LIBERTY TAX SERVICE Franchise Complaints

5,730 thoughts on “LIBERTY TAX SERVICE Franchise Complaints”

• I have been reading this website for several months. I think it is very sad that the franchisee’s are uncomfortable using their names but know why. I have been told that if you post anything on the Liberty discussion board that is not a glowing account of anything they do, you are kicked off and have had someone tell me they were! So, does the corporate office think if they can intimidate you enough that all issues will just go away? It seems to me that a franchisee association would be just the dose of reality that would help.
  I am also wondering if anyone knows about the law suit that is refered to in a post from October that also has Annie mentioned along with Danny and John?
  Also, wondering about the letter that some say you must sign if you renew that says that you will not hold them liable for any wrong doing, known or unknown? How can a person sign a contract giving away a right that they don’t know about with out compensation?
  Also, wondering if anyone has pushed the no compete in California?
  Lots of wondering after reading all these posts.

• Bill thanks

• To all potential Liberty franchisees:

  This site has a lot of good information from people who invested with this company and lost. If you read their post you will see some venting but must are forthright in their experiences and are only providing their stories to help others make an informed decision.

  Basis information about the tax industry.

  The tax industry is a very competitive industry.
  It is a three month business.
  Over 60% of the people filing will file by the middle of February.
  Most people are loyal to their taxpreparers, with customer retention over 60%.
  As an E-filer you will be required to obtain an efin number. Unless you are an attorney, CPA or EA you will need to submit fingerprints, background check and suitiability check.
  As a taxpreparer you will need to obtain a P-tin – cost 69.00 a year
  You will need to pass a Registered tax return preparer test. – cost 116.00.
  15 hours of continuing education per year.

  As a potential franchisee you not Liberty will be specifically responsible for obtaining these things.

  Efin process can take 4-8 weeks. If you are going to open your doors for business by January. You need to submt your application no later then November 30th.

  If you purchase a franchise after October 1st where will you find the staff for your store that Liberty says you will need? Who will pay the fees?

  Retention in this industry is 60% or better how will Liberty help you attract customers?
  Keep in mind they have no national or regional advertising program.

  These are real questions that you need to answer before buying a Liberty or any other type of tax franchise.

• Also, the Liberty franchisees can’t post on this site under Liberty Tax, they must post under Jackson Hewitt…hahaha..the dictator/franchisor speaks…they jump!!!

• does anybody know if Liberty will enforse their NON COMPETE AGREEMENT? I am stopping drinking the koolade and starting my own business!!!

• Springspro:

  GET OUT, JUMP OUT, RUN!! As far as I have seen, they will send some letters etc. I would just start letting your customers know that you will not be opening a Liberty office…

• @mike. thanks. from what I heard they don’t really enforce their non compete agreements. my neighbor didn’t pay royalties then left and took customers. it seemed to work out for her

• They will enforce the non-compete. At least they did it to a few of us through their legal department.

• Pingback: LIBERTY TAX Fraud: Preparer Could Get Prison Time - Unhappy Franchisee : Unhappy Franchisee

• Does JTH allow or even encourage franchisees and preparers to push the limits in order to get customers higher EIC amounts and higher refunds?

  We have heard allegations that some Liberty Tax preparers will prompt customers to invent side businesses and declare non-existent income in order to hit the EIC sweet spot.

  Is there truth to that? Have you or your preparers done it? Where’s the line you draw?

  It’s an important question, seeing as though a preparer for a Michigan Liberty Tax franchise is looking at a possible 3 year prison term fr fraud on 40 returns.

  Comments encouraged:

  LIBERTY TAX Fraud: Preparer Could Get Prison Time

• JTH has gone to great lengths to encourage this practice. The higher the EIC, the higher your fee. Its that simple.

• well to be honest- i have never been encouraged to be anything but above board in prepareing taxes with or without EIC either by corporate my AD or the other zees in my area- not sure about the comment higher the EIC the higher the fee- the suggested price grid if form based- so the refund amount doesn’t figure in the calculation

• During my years as a franchisee, I never heard corporate condoning, training, etc. the falsifying of tax returns to get money for a client they weren’t legally allowed to get. They advertise they will get you the maximum amount allowed or your money back but never something illegal. I’m sure there are corrupt ADs and zees that have done this no doubt but I think my ADs were too incompetent to even think about something like this in the first place.

  @Texastee

  “JTH has gone to great lengths to encourage this practice. The higher the EIC, the higher your fee. Its that simple.”

  Your comment is simply false. the fees are form based so just because EIC might be higher does not mean a client pays higher fees. The EIC form might be $75 whether the client gets $2,000 or $5,000 in EIC.

• Definately NOT true. Fees not based on refunds. Fees based on forms. If you say fees are based on refund, I would say you are not running a franchised tax store. Sometimes tax preparers ‘fix up’ returns on their own. I noticed the article does not say which store she worked at. Also she was charged, not the store owner. Even if you don’t like company, there is no need to try to hurt other people who are involved in it.

• In the training that was given to me “after hours” at the initial training, it was directly spelled out by the trainers that this practice was the way to “add value” to the services you provide and thus raise fees. My AD agreed with it but he had no tax background. I can only speak for myself .

• Anyone here ever attend sales building training by Annie Fuller, or hear her speak?

  What did she have to say about the role of maximizing EIC and refunds in order to build sales, referrals and repeat business?

• ANYONE CONSIDERING BUYING A LIBERTY TAX FRANCHISE, DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE AND AFTER YOU GO TO YOUR FIRST SALES MEETING!! Get the TRUTH before you sign!!

