JAN-PRO Franchise Complaints
August 11, 2009
Janitorial franchises like Jani-King, Coverall and Jan-Pro are quite controversial, with detractors warning that franchisees are really just buying low paying jobs… or worse. UnhappyFranchisee.com asked: Is the JAN-PRO Franchise a Scam?
Here are some of the comments we received:
N LYNN wrote:
“We have an account we no longer wish to service – it doesn’t pay enough for all the work required.
“We gave them notice that we would no longer be working that account, but they say we can’t quit it until they find someone to fill it. I don’t think they are trying very hard. “
Jeff wrote:
“These guys underbid all the competition, so low that no one can make any money. If you buy a franchise from Janpro, read their contract before anything. Don’t gave them any money until you read the contract. You can Google them and read anything on Ripoff report to see what their former franchise people have to say about Janpro. I agree, they pay so low there is no way you can hire anybody, so low you will have to hire illegal immigrants to work for nothing because you can pay enough for the minimum wage because they bid so low onthe job and suckered you to buy the account because the cleaning is getting done for nothing…. Search and research if this business is for you, it is not a 100K business like you think, it takes a lot of work to earn that.”
Patty wrote:
“Beware, Beware, Beware!!!!!!!!! Jan Pro franchise is a huge rip off. The business tactics they use are very deceitful. They lie to you to get you to buy into the business and AFTER you have given your money to them you find out the truth. You will not make money unless you work 24 hours a day and do all the work yourself. Find an ongoing lawsuit and join in if you can or start your own lawsuit against them to get your money back.”
Jerry wrote:
“I to got rippedoff by jan-pro. They got me accounts that payed so low that I was making less than minimum wage. Since I posted my Phone number on another site I have been geting Tons of calls from people all over the country. I cant believe how many people from all over the country have called me. I even received a call from Canada. It’s really sad how jan-pro keeps ripping off so many people and so many families. What is really sad is when they ripoff single Moms. Now many of us from all over the country are getting together and we are taking legal action. I’m now a member of a National Class Action Lawsuit.”
Also read: Is the JAN-PRO Franchise a Scam?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE JAN-PRO FRANCHISE? PLEASE SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS & EXPERIENCES – GOOD OR BAD – BELOW.
jan Pro in Northern NJ is just as bad as the one in NC. They keep taking people money and they know they cannot provide all those contracts. I bought a franchise over a year ago and they still have not giving me all my contracts. Constantly I hear about people that have put out thousands of dollars to purchase these franchise and months go by and still no contracts. My husband was in their office meeting with one of the manager’s when a lady pinned the manager to the wall and asked for her money back. She was pissed because she gave them $25,000.00 and months went by and she had gotten no contracts yet. She got her money back , but its ridiculous that you have to go that far to get respect. Hey I know you get into business to make money, but why be so dishonest and sneaky. If you know you cannot deliver, why make such promises. Some of these people are investing their life savings and trusting Jan Pro to keep their word. I made a mistake and did not fully read my contract. So the fact that I’m in this situation is on me. I’m not going to say don’t purchase a franchise, However, make sure you read that contract before you sign. Because getting out of this is a nightmare
As a former Employee of a Master Franchiser (company like Jan-Pro) I would like to say I feel your pain. I only knew of 2 franchises and worked for 1 of them. The one I worked for was not honest at all. However, they made sure they did nothing illegal. Now we’re talking ethics…
They had me make franchisees sign TT’s or Troubled Transfers before the franchisee (saw the building) agreed to it. Most accounts they offered were very underbid. Their commissions are based to where the sales person has no choice…also, the sales persons I delt with had no experience. I have many years of janitorial experience.
It’s very sad to see people sold a dream, this is all of the money they have and the promise made to them was broken. They make promises to their employees that they broke, myself included. I know there must be Master Franchisers out there who are honest.
Remember this, do as much research as you can. This is your money!!! Tell them you want to talk to 50 franchisees before you make up your mind. Do not sign anything until you have shown the contract to a lawyer. When they say they will meet your designated business fulfillment it means 180 BUSINESS DAYS, not consecutive days!!!!!!! This is longer than 6 months!!!!! Do not agree to any account unless it meets your standards. They twist your arm and threaten you with the fact that if you deny business they are free of their obligation to give you what you paid for in 180 days this is why it is so important to know the facts before you sign!!!!! So remember to ask them if Your Master Franchiser or any representative has been cleaning this account (another franchisee) before you and were there problems that caused you to be the new cleaner.
You have the right to know how many cleaning days, how many hours they bid it at and whether or not it’s a brand new account for the company. Refer to the contract before you sign it, know what your rights are. They are bound by Franchise Laws, they know them!!! You should too!
One of their bidding numbers years ago was $15 hour. So if it took 2 hours it would be $30 per cleaning. Now, you need to factor in GAS per trip, Cleaning Supplies, Franchise Fees, Insurance, Payments on the account if any, Employees + Burden if any…Suddenly, $15 isn’t $15 anymore?????? You are responsible once you sign…remember that!
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[...] JAN-PRO Franchise Complaints [...]
I must agree with all of you also. I currently have a school that grosses 6985 a month. I bought back in april of this year. I thought and the ops manager made it sound like It would really boost my income and future. Because before I accepted this account…I was neting around 3400 from my other accounts I have with them.
So since I needed employees to service this large account I was inexperienced in all that is involved in paying the employees taxes etc….
Come to find out..after I pay all my employees(mind you they are only working about 4-5hrs a day at this account and 4 employees in total a day)paying the fica taxes,janpro taking there 18.7% plus the 1k extra for financing with them. Im only making 700dls a month!!!!!
I feel everybody pain. I would like to be in that class action lawsuit against janpro if somebody could tell how to get involved in that. thanks
I am from pa and incredibly unhappy. Someone please give me info on how to join a lawsuit
I guess that is a real feeling a gainst the franchise. This is far from a real business.
I would like to be in that class action lawsuit against Janpro as well.
I am a franchisee in pa. At first the sky was the limit. I read the entire contract, and utilized it to my advantage. I ran the numbers on all the accounts with the hours bid and the hourly rate. In the beginning the hours were o.k., and the hourly rate was between $21 to $25. The closer the rate is to $25 / hr, it is possible to make something. However, our master franchisor hears the stories from Virginia or Georgia about the guy that bids at $14 an hour. Whatever he is doing has got to be illegal. Now the master franchisor is trying to sell us on $20 an hour. At every objection, we have a meeting. He sounds like Obama trying to convince the smart Americans how great his economic strategies are. I’ll keep my 6 accounts that were somewhat properly bid, and that is it.
Here is a scenario about a recent inquiry about an underbid account: I saw with my own eyes before accepting the account, the hourly bid was $23.45. The Master Franchisor insisted it was $20 per hour, and what I saw was incorrect. Here is my dilemna, which I know I won’t get a straight answer, but I think the M.F. has 2 contracts. One he bills the client, and one he shows the franchisee. Otherwise, why would he insist it was a $20 / hr account, when he knows I would not take a $20 / hr account. I showed him on paper that a franchisee would lose money working an account like this. He changed a number in the Jan Pro EZ Bid Scam formula, and “voila”, the time bid went from 2.4 hours to 2.0 hrs, and the actual bid time was 1.8 hrs. No, Jan Pro underbidding? DO YOUR RESEARCH!!! I am not making this up.
Someone may wonder why I would be doing this and I’m about to tell you all. Between sales and marketing fees and franchise fees, I’m estimating over $17,000 invested. I thought with a franchise, I could use their experience, apply my work ethic, and we could all make out, and I could be fee of my job. Well, over a year has passed, and I am still working 7 days a week, and now the freedom train has derailed. A “little” bitter? Everytime I think about it!
Listen, plain and simple. If you invest in this business you are stupid. PERIOD. I invested in this business and I am STUPID! It is a scam. If you think differently call me [withheld]. SCAM. If you want I will sell you an Environmental Cleaning Concepts Franchise at a 20 percent discount to Jan-Pro.
I’d like to point out I don’t have an agenda to sell Environmental Cleaning Concepts franchises. They do not exsist. It was my sad attempt at dry humor .
I to haven had major problems with Jan-Pro In Illinois, I involved with several lawsuits,The major key is to not settle with the franchisor so there can be a paper trail,So they can’t tell new franchisee’s they have no lawsuits. As soon as I made my last loan payment they started taking away my without giving a chance to correct them.
I’m a believer you can’t do people like this and it not coming back to bait you,they are heartless.
Someone please send me information on how to join the lawsuit.
Hello David, I’m going to post my e-mail here. E-mail me and I can give you my phone number and we can talk. I can give you information on the Lawsuit. What hapened to you has also hapened to other people.
Please read this info about the situation with Jan Pro:
http://www.llrlaw.com/pdfs/franchise_times_taking_off_the_gloves.pdf
Also, I contacted Lichten & Liss-Riordan P.C. here is the link:
http://www.llrlaw.com/ca_clean_fran.htm
This is the reply I got from the law firm:
Thanks for contacting our firm about the Jan-Pro case. We do have a case
against Jan-Pro that is in pre-litigation in Federal Court. In this case, we
are attempting to get the judge to approve this case as a national class action
lawsuit. This means, that every franchise in the country that wants to
participate in the case can file a claim. We have not had a ruling on this
issue yet. Therefore, if the case is approved as a class action, you will
automatically receive a notice either from us or the court and it will ask you
if you want to participate in the case. If you would like, I can keep your
contact information in our database so that in the event it is not approved as a
class action, we can let you know and discuss other methods for proceeding.
Please tell your your fellow franchisees about this lawsuit, the more we get involved the better results we can get. I am a current franchisee in NC. This business model probably worked 10 years ago. However, there are overselling to the point that is a scam.
If you need to know more about my experiences as a franchasee with Jan Pro for almost four year here in NC, please email me. I will be glad to share my experiences with you.
More info here:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/jan-pro.aspx
So Jan-Pro did it again. Screwed me out of my money at any chance possible. This time they got me for 500 bucks. I love to work for free. Investing in this company is the biggest mistake I ever made in my life. Everyday a different franchisee of Jan-Pro of NEPA calls me to tell me how they are getting screwed. Jan-Pro of NEPA as far as I am concerned you are dishonest thieves! And to top it off you put my face along with Chucks in the paper to advertise with out my permission. Hey, Jan Pro of NEPA stop stealing from innocent hard working people! I officially am abandoning this scam of a business immediately! I’d like to thank you for basically stealing the money I worked for through college at 8 dollars an hour. I’m glad I was smart enough to start a company fro scratch a year ago or me and my family would homeless. The line is drawn. Thanks again
Sincerely, Joe Aiello
They did the same thing to in in San Diego,
After two years an d right after my renewal, they just called one night to say they need the keys of my place right the next sdya without any prior written nottice, they sais the place was not well clean ,,but read this:
THEY WERE ABLE TO SELL ME ONOTHER PLACE”!!!!
How come if I suppously don;t do a good job , they are still able to SELL another place to me?
All they want is the money!!!!
Is there anyone in Califronia or San Diego area who can help me.
On a nicer note, I’m suing Jan Pro and my girlfriend has quit her job to start a company to compete directly with Jan-Pro.
Joe Ajello—Good for you! You figured it out! But! are you sure you can support a lawsuit for a long-long-long time —or is your attorney working on contingency –or just on you? Good luck to your girlfriend and the new business.
http://thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com
Maybe if you paid more attention to your accounts then this website you would be making money you stupid assholes.
The previous posting speaks the language of the Jan-Pro franchise, rude and unprofessional. Obviously, it is a threat to the sales of new “franchises”, the backbone of their survival as a Master Franchisee. It is not about you as a franchisee being successful as a “business” owner. Otherwise, franchisees will not complain about underbid accounts. Since their bulk revenue does not come from the franchise fee (10%) or the management fee (5%), or from the insurance fee (3.9%) of the accounts. It is about them (Master Franchisee) selling and selling and selling, (did I mention selling) franchises, the accounts are not a big deal to them (Master Franchisee) in terms of revenue unless they (Master Franchisee) sell and resell the account to another franchisee. Please do not invest in this (scam) company.
I recently posted my complaint about Jan-Pro of San Diego.
After my account was taken away, my husband and I had a meeting to close the terms of our relationship with Jan-Pro.
I have to say that I already had the lawfirm that I work for, waiting for me to join a current lawsuit against Jan-Pro.
But after having a face to face conversation with the master franchisor, I changed my mind, and the reason is because this person tried to find out the way to make us either stay or let us leave happy. And I liked that.
On that conversation I found out that my main problem was because I did not have a good relationship with the operations manager.
We were offered to continue with the company and get another account, but, we decided to leave.
All I have to say is that if you are a current franchisee and for some reason you are not happy at all. take the time to have a appointment with a higher person in charge.
If we would did this before, I would not lost my account.
It is a fact that over 80% of small businesses, the backbone of this nation, are franchised businesses. Without the hard working men and women in the franchise businesses, the model would have failed years ago.
The fault is not with the system, it is the individuals involved.
Like me, speak to the man-in-the mirror and you will have your answer.
Don’t fall in the trap spread by greedy class actions lawyers – they are then one scamming you.
All these anonymous posts are deep. However, the facts speak. Compared to the competition a Jan-Pro franchisee makes pennies. So you can own a Jan-Pro franchise and be a poor business owner or be like the competition and be a wealthy business owner. I suppose either way you are a business owner.
Ya gotta luv franchising. People just feel free to make up their own statistics and state them as the absolute truth.
man-in-the-mirror states “It is a fact that over 80% of small businesses, the backbone of this nation, are franchised businesses.”
Really? It’s a fact?
The SBA states there are In 2008, there were 29.6 million businesses in the United States, with 99.9% of those categorized as “small businesses.” In fact, there are 21.7 million small businesses without any employees. source http://web.sba.gov/faqs/faqIndexAll.cfm?areaid=24
According to the IFA there are 909,253 franchised businesses: source http://www.buildingopportunity.com/download/National%20Views.pdf
According to my math, that would make franchises 3.1% of all small businesses.
Even if you lumped all franchises in with small businesses that had NO employees, franchises would still only account for 4.2%
80%+ vs. 3.1% ? That’s a slight descrepency. But if made-up stats and other lies help you sell franchises by all means continue!
You can always break your mirror!
Wow. Where should I start.
First, the system is designed to make THEM money, NOT YOU.
If you live in the Chicago area – LOOK OUT – its going to get worse.
Its common knowledge that Jani-King has a reputation for transfering a lot of accounts. In Burr Ridge, 3 of the ops. managers are now from Jani-King. With me out of the way, transfers WILL INCREASE – you heard it here first.
What should you do?
Get the monthly evaluations and keep a copy for yourself.
Tell the office, when your accounts are inspected, you want to be there with the ops. manager. This will prevent them from trying to talk the customer into a transfer. If you cant be there, have someone take your place.
Start writing letter to your elected State Officials. What they are doing is not illegal. They own the accounts – not you. You bought NOTHING but the risk. Tell the State Reps. that the laws should change to prevent people from being taken advantage of, hold the State responsible for you loss.
If you live in the Chicago area, you know who I am. Get a hold of me, I’ll help. Ask Bob for my number, tell him you want to talk only to me – it will drive him crazy.
Jan Pro Manager! Thanks for telling the truth! —and in such a clever way!
I love your statement “You bought nothing but the risk. Tell the State Representatives that the laws should change to prevent people from being taken advantage of, hold the State responsible for your loss.”
Can I use your phrase “you bought nothing but the risk” when I try to inform beaten-down and failing franchisees that it is the government who is pimping for the franchisors and who licenses them to use this exploitive and abusive business model to send the profits to the top of the financial pyramids.
http://thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com
Former Jan-Pro Manager! I love it! “You bought Nothing but the Risk” — Can I borrow this phrase when I write my editorials on the Great Franchise Hoax?
http:thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com/
“Can I borrow this phrase when I write my editorials on the Great Franchise Hoax?”
The great hoax is that you keep linking to a site that hasn’t been updated in 5 months.
You are free to repeate or use this in anyway you see fit.
I challenge anyone to re-butt what I say and tell me I’m wrong.
Dont kid yourself “churning accounts” is where the money is. By re-selling the same account, it creates nothing but profit. I personally think it should be against the law.
They have made several mistakes, these oversights will allow you to protect your interests ONLY IF you know how to fight back.
To be fair – I must say some accounts are very profitable, even after the fees.
The bad news is, unless you understand how this works, you wont know the difference until its to late.
It is almost like a Ponzi scheme, but here they use the cleaning accounts instead. I agree there are profitable accounts, however there are only a few and far between. After almost four years with the franchise, I will say that about 75% of the accounts they offered me were underbid and several of the accounts were previously serviced by another franchisee (the Ponzi like scheme).
I agree, Feix —But it is more like a Pyramid Scheme where the franchisors in the same sector compete to saturate markets to maximize THEIR profits —-and those on the bottom of the pyramid who do the actual work and produce the sales are eventually sacrificed to the competition .
The ONLY party guaranteed to make money is the company, NOT YOU.
I bet you were told you were going to be a business “owner” werent you.
A business owner/operator who:
* can be fired at any time by a party other than the customer
* have the contract terms changed at any time without your permission
* be forced to purchase unnecessay insurance
Sounds more like EMPLOYEE to me.
Jan Pro! you got it! Franchisors escape the expense and obligations of being EMPLOYERS under US law and prevent any collective bargaining by franchisees by means of the of the malicious one-on-one non-negotiable contracts that are upheld in the courts.
Franchisors don’t mind if franchisees make profits after they skim all of the cream off of the top, but as long as they can sell new franchises and re-sell territories, churn and encroach, it is only THEIR profits that they pursue and secure on the backs of their franchisees who, as you say, have bought all of the risk for the operations that produce the gross sales from which they take their profits. .
This business model called franchising is so often just a means to permit those at the top of the pyramid to exploit those on the bottom of the pyramid to maximize profits for those on the top of the pyramid by means of preventing any collective bargaining by those on the bottom. Franchising is all about preventing unions or any kind of collective bargaining that will interfer with the maximizing of profits for those at the top of the financial pyramids.
