CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
March 10, 2009
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
Mr Lay:
Thank you for telling your story. I can totally relate. Four years ago, my wife, her niece and I owned a Curves so successful it had 1,100 members and was named franchise of the year for the Southeast US. We wound up owning a total of three Curves. The future seemed incredibly bright,
What happened in between is a long, frustrating story that I’ve told at franchisepick.com, but today, my wife and I are broke, bankrupt and about six weeks away from losing our home to foreclosure, and we’ve still got a child in diapers. I’ve never known such feelings of fear, failure and despair, day in and day out.
Oversaturization killed us, just as it did you. Curves should have capped the number of clubs at 4,000 to 5,000. We started cannibalizing one another to survive, while fighting off knockoffs.
The only group-action lawsuit I’ve heard of is being filed by Zarco and Einhorn in Miami. If you’ve heard of others, I’d like to hear about them. Unfortunately, we were told by Zarco that since we SOLD our clubs – one for full price and two others for a paltry 50 cents each plus debt when things got real bad – and didn’t close them we couldn’t be part of the lawsuit.
Thanks again for your testimony. Perhaps our stories will keep others thinking about buying a resale from experiencing the nightmare we’ve endured for the past few years.
I am in the process of a “sale” for 10k. I originally was going to close on July 31, 2008. A buyer came forward, we met, and she wanted more info and went to CI and when they were through they told her to go through MCord to handle the sale instead of coming back to me. They wanted thier 5k fee. They lied to both of us. They got me to agree under duress. I have been in business four years. They were going to come after me for the remainder of 10 years. Two years ago I put in for a 2-day “tune-up” for July 2006. Before it could happen all of my employees quit. I called CI and asked for a 2 month delay, and they said no. They said that if I did not go through with it, they were going to hit my account for the two months dues forgiveness from the previous 2 months, and take the next month at the same time. So I sat with the trainer for 2 days and did nothing but entertain her, buy her lunch and pay her mileage and fees. I have been furious with CI ever since. I participated with the Powerful Promotions Fitness Study two months later when it was “illegal” with CI. My cards accidentally went into a neighboring territory, she called me and called me everything but white and human for an hour on the phone. Called our AD, and she called me an hour later and said that she would have to turn me over to legal, I told her go ahead, that I was doing whatever it took to keep my doors open. I never heard from legal at all. It was approved shortly thereafter. Of course this was after Gary Heavin was able to get an office inside thier operation, so he could monitor it and make sure he got his share of the money. I was the only one in my area that decided to do the study, and after the other clubs saw my results, they lost thier fear and jumped on the bandwagon. Now nothing works. All of our so called methods are ambiguous. My paper went out of business a few months ago, mailouts are outrageous, telemarketing is out of the question. My territory should be closed and never re-opened. We are rural and people have to drive purposely to get to me. McCord is telling me that I should be “happy” to be selling even though it is at a loss, they call 5k “some money”. They expect me to leave all of my circuit (all 14 pieces) and furniture, computers, everything for this price. They are crazy, since I paid for the other 6 pieces, they are going, along with everything else into storage. I feel sorry for the new owners, since one of them is a member in my club already. They don’t have a clue as to how hard they are going to have to work. They are dealing with my landlord now. She is stupid, she refused to make improvements for me in four years, and they are trying to get her to concede on some things. I have been sorry for the last two years for the decision that I made four yers ago. This was my first business, and it had to be a franchise, and now I have to lose it all. I am totally turned off of franchises now. I almost split my territory three years ago and am so glad that I did not, if I had I would be out double my losses. I am deeply disappointed in Gary Heavin and the way he represented his company and the lies that he spews forth. I am so glad that I did not buy the Smart Equipment, that would have been another loss. We were part of the first roll out last year, here in Texas. They tried to strong arm us into it. I did not bite. I was told yesterday by the new owner, that soon it will be mandatory for every club. I hope this will dissappoint people from jumping off into this company. If you are contemplating buying sit down and talk with the owner in the area you are considering, then make your decision.
I feel for you Dorothy. My sister had to go through mccord as well and they could care less about her all they cared about was getting their money. Gary Heavin has this guy McCord set up in business as an approved vendor to broker resales. Sounds like a conflict of interest to me. Who are they representing the seller or Curves anyway. It’s hard to figure out.
I bought 3 curves franchises a year ago guess what I cant make my rent I bounce my payrolls and now I am at a loss for words…I have 2 kids in college and I am drowning
Hello all. Me and my husband purchased a curves in the ohio area October 2007. I was so excited because I had own a business before. I was off work and I only had my retirement money to live on. My husband was laid off making litle money so we thought that this would be a great investment. Well my story goes like this. I purchased this club from an employee from Curves International. She had only owned the club from July 2008-Oct. 2008. She stated that Curves approached her about the opportunity to buy. (seemed strange) to me but my excitement was over shawdowing any I thought I was getting a good deal with everything included in the package. (equipment, washer/dryer, etc). However this is when my nitemare began. The revenue was not generating , landlord was making me honor a prior lease agreement, they were not responsible for no maitenance of their space. They were not helping to promote to bring more business in the mall. I requested from curves international to relocate and they denied me statin that the new location was within 2 miles from existing location. I tried discussing this matter wih curves but they replied to an e-mail but when I ask for their suggestion on where to locate they never responded back. I tried requesting support from the area director and additional training they stated that they did not do that but other trainings were offered about 45 minutes from me. But they will call me to clear out my curves e-mail account.
Now I am getting further in debt with no support can not move, can not pay my rent nor can I afford an attorney.
The training that was held in Texas was more of promoting their products and you as the owner need to buy, buy buy.
Curves misrepresented themselves and I feel as if I am stuck.
I have been an owner for almost 2 years. I understand that there’s lots to learn when you start a business, and that it’s tough to turn a profit w/in the first few years in business.
What I don’t understand is why the only ‘help’ we are offered is the supposedly ‘proven systems’ that worked amazingly over 10 years ago when Curves was a phenomenon. Where is forward thinking? Strategic planning? Where are the ‘systems’ that assist the owner in day-to-day operations (eg. procedures for all staff members from unlocking in the morning to shutting down at night?) (It’s been an interesting adventure and education putting together those procedures during the past year, but isn’t that what the supposed benefit of purchasing a franchise is to entail?)
I’m hoping to sell my area asap, but in my heart I know it’s highly unlikely. Who willingly buys a broken car?
I don’t know if I have enough ‘fight’ left in me or the capital necessary for legal action. I’d be relieved to be out from under, feeling much smarter about business (and possible mistakes to avoid in the future).
I have been a franchisee of a Handyman business in the past. The one thing anyone getting into a franchise needs to remember…the franchisor is in the business of selling franchises. Once they have your money I find that the franchisor is not very helpful with any problems.
Be careful when buying a franchise, more than likely you can do the idea on your own, have faith in yourself and go for it on your terms, not the franchisor terms.
Hello All I have owned my franchise for three years, I have not been making any money for two years and not getting any help 2 years ago I had a stroke my doctor said it was do to stress I am 46 years old trying to hang on but very hard I would never do this again
I am sad to hear all of these terrible stories but I am glad to know I am not alone. I just closed my business in June. It was a very hard deciosion to make because I dearly love my members but it was a business decision and it had to be done. Other Curves owners that I be-friended told me how they were paying credit with credit, not making the rent and then the economy went south. I saw it was going to happen to me as well. I had considered closing in October of 2007 and called to see what I had to do to close and I was told there would be no closing fees. I decided to tough it out and hang on a little longer and that was a mistake. Luckily I didn’t really go further in debt and my business was able to stay above water but I had not taken a pay check since June of 2006. I called them back earlier this year and I was threatened with the 10K closing fee. I was told to sell it for $1 to avoid paying that fee. I was decreased to running around town offering my Curves for free to anyone who would take it, so when it doesnt sell you look like a fool that you couldn’t even sell it for a $1. They did decrease my fee but it was still too much. I have a $25k loan I still have to pay that I took out to buy the franchise in 2004 and I am unemployed. The funny thing is, when I signed up there had to be a population of 5000. When I did my initial research the 2000 cencus reported my area as having 3,600. I assumed this would prevent me from being able to purchase the club. They told me I had a population of 5800. When I asked them how they come up with that figure they told me they figure populations in towns where I would be pulling members from. After I opened Curves clubs were put in those towns and I was no longer pulling from them. About a month after I opened they raised the bar of the population to 7,500. Do you know still to this day they tell me I have a population of 5800 and I know it is not the truth. I was allowed to buy a franchise that was not going to work for long. We were all set up for failure.
How can I contact Mr. Robert Lay?
Send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com and I will forward to to him.
How can I have the contact (address, email or fax) of the lawyer filing the class action against Curves International?
I too am closing my doors this coming Wednesday. It is not for lack of effort and putting all of my personal money into the business just to keep the doors open these past 3 1/2 years. What a pattern I see as I read the comments above. We are all in the same boat that has a large hole in the bottom, draining all our money, our time and our energy, all for nothing in the end. I too, loved the concept of Curves and what it has meant to my members these past 3 years. They are so saddened by the closing of a club they dearly loved. My only consolation in these final days are the wonderful cards and notes from them expressing their appreciation for the venture I took on in opening the club. Curves wants $10,000 from me by the end of this week. I just have to laugh. Don’t they realize if I had $10,000, I wouldn’t be closing my doors. I am so glad I did not have the money to invest in the Curves Smart equipment. How much more debt I would have been in if I’d gone down that road. Thanks for everyone’s comments. I definitely feel that I am not alone or as much a failure knowing others like me, have lost it all in this venture. How sad for us all.
Robert, I would love to talk to you, I had to close my curves for breach of contract, The Ad decided to let the clubs in my area know that i was closing and I Never said that or signed an intent to close form. Please contace me with your information so we can talk further into this. Curves has tried to bribe me with waving fees not to say anything/
We are in the same boat and have a lot of ammunition against McCord brokers for elevating numbers in our purchase. We definitely want to be a part of any group action as Mr. Heavin has misrepresented this entity to the fullest. How do we get involved?
Thanks.
This is for all that are interested in the lawsuit, contact [unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com for forwarding], he will be gald to talk with you about your options. He is not the lawyer. I sent my paperwork yesterday and I am so happy I did. Curves sent me a letter saying I owe them in excess of $40k for fees for the next six years. It is ludicrous. They stold my territory from me, and sold it to the buyer for $5k and PROVIDED her with machines. I locked all mine up and everything else, they wanted me to walk away from computers, programs etc and leave for her. Was not about to let her have them. So they cannot collect this money from me. I am happy I did not cave in on the sale. I would have lost all option in the lawsuit for recovery. They have become a corrupt gustapo, and they think that we are going to run scared. After all the duress they put me through, they are going to get the one-two punch from this Texas gal! There are other area Curves near me that will be closing soon. They can’t keep up with the losses, so they are resorting to intimidation and scare tactics. What ever you do don’t give into them. If you can take your losses now, for a larger gain later. You can contact me if you like. The more there are in on the goup suit, we can tap him. It’s about time we started taking back what is ours!
I have very good information to help youe layer with the case, where can I send it, the emails [you gave] do not work.
[Ed.: email unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com and ask for it to be forwarded]
Carrie,
I would love to talk to you. If you send an email to the Ed. note in the above post (unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com] he will forward it to me and I will call you asap.
Also I would like to thank everyone for posting their stories. Please refer all other contacts you know who own a Curves to this site as the media attention will help put a stop to Gary Heavin’s, what I believe corrupt business practices. Thanks again everyone , Robert
I feel terrible for all of you ,
Here in Québec we dont have any support and
even if a major competitor here is just taking away
the members we have because of a better concept (you should see this!!) we just can’t compete, we are all alone
If I was GH I would buy this Swann fitness
so we would be all doing better .
I feel so sorry for all of you. I was a Curves owner and by thre grace of God sold my business in 2007. Even then it was alot of the same stories. I can’t believe that Curves has not learned how to deal with this. For those of you who asked, McCord Business Brokers is run by Bill (i think) McCord, who used to be the Vice President of Resales for Curves. The impression I got, was in late 2006 and early 2007 when the closures of Curves were starting to go thru the roof, McCord started his own business as an expert on Curves resales. I heard thru a mentor Curves set it up that way to take away any liability from them on re-selling Curves franchises that were not worthy of being re-sold. I personally believe it was also away for Curves to make more money on the side without the franchisees knowing it. In the beginning McCord would not even “accept” my club for resale because it wasn’t profitable. They would pick and chose which franchises they wanted to represent so they could get more commission. It was crazy!
I know many people who had to close their doors, lost their homes and are still in debt over thier Curves ownership. While like many, I still love the Curves concept, I hate that I ever bought into Curves and their propaganda. It was the worst mistake of my life! And Curves needs to learn to be a fiscally responsible company if they are going to survive long term. They need to be procative and stop being reactionary to the problems that are causing the Curves clubs to close. I wish all of you the best!
Dear Curves Owners,
We would like to thank all of the owners who have decided to join us in the group action lawsuit against Curves International and Gary Heavin. The amount or response has been overwhelming. We also want to inform all the other owners who are considering joining the lawsuit that they have until Monday September 15th to join the first group. Keep in mind that the Zarco law firm will accept payments over a 6 month period for the 4,000 dollar retainer.
If you have any questions don’t hesitate to email Sean at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com and he will forward your message to me.
I have read and reread all of the comments and stories on this site and the other sites, my question to you all is.. the curves in my area is up for sale..the difference is I am in australia… would I be making a mistake if I buy it here in Australia, I do manage this curves and can see areas that need improving .. I now feel that I could be doing this with my heart and not from a business point.. lately we our membership has been dropping but I am sure it could be improved.. Please I value all opinions .. Thankyou
ARE YOU NUTS— FORGET ABOUT IT —- IT WILL BE THE BIGEST MISTAKE OF YOUR LIFE AND YOU WILL SUBSTAIN LOSSES YOU CAN’T BELIEVE. CURVES WILL BE IN BANKRUP BY THE MIDDLE OF NEXT YEAR IF NOT BEFOR. MANY OF THE AUSTRAlLA HAVE JOINED THE GROUP LAWSUIT AND ARE PROCEEDING TO SUE. WALK AWAY NOW BEFOR ITS TOO LATE FOR GOD SAKE TAKE THE ADVICE RUN DON’T WALK AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!
ready to give it away. When I bought this Curves in May 2006 it was showing a profit. It was owned by our Wisconsin Area Rep who overstated it membership, thus the reason I lose $1,000.00 per month. I know the economy and the new fitness compitition play a role in our loses. But I would love to know where are advertising dollars are going other than popcorn, cereal, and bars. What a rip. I see Nutrisystems, Weight Watchers, etc over and over and nothing for Curves. Even the Diane Magagine has her name Huge, do you see curves, yes very small. To someone new to Curves, which we all hope for, would not have a clue. BR, all I hear is BR. What worked 10 years ago, needs to be updated. Here in Wisconsin 9 out of 10 email are closing my club, giving it away, we can’t even give them away. Where is the CHRISTIAN attitude of lets help our clubs so that they survive this and get back to the actual 30 minutes workout for women that works, forget the food, internet diet all for money. It comes down to its all about money. NOT FOR ME!
I am part of the first group action law suit. Our suit has been going on for almost two years now. Make no mistake, those of you that are choosing to go this route must prepare for the long haul. Curves International (CI) will fight you at each possible juncture and try to wear you down. Nevertheless even knowing this was the path I was about to go down, I felt I no longer had any choice. Fact is CI removed all options for me by not ignoring my complaints and concerns with what happening with my business. By their very actions and lack of actions I was pushed to the financial brink of either accepting the situation the way it was or fight back knowing it would be a long fight. I choose the latter.
My case is still pending. I am not sure when it will finally end. Knowing what I know now my decision to sue would not have changed. If anything, I would have started the process sooner if it was possible. I am confident that when my case comes to fruitarian that I will be satisfied that some justice will be served.
Some might think, if I sue CI will make things worse for me. If that is your thinking, I ask you, “What is CI doing for you now?” I ask that question well aware of the answer. CI is doing nothing for you now, they ignore your complaints, they ignore your questions and they are not protecting your interests. CI is not interested in “business partnership” which is what a true franchise agreement should be. CI is in the business of selling franchises, selling Curves products and product promotions for other companies products though us the franchisee. I ask, ” How can Curves franchisee buy Curves Bars cheaper at the corner grocery store then through CI? Answer is obvious, CI does not see you the franchisee as a business partner. The franchisee is a customer who is obligated by contract to use approved CI vendors. By treating us as a customer CI has maximized its profits by deliberately overselling and allowing the overbuilding of Curves units. To add insult to injury, with all the market data, all of CI research and statistics, CI now blames the franchisee for the failure of their business.
To Howard Heaven (his real first name is Howard and his middle name is Gary. He hates being called Howard which only encourages me to do so), this is all perfectly ok. To Howard, God rewards those who are righteous with riches. This is part of the problem because one cannot logically reason with someone with that arrogant mind set. Even with Howard knowing that I am suing him, CI still has not tried to improve upon its relationship with me, meaning that to this day, my complaints have not been addressed this includes the most basic ones such as obtaining monthly fees due to us by other clubs when a member transfers. If CI cannot or will not address such a basic disagreement with another club how can I expect them to make good on over saturation of the market? The simple answer is we can’t. The only viable option that we have is through legal recourse.
With the number of lives that Howard has ruined, both financially and personally I am amazed that there are not more lawsuits against this man. Howard has bankrupted countless people and families, people have lost their homes, lost their live savings, children removed from collage and there has been one suicide. Howard dismisses this as the price to win the franchise war in the women’s fitness business. I am pleased that freely admits this, the problem is that we the franchisees are the ones who must pay this price.
Meanwhile, as you the reader, contemplate if you choose to take legal action against Howard and CI, consider the fact that Howard owns three jet aircraft and is setting corporate policy in which a closing club now must pay him $10,000 for that privilege.
McCord’s first name is John and he is as greedy as they come, IMO. I spoke with someone that used to work there and McCord stiffed broker’s on their commissions. If he had to help with the resale he wouldn’t pay the people doing the work. He was only paying the 2% of the 8% commission.
Also, the brokers there have many listings and you are just a number. When a club closes now you have to give McCord 30 days to try and sell it and they keep most if not all of the money.
How does a business brokerage firm represent the sell when they are endorsed by the franchisor? It seems to me they would have more interest in the buyer since they are the ones entering the system.
I have not had the same issues with Curves that people here have. I am sorry that people here have had problems. I know one thing, when I sell I won’t be using McCord or any “approved” Curves broker for that matter.
How do I get in contact with Robert Lay??
We have owned a Curves franchise for over a year now… Big mistake.
Mitch
Curves franchisees wanting lawsuit info or who want to correspond with Robert Lay should send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com with a request to forward it to Robert. He will get in touch with you shortly.
I’m set to close my doors the middle of October. I too have tried to sell my club for $1 to avoid the abandonment fee but can’t even get someone to buy it for that. I have heard that Curves has settled for less than $10,000 with some Curves owners. For those of you who have closed, have they offered you a lower settlement fee? What was it? Also, did you have to donate your basic equipment? I have a buyer that would help me pay back some of my initial investment debt and have contacted a lawyer who says according to my franchise agreement, I own the machines and therefore can sell them for my own monetary gain. When I got the closing paperwork from Curves International it says I have to donate them or destroy them. I also have the problem of my lease to deal with. Curves has been less than helpful. In fact won’t even return my calls or emails promptly but I really don’t have the time, money, or energy to put into a lawsuit.
I am set to close on September 30. Curves also tried to get me to sell my curves to several time wasters. No luck once someone looks at my books and finds out they have to be in a 5 year contract. Now they are wanting they 10,000 settlement fee. They have offered to come to a mutual agreement of 5000. We dont even have that. I have not been paid in forever but have always made sure that Curves got paid. We have put 3000 in the store just to close it. They do not really care. They just want their money. Has anyone else settled? How much did you settle for. Thanks for your stories. Makes me feel a little better.
Has Curves taken legal action against anyone for not paying the settlement fee?
Everything I’ve read is exactly what I am going through here in Michigan. I feel like I’m in a bad dream and hope to wake up soon. I feel like all I can do is pray, pray, pray. I too, don’t have any resources or energy to take legal action. I’m embarassed to admit how much I paid the former owner (an attorney no less) for this nightmare.
i feel we are all living parallel lives. I am an original owner from 7 yrs ago. the first 2.5 yrs were awesome. i could have sold then for 250k, but i loved the concept and was having fun AND making money. it’s been all down hill from then. I am starting the process of trying to close without having to pay them. other club owners have said if you e-mail and tell them you don’t have any money they will negotiate down with you. I agree that with the large amount of closures CI may file bancruptcy sooner than later. To all you smarties out there, what would happen to clubs that are still open at that time? would we be given an opportunity to just walk?? I have 2 yrs 6 months left of a ten year agreement. wonder if i can hang in that long.
How do I get in touch with you regarding the lawsuits. Please email me
I am a college student doing a Senior Project on why Curves are failing and we are trying to help a Curves Owner before she loses everything.
please contact me. thanks
I too am curious what will happen to the remaining owners when this whole thing implodes. Any thoughts on this??
My issue is that my area director stormed into the club and noticed that I had a treadmill as extra cardio for my members. My members are only allowed to use it when they have done their circuit rotuine. Jeff Lehman did not say a word to my two memebers or staff. These ladies had no clue what was going on. He was taking pictures of the treadmill. It is becoming fall to winter and these is just a little extra something I give my ladies. Jeff Lehman said that I should have told my ladies to go to the local Walmart and wall the inside of walmart to get extra cardio. My ladies laughed in my face!!!!! A week later I got a letter from Curves legal. Took it to my lawyer. My lawyer tried calling an entire week and left over 10 messages to get back with him. Only one phone call was returned. We have still heard nothting. I got a email from curves legal saying they would call my lawyer by the end of the day and nothing. I have put so much money into this club it is not funny.
When everyone went to club camp did you notice that when they asked if you were a new club owner or a resale that almost every hand went up for a resale. DId you think that was odd? Did you wonder why? Plus club camp was more of a CULT. The enire time was weird. I also paid that $1000.00 and got nothing. I had to pay for bottles of water and lunch. I thought this was a my business and they are there to help you if you need it. NO SO
Please contact me and let me know what I need to do to participate in this lawsuit.
I closed my club and am waiting to see what my settlement will be. It doesn’t really matter as I don’t have any money to give Curves International. My landlord is suing for the rest of my lease term and I’m going to be claiming bankruptcy. I offered to give Curves all the money to pay for the settlement if I could just be allowed to sell my basic 8 machines. They won’t allow this. I thought because I paid for the machines that I owned them but whatever. They are the corporation and the little guy cannot compete with that.
We are so right there with you! Curves has been a HORRIBLE investment. The territories are way too close and the royalties are a pain. They basically punish you by making a minimum royalty fee. Our club comes no where close to making enough that 3 or 5 % is the 95 or 195 min fee. I am all over learning more about this lawsuit! Also…I heard from another owner, that there is a 10 year contract and you have to pay like 10,000 to curves if you want to close before that is up. Is this true?
to all posts made in Oct.
Please send an e-mail to Sean at this web site [unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com] and he will forward your mail to me so I can send you information on the lawsuit. And yes it is true that curves is trying to charge owners that cloose a 10000 closing fee. They have just stared to actually file lawsuits against owners who refuse to pay. It has gotten to be totally unbeliveable as to the steps that curves international is going through to punish it’s owners who dare to disagree with them. All curves owners need to be aware of their practices and the current group lawsuit and they all need to stand up against curves international so they can’t do this to more unsuspecting new owners who buy an unsuccsessful franchise that closed in the past.
I just got back from curves convention in Orlando. Believe it or not they had a vote to punish clubs who do not follow all of CI`s rules and want to now impose fines.
On top of that they want to charge all clubs a 75 dollar monitoring fee. The shocking thing is a majority of club owners voted for this.
Amazing to me. In these tough economic times the international should be supporting all of us, not trying to hurt the club owner.
Mitch:
This is unreal.
Why would franchisees support this? Was the sales pitch that good?
I was wondering how the convention went. This is the first year that I have not gone in about 5 years. Did they say anything about all of the Curves closing or about the 10,000 fee they are charging curves to close? Thanks
Has anybody paid Curves the 10000 fine
ATTENTION UNHAPPY CURVES OWNERS
Calling on all curves owners who have had problems with [Name withheld] and Curves International. We all know what a crook, unethical, illegal and immoral business person he is but there are some companies who don’t know who the real [Name withheld] is. He is trying to partner with a company called Silver Sneakers Fitness Program for advertising purposes. Silver Sneakers is a replicable business and if you don’t know who they are you can go to their web site by typing in Sliver Sneakers in your search box. As soon as you are done reading this post please either call them, send them a fax or an email telling them what you think of Curves International and [Name withheld]. We need to put a stop to [Name withheld] from taking advantage of the seniors who belong to Silver Sneakers. I can’t stress this enough so all of you who have joined the group lawsuit and those who wanted too but can’t afford to please act on this now before [Name withheld] takes advantage of them also.
Thank you,
Unhappy
SILVER SNEAKER FITNESS PROGRAM
[Del]
http://www.silversneaker.com
In response to refusing to pay the closing fee that Curves is damanding, here is what’s happening to us:
We are another club with the same old story – we finally had to close our doors August 30. Curves will email you their Closing Procedures, an Intent to Close Facilty form, etc. (note the titles–”closing” not “abandonment”) and a demand for $10,000 so that a Mutual Release can be offered to you (their compromise for future royalties/advertising fees). We followed all their instructions to the T – except for the $10,000, which we refused to pay. They then “reconsidered” and dropped it to $8,000–we refused. They again “reconsidered” and dropped it to $6,000 and said since we don’t have the money, we could sign a promisory note with them (yeah, right). I have heard they will go down to about $2,500. However, since we emphatically refused to pay, they stopped there and referred us to the legal department.
Next, the legal department UPS’ed us a letter saying we now owe them $42,480 for future royalties/advertising fees for the remaining 5 1/2 years of our Franchise agreement. We have faxed them back a letter saying we will not pay future royalties/advertising fees for a club which is no longer in existence, addressing the issues of their being unethical, discriminating, intimidating and harassing. We don’t know what good it will do, and the next step is they could serve us with court papers. This is all we know up to this point. If anyone has any experience as to what happens next, please share this with us!
CA Ex-Owner
Speaking as an employee of Curves International, the things you speak of hear are of no great surprise. This is a company run by family and lacking the expertise needed to really run a company correctly. The Heavins did a great job when the company was smaller and they could manage things on their own. I have no complaints about them personally. However, they choose to hire family and friends for positions they are unqualified for and you have all suffered the outcome of this.
It is the most disorganized mess you’ve ever seen. There is no doubt in my mind that you will win in a court of law, if you have the time and money to keep standing up to them. Any good employees that we do get, are soon gone when they realize what a mess this place is. The people at the top are more concerned with coming up with revenue generators for corporate than for the franchisees. Not exactly the best strategy in my mind. Look to the top of the organization, the rest of us are just order takers.
Good Luck.
Former Curves owner — D.C. suburb. One of the “older” large territories. Saturation of market, lack of quality control, lack of support are my major complaints. I was forced to let the Club go when, after years of struggle, I became ill. It would have gone under anyway. So, I would love to here of options.
Deb
ex owner here is what you have in store for you. The Next step that CI will take is to have you served with papers talking you to court for the 42,480 dollares. It has to be served by a legal process server and not through the mail. You will have 28 days to respond in the district court in Waco Tx. If you do not respond you will be held in contemped of court and the award will be automaticly given to CI and they will have a judgemnt against you for that amount plus court costs. At that point they will file a judgement or lien against any personal property you have in the area you live. They can not force you to sell anything to get their lien covered but if you sell anything that is recorded in your state such as a home , car, business or anything else that is registared with the state you reside in their money will be subtracted from that sale. If you have a put up the property for collateral and have a first postion note or encumberance that that will be paid first than their judgment than any 2nd postion note you may have at that time. In most states that judgement is only good for 3 years and CI would have toi refile it at that time. But the reason they are doing this is because once they get the judgement they can write it off as a loss on their taxes. In order for them to take it as a loss on their taxes the IRS rules state that they must try to collect the out standing balance. But knowing what we know about Howard he may try to keep those leins filed every 3 year knowing that sometime in the future when you die and your estate is settled if there is any thing left over that would normally be passed on to your children it would be subject to paying off that judgement first. You do have the option of responding to the summons that was served on you and you need to respond but you will need a lawyer in order to do that. We do have lawyers in Tx that is handling this for the clubs that have gone through this but the retainer is anywhere from 1500 to 3000. At this point CI is willing to drop the case once you hire a lawyer in return for signing the release that prevents you from joining the group action lawsuit. . If you join the group action lawsuit before you are served the summons the law firm that has been representing the group action lawsuit will handle this for you at no charge. You should contact several lawyers in your state for their opinion on how to proceed at that time you are served but I can assure you their advice will be that you have to respond to that notice. If you still have questions please email Sean Kelly at unhappyfranchisee.com and he will forward it to me and I will be more that happy to go over everything with you.
To the employee of CI
Thank you for your post and your encouragement on the lawsuit. It’s such a shame that Howard has done this to his business and for mthose of us that have been their since the beginnig would all agree with you on the cause of the problems CI is having. This all started in 03 when he forced out the top management of the company and replaced them with his family members.
( previous post continued)
All the owners who have signed up for the group lawsuit know we are going to win as every motion that has been brought before the court has been ruled on in favor for the litigants. Owners who would like to get prove of that can call the federal district court house in waco Texas and request all the filings that have been filed in court on this case. Heavin stated at the convention that he had won all the hearings and he tried to dismiss the lawsuit as if the lawyers would be the only ones to see money. He has lost his mind on this as it is a no brainer if you check the facts of the case.
At one time, and I think it was a link on this website, I found a list (pdf) of all Curves for Women that had either CLOSED or was sold since their opening. But I have been unable to find that list again.
Do any of you know what I’m talking about and how I can get to it again??
Unhappy & Disgusted & Disenchanted with Curves & the Heavins…(they are such braggers!!)
Here’s the link:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/curvesexzees0408.pdf
It’s posted on this post, along with the Curves disclosure doc.:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/2008/06/curves-for-women-ufoc-dated-march-2008/
I WAS A CURVES MANAGER IN AUSTRALIA, AND I HAVE SEEN THE LADIES GET REALLY BORED WITH THIS PROGRAM. WE IN AUSTRALIA ARE NOT FAR BEHIND YOU, IN THE USA, CURVES OWNERS ARE NOW SELLING, THEY ARE SELLING AREAS EVERYWHERE NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE IF YOU LOSE ALL YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY, I THINK A DOCUMENTARY ON THIS SHOULD BE AIRED ALL OVER THE WORLD, ITS A GOOD CONCEPT BUT JUST MIS MANAGED
I HAVE STARTED MY OWN LADIES FITNESS CENTER, I HAVE FRANCHISED IT AND ITS DOING REALLY WELL, I CARE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO BUY ONE OF MINE.