• Liberty says to not do background checks on new hires when I had a franchise. I had one person who did some shady things both in the office and elsewhere. She is now serving prison time.

• @Another Zee
  the best thing you can do at this point is file for bankruptcy. They will think they have the upper hand, however, move everything you own out of the building it belongs to you.
  It is amazing how many Franchisee’s went out of business in my area. Just shut the doors after 5 years with no renewal. And guess what, they have to abide by the 2 year 25 mile non-compete in the franchise agreement. They are not. I spoke to them. When I was forced to bankrupt it did not mean that I forgot who my friends were. I built some close relationships with the store close to me. I was more proactive than most franchisees in my area and all I got was thrown from the business with nothing to show. Several franchisees called me to ask me what happened and actually were not surprised at what the CEO does to franchisees who cannot do more than 500 returns by third year. Kick you to the curb. It does not matter it you are a veteran or not. Does not matter if you fought for this country He will take your time and money and basically get rid of you. Nice business partner. Way to go.

• TexasTee: When I was a franchisee I never was encouraged by corp. to have people complete a schedule C. If I recall correctly we were actual told to be aware of people claiming they had babysitting businesses. However, I do believe that JTH did turn a blind eye to people who aggressively marketed their business like Anne Fuller and the gentleman from Detroit. For their own protection they used these individuals to teach quesionable marketing and tax practices.

• Another zee: What are are you from I was in southern NJ.

• @Liberzee

  I have heard Annie Fuller several times and I can say that all I’ve ever heard is that we should get as much back for the client that they are legally allowed to get back. The satisfaction guarantee states: “Accuracy Guarantee – Our offices will give you the most accurate return and the largest possible refund, or work to find more deductions or breaks to lower your tax liability. If the office makes an error in the preparation of your return that results in penalties and interest, the office will reimburse you for the associated penalty and interest initially assessed.”

  Sure glad I’m out of the debacle with them!!! I hope others can get out too.

• @Bill – You are right on, they use others as the frontman such as Fuller for their schemes until recently after the lawsuits.

  @Dodgerdawg- You are so full of chyt, it is getting old from your first comment to your facebook conversations with me. Keep posting and becoming obvious who you are. I encourage it, use your real name.

  Keep sharing and keep in mind when you came into the program and how much things have changed. You may not be aware of old trainings as those things have been “lost” off of znet and the database for their defense in current cases. Not all of the contracts read the same depending on circumstances and what they think you know.
  As SpringPro said, you get banned from the discussion board for asking questions….then you are targeted so watch yourself closely if you so much as even question a royalty charge or an inaccurate report on znet concerning your numbers or entity info. And DO NOT let them know you have ever spoken to Annie Fuller since her termination or that you even care about the story. That is why many cannot use their names. I am the ONLY one who uses my name because I have enough evidence to support every word I say. As far as the non-compete clause and other contract concerns which are vague and too restrictive, you would be a fool not to get an attorney before incriminating yourself and putting yourself in front of a firing squad. They are spending plenty of their budget at this time on legal matters and need to control this outbreak.

  -Trisha

• @Trisha

  Why don’t you get off your high horse and quit acting like you’re the only person who has been wronged, lost money, been screwed by Liberty, etc. and that you’re the only one who knows anything about Liberty Tax. I don’t recall facebook conversations with you at all since you never answer any questions from me. Typically conversations are between two or more people and you don’t answer me. Just because I got out of the system at the right time of my own free will, you are bitter and tell me I’m full of “chyt”. Really, so you sat in all my training sessions with me to know what I’ve been told? You’ve seen my contracts to know what was written in them? You’ve spent time in my offices to know how I ran my business?

  Let’s not forget Trisha why it was you’re so bitter at Liberty. It was you who didn’t follow the terms and requirements of your franchise agreement that you agreed to follow. That’s why you got termed and lost your franchise. Me on the other hand, I had an opportunity to get out and did. I could see the writing on the wall with the industry (retail tax prep like Liberty) and moved on.

  Funny thing is, I’m trying to be fair and honest here and encourage people to do their due diligence and learn from my experiences as well as others. If I have something of value that helps someone else, I hope it benefits that person. But to flat out lie and make false statements against Liberty or someone else is dishonest and something I won’t do and I wouldn’t expect anything less from you.

  It’s possible that you were in training meetings where people told you to do illegal things to, I don’t know as I wasn’t there, but I’m not calling you a liar because you say you have. But I can assure you and everyone else on this board, I personally never heard one person encourage me to do anything illegal – I was instructed that I should get as much back as the client is *legally* entitled to receive and I believe that all preparers – whether at Liberty, Block, JH, or a CPA has the obligation and duty to their client to do.

• UnhappyFranchisee.Com received a copy of an internal email in which Annie Fuller gave an overview of the sales techniques she taught in her celebrated sales-building seminars and workshops.

  I will post a section at a time, but would like to get feedback on how many franchisees/preparers use these kinds of sales tricks to raise and justify their fees.

  LIBERTY TAX Leaked Email Exposes Sleazy Sales Tactics

  It seems that Liberty Tax franchisees may join thinking they will be tax preparers then are pushed to use questionable hard-sell techniques in order to survive. Any truth to that?

• Let me clarify my knowledge of Annie Fuller. As I recall, she was exiting the system as I was entering the system so I believe I only heard from her a very limited number of times. All of my training were through Liberty at their place and then online training which were both no doubt vetted for content. I also had local training sessions with folks in my area which had nothing to do with Annie Fuller. It is quite possible that there were “after hours” training going on in places but all my training never mentioned doing anything illegal.

