Zumba and not the Curve concept. Shame on them

  1218. Andy on April 20th, 2012 4:48 am

    My husband and I were just served for a club we owned in New Jersey and closed in 2010. The case will be heard in New Jersey instead of Texas and I need to know if any of you know of either cases that have been won or if there is a class action suit in NJ. If you know of successful cases in NJ do you have a lawyer that they used?
    Thanks for any help

  1219. Erin on April 20th, 2012 6:40 am

    Andy, why did your club close or need I ask. At one time there were 249 clubs in NJ and now there are 43 and still dropping. Yes that is a drop of 83%. I cannot imagine that any court in the land would hold you liable (for a closing fee or future royalties) with this sort of failure rate. Overall, the current closure rate in the US is 68% of clubs. At one time there were 9882 and now there are about 3200. All information is from Curves submssions in their Uniform Franchise document. Please ask the administrator to give you my email so that we exchange information.

  1220. Patricia on April 24th, 2012 3:44 pm

    I am now out of house and home. I am now living in my brother’s basement. I had to put all of my belongings into a storage cantainer. At this point my brother’s wife is now badgering me to give the Curves equiptment away to the Salvation Army. Please provided me with some direction in what to do. Please

  1221. Lynn on April 25th, 2012 8:30 pm

    I have been reading the statements from Curve owners and am jaw-dropped to say the least! I answered an ad for a womens fitness club for sale $9k. The owners have owned it for 2 years and simply wanted to get rid of it quickly. I was very interested OMG! What a mess I would have gotten myself into! THANK YOU ALL A MILLION TIMES for sharing your experiences and may God himself bless each and every one of you for what you have endured with this company.

  1222. aussie Z on April 27th, 2012 1:54 am

    Can anyone tell me how the class action court case is going against Curves? We are have 30% of the Curves in Australia closed down.

  1223. Christina on May 2nd, 2012 5:51 am

    Oh my goodness this is really scary stuff I am a franchisee in Australia who may have to close in the near future, I wonder what will happen

  1224. Kathy on May 2nd, 2012 4:04 pm

    I have heard that Heavin is fixing to sell Curves. Anyone have information or ideas on what that may do to our clubs?

  1225. Masego on May 4th, 2012 4:02 pm

    I was offered to buy a Curves club this morning and was very excited as I recently stopped working and am looking to start a business of my own. I then googled Curves Francise this evening and landed on this shocking story of the nightmare that Curves International is! I’m supposed to meet the selling owner next week and can’t wait to hear what her story is and what she makes of all this. Anyway, at least now im equiped to ask the right questions and to ensure the contract does not include these ridiculous closing down fees, phoeny monitoring fees, non-existent advertising etc. Shoot, thank you all you guys for sharing your stories so that we dont fall into the same trap!

  1226. Masego on May 4th, 2012 4:09 pm

    Very sad indeed! What happened with the group action?

  1227. deb on May 10th, 2012 11:01 am

    Gary is on his way out. Newcastle is coming in….

  1228. Todd A. Peterson on May 10th, 2012 1:31 pm

    OOPS! Wrong petition! This one!

    http://www.change.org/petitions/veterans-deserve-success-not-matco-tools-franchise-failure

  1229. heidi on May 14th, 2012 1:10 pm

    i really wish that i would have seen this last year! i bought a re-sale location in august 2011 and less then a year later i am already looking at having to close. last week i FINALLY had someone come in from CI that was to be here when i took over to help me and answer questions. all she was was a corporate cheerleader. i work EVERY hour at my club and she told me to get out and promote more. WHEN??? i can’t afford to pay anyone to be at the club for me to get out and promote! and i have $95 taken from me every month to advertise and i have NEVER seen an ad in my area! there is my promoting money! i paid a $1000 training fee when i took over and i still don’t know what that covered because i watched the SAME videos that were on the Curves Community page leading up to my training. i was told by the previous owner that there were 100 members and i knew that was low but also knew that i could build from that . when i got in and looked in the system i had 62 ACTIVE members. i have not been able to catch up since taking over. i don’t want my members not to have a place to go but when in enough enough! my own health is suffering at this point and my CI cheerleader had the nerve to ask me if i was serious about helping the women of my community! at the risk of my own health??? NO! i could really use some advice on what to do. is there really no way of closing early without paying 10K???

    heartbroken

  1230. Sind on May 14th, 2012 1:54 pm

    WE too were told we had 230 members but in reality when we took over we have just below 200 active members….THIS IS RIDICULOUS why curves International doesn’t see that and void the transaction knowing that it has been doomed from the beginning, but we all know they LOVE money way more than their own franchisees. We closed last October due to low membership to another newer fitness centre. We are incorporated so not sure of our outcome will be. When we closed, they told us that they would only charge us $1 as franchisee fee and advertising due to closure. Our file was put on hold for awhile with no contact ( later to find out the person taking care of our file left) which told us we were able to keep some of the equipment for only personal use but then going back saying we needed to destroy it. And all the while, they were trying to withdraw the monthly charges for advertising and fees when we were actually closed. Then told us we needed to pay them that amount plus a discounted closing fees. We are still fighting with them needless to say…..I HAVE TO SAY THAT CURVES NOR GARY HEAVIN CARES ABOUT THEIR FRANCHISEES! and also how much we have lost financially buy having this business. We nearly lost our home over it!! We proabably still can! BEWARE IN BUYING A CURVES FRANCHISE!!!!

  1231. Aussie Z on May 15th, 2012 3:17 am

    Heidi I too work every single minute my club is open I cannot afford staff as my membership is so low. Do Curves care that I am running on empty? No. I get the same response as you got get out in the community drop of lead bozes, do this do that. I am now very close to closing my club. I to have not seen my moneys worth of advertising in my area. 3% for advertising royalties is alot of money when you dont have alot of money, then they expect you to pay $10000 to close down. What a greedy greedy man. Stay away from Curves. We in Australia had to sign a 10 years franchise agreement (must have been off with the fairies when I did that).