How else could some of the CEO’s of the big franchise systems make $5,000 to $6,000 per HOUR — unless those franchisees on the bottom work for almost nothing and are also responsible, under the law, as employers, for any of their employees (the majority of which will get no benefits whatsoever)? The Potemkin Syndrome —Franchising is presented as “apple pie” and “American innovation” and its ugly realities lie right under the surface, unseen and not understood by prospective and innocent franchisees who are sucked into the system.
What a nightmare,as soon as I paid off my loan with JAN-PRO in Illinois,two large and accounts I’ve had for years was taken,JAN-PRO told me in an E-mail the customer requested for to be replaced,I contacted the customers and said no and was disappointed we were replaced,most of the accounts here is only been charged $16.00 an hour, in smaller markets their charging $20 to $25.00 an hour,you can’t really afford hire the amount of people to clean properly. I’ve looked all over trying to find someone to insure my company,when I give them the sheet with the requirements JAN-PRO request they laugh and tell me no one will insure me with these requirements for instance a $100,000 key replacement policy,when I only have $30.00 in keys,If you know of good Lawyers and insurance company’s please post. I can go on and on,Stay away
It is disheartning to hear of the treachery at play in the Northern Illinois office. I currently dont have any complaints against the office (and I hope I dont!), however I can speak to the underbidding of the accounts. I know Former Operations Manager Personally and I agree with what he has to say.
There are a few key points that come to mind as I read through all of the comments and concerns..
1.) Sales & Marketing fees and internal transfers are how these people make their money. None of us like it, but lets face it, you agreed to it when you signed the contract. You cant cry over spilled milk!!
2.) We are all victims of poorly bid accounts at one point or another. I even have one or two. What would stop a true businessman/woman from reading and learning how to prepare your own bids so that you CAN CONTROL YOUR OWN PROFIT!! It makes no sense to complain about a problem that is within your domain to correct, yet you dont.
3.) I strongly believe that money is the root of evil, so I dont take the accusations of account churning lightly, however you guys have to admit and realize that you and the way that you operate your business are at the root of this problem. You CANNOT expect to give poor customer service & deliver inconsistent cleaning results and retain your account(s). If this is an area that you totally suck at, or need minor improvements with then you best get a leg up before the sharks do!!
4.)Sadly, some of us are good cleaners but not good businesspeople. Some of us are neither and there will always be jobs at the local burger joint for you. In this business, a good brain and a tough ass go hand in hand. You have to have a passion and a strong motivation for doing this or you wont succeed.
In closing, dont fault your inability to effectively manage your business on anyone but yourself. If it is more money you need, sell more accounts. If your account turnover is high, consider a quality assurance program with strict standards. I strongly believe that if you are doing these things, you will have little to no problems with the sharks at the regional office. If you are a smooth operator, and you still have problems. Then we can sue the bastards till kingdom come!!
Several people have inquired as to why my employment was terminated.
I was looking into the possibility that the office is engaged in questionable, if not illegal, activities. Up to and including, but not limited to;
1) misrepresenting information
2) withholding information
3) theft of property – unjust enrichment
4) constructive fraud
I believe, the office was made aware of this, and I was let go.
Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager,
Can you prove anything that you are saying?
Here in NC, Raleigh area they quote at $15 per hour. By the time they finish with the quote, you barely make minimum wage if so. The magic number is: 56.1% (assuming 3.9% insurance.) This is how much you are grossing after paying the sales fees, franchise fees, management fees, and insurance fees. DO NOT assume that you are going to have the account for more than a year, business are like regular people the want the bang for the buck. After all, Jan-Pro gives you only one year replacement. Consequently, you are dealing with just a year in terms of revenues with the account. If you are in business by yourself you will not have the overhead of Jan-Pro. Jan-Pro eats 43.9% the first year. Then, you have to deduct gas, vehicle depreciation/maintenance, equipment cost/maintenance, products, and do not forget Uncle Sam. Where is the business?
Proof.
Watch the court filings in DuPage County, you will be able to review the
material I have.
I am taking statements from franchisees at this time. I’m looking for a typed overview of your expectations as you went into this business, and how they may be different from what you received.
This is for the person who posted that said that they are ” Current jan-pro of North Illinois franchisee” I don’t believe that you are a franchisee. I think that you are someone from Corporate at jan-pro.
1. To your spilled milk comment about sales and marketing. We were lied to about this. You will see when we go to trial.
2. Jan-pro of Illinois stated that = ” We are all victims of poorly bid accounts at one point or another. I even have one or two”. What kind of Brain Washing statement is
that ? That is a Brain Washing statement being used by jan-pro to make it ok for them to rip us off !
Jan-pro of Illinois statement = ” What would stop a true businessman/woman from reading and learning how to prepare your own bids so that you CAN CONTROL YOUR OWN PROFIT!! It makes no sense to complain about a problem that is within your domain to correct, yet you dont”
The problem is that jan-pro doesnt teach you and won’t teach you how to Bid or get your own accounts. If you did why would you buy a franchise with jan-pro. Why would we pay jan-pro Thousands of Dollars and then have to read a book to learn this business! You Make No Sence!
Besides if you are so smart why did you buy a franchise with jan-pro! You make no sence!
3. I find it surprising that you call the ripping off , of accounts “Churning” when its simply Fraud and a Crime! This ripping of accounts happens alot. This is a criminal activity that needs to be preosecuted. I think that this needs to be looked into under Ponze schemes or under the RICO and Raqueteering Acts!
Jan-pro of Illinois Following statement = “However you guys have to admit and realize that you and the way that you operate your business are at the root of this problem. You CANNOT expect to give poor customer service & deliver inconsistent cleaning results and retain your account(s). If this is an area that you totally suck at, or need minor improvements with then you best get a leg up before the sharks do!!”
That is the kind of Cockamamy statement that only someone from corporate would come up with.
Why would we pay Thousands of Dollars and then give bad service. Why would anybody do that. We want to succeed but we can’t when jan-pro rips us off!
4. The following jan-pro of Illinois statement = “Sadly, some of us are good cleaners but not good businesspeople. Some of us are neither and there will always be jobs at the local burger joint for you”.
Then Explain to me why ever since I posted my phone number on another website I have received phone calls from over 40 people from all over the Country and Canada wanting to know how they can join the National Class Action Lawsuit. I have heard Horror stories from single Moms, Families and even Veterans. Why would jan-pro ripoff Veterans who have risked there life so that we could have our fredom. Is jan-pro sugesting that our veterans should go work for Burger joints? Those are the kind of statements that only jan-pro corporation would make. This is what you deal with when you work for jan-pro.
I think that we can all tell that = “Current jan-pro of North Illinois franchisee” is not a franchisee but someone from corporate hidding in sheeps clothing behind a trash can!
I read the following in
MASSACHUSETTS EMPLOYMENT AND LABOR LAW REPORT MARCH 2007
Independent Contractor Is Narrowly Defined
The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court (SJC) recently ruled that a “franchisee” was an employee, and not an independent contractor, under Massachusetts’s unemployment compensation statute, M.G.L. c. 151A. Accordingly, the franchisor was required to pay contributions to the unemployment fund based on the franchisee’s reported earnings, and the franchisee was entitled to unemployment benefits. In Coverall North America, Inc. v. Commissioner of the Division of Unemployment Assistance, the SJC relied exclusively on the test set forth in Chapter 151A to explore the employment relationship and determine independent contractor status, without regard to the independent contractor statute amended in 2004.
Rhina Alvarenga purchased a janitorial franchise from Coverall North America. As part of its franchise agreement, Coverall maintains significant control over franchisees by providing training, field supervision, a customer base, and daily customer cleaning plans. Coverall bills customers directly and pays franchisees monthly fees for the services they perform. While Coverall encourages franchisees to expand their customer base, all customers must negotiate contracts with Coverall. Within months of purchasing her franchise, Alvarenga told Coverall that she could not accomplish its daily cleaning plan within the twenty-five hour weekly schedule for which she was paid. Coverall nevertheless demanded that she complete all tasks and did not compensate her for the longer hours necessary to complete her work. When Alvarenga eventually refused to continue performing additional unpaid work, Coverall “discharged” her.
The Division of Unemployment Assistance (DUA) initially rejected Alvarenga’s claim for unemployment benefits after determining that the services she performed did not constitute “employment” but rather indicated that she was an independent contractor. At hearing, however, a Review Examiner found that Coverall failed to establish under Chapter 151A that Alvarenga was an independent contractor. Both the DUA’s Board of Review and a Massachusetts District Court affirmed this decision.
On appeal, the SJC analyzed the three-part test (known as the “A-B-C” test) in Chapter 151A, § 2, and found that Alvarenga was not an independent contractor. Under this conjunctive test, Coverall bore the burden of proving that the services Alvarenga performed were (a) free from Coverall’s control and direction; (b) outside the usual course of Coverall’s business; and (c) part of a business independently established by Alvarenga. The SJC focused on the third prong. Coverall argued that the Court should apply a “capability test” to determine whether Alvarenga could have been entrepreneurial and could expand her business. The Court, however, held that to determine whether Alvarenga was independent, it would look at both her ability to develop expanded business as well as the actual nature of her existing business. The SJC concluded that Alvarenga was compelled to rely on Coverall because it negotiated all contracts and pricing, billed the clients, and controlled daily tasks – and would do so even for customers she developed independently.
Here is a hypothetical, as was mentioned before. WHAT IF there are two bids and two contracts? One the franchisee sees for the less than minimum wage rate after expenses of $14, $15, or $18, and the other the client is billed for, say $22, $23, $25 an hour?
I have a question if any of you know or have an educated guess. What would you say a fair, competitive, profitable hourly rate would be in Harrisburg, PA. Thanks
Sonia I’m glad that Jan-pro gave you your money back because they were riping you off. They are afraid of more lawsuits being filled. Unfurtunately I have read on other websites that more people from San Diego are getting riped off. I have also received calls from over 40 people from around the country who are geting robed by jan-pro, People who have lost there life savings and have been left with nothing. I hope those people get justice to.
I have jan-pro and love it.I run my business because jan-pro enables me to secure customers. Jan-pro gave me my customers that I couldn’t get on my own. I learned at a young age that people that fail make excuses and are the first ones to blame others when they should blame themselves. I can not believe what I read on this page. People and many emigarants blessed to be in USA now want to sue…for what and opportunity that you couldn’t get before. you so lazy. Take advantage of the opportunity. jan-pro and America works and so should you.
To someone who calls himself Juan Marcos. First I don’t buy for a second that your real name is Juan, Your probably someone from Jan-pro Corporation coming in here and posting. I bet your real name is Richard Kisane. We know that jan-pro corporation and it’s attorneys are coming in here and reading all of these post. So now they feel like they have to post something to stop all the people they riped-off from telling the truth. Richard Kisane Oh I mean JUAN what about the veterans who have called me who are fighting for your fredom to live in this country and got riped-off by jan-pro, are you calling them lazy to? Juan what about the imigrants who called me and told me that jan-pro took there acounts for no reason and then sold them to new incoming people. What jan-pro is doing is NOT American.
Jerry; try to get some sleep – i think you are spending far too much time in front of your computer at all hours of day and night – i see it from your postings, brother!
Jerry; try to get some sleep – i see it from your postings that you are spending far too much time in front of your computer, all hours of the day and night. It might help you put things in perspective. Talk to the mirror, brother.
To the person who hides by using the name man in the miror. I think your question should be targeted to jan-pro. How can they sleep at night by knowing that they have riped off and destroid so many families around the country. man who hides behind the mirror is that the best you could do is to tell people to sleep and not stand up when they are getting ripedoff. I have received calls from people all around the country who were ripedoff by jan-pro. From hard working people who lost there life savings. How do you think they are sleeping.
By the way man who hides behind the mirror you posted a Big Lie on your post Dated January 22 nd. Now what do you have to say about that. Everybody reading this post go back up and read his post dated January 22nd were this person posted that 80% of small businesses are franchises. That is a bunch of BS! You thaught you could just make some stuff up and post it and not get caught.
When will I and so many people who have been ripedoff by jan-pro be able to get some sleep? When they finally stop ripping of people and we finally get justice.
24 days. That is the total time anyone is given to purchase a Janpro franchise. From the initial review of the FDD, 14 days are mandatory to review all information discussed and GIVEN in writing before you are asked to come back and sign anything. Afterwards, there is a mandatory 10 additional days for what is called a cooling off period, where if you discover anything fishy, you are allowed to WALK AWAY from any responsibility and not be held to the contract. I just spent nearly 2 hours reading all the posts to date and I am amazed that people are faulting the system AFTER the fact. If buying a franchise is such a scam, then why did you ever get involved in the first place? The simple and most honest answer is that you didn’t do your due diligence in fully understanding what you were getting into. Now, I know “Jerry” and others will immediately accuse me of being somehow tied to some corporate interest, or that I am some sort of lawyer but I could really care less. I do not work for Jan Pro but I have owned a franchise in the recent past that I still manage on the side for my brother. I have found that this system, like most things in life, has its positives and its negatives. Nothing in life is ever perfect, nor would any sane person expect a franchise based business to generate enormous amounts of cash. It simply isn’t in the design. What a franchise based business will do is offer stability, and/or build experience to new entrepreneurs building onto a proven formula. I am amazed to read so many posts about being so called “ripped off, bamboozled, and simply being taken for a ride while some one else made all the money. I laugh at that because these people have absolutely no idea how to run a business. None. And if there is one lesson for anyone reading this and thinking about investing in a franchise business or any type of business at all. First, if all you have is a Highschool education, spend at least six months at a local community college taking basic business courses so you can have a base of knowledge about how to run a business. Second, consult anyone working in the tax field, either someone on the Net or a local office and find out either by reading on your own or talking with someone about the tax implications of running your own business. And third, do your own research. Do not believe ANYONE, not even me, or even these so called “disgruntled” former Janpro franchisees. Because by “Jerry’s” own statement, he could be a sleazy lawyer walking the blogs looking to stir things up and fish him a few more clients.
My two cents….after royalties, management fees, insurance, etc…
Peace…
@■common-sense lacking a bit
For you not to have owned a Jan-Pro franchise do not give us your opinion because you are on the outside in …thank god for people like Jerry and anybody else who speak out when people are getting ripped off…..I talked to Jerry over the phone and seen proof of where he was ripped off …(how would you fell if I ripped your mother off) Jan Pro is money hungry and that is why they do not care if people are losing life savings….The Jan Pro system is setup to rip off the franchisee point blank look at all the fees …..(they sell you on the american dream of owning you own business then charge a fee for everything. The only reason why they are ranked in the top franchise in entrepreneur.com is because they sell so many accounts to new franchise not because the franchise are happy or growing thier business. The business is model is flawed but flawed only for the franchisee because it is a win -win situation for Jan Pro , Jani King and etc….Before anybody invest in a so called cleaning company call at least 30 current franchisee and question them about the company do let jan pro select the list for of franchisee to call and get thier honest opinion. I have a four year business degree and I had a meeting with jan pro and the contract has so much double talk that you will be signing your rights away once you invest…think about it what is in the jan pro contract protects you as a franchisee from jan pro screwing you over……NOTHING. Jerry is telling the truth anytime people start to speak out about the truth the first thing that will happen is someone trying to discredit that person and it is clear that is what ■common-sense lacking a bit is trying to do …because for you not to have a jan pro account or know someone who has been scammed by jan-pro why are you even writing on this blog …get a life
Bill,
I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. However, you seem to take a vindictive vexatious approach to what it is I attempted to convey. You have apparently skimmed over my post and failed to realize I am still a current franchise owner, albeit now a silent partner with my brother. I don’t think you realize how inconsequential your argument was against the one I made. First, if you had read my post, you would have noticed a couple of sentences where I stated that people should do their own research, thus empowering themselves to make the right decision about this or any business—really sound advice when dealing with any sort of monetary investment. Second, I also noted that they should not be influenced by ANYONE, including me, and should rely exclusively in their own research and due diligence—but you somehow omitted that from your post as well. You on the other hand have taken the time to attack a different point of view which differs than your own. That clearly shows your incompetence in being able to properly articulate your indifference to this business. I will acknowledge, again, since apparently you missed it the first go round, that this business offers more stability than financial growth. If I were to recommend it to anyone, it would be for a second source of income or one of any other businesses an entrepreneur would want to vest time and money into. It works, if you manage it to work. It will not work if you mismanage cash flow, lack the ability to articulate and develop customer service and business relationships with your customers, and most important, lack the hunger to run your own operation. This after all is a SERVICE based industry. We do not provide products as our selling points, but rather a service which is highly subjective to the ebbs and flows in a number of key metrics—economic, social, and in a highly competitive industry. Again, to summarize, if you bought into this system because of what one person said to you during a presentation and then failed to do your due diligence in following up, checking references, and having a clear vision of what to expect, I do not see how any reasonable person could fault “the system” and not take some acknowledgement that they too had a vested interest in doing their homework before signing anything. I think that anyone who can broadly paint any scenario with a single sided approach and completely remove any responsibility for their own actions is truly misguided and has failed to realize how taking ownership of one’s actions can impact one’s life.
Peace…
Jan pro is a scam soon everybody will know it…. Think about this if they offered you a certain amount of contracts they have fulfilled thier part of the contract …. Please tell me where you can pay for something and a company can offer something to you and if you reject it they do not have to refund your money….. If you invest in jan-pro prepare for the rape like a prison inmate
They prey on latinos and blacks ( this is a scam )
To “jerry” and ” the truth” and all others like them, you guys are absolute morons and you really should stop embarassing yourselves in public the way that you are. Jan-Pro isnt the problem here. Its your lack of business and common sense that is at fault for your unsucessful ‘attempts’ at entrepreneurship. I must admit, the Jan-Pro business model is very flawed and allows very little room for growth and profitability, but like anything in life “it is what you make it’. Jan-Pro doesnt promise success or instant wealth. It provides an opportunity from which you must attain those things with your blood, sweat, and tears. There is no other opportunity that will allow you to become a businessman with little or no capital, credit, or business know-how (which is part of the problem). Many of you cant even write in complete sentences or without misspellings, so I know that your business and financial acumen (look it up) is even worse. If many of you had taken the time to READ and UNDERSTAND the FDD before your signed the contract, then you could have possibly saved yourself the misery and headache of being in the uncomfortable situations that you have found yourself in. In reality, they havent hidden anything about the way that they operate from anyone here! They told you upfront and gave you the chance to exit without commitment. You chose to stay so LIVE WITH IT!!