• A couple of points worth noting about the new Annie Fuller sales class posts:

  – These were “train-the-trainer” type presentations she was teaching, so I would assume that even after she left her students (hundreds of franchisees, trainers?) continued to promote and re-teach the tactics she was promoting.

  – While some may say these are isolated practices promoted by a single, renegade trainer, this email was copied to others in the organization, including Danny Hewitt. In fact, there’s a note to Danny on the original email that seems to indicate Danny had requested the script numerous times:

  Fuller writes to Danny Hewitt: “…Danny, please keep this email script in case others need it, I don’t have time to do it over and over I’m sorry! every training I’ve done, almost, had this… surely they can find a zee who went to one, or already uses it and go see it in action maybe?”

  I’m sure all franchisees or preparers don’t use these techniques. I hope those who post comments on this site can help shed some light on what percentage do, and to what extent JTH condones or promotes the hard-sell approach. Thanks. ADMIN

• I have been a preparer for Liberty (Baltimore area) for the past two years, and I have never been told to encourage customers to file fraudulent Schedule C’s. In fact, we are told to turn people away if we suspect fraud, and to make sure they provide the proper documentation for a Schedule C. Believe me, I have let customers walk who tried it with me, or tried to file for EIC that I thought was fraudulent. I have had them come in and tell me their sister or niece or some other relative is “letting” them claim their “extra” kids so they can get EIC, because that person has already maximized their own EIC. If we suspect fraud of any kind we are told to let that person walk. I have no problem telling them I will not prepare their return, as I do not wish to go to jail for the few extra dollars I may net from that commission. I’m sure the fraud goes on in some offices but not ours.

• @Admin

  I was a preparer for 3 years and was responsible for training preparers in 4 offices so I can give you my perspective. I think first of all, a person needs to understand sales. As you know, sales usually involves an aggressive sales approach to “close the sale”. Good sales people (whether at Liberty or a furniture store, car dealer, etc.) should seek for a solid understanding of their client and what motivates the person to buy. This is true of all industries. There are techniques that work and those that don’t. I was not a high pressure salesman for Liberty but I certainly learned techniques that worked much better than others. One of those techniques is, as mentioned above, is how you present your fees and the amount of the refund the person is receiving. Keep in mind that our core client was that person who is lower income and in need of cash sooner rather than later. Here’s a simple example, let’s say the client was set to receive $2,500 in a refund and my fees were $200 to prepare that return (I’m intentionally leaving out bank fees, etc. to keep it simple). If I tell you that your refund is $2,500 you get excited and then I’ve set an expectation and when I tell you my fees are $200 you might not be pleased for one reason or another therefore you leave as a not so satisfied customer because I set the expectation at $2,500 and now I tell you that you only get $2,300. Now take this approach. I tell you your refund is $2,300 net of fees. I set the expectation at $2,300 and then with the client explain the fees and they are getting the $2,300. Even though the amount is the same in both examples, the second approach is far valuable in closing the sale. It’s a sales technique which is valuable and one that works – I have seen it over and over countless times. The customer is far more happy with their refund using this approach.

  Liberty is a retailer as is Block, Jackson Hewitt, etc. People shop for the best price – is the nature of retailing and you have to be prepared to use ethical, proven techniques to get business in the door.

• You’re off on a witch hunt. Seems to be directed at hurting the store owners. I didn’t think that was the purpose of this board. This stuff is hearsay, and not true. I think the memo is irrelevant and you are combining really past tense with the present. There has been useful information on this board, but you’re losing it by heading into soap opera ville.

• No, I don’t think this is a witch hunt guest 12 and I don’t think this board is trying to attack stores or individual franchisees. However, that is something Corporate does quietly. It is good to see a preparer’s view and great to see a preparer reads this board. You have a good point and I see how you are interpreting your trainings.

  The trainings did not label that this is illegal or deceptive, unethical or aggressive. People who used the approach on the style from Annie Fuller’s training did not think it was illegal, just clever and with good intent or they would not have done it as taught. I am sure good intentions were made from the people who used this approach to increase their sales price, add value, maximize forms or anything you want to call it. In fact many were so very proud of mastering these skills just as you are. But this is unethical and illegal to lead people to answer to our advantage by manipulating their answers to avoid walk-outs and get much higher fees to break records.

  I also agree there are plenty we had to let walk and plenty we had to kick out of the door as described above by others and I that was a judgement call per incident. I know a blind eye was turned to many who targeted self-employed EIC returns because some stores marketed by doing seminars to educate clients how to claim their own children from stripper clubs and places some did not want to market to. Some may recall the “don’t sell your kids marketing campaign”. (That means stop letting others claim your kids and splitting it when you can rightfully claim them yourself on your cash job).

  Nobody wants to do a fraudulent return when they flat out tell you these are not their kids or they do not qualify based on their answers for EIC/ self employment/ Schedule deductions that are singled out as questionable.You are to use due diligence to your highest capability, even if the software did not flag it as an audit warning based on the numbers or answers. You had to use common sense, but at the same time, not call a client a liar if you had no conflicting answers. A client can get mad when they are advised of unfavorable results and walk-out and we should not want those type of clients that want us to do straight up fraud after they are advised it is wrong regardless how many times they have filed that way. There are many we educated it was wrong to claim other people’s kids and they still filed with us once we showed them the publications with the IRS and explained they may have done it wrong in the past, but now you know better, yet some still walked as they went back to the competitors who did it wrong before and got them more money for their refunds. Many have seen these different situations and did the best we could to close the sale properly and do the return correctly with the information they provided. Not everyone has even seen the different presentations and versions of the closing the sale technique which resulted in many false returns being filed, unintentionally or unknown to the tax preparer.