ALL I CAN SAY IS SEND EMAILS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW : STOP BEFORE YOU BUY :
I am in the same boat as the rest of you! They are doing the same thing with us.. we closed this past Wednesday.. the town was so small that a Curves should have approved it.. there is a prison there and the stupid city that they are included the prisoners as part of their population.. so we opened with their approval thinking we were going to do awesome and as with everyone else it started going down hill over 2 years ago.. we have been open 4 1/2 years and just can’t do it anymore.. all of our credit cards are maxed to the limits and we did our best.. I love the people I have met and friends I have made but this is ridiculous.. Curves is making their millions why aren’t we? I’m so sick of their fees and you owe us this and that.. like everyone here has said Howard is supposed to be a Christian? Why doesn’t he understand that peoples lives are getting ruined by his fees? Haven’t we had enough punishment when we have sacraficed so much? The economy should be telling him something when the franchisees and members are dropping like flies! We just got the paper saying we owe them the 10K.. we are right along with the rest of you.. if I had 10K don’t you think I’d be in business right now? DUH.. you know what really makes me mad is they get their money.. now popcorn sales, cereal sales, curves bars etc and we are all suffering.. I haven’t had a paycheck in 2 years.. I did my best.. I gave my all.. and now to find out you want 10K? Are these people for real? I will never ever in my life own nor participate in any franchise ever again.. thanks Howard for teaching us that the hard way… you are NO Christian.. you are a greedy jerk that got way over his head and doesn’t give a crap about all of us who believed in your dream.. God will get you for this! Oh and Diane don’t think we forgot about your better than everyone attitude.. you are just as guilty! You are both going to hell for all of the good hearted people you are trying to screw to the wall.. thanks for nothing!!!
Sorry the town was so small that Curves should have NEVER approved it.. ooops!
If everyone did their homework before they bought a Curves franchise, you would have discovered that the industry only has a life expectancy of 2 – 4 years depending on the location and population that you opened in. I got into Curves in 96′ and got totally out in late 99′. The writing was on the wall before I decided to invest in this and I opened 12 locations. I did Very well in all my locations but i knew that women in general get bored easily after a period of time. Also when I was involved, there weren’t tons of women only fitness business out there. Now, they’re everywhere. Whoever still owns a Curves should have had an exit plan before they bought in.
Mitch,
I am not opposed to Curves ensuring that we follow ‘the rules’ and to take some sort of action against those who are in violation of them; i.e. advertising in other franchisees territories or making payments to the other clubs when a member transfers. However, I am not sure what they can really do about it anyway. Many franchise agreements may not have some of the things Curves now wants to ‘mandates’ us. Additionally, I am not really sure if the remedy is there either if one violates the agreement.
Regardless, what is shocking or not so shocking depending on where one is on the fence is this: the $75 fee and the overall approach of Curves.
Why is Curves going to try to charge us $75 to monitor compliance? First off, what are they going to monitor and is that not the job of the area director in the first place? Two years ago Howard stated at convention that he was going in increase the number of Area Directors and that each club would be visited by these AD 4 times a year. Well, not sure about the rest of you out there but in the past two years my clubs were never visited by any employee of Curves. Therefore, the way I see it, Curves is not fulfilling there own promise and now they want to charge me for doing something they never did in the first place. Also, let us do the math here again shall we. At the end of 2007 there were 7100 clubs in the US and Curves is contracting (shrinking) at about 10% a year. That would leave is with about 6400 clubs by the end of 2008. At $75 for 6400 clubs that would leave Curves with revenue of $480,000. Think about this people – Do we want to pay Curves $480,000 for something they were suppose to do in the first place?
If that does not make you red in the face, you really need to think this though. We pay Curves a franchise fee each month (this is part of that so called monitoring), an advertising fee (I never seen where this month goes each month) which should be about 15 million dollars (for the advertising fee only) from the US clubs alone. We also pay monthly licensing fees for Go Figure which is owned by Curves (whose support on the phone is worse the horrible). And we have to go through the wholly owned subsidiary “Ideas in Action”, which products I can easily find cheaper elsewhere. Don’t get me wrong – I am a capitalist. I do not mind paying a fair price for product or service. What I am opposed to is overpaying for a product or service, or getting substandard products or services. This is exactly what we are all getting from Curves these past few years and complaining by us has not fixed it.
Howard should rather look for ways to improve upon failing business model for us franchisees’. In this manner we can generate revenue so that we can pay out franchise, license and advertising fees. Furthermore, we can then also sell more Curves products that will generate more revenue for Howard. This of course is hard work and will take time. The easier course for him is to generate revenue streams that will generate more cash for Curves immediately. We have seen this before, though product promotions (which we do the work), Howard’s book, deals with General Mills, deals with Avon and now though additional fees billed to us.
Messages to Howard:
There is a recession in case you don’t read the newspapers, watch TV and listen to conversations at the local dinner. Recession means less disposable income for the masses. That means to you, Howard, there is a decline in Curves membership and an escalation of clubs closing. From your own documentation, Howard, 2007 alone saw a closure rate of 8.5% in the US alone while the stock market INCREASED in value by almost 8%. This year’s closure rate is going to be appalling if we use this year’s loss of 33% of the market as an indicator to the health of our economy. I am sure you saw some of the numbers already, please don’t insult our intelligence by ‘spinning’ the facts.
Rather than focus on generating more revenue streams focus on refining the business model and help your franchisees weather the current economic storm that we are facing. Surly you can afford this given that you have made in excess of 60 million dollars in 2005 along.
Finally remember this Howard: “Pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered”
I will see in you court.
To Guest in CO–
Do I have your permission to post your message on the Yahoo Curves Owners group and the Yahoo FA group also? Not the message to “Howard”…..only the first part about the revenue he will collect from the $75 monitering fee, etc.
Thanks.
Connie,
If you repost on there, repost up to, but not including the parts:
“Finally remember this Howard: “Pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered”
I will see in you court.”
The prior messages are rather important in my opinon.
So it seems there are an amazing amount of people that have lost everything emotionally and financially because of CI. there smart equiptment is junk It does not work properly . This was another scam to get money from owners. All they do is force owners to buy more and more products. How many of you are stuck with products you cant sell. how many have dying curves on every corner . They play onwners against one another. This was supposed to be a christian company. Thats a a sick joke.They dont stand behind owners and they lie like rugs. My experience has been awful like so many others. I have been told judgement day is near with all the lawsuits pending CI will be bankrupt also. Then justise will prevail. Those of us that got stuck with this company will also prevail a supreme courts will also be involved and restitution will begin possible jail time. I have been researching this for a while now. UN fortunatly their are still believers of this cult. They need to open their eyes and listen add up how much they have lost and come aboard with the majority, pass these writings on to every curve owner you know and see what happens. You know what they say in america majority rules Curves your done. This is not a real franchise. The real ones follow there own rules, It is how good businesses are made and then they are around for ever> CI are theieves and all that associate with them all in coporate should have to anwser as well. I saw diane on the news last week she looked alittle stressed, Ask yourself how much are you now in debt, How has business practises changed Do franchisor stand up for what is right or do they only care how much money they can make from you. Will they sell to anyone that breathes.Look around you are they closing by the dozens. If the anwser is yes then join us in this good fight and get your money back from this thief. we will prevail unhappy about Curves INternational
I have been a curves fitness rep for six years working with my Mom there for four years now . Come to find is for sale and the owner is offering us to take over the club and make payments later on if we can get more members . I love Love ehat I do at curves and I feel really wishy washy my parents would be buying with funds they survive on and well the other catch is all the other coworkers would have to be let go and if we dont go for it we are out of a job ! Its not fair to the faithfull hard working employees like my Mom and I who found a job they rock at and now what are we going to do .What can be done for those like my Mom and I ? Anything I have two kids one in diapers and i enjoy the extra money i earn even though its only $100.00 it helps us get by. This sucks ! I’m very uneasy about this I dont feel confident about the purchase of curves by my loving Parents! As much as it has always been my dream to have my own Curves from what i’ve read here sounds like a bad dream a nightmare! I hope my Mom and I can find another Job we both enjoy. Thanks Mandy
Is anyone aware of how many franchises are open now? and has anything else been said by corporate of the $75 fee??
Mandy, If you love your parents, DO NOT let them invest in this scam, It will be a giant loser. That is why they are giving it to you so they can get out of all those fees they dont tell you about. Find another job.Walk away for your babys sake and for your parents.
Mandy,
You sound like a sweet young person and I hope and prey for you. But Mandy if you and your mother end up buying that curves not even the pope could pray enough to save you from the biggest mistake of you life. don’t walk away RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. My advice would be to look at a pet grooming business as they seem to be very strong and profitable which your curves won’t be. Good luck and let us know how things work out Mandy.
THERE ARE SOME HERE ON THIS SITE THAT DON’T BELIEVE EVERYTHING IS THAT BAD WITH CURVES. WELL FOLKS IT IS AND FOR THOSE WHO WOULD QUESTION THAT WHY DON’T YOU PROVE IT TO YOUR SELF BY DOING THE RESEARCH ON THE LAWSUIT. HERE IS WHO YOU NEED TO CONTACT.
FEDERAL COURT
U.S. CLERK OFFICE
800 FRANKLIN ROOM 800
WACO TX. 76701
254-750-1501
CASE OR DOC # 07′ CV’ 048
YOU CAN CALL AND REQUEST ALL DOCUMENTS REGARDING THE CASE AND PROVE TO YOUR SELF THAT HEAVIN IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH TO THE CURVES OWNERS. SEE YOU IN COURT REAL SOON HEAVIN
I purchase 2 curves a year ago december. I was scammed by the prior owner and mccord brokers! I wanted to purchase just one of the curves, but the prior owner and mccord made me buy the 2. They made the member numbers look like the clubs were making money. In july 08 I had to close one of my curves, since it was costing us $3000 per month out of our personal monies. Curves waived the 10k fee for me. However with all the money i pay out, legal won’t help us anyway with getting out of lease or help with information to go after the rat that lied to me! The prior owner states he is a Christian, we trusted him since he lives in my neighborhood and attends the same church! I will never trust anyone again. I also found out that mccord broker is not licence in most states that requires real estate licences, he is making commission iilegally! I feel for most of you, i love the curves concept–but i don’t like the situation it has placed on my family. We have lost a lot of money purchasing curves. We are people who goes along with the Bible and sueing is not an option for us. I just pray daily that we will make it through this mess and that God will bless us. I know I can be a blessing to the members at the club! I will keep you all in thought and pray that God will bless all of you.
Hi Debbie.. I was just curious how and why they let you out of paying the 10K for the first club? We still haven’t figured anything out and I know they are going to put a lien on us for that fee.. but we can’t afford to send them the machines and I’m trying to find another Curves that wants them.. this bites! We just don’t know what to do.. like I said if I had 10K in the bank don’t ya think I would still be open? DUH.. so much for understanding our economy at this time.. thanks for being the great “Christians” they call themselves.. I’m still angry and depressed about it.. we just don’t know what to do or where to turn.. thank you for all your help!
Hi Debbie,
You are not the first to be taken by McCords and in all likely hood won’t be the last. I’m sorry to read about you problems with Curves but as you know by finding and reading these sites you are not alone. Any one who is selling a curves franchise should be very carefull picking a broker as McCords is not the only crooked one out there that is selling curves franchises. Most repticable brookers won’t even list curves franchises anymore. It’s such a shame that this is what it has come to and the only way to really set things straight is through the group action lawsuit. PAY ATTENTION OWNERS AND JOIN THE LAWSUIT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.
My story is unfortunate also. I had to file Chapter 7 -I closed one club this summer but was stuck in a lease at the second location for another 2 years. I was down to 65 members – faithful but could not increase it due to economy and I had a captured audience in a high rise. I had been told by Curves and McCOrd that they would not let someone buy it yet they told me to get rid of it and move the other one exactly 7 months earlier. So I closed the one by paying them and the other by filing bankruptcy. In my credit report I had not missed or had a late payment in 14.7 years. I went through chemo, radiation and surgery this year and still paid my bills. The high rise I am in had two major customers Bellsouth and CSX. AT&T bought bell south and I lost 109 members in 10 days due to layoffs, transfers and fear. It happened 8 months after I opened so the rest quit in Janurary. Then in Janurary the second blow came when CSX put in their own gym at 15 a month. I lost 68 that week – they all had been members exactly 1 year – not much I could do about that. One thing people don;t realize is that this CLUB is 1.3 miles from the resale I bought that I had been a member of. She had 1000 members at one time and had barely over 100 when I bought it but I thought I could get them back – not knowing that when a club is that bad (previous owner fought Curves International over alot of things) that you never recover from that kind of history. The second CLub was in my territory and I was really hoping to get a break on the fee but they said it was a new territory because of the bridge between them (you could see the clubs from each other). The second club never took off and I had to wok hard to keep getting new members in a downtown environment – I was down to 48 members with 3700 rent for 18 months. I also had the unfortunate issue of my first club was flooded twice and had to rebuild twice in 2 weeks. The area director told me to do the right thing and every member who had not been in in 30 days or we could not get ahold of should be cancelled since legally I had broken the agreeement for being closed 15 days total in a 1 year period. I rebuilt in record time – all new carpet, paint, computer’s, extreme professional cleaning etc. When I cancelled all the members and got under 80 – I never recovered – I was operating at a 2500 loss each month from then on until I closed the next June. I still had 3 more months on the lease but I left with no bills. When I was rebuilding the second time – I was called on my cell and told to just move it and close the downtown own. (I quote ‘ We never thouht the downtown one in that city would make it?” They let me purchase alot of extra equipement as I was under the impression they thought it was a good idea. When I quoted the executive to my area director I was called back and told that comment was from a friend not a Curves International representative. I did not know that person was my friend….The downtown’s one losses were more that 3500 a month for 24 months and with all the medical expenses this year – I gave up. It kills me that even though I only ended up with two creditors (Curves and lease holder) I had to file Chapter 7 to get rid of them as Curves now is saying I abandoned it….. I am so glad I did not go to the SMART I would have lost even more. They called me and tried to get me to go to SMART for 8 weeks. I was harrassed at the 2007 convention and that is a book in itself. Well my life is starting over. 320000 spent in 3.5 years with nothing to show but a Bankrupcy – as everything belongs to the trustee now. It was a dream that failed.
Hi Dawn,
I am so sorry to hear about your loss and your health.. I hope at least your health is better.. bless your heart for trying so hard.. I am also glad that I didn’t do the SMART equipment.. we could never afford it.. the town was so small I had no real competitors till another gym came in and was 29 a month when we were 34.. it was a 24 hour gym and that got the attention of some members… whatever.. I’m glad we are done with all the bs but I’m worried what’s coming next from Curves Int’l… did you get out of paying that 10K fee? What did you do with your equipment? We haven’t done anything as we have no idea what to do.. we have no money to send it back to them and my only hope is to give it to another Curves but most of them are already full with equipment.. and I agree.. my dream failed miserably and now I’m worried what’s next.. any advice you could give me I would appreciate.. thank you! I hope you have a very healthy new year hun! Happy Holidays!
To all Curves Owners,
It is time we take our complaints about Curves to another level. All owners who are posting here should file a complaint with the BBB in their area and file a complaint with the Attorney General of their state. Than they need to go to the Federal Trade Commission web site and file a complaint with that federal agency also. Here is the link for the FTC http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/consumer.shtm. Just maybe Howie will get the message that it is time to change the way he operates his business.
For those that read my story above. Yes I paid Curves to close one and asked to close the other one for the same fee 14 days later. They said I could not close at that fee I must sale it. Yet In January John McCord told me Curves would not let anyone buy it. In fact I was told that more than once. So I was truly stuck with it. My equipment belongs to the trustee and 11 from the previous club was donated. I finally go to court next week and can you belive it – since I have a job I have to buy all my personal property back (to give to Curves) down to my tooth brush and since I had 14000 in medical expenses over what insurance paid and busines loss I was to get a tax return and the bankruptcy court is siezing that for 2008 – so a 59000 business loss is an asset the next year when you file ….
The only good thing is I am cancer free….just not free of giving CI $ yet
Dawne.
I was truly touched by you story and am saddened by what you have had to go through with your curves experience. You are not alone as many of us have had similar experience’s and for a lot of owners the nightmare is not over yet. It is nice to hear that you are cancer free and god bless you and your family. When I read or hear of nightmares such as these I often think back to a play I saw on broadway called Annie. There is a song that goes through my mind which I believe the tytle is “The Sun Will Come Out Tomarrow”. In our case it may not be tomarrow but it will come out and I truly believe it will it will be sooner that later. Thank you for your post Dawne and again God Bless you.
I would like to get information on a class action lawsuit if possible. Thank you.
Please contact me and my wife. We have lost over $150,000 actual money and lost the opportunity for another $150K. We would like to know what we can do to help the group effort.
Curves franchise owners:
What do you think of Curves partnering with the aggressively anti-gay American Family Association (AFA)?
Is this a good use of advertising dollars, or is it playing with fire? Comments encouraged here:
http://www.franchisepick.com/curves-for-women-anti-gay/
Regarding the Curves promotional partnership with the anti-gay American Family Association, Becky Frusher, Director, Corporate Communications, Curves International, Inc. has posted her response here:
http://www.franchisepick.com/curves-for-women-anti-gay/
Important message to all Curves owners.
There is another site that all current owners of a curves franchise needs to be aware of. The site was set up by Curves using our advertising dollars so we all need to use it. It’s intent is to allow owners to converse with other owners and to share ideas. It is a good site if you are looking for ideas on how to save your club or just have questions for other owners. Here is the link http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/curvesowners/?v=1&t=search&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=group&slk=1
Please go there to check it out and voice your opinion on the current posts and voice your concerns. This site is strictly for owners.
To all past and present curves owners
It is time for all past and present owners of Curves franchises to stand up and file complaints against Curves International and Gary Howard Heavin. I’m sure we can all agree that this company is in serious trouble with all the club closures and while the economy certainly has hurt our business the main set back is how the company is being run into the ground by Gary Heavin and his co-hearts. It should be obvious to all owners that the only way this will change is if we take action as a group. Some owners have been talking about a boycott of the monthly franchise and advertising fees that we pay. While that will certainly get their attention if enough of us follow through we can accomplish it even faster if we all file complaints with the BBB in Waco, TX, the BBB in your area, the Attorney General of your state, the Attorney General of the state of TX. and the Federal Trade Commission. I have included web site addresses where you can go to file such a complaint. Please do so ASAP and lets see how Howie handles the complaints.
http://www.bbb.org/
http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml
Another sad Curves story
http://www.mykawartha.com/news/article/36701
The story Wipedout linked to above is sad but very interesting.
The couple who owned the Curves lost $100K. They tried to sell for a year, then closed. They brought a potential buyer to Curves and claim Curves cut them out of the loop. Curves has the right to sell the location now, not the franchisees.
Members claim the franchisees spent their prepaid fees and even cashed checks after they had closed. The franchisees blame CI for not allowing them to sell and thereby repay their members.
Are the franchisees any more ethical than the franchisor? They have no qualms about dumping their loser business on the next sucker, do they? And if they cashed membership fee checks AFTER they closed, do you think they’d repay members if they got, say, $20K for their store? I doubt it.
Seems like CI has no problem selling a failed location that maxxed at 120 members without even looking into the viability of the location. Seems like a swell bunch of folks all around.
Listen there are bad apples on every grocery store shelf and it’s a shame but from my experence most of the curves franchise owners are a decent group of people.. Two wrongs don’t make a right and if this is true shame on both the franchisor and the franchisee. In this case without knowing the all circumstances I would still give the franchisee the benifit of doubt but I certainly wouldn’t believe anything the franchisor says as I know Howie can’t be trusted. His actions and words have proved that time and time again.
My Curves (two of them had a total ot under 100 members) since Curves told me to cancel anyone who had not been in that I could not get ahold of due to the flooding. I was closed 6 and 7 days total. Curves and MCCORD said they would not approve any buyers – but they would only let me pay to close one the other one which they absolutely said “we never thought this one would work” – 14 days after I closed one they claimed I only had the option of selling the one they had told me 6 months earlier they would not approve a buyer. They gave me no choice but to file bankruptcy. It’s really sad. 8 Curves in our area have closed. The rest are in trouble……They have not even had a good Januray – I am so glad I am done. Once I am done paying out required Chapter 7 assets to the courts – CI can no longer get any of my $. YEA there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it is not a train.
PAST AND PRESENT OWNERS,
Don’t forget to send your complaint letters to the BBB in your area as well as waco Tx. and your states attorney general as well as TX. and the FTC. Here are the links that you can go to to file the complaints.
http://www.bbb.org/
http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml
Could someone answer this for me. Should I or should I not pay the closing fee they are demanding. I am now down to $2,500 to settle the closing of my Curves. I do not have the money to send them and if I did I do not want to give them one more penny. I am $85,000 in debt which I will be paying on until I’m very old (hopefully I live!). I was advised to join a class action suit by a business owner friend. Can someone help that has been through this? Thanks
I would say not to send them another cent! But you should decide for yourself after reading this.
We closed our club in August. Curves demanded $10,000. We refused and they lowered it several times (down to $6,000) and we still refused.
Next legal sent us a letter demanding over $42,000 for future franchise fees and future advertising. We sent a letter refusing to pay that. Look above and read: CA Ex-owner on October 16th, 2008 for more details – that’s our story. Then look above at the answer of what could happen: unhappycurvesownerz on October 25th, 2008. (He is an extremely informed person on this subject)
So far, we have not heard back from them. It’s been since October that we sent our last letter to them and it’s only been 4 months, so we don’t know what, if anything, will happen. We are hoping that is the end of that, as we are just like everyone else – we are in debt for a huge amount of money that we will be paying off for a very long time! Read the many stories above and become familiar on what options you have such as the group action lawsuit. Know that you are not alone!
Carrie,
That charge for closing will not hold up in Tx court so why would you pay it? They are just trying to get more money from you. It is just greed on their part? I wouldn’t send them a dime not one dime. Also the suit is a group action not class action and your friend is right you should join and you should also send complaint letters to the BBB, and the attorney general of your state as well as TX. Also send a complaint to the federal trade commission. If you will look at the previously posts it gives you the info you need to file. Please do this at once.
I closed my Curves Dec. 30, 2009. Curves reduced the closing fee to $3000 and then in Jan. they reduced it to $2000. I told them I did not have the money to pay them. I not working and I had surgery on Jan. 19. I now have received a legal paper from them that I have to pay them over $28000 in franchise fee and advertising fees. Please forward this to Robert Lay and unhappycurvesownerz
Thanks
I would like to find out what the cost is to join the group action lawsuit. Also I would like to get in contact with Robert Lay, how can I do this.
Hi my parents and i took your advise and did not except the curves franchise being offered to us for free. Now the sad part it did sale and now after six years of being a great worker i’m being told my hours there are up for grabs to all the employees and same has happend to my Mom . Now what ? My Mom really got hit hard her hours taken that she spends on health care . Is there anything that can help us? My Mom does not have a whole lot of work exspierience has been a very reliable curves rep all the way around . Anyways Curves hurts lots of folks thought maybe we could get some advise . Be well,Mandy
Betty, Send your email address and phone number to Sean at this site and he will forward it to me. asap so I can explain the options you have. thanks
Mandy,
I’m so sorry to hear about you and your mothers problem but I do believe you made a good decision not to take the curves club on as the new owners will in all liklyhood fail. I need to know more about your situation so please send Sean an e-mail at this site with your phone number and he will forward it to me.
Send email forward requests to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com
Another sad story of a failed Curves club. January 2007 is the same month that our Curves took a serious nosedive, too. We lost nearly 100 members that month and never recovered.
http://www.milannews.com/stories/031909/loc_20090319005.shtml
So many sad stories, and sadder because some of them were preventable. The Curves story just points out the need to perform one’s due diligence, or what’s called “validation” in the industry.
My website offers resources including questions to ask before buying a franchise.
Looking at a new business is always exciting. However, one should never fall prey to “top franchise listings” or similar hype. And most importantly, as in all negotiations, one must be able to walk away if the deal just doesn’t add up.
Dennis Krieger
Here’s a 400-member Curves that couldn’t stay afloat during this Great Recession . . .
http://www.azcentral.com/community/ahwatukee/articles/2009/03/26/20090326ar-curves0325.html#comments
Go to McCord Business Brokers and see how few listings they currently have of Curves for Sale.
For example, the For Sale by Owner listings for Florida used to fill the whole screen in February. Today there’s only a handful left.
March 30, 2009
I am evidently getting ready to face my real nightmares, concerning my closing of my Curves. I am at the threat stage with them and have not agreed to any amount yet. Mostly because I have nothing left. I am closing in two weeks. I gave it all of my money and my best shot the past six years. I do not believe Curves is the only blame, I am sure the failing economy didn’t help. I am just confused about whether or not to agree to a settlement with them or not. I am hearing they will still sue me even if we agree to an amount. I wish I had some answers, even though I have no money left to give anyone. I really don’t know what to do next. Also there is another club in my small town, just six miles down the road, so at least my members have someplace to go if they choose so. How can they hurt so many people financially and get away with it? All we wanted was to work hard and make a decent living, totally impossible with two clubs in our area!! We haven’t even broken even in three years. I hope I find some answers soon.
Melissa,
Please send ADMIN (unhappyfranchisee[at] gmail.com) an email with your email address and phone number and I will contact you asap. I have helped over 800 owners get through this process and you are not alone. Do not pay curves any money or sign anything before you talk to me. Unhappy
Dear Unhappy..
I need some help with Curves trying to collect money also.. what do I do? Please help.. we haven’t been contacted since the first threat of 10K.. we didn’t respond cause we are lost on what to do.. thank you for any information you can give me!
I would offer what you can pay just to get it over with. That is what we did. I was just ready to have it done and over with. They will probably take it if they are hurting enough!
Sheila,
Again send Sean at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com an email with your phone numberasking him to forward it to me and I will be more than happy to call an explain what your rights are and how to proceed.
Here’s a Curves tale that sounds promising, until we find out the “Health Challenge” mentioned in the article has added a whopping TEN MEMBERS to this Curves, and membership is now at 230 since it first opened in 2005.
Who can make a profit – or break even – with only 230 members?
http://www.auroranewsregister.com/Stories/HealthChallengehelpsboostnumbersforexercise/tabid/515/Default.aspx
“..I would offer what you can pay just to get it over with. That is what we did. I was just ready to have it done and over with. They will probably take it if they are hurting enough!”
I couldn’t help but respond to this outragous post which of course wasn’t signed. ARE YOU NUTS OR FROM CORPORATE. Your advise is not only looney but an insult to the many owners who have been ripped offf by Howie. Don’t pay them a thing, not one dime, do you hear me NOT ONE Dime. You don’t owe them anything in fact they owe you for their deseptive, illegal, immoral, and unethical business tactics. Sue Sue and Sue them again for all they are worth. Send in complaints to the following:
http://www.bbb.org/
http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml
I’m not an owner, but rather a member, of 2 gyms right now, 24 Hour and a local club closer to my house. There is a Curves in the neighborhood.
Somewhere in CA, I think in the Bay Area, some fellow sued a women’s only gym for denying him membership, discrimination, and he won.
I thought that was right, because males can also benefit from the program, the 30-minute or so circuit type program. They have tried to replicate this in 24, but due to space limitations, usually, it gets kind of lost among the other equipment.
But here’s the main point: Open up to males and the membership will soar. It could still maybe be women during certain hours and men certain other hours, but men and women have no trouble mixing in 24 or any other club I’ve seen, Gold’s, Bally’s, LA Fitness, LA Workout, and so forth.
If this CEO Heavrin you all are writing about has any sense, which he apparently has not, he will go co-ed and keep his franchisees in the black.
I did not sign my name because I do not want Curves coming back to haunt me. The contract that we signed when we opened Curves has everything and the kitchen sink. When I decided to close my Curves I did not realize that there was going to be a fee because I had not been open for five years. I kept offering a much lower settlement fee and finally they accepted. I think the concept of Curves is great and all of you that opened one at one time did too. You can bash my blog all you want but I am done with closing my Curves now and never had any debt along with it. I still work out at my local Curves and enjoy it. Good luck with your law suite.
I’m sorry if I offended you but it really sounded like you were a CI plant. I don’t blame you at all knowing as much as I do about Howie and how vindictive he is and has been. But just because you paid the closing fee don’t think you are out of the woods yet. There have been many posts from owners who did just what you did only to end up 6 to 8 months latter being sent a notice that they owed more money for closing. They even had signed a release that Curves demands that you sign when you close. That release is very one sided. It only prevents you the owner from suing Curves International not from Curves suing you. If you will check the different post on this site and the related sites you will see that this is the truth and that it is happening more often than not.
i’m g;ad to hear that you are still working out at Curves as we all know the benefits and believe in the concept. I wish you all the happyness and success with any endevor that your path in life takes and I’m sorry that you were taken as so many others have been by Howie. God Bles you and your family.
Alan,
Thank you for taking time to read all of our sad posts and for offering your input. Curves has been sued for discrimination in several states when it first opened in the late 90′s. I am not sure which states but I do know they paid a large settlement and lost the ablity to finance through SBA. That is why they changed their name from Curves For Women to just plain Curves around 2000. While I personnaly don’t think accepting men is the anwser some clubs back east are now accepting men and have even gone to 24 hour access. It is too early to see if the results are going to be worth it but will just have to see how it works out. Unfortunatly Howie has no common sense or for that matter any sense as you can tell from all the posts. You have a great day and again thank you for taking the time to read the posts . God Bless
In response to Allan. I am from the Bay Area. The suit was not against Curves. Men are allowed to join and in fact they have. But the system is specifically designed for the female body. The founders of Curves originated with co-ed and it didn’t fly.
This just in…Wellnes memberships that pay the Club owner $4.00 per visit, CI has just announced that they will charge each Club $1.00 per wellness member per month. CI claims that there are currently 200,000 wellness members country wide…nice raise for GH.
This is so typical of Howie and the way he run his business. Once againg the frachisee takes it in the you know what. And believe me its not a pleasent experence.
Just pulled the key out of my Club doors for the last time…sold every piece of equipment except Smart…Can’t get rid of it due to clauses in software contract staing that they have to test every piece, take apart, set up at new location for up front fees plus $100.00 an hour to do all this. So a Club that can not afford the $7000.00 plus to buy direct, can not take advantage of a big savings because MYTRAC will not honor warrenties or provide software support because they where not paid the couple of thousand more they would have made on the deal.
LOL what an experience…Thank God I have a good lawyer!
Hey–Another Not Cut Out–I like your attitude. Obviously having the Smart Equipment was not enough to bring the members in to join in mega numbers. I opted not to get it and glad I didn’t……just more debt when I have to close my doors. I believe in the Curves concept, but I curse the day I ever heard of Gary Heavin and decided to by a Curves franchise.
In what state are you located? Good Luck. And I hope Gary has to answer to his God about all the lives he has ruined.
Hey, it was very interesting to learn about the history of Curves in this thread. As I noted, I’m a member, not of Curves, but of 24 Hour Fitness and a local club, called oddly enough 2597 (the address), here in Southern California.
But I would join Curves if I knew it accepted men, as someone said above.
But regardless of that, here’s another idea that most of you probably already saw, and this will be done whether any of your entrepreneurs do it or not, and it’s only a matter of time: a hybrid workout/brain gym.
Check out the recent article in Wall Street Journal http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123819562420161343.html
Here’s one approach: You have a little bank of computers set to go online. As motivation for the members, once they finish their workout circuit, they get 1/2 or 1 hour on the computer, to check their email, do whatever.
Yes, a lot of people can do this at home. But guess what…a lot of people can’t. That’s why public libraries are so full these days: people going online at the only place they have access.
Meanwhile, their getting more fit on the circuit.
This is just one idea of combining brain work with physical work. Don’t worry, someone’s going to do it soon, if they haven’t already. So do it!
Another idea: A workshop combined with the gym. Few people these days have the space and/or funds to get done at home what they can do in a shared workshop. Yes, Home Depot et al. do offer some rudiments of this, but no one yet, to my knowledge, has put both physical fitness and handiness together yet. There is a tool club in the Bay Area, but that’s expensive tools, like lasers. Just a few tools to get household and automobile jobs done would do it for most.
What a come on for the average woman AND man!