@ Current Jan-Pro of North Illinois Franchisee …your momma is a moron
This is not grammer school this a compliant forum dummy….@Jan-Pro of lllinois
You have to be from corporate …You should be looking for job becuase Karma is a b&$@$
If you are for or against Jan-Pro I believe this board/blog is losing all credibility due to the nameless bickering. If you have something consequential to say have the guts to put your name behind it. Whether you are for or against them stand behind what you say.
This post is in response to a person who calls himself a “Common sense lacker”
1. You are not given 24 days.
2. The Fdd is Missrepresentful, Deceitful, Hard to understand, and Fraud.
3. Oh and Guess what! When I went to my deposition in Boston jan-pros attorneys admitted and said that the Fdd is very hard to understand. Even jan-pros attorneys cant understand it.
4. There is NO mandatory 10 additional days.
5. To the person who calls himself a “ Common sense lacker ” Ok so if I get this right you happened to just wake up Monday morning and do a search for jan-pro scam or jan-pro rip-off and you happened to find this website and then you decided to spend the next 2 hours reading all of these post. Well I’m not buying it. You can deny it all you want but we know that you are someone from corporate. Besides on your post you told us not to believe you and I can tell you right now that we don’t. If it looks like crap and it smells like crap then It’s jan-crap.
6. You asked why did we buy a jan-pro franchise. We did so under false terms. We were lied to. They withheld information. They Misrepresented many things. They were deceitful and Fraudulent. But hey don’t worry we are getting the real truth out so that no more people get rip-off . There will be news on this fraud soon. It will be on TV.
7. To the person who calls himself a “ Common sense lacker ” You said that you don’t work for jan-pro but that you used to own a franchise. But that now somehow, in someway, you now manage it for your brother. Are you sure it’s your brother and not your Third cousin that lives in Kentucky! Is your brother Richard Kissane the president of jan-pro?
8. You said that we shouldn’t expect to generate huge amounts of cash. Well we also didn’t expect to get underbid accounts that pay less than minimum wage! People also didn’t expect to get there account rip-off, stolen away for no reason. That is a crime that needs to be prosecuted with prison.
9. You said that you are amazed at how many people have posted that they were rip-off by jan-pro. I’m not, infact I know close to 100 people who have been rip-off by jan-pro. Wait until we go to trial and you will hear some really tragic stories. Then you will be really amazed.
10. At the end when you wrote the following royalties, management, and insurance. You forgot to mention Deceitfulness, Fraud, Rip-off of accounts and underbid accounts that pay less than a third world countries minimum wage.
11. You try and suggest that I’m a lawyer trying to stir things up. You want to know who I’am ?
I’m a simple American who loves his country. I’m an American who doesn’t like to see jan-pro rip-off and destroy peoples lives. Who am I ? I’m one of the many lead plaintiffs from around the country. I’m Jerry Vazquez an American standing up for his fellow Americans and looking for justice.
This website is called unhappy franchise for a reason Joseph and the rest of the Jan-Pro ,Jani-King and coverall supporters stop trying to deny the people the truth…this company is a fraud and we have some surprises for Jan-Pro.
Free at last
Richard Kissane knows this is a ripoff , we should get together and call all the black and latino leaders to do a march.
This a legal scam do not invest this company!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you let any lawyer read that contract they will tell you it is a scam.
Velocity Sports Performance At-A-Glance
Key Personnel: Richard Kissane, President and COO
David Walmsley, CEO
Loren Seagrave, Chief Performance Officer
Concept: A business devoted to helping athletes in every sport, at all ages and all skill levels, realize their athletic potential through advanced sports performance training programs scientifically designed to maximize human sports performance.
Market Position: Currently, Velocity Sports Performance is the only nationally franchised sports performance training company. At this point, the primary competition is from independent private coaches who typically do not have the resources, support, or facilities that each Velocity Sports Performance center does. While the company expects other entities to mimic this operation in the future, management is taking maximum advantage of the current market to solidify its position as the category leader. The ultimate goal is to make Velocity Sports Performance an international brand.
Target Market/Market Potential: Velocity Sports Performance targets six primary market groups: student athletes ages 8 to 20; recreational athletes; elite amateur athletes; professional athletes; occupational athletes (people whose jobs require physical strength, speed, and agility); and active seniors.
Training modules include: Speed, agility, and coordination; strength and power; flexibility; energy system development; and muscle regeneration.
More than $4.1 billion is spent annually on private coaching and sports instruction (Fitness and Research 2000 Report). Velocity Sports Performance expects to capture a substantial share of that market, and even increase the monies spent in this area because of the unique aspects of the brand.
Growth Projections/Strategy: The company began franchising on June 1, 2002 and sold 15 centers in less than three months. By year-end, operations will be open in California, Connecticut, Georgia, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Utah. International sales should begin in mid-2003.
Conservative estimates put the company at a $50 million operation by the beginning of 2004.
Franchise Facts: Each Velocity Sports Performance Training Center is a 10,000-15,000 square foot, enclosed, climate-controlled facility with 9,000-13,000 square feet dedicated to sports performance training. The training area includes a synthetic turf field, a 60-yard rubberized track, a hard court surface, and branded rubberized flooring for other areas of the center.
The estimated initial investment ranges from $250,000 to $462,000, depending on location, and includes an initial franchise fee of $25,000, plus leasehold improvements, indoor surfaces, equipment, working capital, and other costs.
Franchisee receive a full support program, including site selection and build-out assistance; staff recruiting assistance; training; grand opening support; marketing, advertising and public relations support; ongoing training and support.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Contact Richard F. Kissane or David Walmsley for more information on the franchise opportunity:
Here is another company the Richard Kissane(Jan-Pro Ceo) is apart of also we should check them out too.
Might be a scam also we might need to warn Nike and others partners with the company.
Contact Richard F. Kissane or David Walmsley for more information on the franchise opportunity:
Velocity Sports Performance
2125 Corporate Drive, Suite 101
Marietta, GA 30067
Phone: 770-955-1000
Fax: 770-955-1021
Franchising Information:
866-955-0400
http://www.velocitysp.com
If anybody wants to see a picture of Richard Kissane
Go to this lin.
http://www.sbomag.com/articals/SYOB/2003/syob_spring03_profit.html
This is his new scam a franchise for training.
He looks like Kevin Mchale from Boston celtics heyday.
This is a total scam do not invest
OMG, You are right. They pray on people take there many, little by little they take accounts away and to finish it off…The office people are so rude and nasty, all trashy, uneducated and mean. If you talk back they tell you will get a fee. There is a fee for everything. Please this is a total scam.
It’s a Nation-wide scam!! Do not invest! You will regret it, it is a nightmare.
There are so far 5 families in the state of Connecticut (that i know) that had purchase a franchise with a cleaning company. So far these, Hispanic working women have invested Sixty Three Thousand Dollars (63,000.00) because they were promised a set monthly income.
If they give you two accounts, it will only be for a month or so, and then they will take it from you without explanation or making an excuse in order to give it to a new franchise owner so they invite more people to join. Employees from the company are also owners of a franchise and I am sure theirs are doing fine; some of them have the franchise under their names and some under their family names
they charge all kinds of fees, don’t return calls ALL OF THEM ARE CLUE LESS OF HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS……
No gasten su plata con esta parrandada de ladrones….
Another victim
bridgeport, Connecticut
U.S.A.
This is in response to someone who calls himself “ jan-pro of Illinois franchisee” However we know you are in reality the master franchisor so I will refer to you as the “master franchisor of Illinois” This is in response to your last post.
1. You called me a moron. Then in your next sentence you said something that will give all of the executives at jan-pro and all of jan-pros attorneys a heart attack! I can just see Richard Kissane dropping to the floor. The following is what you said in your last post.
“ The jan-pro business model is very flawed and allows very little room for growth and profitability.” So “Franchisor of Illinois” you admit that jan-pros business model is very Flawed!
2. You said that jan-pro doesn’t promise success. Yes they doo. Infact they tell you that you will be able to make good money and that you will be able to grow your business and hire employees. Infact they have Ads that say that you can make $100,000 Dollars !
3. You said that if we would have understood the fdd that we could have saved ourselves the misery and headache. When infact the fdd is Deceitful, and Missrepresentfull. When I went to my deposition in Boston jan-pros attorneys admitted that its very hard to understand. Even jan-pros attorneys can’t understand it!
4. By the way “Master franchisor of Illinois” I just heard about the new dirty scam your trying to pull. That new dirty scam is really low. I don’t think that certain Government agencies are going to like it. I don’t think that the IRS or District Attorney will be to happy to hear of it. Maybe someone should call the local news station.
Thanks I was going to meet with them now I am not.
[...] JAN-PRO Franchise Complaints [...]
[...] JAN-PRO Franchise Complaints [...]
Do not let jan-pro con you out your cash I know personally how it can happen please run away
[...] Entrepreneur’s “fastest-growing franchises” list are commercial cleaning franchises: #1 Jan-Pro Franchising Int’l Inc., #3 Stratus Building Solutions, #5 Anago Cleaning Systems, #7 [...]
Here is something for all of you to dwell on. Haven’t been here for a while, but looks like things are heating up again.
I read the FDD. The FDD states that Jan Pro forwards the franchisee’s check on the 13th of the following month. Our master franchiser was paying us on the 15th of the month. O.K., two days? I could live with it. Now we are going to be paid on the 30th of the following month?! Isn’t this a breach of contract, unless the two parties involved agree to the change? Or can we use the FDD as toilet paper and the big book means absolutely nothing. Just something for show, to keep the Feds and SEC off their backs.
Maybe someone can help me here, but I can’t seem to find in the FDD, (kind of like reading IRS tax code), where it says Jan Pro will find your accounts for you for $20 an hour, or less from what I’ve been reading. I ran the numbers, it’s not worth it. And for those of you getting accounts under $20 an hour, God Bless You! Franchisees lose money on these accounts!
Yep, I told myself I wouldn’t do any more of this posting, but today, I couldn’t resist. There was actually something to comment on today.
Jan-pro Exposed on TV. Did you see the news report on Tv? Jan-pro was exposed on Telemundo chanel 52 last Friday 2-26-2010. The name of the Tv program is
Al Rojo Vivo with reporter Maria Celeste. People that were riped-off by jan-pro came forward and said how jan-pro was ripping them off. There will be another report coming out on another Tv station this time it wil be in english. Once I get it confirmed I will post it. They will most likely also be posted on Youtube.com
Hopefully more of us go to the media so that no more families get hurt.
My mothers friend works at jan pro and is a hispanic women she has alot to say about this franchise
What is the starting salary for a Ops Manager for Jan Pro, maybe the former Ops Mgr can answer or anyone else who may know.
-thanks Jason
Jan-pro was Exposed on TV. Go to the following link and you can see a news report that came out on Tv. People here talk on how jan-pro Ripped then off.
http://msnlatino.telemundo.com/shows/Al_Rojo_Vivo/video_player?uuid=7d4cfdb4-97e0-4799-9b76-6a38d058e95f
I am totally turned off with Jan-Pro… Never in my life have I ever wanted to kick someone ***…
They lie, steal and cheat the owners out of their hard earn money. I’m thinking that I own my business and the bottom line is I’m a glorified employee of Jan-Pro.
What ever you do, I beg you… DO NOT INVEST YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY WITH THIS FAKE *** FRANCHISE COMPANY.
Don’t believe the hype! The only way they are the FASTEST GROWNING FRANCHISE BUSINESS is because they wait until you finish paying for your business upgrade,make up lies, take your business and sale to another franchise owner.
THIS IS A PYRAMID SCHEME!
F*ck jan pro
I am trying to get my local TV station to run a story on the scam of cleaning franchises. If you are serious about stopping this scam please take 5 minutes of your time and email telldave@wnep.com. Tell him your story. I think if enough people let him know how these companys screw people he may run the story. He is the investigative reporter for the local news. Thanks
Hi Mark, Can you tell us were this station is located at ? Can you give us there website? Could you give me a call. You can find my number by going to this other website complaintsboard. or you can e-mail me
FYI The url of the website is contained in his email address (wnep.com). All the station info is there.
Piss off 2 the highest of pisstivity wrote “…the bottom line is I’m a glorified employee of Jan-Pro.”
What part of being a janitor is considered “glorified”? Just wondering…
That is the wrong email. I am very sorry. The email address is Dave.bohman@wnep.com
Come on everybody..let’s get this story ran!
Thank you Administrator I just wanted to make sure. Thanks.
Chuck Watkins I agree with you. It is a breach of contract and fraud. You are absolutely correct on your coment about the Fdd only being for show to keep the Feds, the Federal Trade Comision and Sec of there backs. On our first day of training they gave us some paperwork and new changes that they had just done. These were changes that would only hurt us and benefit jan-pro only. Not only that but these changes were confusing and hard to understand. Just like that they surprised us and changed things on us. Its not an Fdd its toilet paper.
Jan-Pro is a scam. They will take your money and not give you work. I signed a contract with them almost a year ago now. I have not recieve any work yet. They say give us your money and we will find the work. (WHEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). I hope before I leave this world.
Please expose this scam ……they are really just taking your money and we have to fight them
WOW….I’m reading all these complaints and is having second thoughts I live in the Texas region,Houston to be exact I received a package and is considering investing,Im a former business owner myself that had a fail business in the trucking industry & was looking for something to supplement what I used to make which is over 80 grand a year,I went in to a counciltation and was shown all these big promises of making 50+ thousand a year easy,can anyone in hear tell me if u have experienced bad practices or scams in my region,I know everyones money counts and some have invested their life savings i see thirty or so names in here but does the success stories out weigh the tragedy stories,just need some helpful advice,Im at the end of my rope do to the economy and dont know which way to turn to keep my family feed
can Jan-Pro work????????
Jarrod,
NO ONE can promise to make you 50k a year. READ the material CAREFULLY, you DO NOT own these contracts and there will be NO written guarantee to make any money.
I am currently working on a book that will teach the average individual how to make money in this business.
Will some people make money working for Jan-Pro, … yes. And some people also win the lottery.
Former Ops-Manager,
I have been waiting for you to return! I really could use your support and advice. Is there any way I can contact you away from this blog?
I just now found this website, I thought I was the only one who was ripped off by these people. These people have screwed me out of so much money its not even funny. They just recently took my last two accounts from me for no apparent reason and charged me over 400.00 on top of that. If there is a class action lawsuit against jan-pro I sure would like to know how to get on board.
Hi Dennis, if you go to complaintsboard you can get my e-mail adress and phone number there. I’m a lead plaintif in the case and I can give you more information. Hang in there Dennis, you are not alone. We hope to get justice soon.
I read the following article and thought I would share it . The Coverall Trial begins in May. Lets all say a prayer so that all of those people who got Ripped-off and hurt by Coverall finally get Justice.
Federal Judge: Franchising Sounds Like Ponzi Scheme
Posted Thu, 2010/04/01 – 19:12 by Corbin Williston
Is franchising “a modified Ponzi scheme?” Last week, a federal judge said it might be.
Janitorial franchises have long been a source of embarrassment for the franchise industry, and frequently attract purchasers with few assets and poor command of English.
A 2001 report by the GAO on FTC enforcement of the Franchise Rule found that from 1993-2000, Coverall violations had affected 2591 investors, and JaniKing violations affected 900 investors.
A 2005 news article in the NY Times noted complaints by Brazilian immigrant franchisees of Coverall in Boston, and a settlement of Coverall litigation in Los Angeles in which franchisees alleged fraud.
An August 2009 interview with Franchise Times quoted Coverall making this claim:
Jacqueline Vlaming, Coverall’s general counsel, said, “Every franchise owner who runs it like a business can make money.”
In the most recent lawsuit, Pius Awuah and 10 other franchisees relate similar stories:
1.They paid Coverall North America a “franchise fee” in exchange for which
2.They were promised a minimum dollar amount of client accounts to service each month.
3.Coverall entered into the contract with the clients and billed the clients.
4.Coverall assigned the franchisees to clean the client premises, and
5.Coverall would remit money to the franchisees after deducting various charges.
The franchisees alleged in their Complaint that they were never given the amount of business they had been promised, and that the degree of control which Coverall exercised over them meant that as a matter of Massachusetts law that they were really employees of Coverall.
After filing suit, the franchisee attorneys uncovered damaging information and Coverall moved to seal court documents. In an interlocutory appeal, a 3 judge panel of the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals said in October 2009:
Coverall has been charged–it has not been found liable in this case–with activities that could be viewed as highly unattractive[cite omitted]
It is not necessarily the disclosure to competitors that makes the district court’s order a matter of concern. Others, including enforcement agencies and potential plaintiffs, may find the disclosures of interest in ways that would not serve Coverall’s interests. [emphasis underlined in original]
The lawsuit continued and on March 23, 2010 the District Court ruled in favor of the “franchisee” plaintiffs, holding that they are in fact employees.
What has attracted attention within the franchise community is the Judge’s comments about Coverall’s assertion that its business was actually the sale of franchises. Traditionally industry trade groups such as the IFA have maintained that franchising is not an industry but rather a business model (although the IFA has on other occasions defined franchising as an industry).
Judge Young stated:
Describing franchising as a business in itself, as Coverall seeks to do, sounds vaguely like a description for a modified Ponzi scheme – a company that does not earn money from the sale of goods and services, but from taking in more money from unwitting franchisees to make payments to previous franchisees.