  I recognize this email and it is not false or hearsay. I am not surprised that some do not have the email as a preparer or a franchisee. This is not something your area developer may have sent to you directly and if you have not been to her trainings then you do not recognize this “stuff”. So my response to ADMIN is yes, I know of a minimum of 20 offices that raised their average net fee significantly by using this approach with precise implementation of the instructions contained within her descriptive technique.
  I was in the Columbus Ohio meeting and there was role play with many other eager franchisees and managers who were invited to see how this works in action. John and Danny Hewitt were there with Annie Fuller taking most of the time for a day of intense training as Annie told us she is a very very busy lady. I was the only franchisee in my DMA to attend and sent the notes to the AD to share with other franchisees as this email was shared by many Area Developers as well. Yet, JohnHewitt says these meetings and this particular meeting I attended at a crowded hotel conference room did not exist when recently questioned by the IRS investigator.

  How do you raise your fees that much without saying price is related to refund amount? Did the client’s change or did Liberty change the clients by adding value and maximizing their refund? Let ME clarify:

  $$$$$Price is indirectly related to forms, forms are directly related to the refund amount, therefore the more forms you add (which should be necessary and proper) for the benefit of the accurate tax return results whether for mileage, charities, any schedules at all….the more directly related to the refund it is to the price they will ultimately pay and the refund they will ultimately receive.$$$$$$

  Without using this tactic you can not and will not explain how stores are able to go from an average net fee of $160 before this training to an avg net fee of $400 after this training with the same type of clients walking in year over year. Do you think Annie Fuller was a better salesman or she had more expensive clients than the stores that could not reach that high of an avg net fee for early season which are EIC-loaded? Some stores don’t have a heavy early season, some don’t have a heavy late season which we all agree are different type of returns. Some had busy early and late season stores evenly, and this technique is used on both early and late season clients to close the sale and prevent walk-outs with suggestive, emotionally-charged Q&A. It does take a good salesperson to pull it off and it does take a good trainer to train it as she did. I believe Micheal D. trained it better in his presentation in a much more professional way, but it still works the same. You avoid sticker shock by adding value to the sale by emotions as ADMIN is describing, correctly. I believe this site is right on about it being sleazy, to me, as in worse than a sleazy buy here pay here car lot way. But even car salesman don’t feel they are doing anything wrong when they make the sale, especially when they don’t know they are selling a lemon. I can tell you that my preparers were proud of themselves for using this technique and popping off incredible growth in both clients and fees.

  @ Dodgerdawg, you hurt my feeling on facebook today. You could at least let me respond before blocking me after saying I deserved to get terminated. And no sir, you do not know my situation at all of why I am involved and I clearly cannot see why you are involved here on this board if you had a happy ending. I think most here are bitter and those who are have all been helpful with good reasons shared of why it is a horrible decision to buy a Liberty Tax franchise. Some have been through the same, and some stories are different. I see many, many franchisees harmed and no payoff in this world would make it right for the things they have done to the people speaking out such as, forced to bankrupt and texastee and many, many others to include ones who do not post here at all out of fear. And you have given valuable information, however, you seem to play both sides and I have not told one lie. You, on the other hand have told a lie and have been in contact with me since May 29th and you say you don’t speak to me on facebook? You deleted me as of 10:52am between our posts yesterday on this site and your unkind facebook private message. I am sorry you feel that way, but I have no enemies and I only try to help as well for people to come together and understand why they were forced out by surprise when they followed the system. Many of us have common ground and new contributions, I do not want to discourage that. I am not trying to be the chief here, but I do have an advantage of more information over you and you know this. I have much more information than you will ever have to offer and you have not had enough experience to denounce me when you asked me questions of how to make your sale go through without problems. You told your story and it is accounted for. I tell my story and continue on this board because my story is active and I have information that will affect all franchisees now and to come. You supposedly had no clue of the current lawsuits and investigations and you never spoke to the IRS investigator. Others have, including me which means I was given investigative disclosure and know they have full intention of shutting all offices DOWN. You got out in time, be happy. You let me know what lie I have told, because I would sure like to know about it. I intend to prove you wrong about that. Thanks.

  -Trisha

• This is getting out of bounds here. I sat in on an Annie Fuller meeting, and it was close to the email shared by this website. BUT John was never in the room when she was teaching – so maybe he had some foresight that what she was teaching was garbage.

  She did educate on the name of the form in the meeting I was in – but her whole approach was GARBAGE. Maybe she used it to good effect – she was formerly a used car salesperson after all – but I always felt she went outside of Liberty’s formal selling techniques and that this was the wrong way to work with our customers.

  We ALWAYS are clear as to what our total fees are – Annie was not. Trisha was terminated because she was doing unscrupulous things in her store – she should have been terminated earlier. She was the outlier. I believe her if she says she thought she was doing what Liberty wanted her to do – but she wasn’t. As was Annie (an outlier).

  Annie was a flaming star who flamed out after a few years because her sales approach and customer care approach quickly led to DECLINING sales. If everyone at Liberty did what Trisha and Annie did everyone would be LOSING sales, not increasing market share.

  The fact she (Annie) was then sued for how she ran her offices is not surprising – the fact she then flipped to blame it all on Liberty is not surprising – the fact that Trisha and Annie can find things about how Liberty is run that is damning is not that surprising – the idea that what they are saying is prevalent at Liberty is misleading at best – my guess is you could find a handful of franchisees in each state who are along the lines of an Annie Fuller or TG – and it’s good when they leave or get booted – good for Liberty, good for the customer.

  Get real.