To all Curves Owners,
I just heard the most out landish bull crap about Curves International and it is very important that we as owners stand up and be counted and express our opinion so that we can try to prevent this from happening. You maybe wondering what is it and I will tell you right now. There is an organization that is called the American Association of Franchisees & Dealers (AAFD). It is supposed to be a pro-franchisee advocacy group. However, it is obvious that this is not the case as Sean Kelly has been an outspoken critic of the way they “sell” their fair franchising awards to companies that want to offset & dismiss online criticism. Furthermore, owners, this group is giving an award as AAFD’s Franchisor of the Year to Curves International on April 30 of this year in San Antonio, TX. Unhappyfranchisee.com has started a new page to post our feeling on this at
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-aafd-names-curves-franchisor-of-the-year/ . You can go there to read all about it but we must do more than post there on that site. We all need to write e-mails to AAFD Chairman Robert Purvin informing him of the dishonest and unethical business practices used by Curves International. His e-mail is rpurvin@AAFD.org . Please e-mail him at once telling him about how you feel about Gary Howard Heavin and his dishonest, unethical and immoral business practices so we can put a stop to this ASAP.
As your emailed complaints will undoubtedly be disregarded, please also copy (CC) them to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com and I will publish them here using initials only.
But be advised… complaint emails sent to AAFD regarding Cuppy’s were forwarded to the franchisor. If you would like to post an open letter to the AAFD, feel free to post it at http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-aafd-names-curves-franchisor-of-the-year/ or email it to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com.
Curves is named AAFD’s Total Quality Franchising Franchisor of the Year.
Comments invited:
http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/curves-is-franchisor-of-year-say-what/
AAFD = All Available Finances Drained
Wiped Out: Funny
(unfortunately)
New post on failure fee at FranchisePick.com:
Curves International: You Failed? Pay up!
http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/curves-international-you-failed-pay-up/
Comments invited
ALSO: Is anyone involved with the Curves Independent Franchisee Association? CI is reportedly giving the Assoc. significant support.
Are you optimistic that the IndFA can bring about positive changes?
Why or why not?
I closed my Curves at the end of Dec. I have a oblique machine for sale. I’m asking $300 and you pay for delivery or pick up. Location is Colon MI. My email is dbpriest@peoplepc.com
Does anyone know if Mr Heavin is trying to correct these on going issues? Please give me your thoughts.
Heavin is trying to avoid insolvency. The first wave of group-action lawsuits against Curves is likely heading to trial in the coming months. And there’s a second wave after that.
It doesn’t appear that Howie has even addressed the issues and problems that are causing the unrest with the franchisee’s. In fact he has blamed the owners for all the closings and the high default rate on SBA loans.
( web site below) It has been rumored that all he has done is to have his lawyers rewrite the contracts to include the closing fee of 10,000 dollars and to have situations in the wording so that an owner could never sue. I don’t believe that any owner has seen the new franchise agreement as of yet but there are many 5 year contracts coming due very soon. Many owners feel that even more clubs will close because not many owners will sign such an agreement. Furthermore many owners are concerned that it will make them harder to sell than they already are.
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-gary-heavin-blames-greedy-3rd-party-resellers-for-franchise-failures/
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/
Does anyone know how the Curves outside the United States are doing? Are they having the same problems in their countries?
yes they are having the same problems over seas as we are in the states. Howie does not show any special treatment to any of the clubs. He is running them all into the ground because of his unethical, immoral, dishonest business practices. His ego and pinchant for hirering family members has led to the down fall of Curves.. Howie day in court is coming soon and he will have to pay up for the hundreds of owners he has ripped off………..
Wipedout,
What is the second lawsuit? Something resales can get in on?
The Curves story just points out what has been know by many about franchising for years. A franchise is not guaranteed to succeed. First one has to be in the right franchise. What’s that? Well, one that first and foremost fits your personality and then one with a proven business concept in the area it will serve, and last, a franchise system that is honorable, successful, financialy stable, and focused on one primary objective: making their franchisees successful. When the franchisee is successful, the franchisor will be too.
Dennis
I couldn’t agree with you more. The main objective of all successfull franchisor’s is to make sure the franchisee’s are successfull. In return the franchisor will even be more so but with curves since 2003 the home ofice has not cared about the franchisee. Just how much Howie can line his pockets with. What a shame. He always wanted to be in the record books and Howie will get there for being the worst womens franchise around and world wide. He will certainly be remembered for a long time and once he is done in the courts he will certainly be in the record books. but someday he will be acountable to ST. Peter and I just wish I could be there to see the look in his eyes whin he is sent to he——.
I am interested in joining the “group” lawsuit (or arbitration) against Curves International. I would like to find out who to contact. Thank you.
Victoria,
Send an email with your phone number and e-mail address on it to unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com requesting Sean to forward it to me and I will fill you in on all the lawsuits.
Unhappy,
What you say here is so true.
(The main objective of all successfull franchisor’s is to make sure the franchisee’s are successful)
I bought my club during this time. My club is here today because of what I’ve done. There was no support from Curves International. They should be held accountable for the resales that were sold at too high a price.
So many people are simply running out of money, which is due to the current overall economic situation. Everyone is affected. People aren’t buying like they were. If your club is teetering between the black and the red, just blame it on your unhappy childhood or Gary. Some of us take responsibility for our own success and keep going with a positive attitude. Some people just sit on their derrieres and complain to the bbb or anyone else who will listen.
Yes sw 90 % of the curves owners are going broke and some like you like to wallow in self pity. Grow up and admit it sw you have no clue and should have never been a curves owner. Some people when they see an injustice happening prefer to stand up and take a stand and fight so that others like you can rip the benefits. Howie is nothing but a crook and a dishonest human who has used Christianity to line his pockets with the almighty dollar. By speaking up and filling complaints owners are now being heard loud and clear and just because you are against the practice of speaking up why hold it against owners that do. If you were really an owner and not slime ball from the CI office of hell you would welcome the fact that many owners have had enough of Howie’s lies and false promises. Go head stick you head in the sand and swallow all the shit the Howie spews all day long. Howies day is coming real soon as the courts in Waco are tried of all his delay tactics and the trials are ready to start. He has no chance in court and will surly lose his shirt. So sw why don’t you just go back and crawl in the hole you came out of which of course is Howie’s ass.
‘Yes sw 90 % of the curves owners are going broke’
Please cite your source on this. Since you know so much, please tell me what percentage of these owners are re-sale buyers that over paid, how many are first time owners, etc.
Oh, and I guess since I’m doubting the almighty ‘unhappy’ I’m going to Gary hell too.
Mr, JD all you will succeed in doing is to bring from the bowels of the underworld…Carol Cross.
Dear unhappy
I wrote, “Some of US take responsibility for our own success and keep going with a positive attitude.”
And you write back, “some like you like to wallow in self pity.”
Some like ME?
CAN YOU READ?
You said, “some of us stand up and take a stand and fight so that others like you can rip the benefits”
You are not benefiting me.
You sure do sound mad, unhappy.
I take responsibility for my own success. YOU blame Gary
Go ahead and blame Gary. I’m sure he will be ok.
R U sure all your unhappiness doesn’t stem from your unhappy childhood, unhappy? Never mind-I’m sure it’s all Gary’s fault.
don’t worry. be happy!
lol lol lol lol ,lol lol
Have a great day, unhappy!
i’m sorry to see the name calling type of behavior. It’s much more productive to read peoples personal experience.
I had to close one of my curves franchises and am fighting to keep the other one open (for both my sake and the members). I’m fighting economically and i’m fighting Curves International. it’s so sad that they can’t be more cooperative.
Most recently they sent me a legal notice warning me to stop using the Curves name. Could it just a formality from the processing of paperwork related to the franchise i closed (‘abandoned” is their term)? Or are they directing me to close the other franchise too? I’m sure it is just a formality, but it feels more like a kick in the stomach. It does reflect how impersonal their operations are. And when I read how they sue other franchisees who’ve been in my shoes, I worry.
I agree and apologize for my part. I will try to stay more positive the next time unhappy tells me that I eat someones s*** and came out of their a**.
Well at least my posts are getting some feed back and by the way I don’t apologize to anyone who will try to stick up for Howie, the most unethical, immoral, dishonest business person I have ever met. Oh and just to set the record straight sw I actually didn’t tell say you came out of their ass. My reference is that you have your head so far up his ass that you can see his true colors.
Now JD you certainly won’t go to hell for disagreeing with me but you will if you try to stand up for Howie and spew his lies and try to help him continue ripping people off. Now as for your question of where I get the stats for that statement. First off I am working with or been in contact with over 2500 franchisee who are all having financial problems but that is not the 90 percent of all curves but it is a good indication of what is happening to the clubs. Secondly we did a random survey of 20 percent of all known open franchisee that are listed in the new franchise disclosure document and we actually came up with a slightly higher figure of 94 percent with an error factor of 3 percent. Thirdly there was a survey done on the yahoo curves owners group site that came up with a much higher rate but the number of responses, which were very low, really doesn’t give it any credibility. If you are an owner you should by all means check out the yahoo group site if you haven’t done so already.
Now sw let me explain that I may sound unhappy and I go by the moniker of unhappy but in my day to day life I’m not so unhappy and have a smile on my face 99 percent of the time. Yes I get very upset when some idiot tries to stand up for Howie with no evidence on their side to document why they think he is such a good Christian. He is not a Christian by any means and has used that to sell his bag of lies to further his greed. I don’t have the time to show you proof of that but if you will take time to go through all the posts on this and related site you couldn’t help but agree. As far as the Curves workout you will never hear me bad mouth it as it does work and any owner who says differently is a liar. It is such a shame that the name curves is associated with the Heavins!!!!
To Another Curver,
It sounds like your nightmare is going to get a lot worse. You may need to have some legal advice in which case the lawyers in Tx that are handling most of the individual case against curves will be able to help you. If you decide you need to speak to one of them please send an email to Sean at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and he will forward it to me . Be sure to file a complaint with the BBB and the federal trade copmmission.
Curves franchisees should check out the comments on the Children’s Orchard posts:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/childrens-orchard-unhappy-franchisees-launch-site/
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/childrens-orchard-taylor-bond-a-franchise-mystery/
I found it interesting that the commenters there – just like here (at least unhappy) – focus all their energy on blaming one scapegoated CEO but can’t manage to come up with a list of specific things that they want changed.
Check it out and see the similarities.
Taylor Bond is their Gary Heavin. Everything is Bond’s fault – just as unhappy thinks its all Heavin’s fault. Bond is their antichrist. The root of all evil. But ask them what they want him to do – how Bond can make them happy – and they can’t tell you.
Just like here. You guys can bash Heavin, his religion, blah blah blah but can you come up with a tangible list of specific demands that you would help you survive?
What do you people want?
Want them to suspend or reduce royalties for a while?
Want them to give you control of the ad fund? Or let you spend your ad contribution locally on what you want?
Franchisees love to complain and bash their franchisor but when they are asked to propose solutions they change the subject – just like your group.
If franchisees don’t want to be treated like sheep, they should stop acting like sheep… unless you guys make your demands clear, and state what you want, all you’re doing is baaa-ing a little louder than the others.
unhappy will not be able to control himself – just watch. He will have to put the focus on Heavin and will somehow discount the need for a list of specific demands or improvements that will help stores survive.
How can Heavin give you what you want if you can’t say what it is you want? All you do is complain. That’s why franchisors stop listening.
Dear unhappy-
You said- “Well at least my posts are getting some feed back”
In my original post, I made no specific reference to you. If I had been giving you feedback, I would have addressed you by name.
But now I am addressing you by name and you can be so proud about all this “feedback” you’re getting.
Maybe you think that bad press is better than no press? I don’t.
You said- “I don’t apologize to anyone who will try to stick up for Howie”
I didn’t ask you for an apology, but I think I would have respected you for it- not that you care- and I think the other people here would have too. I did not stick up for “Howie” or anyone else. I said that I believe people should take responsibility for their own success and not blame other people.
You said- “Go head stick you head in the sand and swallow all the shit the Howie spews all day long.”
So you didn’t exactly say I do eat “Howie’s” s*** You just think I should and your are suggesting that I do?
You said- “So sw why don’t you just go back and crawl in the hole you came out of which of course is Howie’s ass.”
So, you did say that [I] should CRAWL BACK INTO Howie’s ASS, the HOLE [I] CAME OUT OF.
In your most recent post, you said- “Oh and just to set the record straight sw I actually didn’t tell say you came out of their ass. My reference is that you have your head so far up his ass that you can see his true colors.
So you’re using semantics to clarify your statement about saying that I came out of Howie’s a**, by explaining that you really said that I have my head up “Howie’s” a**?
That’s much nicer, thank you.
You also said- “If you were really an owner and not slime ball from the CI office of hell…”
So, you also called me a slime ball. (And I don’t work at the CI office, which doesn’t matter anyway.)
You said- “Howie is nothing but a crook and a dishonest human”
You said- “…owners have had enough of Howie’s lies…”
“Howie” may be a liar. and based upon your denial of the statements you made directly to me and then denied, what are you?
You said- “just because you are against the practice of speaking up why hold it against owners that do.
I’m not against the practice of speaking up. I “practice” speaking up all the time, which is why I posted in the first place. People speak up from every direction, unhappy, not just from the direction you’re coming from.
So unhappy, all I really have left to say is that I understand that you feel you’ve been wronged. It’s a bad deal for everyone-all of us.
“Howie” may be a really bad man. Then again, maybe he’s not. I agree with the things that Not A Victim wrote. And I think a lot of these financial problems have more to do with the economy than any one person in particular, including “Howie.”
None of this matters. What does matter is that we all stay level headed and take positive action. How can we move up if we stay so busy trying to take someone down.
It really might be a good thing for you to apologize to all the other owners (not me) for your potty mouth.
`sw
Ok I have two questions…
First, SW if you aren’t so “unhappy” with your Curves then why the hell are you even looking at this website???? Yeah that’s what I thought..
Second, instead of sitting here arguing your point with unhappy why the hell aren’t you running your Curves???? Ok that’s what I thought again.. if you don’t want to hear everyone’s complaints then stay off the website.. some of us are in deep debt and just needed to know we weren’t the only ones with problems.. have you ever heard of group therapy?? Oh that’s right your a PERFECT Curves follower! You must have a million in the bank by now from owning one right? Curves Int’l has no feelings for anyone but lining Gary’s pocket.. so if you don’t want to hear any of us then stay off the damn website.. we appreciate someone elses understanding of our problems.. thanks!
Oooops guess I have a potty mouth too.. Gee, are we still in America??? Freedom of speech right? Or is this Curves world? Where we have to be perfect like SW?? I think I will take America!!
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.
~ Goethe
I would love Curves to be everything it claimed to be and that the CI was a cool, informed and honest people.. I know I am. I am new owner that cries, wondering what the hell to tell all my cool gals whom love Curves. But busting the nut and growing the club is beyond my comprehension. I am smart gal…I am an experienced woman and nothing in the biz model is right… The true facts, I got later, that the average club is at 250 members is unbelievable.
I have spent 30k in the purchase, advertising, waco non sense camp and upgrades. I have 7 months in and have only grown from 190 to 220. This is sad… I can’t do it alone. I did a club assessment with my helper, and when I put in the mortgage she baulked say Corp doesn’t want real numbers just the ones they think matter…
In my area, one more just closed, that is 4 this year and the remaining gals who have been Curving for over 5 years, aren’t making it… The stress is outrageous. And yes, they all have paid way too much, big bucks…they won’t make it at this point…
The club camp was so frightening and fake and unsound biz practice. The human rights violated while I was there, left me depressed and ashamed to be partners with these scary yooo-hooos. They are insane, and honestly, as people I wouldn’t have a lunch with Diane, Gary, Cassie, fancy lawyer threatening us, or silly Nadia, with her blueberry bs or the robust AD running around like women prison guards. (yikes)
I have a prayer, Please God, take this great product from these hypocrites and let it rebuild under new management with good biz sense and a new model that works for the grater good. Truth is I hate that Curves such a viable product is suffering so much pain…from the owners, to the members, to the community…It hurts everyone when another one bites the dust.
What is the future of Curves, is Gary’s ego going to kill it??? How many more have closed to date????
Thanks for sharing your Curves….so I can make a decision about my future.
Well well well Sw they also say ignorance is bliss and you must be one blessful person cus your ingnorence is overwhelming you dumb ass. Give me your club address and I’ll send you some tissue so you can wipe the shit form your eyes so you will be albe to see again or is it that your blind to go along with being deaf and dumb.
Not a Victim,
If you would have read all the posts on http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/ you wouldn’t even make such an accusation unless you are working for CI… The problem with this franchise has been a direct result of how it has been managed (mismanaged) since 2003. You can read the reason for the law suit at http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-discussion-benefits-of-a-franchisee-lawsuit/ which should explain some of dishonest business practices that Howie has used thus causing financial hardships on the owners of a franchisee. Furthermore to my knowledge no one has ever bashed his religion as it is obvious to the majority of owners that he is not and never has been a Christian in any use of the word. His actions, behavior, and deeds have proven that time and time again. I don’t need to provide you with any examples as all owners have enough of their own real life dealings with him to know that is the truth and have voiced many of their opinions on the on http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/. Now you ask what they can do to make us happy. Well funny you should ask that because as far as I’m concerned Howies options at this point are few. It is obvious that the decline of Curves will continue until either Howie sells the corporation or files bankruptcy. This scenario has been contemplated by the lawyers and litigants in most of the group action lawsuits that have been filed against Curves International and Gary Howard Havein. While I’m sure most owners don’t feel this could happen considering the amount of money generated from all the franchisee’s it is not as far fetched of an idea that one may think. First off as most people know, who have been successful at one time or another, your income is relative to your expenses. In other words as your income grows so does your standard of living and your costs usually match your income level. When income starts to drop the standard of living is usually at a fixed amount and is very hard to lower without down sizing which in most cases is very hard to do. We do know that all Curves are having a very ruff time financially and many have had to close not only in the US but all over the world and it is anticipated that many more will be closing by the first of the year. While we can argue what the reasons are for all the closes the fact remains that they are closing at an alarming rate. This has had a profound effect on the income coming into Curves International at the same time that the group action lawsuits have gained traction and are proceeding in court with court dates being set up for the trail and hundreds of individual law suits being filed and coming to an end later this year or early next. While many have been settled out of court for settlements ranging from 10,000 to 30,000 dollars the remaining litigants so far have been unwilling to settle for such low amounts and have been willing to take it all the way to trail in hopes of receiving a 7 digit award. If these lawsuits are won by the litigants, there will surly be more group action lawsuits filed as there are many franchise lawyers who are considering doing just that to get their piece of the pie. Curves International and Gary Howard Heavin’s best solution would of course be to settle these lawsuit at a lower dollar figure an impose a gage order on them so that the litigants couldn’t disclose any of the proceeding or settlement amounts. If he decides to take them all the way and loses in court his options are very limited. He could try to appeal the decision but to do so he would have to put up a cash bond in the amount of the settlement which is doubtful that he would have that much cash readily available or to file bankruptcy. If he files bankruptcy their is president in other franchise cases where the courts would take over and hire a CEO who is familiar with franchises to protect not only the rights of the litigants but of the franchisee’s.
So any franchises that are upset and haven’t filed a complaint with the BBB of both your state and TX. and the Attorneys Generals Office of both States as well as the Federal Trade Commission should do so at once. Also it wouldn’t hurt to send a complaint letter to the attorney Generals Office of NV. Since it is a Nevada corporation.
unhappy: Hoorah for you!! More feedback; all just for you! Yippee!!
How can you expect to be taken seriously?
It’s too bad that you weren’t required to pass an intelligence exam prior to purchasing your club. If you had been, you wouldn’t be in all this trouble you’re in now.
Well (Comma) well (Comma) well (Comma) Sw (Period) they (They) also say ignorance is bliss and (so) you must be one blessful (blissful) person cus (because) your ingnorence (ignorance) is overwhelming (comma) you dumb ass. Give me your club address and I’ll send you some tissue so you can wipe the shit form (from) your eyes so you will be albe (able) to see again or is it that your (you’re) blind to go along with (as well as OR in addition to) being deaf and dumb. (Question mark)
I regret my last post and I apologize to everyone here.
“Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.”
~Robert Cuillen
why apologize sw we all know you don’t really mean it !!!!!!!
Hey sw are you a member of the CFA ? I’m running for office and I’d sure like your vote!! Can I count on it ? Maybe than you will see the cahnge we are all talking about.
Get the newist lowdown on who Howie and his friends are at this site
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-for-women-business-broker-slams-curves-franchise-and-franchisor/
Gary Heavin is an arrogant, self-serving, presumptuous, overconfident, pushy control freak. He lives his life on his terms and expects everyone else to live life on his terms too. None of these qualities necessarily make him a criminal; just a real asshole… More precisely, A REAL RICH ASSHOLE!
If a man could be sent to prison for being an arrogant, self-serving, controlling… asshole, then every major corporation throughout the world, including all government agencies from the White House down and in every country would have to shut their doors.
(Insert Name Here) is an arrogant, self-serving, presumptuous, overconfident, pushy control freak. He lives his life on his terms and expects everyone else to live life on his terms too. None of these qualities necessarily make him a criminal; just a real asshole… More precisely, A REAL RICH ASSHOLE!
If a person could be sent to prison for being an arrogant, self-serving, controlling… asshole, then every major corporation throughout the world, including all government agencies from the White House down and in every country would have to shut their doors.
I am horrified reading all of these sad stories! What an incredible mess and such unfortunate outcomes for some many people! I am truly shocked to see so many people financially ruined by this! I bought a Curves resale with a partner a couple of years ago. We have done over a year of due diligence and thoroughly researched the investment with the assistance of several experts and in the end, we were just sure we could make it.
We finished camp in Waco and shortly after that, things began to unravel. We just couldn’t seem to get ahead and out of the red. We had such high hopes to turn things around but had a very high rent which was our albatross. Members came and went but we never could get ahead. I could see this had been a mistake, at least for me. So, I sold my half of the business to my partner several months into it. I guess this was one of the smartest things I ever did!
Good luck to all of you and I hope you are successful in getting back at least some of your losses. I will pray for that!
Thank you Krista for your post and you are definately one smart women to have sold your half of the business. How is your partner doing and is she still open?
She is still open but has had it up for sale for several months now. Unfortunately, we didn’t part as friends and do not stay in touch. I know she converted to the smart system but she has to be losing alot. She bought another Curves and went smart also with it. I don’t know if going “smart” was a good decision or not. The other resale location may be making a small profit as the rent is considerable lower.
What happened to McCord? I cannot pull up their website anymore and wonder where those resales are posted now.
The curves smart was just another one of Howies ideas to make more money for himself as it does not work and was sold as new technology but in reality is over ten year old. Only about 40 percent of the clubs have smart and almost all of them complain that it has not helped at all. I don’t know what happened to McCords but will check into it and will post when I find out. Many lawsuits against them as they were fraudulently taking clubs over and selling them by having the owners singing a power of attonery over to them and the owners would receive nothing for the club, It was owned by Howie’s brother so I’m sure you get the picture.
Unbelievable!
I just went to Mc Cords site and it came up for me so try here and you should get it up. http://www.mccordbusinessbrokers.com//index.asp?choice=listing check out how many clubs are for sale for less than 10,000 and many for 1 dollar.
Hew sw where did you go? Did you crawl back into the hole you came out of ? So long good bye and God Bless
thanks unhappy, I could not get it to pull up and can now.
What do we want, Not a Victim?
We want Heavin’s money. We want our lives and peace of mind back. We want compensation. He sold far too many franchises and oversaturated the market. We want him punished financially for doing so.
THAT’S what we want.
It doesn’t appear that Not A Victim is with us any more. Obviously he, she or it couldn’t take the truth.
Krista you are one of the lucky ones that’s for sure! Smart thinking getting out in time! I am having to file bankruptcy for over 65K.. and my business partner took all of the other debt.. he unfortunately can’t file for bankruptcy.. Curves is trying to get over 60K from him… we didn’t do the Smart technology.. we could never afford it.. after gas prices started rising I had so many members quit and it just snowballed.. the town we were in was less than 8,000.. it was terrible.. I put my blood, sweat and tears into it as I know everyone has.. Curves keeps getting richer and we keep getting poorer… I feel for all Curves owners.. thank you for your prayers Krista.. we need them!
Sheila,
Sory to hear about your nighmare with curves. It sounds like your partner may have a shot at joining the lawsuit to recoop some of his losses. Remember to file complaints with the following.
http://www.bbb.org/
http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml
New post: Happy Curves franchisee speaks out
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-happy-franchise-owner-speaks-out/
South African franchise owner says franchisees should stop blaming Curves & Heavins and take responsibility for their own decisions.
Comments welcome.
Your input needed here. Please read and comment:
Top 10 Ways to Keep Franchisees Happy? Share your Thoughts
I bought a resale 2 years ago , the person that sold it to us did not give us the correct numbers on the memberships it was low but after we deleted non paying members out it was a lot lower. But we slowly brought the numbers up but as soon as you get new members 3 or 4 quit you never get ahead. We have never made a penny of profit since we bought it and I work there to save on payroll ,we have had to use our savings every month to pay the rent or something now my savings is gone we dont even have enough to pay rent for next month,our lease is up sept 09 and I think we r closing .I am very scared of what we face with CI when we tell them.
Kim don’t let it wory you as there really is nothing to be scared of. The 10,000 dollar fee is iligal for them to charge you as it is not in any of the contracts but you need to send ADMIN an e-mail at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com requesting he send it on to unhappy and he can explain the prceeedures that you will be going through with CI and how to handle them.
If you are an owner of a curves franchise and are upset at the underhanded, unethical, immoral, and shoddy business practices of Curves International you need to go to this site http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/280/RipOff0280916.htm
and file a complaint. It may help someone else from making the biggest mistake of there life.
A friend and I bought a curves in a small town. From the beginning we were told untrue information from the seller. We have been struggling for almost 2 years and now we have decided to shut the doors. I might have one buyer however, I am not sure if she can come up with money. I am selling it for 1.00. I am not sure what is best. I would like more information on how to handle curves if we close our doors. thanks
I was thinking of buying a Curves until I read all of your responses. Why, if Cures is such a bad thing, has it been named “Francisor of the Year 2009″
Jennifer McTier says: I was interested in purchasing a Curves until I read some of the posts. If Curves is such a bad deal, why has it been named “Franchisor of the Year for 2009?
Jennifer McTier :
There are no valid franchise awards/rankings that we know of (Though FranSurvey.Com at one time seemed to be useful and well-intentioned). All are somehow driven by a self-serving motive. For Entrepreneur magazine, the 800 lb. gorilla of franchise rankings, it is ad sales and perpetuation of the franchise myth of great opportunities galore.
The 2009 Franchisor of the Year award was given by the AAFD (American Association of Franchisees & Dealers). This is the same organization that gave Cuppy’s Coffee – an outright scam organization – its highest accreditation and defended it despite tons of warning signs that they were pirates. Why? Because Cuppy’s was paying the AAFD. Once they stopped paying, AAFD “got religion.”
From what I understand, Curves International made a commitment to spend $250K or so funding the AAFD-sanctioned Curves franchisee association. Think that might have had something to do with it?
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-aafd-names-curves-franchisor-of-the-year/
Keep in mind that the very name of the award is deceptive. Since their awards are solely for AAFD member organizations, shouldn’t it be designated as “Franchisor AAFD Member of the Year”? The award implies they evaluated all franchisors and designated the winner as the best. In fact, the number of franchisors involved with the AAFD is quite small.
Be sure to also check out:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/
http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/curves-is-franchisor-of-year-say-what/
http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/aafd-quietly-suspends-cuppys-franchisor-accreditation/
Jennifer,
this is truly a fake award bought and paid for by Howard Heavin. the CFA is now charging 50 for each franchise to join the association and so far only 500 clubs or so have joined which is less than 5 percent of the clubs that are left open. Look around your area and you wil see that most of the clubs have closed.
Jennifer said she was thinking about buying a Curves. I hope someone will buy my Curves franchise. Not because it is such a great thing to deal with CurvesInternational (CI) but because the Curves concept is fabulous, and the clubs themselves do a huge service in the community. I have to sell mine because of going thru bankruptcy because of closing my second club. Otherwise, I was trying to hold onto my club. I wasn’t making alot of money (about $1500/month for 50-60 hrs/week of work) but working the floor is the best job I’ve ever had, and I find the workout itself the most successful way to keep my health problems managed.
Also, I pray we’ll see an improvement in the economy soon, and I think we’re starting to see more women come back to Curves. In my market, the boycott by Planned Parenthood in 2004 (to when?) hurt us badly. I think we’re getting far enough away from it that things are starting to improve. I wish I could wait another year, because I think I will see over 500 people in my club again. But I can’t wait. I’m hoping to find someone else who can.
As far as the purposes of this website, I agree that CI (and Heavin) have been cagey at best, and selfishly have made choices that hurt many franchisees: I agree that they shouldn’t have allowed me to split my territory and open a second club in my market when I was delirious with the height of my success (about 700 members and on a fast growth curve). I also believe that his self indulgent publicity stunts, that resulted in the boycott by Planned Parenthood, were truly harmful to many of us and shouldn’t have happened or been tolerated, regardless of any of our political beliefs.
But that situation seems to be under control now, and I am putting faith into the believe that if:
we are aware of -and make allowances for- CI and Heavin’s self-interested motivations, and
we can attract more women to the benefits of our system,
then
we can be successful again with our businesses.
I know that may seem too optimistic to those who have been most harmed by CI/Heavin’s selfish choices, but I am one of the many women who really truly rely on the Curves Club to provide me with a successful way to manage my health issues and I don’t know what I could do if they all went up in smoke.
Best Wishes to all of you.
You are all a bunch of whiners
Whiners, wow…how sad…This Curve controversy is not made up. it’s true! Curves success at this point is in spite of CI and Obi-Jaun Gary- gross…that fake smile, and those flashy pearly whites, yikes!!!
Don’t call people names, especially whiners, naive, yes, or even perhaps, over excited…but whiners, not so much…
There are a lot of Curve owners that are truly suffering, financially, emotionally, and physically, and they’re all great gals…it’s sad!!!
[...] a Curves franchise post on UnhappyFranchisee, Another Curver wrote 2009/08/16 at 5:40pm: I hope someone will buy my Curves franchise. Not because it is such a great thing to deal with [...]
Just curious. What did you think of the latest fireside chat?
It is typical of howard to blame the owners so nothing was new. The controversy over the hotel booking at convention and the price is another example of how curves is ripping off the owners. It’s a shame that the members of the clubs are the one’s who are really being hurt by this crook.
Today I went into the Curves where I’m a member and found out that they are closing in a week! No more notice than that! Worse, there is a “letter” to us members that the club will STILL be taking my money this month! I’ve got a message into the NV Attorney General http://ag.state.nv.us/ since there is no way this can be legal!
Oh, the club I belong to? Who owns it? Robert Lay!!!!! That’s right THIS Robert Lay!
I wish there was a way for me to post his letter, he’s got the nerve to post all this and then charge us for our NEXT MONTH while he KNOWS he is going to be closed! My friend just paid him a month ago for the ENTIRE NEXT YEAR! I wonder if she is going to get her money back?
Thankfully, he put up his letter to us and TOLD US to search for this page!!! Otherwise we’d have had no idea where to find him. Thanks! I’ve also followed your advice and complained about YOU to Curves. None of this should have surprised us. It was only a few weeks ago that he was YELLING at a visiting member calling her a f***ing b. She had to have been 55-60!
Erasing intelligent stuff against you? How many times will I have to post this before it doesn’t “disappear”?
member:
To address your comment and your accusatory email, your comment didn’t “disappear”
The first time someone posts a comment it is held for moderation and must be approved manually. Once they have been identified as a legitimate commenter (and not one of the automated spam generators that bombard our site continuously) future comments appear immediately.
When I checked the moderation queue this morning your two duplicate comments were awaiting moderation. I approved one. Your future comments should appear immediately.
Mr. Lay has no ability to moderate or remove comments on the site. I printed his story. Other than that he has the same commenting abilities that you now do.
There are other avenues you can pursue to try to get your money. Contact your credit card company or the bank to dispute the charge. AGs in some states have escrow accounts in place to repay members of closed health clubs.