The Judge went on to say that he believed that in fact Coverall was in the business of janitorial services and that under Massachusetts law the “franchisees” were really employees of Coverall. But the use of the term “Ponzi scheme” and the interlocutory ruling have caused this case to gain wide attention.
An interesting issue raised by franchise law firm Nixon Peabody is the impact of the Massachusetts statute and case law on post-term non-compete clauses.
The IFA issued a press release criticizing the ruling as a threat to franchising in Massachusetts. As far back as 1998, the IFA took the (then) unheard-of step and filed an amicus brief opposing a janitor who filed for unemployment after being fired from his job at West Sanitation Services. (Matter of Francis, 688 N.Y.S.2d 55)
A bigger threat to Coverall might be the bad publicity which has caused it to lose contracts with Boston-area clients such as Legal Sea Foods and Cheescake Factory (NASDAQ: CAKE). Both restaurants paid Coverall, but the mostly Hispanic cleaning staff did not get paid.
Coverall said it had properly sent money to the Boston “franchisee” and that it bore no responsibility for seeing that the workers were paid. After media reports, Coverall paid the wages. Legal Sea Foods terminated Coverall due to concerns about worker mistreatment, Cheescake Factory terminated Coverall due to a number of concerns, and the Massachusetts Attorney General is investigating the janitorial industry, according to the Boston Globe.
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I am a victim of Jan Pro / Soy una víctima de Jan Pro
Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager!!! I was considering purchasing a Jan-Pro franchise and buying at the FP-20 level about a year ago. I had trouble reading through and understand the FDD, but H.T. seemed to be determined to get me in ASAP to buy this franchise. I wasn’t sure why, but I was hesitant to purchase the franchise, so I decided to try things on my own.
I’ve found that this business is not so easy to learn, as people are not willing to discuss how to price jobs, etc., etc., etc.
Are you in a position to lend some help to an aspiring business owner? Also, is there a way to contact you away from this blog? Please advise.
jerry,
This is Dave. We spoke before. My computer crashed and I loss your contact info. Please contact me.
jerry/dave:
We don’t post personal contact info. However, if each of you emails permission to exchange to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com I’ll forward it to each of you.
Thanks.
I’ve owned a Jan-Pro franchise for years. I’ve experienced the good and the bad (mostly bad). But, I’ve learned one Very important thing. You see, I’ve also started my own cleaning business and have several accounts that are not a part of Jan-Pro. The problem is they continuosly pester the contacts at the jan pro accounts. If you went out to eat and the manager asked, “hows the food”, you reply it’s fine, then the waiter asks the same question, then the busboy stops over 2 minutes later and asks you again, wouldn’t you start to look for something wrong? That’s exactly what Jan-Pro does. they call from the office, then the ops manager stops in, then they want you to go in and get an evaluation (all in the same month). This causes problems. In my other business, I don’t bother the customers at ALL. They have my number, I call them ONCE every few months, and guess what? They don’t cancel or complain. Jan Pro is actively looking to take accounts away and resell them to another franchise owner, that is why they constantly pester exisiting customers until they complain, and then voila! There goes your account.
Allen:
I’m glade to see that you are taking steps to remove the “middle man” from the picture. I strongly encourage everyone to do the same.
I have been in this business for almost 30 years and have never been so disappointed as to what I personally witnessed as an Operations Manager.
Change is coming — I guarantee it.
Wow. Being an “insider” allows me to compare properly from when I owned my own business and what I have seen as an Operations Manger, Director of Sales and Regional Manager for various owner/operator companies. Lots of misplaced anger out there, if you want to be angry at someone or some company, here’s where your anger should be placed.
Jan-Pro International or any Master Franchisor has an obligation to properly train, support, supervise their “regional operators”. That is where the fault lies, they accept money for the rights to a specific geographic area, they do not properly train nor follow up with that person on a regular basis. There are numerous “Master Owners” that I have had the pleasure to meet and see that they are quality people and are doing “right” by their unit franchisees and the actual contract cleaning customer.
However, you get some bad apples with every lot, because Jan-Pro International and others don’t do a proper screening initially, and they certainly don’t follow up and through with them on a continual basis, you get regions that are managed/owned by people that aren’t in the business under the correct circumstances and guidance.
Take the time to review the FDD, take the time to call all/most of the owner/operators listed in the FDD and see what they say about the regional master franchisor. Don’t just call one or two, you need to call at least a dozen. If they don’t have a dozen, call all listed.
Owner Operator systems are vastly superior to “traditional companies” both in customer retention and business relationships.
Be mad at the corporate office, demand from them to do a better job of screening their current and prospective regional masters.
I’m Jerry V or 1st Amendment. So that there is no confusement I’am not the jerry that posted at 3:54 pm. Maybe we happen to have the same name. I’m posting this so that other people don’t get confused.
I disagree with what you said about there only being a few Bad Apples. From my experience and from all the calls from around the country that I have received it seems to me like the whole company is bad. I have received close to 100 calls from people of diferent states and cities. It’s not just a few bad apples but the whole tree is bad. I have received calls from people in 25 diferent states and Canada.
The way I see it the whole corporation is bad.
Look at the numbers, look at the states effected, When you have literally 7500 owner/operators throughout a system, you are going to have some unhappy campers for sure. If you had 7500 employee’s, you would have at least 100 people that would complain and say their employer was a lier, cheat, thief etc…
Hold Jan-Pro International accountable for not training, supervising, inspecting their Master Franchisee’s. Those are the “bad apples” that I’m referring too. Look at states like Indiana, Kentucky and some others, they are poorly run, managed and have numerous franchisees listed that are unhappy.
We are speaking the “same language”, you want to “throw the baby out with the bath water!”. That’s where you and a lot of others loose credibility and standing both legally and morally. For every “one” disenchanted franchisee, I can find no less than 10 “happy”. Though one is too many, the organization as a whole must improve and to improve, they must choose better master franchisors.
So there is no confusement I’m Jerry V or 1st Amendment. This is in responce to the other so called J person. It’s funny how you posted that jan-pro has 7500 people when recently they were boasting that they had 10,000 fake franchisees. If they lost 2,500 people that is a huge amount of loses. To me that is devastating.
Every person that has called me or talked to me has told me that they can find alot of people in the office that they work from that are very unhappy and that are geting ripped-off.
Most people are very scared of jan-pro. Jan-pro uses scare tactics. . Some people don’t know what to do and many as I talked to on the phone have broken down and cried.
Do you know how many anonimous e-mails and phone calls I get? People are verry scared and they fear retaliation from jan-pro.
Have you seen all the post on the many diferent websites?
Have you seen all of the magazine articles against jan-pro?
Have you seen the Television special were jan-pro was exposed?
Have you read the article were a court said that this was a like a modified Ponzi Scheme?
If everybody wasn’t scared of retaliation from jan-pro then I’m willing to bet that 7400 franchisees out of 7500 are getting Ripped-Off and very UNHAPPY with jan-pro. For every happy franchisee I can find 100 that are miserable and getting Ripped-off by jan-pro.
Plain and simple the whole corporation is bad, from headquarters to the mastor franchisors. The whole tree is bad. I wish I could tell you more but I’m saving it for when we go to trial.
Before you invest in a Franchise from Jan-Pro please do your homework. This is far from a true business (you are an underpaid contracted janitor), you have no control of the business whatsoever. You are dealing with sales people (they sell a franchise to you, they sell cleaning services to other business and Jan-Pro will sell the account to you) that’s the true nature of the business. It is not about you as a franchisee, the more the can turn over an account and the more franchises they sell the more profit for them not for you. I will like to invite Jan Pro corporate gophers reading this complaint board to provide some real numbers: how many franchises sold in the last ten years and how many active franchises making profits? How many times an account is resold on average to franchisees? I really doubt you can provide real answers without compromising the corporation business model.
To me this boils down to ethics in business. This copied cleaning business model had been taken to an unethical level, and now had been taken to the United States Supreme Court in order to stop the abuse.
Interesting, makes me wonder why so many people “hate” one company. If that were the case, how does Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall and others continue to grow. If what Jerry V. and others were saying were 100% true, how would any of the buildings get cleaned that each one of these companies has contracts for.
Jani-king does over 1 billion dollars per year in contract services/janitorial business alone. Does not include franchise sales.
Jan-Pro does over 600 million dollars per year in contract services/janitorial business alone. Does not include franchise sales.
Coverall does over 500 million dollars per year in contract services/janitorial business alone. Does not include franchise sales.
Bottom line, if “everyone” was not making money, if “everyone” was not happy as a “franchisee” then how do these guys still keep growing as far as actual cleaning contracts?
The facts, being asked for by Felix, most do not exist in the “master” or “corporate level”. Those are in the “franchisees” hands to determine. My experience with Jan-Pro is on a “local” basis only. I worked for a Master, that had approx. 40 active “z’s”. Out of those, vast majority were “happy”, some “ok”, few “unhappy”. The master was a poor example of a “textbook” master franchisee, that’s why I continue to say, business model “flaw” is with the choosing of the “master” not of the corporation as a whole.
You come across as “bitter” about what may or may not have happened to you as a “z”, you may have a legitimate gripe against the “master”, but I doubt seriously you have the “standing” to fault the Model or the Corporation. If you did, Jani-King, the originator of this model, wouldn’t be in the business for over 40 years, even BSCAI has recognized franchise operations such as Office Pride, Jani-King, Openworks and others in their format.
Jerry, do you want to hear something really interesting?
FACT: The business model to which you refer actually violates the law in Illinois.
FACT: Happy or not, individuals in this State, are being taken advantage of.
FACT: Some of the franchisees themselves are operating in violation of the law.
FACT: Everyone must follow the law, agree with it or not.
FACT: The end of this business model is near.
OPINION: As in most cases, the greed and unethical acts of a few, will cause pain to all those involved.
YOUR QUESTION: If what they are doing violates the law, why are they allowed to continue operating?
RESPONSE: Good question. The only answer I can offer is that most State Officials are un-aware of the specific operating methods employed. That is going to change.
WHY NOW? Because one master franchise owner stepped on the wrong person.
This is in response to the other ( Jerry ) This is Jerry Vazquez or as some of you know me
1st Amendment.
1. You said “why is it that so many people hate jan-pro“. It’s because they are ripping of so many people and destroying families. You to would be very angry if they were Ripping you off or your family and taking food away from your kids. If you would hear the horror stories that I have heard from single Moms, Veterans, or Families you to would be very angry at jan-pro. I’m sure that if someone ripped you off for Thousands of Dollars you to would be very mad.
2. You wondered how they all stay in business. That’s because not everybody has heard of these fake cleaning franchisors. There is 300 Million people in this country. Most people have never heard of these FAKE franchisors. If you go and talk to your average person they will tell you that they have never heard of these cleaning franchisors. That is why they keep getting more people to buy there FAKE franchises. They lie to you on there sales pitch and you fall for there Lies, Deception, and FRAUD! Remember Bernard Madoff kept his Ponzi scheme going for many many years he was able to rip-off the Rich and Powerful. We are in a different category we are not rich or powerful it is harder for us to take action against these companies because we don’t have the resources to defend ourselves from there scam.
3. Bottom line is people are not making money. They are TERIFIED of jan-pro. Jan-pro Threatens people! Many people are scared of jan-pro retaliating against them! Many people have told me that they are making less than minimum wage but that jan-pro threatens them so they are forced into staying.
4. I get anonymous e-mails all the time. People call me all the time but they ask me not to mention there names because they are very scared of jan-pro. I have talked to ladies on the phone who have cried because of what jan-pro did to them. Now I’m not saying every single person is scared of jan-pro but most are very scared of jan-pro.
5. I have had People in the military call me and tell me how jan-pro ripped them off, how can they do that to people who are sacrificing there lives for us to have freedom. I have had single moms call me and tell me how jan-pro ripped them off. I have had families call me and tell me how jan-pro ripped them off. This is disgustingly sick. I think it’s time the Government and the Attorney General looked into it . I feel that they are in violation of the Rico and Racketeering Acts.
6. Jan-pro has many complaints on http://www.ripoffreport.com
7. Janiking also has many complaints on http://www.programcritique.com
8. Jan-pro and janiking have many complaints on http://www.Pissedconsumer.com
9. Janiking has many complaints in England on this site http://www.able2know.com they have over 15 pages and over 100 complaints.
10. Jan-pro, janiking, coverall and cleannet all have many complaints in complaintsboard.com and there is more websites with complaints on all of these companies.
11. All of these companies coverall, janiking, and jan-pro have many complaints on
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com
12. Janiking has many Lawsuits. According to an article I read on Franchisetimes.com “Taking off the Gloves” janiking has 52 pieces of LITIGATION ! Coverall has settled 26 Lawsuits and I know of at least 7 Lawsuits against jan-pro. At the moment we are waiting for Class Action Certification in the National Class Action Lawsuit against Jan-pro.
13. I don’t believe that jan-pro, janiking or coverall make that much money every year. You need to prove it. It sounds to me like you are just making stuff up and like a monkey your just throwing it on the wall to see what sticks. Now lets just say that if it was true then it would only be because they keep Ripping of so many people specially new people who have never heard of jan-pro. Remember there is over 300 Million people in the United States. They take accounts away from one person and resale that account a few times. It’s an ongoing PONZI SCHEME! I have talked to people who have told me that they have been sold accounts were they were the 5th person to buy an account! That means that if jan-pro sales an account that they charge $2,000.00 Dollars a month and they sale this account 4x times a months gross amount to 5 different people that is $40,000 Dollars that jan-pro makes plus all the fines, interest and other fees they will make allot of money from this Racket! If they can just simply take an account from you then you own NOTHING! You are paying jan-pro to allow you to work an underbid account were most likely you will make less than minimum wage.
14. You said that jan-pro keeps growing? Recently the president of jan-pro said that he had 10,000 franchisees. Then the other day you posted that they only had 7500. This means that they lost 2,500 people. This to me is devastating. Get your facts straight. I’m wondering if they are also counting the people who left jan-pro 5 years ago? Also how many of these people who bought a fake franchise with jan-pro bought the lowest package of $1,000? You yourself stated that you work for jan-pro and that your master franchisor only had 40 active people. If your average master franchisor has 40 people you are Not in any way going to get close to 7500 much less 10,000 people. But since you work for jan-pro you have to come in here and LIE and be DECEPTIVE.
15. You Refuse to answer Felix Question. His Question was
“I will like to invite Jan Pro corporate gophers reading this complaint board to provide some real numbers: how many franchises sold in the last ten years and how many active franchises making profits? How many times an account is resold on average to franchisees? I really doubt you can provide real answers without compromising the corporation business model”.
Your answer was the following
“The facts, being asked for by Felix, most do not exist in the “master” or “corporate level”.
I hope that anyone looking at buying a fake franchise with jan-pro reads this because here they can read at how you try and hide the facts. I mean seriously how can you say that jan-pro doesn’t have those stats? You have got to be really kidding me. Basically you are just lying. We all know that jan-pro doesn’t want to release those facts because those numbers would be very devastating!
Corbin Williston of http://www.bluemaumau.com in his recent article “Franchising sounds like a Ponzi Scheme” said that “Janitorial franchisees have long been a source of embarrassment for the franchising industry”
16. The whole corporation is bad the Whole TREE is BAD. I have had calls from people in 25 different states. I have even had people from Canada call me! The master franchisor was a jerk on the phone when I called him and I‘m not the only one saying this but there has been many people who have called him and he was a jerk to them to. When I called Corporate they told me that they couldn’t help me and other people who call corporate got the same response.
17. You said that I come across biter because of what may or may not have happened to me. What kind of statement is that? Yes I’m Mad because me and so many people around the country and Canada have been ripped-off . Yes we do have proof that we were rip-off. Infact I’m hoping that government officials like the Attorney General would look into jan-pro because I feel that they are in violation of the Rico and Racketeering Acts!
18. Did you see the Special report on jan-pro were they were EXPOSED. They showed many people who were getting ripped-off . Many ladies came out and said that they never got there full business completed and that jan-pros checks were bouncing. When some of these ladies went to complain jan-pro kicked them out of the office. How would you feel if you went to complain over a bounced check and they kicked you out. Jan-pro promised to fix this situation and so far it has been a few months and they haven’t fixed anything.
Jan-pro was recently exposed on Telemundo channel 52 in a program called AL Rojo Vivo with reporter Maria Celeste. Here is the website so that you can see it.
http://msnlatino.telemundo.com/shows/Al_Rojo_Vivo/video_player?uuid=7d4cfdb4-97e0-4799-9b76-6a38d058e95f
Did you notice how some of the ladies had there faces covered. That’s because many people are very scared of retaliation from jan-pro. Ask yourself this why does the FTC warn people about buying a cleaning Franchise?
19. You say that I don’t have the standing to fault the model of the corporation. You have got to be kidding me. They straight out rip-off people by underbidding accounts, by taking accounts away for no reason which is THEFT! and FRAUD! Sorry chump but that is not a business model that is straight out THEFT, FRAUD and a RACKET!
20. You say that BSCAI has recognized some of these cleaning franchisors. I wonder how many Millions of Dollars they have paid them. Seriously, you have got to be Kidding me. Do you even know how much money they pay magazines like Entrepreneur or the IFA International Franchising Association? I bet it’s in the Millions. They are at the moment lobbying the legislature so that we are not allowed to take legal action and you know that takes allot of money to do. On April 8 the IFA sent a letter to the Massachusetts senator Thomas McGee, Chairman of the legislatures joint committee on workforce development. I just hope that Senator Thomas McGee sees the Scam that these Fake cleaning franchisors are pulling and puts a stop to there FRAUD.
21. Finally I leave you with this in March of 2010 a Federal Judge said that a cleaning franchisor’s business model sounds like a description for a Modified Ponzi Scheme.
You are a bitter person, no doubt. Rant and Rave all you want, If you were as ripped off as you say, File a LAWSUIT!!!!! You can take the local “Master” to small claims court for standing, if you have a case, you’ll be able to get numerous attorney’s regardless of where you live to take a case on contingency basis.