  Trisha, realize you are tainting the large majority of solid, upstanding franchisees with your personal campaign – and if you are honest with yourself you will agree that you were an outlier in your DMA – I’m sure you thought of yourself as a leader and eventually other zees in the area would catch on because you were one of the best marketers – but you were also one of the outliers who pumped up client refunds and used shady sales tactics – the others zees weren’t laggards behind you – they were just ran more legitmate businesses.

  Unhappy Franchisee – the email from Annie about her sales training – be real – this was not Liberty’s formalized system – it was NEVER on zeenet – it was a wild card that quickly got snuffed out (within a few years). Yes, Annie was held up as a superstar by Liberty – but for how long? Maybe 2 years? She may have legitmate beefs with Liberty – but this whole Liberty taught me to do wrong thing is her way of striking back at unrelated issues.

• @Trisha

  This board isn’t about you and I saying who’s right and who’s wrong here. I have the same Facebook messages you do and I have questions to you that went unanswered by you since July. I didn’t say I didn’t speak to you, I said conversations usually go two ways and you haven’t responded to any of my one sentence inquiries since July. I’m not bothered that you haven’t responded to my questions but yesterday I see you post a response to me telling me I am full of chyt and that you’re sick of me posting here and talking with you on Facebook… Caught me just a bit off guard as I haven’t heard from you personally on Facebook or any other place since June 8 at 3:08 pm – so I’m going to defend myself.

  I also have a Facebook message from you telling me why it was you were terminated. You didn’t follow your franchise agreement plain and simple. However, I don’t believe that’s the full reason for it because it seems a bit trivial to me even though it is part of the franchise agreement and it does give Liberty the right to term you. There has to be more to it that we don’t know – probably from both sides.

  When I first found this site and your comments, I was a bit shocked at how people were being treated by Liberty as I didn’t necessarily have those same complaints or experience as you and others have had. I can say though, that after you and I started corresponding (with my pending sale going through) your comments scared the crap out of me and wondered if there was some larger conspiracy against me to sell me offices. I was worried sick for about 6 weeks because of what you were telling me. Then come to find out, the buyer of my offices hadn’t turned in all the correct paperwork to corporate for the sale to be finalized. Honestly, you had me worried sick over nothing. We got the paperwork turned in and voila it was a done deal. I don’t believe I ever said I was pleased with the sale of my offices. How can you be pleased with the sale in which you lose about $20K and several years of hard work thinking it was only going to get better. I think I said I’m happy to be out – it was a burden lifted from the constant worry of trying to make a failing business model work. As so many on this board, I feel like I put my heart and soul into making it succeed only to be told it was all my fault and that I’m not “following the system”. I dealt with incompetent ADs that had no clues about running a business, lived 15 states away and would call once or twice a year and who only knew how to say “Are you following the system?” That’s not the support that franchisees in any business need. It was a joke.

  So while my experiences and reasons for leaving may not be the same as yours or others on this board, my advice to people researching Liberty is to DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE. They will sing you a pretty song at the open houses and show you 3-4 people who have made money. I believed that song for awhile. But year after year it go harder to retain clientele and keep them paying the same price year after year. The business kept drying up as those in my area started moving to online DIY software more often than switching preparers. If the IRS starts processing refunds in 2-3 days as I’ve heard they will, it makes the market for Liberty’s core clientele even more bleak. The reason a great many people go to Liberty is they believe they (and Block, etc.) have the ability to get them money tomorrow. That used to be the case with RALs but with RALs being mostly a product of the past no one can get the refund any faster than another. We’re all dependent on the IRS to process them as quickly as possible. MeF allows the return to be processed and accepted faster and Liberty was by far the biggest user of that tool but I think it’s now being used more prevalently by most software providers. Look at what the Turbo Tax type market has consistently done over the last few years? Online tax prep is growing by ~15% a year. That means those customers are leaving somebody (CPA, mom & pop, Liberty, etc.). It’s no wonder that Block tried acquiring TaxAct – they wanted a bigger piece of that pie. I believe there will always be some sort of market for CPA services but I’m not convinced that the basic tax prep which Liberty and Block offers will offer potential franchisees a solid, long-term business opportunity. Which is why I will simply say, do you due diligence and really evaluate the industry and trends. You will only hear from Liberty those things that paint a rosy picture for their future. I’ve asked over and over the question, what are the same store sales year over year? I’ve never had a response to that question because I believe the growth that Liberty is showing is simply coming from all the new franchisees entering the system (I don’t have any figures to back up that claim, it’s just my gut). So it makes it appear that Liberty is growing and they are but not really… I think these figures and questions will become more transparent now that they are publicly traded with more oversight and regulators scrutinizing every figure they present. Talk to several franchisees in your area (not just one you know) and get their story. Drop in on them and ask the hard questions. You are making a huge financial commitment. Ask for sales and growth figures over the past few years to see trends. I have no doubt there are those few offices that are growing. Talk to offices who have been around for 2-3 – those are your make or break years in my opinion.

• OK, where to start. Some of this blows my mind, some I agree with.

  Let’s start by saying that I’ve been an owner for almost 10 years now. I am successful compared to most Zees, but not personally where I’d like to be. I blame much of that on the incompetant corporate operations.

  Believe me, I’m no fan of John’s, no fan of the Kool-Aid drinkers, no fan of the foolishness they pawn off as marketing. I whole-heartedly believe if I was simply ABC123 TAX SERVICE, I’d have pretty much the same customers and numbers, only without having to have the blood suckers take 19% from me.