Our site is focused on the plight of people who are losing their businesses, their homes, and their retirement savings. While your $29.95 monthly fee (or whatever it is) may seem like the world to you, you are putting your message in front of people whose lives are devastated and find themselves under the weight of crushing debt from which they might not recover. While your complaint may be justified, don’t be surprised if your righteous indignation is not met with the degree of outrage you think it deserves.
Be assured, member, if you find yourself unable to comment on my site it won’t be due to Robert Lay. It will be all you.
Sean, i’ve got to disagree with your assessment here.
What’s the difference between what this person is saying and what was happening on the LA Weight Loss (or their affiliate) issues that were covered on this website. Just as in the case of those customers, they paid for ‘nutrition’ bars or whatever they were and didn’t get the product for what they paid for. In this case, Robert took the money of members when I’m sure it was known to him in some capacity that he would be closing said store.
What’s the difference between what this person is saying and what was happening on the LA Weight Loss (or their affiliate) issues that were covered on this website.
A few differences:
First, UnhappyFranchisee.com never featured LA Weight Loss. That was on FranchisePick.com which is a little more general in focus.
Second, the LAWL people lost hundreds and thousands of dollars, not $29.
But the main reason is that none of the LAWL victims sent me a flaming email ranting about how I censored & deleted their comments.
I’ve been dealing with my site being hacked for a couple of weeks now and I’m a little tired of hearing how I deleted posts and comments because of bribes, intimidation, etc. which is nonsense.
JD you know I don’t regulate comments but I might make an exception in this lady’s case. Not based on her comment but on the email I got this morning.
Sean, thank you for being a great moderator, and having this site.
Also, thank you for your perspective on the member’s situation.
re the club closing but still drafting the members dues:
I can’t speak to the laws in the state of Nevada, but generally how it works with Curves in most states is that if there is another Curves within 25 miles of the one that is closing then the member’s membership is transferred there until their committment is met.
As far as the “notice” on how soon the club is closing, I can understand why there is only a weeks notice. We had 6 days notice, from our landlord, when I closed our doors. And I know another franchisee who held on as long as she could, and sadly, the police arrived to evict her and her business. Sure, we can criticize her, or we can be compassionate. It’s always a choice.
Best wishes to all.
Wait a minute here. The member is truly misinformed and is not telling the truth. I have been trying to post the letter that was given to each member as they came in to workout since the 15th of this month. I will post it over the weekend for all to see and that should clear up any misinformation that that particular member is referring to. First off it clearly states in the letter that the fees for September will be the last fees deducted from the members account . We draft on the 5th and the 20th of each month for that particular month.. The members have the choice of either date but it is for the month’s dues for that particular month. No where did it state that we would be deducting for October. Secondly all prepaid accounts have the option to either transfer to a new club or be refunded the amount they have on their account. They were all told this and third, most of the members knew that we had been thinking of closing for months.
I would like to thank you Sean for explaining to this member that I had noting to do with deleting her post. Furthermore we are not forcing any of our members to transfer as we have given them the option of getting a travel pass and the different locations which they can go to if they decide to stay with Curves. We are not forcing any of them to continue at another club but have left it up to them to make the choice. We even explained that the monthly dues should remain the same as they were paying us if they decide to go to another facility in our area and what to do it if the new club tries to up their fee.
Robert Lay
One more thing. In her post she says we were rude to a member by calling her a f+++B. Well she is correct on that but she forgot to mention that the lady in question was a traveling member who had been told 2 months before that she was barred from our facility. The reason she was barred was because she refused to use the equipment correctly after repeatedly being warned by myself and other trainers. She also did a weird exercise on the floor like a snake near the bathroom each time she came in. We had informed her she could not user the club but continued to sneak in and on that particular Saturday I just happened to be there. I let her work out but told her before she left she was to stop at the front desk when she was done. She became verbally abusive to me and was told to leave. She refused to leave and I got up from behind the desk and went to physically throw her out. As she ran for the door she called me a pr++k and I responded by calling her a f++++++ B and that if she ever came back into our club I would have her arrested. There were no members in the club at that time but I do have a witness to the whole incident who gave his account to the police which I called. if she had stuck around she would have been arrested. So dear member who didn’t have the guts to leave her name maybe you had better get the facts straight before you post such slanderous posts.
Robert Lay
I thought long and hard today about whether or not to respond to the moderators messages. But because we were referred here by Mr. Lay and other members and friends of mine will be here, I think it’s important that I do.
After posting my original message, which appeared IMMEDIATELY at the bottom of the comments portion, I came back a few hours later to find that it was no longer there. Having gotten no notice when I posted the original (or an e-mail) stating that the post would be initially removed/held and (re)posted after approval, I attempted to re-post it twice. I received a message to the effect that I was trying to post a duplicate message. Confused, and not knowing Mr. Lay’s relation to this site, remember, (HE told us to go here so I believed him to be affiliated with it) and wondering if HE had deleted my post from HIS page, I went to the contact us link at the top of THIS page and wrote the following to the moderator in private (he chose to make it and a modified version of his response public):
Is Mr. Lay allowed to remove any intelligent comments that disagree with him? I posted the below which was promptly removed. I tried to post it again, twice, and was told it was a duplicate. If he is claiming that what I posted is untrue, if you provide me with an e-mail address to send you his letter I will gladly do so. Since I do not know your connection with Mr. Lay and due to the fact that I’ve seen the way Mr. Lay treats people in person, see below, and he knows way too much personal information about me, I have no desire to give you a phone number or my name for him to look up in his Curves records. When you read the below, you will understand why I do not trust him. You may contact me through e-mail. Thank you. Here is the message I posted, why was it removed?:
I followed that with the post you see above (which originally did NOT have the “Erasing intelligent stuff…” line, that was added to the second repost attempt in frustration). This is the response I got from the moderator:
Too Tough Gal:
Thanks for your email.
Your post wasn’t removed. The first time someone posts a comment it is held for moderation and must be approved manually. Once they have been identified as a legitimate commenter (and not one of the automated spam generators that bombard our site continuously) future comments appear immediately.
When I checked the moderation queue this morning your two duplicate comments were awaiting moderation. I approved one. Your future comments should appear immediately.
Mr. Lay has no ability to moderate or remove comments on the site. I printed his story. Other than that he has the same commenting abilities that you now do.
That being said, you have came on my website, screamed at me and made unfounded and untrue allegations about your comments being deleted. You missed or disregarded the message that said your comment was being held for moderation. Do you really think the best way to complain about someone else being ignorant and disrespectful is by being ignorant and disrespectful?
A second reason you might want to tone down your rhetoric is that our site is focused on the plight of people who are losing their businesses, their homes, and their retirement savings. While your $29.95 monthly fee (or whatever it is) may seem like the world to you, you are putting your message in front of people whose lives are devastated and find themselves under the weight of crushing debt from which they might not recover. Your righteous indignation – while perhaps warranted – might not be met with the outrage you think is deserved.
There are other avenues you can pursue to try to get your money. Contact your credit card company or the bank to dispute the charge. AGs in some states have escrow accounts in place to repay members of closed health clubs.
But be assured that if you find yourself unable to comment on my site it will be due to your disrespect and/or lack of an apology and not because of Robert Lay.
Admin
UnhappyFranchisee.com
You will note significant differences to the response he posted here for you all to read. I did not “scream” at him, nor anyone else. Even in my original post –as angry as I was – I used caps sparingly to emphasize just a few key points (perfectly acceptable when bold or italics is not available), but I don’t recall “screaming” at anyone. He also states that I sent him a “…flaming email ranting about how [he] censored & deleted their comments.” As you can see from the e-mail I sent him I neither ranted, nor flamed and I did NOT accuse the moderator of anything, I ASKED if Mr. Lay was the one who removed my comment and could do so with any comments he found not to his liking. Seemed like a fair question to me. I also did not accuse ANYONE of taking bribed! To whom was I disrespectful? To the Admin? I don’t believe so. To Mr. Lay? By stating facts about the man who is taking members’ money for services he KNOWS he will not be providing? I don’t know how to answer that, is that disrespectful? Was I “ignorant” as to what had happened? Yes, that is why I went to the contact us link – to find out. To whom do I owe an apology? To Mr. Lay? “Sorry that I complained about you taking our dues when you know you will be closed.”??
Admin, to confirm what happened to me when I initially posted (that I did not “miss or disregard” any message notifying new users that their post will be delayed) I posted a brief “test” message earlier under a new e-mail address – as before, NO WARNING appeared. I take you at your word that you believed there was one, or more accurately, that there is supposed to be one, however, that is NOT the case. Might I suggest that you do the same test so that this doesn’t happen to anyone else. I’m sorry that someone has been hacking your site, I’m sorry that anyone’s business fails, but NEITHER of those things are our fault. You frustration with your hacking problem explains your reaction. But it’s hard for us members to be sympathetic to Mr. Lay when our money is taken when it shouldn’t be. It doesn’t matter if it’s $34 or $340, if he’s not supposed to take it, he shouldn’t. As you said, you don’t know him, we do. And as a religious woman, his “God bless you all.” at the end of his story offends me knowing that just a matter of weeks back he was cursing and screaming at a lady for no good reason.
Sir, you state that you have no relation to Mr. Lay, you simply “printed his story” yet you don’t seem the least bit concerned about his actions while being overly sensitive to my statements and questions. So much so that you have threatened to not post future posts from me. When I looked through everything here I was aghast. I have to wonder, if things have been as bad as he says for as long as he says, then why no notice to us? Why take dues for AFTER he will be closed? It is not simply ONE $34 loss, but he is taking EVERYONE’S payments in September, again, I’m perfectly willing to provide you with HIS notice of this. Plus all the full year’s memberships he’s collected in the last few weeks/months. We’re not talking about a few dollars here, we’re talking about thousands. And for all those that did pay him up front for the next year, where does it leave them? He’s not saying. I work on the other side of town, so I went to a club there and asked about this and they said that Curves policy is to stop drafting 30 days prior to closing and while they will try to get my dues, they have never been able to get Mr. Lay to send money in the past. So, while I’m naturally sympathetic to all businesses suffering during these hard time – hard times for ALL of us – I’m NOT willing to accept that you, or anyone, believes it is right for Mr. Lay to take monies for services he knows full well he will not be providing. Are these other clubs going to allow us to be members without getting any money? As to one other posters comments regarding going to another Curves, Mr. Lay himself has suggested a bigger NON-Curves co-ed gym for us to go to. Surprisingly, it is located right by where his other closed club used to be. Will they accept my transfer? Will they waive my fees? Is Mr. Lay sending them my dues for September/October? Remember, all our dues are paid in advanced. So the monies he is taking today are for the NEXT month’s dues. I guess Mr. Lay is so angry with Curves that rather than have us go to another Curves, he’d rather we go to a big gym competitor. So much for his belief in the concept and concern for other small business owners.
I don’t believe that ANY of this is out of line. I don’t know if when Mr. Lay told us to come here that he thought we’d all be happy to come here and post nice things about him. My friend saved all last year a few dollars at a time to come up with the money to pay Mr. Lay for this next year, so as sorry as I may be for the business closing, I’m more sympathetic to her than him.
So, while I’m sure that if my posts do not remain, or even appear HERE, “it will be all [me]” but NOT for any of the reasons previously stated.
Member wrote: To whom do I owe an apology?
This would have been nice: I’m sorry for coming on your site and incorrectly accusing the administrator of suppressing my comments. I was angry but that was not an excuse for being a disrespectful guest. Thank you for the opportunity to post and discuss my complaint with Mr. Lay’s Curves.
“She also did a weird exercise on the floor like a snake near the bathroom each time she came in.”
I believe that exercise is called the “Howie Heavin”
[...] On a sad note, it looks like Robert Lay is going to be closing his Las Vegas Curves franchise this month. Read his story and 200+ comments on the UnhappyFranchisee.com post CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story. [...]
If no other members were in the club, how would “member” know what lay said to a visiting member?
Maybe “member” is the 60 yr old who called Lay a “pr++k” and is mad that she can’t do her snake slither exercise in front of his bathroom anymore.
It is so sad that this loony tune is upset but she is wrong again and making false statements either through ignorance or intentional. Who knows but her payments are not deducted in advance as she states but for the month they were drawn on. She is upset for all the wrong reasons and of course we gave them the option of going to other gyms. We can only hope she continues your exercise program to relieve her of some pint up hostility. I hope she has had a great week and enjoys her new club where ever that my be.
Hey I like it the ” howie heavin ” move. When we all get him into court in March of 2010 he will be shown to be the snake that he really is!!!!!
PS RL don’t worry about some member who doesn’t even understand the way her account is drafted. Some members are truly B@@@@@@ and she is surly one.
To right the false assumption, I never said I was there for THIS particular incident, but having witnessed other occasions where Mr. Lay has erupted, we did not find it at all hard to believe when we heard about it. And therefore I tend to believe the story as we heard it rather than as Mr. Lay recounts it. The person I was talking about lives right by the club. She’s a member at the other club because she goes there on her lunch break from work! So while she is a traveler, she is also a local resident. Seriously, do you not realize that people talk? You don’t think that when the owner of a business you frequent calls someone, especially someone from the neighborhood, a fing b it isn’t going to get back to the rest of the regular customers? Are you really that naïve? You wouldn’t’ believe the stuff we’ve heard. But I’m sure there will always a good reason for him to curse and scream at customers. Good business practice I guess. Of course, none of that was the point of my initial message, but you know that. It only served as an illustration of what type of “God fearing” man Mr. Lay is and why there is no way I would be posting my name. So yes, I guess I don’t “have the guts” to tell you who I am. You are a frightening individual and I would not feel safe if I did. It’s a shame your wife could not have run the business without your involvement. She and Margaret are the reason any of us stayed despite your appearances. I’m sorry I won’t be able to say goodbye to them. When I found out what was happening I had to see for myself and was floored and after reading your note to us – but after your not too surprising actions here, I will certainly not be returning to wish them well.
But more importantly and to my actual point, no, you are stating things incorrectly with respect to how our money is handled. I joined your club mid month and paid my first month’s dues UP FRONT. Then starting the following month and every month since then you have taken money from my account. Since my initial payment was for the following 30 days, EVERY payment since then has been a payment for the NEXT 30 days too. So no, you are not taking money for September, you are taking money for September/October, just as I said. What you are claiming would only have happened if when I joined you did not take money for 60 days. That is flat out not what happened. You took it the very next month and every month since.
What you should have done was STOP taking money from anyone on the 25th of AUGUST – 1 month before closing. That way everyone would have paid you for our last month and that would be that. Instead you have stated that you will be taking money from our accounts even now, when you KNOW you won’t be opened in a week. I guess it’s easier to call me a liar and make fun of people. And you wonder why I won’t tell you who I am?
BTW Look what I found, while waiting for the AG’s office to get back to me, and after reading the post by “Another Curver” I decided to follow her advice and search for Nevada Law on the topic. I was able to pretty quickly find this:
NRS 598.956 Rights of buyer upon closure of dance studio or health club; election of remedies.
1. If a dance studio or health club is closed for more than 1 month, through no fault of the buyer, he is entitled to:
(a) Extend the contract for a period equal to the time the studio or club is closed; or
(b) Receive a refund pro rata of the amount paid pursuant to the contract.
2. If the dance studio or health club is closed without fault of its owner or management, the election of remedies under subsection 1 must be made by the studio or club. If the studio or club is closed because of the fault of its owner or management, the election must be made by the buyer.
(Added to NRS by 1989, 2040; A 1993, 1965)
Since the closure is permanent, no extension can be granted. So, not only should he not be drafting us, the ONLY option is to pro rate the refund from the closure date.
We Closed our curves july 31st, and they have left 2 messages on my voicemail saying they have heard we closed and to call them about arrangements,the 2nd message said call or they were turning our franchise over to legal. I can’t tell you how much stress is off of me after closing curves every month was a struggle to pay the bills. I stayed so stressed out it was bad on my marriage and my family, I don,t really care if they turn it over to legal,I don’t know what they can get we have spent all our savings and still owe a buisness loan. Has anyone on here closed without giving them notice? I would like to know what happened.In the economy today if you have to give up something the gym for alot of people would be 1 thing to give up maybe not everybody but in a small town it is. People are more worried about having a job than going to the gym. When I went to curves camp in 07 the lady over my team was a curves owner and also a cordinator, I was told they let her go along with alot more at curves international,I guess it is alright for them to do what they have to do,when we have no other choice but to close because we have run out of money they want to sue.
Send an e-mail to Sean at unhappyfranchisee.com and request it to be forwarded to me with your phone number and we will be happy to go over the procedures and options you have. Many owners have gone through what you are going through so take a deep breath as you are not alone.
I usually do not post on this site as my husband takes care of this side of the business for us and he has done quite a good job helping hundreds upon hundreds of owners who have had problems with the business tactics of Curves International. At this time after reading the post from a member of ours, I felt I needed to respond to her outlandish accusations. First off we don’t owe her a dime as she is mistaken on how the billing works period. My husband had every reason to react the way he did to the traveling member who had been told she was not welcome in our club on several different occasions. If I had been there I would have called the police and she would have ended up in jail for trespassing. She had been warned about this by myself, my husband and the other trainers and just refused to listen. Furthermore your statement about Robert being a “God fearing man” is not only uncalled for but darn right insulting and offensive. As Sean has stated so eloquently the purpose of this site is “Our site is focused on the plight of people who are losing their businesses, their homes, and their retirement savings” as a result of the business tactics of Gery Howard Heavin and Curves International. If you had any moral integrity you would come in to the club before we close and I or Margaret would be more than happy to show you your payment record form the day you started to the end of September which will prove that you are wrong. Oh and by the way you don’t need to worry about who you are as you are right about one thing. Members do talk and many have told us who you are and none of them agreed with you although there have been several that we had to show them their payment record to prove that you are wrong. Upon seeing it they have all been satisfied that the billing has been done correctly.
You not only owe Sean an apology but you owe us one as well but we won’t hold our breath as I’m sure it won’t be forth coming. This will be our last post concerning your misinformed posts so be it. Kareen
First, I’ve pulled out my statements for the month I joined Curves and the following ones. There is, as I said, a withdrawal just 30 days after joining and each month after. There is no point in me arguing about it here. That was never my intent, my intent was to make sure others were aware of the situation possibly effecting them too. You can of course dispute this with your bank just as I have done. I’ll leave that to the banks to figure out. I showed them my contract with Curves, and THEY have the dates that money was taken so it doesn’t really matter what the club’s records say, what matters is what the contract and bank records say. I’ve filled out the form to stop the club from withdrawing any more from my account. For anyone that didn’t get this done before their money was taken, they can get their money back. Your bank can tell you how.
I’m sure many members have been outraged and discussed it with each other and maybe even discussed what has happened here since you sent us here, but I have not. I just got done explaining to Robert how silly it was for him to think people don’t talk. You really believe that I would make that same mistake? No, I’m sorry to say that I’m quite sure that I am not the only member irritated with the way this was handled. So no, no one “told you” who I am because I haven’t told anyone! Other than to grab the note I haven’t even been in the club since. And when I was, no one was there, no other members and not even Margaret.
As to an apology, no, I didn’t owe Sean (I assume he is the moderator?) an apology. I’ve said and shown several times that I NEVER EVER accused HIM of anything. I never “screamed at him”, never “flamed him”, and despite the truly disrespectful comments here, comments that I see in posts by various people, including Robert (making fun of people who aren’t even here? Is that how you are helping?) still, with all that as the norm, I did none of that. Reading back over the old messages, it didn’t take long to get the gist and tenor of the posts here, so I take comfort in the irony of it when it is I who is accused of being disrespectful. I submitted my original message that I wrote to the moderator (along with his original response) EXACTLY as I wrote it ASKING what privileges ROBERT had with respect to comments and if ROBERT had been the one to remove the note after it had originally appeared. After posting it for others to judge for themselves I asked where in it I did ANY of what was claimed.
Lastly, I do feel bad for those of you who have run into trouble with and even lost your businesses because of the actions of others. I really do. My family has been running small businesses since the 20s. Through the years and tough times, they’ve made and lost more money than I care to imagine. If someone defrauded you, you have remedies. I saw mention of an upcoming court case. Hopefully they can determine if that is the case. I am sympathetic to the plight of all of you and believe it or not, want it or not, I even feel sorry for you Robert. However, your loss does not give you the right to take from me. You believe you are allowed to take the money, we and our bank do not. So just as your court case will decide who is right for you with your case against Curves, the banks can decide who is right with this. If you were wronged, I hope that the courts are as swift for you as my bank was for me.
Gee this member admitted she was wrong ” There is, as I said, a withdrawal just 30 days after joining and each month after” and yet refuses to apologize for any of her wrong accusations. She tries to place blame on someone else instead of accepting her own blame and doesn’t even bother to try to work it out with the company by going in to see her records. How much of a coward can she be. I doubt that the owners will go after her but by being a owner I can tell you she has signed a contract which will be up held and they have every right to make her pay. I have even had members dispute the charges with the banks and on every occasion we were successful on making the charges stick. She nothing but a free loader and unfortunately the world is full of them as times are ruff.
Its funny that she refuses to come in and discuss the problem but she obviously doesn’t communicate well. We know exactly who it is I can tell you it’s not worth discussing it here on this site. We will take her to collections if she refuses to pay and thus leave a black mark on her credit file. Now days that will do her more harm than the 34 dollars she is trying to cheat us out of. Normally I would have just let it go but in this case I can assure you she will be turned over to collections by the first of the month. She can explain it to them and it will be on her credit report for the rest of her life. So be it. End of story……………
Another California Curves closes abuptly.
http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=66913&catid=2
I don’t know if you are intentionally misquoting me or if you are missing/ignoring the parts you don’t like. Either way, I got a good laugh because like many wives, I accuse my husband of “selective hearing” sometimes but this is a new one. It seems several here have bad cases of “selective reading”. unhappy You will note that I ALSO said that I paid my FIRST month UP FRONT then 30 days later my second month was taken.
Since I guess I wasn’t clear with that, maybe if I lay it out for you it will help. Let’s say I joined on July 20 (I didn’t but it’s for illustration purposes and I don’t want to go through the math for all the months involved) and on THAT DAY I paid for my FIRST month’s dues. That has me paid from July 20 to August 20. Then “just 30 days later” on August 20 my SECOND month is taken which pays IN ADVANCED for August 20 to September 20. Now, when they take money on SEPTEMBER 20, what month does THAT pay for? That’s right, IN ADVANCED for September 20 to October 20 – just like I said.
Or here, you say you are an owner too? Let’s say you moved into your building on January 15th. I’m sure you landlord had you pay your first month’s rent IN ADVANCE when you moved in (yes, I believe that normally the first month would be prorated, and rent would be due on the 1st, but my dues were not prorated and I’m trying not to change the dates too much to avoid any further confusion). Then “just [31] days later” on February 15th your landlord charges you rent again. You are now paid up through March 15th. We agreed so far? So now on March 15th your landlord once again charges you rent. BUT on March 18th the government seizes his property. And in the process they lock you and all the other tenants out. When you make your claim for lost rent, are you out 3 days rent or 28? Using the argument put forth here before, that we members should NOT be upset that hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars has been lost by us when Mr. Lay is losing his business, should you and the other tenants even be upset at the landlord? Maybe the landlord lost millions and you only lost a few thousand. A mere drop in his bucket.
I’m trying to avoid dropping this to a lower level, and don’t want to be accused of the same name calling and making fun of people that I just expressed disdain for, but I mean, come on, THIS is basic accounting. If you can’t figure this out, maybe it is you who is “[trying] to place blame on someone else” for your problems.
And what “blame” should I accept? Blame being shocked when we read that he was still going to be taking our dues despite the fact that they were closing the doors less than a week later? Blame for the imagined accusations against the moderator? Blame for NOT being bullied and taking the “cowards” way and letting my bank handle the heavy lifting?
As to the contract I signed, I believe that Nevada law referring to closed gyms (shown above) addresses that. You must have “selectively not read” that too.
My god, member, this family is losing their business of 20 years and you’re publicly berating them and beating them up over $34.
How many people have you told this story to? While they act sympathetic, for $34 you’re telling everyone around you that you’re a sad human being completely lacking compassion for others. I hope the Lay’s realize they should just feel sorry for you because they’ll rebuild and get on with their lives, but you’ll still be a sad human being even after you get your $34 back.
I almost feel like sending her the $34. She’s definitely on the wrong website. I don’t think anyone here has any compassion for her.
Please, after closing my Club and still trying to find a way to pay my July’s home mortgage, I’ll send you the $34.00 myself…do you have a PO Box so that no one really knows how pathetic and who you are.
This unhappy member doesn’t make sense if you read her post from the beginning. It should be obvious that she is lying and can’t or won’t even go in to the club in question to confront the owner or manager. If her complaint was legitimate it would certainly be the normal and correct way to address the problem. Instead she resorts to trying to publicly berating them. What a coward and yet makes accusations that are obviously not true. Her inconsistently throughout her posts show she bends the truth to fit her story. She is a sad human being and really needs to seek out some form of psychological help. When they send her to collection and ruin her credit she will probably have a nervous breakdown. Even though she is nut’s to put it mildly lets all say a prayer for her as she certainly needs some form of help.
No need to send anything. I had my bank stop/reverse the payment. Thank you for your concern though. Of course, you seemed to miss the point. It’s not about ONE $34 payment that they weren’t entitled to, it’s about ALL payments that they took from members just days before closing. I realize that they are claiming otherwise and that they were entitled to that money, but I’m going to put stock in my bank’s records and not Robert’s. I recommend that any other member check THEIR records/bank statements. There is a limited time frame in which to pull back money taken this way.
Just out of curiosity, since you seem to be hung up on the amount of money taken, what is the magic number where it’s no longer acceptable for someone to take money that they aren’t entitled to? $50? $100? $1000? Is it OK to take $34 from 100 people but not OK to take $3400 from 1 person? I’ve lost tens of thousands in stocks over the last two years. I’ve seen my retirement nest egg disappear before my eyes. Is it OK if I take $34 from anyone I can? I mean, it’s just $34 and I did lose a lot so show me some sympathy. I don’t know anymore. I always thought wrong was wrong. There are lots of people out of work around here, 13.5%. There are lots of people in financial straits. Lots of people losing their homes. Which ones are and which ones aren’t allowed to take money from others? And how much can they take?
As to “unhappy”, your “selective reading” disability has caused you confusion that I will be unable to clear up. But please, feel free to continue making your “point”. The name calling certainly makes your argument stronger.
member:
The Lay’s club is closing because the cost of providing the service to members exceeded the amount members were paying.
So that means that every month they’ve been losing money on your membership. Isn’t that great? You should be delighted… you not only got your money back but you know you benefited from someone else’s misfortune! And you’ve got $34 for celebrating at Cinnabon!
I too am a member of that club and I have spoken to over twenty members who all agree that this member is wrong. She needs to check her account and pay the September’s fee before they send it to collections as I’m sure they will.. But in any case as members we are surly sorry that they had to close as it was a beautiful club and we will all miss it very much. The owners were excellent and the trainers were all very nice and motivating. It is a shame that the franchisor has turned out to so crooked. We had no idea that there home offices were treating the franchises like that. Shame on them and we all hope the best for the owners in their future endeavors. Oh, just for everyone’s information the owners refused to let us know who it is that is complaining but we all figured it out and she has always been a constant complainer and never had anything good to say about anything in the circut while during her workout. While this last week of going in has been sad and Friday will be the last day it has been a pleasure not having her around constantly complaining who she is being ripped off and taken by advantage of by someone or some business.
[...] Leave a Comment // Outspoken Curves for Women critic and franchise owner Robert Lay will close the doors of his Las Vegas club this Friday. Robert Lay’s journey as a Curves Owner is chronicled and discussed on Unhappy Franchisee (Read CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story) [...]
Condolences to Robert & Kareen Lay on the closing of their Curves club. Best wishes for success in all future endeavors.
CURVES: Outspoken Franchisee to Close Club
Thank you ADMIN for your kind words and even though our last club will close on this Friday September 25th our legal fight will continue with Curves International on two fronts. We will have our day in court sooner than later at this point and of course we will still be there to help other owners who going through the nightmare caused by Curves International and Howard Heavin. Closing will be bitter sweet but it will give us more time to devote to this site and the legal issues concerning all clubs. Robert and Kareen
Two years ago when we were given a preview of the Curves Smart I was all excited. I was thinking this will put Curves above all other fitness clubs because of the technology. I came across a website http://www.shapesforwomen.com that had a similar setup to curves including the mytrak success coach. I had emailed my AD and told her my concerns of someone opening up such a club in my area and without franchise fees could sell memberships at a lower cost. She said not to worry because Curves had bought the rights to use this software. I have now noticed that the shapes for women no longer has the mytrak system. But as I was researching other things came across this site http://www.sterlingfitnessequipment.com/mytrak_m.html
This is also another way to own a Curves like gym. I am also closing my doors at the end of this month and to be quite honest it was the purchase of Curves Smart that finally did me in. Had I known you could own one of these other clubs and have the success coach without going thru Curves I wouldnt have done it. I feel for the other club owners that have invested lots of money. I am also in debt up to my eyeballs but not as much as others. I wish I had found a site like this two years ago when I purchased mine. I worked long hard hours to try and keep my club going and it is a relief to be done with it all and find a normal job that actually pays. Good luck to everyone and God Bless
You are so right about the curves smart. It was sold as new technology but is over ten years old and never worked than and doesn’t work now. The advance workout is a much better workout than curves smart. what gets me is the owners who in thier own mind know the truth still try to sell it to there members like the clubs just down the road from me. They are no better than Heavin and won’t admit that the curves smart does not work. I guess some snakes just like to lie in the same bed as the others and are only out for greed regardless of the truth.
As the owner of the PACE hydraulic circuit training program (the very first Curves club in Harlingen, TX had our PACE equipment as Gary Heavin was an independent sales rep for PACE), I have helped thousands of people successfully open their own non-franchise clubs over the years. Not being locked into a franchise formula, my customers enjoy the flexibility to format their clubs any way they want (including additional profit centers, products and services). Because of the large number of Curves clubs closing in the last couple of years, I have sold many circuits to those people who see an opportunity and a need to service Curves members left high and dry. Many of these customers are offering a combination of women only hours during the day, then coed hours in the evening. It makes sense, especially in smaller markets, to appeal to as much of the population as possible. And let’s face it, there are just as many out of shape men out there as women and many of them are just as intimidated with the hardcore clubs as women. You will have no where near the same number of men as women, but if you can increase memberships by 20-25% by offering coed hours in the evening, it may be something to consider.
To make things clear on MyTrak, they do have an exclusive agreement with Curves for women only clubs. However, some of my coed customers have also added MyTrak to their PACE equipment with great results. I am familiar with MyTrak; they make a great product that I strongly endorse, but they cannot sell to any women only clubs.
I invite anyone interested in PACE or our Kids PACE Express program to visit http://www.pacegroupexercise.com or read my blogs at http://kidspaceexpress.blogspot.com/2009/09/coed-circuit-training-clubs.html.
I too am an owner that has closed and have been harassed by CI. I have posted many updates to their behavior. I search the Internet frequently for news of CI’s final demise. I just know I will read about them having to file bankruptcy soon.
I did come across this lawsuit between Go-figure and CI. Intertesting!
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-txsdce/case_no-4:2009cv02930/case_id-696994/
I found the listing of all suits by and against CI here.
http://dockets.justia.com/search?q=Curves+International%2C+Inc.
Ginger,
I just went over the list you provided but it is not all the lawsuits that have been filled and is only partially correct. I know of many more that have been filed that don’t show up on that list. It appeared to me that those are the ones that have been filed in the federal district court in Waco. Even so there are many more in that court as the group action lawsuit is filed in that court also and has over 200 litigants with over 800 ready to be filed depending on the outcome of that trail. The group action lawsuit is set to go to trail in March of 2010.