BSCAI is an independent organization, you obviously don’t know what you are saying about an independent organization made up of no one or nothing but commercial cleaning companies and executives of chemical distritbutors, manufacturers of cleaning equipment etc…
It’s not a FRAUD!!! Perform and there is no reason, issue or legal standing that Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall or others would have.
7500 unit franchisees talked about are Jan-Pro’s numbers internal U.S. only!!!
Other than calling you “BITTER”, I never called you a derogatory name. It just shows your lack of class. It also shows, since you refuse to file a lawsuit on your own, that you lack standing in a court.
Jani-King and ServiceMaster per your statement have been ripping people off for over 40 YEARS!!!! Don’t you think after all that time, if you are correct, that someone bigger, wealthier, smarter and obviously of greater character than you would have won a major lawsuit against them!!
In regards to Felix’s comments, no, Corporate office of Jan-Pro, Jani-King, ServiceMaster or I’m sure others do not have that information, that is left up to the local Master to track, The local Master is also responsible for the FDD which is mandatory.
Question: You’ve obviously were a “z” at one time, why didn’t you bother calling all of the other “z’s” listed in the FDD before purchasing, if as FRAUDULANT as you make them out to be, why didn’t all of the other “z”s” on that list tell you BUYER BEWARE!!!!!
You are nothing but a bitter, little man, you need to either PUT UP or SHUT UP!!!!
Also,
In regards to the “size” of the various companies, you can find that information out a number of ways, easiest is through BSCAI, but you can search other sources as well including the respective companies websites and of courst MANTA.
If people are being “threatened”, then they have the right to and an obligation to file a Lawsuit, they need to report these infractions to the BBB, they need to file criminal complaints etc….
As I originally stated, you can RANT, RAVE, act like an IDIOT all you want, but you’ve done nothing, haven’t filed a lawsuit on your own, haven’t filed a complaint with BBB etc….
Go back to PUT UP or SHUT UP!!!!!!
I need some clarification on some statements from the “other Jerry” please:
This is from your previous postings:
“Jan-Pro does over 600 million dollars per year in contract services/janitorial business alone. Does not include franchise sales.”
“When you have literally 7500 owner/operators throughout a system, you are going to have some unhappy campers for sure. If you had 7500 employee’s, you would have at least 100 people that would complain and say their employer was a lier, cheat, thief etc…”
If the math is right $600,000,000 / 7500 = $80,000 gross per year per franchisee. Wow, that is good business. I am sorry but to me it does not compute, not matter what. However, I see a good sales pitch on the numbers.
At the Jan-:Pro that I was associated with, we had over 40 active owner/operators. We had 6 to 8 that were “billing’ in excess of $100,000.00 per year, our top one was “billing” in excess of $180,000.00 per year. We were relatively small.
At one meeting that I went to in Atlanta, the top “z” was doing in excess of $500,000.00 per year in business. Not too shabby.
I agree fully, that there are issues at Jan-Pro, probably at Jani-King and others, but the “system” as a whole isn’t flawed. It’s the choosing of the “masters” and the fact that the “corporate” entity doesn’t do a proper job of screening those “masters” and “oversite” of them.
Can’t simply “throw out the baby, with the bath water”. Jerry V. wants to make corporate pay for issues possibly related to the “master”. Again, Jerry V. was obviously a former “z” and he has a grudge, might be “right” to be angry, as possibly some of the others, but as a whole, Jan-Pro isn’t a terrible company, needs better management, probably, Rich Kissane wouldn’t have been my choice for CEO, he failed miserably as CEO of OneSource, he was “handed his hat” and basically “thrown out” by Cheryl Jones and Tom Persinger. If you want to “go after” something or someone, do better research.
To all of those seeing stars in your eyes with lawsuits, the coverall case went to trial in Massachusetts. The judge threw out the class action portion of the suit and limited the lawsuit to one franchisee. The franchisee lost to coverall and is required to pay court costs of more than $200,000. I am a former franchisee who has dropped out of Jan Pro and have cooled my jets about filing a lawsuit after reading this.
To Joe who I will refer to as “joe the joker”
Do not believe what joe the joker is saying he is just someone from corporate trying to scare people. These cleaning franchisors have a history of trying to intimidate us. The trial is not over and the Fight for Justice will never end until we all get Justice. How can you tell that this guy is someone from corporate? Very easily by the words he uses like how he said “seing stars in your eyes” or that he has “cooled his jets down abvout filling a lawsuit” Did joe the joker from corporate forget to read the following.
The Judge on the coverall trial already said that the way coverall operates is like a modified PONZI SCHEME and gave the coverall plaintifs Summary Judgement. He already rulled that they are Misclafified. I read his 11 page Rulling were he states that this is a modified Ponzi Scheme and rulled that the coverall people are misclasified and that they are employees. Infact coverall is now trying to use a diferent system and I read that they are going to give everyone TIME CARDS. coverall has also stoped selling there fake franchises in Massachusetts. Ask any Lawyer and they will tell you that all of these cleaning franchisors are missclasifying there people. The number one thing I would like to see is these people go to jail and stop them from Ripping-off so many people.
Don’t let the Trolls from the cleaning franchisors fool you, lie to you, scare you or try and intimidate you. We will keep on Fiting until we get Justice.
Well, Jerry V. or “1st amendment”, seems like you really are a little “lazy”. You talk about everyone elses “lawsuit”, where’s yours? Print the “case number” so we can verify.
Said it before, say it again, PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!!
You call everyone else, chump, joker etc….. but the proof’s in the pudding, coverall is not changing their model at least not in Indiana.
This is in response to “ J from Indiana ”
I’m going to respond to your three other post one at a time. I will start by responding to the first one you posted on June 7 at 5:14 pm. Who ever you are all I know is that we can’t trust you or believe anything that you say. One day you said that you were an insider and then you said that you owned your own business and then you said that you used to also be an operations manager. Then you tell us that jan-pro has 7500 fake franchisees but we hear something else from jan-pro. Then you tell us that you don’t know how many people have left jan-pro and that you have no way of knowing that but you say that you are an INSIDER.. What are you trying to hide? It’s funny how Mc Donald’s knows how many hamburgers and fries they have sold but you a jan-pro INSIDER doesn’t know how many people have left jan-pro or how many fake franchisees they have. Then you tell us that you go to jan-pro conventions and that you know Richard kissane. More and more you sound like one of those fast talking fast selling sales managers at jan-pro. It seems to me like you are someone’s monkey throwing mud pies at the wall to see what sticks.
You say that I’m bitter and a ranter. Are you then saying that when people get ripped-off they should just keep quiet, shut up and take it and say nothing? I bet that jan-pro would love that. I bet that if you got ripped-off, If your Mom got ripped-off or if they took food from your kids mouth then I bet you to would be mad. Then I bet you wouldn’t call it being bitter.
If you talk to independent business owners and I’m referring to your Mom and Pop cleaners they will all tell you that you can’t trust the bscai. They have executives and manufacturers. Just like the IFA they are not independent they have lobbyist in Washington trying to change the laws so that they can hurt us the average person trying to make a living by working hard.
Yes it is a Fraud! We will prove it soon when we go to trial. It’s also Deceit, Theft and Racketeering. I feel that they are in violation of the Rico and Racketeering acts. We need to get this information to an Attorney general.
So you are saying that if someone doesn’t contact every single person that works for jan-pro then it’s ok for jan-pro to rip them off ??? Are you then saying that you as a jan-pro insider, or operations manager that you are ok with Ripping people off. How can you sleep at night? However I find it interesting how a reporter for Franchisetimes.com that wrote a recent article on all the lawsuits against cleaning franchisors called many people and they were either not there, had disconnected numbers, or didn’t want to talk. How strange don’t you think. How many people that left jan-pro 5 years ago are they still counting as active? Better yet how many people disconnected or changed there phone numbers because jan-pro kept harassing them and intimidating them ?
Jerry V. Still acting like a “bitter baby”. You failed to answer any of my statements in regards to “your standing” , where’s yuor “case number”, where’s your “skin in the game”, You act like there’s no responsibility at all on the “z’s” part in all of this.
So, let’s end this “discussion”. Until YOU PROVE, that you’ve got a real stake and aren’t some “tag along”, you have little to no value in the discussion.
Hey First amendment. Please don’t misrepresent what went on. The Judge can say anything he wants, but in the end coverall won the suit and the plantiffs have to pay court costs. There is no money in lawsuits these days. The only people who get rich are the lawyers.
I happen to believe that you are a lawyer trying to stir things up to get more people willing to risk their money to try a lawsuit. I am not willing to do that.
In response to someone who calls himself ( Joe )
Now it’s very obvious that you are someone from corporate. You claim to have been an x franchisee but it’s very clear that you are only someone from corporate trying to Intimidate us, scare us and lie to us. I have seen jan-pro use these tactics in the past against me and other people. I have seen jan-pro intimidate and try and scare people. To everyone out there reading this Don’t fall for it and don’t let them intimidate you. To this person who calls himself ( joe ) I will not be intimidated any more. By the things you posted we can tell that you are only a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
The lawsuit is not over. Infact the Plaintiff’s Won Summary Judgment. Lawsuits take a long time. It’s a long procedure. We are only at the beginning. It’s funny how you say that what the Judge said doesn’t mater. I wonder then why the IFA immediately sent letters and lobbyist to senator Thomas McGee In Massachusetts. I wonder then why the IFA is desperately trying to change the Laws. If what the Judge said wouldn’t mater then why would so many franchisor law firms be scrambling like mice and having meetings and webinars all over the country. Infact in a recent webinar that was held by a Franchisor Law firm they said that the way these cleaning franchisors are doing business they are Misclassifying there franchisees and that there fake franchisees are really employees and that the only people in real trouble are the Cleaning Franchisors. The Judge gave the plaintiffs Summary Judgment and he wrote an 11 page ruling were he stated that this was a Ponzi Scheme and ruled the plaintiff’s misclassified. This was based on the LAW and under the ABC 3 Test Prongs.
Meanwhile we need everyone to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and District Attorneys and Attorney General.
http://www.ftc.gov If we all file complaint the FTC will take Action !
The legal actions are not over. People are tired of getting Ripped-off. People work very hard for there money and we are not going to allow these companies to rip-us off any longer. More people are coming forward. There is more Lawsuits being filled and I have heard that the Attorney General will be looking into this dirty mess.
This is in response to ( The Fake J from Indiana )
I have responded to all of your questions. However one day you ran a mock like a crazy monkey that was high on crack cocaine and you posted 3 Times. I’m still responding to some of your last post but don’t worry about your last question about me taking Legal Action. I’m going to respond to that question and you will end up crying like a monkey with no Banana’s.
However I noticed that all you have done is run from ALL of the questions that I have asked. Some you completely ignored and others you say that you don’t have an answer to even though you say that you are a Jan-pro INSIDER.
This is in response to the ( Fake J from Indiana )
This is in response to the second post you posted on June 7 at 5:20 pm
Yes some people are taking legal action. According to the 2008 FDD Coverall has settled 26 cases and Janiking has also settled 52 pieces of litigation. I myself know of 7 cases against jan-pro.
Maryland’s assistant Attorney General Dale Cantone warns that the Fdds are so COMPLEX that they are very, very risky.
The http://www.Ftc.Gov Federal Trade Commission distributes a 19 page booklet of CAUTION for people considering buying a commercial cleaning franchise.
Anybody considering buying a Fake cleaning franchise please don’t do it. You will loose your money and have many headaches if you do.
Yes unfortunately people do get intimidated. I witnessed this myself and was horrified by it. I specially have seen them take advantage of single Moms, immigrants and Vets.
To the ( Fake J from Indiana) You have called me a ranter and an idiot and a cry baby. Would you also say that to the Vets who have been ripped-off by jan-pro, to the families who have been destroyed and lost it all or to Jagoda Walczak a single Mom Polish immigrant who was ripped-off after she borrowed money to buy a fake cleaning franchise.
Please read this article that came out on the New York Times. You can find it by searching it on the internet or by going to The New York times website. It’s about how a single Mom and how she got ripped-off.
In Search of work, but at what cost?
By David Segal
December 27, 2009
Yes people who have been intimidated need to file complaints with the District Attorney and with the Federal Trade commission. If you go to the BBB they will not be able to help you because if a complaint is filled and these companies don’t respond then nothing happens.
Please file complaints with the District Attorney or Federal Trade Commission. http://www.Ftc.Gov
You can also join a National Class Action lawsuit as a class member.
Noticed you forgot to mention that Coverall was “removed” from the independent contractor issue. Which was the “prong” that Judge Young used in his original “memo”. What was stated in the Jury decision handed down on June 2, 2010 was the fact there was no proof by/from the plantiffs that “harm” had been proven.
In other words, they couldn’t prove that they had been harmed financially by this “relationship”. They had no proof that they weren’t being paid properly, that they weren’t making equal too or less than minimum wage.
Again, if you’re going to tell the “whole story” than be honest, you’ve got to make sure that you have “standing” and you don’t. You call others “jokers” or that we are “fake”. It will be real interesting to see where this all settles and how “whiners” such as you are dealt with. Were some people “harmed” , was there some “misrepresentation” by overzealous salespersons, Maybe, but that’s a fact in all business opportunities. Key is, you have to show patterns, consistancy in the misleadings that you are stating. Again, PUT UP or SHUT UP!!!!! still no case number from you, no “location” of where you’re at, no “specific description”, could Joe be right, are you a “poor mouth attorney” trying to “rip people off”.
This is in response to ( The Fake j from Indiana )
This is a response to the Third post you posted on June 7 at 9:35 pm.
You say that at the jan-pro that you were working from that you had a few people grossing over 100,000 ?
You say that another person was grossing 180,000 ??
You say that another person was grossing 500,000 ???
I say prove it or stick a banana in your mouth. What will you say next ?
You say that you are an INSIDER !
However when you were asked by another person in this blog to show how many people have left jan-pro all you did was hide behind a trashcan and say that you didn’t know. You say that you don’t know how many people have left jan-pro but Mc Donald’s knows how many Hamburgers and Milk shakes they have sold.
When I went to jan-pro they told me that I would make tons of money and that I would be able to grow my business, then when they took my money they wouldn‘t even say hi to me anymore. Then I found out that what they had promised they were all Lies, Dception and Fraud.
The whole company is bad, the whole tree is bad. When I talked to the master franchisor he gave me the finger and when I called corporate they said that they could not help me.
I have received calls from people in 25 different states and people from different parts in Canada. People have been ripped-off and they go online and find these blogs and they find my phone number and e-mail adress and when I talk to them they tell me that they know many people who are getting ripped-off by jan-pro. Not just a few but a lot of people!
You say that you know people who made money with jan-pro. Well I know over 10 that invested from $20,000.00 Thousand Dollars to $40,000.00 Thousand Dollars and now they have nothing, Zero, Zip, Nada !
You say you know people who made money with jan-pro well I Personally know close to 100 who got Ripped-off and now have nothing.
In response to the ( Fake j from Indiana )
Why do you keep trying to be Deceitful. The Plaintiffs in the coverall case have won a partial summary judgment! It was declared by the Judge. The Judge said that Coverall is a modified Ponzi Scheme and he declared the plaintiff’s misclassified and declared them employees under the LAW. Which means that they will be able to recover there loses. There will also be more Lawsuits filled against coverall. If what the Judge said when he called them a Ponzi Scheme wouldn’t mater then the IFA wouldn’t be sending lobbyist and letters to the Senator in Massachusetts. Why is it that Franchisor Lawyers are having all kinds of meetings and telling everybody that cleaning franchisors are in violation of the LAW. These are Lawyers that are on the Franchisors side and even they are telling everybody that the cleaning franchisors are breaking the Law and in lots of trouble. As I write this I keep getting more calls from more people who keep getting ripped-off by jan-pro. More victims. What will happen, more legal action will take place, more lawsuits. Bernard Madoff got away with ripping off the rich and powerful for many, many years. It might take us a long time to get justice because we are not rich or powerful but we will keep on fitting until we get justice so that our children can live in a righteous and just country .
When we go to trial for the jan-pro case we will overwhelmingly prove our case. We have so many witnesses and so much evidence that it will Singe the hair off a wolf’s Rear. The vets that were ripped-off, the single moms that were ripped-off, the immigrants who were intimidated, the families who lost it all. I could show you 100 examples with overwhelming proof.
Again you come in here and you try and change things around. Again the Deception and the lies by someone who we don’t know. You say that you are an insider. What does that mean ? We can’t believe anything that you say because we have been lied to by jan-pro so many times. Are you an executive at jan-pro trying to take Richard kissane’s job? Are you an operations manager at jan-pro or a master franchisor who has been ripping people off.
Talk about someone long winded, you keep “hashing’ over the same stuff.
Fact: DLA Piper: Jury verdict May 26th, in Awuah vs. Coverall North America, court dismissed all claims relating to the plantiffs assertions that they should have been classified as employees rather than independent contractors.
Fact: Jury agreed and decided the plantiffs had not been deceived or harmed by Coverall.
Per http://www.allbusiness.com
Its funny how you always say you were “lied too”, “deceived” , “cheated” etc… yet in the most liberal state, with the most liberal rules, Lowest most “threshold of proof” a jury of “peers” found Coverall not guilty!!!!
Here we go again you are really confused. Your information is Wrong. I have the Judges 11 page ruling were he gives the Plaintiffs partial Summary Judgment and classifies them as employees. You are so confused. There is also more lawsuits being filled.
The following is another example of what happened in the Massachusetts supreme court when they found Rhina Alvarenga to be misclassified when she worked for Coverall. She recovered her loses and received unemployment compensation.
Independent Contractor Is Narrowly Defined
The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court (SJC) recently ruled that a “franchisee” was an employee, and not an independent contractor, under Massachusetts’s unemployment compensation statute, M.G.L. c. 151A. Accordingly, the franchisor was required to pay contributions to the unemployment fund based on the franchisee’s reported earnings, and the franchisee was entitled to unemployment benefits. In Coverall North America, Inc. v. Commissioner of the Division of Unemployment Assistance, the SJC relied exclusively on the test set forth in Chapter 151A to explore the employment relationship and determine independent contractor status, without regard to the independent contractor statute amended in 2004.