  The marketing side of things totally disgusts me. I’d prefer they simply not take the 5% from me, since we essentially get nothing at all for it. The excuses for having not one iota of a national marketing presence is paper thin at best. To say we’ve grown by more than HRB and JH combined is proof our marketing is superior. I’d argue that they leave out half the equation: How much MORE could we have grown if we’d have had a marketing campaign nationally? How much MORE would HRB and JH have lost in their down years WITHOUT the national campaign.

  It’s like saying you got better without taking the medicine, so it’s proof that you don’t need it! John is a master magician, and a great salesman, but his operations people stink at supporting us. I do good because I’m good. At this point, I only use corporate for the software, literally, I get no marketing value from them, I don’t use their tax support folks as they take forever to answer, and to be honest, I know as much as most of them do.

  Tech support is good at times, but honestly I do most of my own tech troubleshooting. So tell me what value I get for my royalties? Why do I remain? Honestly, it’s because I can’t sell the store for what it is worth to me. Unlike others losing money, I don’t need to sell or have to sell, so I’m not simply going to unload my territory to a lowball offer.

  I wouldn’t renew next time around, but as others have said, the best run part of Liberty is the legal attack dog division, and I don’t feel like fighting the non-compete to stay in business (though I really don’t need or want them anymore).

  Now that the rant is over, let me add this. I simply think corporate is incompetant, unresponsive, and indifferent. I don’t think for a second that they promote anything illegal. Unethical? Maybe if you interpret it that way. I knew since Annie came on board that she was bad news, and her methods would only work to get new clients, but retention would be horrendous.

  How many years can you keep at fooling new clients each year and losing them forever. It simply can’t be maintained. The falsifying returns was her going rogue. That was NEVER EVER taught on a wide scale. Maybe to her internal folks, maybe to her AD Zees. Never on a nationwide scale. I saw the training from her (her material, not actually from her though). The “Closing the Sale” mumbo jumbo. That material has nothing to do with the accuracy of the return. You’re still taught to do the correc t and actual forms. It has to do with fleecing the customer on the closing.

  Yep, the $2500 refund and the $200 fees is to be presented as, them getting $2300 back. Doesn’t sound too bad to do right? I think it sucks, and is totally unethical. That example isn’t bad, but what about the EIC customer that is getting back $7600, and your bill from corporates unaltered fee schedule is $525? You think it’s right to simply tell them, “And you can see right here that you’re due back $7075. Isn’t that great!”, while you leave out that fact that it’s $525 to get it done.

  I’ve never bought into that garbage, or the inflated fees to be honest. I will have some returns go into the upper $300’s, but I don’t sock it to the folks, and we always let them know what their refund is and what the fees all are. Let them make an educated choice.

  The BS of telling them if they don’t want the $75 form, they don’t have to pay for it, but it will take $2500 off their refund IS a violation of IRS rules by the way. As a preparer, you need to prepare an accurate return, and not knowingly let off things. Unless that’s a SCH A that they can choose not to take, most of the other forms are simply a result of the children being qualifying children and meeting age/income/residency requirements. Dropping those forms is unethical and frankly it’s blackmail. Let them choose to file or not to file, but don’t pick and choose forms to put on leave off to get to an end price that works.

  In the end, I think Liberty cares more about sales of territories than about the operations within the existing ones, but I don’t think they promote or condone illegal activities. That’s the point of the rant here. Don’t paint John and his folks with a broader brush than necessary, they are bad in many ways, but not for what they are being accused of there or in that other most recent posting.

• Watch out for the statement the ‘they intend to shut all offices down’. That’s another tactic to scare people. You should not say things that could hurt someone reading it.
  That’s not logical. Read a Circular 230, or consulate a knowledgeable professional.
  Sometimes even the IRS follows their own procedure. Also, you do have people, hard working people trying to move on. Stop trying to scare people who have done nothing wrong.

• @Dodgerdawg,

  Thank you for your respectful response. You are correct, this site is not about anyone in particular at all. It is a united effort to communicate efficiently and effective as well as affectively. Some of the questions you asked privately could have been asked on this site and I was uncomfortable answering on facebook which shows your name, especially because of your pending sale, my notice of deposition on a the racketeering case, and the fact that the facebook messages could have been subpoened which could have caused your paperwork incomplete to this day. I did you a favor, not responding to particular questions and your sale went through and something as simple as me telling you take it to the site would still have given away your identity if those records were requested at the hearing. I can tell you one of the very first half hour of questions was their lawyer asking who is everyone I have been in contact with and it was objected umpteen times and none of your names were given and none of that information was relative to their case. If you noticed, I was inactive on this site a few weeks during a sensitive time to focus on that case as advised. I apologize if there was misinterpretation there.You have to now know that I must have had a conflicting position at the time to those questions and others as it is not like me to go silent. I must protect people’s identities of the ones who have connected with each other and me. Many people on this board are in constant contact with me, but they know the disclosure boundaries I am under for the sake of pending trials affecting them or other people. But if you ask any of them, none of my involvement has been in self interest to this date.

  You were worried for good reason, and I protected your identity for good reason as I would with anyone dealing with these crooks regardless. IF Liberty Tax, as a whole, were not crooks, your gut would have never led you here. You knew something was wrong from the inititiation of your contact with anyone or research. And others who are led here are under the same worries over one thing or another-so it is not worry over nothing. There is plenty wrong with Liberty Tax that would have never happened at a competing company. There are industry worries I can agree to, but most of it is speculation. Things are not always as they appear as we are learning over time.