HELP!!! I have read some of the horror stories listed. I to have to close my club. I can not get anyone to return my calls from CI. I do not know what to do. I have had my club almost 7 years and have paid my dues. I do not have 10,000 dollars. Because of the recession I have to close. I love my members and hate to dissapoint them but I have no choice. The closing packet was sent to me but I’m scared to send it in. Is there any help out there? I have to do what I need to do today. Will they let me out without the 10,000 fee. Has anyone out there been in my shoes. Please someone respond as I need advice and help NOW.
We’ve all been there! Our club has been closed for over a year. We refused to pay the $10,000. They emailed us two more times, first lowering it to $8,000, then to $6,000 – we still refused. Next came a letter from Curves Legal stating we now owed fees for the remainder of our franchise agreement, somewhere in the amount of over $42,000, with a fair amount of scare tactics! (Read our story above: CA Ex-owner on October 16th, 2008) We then sent a letter back to legal, refusing to pay anything and the reasons why. Now I will knock on wood before I say this, but it has been over a year that we sent them that letter and we have not heard a thing yet.
We are not part of the legal action that many of the people above are pursuing, and I’m sure someone will respond on how to proceed in that direction, or direct you to on what other options you may have. Remember, you are not alone, we’ve all been through this horrible experience. It hardly makes it better, but at least maybe knowing there are so many of us out there, you might feel a little better…
Hi Donna.
Like You, I had to close my club. I closed it Feb 28th this year. I decided to close it on the Sunday before that, because my landlady told me that Friday that she was putting “for Lease” signs in my window that weekend. On Sunday she told me to have all my stuff out of the place by March 1st.
Of course I did everything I could to keep Curves International properly informed and I asked them for advice on the best way to proceed. They contradicted themselves, ignored information I gave them, gave me conflicting advice and instructions, and generally sounded like fools and idiots. I also had Curves Smart. The one thing they did spell out, there is no “standard” $10,000 fee. At least Not Anymore. They said, if I write a letter asking for a settlement instead of paying all the outstanding royalties and ad fees, then they will put it to a review board and the review board will make a suggestion for a settlement. Then they told me not to write a letter but to hold onto the closing packet.
Well, then they forgot about me for 6 or 8 or 10 weeks. I think it was sometime in May that I got a notice that I owed some $40,000 for the balance of royalties and such. At that time they also called me to urge me to quickly remove the curves smart equipment (which I had been leasing) from the machines before my landlady took posession of them. Well, in Feb and March I had given them as much notice as possible that my landlady took possession of the machines on March 1st and that I had pursued all the leads they’d given me to find buyers for the curves smart and that they had, by email and by phone, told me absolutely not to remove the curves smart from the machines (because it would void the warranty). even when i told them the warranty would be irrelevant once she took the machines, they still told me, in email and on the phone, not to remove it. so of course, i had no way to do it then (in may or whatever)
however, i did inform them that i was filing for bankruptcy. they never asked for the bankruptcy attorneys name or the case number. i am just now filing, so they havent gotten any legal notices yet either.
since then I have not heard one word. it’s been what, 7 months since I closed. ridiculous.
oh by the way, they did collect royalties from me on March 5th. the one time my bank granted me an overdraft (with fee) was for that charge. so i closed that account.
i do have another franchise, that i’m struggling to hold onto, and you would think maybe that’s why they’re giving me some slack. when i closed the bank account, i told them i would only give them the info for drafting me on the other franchise if they gave me a new draft authorization only for the only franchise, and that i would sue them if they ever tried to draft anything on the closed business from that account. i told them i’d take it to the ach review commission and then they’d lose all their privilidges for using ach.
i believe that is a real possibility.
they are very frustrating but i think they have a backlog of closed cases. i have been told by others (gossip?) that they are understaffed and overworked. of course they’re busy with the big lawsuit that “unhappy” is part of it. and all the little lawsuits. i would like to know more about gofigure’s lawsuit against them too.
my attorney told me not to worry about any of it, because our state law supercedes whatever was written in the franchise agreement.
and i wonder if there isn’t a time limit on their taking legal steps? does anyone know that?
Yes there is a time limit on them taking legal steps but I believe it is 4 years although it maybe 5. I will have more info on the laws suits in the coming weeks including updates on the go figure filling so stay tuned.
To another Curver,
What state are you from? CI is telling me I have to give away (women’s prison or another Curve) or destroy my equipment. If that’s the case how can a landlord just take possession of it? What can they do with it? I read in my CI agreement that they can buy it back for the sum not exceeding $1,000. If that’s the case then I guess it is mine so how can they tell me what do do with it. Did you file for bankruptcy? I don’t know about you but I feel I am in a nightmare that I want to wake up from. I believe that with Robert’s help I will wake up and I will have the strength to fight the monsters and win. Best of luck to you and I know what you are feeling. Would like to hear from you.
Hi Donna. Thanks for your response. I was not early enough to get into the lawsuit with Robert, but I’m watching it and I’ve talked to him. Thank you.
I am in WA state. My contract also said that they had first right of refusal to buy it back from me for up to $1000, but that was only upon completion of the 10 yr licensce. I did not complete the 10 years, but it does make it sound like we purchased the equipment, doesn’t it. (It makes me think there’s more grounds for a class action lawsuit. But I digress.) My CPA and the IRS also thought it made it sound like a purchase, and I had been using that in my accounting methods (both for depreciation and writing off the initial start up investment).
Why did I let my landlord “seize” my equipment? I had no other choice, really. I didn’t have any funds for storage (I suppose I could have put it into my yard and covered it with tarps, but that still would have involved getting it moved and I would have to hire someone at that point, time was an issue) and I already knew several other franchisees who had closed their doors and been “threatened” by CI and had tried to comply to their demands for how to get rid of the equipment. The problem is their is too much of it out there, so one guy I know has three circuits in his backyard “shed”.
Also, in my state at least, Tenant Landlord law gives the landlord remedies like auctioning off my business equipment in the case of my failure to fulfill my lease, and that supercedes Curves International’s claim to have me destroy the equipment (according to my landlord’s attorney, my bankruptcy attorney, and the local sheriff’s office).
And since I’m already out of compliance with their requests by simply refusing to pay them their fees for a business that had to close because of lack of money, I’m not worried about it. I’m not planning on going to Waco anytime soon though, because from what I understand then the law would have something on me.
One thing I did worry about, for 5 seconds, was when I found out that another Curves that closed was trying to donate their circuit to a non-profit retirement center in the territory of my franchise that is still open. But I can’t control everything. There just aren’t enough hours in the day.
Isn’t it amazing how many ambiguities are involved in dealing with CI? The more I think about it, the more I feel like they try alot of “stuff” by intimidation and very little by actual legal right. But maybe that’s true throughout the business realm. I guess it’s why lawyers keep so busy. Too bad though.
I don’t believe that’s it true throughout the business realm but it is certainly true with business that are run by unscrupulous individuals such as Curves International seems to be. All of the closing procedures such as the closing fee, signing of a so called ” mutual release”, and ect.ect. are all done through intimidation, trickery, and lies and has no legal president in the courts at all. But I would agree that the business lawyers stay very busy as a result of all the law suits brought on by the individuals who gotten taken by the unscrupulous business owners. It’s really unfortunate when those unscrupulous business owners use Christianity as a selling tool to help perpetuate the fraud and as we all know, Curves International does that as well.
Hi Another Curver,
I don’t quite follow your statement of ” I’m not planning on going to Waco anytime soon though, because from what I understand then the law would have something on me.” What would they have on you? You have done nothing wrong that I can see and should have nothing to worry about. Once the first group action lawsuit goes through with a favorable ruling for the litigants there will be a second and probably 3rd wave with quite possibly a class action lawsuit to boot.. You may want to consider joining one of them as it is you ( along with all the other owners) that have been been wronged not CI. They really don’t have a leg to stand on. Not this time- No Way–No How While justice has not been swift, March of 2010 is just around the corner and approaching fast.
Robert was right on. Settlement from 10,000 now wanting 2,500. And its only been 12 days. I don’t close until Oct. 30th. They were also nice and I wouldn’t have to pay it until the end of Nov. I wonder If I ask nice they’ll say i don’t have to give away my equipment to another Curves or destroy it -I can do what I want with it. What do you think?
[...] the post CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story, here’s a recent exchange regarding the $10,000 closing [...]
[...] failing, soon-to-close and closed Curves franchise owners regularly share information, advice and mutual support to each other on the Unhappy [...]
Has any curves owners paid a lower settlement and been able to keep there machines?
If so was the equipment in the mutual release you signed part of your settlement
The equipment is yours to do with want you want period……The mutual release is only to prevent you from filling a lawsuit. Don’t sign it ever as by doing so you give up your rights to join any type of lawsuit against Curves International and Howard Heavin. Yet they can and will still sue you!!!!!!!!!!
Unhappy, thanks for your encouragement. You’re right, of course, I have NOT done anything wrong. I just meant I do know where I stand in Wa state courts. And I am looking forward to the next wave of legal action. Thanks.
First of all whoever said this, But the system is specifically designed for the female body. The founders of Curves originated with co-ed and it didn’t fly.”
Gary didnt design anything! He stole the idea and has great PR skills so he leads you to believe that its his idea.
Google.com pace exercise group. THAT is the ORIGINAL hydraluic workout. This workout is NOT designed for woman ! It was originally designed for people in physical therapy to introduce light resistance to their muscle.s
NOTHING HE DOES IS ORIGINAL, IT IS ALL STOLEN.
Curves is down 5000 clubs this year, does that sound like a growing franchise?
No.
This company wont be around in the next few years.
It makes me sick to see how good he is at marketing and how dishonest he is AND how people believe this individual.
He INVENTED curves smart to make it seem like this was the answer to member retention yet clubs are closing with or without curves smart.
I hope he is sued heavily and loose his company.
This man is no different than the crooks you see on wall street that had to have their billions and would hurt anyone to get them!
He should be sued and be forced to pay back the money he HAS STOLEN from people wanting a business opportunity..
What a THIEF and dishonest person..
I get a kick out of how curves markets curves smart. Custom designed workout tailored to your specific goals all on NON ADJUSTABLE EQUIPMENT that DOESNT change resistance, reps or anything.
Being a fitness professional, this is a downright lie!
I love how they market their curves smart in the new book, by saying it is good for sport specific training??
The keyword there being SPECIFIC. Curves is cookie cutter.
Its all one big lie and great marketing. Curves smart does push the user , but there is no POSSIBLE way it can be tailored to your goals. How it is supposed to tailor to your body type when it is all the same??
We were once a club with 700+ members and we now down to 594. Due in part to the recession and other things.
We may not be here in the next two years…
its a shame to see..
Lies, lies,lies..
I am the spouse of a former Curves owner in Southeast Virginia. My wife and her partner closed their Curves last year. The echo still reverberates monthly as we pay back rent and business loans. Like many others, I have been checking this site periodically in hope that the Curves goons are not going to show up at my door. I am somewhat mystified by two faces of Curves we all see on the web. The glowing reports from franchise magazines and the reality of franchises closing at the speed of light. I am curious about the disposition of the equipment. We paid for it, it’s on our business loan, yet are we to destroy it? We attempted to donate it to the local school system for a weight loss program but were denied. Right now it’s wrapped up in the barn. I think our horse is even bored with it.
Any ideas?
Phil;
Just for your information, Gary Heavin did not invent the Curves Smart system. It is actually technology that is about 10 years old called MyTrak. Yes, it is a good system to challenge the user to work harder than their last workout, but used on non-adjustable equipment like Curves, it does nothing to increase the load. The user is supposed to push harder than their last workout, but eventually they will reach a point where they are pushing as fast/hard as they can and hit a plateau. At that point, no electronic bells and whistles are going to do anything except monitor the fact that they have stagnated. Any certified trainer can tell you that in order to keep getting results, you need to increase either the frequency of exercise, the intensity of exercise (which they have already done and maxed out) or the duration of exercise (or change the type of exercise).
You are correct that the Curves one-size-fits-all workout is not sports specific; nor is it a progressive program. The MyTrak system does not increase or decrease the resistance; it merely monitors the effort of the user encouraging them to stay in the “green” zone. It’s a nice feedback system to help retain bored members- for awhile; eventually they will drop out as well as you are witnessing.
Good chance I’ll get slammed, since this post goes against the flow, but ANYONE can Google and see for themselves. So, to correct you, with hydraulic resistance exercise the resistance does change. Actually, it must change. The faster the movement, the greater the resistance. So, the greater the number of reps in a given amount of time with the same ROM (and you want full ROM to get muscle overload) means faster motion and therefore greater resistance. Hatred of all things Curves can’t change the fundamentals of fluid dynamics.
The “weakness” with Hydraulic Resistance (and find me a system that doesn’t have a weakness), is that it favors endurance over increasing mass. In other words, you aren’t going to choose this type of exercise to “bulk up”. But honestly, what percentage of women out there are trying to “bulk up”?
Not trying to get into a brawl here, but since many of us who have nothing to do with Curves use hydraulic resistance as part of our regimen, it’s pretty important to get the facts straight. Hate the player, not the game.
Thanks.
I closed my club on August 31st and Curves told me that I would have to pay 2,500 by Sept 15 and have all the paper work to them. I am still waiting for the curvessmart paperwork to show up so I can have the new curves sign off. I received a notice today that I now owe more than 25,000.
Is there an attorney that I can contact. I have numerous emails from Curves and they never get back to you.
Hey Fitdude,
Yep, I know. Hey Den, THERE IS NO ADDED RESISTANCE WITH HYDARULICS other than pushing harder the harder it pushed back..thats it.
There is NO GPO, graduall progressive overload that is NEEDED to keep the body changing!
Women dont generally BULK UP! Hydraluic ressitance mimics that of water fitness. Ever do resistance training in a pool with paddles? Thats the same level of resistance that you’ll get with hydraulics.
In fact, hydraulics were INITIALLY designed for people out of rehab that needed some simple load beaing to help them strenghten their muscles.
fitdude is right. Curves smart doesnt adjust ANYTHING to the workout, its simply a monitor of progress that will evantually plateau.
Oh and Fitdude, I was actually being sarcastic about Gary inventing curves smart. Its his half assed effort to help member rention WHICH IT DOESNT DO!
Another fact, Den, google Pace exercise group .This is the original hydraulic.
He steals the idea, takes it o mexico , makes cylinders down there for dirt cheap and gives himself a name that appeals to women, CURVES.
Now years later, hes lost half of his clubs in the US alone.
There will come a time that this company will eventually go away. It may not be for another 5 years or so, but it was a fad!
You cant keep doing curves with or without curves smart and expect results, but the thing here is taht people believe him!
He has great salesmen skills.
I went to( had to) go to a regional meeting with one of this puppets preaching about. Having been a trainer for over 10 years, this made me laugh.
His puppet said, Gary says if you can walk you can squat?! WTF!?
He clearly has never trained anyone.
Den, the fcat is that missing GPO, this exercise program is limited and will eventually go away.
I heard that Curves is going bankrupt too! This company does deserve to go out of business because of the lies they preach and how they decieve people.
this company is no different then the crooks on wall street! Greed driven.
You are still misstating the facts. There is no comparable change in resistance through the stroke in a pool in your example (unless the pool is filled with something other than water or is pressurized). With Hydraulic resistance in a cylinder, as I said, when you increase speed you increase resistance. It’s not a simple “push back”. When you move an object through a hydraulic material under pressure and change the speed, the resistance changes. Period. If you up the reps from say 10 to 15 in the same time period, you must have increased the speed (unless you know something about physics, space and time, that I don’t and can do more reps in the same time period WITHOUT changing the speed) and therefore the resistance will have changed. This is not my opinion, it’s a simple fact of how object move in hydraulic materials. You don’t have to believe me, like I said, I’m sure ANYONE can Google something like “hydraulic resistance equation” and literally see for themselves.
So, if you have someone do the same exercise in the same time period with the same ROM but increase the reps, you will have increased the average resistance across the entire exercise.
As far as what it was originally designed for, really? That is going to be the crux of your argument: “it was INITIALLY designed for THIS and THAT is ALL it will ever be.”?
That’s utter nonsense. By that logic, computers should go back to punch card days – or further. None of us should be using the internet and “the wheel” should be used for what? What shall we say it was “INITIALLY designed for”? Come on now, to say that ANYTHING is limited by its original design – never to be improved upon – is just plain silly…
Is it perfect? No. But like I said, find me the perfect program without limitations.
As I have no direct experience with the Curves Smart, I can’t address it specifically, but I did make some calls to the actual manufacturer who has nothing to do with Curves and from what they explained, it seems to monitor things such as ROM, speed and acceleration, reps, heart rate, etc… and modifies their “target” each workout to progress to their goal. They said it can be tailored and you can choose different fitness levels. They have a K.I.S.S. red, yellow green light system to tell the user if they are going to fast, slow or just right. I am interested in seeing it at work as from what they explained it seems interesting.
As to the rest of your message, rant all you want about Curves and the people who run it, that doesn’t matter to or affect me and has no bearing on my position, so I won’t waste my time or anyone else’s addressing your accusations and claims.
Den;
I agree with you (and I think Phil does as well) that pushing faster against a hydraulic cylinder will produce more force. But let’s face it, a 50-60 year old woman can only push so fast in 30 seconds; she will eventually reach a plateau where she is pushing as fast as she can and is only going to be able to perform x number of reps in that time. She will also reach a plateau in fitness results; that is when they get frustrated, bored and drop out. I have personally heard this from hundreds of Curves members/staff. This is the built-in inherent flaw in the Curves system- limited membership lifespan due to limited results.
Without being able to restrict the flow of the hydraulic fluid like Pace equipment does, Curves equipment is not truly adjustable.
Fitdude, And a 50-60 y/o can only lift so much. Or run so fast. Or walk so far. The same can all be said for a 20-30 or 30-40 y/o. Which of course was one of my points, no regimen is without its limits. There is ALWAYS going to be SOME limiting factor(s). You just need to decide what your goal is and find the plan with the factor(s) that limits you the least. And NO PROGRAM is a “catch all”.
I agree with you that there are limits, I said so in both my posts, BUT, the limit here is actually tied to the benefit. As I stated, since a person doing this type of program would NOT be looking to “bulk up” any increase in weight (resistance) would be tied to an increase in reps. That is exactly what “non-adjustable” hydraulic cylinders do, in order to increase your weight (resistance) you HAVE TO increase your reps. What phil deems as a fatal flaw is actually an integral part of the program. Think of it like a governor on a U-Haul truck. It stops you from going over 65mph (limiting you) but it does so to keep you (and others) safe (benefit). Now if you were trying to gain mass you would want to look at a program the would allow you to add resistance (weight) without tying it to increased reps. But that is NOT what this type of cylinder and program is designed to do. So criticizing it for not doing what it’s not trying to do is just plain silly. It’d be like taking that U-Haul on the quarter mile and complaining because you lost the race!
I get that folks here are angry with the people running Curves, but as I said in my initial e-mail, “hate the player, not the game”. You may agree with what I’m saying but phil clearly does not. He said and then said again in his response that neither reps nor resistance changes when using this type of hydraulic cylinder. That is patently false.
Den,
I wasnt saying that the hydraulic is limited to water aerobics. You are missing my point. Curves is a fixed design. There is no GPO with this program whatsoever. How long have you been doing this??
My point is that the workout is limited and if you are going to sit here and tell me that machines are adjustable you are not seeing reality!
How hard can a 60 year old women push?
the limiting factor is usually the person, In THIS case the limited factor is the machine. By pusing faster it does produce more force yes, it does. Im not disagreeing with you.
So Den, let me get this stragiht, you believe that having no adjustable equipment is part of the program?
LEt me ask you then, why, the original equipment , PACE exercise group is adjustable??Do you know how many people have been injured because they are FORCED to use a machine that they can’t adjust for their limb length?? So they dropped out? yet this is part of the design?!? Do you know anything about biomechanics???To even make that statement is nonsense.
The non adjustable factors here have nothing to do with women gaining size. Most women dont get big. They dont ahve enough testerone to get big! You do see larger women, but in general, they dont get bulky..
There is some added resistance here with hydraulics, but in order to GET to that added resistane you need to push pretty dam hard and for a 50+ year old women, it can be tough.
Den, why is it that people have gotten in great shape using free weights and traditional cardio equipment? The limitation is always the person. But in the curves system its the machines.
We had a someone come into my club to do the bicep tricep, which is more like hammer curl than a bicep curl. Regardless,the womens arms were too short to fit into the machine correctly and it didnt feel right. It hurt. So she has to skip it because her arms are too short, but THIS is part of the program you are telling me??
I agree with you as a whole, but disagree with the adjustable statement.
Oh and Den, explain to me why pace is adjsutable and curves isnt when pace is the original, dude you have your facts ROYALLY screwed up with thie adjustbility or clearly know nothing about biomechanics..
HAve you personally ever trained anyone??
HAve you ever told someone to just sit in a seat that was not designeg for him or her because, maybe she was too tall or too short??but this is part of the design, that the machine wont adjust to your height in any way..
any ordinary macine in a gym will adjust to the taller or shorter person, but curves doesnt so this is part of the design?
do you know how many women have been hurt forcing their bodies into fixed length machines that were too short for their bodies?? do me a favor, before you make a statement like the flaw is actually part of the program read a bit about bimechanics..
curves or PACE was designed to get overweight women from the house, on the couch to a basic exercise program.
THATS IT! are you going to argue that too?
And I did agree wtih our initial statement, more resistance if you push super hard…
Anyway, have a good one.
Phil
Again, I’ll address the relevant bits and leave the other stuff to someone else. How long have I been doing this? While my qualifications will not change the laws of physics, I’ve been a doctor for 20 years and my expertise is specifically in the field of biomechanics. I work with injured and FIT individuals. Whoops. And you?
I’ll start with these statements first: “There is some added resistance here with hydraulics, but in order to GET to that added resistane you need to push pretty dam hard…” and “And I did agree wtih our initial statement, more resistance if you push super hard…”
That was neither MY premise nor my statement and neither one is accurate. That was your statement I guess and your misunderstanding of how hydraulic resistance works; which is where you’ve been wrong from the get go. It’s NOT pushing HARDER that creates more resistance, it’s pushing FASTER that creates more resistance which in turn causes you to push harder. THE KEY here is that you don’t have a greater resistance UNTIL you can increase the reps. PERIOD. If you don’t (won’t) understand even that critical difference, than nothing else matters. If you are going to insist that 1 + 1 = 3 we can’t move on. However, for the benefit of others who can see past their rage against Curves, I’ll try to explain. For you Phil, unless you are willing to except the basic laws at work here, there really isn’t anything else I can do to educate you so stop reading now.
“I wasnt saying that the hydraulic is limited to water aerobics. You are missing my point.”
No, you didn’t say it is limited to water aerobics. But I didn’t say you did. What you DID say was “Ever do resistance training in a pool with paddles? Thats the same level of resistance that you’ll get with hydraulics.” And THAT is completely false and I told you why.
Let me be clear and for the 4th or 5th time – I never said that the equipment was adjustable. In that message you stated at least 3 or 4 times that I said that non-adjustable hydraulic cylinders are adjustable (and I’m not even including your out of left field stuff stating that I said all that about limb/height adjustments). What I said, and stand by, is that the RESISTANCE changes with change in velocity. It HAS TO. I can be NO OTHER WAY. Seriously, please, stop asking me to justify/back-up statements and claims that YOU are making! I can’t do it, I don’t think anyone can. But I can back up my statements, Google “hydraulic resistance in a container” or some variety of that and I’m sure you will see for your own eyes that equations that govern this.
I don’t care what PACE originally wanted to do. But if you do care, I suggest you REALLY look at what their ORIGINAL equipment was. Their current system is vastly different to what they started with. But I guess that’s OK right? Again, I’m not debating you on “Curves”. You made patently false comments with respect to the usefulness and design of non-adjustable hydraulic resistance equipment. THAT is what I am addressing. Further statements that I didn’t make: ALL your stuff regarding adjustability for height/limb length. What does ANY of that have to do with MY correcting you on your misunderstanding on how hydraulics work? But, since you are throwing a new item into the mix and are stuck on PACE equipment as the be-all-end-all, with few exceptions PACE equipment is no more nor no less adjustable for limb length than most other equipment like this. Proper positioning of the user on the equipment is critical and nearly identical on them all. But again, not what we were discussing. Shall we discuss padding thickness next? Would you like to accuse me of arguing that leather is a better covering than vinyl or vice versa?
If no one was to take a good idea and make it better, we’d all be driving Fords and taking one type of antibiotic. Get over it already. PACE makes a good system, but it’s NOT the only system and just because something isn’t PACE doesn’t mean it’s crap. And likewise, (and here is YOUR blind spot) just because Curves uses stuff that the rest of us use doesn’t mean it’s crap either. By that “logic” anyone using running squares is using crap too. I don’t know what else they do there, but I stretching OK? Can I recommend proper hydration? My point here is, and has been throughout, that you need to get over your hatred for these people and see that even if they stole everything they use and some of the stuff they use is improperly implemented, that that doesn’t mean EVERYONE else using similar stuff is wasting their time or can’t do SOMETHING ELSE with it.
1. “any ordinary macine in a gym will adjust to the taller or shorter person, but curves doesnt so this is part of the design?”
2. “curves or PACE was designed to get overweight women from the house, on the couch to a basic exercise program. THATS IT!”
3. “are you going to argue that too?”
The “too” in statement 3 assumes that I made statement 1. I did not. Also, with statement 2 you are yet again assuming that I am doing anything other than correcting your misunderstanding of how hydraulic resistance changes or that I wish to debate you on the value of Curves. I am not and do not wish to. And as I said before, just because Curves or PACE designed their regimen to do one thing doesn’t mean that EVERYONE ELSE can’t do something else with similar equipment. Can free weights ONLY be used to build mass? Can swimming ONLY be used for rehabilitation? Can steroids only be used to hit home runs?
I don’t know how many people are “forced” to do anything in a gym, so no, I can’t tell you how many have then been injured as a result of that. Can you? I’m mean actual numbers, not another guess.
Man, this is fun. Thanks stumbleupon!
Glad your having fun but the real question is have you personally been ripped off by Curves International and the crook Gary Howard Heavin? If you have and want to know what legql steps to take send an email to Sean at this site and he will forward it to me and I will be in touch with you quickly.
I’m glad I came across this site today. I’m a new, and excited, member of our local Curves. I’ve never looked forward to exercise until Curves. I know the owner wants to sell her franchise, although I don’t know 100% why. In part it’s because she works another full-time job. I’m rather upset that that detail wasn’t told me when I signed up as a member, but so be it now. I’ve been toying with looking into buying it, but now I’m putting the brakes on that possibility big-time since I’ve read of all the troubles. I’d been doing some homework and knew that there has been “some” kind of trouble surrounding Gary Heavin, but it wasn’t really until I reached this site that I learned just what the problem is. Based upon the economy and the financial problems that CI has, or will have, I’m concerned that my location won’t last. That’ll hurt me as a member but not at all as it would if I were the franchisee. I’m SO sorry for all of you hardworking owners seeing your dreams dashed and money gone. I wish you much luck on bringing the truth forth through your legal actions. And thank you for allowing me to clue in before I did something I’d probably regret.
Norma, Be real glad you found this web site. I don’t know where you are located but DO NOT consider this. Either the owner of your Curves really does not know whats going on in the CI world or she knows and wants to bail and give someone else the headaches. I just closed my club last Friday. It was like losing someone to death. I put my heart and soul into my business, loved my girls who were loyal all 7 years but Curves would not budge and change me to a percentage rate without me signing another contract, NOT!!! I did not know what was going on in the CI world until I had to make the difficult decision to close as I had not heard from anyone from CI in over 7 years. Their money was there to take so they were happy.
I gogled for someone who had closed to help me and I found the horror stories. I was done no matter what after that. I believe in the concept but I can not continue with a company that has done terrible things to people who truely care about women health and a company I can not believe in. I too, I’m afraid am in for a real bumpy ride from CI but i will ride the waves with all the dignity and grace as possible. I am not a product of them as I refused to sell my franchise to a perspective buyer that heard I was closing, stopped and asked about my club. I could never do that to someone knoowing what I know now. Do yourself a favor and if you see the word franchise, run as fast as you can the other way.
Den
there is no point in arguing with you..you are a doctor, im a trainer. We have different perspectives about fitness..and I hate to break the news to you, but I took courses specifically in water fitness and the resistance is exactly the same..
but I guess the guy who has 3 PH’ds that taught the course doesnt know as much as Den..
My statements werent false..and yes you are a doctor, what KIND of doctor? Medical doctor?
I guess you know more than veteran trainers in the fitness industry since you are a DOCTOR!
By the way, you sound like like a real asshole, did I tell you THAT part?
There is no GPO with the curves system whatsoever! After about 4-6 weeks the woman will plateau and theres it nothing that the curves system can do. But they dont tell you that.
This is a horrendus franchise to have invested in. No corporate support and nothing but lies.
den if you are so dam intelligent being a DOCTOR and all why did you come up with the idea??
or why didnt you steal the idea and market the hell out of it making it seem wonderful?
Den,
by the way in a traditional gym, you are never forced to fit into a machine like you are in a curves machine..
the curves answer is “:skip it”
Is anyone out there a Curves owner that has had to close from New York State? If so would you please let me know. I would like to talk to you if possible. Tahns for your help.
There are quite a few from NY. Send an email to Sean requesting him to forward it to me and I will try to set you up with NY owners,
This was posted on another site complaining about Phil’s post on that site and while I have refused to respond on that particular site I thought it would be a good one here as Ken Forms is obviously reading this site as well. At the end you can read our thoughts about this jerk and the way he conducts business.
“Major lawsuit in march by curves owners vs ci”
“Is there a billion dollar lawsuit with heavin and previous passed off owners in march?”
Ahhh…. And there it is. VERY subtle. I wondered what he was looking for here since it didn’t appear he was really looking for answers to his leading questions. We should have guessed: he’s looking to drum up business for the lawsuit. Gee, you aren’t a potential litigant now are you?
http://www.unhappyf ranchisee. com/curves- robert-lays- story/
Full disclosure: I’ve made it publicly clear before, there is no love lost between Robert Lay and myself. While I can’t attest to the validity of the rest of his “story”, I can state for certain that what he says about us is utterly false. My wife owns the club which Robert *claims* opened in his territory less than a mile from his existing club. In reality, we were opening in his FORMER territory which he abandoned well over four years ago (final disposition with Curves was in December 2005) – he closed his abandoned club leaving him with his club on the main street bordering the two territories. Also, we didn’t open within one mile of his club, we are well inside OUR territory and 2.6 miles from his (now closed) club because Curves would only approve a location at least that far from him – meanwhile his club was literally right on the territorial border. Nice. Prior to and since opening Robert has: made harassing calls to my wife (though he never returned any of MY calls, hmmmm…), he came into our club during construction yelling at the contractors/ workers there that this was “his territory” and an “illegal build…everyone was going to [get arrested]”, he’s never sent a dime for any pre-pay transfers we’ve gotten, he has drafted members for MONTHS after transferring despite receiving HAND CARRIED and signed for transfer requests, now, according to some of our new transfers, he even drafted accounts just days before closing in September 2009 and to my knowledge has not sent on any funds for ANY of his prepaid transfers that went to surrounding clubs (just spoke with one) when he closed – BTW, he gave out and posted a notice to his members that in part told them to go to Fitness 19 (so much for “helping” out “other owners” eh?), in the same notice he appears to accuse one of the two local Smart clubs of “illegal” and “unethical” billing practices and that “[they] charge $39 to all members who transfer…it is illegal and unethical for them to do so.” (n.b. neither of us, and to my knowledge no one in the valley, charges $39 for CD membership (smart or other)), right after we opened he even had his lawyer draw up and send papers threatening to drag us into court for opening our club, then he accused me of “slander and libel” asking that I be removed from THIS site for posting such scurrilous messages like this:
the list goes on and on, (FYI, ALL this is documented with statements from those involved to cover my ass) but you get the idea and all of this along with other stuff that has happened to myself and other owners is why we now have cameras at our club pointing out and we document EVERY conversation/ e-mail/piece of mail/fax/etc… that goes to them or is about them.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, MANY people got screwed and have been mistreated by CI, but I can’t see how anyone would want these people “leading their charge” representing their “side”.