Rhina Alvarenga purchased a janitorial franchise from Coverall North America. As part of its franchise agreement, Coverall maintains significant control over franchisees by providing training, field supervision, a customer base, and daily customer cleaning plans. Coverall bills customers directly and pays franchisees monthly fees for the services they perform. While Coverall encourages franchisees to expand their customer base, all customers must negotiate contracts with Coverall. Within months of purchasing her franchise, Alvarenga told Coverall that she could not accomplish its daily cleaning plan within the twenty-five hour weekly schedule for which she was paid. Coverall nevertheless demanded that she complete all tasks and did not compensate her for the longer hours necessary to complete her work. When Alvarenga eventually refused to continue performing additional unpaid work, Coverall “discharged” her.
The Division of Unemployment Assistance (DUA) initially rejected Alvarenga’s claim for unemployment benefits after determining that the services she performed did not constitute “employment” but rather indicated that she was an independent contractor. At hearing, however, a Review Examiner found that Coverall failed to establish under Chapter 151A that Alvarenga was an independent contractor. Both the DUA’s Board of Review and a Massachusetts District Court affirmed this decision.
On appeal, the SJC analyzed the three-part test (known as the “A-B-C” test) in Chapter 151A, § 2, and found that Alvarenga was not an independent contractor. Under this conjunctive test, Coverall bore the burden of proving that the services Alvarenga performed were (a) free from Coverall’s control and direction; (b) outside the usual course of Coverall’s business; and (c) part of a business independently established by Alvarenga. The SJC focused on the third prong. Coverall argued that the Court should apply a “capability test” to determine whether Alvarenga could have been entrepreneurial and could expand her business. The Court, however, held that to determine whether Alvarenga was independent, it would look at both her ability to develop expanded business as well as the actual nature of her existing business. The SJC concluded that Alvarenga was compelled to rely on Coverall because it negotiated all contracts and pricing, billed the clients, and controlled daily tasks – and would do so even for customers she developed independently.
You have asked me what I’m doing about the damage that jan-pro has caused me. For your information I’m taking legal action against jan-pro. I’m a lead plaintif in a National Class Action Lawsuit. You have asked me to see the lawsuit paperwork. We are not allowed to post our e-mails here so go to complaontsboard.com and on the first complaint click on it and there you will find my e-mail adress. E-mail me and I will send you a copy. I will be waiting for your e-mail.
Jerry V (and other parties interested in the Coverall lawsuit). Here is part of an article regarding the FINAL JURY VERDICT in the case, as well as a link to the article on Allbusiness.com (a D&B Company).
————————–
DLA Piper announced today that the firm successfully represented Coverall North America, Inc., a commercial-cleaning franchisor, in a three-week trial in Massachusetts federal district court.
The May 26 jury verdict is a significant victory for Coverall, which has been embroiled in a dispute
In Awuah v. Coverall North America, Inc., four Coverall franchisees brought claims alleging that Coverall, the franchisor, misclassified its franchisees as independent contractors and committed unfair or deceptive trade practices. The plaintiffs argued that they should instead be considered employees of Coverall, and were entitled to minimum wage, overtime pay and other benefits of employment.
At the beginning of trial, the court dismissed all claims relating to the plaintiffs’ assertion that they should have been classified as employees rather than independent contractors. The dismissal was based on the plaintiffs’ failure to present any proof that they had suffered any damages as a result of this alleged misclassification. The rest of the plaintiffs’ claims, which included counts of fraud, negligent misrepresentation, breach of contract, violation of state deceptive practices acts and related claims, proceeded to trial.
DLA Piper, on behalf of Coverall, argued that Coverall had complied with all of its obligations and, moreover, that it had not concealed any information from the plaintiffs. The jury agreed and decided that the plaintiffs had not been deceived or harmed by Coverall.
—————————–
Here is the link to the article: http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/trial-procedure-jury-trial/14566089-1.html
Bottom line – all claims were resolved in favor of Coverall. Also, no damages were awarded for the employee/sub-contractor misclassification.
Just want to make sure everyone is using up-to-date facts.
Can you answer some of these questions ?
1. What is your name ?
2. What jan-pro do you work for?
3. What is your position at jan-pro ?
4. Can you tell us why you don’t like Richard kissane ?
5. You said that Richard’s position was handed to him, how did this come about ?
6. Do you have friends or relatives who bought a franchise ?
7. Do you have a franchise ?
8. How many people have left jan-pro ?
9. What did they talk about at the conventions. ?
10. Do you know jacques lapointe ?
11. Do you know ray lapointe ?
12. What is the deal with Webster capital buying jan-pro ?
I believe that decision will be appealed. I can find no provision that requires an “injury”
to determination of classification status.
1. Jerry
2. Indiana
3. Not employed there currently
4. He’s a lacky, he was at OneSource, he is at Jan-Pro. He’s a lightweight, doesn’t love the business, just collects a check.
5. He was handpicked by Jacques Lapointe,
6. No
7.No
8. A few, during my time there, less than 1/2 dozen
9. Numerous things, to much to mention in a reasonable period of time
10. Know of him, not personally
11. No.
12. Don’t know anything about that.
Now I’ve answered all your questions, opinion of you hasn’t changed. You and others want to blame everything on the company, don’t want to “share” in the responsibility, you want to “destroy”, I would want to “rehab”, you want “vengence” , what I would propose would be “fairness”, you want something for “nothing” on your end, I would propose equal blame and fairness.
John,
Yes it can be. But it costs money. It wouldn’t be money well spent, someone needs to think about how much money lawyers are getting and making off this “turmoil”.
I’m not saying the legal system is at fault, I’m saying that those monies need to be put into the mix as well.
If you can’t resolve it face to face with the “master owner”, then go to mediation/arbitration, if still feeling “cheated’, then get proper “standing” and by all means pursue a legal remedy. When you do nothing but threaten, get “crazy”, of course they are going to “shun you”, when you act proper, when you go through the “process” as outlined in the FDD then you’ve got “standing”
Think about that, it’s just business, it’s not a life
The Lawsuit against coverall isn’t over yet. There is a long battle ahead. I will later on put the judges decision were he stated that the way Coverall does business is like a Modified Ponzi Scheme and declared the plaintifs misclasified employees. Remember Rhina Alvarenga Won Misclasification and recouped her loses.
1. To the guy from (Indiana who calls himself Jerry) I asked for your full name ???
Its funny how you try and change things around and try and make us the Bad people when we are the ones who got Ripped-off. If you are so woried about Attorneys making money then jan-pro should have never ripped-off so many people. I don’t see how you people can sleep well at night ripping off so many people. I have had ladies cry on the phone because jan-pro ripped-off there savings.
We did go to the master franchisor and then to corporate but they didn’t care. They just took our money and Ripped-us off. We are seeking a legal remedy we are taking jan-pro to court in a national class action lawsuit.
You said that we do nothing and get crazy. See this is what jan-pro does they make things up. We got ripped-off and we will prove it when we go to court.
Why do you say things like “when you do nothing and threaten and get crazy” see thats the kind of Lies and things that you and jan-pro make-up.
The FDD is a scam like I have told you before the Assiatant Attorney General in Maryland warns people about the FDD and says it’s Very Very Risky and very hard to understand. So you see they have to make a tricky and hard to understand FDD so that they can Rip you off.
When I went to my deposition in Boston even jan-pros Attorneys said and agreed that the FDD is very hard to understand. Even jan-pros Attorneys admit it is Very hard to understand. They even said that you need an attorney to read it. Why does jan-pro do that so that they can rob and steal.
Ripping off families, Ripping off single Moms, Ripping of Veterans is not right its a crime that needs to be prosecuted.
Bernie madof went to jail for doing these scams and its time we all contact the FTC.Gov and our Attorney General so that they can take action. Meanwhile I’m taking legal action.
http://www.Ftc.Gov
Regardless of wether this is legally a rip off and franchisees are legally employees DO NOT invest in a cleaning franchise. You will be treated like an employee and it is a terrible business investment. Flat out terrible. Don’t waste your money or credit. I know from experience.
1. What is your full name ?
2. Do you still work for a cleaning franchisor ? If so who ?
3. Ok so you admit that Richard kissane is just collecting checks and doesn’t care about us. Remember I told you that many of us have called corporate and they wouldn’t help me or anyone else that called. They gave us no choice than to take legal action. Remember the ladies that came out on the Television special were jan-pro was exposed. Remember that jan-pro said that they would take care of the problem. Well they still haven’t and it’s been a few months. Nobody likes to get bounced checks and then when they complained they got kicked out of the office. Thats the kind of crap jan-pro does.
4. What exactly was your position at jan-pro ?
5. Have you e-mailed me so that I can send you a copy of the Lawsuit that we have against jan-pro ? You can find my e-mail address at complaintsboard.com on the first post you see there.
To JD and Jerry from Indiana can you tell us your complete names and how you are or were related to jan-pro or coverall or any other franchisor ???
The postings are getting too personal. I am a current franchisee with Jan-pro. I am lucky enough to live and do business in one of top cities in the USA. I had been in business for myself for the last 15 years in the service industry before investing in Jan-Pro. I thought that buying a franchise with Jan-Pro + all of those years of experience in the service industry it will move me to the next level in business since I was backed by a “big name”. After more than four years with the franchise, I am worse than I started. I am providing/provided excellent service considering the pricing of the accounts, no complains from any of the costumers (note that I am not saying my costumers because that is an illusion). If had to rely on Jan-Pro franchise to provide for my family, we will be living on the street right now. I said it before on this website, this business model had been taken to an unethical level as well as borderline illegal (lawyers can do wonders on paper that can take years of litigation to unravel). As far as my experience with the Master Franchisor, there are not in the cleaning business they are in the selling business. Sell, sell and sell regardless. Just for the record my very first account was underbid by a whopping 52% (it is documented $1700 for $900 also, it was an account serviced by another franchisee). After that account, the number of underbid accounts offered to me came one after another. I had/have some account that they were/are profitable, however not enough to be called a business or justify the franchise fee. If the corporation knows all of this abuses are taking place regardless of location and there are not doing anything about it, there are guilty as well. If this lawsuit can stop this unethical borderline illegal practices, I believe that will benefit everybody from the top of the Corporation, Master Franchisor, Franchisee and Jan-Pro’s Costumers as well. Is a fact, Jan-Pro gave me lemons and I made the best lemonade I could during the last four years.
There you go, it’s not a perfect system, but in order to make it better, do it the right way.
1. Demand for a change in the way Master Franchisors are chosen. Can’t just be for the money. They must be of good moral character, they must understand that it’s peoples livlihoods that they have a responsibility for.
2. Corporate Jan-Pro is being currently run by a bunch of “has beens” most of them were “kicked out” of companies such as Jani-King, OneSource and others. Demand for their removal, when removed, put in people of good character, run a company the way it should be run, have it be run by people that “love and understand” the janitorial/commercial cleaning business.
3. Now, comes the hard part for “1st amendment” and others like him. Don’t blame someone else for your “misgivings”. You had a responsibility to read the FDD, if you didn’t understand it, take it to an attorney, if they don’t understand it, DONT INVEST!!!!!. In the FDD all of the current and past franchisees are to be listed with active numbers, you don’t reach a vast majority of those listed, ask for an updated version, they don’t have it DONT INVEST!!!!! From the date/day of your presentation, you had 10 to 14 days of due deligence on your part, take advantage of that time, ask questions, investigate, old saying “TRUST but VERIFY”.
Nothing wrong with the business model, are you going to GET RICH cleaning toilets for a living, no, but you can make a great living, buy a home, buy a car, put your children through college etc….
Quit playing into the hands of attorneys, at the end of the day, even if you win, you wont get anything in return.
You want to bet that if you “stopped your nonsense” and went directly to corporate and worked on a reasonable deal that they wouldn’t settle, yes they would. Bet your bottom dollar they would.
You want to do something even greater, Put together enough people and buy the company, run it the way I’ve described and you’ll have the most profitable, well run, well positioned company in the industry.
But all “1st amendment” wants to do is complain, all he wants is “blood”, he doesn’t want “justice” all he wants is vengence.
In responce to to ( J from Indiana )
Can you respond to the 5 questions I posted earlier.
You asked why we didn’t demand change. I called Corporate and so did many other people. Corporate would not Help US!!! I have told you this before Again and Again, I will say it again, We CALLED, We Contacted Corporate and Corporate would NOT HELP US. How many times do I have to repeat it. Many of us Called corporate. Many sent letters and called and they never Helped us. We were forced to take legal action.
We cannot remove corporate when they have all the power. The master franchisors wont talk to us because they rip-us off and corporate does the same thing. There all in on the Racket. Its not a democracy they rule like Dictators. So your statement about removing corporate makes no since. You know very well that a person can’t do anything about removing them and you know very well that jan-pro controls everything. Jan-pro at anytime can take all of your accounts away for any reason that they make up and I have seen them try and do it to people. We don’t own anything we have no control, no say so and no rights. We are treated worse than an employee in a third world country.
You are trying to say that since the FDD is Missrepresentfull, Deceitful and Fraudulent that it’s ok for them to rip us off ??? So if they would have put on that contract some tricky jargon words and it would make us there slaves would you be ok with it? Why do they have to be Deceitful, Fraudulent and Tricky on there FDD’s. Ask yourself why do they do that??? Like I said even jan-pros attorneys said that it’s hard to understand. Is this the kind of country that we are turning into a country with corporations who have to find ways to rip-off people. For our children’s sake I hope not.
There business model is wrong because they steal accounts away for no reason that is THEFT!
There business model is wrong because they underbid accounts so low that people make less than minimum wage that is FRAUD!
There business model is unethically and morally wrong because they will fine you and steal money from your check for not returning a call in 2 hours or for not wearing there blue shirt!
You said that we are playing into the hands of attorneys. It’s your statements like that, that make me wonder why you are so desperately defending jan-pro. Its only obvious that you are with corporate or an attorney for them. I bet that if you were being ripped-off you to would be taking legal action. I bet that if your Mom got ripped of that you would be Mad and wanting to take legal action.
Can you answer the following question:
What would you say to some guy who is in the Military risking his life everyday so that we can have freedom meanwhile his Mom is getting ripped-off by jan-pro every month?
Your last statement about me wanting blood is just another attempt of trying to make the victim into the bad person. It’s an old trick. When I bought this fake franchise I busted my butt trying to make it work but it’s very hard when they bid the jobs so low that I was making less than minimum wage. I tried talking to the manager to the master franchisor and corporate. I tried working things out and they just didn’t care. They forced us to take legal action.
We seek justice. We don’t want jan-pro to hurt anymore people. Maybe you need to talk to the near 100 people that I have talked to. Maybe if you talked to the Vets and single Moms and the Families that jan-pro has hurt maybe you would change your mind.
One of the things we seek is on page 14 of our complaint
5. Declaratory and injunctive relief, requiring jan-pro to cease its illegal practices.
I had decided not to make any more posts to this blog, mainly because of the rants and raves of the obviously unresourceful and unmotivated ’1st Amendment’ and the like, but since my inbox is now overflowing with comments, I have no other choice but to weigh in on what many have recently said.
Honestly, Jan-Pro is not the best money that anyone here will spend in his or her lifetime. The cleaning franchise model needs to be re-evaluated as not to be so vulturous in nature. Many of the pundits of Jan-Pro need to realize that even if you took away all of the fees and other nonsense that give the business a bad rep, you would still be operating in a system of rules and processes that will never alllow for any of us to be as successful as the system that we sustain. This is the nature of a FRANCHISED BUSINESS! I read all of the wimpy complaints here and many wont hold any water to the unlimited resources of a company like Jan-Pro. They will outspend you at every turn to defend againt a lawsuit as frivilous as yours.
You claim THEFT but they cant steal what they already own!!
You claim FRAUD but I can guarantee that your Master Owner has done almost everything in accordance with the FDD you signed to become a franchisee! It was probably you who didnt understand what you were getting into. I dont THINK the smart ones go looking for any trouble.
The ones that bitch about there accounts being taken away probably had something to do with it being taken away to begin with.
The very small percentage of people that have rock solid claims against the company are the ones that you will never hear of. These are the ones that are paid to stay off blogs and out of court. Lapointe will cut his own nuts off before any of those people see the light of day.
So where does that leave us. Back where we started. You and the 10 people of your class dont have anthing damaging enough to fundamentally change the way these people do business. Thats just the hardcore reality of things. Im surely pissed about some things that Jan-Pro has done to me, but I realize that change starts with me. I wouldnt invest any more money in Jan-Pro or reccomend anyone else to do so but I also wouldnt foolishly waste time or money on a lawsuit that has little to no merit, just the angry feelings of 1st amendment.
I know 1st amendment is going to accuse me of being from corporate or some other figment of his childish imagination, but I am a true blood franchisee just like you!
I work my ass off and I pay my 20% faithfully every month. So I know what this is and what it aint.
I didnt have a problem reading and understanding my FDD. I actually had took the numbers from the FDD and lined them up with my franchise package, so I knew how much I’d be taking in at any point. I knew the effects of S&M fees on my bottom line. I knew all the angles BEFORE I signed the paper.
So whats my gripe you might ask?
Its simple. I have lost total faith and confidence in Jan-Pro because of SOME of the allegations that have been made here and some things I have experienced with the company since becoming a franchisee.
I dont want to be part of an organization that engages in any type of deceptive practices that harms directly or indirectly members of the organization. I expected Jan-Pro to be honest and fair in its dealings with me and that hasnt been the case always.
I DONT Call them crooks or rip-offs, just people that can always be taken at their word. But then again…Who can really be trusted??