  I publicly apologize to have offended you or left you unanswered at the time you needed an answer.
  As I said before, I held my breath and worried for your sale and I know you did not get a fair deal on your close, but you got a little of something and that is a happier ending than many who faced your similar circumstance or opportunity. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard, paperwork sat too long or was incomplete or my Area Developer was incompetent or Corporate was incompetent. That is not what held your sale back in my strong belief, but still, I AM happy for you. I do NOT wish to see anyone else go through the stress you or others have experienced and did not induce/enhance it for you by my comments intentionally or without reason. You persisted and had it done. I was relieved to see your post that it was finalized and still sad that you did not get a fair deal at the same time. Just remember, you have some terms that you must abide by in your closing as well and be careful of that. They closed a 300k deal with Annie and then took it back and took action after the fact, so stay within your terms of agreement.

  Now when I say uncomfortable questions, you may not understand that some of your questions HAD to go unanswered, because of a possible negative impact on others’ situations that were similar to yours at the same time. They were sensitive in nature to ongoing cases for someone else and I cannot disclose certain things or a leak causes a problem. I am careful who to trust and what can be said, just as you were when you connected with me….so I truly now believe that is where our problem came in. If you have others phone numbers from this board, you may know of why they hold back certain information as well. If you know of people who read but cannot post, you may understand this same point.

  Absolutely anything we do for ourselves can be considered a breach of contract, because of how restrictive the paperwork is, so please try to understand there are things you are not aware of that will come to light when publicly and legally placed on record from court proceedings. There already is plenty on dockets exposed, it is a matter of how to find it. I consider all of us united by some sense, but there are also planted comments on here and people have been caught contacting and misrespresenting themselves as victims or people trying to help as legal cousel and people who have been mistakenly taken for ficticous characters.

  I had a deposition in August, a very important decision I made to put myself in harms way to stand for all. You cannot compromise something that important with having a comment taken wrong from being entrapped to be accused of anything including something as simple as diluting a brand.

  Perhaps the posts of your worries on this board helped you tremendously, because by you speaking publicly about it, Corporate sees it and wants to have a good story on here now and then to counter the bad ones that did get a raw deal. Not everyone’s stories are unhappy and that does not upset me at all. They do try to figure out people’s identities and that is why it is encouraged to use screen names, but they can sometimes read between the lines as they are to quote a recent close friend of the Hewitt family, “obsessed with this board and hired hackers with unsucessful attempts” and with good reason. They can hack your facebook, they cannot hack this site and it really ticks them off so they must use plants to trigger responses and gather info. His own family posts on this board against Liberty Tax, so you can imagine the worry is not for nothing for the larger percentage of people. That is fact and from recorded conversations.

  I must also defend myself and let you know it was recognized that I did not breach my contract as a reason for my termination. I was a liability and found out what my “other reasons” were in my deposition. Failure to lock your GRR on time was just an added reason and with several attorneys involved and consulted, there is no jury that would say that is a good enough reason to take a few hundred thousand from someone. The “other reasons” held ALL the weight on their timing and decision to term me who was a performing franchisee with good metrics. I cannot share that deposition, however, if it does not settle and goes to court, that will become public record soon enough.

  I hope we have a better understanding of each other at this point and can move forward with helping people.

  -Trisha

• @ guest 2, call Mr. Arrington and ask if the IRS is doing a 6700 investigation. No, the IRS can not shut them down…..fact is the Department of Justice is working with them to do that as they have the power to “SHUT THEM DOWN” and the IRS has the power to take civil charges against the promoters which are John and Danny Hewitt. I apologize you are hard working for this company, but to not be informed will be your choice.

  -Trisha

• Trisha:

  I applaud and thank you for your courage.

• @ the firm or office of qtcibs?:

  “Trisha was terminated because she was doing unscrupulous things in her store – she should have been terminated earlier. She was the outlier. I believe her if she says she thought she was doing what Liberty wanted her to do – but she wasn’t. As was Annie (an outlier).” What was I doing so wrong and when did my Area Developers do anything more than tell me to keep going and give me more money to continue and tell me to lock my GRR for a store on time?? Keep in mind since you know me so well, I was not the one in my DMA with contant news stories about misconduct, that was Rob Koons to correct you, and by the way he was my Area Developer’s partner at one brief time.
  It was like you were there, right? At the deposition?
  You can keep the same deposition exact defense for John that he was “never in the room” or “had no idea what she was teaching”, but make no mistake that he was on every conference call which cannot be denied. Let’s include the conference call that I emailed a complaint for when Danny Hewitt was on after Annie, saying keep doing waver auditions in time blocks the entire season, because that is FREE LABOR. Yes in those exact words.Then of course John Hewitt comes on and THANKS his speakers before his closing of the conference calls. My AD response to that email was that he was shocked as well and that conference call will disappear. I was disgusted at this tactic, never used it, and told my AD my offices will not be allowed to listen to these calls any longer.

  Also, let me point out that my metrics were always growing despite excuses about expansion, debt indicator being taken away, free returns, IRS delays, EIC non-pay delays, IRS debtors attracted holding up bank product payoffs and on and on. So IMO, the majority of my clients were happy and loyal and you are clueless what you are speaking of and a little dizzy from spinning your Corporate chair too fast.

  ** I am happy that you said I should have been terminated sooner, because that just means they do condone what you call outliers simply by their 4 years of delaying my termination? Such a contradiction with displayed self-interest of Corporate reaping off of outliers for extended time, don’t you think?