  1232. BigFool on May 15th, 2012 7:32 am

    I have owned a franchise for 2 yrs in a small tourist town, that grows tremendously in the summer months, however, this did not help my “CURVES” business grow. In fact I kept loosing members to the two other fitness clubs in town, one which also takes all of the insurance plans, and has all the newer equipment. So, in
    February, I received an e-mail from my area director, then another from the legal department that I was going to be put into their closing program. I complied with all of the items on the list, my club closed on May 1st, 2012, and now I have received an e-mail saying my remaining advertising, and franchise fees would be $42,480., however they would offset them and I would only have to send them $1500. by 5/31/12. Now, first of all Curves International CLOSED my CLUB, second of all, I had to stop receiving all members payments a month before, and I have not ever collected a paycheck. So, where do I come up with the $1500. I guess my question is what can they legally do to me, since my business was filed as an LLC?

  1233. Todd A. Peterson on May 15th, 2012 8:35 am

    With the IFA leading the way these franchisors who sign up and become protected by the IFA are in a competition. To see which franchisor can make the MOST money screwing their franchisee. Educate yourself about the IFA and you will understand what the real problem with franchising is. See that the U.S. government has TRIED to change franchising from a DISHONEST organization to a more HONORABLE way to do business but there are TOO many corrupt members of our government who will not allow MORE FAVORABLE laws to be made in franchising.

    I don’t understand why people can’t distinguish RIGHT from WRONG except that it might hurt their pocketbook or keep them from getting a spot in our government.

    Look and see what the IFA is! how it was started! who started it! what organizations have been created by the IFA! what the organizations created by the IFA ACCOMPLISH!

    You will be disgusted!

  1234. Todd A. Peterson on May 15th, 2012 8:37 am

    Learn about Vetfran, Minorityfran, FranPac.

  1235. heidi on May 15th, 2012 11:48 am

    BigFool – how did they close your location?? did you inquire about it prior? i ask because i wanted to get info on what i would need to do IF i needed to close my club and i heard nothing from my AD or legal for a week and then i get an email from the CDS that was to come help me saying that she is sorry to hear that i am closing and since that was the case that she would not be visiting my club. i was able to get in touch with her and my AD and make sure that she was still coming they said that i was being sent into the closing procedures prior to my stopping it in advance. i’m wondering if now they will close my club since i asked about it…

  1236. BigFool on May 15th, 2012 12:42 pm

    Heidi- I did send an e-mail to legal on the same day they said I was going to be in the closing program. However a few days before this my AD asked me for all my financial figures, and I complied. I had sent legal an e-mail inquiring if there was any way to end my contract, because my Husband had a stroke the month after I bought my Club, and it has been way too much stress on me!! I can’t believe that they would choose to close me and not even recomment that I try to sell, and now want to collect fees for closing me down. It is a relief to be out from under, however I didn’t want it to end this way.

  1237. janice mcmullen on May 16th, 2012 5:13 pm

    I was reading about everyone’s problems, unbelievable. Are the Canadian franchises having the same problems.

  1238. me on May 16th, 2012 6:59 pm

    I have four years into the business. I am ready to get out! I invested a lot of money into my club including Curves Smart and Zumba instructors. Now, Curves is forcing me to get OS. I will no longer be reimbursed for my wellness members unless I invest in OS. They are also canceling the paper drafts. They are trying to push Curves Complete down by throat, and I’m just not buying it. I have lost enough money. If I close before my contract expires (5 year contract), will they come after me with a law suit. Since there have been so many closures —- will they just let me walk away? I can’t afford to lose any more money. Has anyone escaped the wrath of Curves? Please help with a response.

  1239. me on May 16th, 2012 7:05 pm

    I have four years into the business. I am ready to get out! I invested a lot of money into my club including Curves Smart and Zumba instructors. Now, Curves is forcing me to get OS. I will no longer be reimbursed for my wellness members unless I invest in OS. They are also canceling the paper drafts. They are trying to push Curves Complete down by throat, and I’m just not buying it. I have lost enough money. If I close before my contract expires (5 year contract), will they come after me with a law suit. Since there have been so many closures —- will they just let me walk away? I can’t afford to lose any more money. Has anyone escaped the wrath of Curves? Please help with a response. I hope to resolve this soon.

  1240. Brenna on May 16th, 2012 10:17 pm

    You will not be forced to get OS until your agreement has run out. Look at the spring training and you will see with the new Conditional purchase of Curves International from Newmarket, that they want to see 80% of the Clubs on OS. Is OS a problem? You bet it is! It can violate Canadian Privacy laws with the required birthdates and addresses that is sent to Texas via the internet. Memebers have to sign forms to release that info to the USA. If you choose to walk away..follow the Club procedures of closing..start to ‘cheat the sheets’ by showing a lower membership and sales so that they cannot see you as making money, but rather having no money. Neg. a closing fee of 1000-1500. Follow their instructions for a complete closure list and they will be more than fair to you. And tell them you have no money if you do not..Tell them now…tell them every month…

  1241. Brenna on May 16th, 2012 10:21 pm

    Janice mcmullen: Yes..the Canadians are dropping like flies right now..each province sees 2-4 Clubs close every month. There is 60% of the Canadian Clubs for sale right now.12 months ago Manitoba had 36 Clubs . Today they have 22 with 3-4 more closing in the next few months…A case of protein shakes cost 39.00 to ship. and a case now cost 130.00-135.00. The products should have a 70% price point mark up…we only profit 8-10% right now.

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