First off the territory in question was never abandoned by us and both Ken Forms and his wife were fully aware of that long before they tried to buy that franchisee from Curves International. There is a law suit at this time concerning that franchise territory that has been filed in the courts in Waco TX. that is working its way through the legal system which our attorney fully expects to win or they wouldn’t have taken it on contingency. His club, furthermore is way less than 1 mile from our location for that territory on Ann Road and we certainly did go to his club when the build out was being done and put a delay on construction for over 30 days. Our lawyer’s in Las Vegas could have gotten a restraining order stopping it from even opening if we had put up a retainer of 15,000 dollars which we decided not to do as our fight at that time as well as now is with Curves International for selling that territory which was still in mediation allowed by our contract with Curves International. We closed our Club on Craig Road at the end of September and most certainly did charge members for that month. Our billing cycle was always on the 5th and the 20th so once again Kenny doesn’t have his facts correct. Now he states that we sent members when we closed to Fitness 19. Once again he should get his facts straight before he makes outlandish statements such as that. In the letter we sent out to all members we listed all health clubs in our area including his club and gave them the option of going and checking them all out before they made a decision on where to go. So far 99 percent of the members that have transferred to another club have gone to the club that was on our western border not to Kenny’s club. But that certainly doesn’t surprise us at all because even his members complain that his wife is such a bitch she won’t even let members chew gum and workout at the same time. Than he states that he has installed cameras to protect him from all the stuff that has happened to him. He is obviously referring to the smash and grab burglaries in the past where his computers were stolen and his house burglaries where everything was stolen when he was in Ireland. Gee Kenny maybe it’s because you have bad karma. Why not tell us all about how you lost your clubs in Ireland? Maybe its just another example of your bad luck or karma? I guess you just don’t get it do you Kenny? What you put out in life you get back 2 fold and your chickens are just now coming home to roost. You know it is well known that your members can’t stand your wife as she is such a bitch that she won’t even let members chew gum and workout at the same time.
Now I don’t know who Phil is but you are right on one thing Kenny I am leading the charge against Curves International and support all the lawsuits group action and individual. I have helped over 1000 owners close their Curves and avoid the illegal and quite ridiculous charges that Curves International has tried to intimidate owners into paying. I have worked with 60 minutes to do a documentary on the fall of Curves International which is planned to air sometime after the first of the year and I’m sure you are going to love that program as you, Kenny and your wife, Mary, will be featured on it as well. Oh and by the way Kenny when our lawsuit is over with Curves International and we win we will be coming after you and Mary so we will see you in court in the not to distant future. That’s a promise not an idle threat.
I’m going to at least give this guy credit for posting this website that people could link to, since you didn’t feel it necessary to tell us which forum this came from.
The fact that you found a lawyer to take the case on contingency doesn’t necessarily mean that they think they will win in court, they may like the idea of a settlement. I’m sure if they could get a settlement of $20mil and take their 30% cut, they would make back the time that they put into the case at this point. Lawyers take contingency cases all the time in the hopes that the other side would rather pay a settlement than spend additional attorney fees.
Also, I’m assuming that the case that is talked about is Momentum Marketing v Curves, since it seems to be the largest case in their 2008 UFOC. If that’s the case, Gary was dismissed as a defendant according to what I read.
I’m sure Phil knows the web site and of course so does Kenny but just for your information it was the Yahoo group curves owners site that all owners should belong to even if they are lurkers as they call them on that site. You are right in the statement “The fact that you found a lawyer to take the case on contingency doesn’t necessarily mean that they think they will win in court, they may like the idea of a settlement” but it usually means that you have a pretty good case that they feel if it went to court you would win. Obviously the lawyers would almost always take a settlement if the dollar amount was sufficient No our case is not the Momentum Marketing case mentioned in the UFOC. Ours wasn’t filled until around March of this year. the UFCO doesn’t even list all of the suits filled but you can get a full listing of the suits by using a PACER search and for $2.50 you can read and copy all the court documents on each case and there are quite a few filled just this year. here is a site you can go to see some of them but again I have found it not to be totally accurate
http://dockets.justia.com/search?q=Curves+International%2C+Inc.
im skimming over this story here, but if someone believes that corporate wouldnt open a club near another or resell a once live club, not defunct is ignorant.
Corporate tried to sell a territory less than 1.5 miles from us. They didnt know what the area was, and if they did they wouldnt open there. It was not a safe area at all..BUT corporate didnt care..
they saw an opportunity to sell a territory and they heard about it..
I dont think actually did open it, but the intention was there!
Read the story at the top of the page and you will get the drift of how crooked not only Howie is but some of his franchise owners as well!!!!!
Need that list of NY owners ASAP. No much longer to decide what I want to do. Would like to notify a few. Thanks
At the curves convention Heavin had the audacity to state the following:—–”
Lawsuits: Law firm trolled, finding unhappy franchisees who paid them $6k each. He showed a video narrated by Joan Rivers of the lawyers humongous home, luxury cars (Brantley’s and more), the wife’s closet [Which may be bigger than some of our homes]
Curves has won every significant motion. A California judge threw out of court. Only half of plaintiff’s remain. All courts moved jurisdiction to Texas, so all cases will be tried there. “We will not be bullied or intimidated through extortion.”________
This man Howie is incapable of telling the truth. No one has had to pay 6K to join any of the law suits and they have lost every major and minor motion in the court nad have only been able to prolong the trials by delaying them. This man can use the excuse that he wont be intimidated and bullied through extortion and yet that is how he has tried to run his business. Do I need to give examples such as the closing fee, mutual release form which isn’t, and the equipment not being owned by the owners, etc etc etc . this man needs to find Christianity and be put in jail along with his wife.
Hi tickedoff,
send an email with your phone number and e-mail address on it to unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com requesting Sean to forward it to me and I will put you in touch with someone that can help you.
Curves International is responsible. I shouldn’t have to compete with another Curves location 3 miles down the road, on the same street. Who does that?
We couldn’t agree more. San Francisco is only about 47 sq. miles total, and Curves International sold 15 franchises in that area. We were all a little more than a mile apart from each other. We share the same stories as those above — lost large amounts of money (and time), bankruptcies, etc., which led to the majority of clubs eventually closing their doors. There are now only 4 clubs left. There was no way we all could have competed in a market where neighboring clubs were a mere five-minute drive away from each other. All this created was a lot of clubs with huge city rents and small memberships — effectively emptying our pockets and filling the bankrolls of the Heavins and Curves International.
Listen people, I have been in the fitness industry for over a decade. Not a ton of time, but more than just a few years.
CI got greedy and aw oppiortunity to make money, their bottomline and they are now on their way out.
We were struggling like many other clubs in the country about 6 months ago to retain members. So what does CI do?
They did a search for my area and saw some territory that was not inhabited by a curves so they attempted to actually research the area and with the intent of opening another club about 10 minute from me. I dont think they actually did but they were looking to.
I wrote a rather nasty and direct email to someone at corporate, dont recall their name telling them that clubs are struggling so you are contemplating opening another club and killing the existing clubs that are already injured?
Their ARROGANT response..”We are in the business of selling franchsies, nothign else.”
In the year 2009 they have, what 5000 clubs and more closing daily.
I joined a yahoo list serv and expressed my utter disgust with corporate. NOT with the workout!
After spending a substantial amount of money on the business, whether it was advertising, or products to help the business we end up with a business that has gone from 795 to just under 600. Now many tell me that I shhould be grateful for having 500+ members. I never said I wasnt grateful, but my grip is WHY doesnt corporate advertise??
heavin can certainly talk about his private jet and his mansion at club camp which in my opinion is not a place for that to be discussed. Yet when clubs are starving for members and he talks about things like that makes me mad.
He has LIED directly to us at club camp when he said, expect agressive marketing on TV.
Of the 690 women in my club, NOT ONE ever says I saw a curves ad. Whether its is a guest or a current member, neither ever says that!
We pay ex amount of dolars for advertsing and yet get zero out of it.
Curves moto back a few years was to be the McDonalds of fitness center. They did that and they forced a situation where cannibalism basically occured.
We fought each other for members.
The sad truth is that Heavin and his goons down in waco do a good job of pr. A great job of pf. He has managed to brainwash so many people into believieng his crap its sad…
people really are dumb!
Then he goes onto to market curves smart recently. Curves smart DOES motivate and keep the women interested. It is interesting to see caloric expenditure and what not. However this technology has not helped clubs retain members.
Curves needed a new idea, something to bring life back to a stale idea…and curves smart was that attempt.
Apparently while it helps and the ladies love it, it didnt do a dam thing to help membership grow.
Being part of a co-op Ive recieved numerous club closing emails in the past few months and those clubs HAD CURVES SMART.
There are three problems on the corporate level that will eventually lead to the demise or curves..if not the demise, the shrinking..major shrinking..
1. Any successful business man, or CEO doesnt have his family running the business. Of all the business courses I took in college, this was always frowned upon. You just DONT DO IT! Even in a small family business it can be bad.
2. Super fast growth only to take a nose dive a decade later.
3. Lack of ADVERTISING to where curves market will likely go to see the ad! They took the cheap way out with ads. Ads need to be multi faceted approach. Tv, online, radio maybe… not just one method. Since when does just ONE ad method do the trick? rarely..
I dont wish harm upon anyone ever. However, I do think certain people that mislead and lye and backstab like heavin or someone like bernie madoff needs to be brought down. Madoff Was. Now its time for heavin to pay the price.
IT is painful to see people pour their live savings into their dream business opportunity only to walk away and write it off as a loss because corporate turned its back.
CI should be ashamed of itself. Someone needs to expose them and quick! They are already on a decline…might as well be honest with the people and just put a nail on the coffin..
I own a club presently and Im saying this because the way things are, I dont kow if I will own a club in the next 6 months!
while the above post is nice it was not written by unhappy
to the anonymous CI employee,
your honesty is appreciates, Lord knows or company is anything but. I know how it is to be in the position to say ,” hey I just work here.” and not really have anything to do with CI’s crap.
Thanks for posting and being honest. Its very apparent and quite frankly, down right scary!
all of these posting here, even dating back to 07 are MORE than valid and just, but it blows my mind how people can STILL cheer for CI??
What gives?? seriously. I mean Ive heard that people can be dumb, but my goodness people, do you like getting it shoved to you and smiling about me??
do you like being walked to the execution chamber and being happy about it (unless you are mentally ill that is)???
After the expose comes out do you really think curves will be around and who in their right mind will want to join? Oh and remember don’t chew gum and work out as you may get expelled. At least form hairy’s club oh I mean marys club.
what kind of exposure is this going to be and on what station?
who is this guy in the above post as it is not unhappy don’t use my call name the real unhappy not the imposter
thank you for changing your post to unhappy 2 but maybe you should post under a different name to stop the confusion —-thanks
Sorry about that unhappy…where are located and are you having issues too?
I own a curves and am too struggling to get by… I have owned for 1 1/2 now and making no profit. I would like to close the doors but don’t want to dissapoint my members, but it may be my last resort. What will be the closing costs or penalty for breaking franchise contract. Please email me.
Just a lot of idle harassment and intimidation so when k you get to the closing stage send an email to Admin the moderator at unhappyFranchisee[at]gmail.com and have him forward it to me and I will give you some advise on what to expect and how to handle it. the real unhappy who is getting happier every day
Wow, after reading through so many posts, SO much needs clarification. (No, I don’t work for CI). I do feel sympathy for everyone who has been screwed over, and know the 10,000 closing fee is totally ridiculous, and illegal. But still:
1) Curves smart is not manufactured in Mexico, it’s manufactured in Ontario, at the same facility where you call for technical support. (Franchise owners from Ontario can back this up). The inventor is a man named Reed Hanoun, not Gary Heavin.
2) As business owners, how can you not understand that Curves is out to sell franchises? That’s it, bottom line. It’s a big corporate structure, NO corporation really cares about the little guy, and of course their contracts will do everything to get money out of you, just as almost any franchise does. While that doesn’t excuse them from not advertising on your behalf, how could you buy into something that markets itself as “the McDonalds” of fitness, and NOT expect over saturation? Ever been on a street with like 7 McDonald’s? I have!
3) If you live in a town with less than 10, 000 people, how did you expect this to go well in the long term? If the town doesn’t have a high turn-over rate in the population, you have no new feed of new members. Plus you have to factor in that even so-called “potential” members may not be into fitness and will never walk through that door!
4) Mytrak makes CurvesSmart. But Curves owns the CurvesSmart name, so yes you can get the Mytrak system for other places, it just won’t be called CurvesSmart, it will be called Mytrak.
5) Mytrak is a separate entity from Curves, meaning that if Curves makes it that the equipment is not adjustable, how can the CurvesSmart possibly be adjusted to the equipment? This is Curves’ fault.
6) Curves is not right to pressure owners to get the CS system, however, if you did get it, it’s to benefit your members, you can’t possibly blame mytrak that installing CS didn’t bring you more members. You fell for Curves hype.
7) Again, I sympathize, but from a business perspective, of course Curves is going to try to suck money out of you when you’re failing, because if you’re failing, so are they, as any business would do, they are going to try to keep money, as that member claims Robert is doing.
8)I understand the frustration and financial undoings of many people here, and don’t agree with Curves, or what they’re doing to their franchisees. However, when a member is complaining that they feel mistreated (whatever the case may be here) everyone gangs up on her, and says “so what, what’s your piddly amount of money to people in real debt. You concerns are invalid” So how is Curves supposed to feel for you, when that’s how you feel about people being hurt by your business closure? $30 or whatever may seem like nothing to do when you’re in 60g’s of debt, but maybe for someone else that’s a few meals or something.
9) Sometimes you walk into the tiniest Curves ever, and while they’re cute, would you pay roughly $30 per month for a facility like that, when you can be involved with places that offer way more for the same amount?
9) If this member was billed for the month ahead as she says, then how is it NOT taking money from her? If she is in fact mistaken on the billing cycle, why doesn’t anyone clarify?
10) This is supposed to be a forum for discussion, but when anyone says anything that isn’t 100% anti-curves, people are resorting to name calling!
11) Re-read Den’s posts for how hydraulics work, and how you won’t just plateau. ie. If a 60 year old woman can only move so fast, she would have plateau’d anyway! If you’re a trainer reading this, you couldn’t have expected a limited circuit to continue to help someone for all time. Eventually they would need to change styles, change exercises etc. to continue to see results.
12) Curves was marketed to women to run their own business with no business training. Big mistake on Curves’ part (or good sell, depending on how you look at it) but even bigger mistake on the buyers parts. What made you think you could run a successful, functioning business, with no business training, on a model that markets itself as TRYING to saturate the market…..it just blows my mind over and over! Even without Curves the fitness market is largely saturated!
13) If you treat people like babies while they’re working out (not allowed to chew gum??? Grade school anyone?) then don’t be surprised if members don’t come back. The way you treat your customers, and customer service is almost all that counts in industry anymore.
Not trying to step on anyone’s toes, but before signing my life away on a contract, I would read it over, with a lawyer, and know every damn facet before I agree to anything. That being said, good luck with your lawsuit, Curves is illegally charging you closing fees, and not holding up their end of the contract, through lack of advertising, and putting people too close together despite territory rules, and making you sell things that do not benefit your franchise, but only Curves. I hope you rake them over the coals.
A Curves member is billed for $117 FIVE YEARS after she stopped working out at the club.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-thu-problem-1112nov12,0,5588073.column
Wipedout: Thanks for the link.
All: please read and comment:
CURVES: Complaints of Unauthorized Membership Charges
Here’s the Question: How widespread is the practice of questionable or fraudulent billing by desperate Curves franchise owners?
curves greed will lead to their downfall. Curves makes the mistake by being greedy and the individual owners pay for it. Franchises fail, no guarantee you will survive, BUT when corporate, out of greed sells curves franchises like 5 feet from each other how can each one survive?
yet clubs close their doors and curves fines us?
Im sorry I ever got involved with this company. First of all its a disgrace. They are all good at PR, but not much else.
What I also dont understand is why , knowing how screwed up CI is, how people can still cheer for them?? they did a hell of a job brainwashing people!
I hope Howard is taken down and pays for his greed.
Can someone also tel me why people think its ok to work the same muscle every day and not think it is overtraining??
granted they dont take the muscle to failure or fatigue, but it makes the program even more boring that much faster..
That was an interesting article you posted Wipedout and the follow up question by the Admin was quite appropriate. While I would give the owner the benefit of the doubt at this time. I would like to reserve final judgment to see if the owner pays it promptly now and would hope that there is a follow up story letting us know how it is resolved
If you click on the site CURVES: Complaints of Unauthorized Membership Charges you will see my response to the admin question shortly.
for all you curves franchisees..
i just found out from a mytrak rep that curves international never had the intent of advertising curves smart..
they dont care to advertise it so heavin lied again..what an asshole..
Does that surprise you?
I closed my club on Oct. 30th after being open for a little over 4 years. It was located in a small town and I had 27 members when I closed. My highest membership was about 150. After the first year, there was an exodus of members calling to cancel their memberships because they did not have time or had to drive too far. My now ex husband had tried to talk me into selling or closing the club two years ago, but I was hoping to turn it around and that the economy would get better. I didn’t think it was doing well enough to sell. A year ago, my husband and I separated, partly due to the stress from Curves, partly due to his affair with another woman.
Before I closed, I took my franchise agreement to an attorney to ask his advice on closing curves after CI would not respond to my phone calls. He said he could only help me if I filed bankruptcy. He also said the franchise agreement was for 5 years and that CI had 180 days before the 5 year term is up to send me a certified letter asking if I wanted to renew my agreement and I would have 30 days to respond. If I did not respond within 30 days, CI would assume that I wanted to renew my agreement for another 5 years.
I have to admit, I never fully read the franchise agreement, but that should not give CI the right to hold me in bondage and not allow me to close a business for which I can’t even meet payroll and taxes. I was losing $2000 a month from my personal money and I have two kids to support. CI has their money for the franchise and is free to resell it to anyone they would like. I just had to cut my losses and get out.
My ex sent me an email that supposedly was forwarded from CI but I can’t believe some of the demands that were made “in order for Curve International to ‘work with you.’” I had 2 options. Option 1 – sell my club. (After reading option 2, there’s no way I’m going to sell to another “victim”). Option 2 – After completing a list of closing procedures, send them 10K AND then: either donate my machines to another Curves club (nobody ever donated anything to me!) or women’s correctional facility, OR take the cylinders off and ship them to the company that I bought the machines from (a subsidiary of CI?) at my expense, remove the padding and DONATE it to another Curves club, and then sell the machine skeletons for scrape and send CI the receipt and money that’s left after reimbursing any members for which reimbursements are owed.
I bought the machines, I didn’t borrow, lease, or rent them. Those demands are so rediculous, it doesn’t even warrant a response! If anyone out there is going through the same thing with closing, or if anyone wants to help me warn current franchisees of what’s in store for them if the economy in their town goes bad or if they have to close for any reason, I would appreciate any help and suggestions. I can’t imagine anyone in their right mind actually sending CI money and destroying their machines, as well as giving up their business rights. And then CI is still free to sell the territory again! I will probably have to go to court in Waco but if I do, whatever treatment CI gives me, they better be proud to have it made public knowledge.
I don’t look for Curves to be here much longer. I think it grew too big too fast and Gary Heaven got his eyes off of Christ and started focusing on mammon. I think he did start off as a christian though. We all need to pray for him that he will come back to the Lord.
Welcome to the club and get some solace in the fact that you are not alone. I agree with you that we need to get more attention on this as it is public knowledge. I am working on this now and if your truly interested send and email with your phone number on it to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com at this site and he will forward it to me. Hopefully we can get in touch and get a spotlight on this matter. I have to question whether Howie was ever a christian but the real founders of this company certainly were and it’s a shame Howie ran them off in o3.
Dear “Lost my Life Savings”
Thank you for sharing your story with others on this website and for opening the window on the malicious contracts that contain terms that punish franchisees for their failure to be able to make a living with the franchise they bought in great good faith,
Even if you had read the contract, you probably wouldn’t have understood that the franchisor would demand a “failure” fee, because it defies fairness and logic that franchisees should be further punished because they are losing their entire investments. Hard to imagine the malice of ten-year franchise agreements and long-term leases in view of the attorneys’ knowledge and the governments knowledge that, according to statistics, 50% of the franchisees will fail out of business sometime in the first five years
I can’t imagine that a judge woud uphold this $10,000 “failure fee” if he knew the story would become public and I can’t imagine that Curves would want that kind of publicity. But, remember that the attorney who wouldn’t take your case unless you declare bankruptcy is aware that the judges do uphold the terms of the contracts and grant judgmentam and that the franchisors’ unconscionable practices are protected by 30 years of case law made since the Federal Government took franchisors out from the common law fraud and securities laws of the states.
Franchising is all about mammon for the franchisor who has to cannibalize his franchisees to himself survive. Remember that the franchisors borrow against the signed contracts of the franchisees to expand internationally in a kind of Ponzi scheme that appears innocent and wears a pretty face to good faith buyers of franchises.
Democracy, Capitalism, and Christianity used to be somewhat equal partners in our National economy but this business model is not compatible with democracy or Christianity.
May God be with you and comfort and guide you in the days ahead!
Carol
to unhappy,
no it doesnt. But this man is a seriously large asshole. He was at one point a senior sales man for pace group exercise, the original hydraulic and he uses those salesman skills today to con people into buying his shit!
Its a shame that most people dont see the assholes that make up CI.
A club closed near me recently, losing 28 members in ONE day due to competition from two other fitness clubs in the area about 10-15 minutes away at a much lower cost.
She still has members, but way too few to remain open.
She called an area directory for support and the area directors response was, “I can’t help you, you need to hire an attorney.”
What load of crap is that!
Curves NEEDS to go away. Granted other franchisees probably have issues too as nothing is perfect, but im just tired of the lies and the bullshit Howard Heavin feeds us.
Just because he IS a wealthy man doesnt mean he will remain a wealthy man. It wont be the first time people have made and lost fortunes due to greed and lies!
To unhappy, have you heard anything about a story airing in march regarding the lies and bs from CI? I think it was something Robery Lay was working on…
has anyone heard that the total amount of clubs left in the us is 500?
I was told by a neighbor club that she read somewhere hes down to 500 clubs!
She wasnt confusing it with the latest mytrak release that says 500 clubs signed up for the new software…
He has gone bankrupt before so it wouldn’t surprise me to see him lose it all. The old saying what comes around goes around does seem to come true more often that not. There are more that 500 clubs still open somewhere around 4,500 at this time. But that is world wide so in the States who knows how many are left. Howie surly knows but he’s not talking. We do know that around a 100 clubs a month have been closing in the U S alone. It’s funny that he still advertises that there is over 10,000 clubs as can be seen on the Curves Web site which we all know is not true. There are several national articles that will be coming out about Curves after the first of the year. If you are interested in getting involved and telling your horror story send an email to Sean at this web site. He will forward the information to me and I will send you the contact information of who you need to get a hold of to put in your complaints about Howie’s business tactics.
He has gone. Bankrupt before?
When. Did this happen?
I have just started reading on this sight and have a question about closing and starting up another.
If I were to start another exercise gym with this equipment and get it going while I was still operating as Curves just long enough to see if it would work, lowering prices and maybe going co-ed, what are the chances they would find out and would they be coming around once I tell them I have closed my doors. If I have done this and have closed out the curves account and they can not draw out their money, besides the threats what would they do? Want very much to keep a gym open but need to get a little money in to hire some help as for the most part I am here by myself. Have one lady who volounteers one afternoon a week and another that comes in for the last two hours twice a week and we open at 5am.
Barbara;
As a non-franchise competitor of Curves, I have helped several former Curves owners open their own clubs after closing their Curves location (obviously, I cannot give you any names or locations, because some of these people were in violation of their franchise agreement or non-compete agreement). Granted, the chances of anyone from corporate ever coming to visit are slim, but you would be opening yourself to exposure of litigation if you were to do this .
If you do go through with this, I have a suggestion on going coed. I would suggest a combination of women only hours during the day, then coed hours in the evening. As you know, one of the major reasons for the success of women’s clubs has been the fact that many women do not want to work out with men around; even out of shape men. But there are as many out of shape men out there as women and many of these men are just as intimidated at the idea of working out in a hardcore coed gym. You will probably get a lot of senior couples working out together as well as overweight couples (Weight Watchers is coed).
Good luck.
I have wondered about this also. We have been in business for 8 years and if it weren’t for other business interests, we would be out of business also. If we could close and reopen without paying the $600/monthly (franchisee and advertising fees) we still wouldn’t be getting rich, but would at least be able to show a little profit. We are in a very small market, and would like to be able to stay open just for our “ladies” . In rereading the contract it looks like we would have to wait at least a year not to be in violation. Of course, that doesn’t address the equipment issue. There are about 8 Curves still operating in my state, and I think most of the problem would come from them “informing”. Oh my! what a mess.
Judy,
Your contract has a do not complete clause which some states will up hold while others won’t. You need to check your state laws before you proceed trying to do that. Send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com requesting it to be forwarded to me with your phone number and I’ll gladly explain how you can get around it if you really want to do it.
I purchased a resale of 2 curves in Burlington County NJ. in 2004. What a BIG MISTAKE ! From the first month that I took over the clubs both have consistently
lost revenue each and every month. I tried to sell in 2007 each club for
$25,000.00. Couldn’t sell them or give them away. I paid $550,000.00 so you can imagine how I feel. My Payment to the bank was $8,300.00 each month for 5 years. Slowly this franchise destroyed my family. My retirement and savings are gone. I feel that Curves International ok’d the deal I made to purchase these clubs knowing it couldn’t survive. There are too many clubs. When you think of weight lose you don’t think of Curves you think of Jenny Craig or Nutrisystem. The advertising for Curves is useless. On September 30, 2009 I had to close one club. Curves is demanding future royalties and advertising fees, which I have no intention of paying. My other club is on the verge of closing also. I wish I could go back in time and made the decision not to purchase these clubs. My life has just been devastated every month trying to figure out where am I going to get the money to pay for this failing business. I guess I’m one of the lukcy ones though, I still have my home to live in.
can we do the silver sneakers on our own instead of going through curves?
Is go figure a program that is directly linked to curves or can we use it for other businesses? If I were to go co-ed and maybe lower my prices would curves have a problem with checkdraft amounts? Lots of little questions keep croping up. Hope I am not being a pest.
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To D. Capone,
I completely understand your frustration. I feel for you totall1 We bought our club at a nice membership of 749 members. We werent aware of the rapid decline curves was in.
Almost two year later we are hovering around 589..which is still a nice size, but we survive ONLY beause other clubs in the area are closing..thats no way to do it. BUT corporate did this.
Howard heavin, the lying sack of shit he is oversold terrorteries knowing dam well that many would fail but he did it anyway.
Now curves has what, 4900 clubs left and closing more every day?
The latest bullshit with this club is that we no longer have acccess to curves products like socks and shirts of the month which added to our revenue..
Curves is a failure at a corporate level. Just because someone was at one point a billionarre doesnt mean he or she will stay a billionaire.
The workout itself is fine for the demographics it is designed for. However, I question where out advertising money is going??
do you know that curves decided to NOT market curves smart?
I hate to say it, but we also lost members to other cheaper health clubs like planet fitness and fitness 19..at 19 a month who wouldnt leave!
I sincerely hope heavin looses everything for the greif he causes people..like yourself and others in the same boat!
Good luck seriously! I hope things turn around for you!
hello all. happy holidays. i hope. on monday we closed our second club. my atttitude towards c.i. is bad. when they asked me if I’ve made arrangements to take down my sign I wish I’d responded, “let’s see…. feed my children or pay to remove your name? hmmm…. ” I just told them, i think it’s something i have to negotiate with my landlord. how dare they even ask?
the same thing with the leasing company for curves smart. so they’re all set to give me the song and dance about finding a buyer to assume the lease, then they “notice” that i already had a club close. so the woman’s tone of voice changes and she says, well we’ll have to call you back. but first she did make the observation that our area was “oversold with locations”. hmmm… they noticed that too, did they?
As a Curves owner, we have always practiced good business ethics. We have never used collections other than a non-threating letter informing them of credit card errors or nsf checks in hope that the member would make good. Once in a blue moon, another letter would be sent. After that a member was archieved. Maybe being a nice guy hasn’t paid off in the business sense, but the christainity that was preached to us during club camp has always been upheld by myself and employees. In the next two weeks we will be letting our members know that we are closing our doors. I’ve met a lot of wonderful people and am not looking forward to giving them the news. I have seen signs of “its just about the money” by CI. One instance is them selling marked down vitamins due to expire within a month or so of purchase. I ended up giving them away to my members. Up to about 2 months ago the weight management books could be purchased individually. Smaller clubs such as ours could buy a couple books at a time (couldn’t afford to buy a case). Wouldn’t you know it, I had a lot of ladies sign up for the class – went to order the books and you could know longer buy them individually – YOU HAD TO BUY A CASE!!!! I’ve had calls reminding us that we needed to fulfill our obligation to attend club camp. I informed them that we had fulfilled that obligation and after they did a check……….they did confirm our fulfillment. That didn’t stop them from trying to get us to attend again for a refresher………..well, we all know how much money that they getting for that!!!
We have a ten year lease……..all I see online is a copy of the 5 year lease that has a date of 04/06 on the bottom. How come there is a ten and five year contract? Can anyone shed some light on this.
Did anyone see the convention videos form last month? They make me sick. Or let me rephrase that, Heavin makes me sick.
He tells us that its out own attitude or mental psychie that lets us down it has nothing to do with the economy or his lack of advertising..
he is a GOOD salesmen.. and nothing more..
makes me sick to my stomach
When Curves first started all they had was 10 year agreements but in late 04 they changed and went to the five year contract. All contracts now are 5 years.
Some of you are saying that you cannot make it with x amount of members. I wish I had that many. When I took over this store 2 years ago it had 129 members and was holding its own. Today I have 48. I even went so far as to have c i help me with getting ready for open house. What a laugh that was. Knew I was in trouble then and there when not a single person came. It has been a struggle. Gain a few and lose a few. The day I have to dip into my pocket to pay a bill is the day I lock the door. I love my members as if they were family and I hate for that day to come. Not complaining, it had been a ride of a different sort. All of this is not Heavins fault, a lot has to do with the times but he certainly should have taken a different road if he really wanted to see the money keep coming into his bank account. He sure messed that up and it is only going to get worse for all of us.
I don’t see how you can stay open with only 48 members. What size of territory do you have? You are right it is only getting worse for all Curves owners and the worst is yet to come>
Have all the Curves which closed or are closing filled out and completed the “closing packet” from Curves. I see in the packet that you can donate the equipment to a women’s prison. I have a non-profit church camp that would like the equipment……..guess that is out of the question?????
We have about 5 thousand in our town. The surrounding towns, most of which are smaller are too far away for the ladies to drive, or so they say.
I really need to sell my equipment as I do have a couple of small loans out that really need to be paid before I close the doors. I started running an ad for men to join at certain hours. Give a little prayer for us.
unhappy you say the worst has yet to come? how do you mean?
does anyone know how many of these clubs are actually left?
I ask my area director yesterday for help in maintaining this business, let alone growing it and she tells me, dont expect any help from corporate.. in a “diplomatic” way.”
She tells me its our clubs responsibility to survive, not corporate’s.
I told her for the advertising fee we pay each month, its a disgrace not to see where the money is going and she isn’t being honest.