Still no responsibility for issues on your end:
Common Ground:
1. Some Master Franchisors are really the “root of the problem”: Everything that you are describing in your “frustration” is directly attributed to the Master Franchisor. It’s that level that is truly at fault:
a) The Master has control of the “presentation” to you. Though the FDD Legal language is approved by Jan-Pro International, the actual Master or his rep. is actually making the presentation to you not a rep of Jan-Pro International
b) The Master or his rep. actually is the one that goes out and “bids” the jobs. Not Jan-Pro International, though they do have “bidding guidelines” in regards to production rates, amount of time to clean fixtures, etc… They don’t actually bid, nor do they approve the bids that the Master or his rep. present to the customer.
c) The Master or his rep. actually is the one that goes out and inspects the facilities for cleanliness level, meets with the customer, makes decisions to “transfer” an account etc… In some cases, it’s actually the customer requesting the transfer which is their right based upon how the contract is written.
d) The Master or his rep. actually has the obligation to “fine” you or not. Sometimes a fine is warranted, sometime it’s not, the Master or his rep. actually have the ability to “waive the fine” at anytime.
The above listed “issues” are all in the hands of the Master and/or his representatives. Your wanting corporate to “pay” for something done on the “local level”. Now where corporate does have a “say” in this, they are the ones choosing the Masters. They have a choice in taking or not taking a particular persons money. In fairness, alot of the “problem Masters” were actually selected by Jacque Lapointe and not Rich Kissane.
Now let’s talk about the above listed points:
1. You had a choice after leaving the presentation to select or not select Jan-Pro to work with, you could have gone to Jani-King, Bonus, Coverall, Cleannet or others. With that choice, you had a responsibility to “verify” what they were saying, you had a minimum of 10 to 14 days to chose or not chose Jan-Pro. Remember at the end of the day, no one was twisting your arm nor had a “gun” to your head to give them your money.
2. Anytime an account was offered to you, you had a right and really an obligation to walk thru the account first, meet the contact person, tour the building and then accept/decline based upon that and the actual written contract/specifications. With that “right” comes some issues, if you turned down the account, Jan-Pro has a right to “stop the clock” on the amount offered to you via your package. Now that may seem unfair to you, but let’s think about this for a minute, perfectly good and viable accounts are offered and turned down by a particular owner/operator everyday, maybe a “full count” is a little unfair, a proposal that I would “offer” would be the first turn down, nothing counted against franchisee/the clock, 2nd turn down 50% is counted “against the franchisee/clock” and the 3rd turn down and forward is counted 100%.
3. In regards to the fines, I would like to see the following changes made;
a) severe penalties such as no call, no show is 50 to 100.00 second occurance is an automatic pulling of the account
b) cleaning issues, should be verbally spoken 1st time, written warning 2nd time, fined 3rd time and account pulled (if requested by customer or operations manager) on the fourth time.
4. in regards to the “monitoring” of the masters and their employees, a greater job must be done by Jan-Pro International, I’ve explained what should be done up front if given the opportunity. Now lets deal with today’s/already in place masters:
a) Full corporate review of all Masters that are “envolved” or “caused” the lawsuits in the first place. If found at fault of running their operations in the “inappropriate” or corporate way, those masters are fined heavily, given 30 days to make changes, if those changes aren’t made, begin legal remedy and suspend those masters from selling any furhter unit franchises, gaining any more accounts until all points are found in compliance.
b) If “a” doesn’t happen in a reasonable period of time not to exceed 90 days, corporate comes in and runs the masters operation until such time as an agreement to sell or transer has been worked out as acceptable to all parties.
In regards to your “attempts” to satisfy your situation with corporate.
1. You had an obligation by signing a contract to abide by the rules of that contract which stipulates arbitration/mediation. You and the others probably didn’t do that.
2. You have an opportunity now, that if you can “unite” all the one’s that you are talking about that have been “wronged” to change the industry for everyone including yourselves. Have one voice, make it one of reason, and suggest the above listed changes, be open minded, give them time to implement the above and then go back and restart your opportunity or settle on a figure that is fair and just for all parties.
Don’t believe me, get at least 50 of the 100 or so people that you “represent” to unite under or have one attorney or representitive meet with Jan-Pro International and I’m sure they will take that meeting.
But understand, at best, blame for what has happened is % split between you, the master and jan-pro international.
A believer:
You are an honest broker for sure. I too agree with your statement that a corporate entity must share in the responsibility for the issues at hand. You must look at the “numbers”. When so many people are upset, there is something wrong. What you do about that “wrongness” is what will set you apart in the business world.
Right now, Coverall, Jan-Pro, Jani-King and others are simply hiding behind their attorneys. But who can blame them to a degree. Part of the problem we live in a litigation based society. But at some point in time, someone is going to do the right thing and take a leap of faith.
I truly believe that if done correctly, the owner/operator system is a better cleaning program and end use product vs. traditional cleaning companies. I’ve been on both sides for nearly 25 years, I think I know what I’m saying.
1st amendment as stated before is out for blood, vengence and doesn’t have an ounce of “mediation” in his system. He wants to blame everyone else but himself for his situation, he forgets that these “masters” are individual corporations, his attorneys have filled him with these dillusions of being a “whistle blower” and that they’ll make a movie about him one day. Here’s a reality check, even if you win, you’ll loose. Only one’s that’s going to get paid are the attorneys representing you and your “posse”. The only one’s that are going to be “famous” are the attorneys. Only ones that will be making any money are the attorneys.
You don’t want change, you want to be famous, you don’t want to “clean up” the mess, you want fame.
1st amendment believes in that for him and for the people that share his views, not for everyone.
Lets address the “bidding issue”. You say that Jan-Pro and others, bid too low in order to do the job correctly. Well here’s how “traditional companies” bid and in comparision here’s how most Jan-Pro, Coverall’s and Jani-Kings bid:
Example Building: 20,000 sq. foot, medium density 80 to 90% carpet, rest some sort of “tile” could be vct, ceramic, etc… 5 night per week service.
Traditional company: avg. rate of production: 4,000 sq. foot per man hour or 5 hours per night cleaning.
Keeping things simple: Let’s say they like to pay their employees $8.00 per hour
So now you’ve got an 8.00 per hour and you’ve got to add the following % to that:
22% for FICA, FUTA, SUTA, Workmans Comp. and Liability Insurance
12% General Overhead: Such as office, office staff, light bill for office etc…
10% Chemicals and Equipment: Standard equipment only, if you get autoscrubber or something else “job specific” you need to add on to this figure
10% Overhead and Profit
Now your $8.00 per hour person is at roughly $12.50 per hour. Based upon the time, you now have a bidding schedule at 5 hours per night, X 12.50 per hourX 21.5 nights in a month = $1343.75 per month. Most will round up to at least $1350.00 per month some to even $1400.00
Now lets do it how most “owner/operator companies” do it: Same building, same production rate, same number of days per week.
$15.00 per hour (standard for Jan-Pro, Jani-King and others) X 21.5 X 5= $1612.50 per month.
Now you might get someone that’s too aggressive with the production rate and run it up to 4500 sq. foot per hour. That translates to the following: 4.5X15X21.5=$1450.00 per month
Granted, you are only getting 80% of that figure as an average: 10% admin, 5% for insurance, 5% management fee: so you would be getting between $1160.00 to $1290.00 per month.
Now lets talk about what a traditional company “budgets” for direct labor on the same building between 50 and 55% of the dollar. Remember their bid is at $1400.00 per month so they are giving their direct labor at 50% or 700.00 per month divided by 21.5 days, divided by $8.00 per hour they have their 4 hours per night cleaning it.
Now lets take the average of $1200.00 per month for “you” as an owner/operator: divide that $1200.00 per month by 21.5=$55.80 per day. Lets say you want to make $12.00 per hour, you will spend 4.65 hours per day in the same building.
Show me how you are getting cheated, people would give their right arm for $12.00 per hour for a “supplemental” income. You don’t punch a time clock, you don’t have to usually be there at a specific time, you don’t have to worry about someone “pushing ” you to go faster to make up for someone else being slower, you want to go home after your primary job, eat dinner, change clothes etc… you can.
What gets most owner/operators in trouble is they rely solely on the Jan-Pro, Coverall, Jani-King for their livlihood. Don’t, can’t. If you don’t have good business skills, you need to stay small, something you, your spouse, your family can do together. If you want to get large, you need to have a mix of larger and smaller accounts, some with the “franchising companies” and some not. You need to expand your horizons and get into floor and carpet cleaning etc….
Someone will call someone like me with my industry experience who will testify and justify the “bid” that you are saying is “too low”, ” not enough money” all day long and twice on Sunday.
Hope this information helps you and others put things in perspective.
One of the things we can do is file a complaint with the FTC, Attorney General and if we get Class Action Certification you will be able to join the National Class Action. Please take a moment and file a complaint.
http://www.Ftc.Gov
How to file a complaint with the FTC and why you should
It is very important that if you are defrauded or have been victim to one of these scams that you file a complaint with the FTC (Federal Trade Commission). Filing complaints with the FTC is very important because complaints filed with the FTC get put into a secure database that is used by law enforcement to investigate cases. The FTC does not follow each and every complaint but instead investigates sources that have lots of complaints.
The FTC will total all the related cases into large case leads and refers them out to task forces for investigations. You are not the only victim of these scams but if we do not file a complaint it may not get the attention deserved. Do not think that you are going to get a call from the FTC because you filed but it can help raise awareness with the FTC so they can take action.
The FTC however can open investigations against entities that have violated consumer protection laws so filing a complaint is very important in this regard. FTC will not advocate on your behalf or even promise they will investigate the claim however it is one way they can get the information they need to put a stop to organizations that are violating the law.
How to file a complaint with the FTC
* Go to the Federal Trade Commissions Complaint Assistant
* Click on the Complaint Assistant link on the right
* The wizard will walk you through all the steps of filing the complaint. Add as much detail as you can and make sure the information you give is clear and effectively tells your side of the complaint.
It is a very easy process but one that is vital to combating the scams that are taking advantage of millions of people.
Please read the following story that came out on The Boston Glove.Here is proof that they underbid there accounts so low that you will make less than minimum wage. I’m only allowed to put part of it so if you want to read the whole article you need to go to the website and read it all there. In my opinion the Franchisee was given very badly underbid accounts so they didn’t have enough money to pay the workers they hired. Not even minimum wage. Just like jan-pro gave me accounts that payed less than minimum wage except I wasn’t about to hire people and Rip-them off just because jan-pro Ripped-me off. Remember on TV jan-pro was exposed and people said that there checks had bounced.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/08/20/cleaning_worker_finds_her_voice_and_colleagues_wages_are_lost_no_more/?page=2
The Boston Glove Boston.com August 2009
Cleaning worker finds her voice and colleagues’ wages are lost no more
Nobody was supposed to see Gloria Rodriguez. She said she usually arrived around midnight for the overnight shift at a prominent Boston restaurant to scrub floors, tables, and toilets until they sparkled. By dawn, she was gone.
But once her paychecks failed to arrive on time – or bounced – Rodriguez suddenly became a public figure in an unusual campaign against the cleaning company Coverall and the restaurants she said they cleaned, Legal Sea Foods and the Cheesecake Factory . She told her story to churches, university students, state officials, and the media, and last month to the general counsel of Coverall cleaning company, who flew up from Florida to listen.
As a result, Coverall decided to donate $40,000 to two nonprofits that aided Rodriguez and other workers like her, Centro Presente and the Chelsea Collaborative. The groups said they will use the money to pay 18 workers their lost wages today at a press conference in Boston City Hall. Each nonprofit will get $5,000 as well.
“Many people thought it wouldn’t happen,’’ said Rodriguez at her home in Somerville. Rodriguez said she was owed $1,200 in lost wages; her husband, Rigoberto Cartagena, said he was owed more than $7,000.
“It took a long time, but it was worth it,’’ she said.
Rodriguez said she cleaned for a month at the Cheesecake Factory and for more than two months at Legal Sea Foods in the Boston area and was paid less than she earned. Her husband also worked for two months and was not paid at all.
Legal Sea Foods officials said it is Coverall’s responsibility to pay its workers. However, they said they complained to Coverall on behalf of individual workers who contacted them directly, even though they are not required to do so.
Legal Sea Foods terminated the cleaning contract in 2007, on concerns about workers’ treatment, and has started hiring their own cleaners at many restaurants directly, officials said.
“We acted by terminating the agreement and by also trying to meet with the individuals and seeing if we could employ them,’’ said Heather Lacey, associate general counsel for Legal Sea Foods. “We have done more than we were legally required to do.’’
“It’s unfortunate that money that we paid to Coverall has not gotten to the actual people who did the work in our restaurants, but that’s their responsibility to pay their workers, not ours,’’ said Mears.
But the workers said they were responding to a system that seemed stacked against them. Coverall had workers willing to scrub floors all night, and the restaurants were left gleaming. But the workers were sometimes paid too little or not at all.
At first, Rodriguez considered cutting her losses and walking away.
Instead, she and other workers turned to Centro Presente, in Somerville, and the Chelsea Collaborative, for help filing confidential complaints with the state attorney general’s office.
After more than a year of waiting, the workers and the nonprofits decided to take their complaints public.
Well again, all you’ve proven is that there are bad apples as Masters. The people in question probably worked for a Master. Though I heard since that report, that Coverall corp. is keeping the Boston area “in house” operation.
You say you were “ripped off” that the pay was below minimum wage and that you couldn’t afford to hire employees. The Jan-Pro, Jani-King and other “bidding models” don’t take into account your need/want to be lazy and hire employees to do the work and you set at home and collect a check. I’ve explained in great detail or certainly enough detail how bids are done by both traditional and “owner/operator” companies.
The complaint part is ridiculous again. You don’t answer questions, you don’t counter what is being stated by others. You stay on the same “speech” and that’s what leads me to believe that you are an attorney or someone that works for an attorney.
You’ve got people “stirred up” and all your looking to do is to fill your pockets as I had previously stated. You don’t want to help people, you want to use them, so you justify this in your mind that you are using them for a different purpose!!!
One day, people are going to wake up and realize that all of the nonsense you are spewing on this site and others (too many to list) is to fill your pockets and/or the pockets of people using you.
If these people listed in “your lawsuit” were “victims” before, they are again being victimized by you.
To 1st amendment:
Come up with some reasonable talk soon or I’m leaving this site and not coming back. You’ve got nothing on Jan-Pro, Coverall and others. All can be explained and you want to say everything is Jan-Pro’s fault and that you have none on yours.
You didn’t answer about the FDD, the fact that you should review the document, take it to an attorney, make the calls to current and/or former owner/operators.
You didn’t answer that you had 10 to 14 days from the date of the presentation to make up your mind and by the way, no one held a “gun” to your head or twisted your are to give Jan-Pro the money.
You didn’t answer the question in regards to the bidding argument, I showed you specifically where/how bids are derived in our business both as a traditional company owner and as one in the owner/operator system.
You didn’t answer the question that sometimes owner/operators turned down perfectly good and valued accounts and that there is reasonable expectation by the “master” to take that “billing” off the clock. Doesn’t mean you aren’t going to get it, simply means it comes “off the clock”.
You didn’t answer the facts that the “masters” are independant corporations, your suit should be filed against them, not against corporate jan-pro. In that same “field” you were agreed to, signed by you that you and any others were to go through mediation/arbitration to settle any disputes. You didn’t.
You didn’t answer or show “fraud” on anyone’s part, a contract is a contract, don’t like the terms, don’t sign, don’t like the terms, negotiate better or different terms. I go back to, no one twisted your arm to get your money.
You didn’t answer or show “deceit”, they gave you a presentation, they gave you documentation, they gave you time, they gave you books, DVD’s and training, common sense dictates that you aren’t going to get “rich” by cleaning toilets, if that were the case, everyone would be doing it, cleaning toilets isn’t rocket sceince!
You didn’t answer the “theft”, you say your accounts were stolen from you, they weren’t your accounts in the first place, second was there reasons why they transfered those accounts from you, were you doing a poor job, were you doing things improper, were your employee’s stealing, were they not showing up for work, were they not wearing uniforms/ID Badges, had you been warned prior. I’ll bet a dime to a dollar that some/all of the above were legitimate reasons for pulling the accounts, I’ll bet that their’s documentation to prove that, I’ll bet you forgot to ask for documentation from the others in your suit.
I think in less than a weeks time, I’ve shown you and the others you represent that your lawsuit (if you have one), is futile. You want to change a situation, do it the right way. You say you notified corporate, you say you went through your “master” etc….. Prove it. I know you didn’t go through mediation. IF YOUR MASTER, was treating you and the others so badly, why didn’t you simply “quit in mass”. Why didn’t you organize a meeting and ask for participation from JPI, why didn’t you organize a writing campaign within your own “master” group.
Probably because it was the more difficult process. It’s easy to let someone(s) else do the work for you.
“all you’ve proven is that there are bad apples as Masters”
That’s all? Jerry, try applying your same accountability standard to the franchisor that you do to the often unsophisticated and less experienced franchise owners.
The franchisors recruit, screen & select the Masters.
The franchisors provided the training and support.
The franchisors control the trademark they operate under and have legal agreements that restrict the Masters behavior and practices.
The franchisors must be making lots of money from the Masters’ unethical business practices.
Why else would they let their reputations and trademarks be damaged by “bad apples” unless they were complicit and unless that’s just the way the system operates?
Are you saying that corporate jan-pro is so weak and impotent that they can’t even control their own franchisees? Which is it? Complicit or impotent?
Honestly, impotent. Because of how the “corporate” and “master” relationship was structured during the Jacques Lapointe era, there is almost little that corporate Jan-Pro can do at this point unless they are willing to go to court against the “bad apples”, problem is, they would gain public support for those actions, but they probably wouldn’t win either, they could suspend the right of a “bad apple” to sell unit franchisees until such time as they complied, but then there would be constant follow up required on the “corporate end”.
Remember, the masters are seperate entities and seperate corporations “control” those entities. The “corporate” structure at Jan-Pro is so poor because they have “uncaring lackeys” in control that they are unwilling to take the unprecendented step of suing their own “masters”.