  John not knowing about Annie’s teachings is an absurd defense. Since when does John not know anything about each and every franchisee and employee? That is GARBAGE. I was on email anytime basis with John, just as Annie and several of you were as he reminded us every conference call that we contact him directly if we had issues, now didn’t he? You think he ever forgets anyone or their date of births? NO! And he is proud of that good memory. Annie was not rogue, she was SENT to certain people for bootcamps and I am not surprised those franchisees cannot comment, so I will for them. Anyone who knows Annie, knows she did exactly what John told her to do and had her hopping phone call after phone call to put a fire under a certain someones here or there, or put one out because people followed her as she was a leader and inspiration to many. You do not put someone up as a posterchild success, give them a spending allowance and have them tour the country where you want them to go and not know why.

  Also, IMHO, My first area developer was a good one on defense of all AD’s are incompetent, so that is not a point for Liberty, but for a certain gentleman who I have high regard for as do most in the DMA I was in and I am glad to hear is doing well with leadership work elsewhere.

  This is what I mean about Corporate being “obsessed with this board”. They sure jump quick when I speak.

  Oh, and thank you to all the genuine posters who are expressing their experiences such as Anon and others. Very good information given and I wish current franchisees luck. We don’t all have to agree with each other, but let’s set the plants aside and not water them.

  IMO, we never needed commercials, we had John Hewitt’s future employees sitting right inside the Corporate headquarters of the competition sabotaging what they could before crossing over. Like he says, “Know your competition”. :-)

  -Trisha

• You have not said why you were terminated. What did happen?

• Stop wasting your time bashing Liberty. What do you plan on accomplishing? You used to be “rah-rah” Liberty when you were a Zee.

• Guest 12: “What do you plan on accomplishing?” Enlightening possible zees that are going to the meat and greets, and everyone on this board was a “rah-rah” fan of Liberty until they got ‘screw-screwed” Unfortunately, many zees will likely end up here sooner or later, just find out the average tenure of zees.

• I think think Guest 12 is from Liberty Tax Corporate

• Good question.

  Trish, why were you terminated? I’m guessing there was a stated reason, and what you consider to be the “real” reason – share either one. This is not a sarcastic question – I don’t know the answer.

  And, is it true you were THE one in your state who was doing these things you now say Liberty trained you to do and are wrong – or are you one of many? If you are THE one, then perhaps you got on the wrong path and your complaints aren’t about Liberty in general but something specific to you? Do you believe that most (90+% or higher) Liberty zees do these unscrupulous things – or that most run more ethical businesses? Because you are degrading our brand – and you are wrong – but can you see that, or from your perspective I am the one not seeing it – and you actually think most (>50%) Liberty zees run enethical businesses?

  Thanks in advance for taking the time to address these questions. I will tell you that I believe there are a small number of renegades, including you, who got on the wrong path. I am not in your state – but like you I talk to many zees acrosss the country. I know of one person in my state – one in a neighboring state – you – Annie – and that’s it (both current and former zees). My guess is the actual number is double – but you are painting the whole zee universe with a broad brush – and it’s your right to complain in a public forum – but I don’t think you see the damage you are doing to fair, ethical, hard-working people who don’t deserve this. Whatever beef you have with Liberty – and my guess is you have a legitimate one – you should focus on that….versus the idea of bringing Liberty down to make them pay for your issue. You will not bring Liberty down over this – it doesn’t hold water – you’re just hurting them (and zees) with a smear campaign, and that will eventually fade away……….

• Liberty tax usually terminates zees for not paying fees. Its all about the money for Liberty. A lot of zees also withdraw at the earliest possible time since there is little or no support from the corporate office regarding advertising, tax or technical support.

  As for ethics, LTS goes out of their way to make sure there is an “understanding” by zees that the way to increase ticket prices is to offer so called “value added” forms to the tax return in the method of increased income for EIC purposes. Maybe they don’t do it with all the zees, but they certainly did it with my group early on. Remember, the higher the fees, the more JTH gets in royalties.

  I and my business partners were clearly deceived by Liberty and John Hewitt. The circus that they show you to buy their snake oil is very slick. We all know that. I’m not sure exactly how I will climb out of my debt that was incurred as a zee with Liberty, but I applaud the comments here that try to give warning to the public about the business practices that occur within the Liberty System.

  Caveat Emptor!

• the Liberty business model is the same as as the Jackson Hewitt model which is to set-up in low income highly populated areas where a tax prep practices could use bank products to charge very high fees. This business model is not effective in any other areas and now that the RAL bank product has gone away this model is no longer viable in any area.

• the Liberty business model is the same as as the Jackson Hewitt model which is to set-up in low income highly populated areas where a tax prep practices could use bank products to charge very high fees. This business model is not effective in any other areas and now that the RAL bank product has gone away this model is no longer viable in any area.

• My hope is that Liberty Tax crashes and burns big time. I’m sure that there are decent Franchises out there……..THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM. They suck. I’m thrilled to hear that the Dept. of Justice is looking into this………thank goodness. I Cannot wait for him to be shut down permanently. Happy Dance.

  This company & this man are pathetic. Stealing money out of unsuspecting folks……cheating the IRS………no national marketing………c’mon people……..this franchise has NO morals/values……..whoever says they enjoy this company needs to have their head examined. This is NO WAY to do business properly.

• These comments don’t consider other people. Still focused on 2 individuals among thousands. I would think that if you are not getting in, it should be because you expect to lose money. Expect to lose money.

• the only people that make money is corporate the zees dont make any money. they have minimum royalties you have to pay. at the end of the season i had about 10 grand left in the bank account and then i had to pay the royalties and i had to send it all in and then some. bottom line at the end of the season i had no money left and have been paying rent and utilites out of my pocket until season starts. you tell me who gets screwed. liberty promotes their brand on the zees back. yes some make money but they are few. most lose money. it is not as easy as they make it seem. it there was no royalties then we could all break even and maybe pull a 5 grand profit.