I think she IS being honest when she says “Don’t expect any help from corporate in a ‘diplomatic’ way.” She is paid by CI and probably can’t say much more. CI made it plain to me that they didn’t intend to negotiate in any reasonable manner when they sent the crazy email to my ex regarding their requirements in order for them to “work with you” or me. (Read my story posted on November 27.) They are desperately trying to hold on to what they have and so, in the process are losing franchisees FAST! They are probably having to use the advertising fees to pay other bills. Gary has quit trusting God and has put his faith in himself and his attorneys. It won’t be much longer before he loses everything if he continues on his present course.
Lost Life,
true, she was probably being honest. I dont think he really cares about whats going on in the field. Afterall HE did this..
He probably figured, hell with it, Ill make a fortune selling my stolen idea so what?
I will have made my billions..
I just dont think they care..im sorry..I wish he would lose everything just because of what hes done to people..
I know someone that knows him personally..that he (being howard) used to work for years ago, that told me he wished I never got involved with CI. I will never find a more deceptive , dishonest, yet slick individual than howard..
hes a good salesmen and seems very sincere but hes quite the opposite..
as far as area directors, they are useless..
Carol where is the church camp located ? I’m sure we can find you equipment if we know the area as I don’t think any owners will want to ship it to them because of the cost involved but there is probably an owner close by that has closed .
I’m just wondering…is there anyone out there (someone that closed before their agreement was up and did NOT resell) who has actually gone to court against CI in Waco and what was the outcome? And what did you do with your machines? I hope you didn’t actually destroy them. They were yours! Did you send CI any money for a settlement? I can’t imagine anyone actually sending CI anything after paying for a franchise and the cost of operating it, and then having to walk away from their investment. Please tell us about your experience and what you would do differently, if anything (other than ‘never get involved with CI!’). We need to hear from you!
For the Score keeper – 2 more Curves closings.
We closed our two Clubs in October 2009, after 3 1/2 years in business. These were a re-sale Purchases, and had been open 5 and 2 years prior. We filed for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy in the US Bankruptcy Court and just had our first hearing. All of the assets (including the equipment) now belong to the Bank that had loaned us the funds for purchase.
A year ago there were 7 Clubs in our area, now there are 3. Two other owners consolidated their 2 clubs to one, negotiating with Curves for reduced closing fees.
When I notified Curves of our closing, I received the -e-mail that many have mentioned, “either complete the resale forms or submit $10,000 closing fee”. I began searching the WEB for information about Curves, and discovered this site.
During the past months, I have found you all to be a “Support Group”. Thank you. The different stories have made us realize we are not alone in dealing with a business failure.(We are sorry for the heartache and loss)
Early on, I had the priviledge to talk with Robert Lay, who provided insight into different options. Unfortunately, bankruptcy was the only option we could afford.
I believe there is a reason for everything, and am confident we will weather this storm too, broke but much wiser.
We apologized to our loyal members and staff, that we had to lay off. We did pay all refunds, payroll and taxes, from personal savings/loans, which had supplemented operations for the past 18 months. (Curves even got their Oct Ad and Franchise fees in November, before we could close the bank accounts.
We’ll see what the next steps bring.
I wish everyone a Merry Christmas, and hopefully a better new year, as we each separate ourselves from Curves International, and the Amaze Yourself Franchise.
Merry Christmas to your family too and a Happy New Year and thanks for posting here as it certainly helps knowing that there are many other owners who have had to deal with the problems that Howie boy has caused. It is a shame that he has so far been able to perpetuate this fraud and deceit to so many unsuspecting individuals. For those of us who have decided to sue our day in court will becoming up real soon and and hopefully Howie boy will get his much deserved reward in the amount of a huge settlement.
Carol – you should probably feel comfortable doing whatever you want with your equipment. the last thing I was told by CI (both in February and in December this year) was to donate it to a “non-profit serving women or students”. But my contract says I own my equipment and CI just has the “first right of refusal to purchase my equipment back from me for $1500 (and that’s only the original 8 pieces described earlier in the contract). Find your contract and read it. Additionally, though CI pretends it isn’t so, this right of refusal that they are ignoring pertains no matter how the contract ended, by being voided (as in my ending it by closing my store early) or finishing the license.
BTW, today’s yahoo lists the top ten cities where home values have continued to climb during these last two years. WACO is number 6, and 6 or the ten are in Texas. So I guess that’s another part of how his perspective on the world is so different from mine.
Today, I had the blessings of the county sheriff as my husband and I broke a window to get back into “our house” to finish clearing out our stuff. The mortgage company had given us until Dec 24th to do that, then locked it up tight last weekend. When we tried to work with them to get to it this weekend, they forgot to finish the paperwork in time. (probably had a holiday party to get to). That kind of experience is obviously very foreign to this guy.
I only have one small personal loan out on my business. Can i file for any kind of bankrutcy without having any big debt,and does this money owed curves at closing count?
Happy New Year Agatha,
Start calling your local bankruptcy law firms. You may have to wait awhile to get an appointment.
There are several varieties of bankruptcy out there (within the confines of the chapter 7, chapter 11, or chapter 13 category). Consultations are free and can answer all your questions. We did three consultations over several months before deciding what to do. Some bankruptcy laws are federal, and some are state, so there are some variances from state to state. The money Curves says I owe them (future royalty and ad fund payments from a contract ended before term) is a significant part of my bankruptcy case.
I know a woman who was sued by Curves Int’l, after she did every thing they asked of her. However, since I closed in March they haven’t done much more than send me two legal letters demanding payment. I think they are bogged down with closures and either no longer investing the effort into legal actions, or just so slow they haven’t gotten back to me yet. However, even though we hadn’t hired an attorney or made a firm decision till October, I was telling them right away (in March) that I was going to have to file bankruptcy so maybe that’s why they haven’t done more yet.
Good luck.
I can only ditto the above problems with curves. We alos thought this was a wonderful way to supplement our retirement when we moved to Florida. Buy a Curves, friends had and were doing well. Mr and Mrs Heaven are not who they appear to be, cazring Christains. Most of the clubs that have closed, the owneres have lost all, and have had to file bancrupacy. Once at a convention Gary said we care about women, well most owners were women. What about us. We to lost all our retirement, our house is being foreclosed on and we are filing bankruacpy. Same issues, clubs opening everywhere around us, on top of us. No attention paid to territory borders, advertsing fee monthly with no accountability and no tv advertising. No support from mama and papa curves just give me give me more money. We are looking to join a class action or group action suit. I also know several other past owners who are looking for the same. We also owned three clubs closed two and are closing our last one. How sad for all of us that were sold a dream that became a nightmare.
So Sad! Dreams that become nightmares! If Curves had been forced under law and regulation to disclose the profitability/success/failure of “founding” franchisees within their system, would this have warned you, Anne Tibbetts? Generally, there is nothing very specific in the franchise agreement about the support the franchisor will provide you. The advertising funds appear to be the property of the franchisor to use as he sees fit.
Unfortunately, because of regulation, franchises can be sold without disclosure by the franchisor of past financial performance statistics of units within systems and, therefore, good faith franchisees buy franchises with no idea of the great risk involved and put too much at risk. Under current law and the law of the average franchise agreement, franchisors can encroach on their own franchisees with immunity under the law.
The great risk of buying “any” franchise is hidden from view of prospective
franchisees because if the risk and profitability were actually understood up front, most prospects would not be willing to put so much at risk to earn so little and to lose so much.
The deck is stacked in the courts against franchisees because of the pre-meditated airtight and invincible un-bargained contracts that are signed in good faith by naive buyers of franchises.
I am sorry for your great loss and pain. Think about how you can help to prevent this from happening to others.
http//thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com
Hi Anne Tibbetts,
If you are interested in going after Howie and Curves International send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com here at this site and ask him to forward your email with your return email address or your phone to me and I will get a hold of you asap.
Here’s a sad story of a Curves owner who says she could have pocketed a $700,000 profit had she sold her clubs when times were good, Instead, she wound up broke and bankrupt.
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/has-the-economy-closed-your-exit-door/
It truly is a sad story but its a shame that owner never had the chance to explain the reasons why she had to close. I would bet 9 to 1 that she would have similar complaints as all the other owners who have posted on this site explaining their horror story. .Why can’t Howie figure it out and make the necessary changes that are obvious to make this franchise successful and respectable again? Does anyone actually believe that this franchise will sooner than latter cease to exist? You should because of the rate of clubs closings since December has increased tremendously. What do you suppose Howie will do than? It should be obvious from the wording in the new contract. The ratio of people not willing to resign their franchise agreement on the five year contract is shocking to say the least. Many of those owners are trying to sell but as all owners know by now it is almost impossible to do even for a dollar, Does anyone really think that Howie will be able to resell those territories (churning in franchise lingo) to buyers after he has done his best to destroy this company by his illegal and unethical business tactics. To think that at one time there were over 10,000 clubs and that around 4,000 to 5,000 are all that’s left is mind boggling. Unfortunately the whole Curves story is very sad and I must wonder if Howie will write a book about his demise! The owners day in court is coming very soon, The group action lawsuit will be starting on March 21, 2010 and many individual cases will start to be heard in court starting in the summer of 2010.
Here’s a slightly different take on this “sad” story. Your comments are invited:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-franchisee-regrets-not-sticking-it-to-others/
I have a hard time shedding a tear for Ms. Donofrio when her greatest regret is not having pawned her doomed stores off on someone else for a profit. Her second biggest mistake was perhaps revealing a bit too much of her true self to a national publication.
The story gives me a renewed respect for the franchisees who refused to resell their stores once they knew they weren’t going to work. Kudos to those of you who may have lost your savings but maintained your integrity. Your kids, friends and family noticed.
The story gives me a renewed respect for the franchisees who refused to resell their stores once they knew they weren’t going to work. Kudos to those of you who may have lost your savings but maintained your integrity. Your kids, friends and family noticed.
Thank you for this comment. I am one of those franchisees who refused to sell because if I couldn’t make it work as the original owner, no one could. I wasn’t willing to “give” the club away so that the next owner could build it up. If I couldn’t sell it for a decent price, good chance anyone interested in “picking” up the club would be undercapitalized and doomed to failure. If I was suffering from the cannabalism of other clubs on my borders, how would selling change that? It wouldn’t.
“renewed respect”
are you kidding me?
up until the last minute before i closed my clubs, i would have done anything to have sold them to anyone else. i practically tried to give them away.
i loved my club and i love my members and i was so distraught over having to close and stop serving them.
also, if i could have sold instead of closed i could have escaped the mental baggage that i failed!
finally, and perhaps most important, if i could have sold my clubs, maybe my family wouldn’t be destitute now.
Sure, go ahead and give me credit. i’ll tell you, when i came close to selling i recognized that I was selling someone a risk I didn’t want to live with anymore. but i was hopeful, and i am optimistic, so I can deal with that risk better than some (perhaps).
To “cope” with potential buyers of my failing business, i had to keep defining my business problem like this:
————————————————————————————–
* that it was me personally who could no longer get enough credit to keep the business going in a tough economy.
* that it was me personally who couldn’t buck the shadow of curves international and do something so innovative that my individual franchise could survive and flourish.
* that it was me personally who was making business mistakes.
that was my problem.
Obviously this was not the best business sense, but it was my reality. if i could have gotten enough credit to keep it going (till the economy turns around) i would have been happy to keep trying. i loved my business.
“up until the last minute before i closed my clubs, i would have done anything to have sold them to anyone else. ”
“Sure, go ahead and give me credit.”
Who’s giving you credit for anything? Like the Donofrio chick you wouldve gladly pawned off your mistake so some other family could lose their life savings, their house and enjoy the pleasure of having their car repoed in the middle of the night.
Your list of justifications will probably come in useful to the broker or CI salesperson who resells your territory to the next mark. Don’t expect credit just because you weren’t as good a salesperson as the pro churners.
I don’t think you “get it”. I certainly wasn’t trying to “pawn(ed) off your mistake”. I was hook line and sinker loving my business, even though the money had soured.
I’d been open long enough (~8yrs) that most of my business was women who really believed in their Curves workout. I had about 70 women a day who were working out 3 times a week and feeding me their love of their workout.
Because of this I did have hopes that we could survive and thrive again if we could just make it thru the current tough economy. I was advertising for someone who had the capital to whether the economic storm.
Donofrio is portrayed as someone who wishes she’d sold when the business was profitable. that doesn’t make her a bad person.
Also, for whatever reason (which is not defined) she kept her clubs, and wound up as broke and bankrupt as anyone of us might be.
ps I didn’t just lose my savings, i lost everything except my marriage. and that almost went too.
“Donofrio is portrayed as someone who wishes she’d sold when the business was profitable. that doesn’t make her a bad person.”
No, she’s a great human being. Donofrio says her biggest regret is not getting someone to put an additional $700,000 into a business she now knows was destined to fail. She’s a real peach.
How would you feel if the franchise salesperson who sold you your failed club was quoted as saying that their only regret was not charging you more for your franchise when they had the chance? Or not getting your jewelry… or gold teeth?
Dear Curved Logic.
I Disagree. I don’t think she knew it was ‘destined to fail’.
The point is that she now knows that the four Curves failed. And she wishes someone else had taken over the same businesses having invested $700,000 more than she did.
She doesn’t say she wishes she sold to someone who could’ve succeeded. She just wishes she had walked away with somebody’s $700K.
just because you’re delusional doesn’t make you ethical. These pages are filled with sad stories of people who lost it all because some people like Donofrio (and you) were actually successful in dumping their bad investments before the s*** hit the fan.
The new franchise agreement has a breach of contract clause, that states you will pay $42,280 if you breach. Curves NEVER INTENDED to collect this money from you. What they are doing is settling, they will take $2,500 and THEN THEY WILL WRITE $40,000 OFF THEIR TAXES AS A LOSS. When this happens the franchisee that closed will receive a 1099 stating they have to claim this $40,000 on their income tax. It’s very smart business for CI and whoever thought of it has no ethics. CI is capitalizing on business closing, if you close your only option is bankruptcy unless you have more money than most, you can pick and choose the liabilities you want to declare.
Hind site is always easy to wish for but the reality is that she didn’t sell and if she had would it have been her fault if the new owners club went south. At the time she wishes she sold curves was still going strong so what is unethical if she had sold out than. I’m sure there are hundreds of owners that wish they had sold in 04 or early 05 but you must remember that in those times the business was still viable and considered a good franchise. In those days there were unethical owners who sold their clubs at highly inflated prices and falsified the actual membership figures to substantiate their selling price. But one must remember that it was Howie who allowed that to happen and knew it was being done but did nothing to stop it . Howie screwed his management team in late 02 and 03 and it took until late o7 early 08 before the curves franchises started to go south because of Howie’s mismanagement. For the one owner who stated above that she tried to hang in there until the economy improves gives the impression that the economy is the reason why so many clubs have closed and that my friends is plain and simply not true. The failure of curves rests on Howie and Diane’s shoulders period. While I would have to agree that owners who are now aware of the unethical business practices that have brought Curves down and continue to sell not telling the buyer of the problems associated with Howie are just as unethical scumbags as Howie is so kudo’s to the owners who have closed but they all need to wake up and make sure that Howie can’t perpetuate this fraud on potentially new owners by speaking up and getting the word out about Curves International and Howie.
SHOCKING and legal? If franchisees unknowingly sign contracts in which a a$42,280.00 FAILURE FEE is disguised in the small print, this works in two ways to subsidize the franchisor and the other special interests.
If the courts might(?) consider the failure of the franchisee mitigates the breach, and the franchisee is close to insolvency, the settlement of the debt owed under the contract is the smarter way for the franchisor to go when the failing or failed franchisee can”t unload the business to another franchisee, and the franchisor doesn’t want to acquire the assets of the business.
If the franchisor wants the assets for himself and can find a third party to buy the assets in a fire sale, the forgiveness of the $42,280.00 FAILURE FEE will work as an inducement for the franchisee to give the business away to the third party. new franchisee, or the franchisor, in order to get out from under the debt.
Law, process, procedure, and accounting rules have all been stacked in the favor of franchisors and those at the top of the pyramid of franchising who take their profits off of the cheap labor and venture capital of those on the bottom of the pyramid have influenced the law, process, procedure, and accounting rules that encourage “stealing by deceit” in our economy.
http://thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com
A story about a gym closing reveals that 258 of Florida’s 1,800-plus registered health clubs closed in 2008 alone. No mention of the 2009 figures, but they must be even worse.
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20100109/BUSINESS/1090323/1006/NEWS01/Gym+closing+frustrates+some+former+members
re: forgiveness of “failure fee” and the 1099 tax form report by Curves.
Just today I was reading a legal argument about how the IRS processes the 1099s issued by mortgage companies after a foreclosure. Some former home owners have been surprised to get big tax bills based on these 1099s. They were erroneous issues but needed clarification by the taxpayers. It seems we may find this to be true with cancelled franchise contracts, if Curves International is indeed, issuing 1099 forms to explain the changes to the IRS.
However, the legal perspective is that the mortgage companies are not required to use the 1099 forms to list a “forgiveness of debt” but they choose to as it is an easy way to report the changes to the IRS. (Apparently this is the same thinking at Curves Internaitonal for their so-called losses) They don’t worry about how the IRS interprets the forms, they just want to satisfy their legal obligation to issue a report in the change of the contract.
And (it seems) the overworked and underpaid peon in the IRS service centers doesn’t stop to think about the context of the 1099s: they just assume the 1099 refers to income received by the taxpayer. Then they issue a notice that there’s a discrepancy in the amount of income reported by the taxpayer and the numbers on the 1099. This notice comes in the form of a (intimidating) letter that holds the processing of the taxpayers return hostage and demands an explanation within 30days.
The consensus of opinion by tax professionals, lawyers and professors (of the responses I read so far) is that a simple explanation in writing that there was no actual financial gain to the taxpayer is enough to dismiss these 1099s (and so to many writers also note that this is also true for any 1099s used to show forgiveness of debts)
For each franchise I’ve closed, Curves International has issued me a legal demand for payment of unfulfilled royalties and advertisement fees. I plan to include copies of these with my 1040 with the explanatory paragraph describing how there is no income.
One commentator noted that
“Congress does not require taxpayers who are insolvent at the time of the debt forgiveness to report debt forgiveness as income. That’s in section 108. Insolvency just means that even after the debt forgiveness, the taxpayer still has more debts than assets to pay them”.
When I closed my franchises it absolutely was because we had more debts than assets (available for payment), don’t you agree?
Also there is an agency called Taxpayer Advocate Service which should be able to help if any of us get caught in such a situation. The only problem is, they too are underfunded and overworked.
Good Luck and don’t forget to check with your state laws too. Just because you signed it, doesn’t mean everything CI put into it will hold up in your state.
Thanks to WipedOut for the link to the original story.
14% of Florida Health Clubs Closed in 2008
Another Curves closes. But check the comments to the article. Apparently, one Curves is now open 24/7.
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_14181581
Gary Findley, once President of Curves and, I believe, an early franchisee has been promoted to Snap Fitness COO. Snap Fitness claims to have 2000 sold and to be opening 30-40 clubs per month.
http://www.franchising.com/pressreleases/14155/
“Apparently, one Curves is now open 24/7.”
Has anyone else heard of a 24 Hours Curves (with Keycard access) as the commenter reports in CA? Think this is CI approved or a renegade franchisee?
The comments on the Santa Cruz article were also interesting as the Curves/Heavin “anti-choice” controversy obviously still resonates in CA.
Oh, yes there is even a 24/7 Curves Owners Group. CI is not happy about the 24/7, but owners say they are doing everything possible just to keep their Curves open and pay the bills. Some are just calling it “extended hours” and not staffing their club all hours it is open. So I guess it is not CI approved.
What other things are Curves owners resorting to to try to remain open (that are not part of the approved concept)?
Have some Curves gone coed or have coed hours? Or are selling product lines they’ve added themselves?
There are many curves clubs that are 24/7 even though /Curves International has stated it is not approved. The group that has gone 24/7 has seen an increase in membership and it has definitely been a good and positive business decision for most clubs that have gone that route. Curves International has stated that they would not allow an owner to sell or transfer ownership of a club to a new owner if it was a 24/7 club.
Curves International has several clubs that are co-ed and are testing the waters so to speak on that concept and there are clubs that are allowing men to work out at different hours than women. While it has always been the unwritten policy of Curves International that the clubs were only for women they have been sued for discrimination and lost several court cases on this. They tell all owners that if a man comes in to join you must by law let him join and allow your women members to force him to quit. They even changed their name from Curves for Women to just Curves because of the discrimination cases they lost in the courts a few years back.
There has been an interesting development in the 24/7 clubs as of today but I am not in the liberty to explain what has happened as of yet but will keep you informed of what is happening on this in the next few weeks. I can tell you that Curves International is once again using underhanded and unethical tactics to try to prevent any more 24/7 clubs and to close the ones that are open.
I had also heard through the grapevine that Curves was looking at the possibility of adding coed hours after hours; it looks like a few selected clubs have either been given permission or are doing it on their own. In fact, I have known of several Curves owners over the years who have experimented with non-approved products/programs to try to add extra profit. It’s too bad when a franchisee feels they must violate their franchise agreement in order to be successful.
The problem of members hitting a plateau are only going to be realized faster if/when men start using the Curves nonadjustable equipment. Men want to feel more resistance; that is the nature of the beast.
Rather than increase profits by attracting a whole new segment of the population, allowing men on this equipment is only going to speed up the inevitable.
As a non-franchise competitor of Curves, my business has taken a very nice jump in sales as Curves clubs continue to close across the country and others want to open a club without the high franchise overhead to service the members left hanging. If anyone is interested in information on my program, email the ADMIN and he will see that it gets to me.
I think my area is spread out enough I have 20,000 people in my town, and get in 11-25 new members a month. (We are not growing) Every January I start with the same membership level. Why? Just as my kinesiology instructor said about circuit training is that “Think of your favorite dessert, then image eating it every day. How fast would that sweet become your least favorite?” We are not doing enough to keep our members in our clubs. CI talks about getting new members…I get them how do I keep them. What is there answer? More activities! I do tons of stuff every day, but it is not that! Our company fails because we fail to deliver results. We need to offer more to our members. We need them to lose weight. I could not believe in the fall 08 Diane mag it had a member who was upset about coming to Curves and not losing weight. What was Gary’s response to this member who had been coming for over a year? Your are internally getting healthier.
I spoke to a new owner today in a near by town and last year she said the club lost 250+ members. I know she paid a good amount for this club, and that she thinks she can turn the attrition around. Good luck with that. (Just so everyone knows we are in an area that has not been hard hit by the economy. TEXAS) We have had some hard times but I think the unemployment rate is only slightly over the norm. My club is unsuccessful not because I don’t work at it, but the basic concept is unsuccessful. It works for awhile and then women get tired of it.
My kinesiology teacher said that my club’s biggest problem is group activity. Without the classes the members are solely on their own. They may have a friend or an encouraging staff, but they do not have the competition that comes from trying to out do the girl next to them. (We do have competitions at our club) What he meant was we need the excitement of working toward a short term goal that group workout offers. The basic concept is good, but we have too many holes that need to be plugged. We need to offer more to our clients not just another shirt. Really who wants to give them another 2x shirt. I want to give that client a M size, but I just don’t think I have been given all the tools I need to get these over weight women to see the results that makes them motivated to stay.
I currently put a 3-4 hundred dollars of personal money into the business each month, but since my loan note is for a $1,000 I keep it open. I will not sell it to someone else, because they would just have to close it down. I love the women at my gym and want them to lose weight. I hope to keep the club open, but it is so much work with no pay. I have never given my self a pay check from my club, and I have owned the club since 06. Gary how is your private jet? My house needs repairs that we can’t afford! My Christmas present to my 3 little children was a repair bill for our family car. (We did manage to give them each two presents but it was not a happy Christmas) I am sure your little girl got everything she wanted.
By the way our Christmas for the three children cost us just under $175. I would have put some toys on a credit card, but they are maxed out from keeping curves alive!
For crying out loud it’s not the workout that is causing the the curves clubs club to close at an ever increasing rate as fitdude an admitted competitor of curves tries to ‘explain. It’s Howie. Plain and simple, black and white, it’s the management or lack of that is the problem. Every time an owner comes up with a plan to increase membership and it works Howie tries to squelch it. If it is not his idea for get it. There is nothing in any of the contracts either 5 or 10 year that prevents the clubs from becoming 24/7. But because he didn’t come up with the idea and can’t make money off it he is doing his best to discourage owners from doing it. He even lied by stating that the liability insurance would not allow it and if they did it would be too costly to do. The liability insurance company Sports and Fitness has told owners that it is acceptable and that their cost for insurance will not increase. More lies from this so called Christian. No company can continue to operate when the head of that organization is nothing but a lying , dishonest and unethical business executive.. Period.
Next Step
Such a sad story and truly heart wrenching as most of us have or have had kids and we all know how you must feel. Our prayers go out for you and your three kids. While it may not be Christian of me there are times that I feel like walking up to Howie and slapping the piss out of him for the pain he has caused so many decent owners. I obviously wouldn’t do that but I sure wouldn’t hold it against anyone that did because this man needs to someday understand the pain he has caused on so many people. God Bless you and your children Next step and we will pray that they have a better Easter.
unhappy,
I agree with you about the fact that Howie could give us some more leniencies in operating our clubs, so that we could keep are members happy. I don’t at this point know what will keep them working out that CI will approve but I know it is not the circuit alone. I think we were set to failure, because our founder’s business plan did not take into account that after a few months woman would get tired of the workout and quit coming. Yes, some women commit and then Curves changes their lives. However, and I don’t know how many of you agree, a large portion of women do not keep coming no matter how much I call, and they cancel their membership. I have always heard that getting a new client is harder then keeping one. Well in my case I can get them, but I really can’t keep them. Even in this down economy if our women were really seeing the results they would not quit.
Here are the reasons I think I can’t keep them
1. They get tired of the workout (I have been told this by many canceling members)
2. They leave to go to coed gyms that offer more and for the most part are cheaper.
3. They leave because the results were not there. For this one I think it has to do with diet or 30 minutes of exercise is not enough because of how very overweight they are.
Everyone should keep one thing in mind that Howie was not an expert when he devised this plan, and that our system was new. Which is great and is the reason we had so many members. The facts are that the dot gov sites all say 30 is a maintenance mode and Curves even says we need our members to do more then just the circuit. Really? So I asked my AD if that is the case why not give them more here at our club. Why do I tell them to go for a walk? In the 100 degree heat? By the way if any one really wants to know about the study at Baylor, do I have some inside facts! The truth is the business plan is not cutting it, and since the way to fix it would not bring Howie money, I would bet we won’t be able to do that.
When I said as my name next step, I did so because I want to take my club to the next level and offer these things, but then I would violate my agreement. I know I don’t want to lose my franchise, because some other sucker would just buy it and reopen it, plus I have to keep my smart equipment going. The ladies really like it. What the heck am I suppose to do. I did not get into business to lose money every month. Then know how to stop the leaks but can’t since it is a franchise with so many limitations.
Next step,
I beg to differ with you on the reasons you think you can’t keep members. You state
“1. They get tired of the workout (I have been told this by many canceling members)”
I have been with curves for over 13 years and not once have I heard that reason for canceling. Are you changing the machines around every month? Do you have days where the members go in the opposite direction once a week? Do you have a trainer in the middle of the circuit at all times? Do you teach the platform dance steps? How often do you buy new music and how often to you change music?
How often to you rearrange the club, bring fresh flowers or floral arrangement’s to the club. What circuit games are you playing and do you have a trivia board?
“2. They leave to go to coed gyms that offer more and for the most part are cheaper.” This type of member was never yours and should not have joined. You can tell when they sign up that they will be moving on Curves clientele would not be caught in a coed gym period. .
“3. They leave because the results were not there.”
It is your and your trainers fault if the members results are not there. First off you were suckered into buying curves smart which does not work but even with that said you have been supplied with all the tools to make sure that member reaches her goal. You are to do a weigh and measure every month and if the member isn’t losing inches and pounds that it is up to you and your trainers to figure out what is going on and why. Granted it is usually because the member hasn’t changed her eating habits but not always. Your Curves manual has all the information you need to determine what problem is and how to correct it. If the member won’t follow your suggestions at this time you are eventually going to lose her as a member. That is a fact of life and that is why you need to constantly be bringing new members in.
The reason the clubs are closing at an alarming rate is directly related to the way curves international has been mismanaged. You and many other clubs were sold curves smart under the assumption that it was new technology and that curves international would follow up with a huge national advertising campaign to support your investment. Well first off it is not new technology. It is over 11 year old now and never worked that and doesn’t work now. Secondly have you seen the advertising campaign that you and all the other owners were promised. Of course not! Besides the advanced workout is a much better workout and works better for membership retention. This is only one of the mismanagement problems associated with curves international and I could go on and on but I’m sure you can point them out also.
unhappy,
I can see you sitting at your computer and cursing about my post. I think we all have a different take on this whole organization, but we can agree that CI is dropping the ball in more places then one.
With that said I do appreciate your helpful comments and we already do 90% of them but we will work harder on the other 10%.
I still hold firm to my belief that a lot of the problem is boredom. I am not sure what your back ground is, but mine is in the study of exercise psychology. (This happened after I purchased my first club). With that in mind I know that we are not cutting it and never will. As I mentioned early just as my kinesiology instructor said about circuit training is that “Think of your favorite dessert, then image eating it every day. How fast would that sweet become your least favorite?”
I can think of a member who was with me for over two years, then she quit September 2008. She came back in January 1st to quit again in February of 2009. What she told me is that she just could not bring herself to go around in circles anymore. It is not every member who quits for this reason but a lot do.
Well with a lot more work we will see how things go and I really am giving it my all 200%. Maybe just maybe I will one day be able to write myself a paycheck. NO I have not ever done that in 4 years.
I think how many of us work all weekend putting out flyers? Going to health fairs? I put out 1,000 of flyers a month. Good luck everyone to those who have closed, to the ones left open, and the ones that will have a day in court. May peace come to us all!
I certainly second that and good luck in the future.
Dear Next Step,
I think “boredom” is one of those adjectives women use to label the real problem: many of us are overwhelmed with so many other “needs” pressing on us that we don’t put our physical needs for a workout at the top of the list of priorities.
This doesn’t just happen at Curves (not does it just happen to women), it happens at all exercise programs of all types. The exception is recreational exercise (ie hiking and rowing), and competitive exercise (ie tennis and marathons), and even they eventually succumb to that reality for many women.
For instance, from personal experience, I know that Curves is one of the most convenient programs to effectively manage back pain, but even I find it becomes difficult for me to prioritize that time to go to a Curves (since I’m not working there).
So, I finally surmised that “pain” and “time” and “boredom” are often just an easy way to avoid saying, “I don’t have the energy to prioritize my need for basic strength training”. Not every woman has this issue, but it does seem to be a big part of the women’s cultural subgroup in this country.
Best Wishes
Hey, I finally saw a Curves commercial in 2010. I caught it as I was channel surfing, the program …….
700 Club
God help, I would say us, but I am no longer an owner, so God help and Bless those of you still around.
[...] owners than independent operators. Many comments by Curves owners here (see the comments on Robert Lay’s Story) cite the fact that they are pressured to pay closing or “failure” fees if they cannot remain [...]
CURVES: Can Indie Clubs Thrive Where Curves Failed?
The group action lawsuit count down is on. It should be going to trial in mid March of this year. Most owners who are involved in the lawsuit are counting the days before they will finally have their day in court. Will Howie finally be held accountable for his unethical, immoral and greedy ways? , Will Curves continue to even exist or is this the end to what could have been the greatest health franchise in the world? Since the first of the year record numbers of Curves franchises have closed their doors and hundreds of 5 year franchisee contracts are about to come up for renewal. Will they renew or close? Are you a curves owner? If so tell us what are your intentions are you going to renew or are you going to close?
Unhappy! Don’t hold your breath! Best of Luck — The MBE-UPS BSA Lawsuit belweather plaintiffs were dismissed in a summary judgement in favor of MBE-UPS over a year ago and the other 200 plaintiffs in the mass action are still waiting for a decision from the judge in the Federal Court as to their status. The other plaintiffs inthe other lawsuit against MBE/UPS have yet to get before a jury and are looking to a class action lawsuit.
Obviously, the delay works against franchisees who run out of money or die! Stacked deck! Most of these big coporations win even when the government sues them! What does that tell you?
unhappy,
What court will the trial be held at? As for the amount of clubs that closed I can’t get an accurate count. I asked Curves yesterday when I had to call for something, but the secretary said she did not know. If you locate a Curves on their site almost all of them are closed. I had to locate a curves in NY last week for a member and out of 16 only three were still open. Well, where I am from none of them are closed. We all seem to be doing ok, but about an hour away a few have closed. We also did not have a saturation problem. As for if we will renew, it is hard to say because a 10,000 closing fee would be a lot to pay.
Dear Next Step
If you are at time for a renewal there is no question of any kind of closing fee. A “closing fee” is what is the general reference to Curves demand for payment in consideration of royalties and advertising fees not paid if you close before your contract is up for renewal.
My lawyer said that it doesn’t sail past our state laws but I know many franchisees in my state who paid this because Curves International bullied them into it.
Good Luck
to: another curver. There was mention previously about “my lawyer said that it doesn’t sail past our state laws”………….What state are you in —- just curious and hoping it is Maryland.
TO ALL CURVES OWNERS
There is an interesting article in the Waco newspaper about the Heavin’s and Curves and can be found by going to http://www.wacotrib.com/news/82861642.html. Is there any Curves owner out there that believes his true intentions for doing this were anything but self promotion and greed. He will have his franchise owners sell the shirts and then he will donate the revenues to get a tax write-off. He will use the expense for the jet trip as a tax deduction also and I believe that his true motivating reasons for doing this is not because it is a Christian thing to do a self promotional act. A man is judged by his actions present an past and if we look at his life history it shows he doesn’t have a Christian bone in his whole body. His whole life has been self promotion and greed. Many Curves owners now believe that he displays many characteristics of a psychopathic personality. What do you think? Is Howie a psychopath who is self absorbed bent on destruction and who continuously lies and blames owners for their business failing rather than to look in a mirror and to see the true cause of the downfall of curves staring back at him?
To Next step
Here is the court and doc # of the group action lawsuit.
FEDERAL COURT
U.S. CLERK OFFICE
800 FRANKLIN ROOM 800
WACO TX. 76701
254-750-1501
CASE OR DOC # 07′ CV’ 048
Carol,
Obviously I won’t hold by breath but before you talk about the Curves Lawsuits you really should become more informed about the court actions that have already taken place. Curves already tried to get a summary judgment and failed so it will be going to trail by jury. I am sorry to hear about your families experience with up franchise lawsuit and fully understand your distaste for franchisers. But don’t you dare rain on our parade as all curves owners need to remain hopeful and positive. Instead of bringing negativity to this site please try to stay positive and supportive of what we as owners are trying to accomplish here. Contrary to your opinion there have been many lawsuits that have been won against franchise’s even though you weren’t successful. You could be right Carol but please keep your opinions to your self at least until the cases are either heard or thrown out of court. Than if you are right you can gloat and tell me you told us so. But for now I don’t need to hear it. OK
Next Step,
That is great it’s not legal in your state but more importantly it is not legal in the state of Texas either and that is where the cases will be heard because of our franchise agreement. That a win /win for all of us.
“Instead of bringing negativity to this site” “keep your opinions to your self”
LOL, thank you, that is the funniest thing I’ve read in ages!
You tell her man! haha THIS site is NOTHING but negativity. And you are going to call other people hypocrites? Priceless. Just priceless.
OK, Unhappy! You know I would be delighted if you won a big lawsuit or are compensated in a settlement tlement from Curves for the damages you have suffered, and I will be watching your progress.
I still wonder why I can’t find any Case Law where any lawsuits have been won against franchisors! All the actual case law I can find has been in favor of the franchisor, except for a few “unlawful terminations.” I sincerely hope I am not right and that the three branches of government hav e not stacked the deck against franchisees under the guise of serving the public good.
Could you cite me some cases when you have time? —or were all these “Wins” a settlement of the issues that are not a matter of public record? What do you think of the Quiznos proposed settlement, or don’t you follow this?
Carol
You may have answered your question yourself. I’m sure many cases have been settled before they ever get to court as most lawsuits are settled in that manor because of the huge awards that are handed out by juries when the litigants win. One that does come to mind is the case in Ca. against krispy kreem. I know it went to court and the franchisee won a huge settlement as I spoke to the lawyer that handled that particular case when I was shopping for an attorney. I haven’t had the time to follow the Quiznos settlement . Please give us a review I’m sure many would be interested in reading it.
In the next week I will try to do some research in my limited free time about cases dealing with franchise’s and will get back to you.
To guest,
Well Well Well glad we could make your day and give you a laugh! But I would hardly agree with you as most posters are not negative here. Their posts may seem negative to you but most of the people here are positive telling their personal stories about a company where the management has continuously lied, cheated and bullied them into paying money they didn’t have by using intimidation tactics that are unethical, immoral and quite possibly illegal. Granted the posts are very negative towards Curves International and its fearless leader Howie but the actual writers of those posts are some of the most positive people you will ever meet.
To “unhappy”,
“Well Well Well glad we could make your day and give you a laugh! ”
And I’m thrilled I could make you “glad” and hopefully “happy” for a change.
Dear Guest,
Actually I’m almost always happy with a smile on my face but I chose the unhappy moniker as I am so disillusioned by what Curves has become under Howies leadership. Born again Christian my ass he never has been a Christian and will surly go to you know where for all the pain and suffering he has caused here on earth. To him it is all about greed, greed ,greed and more greed.
unhappy.
you lost me when you said,
“That is great it’s not legal in your state but more importantly it is not legal in the state of Texas either and that is where the cases will be heard because of our franchise agreement. That a win /win for all of us.”
sorry what is not legal?
Trying to charge the closing fee or for that matter the franchise fee and add fee after you have closed
Exactly. Remember, just because something is written into a contract (especially if it’s in fine print), does not mean it is legal. Despite the impression that franchisors have better legal standing than franchisees (and i’m not doubting it), contract law holds that agreements have to be reasonable. That is overwhelmingly true in all courts across our land. The problem is that we don’t always agree on what is “reasonable”.
I used to write contracts as part of being an administrator for several small businesses and I had to research contract law in several states. I also sat in several court cases over a ten year period, and the judges opinion (of what is reasonable and law abiding) always overrides whatever is written in a contract.
However, in WA state, where I live, my lawyer said that regardless of what’s written in the contract, there is no legal right for the franchisor to collect fees from me when I’ve closed the business. Now that might have been in the context of my filing bankruptcy, I’m not positive of that, but I actually interviewed several bankruptcy lawyers and they all positively scowled over the idea of it. So, I urge all franchisees to seek legal counsel before capitulating to Curves International’s demands for payment.
Another Curver: Good advice! If you are closing because you are failing or are in danger of failing because you are not breaking even after exhausting the estimated startup costs and startup time element and can prove this, it is unlikely that a Judge would uphold the contract terms that treat your closing as an “abandonment” of the business and as abandonment of your contractual obligations and promises.
If you can’t afford legal counsel which is not cheap — you can always close down and do your best to follow the golden rule and wait to see if Curves will take you to court to try and get a judgment, before you hire an attorney. I haven’t seen any reports from Curves or ex-Curves franchisees who have indicated that Curves is taking failing franchisees to court to try to get judgments. I would imagine that the contract permits the franchisor to make any kind of deal he wants to with any individual franchisee (as has been indicated by the postings) and this would probably not be illegal because of the contract terms.
Since they have been settling for different dollar amounts, I don’t think they would want to deal with this in the courts.
Remember that the “failure fee” is in the contract to begin with to give the franchisee the incentive to try to sell the business or to keep the franchisee trying to breakeven because as long as the franchisee keeps trying or in the event the franchisee can “unload” your business to someone else, the franchisor is getting his profits right off of the top.
I, apparently, am getting confused with another “Carol” on here. My daughter is an owner of a Curves which closed their doors on Dec. 31, 09. She has ful-filled everything on the list required by Curves, except for the financial obligation. There are no monies to fulfill that requirement. It’s a “NO BRAINER.”
I, apparently, am getting confused with another “Carol” on here. My daughter is an owner of a Curves which closed their doors on Dec. 31, 09. She has fulfilled everything on the list required by Curves, except for the financial obligation. There are no monies to fulfill that requirement. It’s a “NO BRAINER.” If there’s no money to keep the doors open, how in the world is there any money to pay them??????
My question still remains……”there is mention of “not legal in my state.” What state are they talking about??????? Does anyone know.
My daughter has received an email from Curves Int. – they are now sending her to “legal” because she has not ful-filled her legal obligation.
to Carol 2nd
send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com at this site and request he forward it to me and include your phone number and I will answer your question. don’t sign anything Curves send you until you talk to me. unhappy
to Carol Cross,
You are not right in your assumption that Curves is not suing owners for the franchise and advertising fees. They have and continue to file suits against owners.
when giving advice try to stick to what you know and not what you think is happening as your advice to Carol 2nd is wrong for the most part. I just got done talking to a women from Iowa who just received her summons from Waco and she closed in May of last year. Curves is that far behind in sending out notice to owners because of all the closings have overwhelmed them. Well over 100 per month and climbing.
Who is Sean and can you list his email address. Thanks
If you would like your contact info forwarded to unhappy, email it to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com.
Unhappy! I have only tried to indicate what I believe to be true. I was not aware that Curves was taking ex-franchisees to Court and that the Courts have been enforcing the terms of the “failure fee” against those who were failing to thrive and who had exhausted the estimatated startup costs and who had sincerely tried to make their businesses work but closed down to stop the bleeding to avoid becoming insolvent.
I wasn’t talking about “advertising fees” or the back franchise royalties — unless by this you mean the terms of “abandonment of the franchise” before the expiration of the term of the contract, i.e. the failure fee.
As I indicated before, it is my belief and opinion that franchisees just can’t close up because they are not making actual profits and want to do something else because the contract terms prevent this kind of abandonment and treat such abandonment as a violation of the contract terms. It is my belief and opinion that if the franchisee is making enough to cover overhead and debt service and a small salary, the “failure fee” in the contract would be upheld by the Courts. Franchisors never promise “profits” within the written contracts as I’m sure you know.
I have read case law where the “failure fee” -the liquidated damages– are not upheld by the courts in some states when these damages are merely a “penalty” for failure of the franchisee to thrive. I have read other case law where the “royalty damages” or “liquidated damages” have been upheld by the courts as a reasonable term of the contract.
“I have only tried to indicate what I believe to be true.”
Don’t. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t talk.
“I have read case law where the “failure fee” -the liquidated damages…”
The “Failure Fee” is not liquidated damages. It is a $10,000 closing fee specific to Curves that CI demands in addition to the future royalties and ad contributions when a club closes before the contract term is expired.
Perhaps you should do a little more reading and less writing about what you don’t know about. http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-negotiating-the-10000-closing-fee/
Guest -
“The “Failure Fee” is not liquidated damages. It is a $10,000 closing fee specific to Curves that CI demands in addition to the future royalties and ad contributions when a club closes before the contract term is expired.”
“If you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t talk.”
You should take your own advice and not talk about things you are obviously not fully versed on. With everyone I know that has been asked to pay it, the $10,000 closing fee is in lieu of, NOT in addition to, future royalties and ad funds.
As far as her voicing her opinion, an opinion that you’ll note she qualifies, that’s ALL that goes on here. Her opinion, his opinion, their opinion, your opinion. And well, you know what they say about opinions…
BTW, did you even read what is at the link you referred her to? From your ignorant comments, it’s pretty clear you didn’t. Classic.
Carol Cross writes: “Remember that the “failure fee” is in the contract to begin with to give the franchisee the incentive to try to sell the business…”
Really Carol? Where exactly did CI put the $10K “failure fee” in the Curves franchise agreement? Can you tell me which section you’re referring to? You have read it, correct?
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe the “failure fee” is in the “contract” that the current franchisees signed. It’s almost funny that while the contract clause doesn’t exist, Carol Cross can confidently explain the franchisor’s motivation and insidious motives for it.
What’s not funny is she’s giving uninformed legal advice yet she’s not a lawyer, not a franchisee and she’s not in the least informed. I may have gotten some details wrong, but I’m not telling people not to hire a lawyer, go ahead and close and don’t worry, you won’t get sued. She is, and it’s irresponsible.
The format and wording of the contracts changed ridiculously often. A failure fee may be defined in some of the contracts and not in others. My two contracts with CI were 15 months apart and worlds different in many significant ways.
**** Anybody can file a lawsuit regardless of it’s legal validity.
A legal finding brought in a court in one jurisdiction does not necessarily hold water in another jurisdiction. (State Jurisdictions are notorious for not honoring findings in other states.)
Thus in my state (Wa) where CI’s claims would not be honored according to more than one lawyer I talked to (but perhaps only in the context of my Bankruptcy conditions?) I feel economically protected, but I would not if I decided to take up residence in the same county as Waco.
Summary: Talk To A Lawyer in your jurisdiction!
Carol cross is just trying to be helpful but she is not a curves owner and doesn’t have any idea what is going on with curves and the problems between CI and the owners. She should not offer advice about this period. If any of the curves owners need help contact unhappy as he is the most knowledgeable owner on these subjects by far. There is a lot that Carol Cross is not aware of but she tries to come across as she does when the best policy would be to keep her mouth shut and type on her own board. Oh well thats my two cents worth but I doubt carol will get the message. AGAIN IF YOU ARE A CURVES OWNER AND NEED ADVICE GET A HOLD OF UNHAPPY. I’M GLAD I DID AND YOU WILL BE TOO.
Has anyone out there received their letter of abondoment from Curves and thus received a summons? If so how long after the letter did you receive it and what is happening?
Tickedoff,
All owners who close early or for that matter piss off Howie receive a letter of abandonment . Now days when you close it can take anywhere from 3 months up to 6 months before you will receive the abandonment letter. Normally it takes 3 to 12 weeks but as a result of all the closings since December that time frame has once again been extended. Many owners have received a summons and are in the process of going to court against Curves and that process usually takes about the same amount of time that it took to get your abandonment letter. One of the clubs that closed back east in early October just got the summons the first part of this week . At the national convention Howie stated that they were not going to ask for the closing fee any more and just go after owners in the courts but once again Howie lied as owners who have given notice of intent to close in January all have received the new closing packet with the 10,000 dollars fee included. If he is smart he may wait to see who wins the court action on the summons he has sent out before he continues sending more. We don’t know that yet but it would be the most logical course of action considering it looks like he is going to lose those cases. There is a statute of limitations on how long he can wait to file against owners but that starts at the ending date of your individual franchise agreement. I’m not sure how long the statute of limitations is but the next time I talk to the lawyers handling the cases I will certainly ask and post on the site so all owners will know. Unhappy
Owners are now taking bet’s on if Mr. Gary Heavin will be running Curves in 12-14 months or sooner. They also think this has relevance to the lack of communication
regarding the typical March regional meeting and especially Convention. Are the rumors true that Curves International is for sale? I have heard from credible sources that it is in the works. Does anyone else have information concerning this
development? In all honesty this is probably the only thing that could keep Curves Clubs open. Present owners should demand him to sell asap for the betterment of the Curves Mark or brand.
Past and present owners we are working on getting a national news paper to do a story on Curves. The author would like to speak with owners for the story. If you are willing to go on the record please send an email to this address unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com. and he will forward it to me. If you don’t want to go on the record but wouldn’t mind sending an email to the author asking him to write the story that would be helpful also so drop an email to Admin and he will make sure I get and I will send you the info you need to contact the author.
unhappy but getting happier as the days go on and we get closer to the start of the group action lawsuit. March 21 is the day so mark it in your date book.
Unhappy, you might want to change your date book. I looked up your case, and it looks like the attorneys have agreed to push the Trial back to the last week of August.
Some information regarding a previous post…. John McCord used to be the VP of Franchise Sales for Curves. Gary set him up as a re-sales business broker so he could, I believe, make more money off the re-sale process. Making $5,000 per re-sale wasn’t enough for Gary. When I was selling my Curves, McCord would not “take-on” my club because I wasn’t profitable enough. I learned later McCord took a percentage of the sale price, so the more profitable the club, the more he could sell it for, the more money he made. They were never really there to help the owners sell the club, just there to make another buck!
Also… how did Gary get the name “Howie?”
One more question… any word on how the international market is going. When I sold my Curves they were going big in Australia and had just opened the 10,000th Curves in Paris. Are the internatioinal Curves sustaining?
“I learned later McCord took a percentage of the sale price, so the more profitable the club, the more he could sell it for, the more money he made. They were never really there to help the owners sell the club, just there to make another buck!”
Isn’t that the job of a broker? To make money? You begrudge them that? As a business owner you are a capitalist. If you aren’t you need to stop working for yourself and start feeding off the government teat. And “The more profitable the business, the more they could sell it for.” Really? Wow, what insight. Ever sell or buy a house? You do know that the realtor (broker) there makes a profit off the sale right? And since it too is percentage based, the more valuable the house, the bigger the commission. These are pretty basic business concepts. I seriously hope that none of the stellar business minds that post all over this blog are on your witless (not a typo) list. No wonder franchisors win these cases left and right.
The international clubs are having just as ruff of time as the US clubs and are closing just as fast. There are no longer 10000 clubs world wide as there are less than 4300 clubs left. We have nick named him Howie as he had a gone to court to change his name after he was arrested in the early 90′s for defrauding members of a health chain in Dallas with his brother. He hates the name Howard because of his past.
To guest fortunately not everyone on this blog is as cynical as you and you should do more research about McCords before you speak as it only shows how stupid you really are you dimwit.
“To guest fortunately not everyone on this blog is as cynical as you”
No, no, you’re right, nothing but sunshine and light, hope and optimism here. LOL
“and you should do more research about McCords before you speak as it only shows how stupid you really are you dimwit.”
I don’t see how my being stupid changes the fact that brokers and realtors etc… all make a commission based on the value of the sale. But hey, you’re the “expert” here. I see that someone posted recently that 258 Curves closed in Florida in 08 – so I guess you’re right, this Howie person is surely to blame for that massive closing. (and what are you? 8? “We call him Howie cause it makes him feel bad.” Wow. Are you going to get your cooties shot?)
Oh wait, that wasn’t 258 Curves closing in Fl, it was 258 (14%) of health clubs closing in Fl. To me, mind you as you pointed out I’m not so bright, but still it looks like they are saying that health clubs OTHER than Curves are closing? WOW, this Howie guy really is impressive if he is causing that much devastation to the entire health club market! Hmmmmm…kinda makes you think though that maybe just maybe something other than poor franchisor management is going on here. But like I said, you’re the “expert” and I’m SURE that you had nothing to do with the downfall of YOUR business(es). What do I know though, I’m a dimwit right? I guess we’ll find out in March (or is it August now?)
“that wasn’t 258 Curves closing in Fl, it was 258 (14%) of health clubs closing in Fl. … it looks like they are saying that health clubs OTHER than Curves are closing? WOW, this Howie guy really is impressive if he is causing that much devastation to the entire health club market!”
Guest, of course other health clubs other than Curves are closing. But Curves owners SHOULD be better off, right? After all, they spent the extra money to join the franchise chain that hypes its experience, success story, no experience necessary, we’re all in this together, more than 10,000 clubs worldwide, etc. etc. etc.?
Curves clubs are closing in droves. The point is, what is CI doing about it? What assistance are they giving struggling owners? Their owners are in crisis mode… are they? The only communication from CI reported here by franchise owners seems to be about closing fees and more payments to Curves.
It seems to me that the problem is that Gary or Howard or whatever you want to call him doesn’t seem to be agonizing over these club closures the way a concerned, conscientious “christian” franchisor should be. Even if the whole industry is struggling, franchisees joined Curves because they weren’t going to have to go it alone. It seems that not only are they alone, CI actually adds to the pressure rather than helping to relieve it.
visitor you are right not only is CI adding to the pressure of the owners Howie is the direct reason so many clubs have, are and continue to close. With him at the helm this ship is about to go down just like the Titanic.
“But Curves owners SHOULD be better off, right?”
No. During such a downturn in economic conditions no business is safe. Add to that the clearly naive business notions I’ve seen here and you are destined to fail. To assume that your franchisor should have seen this coming when the best economic minds did not is silly. It shouldn’t really be a surprise though, just like the rest of society, everyone wants to blame someone else for their failure or predicament.
“no experience necessary” [in the fitness industry]
Does that mean “no common sense necessary”? Or “no basic business sense”? I don’t think so.
“the way a concerned, conscientious “christian” franchisor should be.”
This is a BUSINESS, not a charity. If you are looking for Christian Charity, go to your local church. I don’t believe that the law requires anyone, even a Christian, to be charitable. I guess you can hope that part of the next failed bailout they will include some money for you, but if in business you have “depended on the kindness of strangers.” You should join Blanche in the nut house.
Guest:
You can drop the snide, condescending tone. You can also stop treating anyone who raises an opposing viewpoint as naive or unwilling to accept appropriate responsibility.
Of course it’s a business. Of course owning a business is a risk. Of course Heavin is not responsible for non-Curves failures. Of course no franchisor can foresee economic downturns or how a new concept will mature. Great, obvious points.
What is CI doing to address and adapt to these economic changes? How have they evolved the concept? What innovative campaigns have they come up with? New pricing strategies? New profit centers? Fresh ideas?
Take a look at a good franchise company, like McDonald’s. They are constantly adapting, testing new ideas, launching new ideas, new products, fresh ideas, repackaging old ideas. Most of their successful ideas came from collaborating with their franchisees, listening to their needs and ideas.
Curves is a one-trick pony and wants to pretend its 20 year old concept is still new and revolutionary. There’s a lot of work to be done, but CI seems content to sit back and let its dated system grow more and more obsolete and lose more and more clubs while pretending to still be at 10K and growing.
There were 18 Curves in my county in 2005. There are nine today. Go to last year’s phone book and check how many are left in your area.
I have been reading through the posts. Wish we had seen this prior to our buying JUST THIS LAST AUGUST!!! We have not made a dime and probably will not. My goal is to at least see ourselves throug this pending lease and then we will see what happens. I personally want out. I can’t believe we made such an uninformed decision! I did go through my agreement and on page 17 it states Noncompliance damages – The lesser amount between 42,840.00 or the remaining months on your franchise agreement multiplied by 1,190.00. HUH? Is it true that some states may disregard this due to their laws? I would like to find out more about this. What about Texas and Oklahoma?
Forgot to add about the noncompliance damages – this is to be paid on demand and is payable if your franchise agreement is terminated due to your default or breach.
In 07 there were 29 in my metro area now there is 9 and none are making money but just hanging on hoping for change.
I need to write letters to my Attorney General and the BBB about the unethical way our Curves has been treated by CI and I don’t know any format. Has anyone written any of these letters? I take heart in the fact that we have actually run a business Even though we have lost most of our money, we have learned lessons about management, promotion and hard work that we couldn’t have learned any other way!
I need to write letters to my Attorney General and the BBB about the unethical way our Curves has been treated by CI and I don’t know any format. Has anyone written any of these letters? I take heart in the fact that we have actually run a business Even though we have lost most of our money, we have learned lessons about management, promotion and hard work that we couldn’t have learned any other way!
to: Another Curves Owner – Talk To A Lawyer! Find out if those clauses in your contract are enforceable in your state. Find out HOW they could be enforced (or not) and decide what you want to do from there. You need the facts for your state, talk to a lawyer in your state.
to NJNow re letters to the Attorney General and the BBB.
First, write out all your concerns from your heart. Separate them and number them. Sure, some of them will be tied together, almost like opposite sides of the same coin. Don’t worry about that.
Second, for each one, figure out if there is a remedy that will make you happy. Write it down.
Third, think about how ‘reasonable’ that remedy is. If it’s reasonable, circle it.
Fourth, re-write your list. First, list “Grievances”. Then list “Reasonable Remedies”. Finally list your “Dream Remedies”.
Now your thoughts are “organized”. Call your Attorney General’s office. They may have a form to fill out instead of accepting letters. They may have a staff person who can help you. You won’t know until you call them. The more organized you sound, the more willing they will be to listen to you.
If you can’t get through to a live person at your AG’s office, call or email your state representative. You are a business person, you have a business problem and you need help resolving it. That’s all you have to say in your email to your state rep. You might get excellent help that way. If you don’t, try another one of YOUR elected officials.
If you don’t know how to find your elected officials contact info, it’s time to take the initiative to do so. Just go to google and type: who’s the elected representative for ___” (fill in your zip code). That is a starting place. There are other ways too. Look for your state’s government website. They’ll probably have a search engine for you.
You have several elected officials to help you. Your federal representatives, and your state representatives, as well as your federal senators and your state senators. They all have office staff who can help you or direct you to help. If they don’t, contact one of the other ones till you find someone who does.
Good Luck.
Sorry to hear about your nightmare with curves. . Remember to file complaints with the following.
http://www.bbb.org/
http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml
From everything I have been reading this will probably still be considered abandonment but I will ask anyway.
Besides not making any money, now the property I am leasing has gone up for sale and the present owner does not want to keep renting and there is no where else for us to go that we can afford. Probably could not any way because of the costs that ci would charge us. Has anyone else had this kind of problem and if so what happened?
Agatha, I do believe that no matter what the reason you close and you have not forfilled your contract with CI you will receive the letter of abandoment. I begged CI to help me keep my club opened. The only thing they would do is put me to a % base IF I would sign a new contract. Who in their right mind would do that when all signs showed things would not get better because of it. I owned my Curves for 7 years and did everything in my power to keep it going. Many women relied on me and I loved my club. For over 2 years I did not tkle a paycheck and if I could at least make my bills I would still be there today. CI wanted $10,000 and me to do everything they wanted. Within 6 days they came down to $2,500. I did everything they asked EXCEPT destroy MY equiptment. That was not good enough. They wanted the money plus my equipment or no mutual release would be signed. I stuck to my guns about my equipment so needless to say I DID NOT send them the money. I got my letter of abandoment recently and now they want all furure advertising and franchise fees. WHAT FUTURE? They took that by ABANDONDING ME!!! Good Luck!
To all that think that the people on here are whiners. Who had the weight management promotion last September really help? For me it took away a partnership with weight watchers, and did not bring me any new members. Actually I have never gotten a new member from MY advertisement of the weight loss classes either.
When I asked for help from CI they told me to cut my hours. My busy time is when we open, lunch, 3 pm when our teachers come, and 5:30-6 when the working women come and we close from 1-3 pm and close at 7pm, so this advice was of no help. The other recommendation was to talk with your landlord and get the rent reduced, we pay .50 a sq ft. down from a $1 last year. I had already made that arrangement, so I said that won’t help what else do you have. Their answer was more flyers and lead bags. I am sorry I work all day and have no time for more flyers, I already put out a 1,000 a month, and my lead bags have had no good returns. I do still try them. I asked again what else? Let me tell you their next response was NO REPLY. So don’t tell me they are there for us, don’t tell me that they are helping. I had already done their recommendations before they gave them to me. Everything they gave me was just common business 101! There is no brain child at CI to help franchisees, and for the millions they were making they could have put together a really great marketing team, knowing that Curves was a fad and that they would need to add to it to keep the flames going. NOPE they did not for see the economic turn down, but I know that they should have seen a drop in membership based on statistics for fad diets and workouts.
CI would say the new flame was the curves smart, CI it was just too late, and to expensive for the so many clubs that were losing members left and right. However, they realized this quickly, it should have only taken a few months to see that projection sheets from smart clubs were not increasing memberships. They should have brainstormed and come up with a new concept. We should have a new gimmick every year to keep our member interested. No that can’t happen because you told us to rent such small places!
I give my self some credit since I was 25 when I bought my club and did not know better. I had never dieted in my life. I did not know that there was a cycle of popularity for diets and exercise programs. I just researched current data on Curves, my mistake was that Curves was not old enough, and was hitting its best years. Along with no real data for women’s fitness altogether. You live you learn, However as a Christian myself, when it comes to a person who is buried financially and trying to avoid bankruptcy you don’t try too take them for any last penny the may have. Nope you don’t, because a Christian would know that they are also to blame for their “partners” for failing. That is why Jesus said “it is more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.” The reason for this is you can not serve two masters you can not serve money and God. Only one will rule your life and it is obviously to me which one Mr. Haven worships. One last thing I am still an open club, and should not have to shut down, however, in a year and a half I will not be renewing my club.
No matter where the cards fall, I know I am not the only passionate person on this site. I must say that I am sorry for all the grammatical errors in my previous post. I was too caught up in the topic and forgot to proof read.
Another sad story that many of us can relate to.
Chavez opened Curves in late 2003, celebrating six years this past December. “When we opened there were lines at every machine,” she said with tears in her eyes on Tuesday morning. “Today, we have about 70 members. Just not enough keep open.”
http://www.cibolabeacon.com/articles/2010/02/11/news/doc4b7495965f201897823883.txt
Well Curves International has finally stopped charging the 10,000 dollar closing fee to owners who close as the word is finally out that it is quite possibly illegal, immoral and unethical for them to do so. If any of you owners paid that fee which was usually discounted to somewhere between 2500 and 3000 dollars you need to consult with an attorney at once. You have the right to demand the extortion money for closing back from Curves. They are now sending out a list of demands for owners who inform CI of their intent to close and using the so called mutual release as leverage to make all owners comply. But they won’t let owners who request a copy of the mutual release see it until the owners comply with Curves demands. It probably is similar to the old mutual release which prevents the owners from suing curves but allows curves to sue them. They are still sending out the over night letters from UPS which are called demand letters which state they are terminating your contract for abandonment and unless you pay all remaining franchise fees and advertising fees they will turn you over to CI’s legal department. It is just a change in their strategy but they still use intimidation tactics to force owners who have lost everything into paying them more money. I guess we can start calling Howie the lizard as he can change his color but his spots are easy to distinguish. Once a crook always a crook.
Hey Unhappy–
On Jan. 14 you wrote: (quote) There has been an interesting development in the 24/7 clubs as of today but I am not in the liberty to explain what has happened as of yet but will keep you informed of what is happening on this in the next few weeks. I can tell you that Curves International is once again using underhanded and unethical tactics to try to prevent any more 24/7 clubs and to close the ones that are open. (unquote).
Do you have anymore information on this development that you can share with us?
does anyone here know how many clubs are left?
We are looking to sell ours are we keep dropping in members from 750 in 08 to 512 today and dropping.
We cant compete with planet fitnes..it wont happen.
To nolongercurvesgal,
Yes There is new news on the 24/7 clubs. Three Curves owners in Ca have been sent actual letters of termination for operating a Curves 24/7 club. One of those was actually closed at the time it received the termination letter. The other two have both stated that if they had not gone 24/7 they would have had to close so by doing what is clearly not against any conditions set forth in the franchise agreement they have been unfairly punished. Actually the owners of both of these clubs have been thankful that CI has taken this action as they are now independent clubs and seem to be thriving at this time. In the franchise agreement the only thing mentioned about a clubs hours is that there is a minimum amount of hours that one can be open. As long as you conform to the minimum amount of hours CI has no right to dictate the number of hours you are open. Curves International has sent letters out to all three clubs telling them that they are in violation and unless they stop immediately that they will file cease and desist orders against them and sue them for a trade mark violation. The funny thing here is that CI would have to get the courts in Waco TX to agree with the cease and desist order but as both of the clubs are out of states the order would be worthless and non enforceable in most states. But the owners would have to hire a attorney to fight the cases if it gets to that. It is very doubtful that Curves would even consider a legal case knowing that all it would do is to cost the owners more money when they are hurti