Trust me, I’m not letting “corporate” Jan-Pro, Jani-King nor Coverall “escape” discussion, I’m stating their is plenty of blame to go around and to say that the “unit franchisee” carries no responsibility, no blame, is 100% the victim in this matter is no where close to the “truth” either.
You can only carry the “unitelligent” banner so long as a “unit franchisee”. You had time, money, effort, obligation and choice to join Jan-Pro and/or the other owner/operator system.
Properlly structured negotiation is the key, that begins with corporate Jan-Pro working to resolve the “unhappy franchisee” issue and at the same time, getting all of the masters together to agree to a “new corporate relationship” one that is more strengent and oversight based by corporate.
Also, corporate needs to “encourage” those “bad apples” to sell and to sell quickly. Even if “corporate” takes/makes those offers to buy/transition between current masters doing right by their customers and their unit franchisee with the one’s that are not.
It’s a mess, no doubt about it. Blame is plenty to go around, suing each other isn’t going to solve anything, only thing that does is fills attorneys pockets and causes the problem to continue for an extended period of time. Someone has to take the first step, someone has to do it in a public way.
As far as the “money” goes, most of the current masters were in place prior to Greentree purchase, yes their are monthly royalty payments made, but those are low compared to the “bulk sums” that come in for sale of “master licenses”.
Still waiting on 1st amendment to answer all of the issues that I listed. Points of fact. What’s the matter, hard to address what you don’t know. It makes me convinced that if you aren’t an attorney, you are working “for one”. When I make specific “business related” comments, you can’t answer or you take days to answer.
Seems to me that you are nothing but a “gopher” for an attorney, one that has worked out a deal with you to give you a piece of his pie if/when a settlement is reached or are you given a % of his/her take when an unsuspecting “former franchisee” gives them money to “fight” the big, bad Jan-Pro, Coverall and others.
1st amendment, you have posts all over the place, i’ve counted at least 10 just on my own. Seems like you are advertising for what? whom?
To the (Fake j from Indiana)
You still wont give me your real name. Why are you so afraid ? What are you hiding from ?
What are you so afraid off ?
You say that you are from Indiana ? Guess what I already had people from Indiana call me and tell me that jan-pro is ripping them off.
People call me because they are seriously getting ripped-off . You and jan-pro are so desperately trying to stop me.
People from were you supposedly worked from are also getting RIPED-OFF.
I’m wondering how many people you RIPED-OFF ???
How many families did you hurt ???
How many single Moms like Jagoda Walczak did you Rip-off ???
You say you don’t work for jan-pro any longer however you are in here constantly attacking me. So much so that it’s obvious that you must have a lot to loose!
You say that you were an INSIDER but you could never anwser the questions that I asked about how many people left jan-pro.
How many THOUSANDS have left jan-pro because they were ripped-off ?
I DEMAND that you give us a NUMBER ?
How many THOUSANDS of people have left jan-pro ?
If Mc Donalds knows how many hamburgers, milkshakes and happy meals they have sold then jan-pro knows how many THOUSANDS have left jan-pro ?
Don’t LIE and say you don’t know after all you were an INSIDER !!!
Answer the QUESTION !!!
You keep asking me for proof that I was tacking legal action against jan-pro and when I tell you to e-mail me so that I can send you a copy of the Lawsuit you wont.
You talked so much crap and when I proved something to you all you did was change the conversation.
You WANTED PROOF that I was tacking legal action against jan-pro and when I tell you that I can send you a copy of the lawsuit you wont e-mail me and you change the conversation, you change the subject, you run and hide!
You talked so much crap and attacked me so much about me showing proof that I was taking legal action and when I say here is the proof you evade me.
I Invite you to come to our trial. When you do we will overwhelmingly prove our case with so much evidence that it will Singe the hair off a wolf’s REAR !
One of the things we can do is file a complaint with the FTC, Attorney General and if we get Class Action Certification you will be able to join the National Class Action. Please take a moment and file a complaint.
http://www.Ftc.Gov
How to file a complaint with the FTC and why you should
It is very important that if you are defrauded or have been victim to one of these scams that you file a complaint with the FTC (Federal Trade Commission). Filing complaints with the FTC is very important because complaints filed with the FTC get put into a secure database that is used by law enforcement to investigate cases. The FTC does not follow each and every complaint but instead investigates sources that have lots of complaints.
The FTC will total all the related cases into large case leads and refers them out to task forces for investigations. You are not the only victim of these scams but if we do not file a complaint it may not get the attention deserved. Do not think that you are going to get a call from the FTC because you filed but it can help raise awareness with the FTC so they can take action.
The FTC however can open investigations against entities that have violated consumer protection laws so filing a complaint is very important in this regard. FTC will not advocate on your behalf or even promise they will investigate the claim however it is one way they can get the information they need to put a stop to organizations that are violating the law.
How to file a complaint with the FTC
* Go to the Federal Trade Commissions Complaint Assistant
* Click on the Complaint Assistant link on the right
* The wizard will walk you through all the steps of filing the complaint. Add as much detail as you can and make sure the information you give is clear and effectively tells your side of the complaint.
It is a very easy process but one that is vital to combating the scams that are taking advantage of millions of people.
One of the things we can do is file a complaint with the FTC, Attorney General and if we get Class Action Certification you will be able to join the National Class Action. Please take a moment and file a complaint.
http://www.Ftc.Gov
How to file a complaint with the FTC and why you should
It is very important that if you are defrauded or have been victim to one of these scams that you file a complaint with the FTC (Federal Trade Commission). Filing complaints with the FTC is very important because complaints filed with the FTC get put into a secure database that is used by law enforcement to investigate cases. The FTC does not follow each and every complaint but instead investigates sources that have lots of complaints.
The FTC will total all the related cases into large case leads and refers them out to task forces for investigations. You are not the only victim of these scams but if we do not file a complaint it may not get the attention deserved. Do not think that you are going to get a call from the FTC because you filed but it can help raise awareness with the FTC so they can take action.
The FTC however can open investigations against entities that have violated consumer protection laws so filing a complaint is very important in this regard. FTC will not advocate on your behalf or even promise they will investigate the claim however it is one way they can get the information they need to put a stop to organizations that are violating the law.
How to file a complaint with the FTC
It is a very easy process but one that is vital to combating the scams that are taking advantage of millions of people.
This will be my last entry into this site. 1st amendment didn’t/doesn’t answer any of the legitmate questions nor answer any of the obvious statements that “normal” people answer. He simply cuts and pastes the same stuff over and over again.
Final statement of facts:
1. 1st amendment must be taking money from an attorney in order to “blog” on so many sites. All he is doing is taking advantage of the same people he believes Jan-Pro, Coverall and others have taken advantage of.
2. 1st amendment is out for blood and vengence. He has nothing constructive to do or say about this situation.
3. 1st amendment has been called out, point by point by someone who has no ties to corporate Jan-Pro, Jani-King or Coverall and he hasn’t answered or countered on a single point.
4. 1st amendment continues to “churn” the same quotes, pages, stories etc. and doesn’t answer any real questions.
5. 1st amendment wants to attack anyone that gives him a point of fact and then he wants to make it personal.
In closing, the administrator of this site has allowed 1st amendment to post things that others would get in trouble for posting. It makes you wonder why. Sites like these are supposed to be an area for “venting”, “for consolement” and “for discussion”. 1st amendment doesn’t fit that mold except for the venting part. He ends up shutting out and shutting up people who truly want to help. Unless 1st amendment can deny and prove that my statements are false, he needs to be banned from this site.
To j who says that he is from Indiana ?
1. I can’t help it if what I paste is the truth and it bothers you and your corporation jan-pro. I guess you Can’t handle the Truth.
2. You keep stating that I’m out for vengeance and blood. This is your attempt to make me shut up. It’s your ugly attempt to take my 1st Amendment Rights. It looks like you and your company jan-pro can’t handle the dirty truth.
3. We want justice that’s all. Look at one of the actions we seek , Number 5 of our complaint.
Page 14 Number 5. Declaratory and Injunctive relief, requiring Jan-pro to cease its illegal Practices.
Basically this means we want jan-pro to stop hurting and ripping off so many people.
4. Now you say that you have no ties to jan-pro but before you were saying that you were and INSIDE person at jan-pro? Now you say that you have no TIES to jan-pro. Did you one day just wake up, and all of a sudden you said to yourself I’m going online to talk crap to people who got ripped-off by jan-pro. Did you not have anything better to do with your life.? We just can’t believe anything you say. I know that you are still with jan-pro, I just wonder how much they are paying you.
5. I noticed you used the word “ Churn” that is the word that jan-pro uses when they take accounts away from people for no reason and then resale them to another new person who buys a fake franchise.
6. You try and say that I just want to attack. Here you go again at your attempt to shut me up, to keep me qiet. We want justice and you try and turn it around, you want to make the victim the bad person. I wonder what you would say if jan-pro ripped-off your Mom. How would you feel then!
7. You also want the Administrator to not let me post here. Here we go again at your attempt to take my 1st Amendment rights away. Your attemp to hide the TRUTH. This is exactly what jan-pro does to people, it tries to shut them up. I bet you would love to shut everybody up wouldn’t you.
8. Thank You Administrator for letting all of us post. I feel that the administrator has been very fair in letting all of us post. However you want him to ban people who tell the Truth.
9. To anybody looking into buying a fake jan-pro franchise this is what will happen if you buy a fake franchise, they will talk down at you and take your business away for no reason if you say something that they don’t like.
10. I did answered all of your questions but you never answered all of mine. You never answered the following.
A. How many people have left jan-pro.
B. When jan-pro was exposed on TV on channel 52 on a show called “Al rojo Vivo” with reporter Maria Celeste the ladies that came out got Bounced checks and when they went to complain at jan-pro they got kicked out. Many of the ladies also said that there accounts were taken away for no reason . Jan-pro said they would fix there situation but it’s been months and they still haven’t.
C. You called me names and trashed me because you wanted me to show you proof that I was taking legal action against jan-pro. When I offered to give you a copy of the Lawsuit and send it to your e-mail address you changed the conversation or simply refuse to do it.
D. Corporate knows that there is so many problems but they still refuse to do anything about it. They still haven’t done anything to fix the situation. So this is my proof that the whole corporation is BAD. When we called Corporate they wouldn’t help us. We called them and asked them for help and they just wouldn’t help us. We tried to get help from them and they would not help us they just ignored us. We had no choice other than to seek legal help. I have received calls from almost every state jan-pro has a Franchise at even Canada.
E. Why does jan-pro take accounts away from people and then resale them? That is Theft and Fraud.
G. Why does jan-pro underbid there accounts so low that they pay bellow minimum wage ?
To jan-pro corporation,
You have hurt so many people, you have hurt so many families. Please stop doing so and rectify the situation.
1st amendment has not ties to any corporation, lawyer or makes not money out of this. Invested in a Jan-Pro franchise and did not get what it was promise, worst yet he was treated like an worthless employee after all of the money paid for the franchise like myself. However, like I said before there are some corporate gophers involved in this site that is to the point that is ridiculous the claims they post (from average franchise gross income, to average cleaning square feet per hour).
I’d like to throw in my .02. Jan pro underbids because they do not care about the franchisee making profit. They get their royalties and sales and marketing fees no matter what. 20 percent of a 100 dollars is better than 20 percent of 0 dollars. I own a successful cleaning service. 4,000 sf of QUALITY production per hour is flat out bull shit. Can you do 4,000 sf of half ass production…sure…but Jan-Pro comes around with their little 50 point check list and knit picks then has their reason to take an account. Realistically a motivated employee could do around 2000sf of quality production per hour. I also want to know how any cleaning service on the planet could operate successfully with a 10 percent profit margin? Your company would need to have 300,000 in revenue before you could even pay yourself poorly for running and managing it. When people invest in Jan Pro they give you all this hype about how you will run your own business and control your future. Making ’12 an hour on your own terms’ isn’t running a business its being the business and getting paid shit to do it. Jan Pro is misleading, a rip off, etc. To say anything different is flat out silly or unintelligent. Running a competitive orginization is diificult enough before you have to give away 20.5 percent of revenue. Jan Pro has a 950 dollar package because they prey on the weak and uneducated. They know these people have no clue what’s going on, can treat them like dogs, and throw all the underbid contracts their way. Jan Pro works out OK for the people who invest 40k because the Masters know they can’t treat someone who h
has an extra 40k lying around like an asshole Ever notice no successful business people invest in a Unit Franchise its because its a poor investment the smart mney stays away you are better off buying US Treasuries or working at Mcdonalds Jan Pro looks for Masters who can sell Jan Pro makes its money from selling franchises and selling accounts they dont care if they have to underbid an account to get it they get paid no matter how underbid it is investing in this company is a pooor poor idea and anyone who argues for it is a puppet or not as sophisticated as they say Your ROI with this company is peanuts if you can even manage to stay afloat again i have to laugh at ‘own your own business with Jan Pro..do the work and make 12 an hr with no benefits ‘ haha Where to I sign up for that rip off? i dont know if what Jan Pro is doing is illegal..im no lawyer what i do know is its a poor poor investment aka a rip off. And Jerry if you think this is a great deal you tell me what kind of business you want. Ill chatge you a fee, ill get you the work and charge you a fee, ill take 20.5 percent of your revenue, ill underbid because I don’t care if you nake a cent…and oh yea. Don’t let me forget to mention I will own the contracts that generate the revenue.
Jerry, you seem like a rational man. Jan Pro is a terrible investment and I would consider it a rip off. I don’t know how any intelligent business man can argue in favor of a Jam Pro unit franchise. I myself get mislead and screwed by Jan Pro. I am a successful business man and operate a cleaning service that generates 6 figures of revenue. Since you feel Jerry is no good to deal with how about you post questions you would like answered and in defense of Jan Pro and Ill tell you why and with experience in an educated way why that’s not the truth. I don’t understand how you can stick up for a model like this when you have no experiience with it. So let’s have an intelligent discussion and all the people who read this site can decide for themselves
To Joe A,
I concur with what you have to say regarding the underbid accounts. Its nice to see someone on here with some true business sense. This is where most of the reform needs to take place. I believe that aside from simply perfoming the due dilligence when it comes to ‘gettting in the bed’ with Jan-Pro, most franchisees get the misconception that they are being ripped off, when they truly have no idea about how the bottom line numbers are generated in this business. Jan-Pro doesnt care about you making a profit, such as any other large major franchise organization. Thats what we need here is some perspective on things. Imagine being a Subway franchisee, and having little to no control over the regional owner who wants to put 17 stores within a quarter mile of each other. His goal is to increase market share and revenue for the brand. NOT YOU! Same here, Jan-Pro is in competition with the other Big 3 and they want to have their name in as many places as possible and in doing so, they enrich themselves greatly. There honestly isnt any true incentive in associating with any cleaning franchise company period. The costs associated with acquiring new business with these brands are extremely inflated. The ongoing fees are unjust and are not in line with actual real world costs (ex. Insurance 6% of monthy billings 2,000,000GL/50,000Bonding $25.00-6,000/mth when you can purchase 1,000,000/25,000 (which is all you really need)! Bond for less than 500/yr. They are making a hefty profit on selling franchisees insurance! They will encourage you to participate in their plan by telling you independent insuarnce is to pricey or they jack up the minimum coverages to make it expensive) Sales & Marketing fees are an absolute joke! If you do it right, it can cost less than $5/ customer to market yourself to potential customers (AdWords, Website/Blog, In House Promotions, Networking& Referrals, Cold & Warm Calling)
With computers and technology being what they are, you could also do your billing and A/R for a fraction of what Jan-Pro takes! The only thing that they keep you in the dark about is how to measure and bid ur own jobs because this effectively puts them out of business! I am a hobbyist programmer and I am currently developing a piece of software that will allow you to put together professional and accurate bids. It will be available for download from the internet and will be hosted on a website that I am developing to service the needs of janitorial professionals. My vision is to bring us together as a community and not to bicker and debate over that which we have no control. It will have all the resources that you cant find anywhere about how to grow and be successful in this business. (To Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager: I would like to collaborate with you on this effort. I know you have a wealth of knowledge and people across the country can benefit from what you have to offer). I will post the links on this site when everything is ready) THIS IS THE BEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO SHOW JAN-PRO that we wont tolerate the BS they hand out and once there are no people left to buy franchises or to pay S&M fees, they will reform or collapse under the weight of their own mayhem.
I do think its a rip off though. It may not be illegal (I don’t know, I’m not a lawyer) but it is a rip off. For everyone who gets pissed at Jan Pro just compete against them. Its not hard. If you delt with Jan Pro you have the insider view of how they operate, their tactis, and the knowledge of every other internationals tactics. After Jan Pro screwed me I did that. And I did it with 0 dollars. I got a professional logo designed (90 bucks), business cards (35 bucks) and liability insurance (500 a year seperated into monthly payments.) I picked up a phone book and called everyone in it and said ‘HI my name is Joe. I own … We are a commercial cleaning service expanding into the area. We provide service unparalleled to any other company around. Would you be interested in setting up an appointment to get a free estimate and hear more about us. 5 months later I bill into the 6 figures at 23 an hour at how long I decide it will take. I make them pay me back for what they stole from me by taking their accounts.
..And if your clueless how to bid during your meeting nonshalantly ask how long their company is there each night now. I’ve never not been told and it gives you an idea how much they are paying now. Oh yea. You’ve also seen all Jan Pros marketing material so you know what an internationals company material looks like. Get on Microsoft Word and come up with your own material to fit your company. It’ll take 2 hours. I wasn’t waiting for a lawyer to get my money back. Them screwing me has cost them over 25x what they got from me in 5 months.
I am open to teaching anyone who wants to learn how to run their own operation.
Many z’s are getting their own programs going, eliminating the “middle-man”; if you are a current operator you should consider doing the same.
Many have asked me about the lawsuits. Calm down. Change is coming. It just takes time.
Well where do I start:
1. 1st amendment, noticed how you didn’t verify or deny that you were recieiving benefits from the law firm that is representing you and others in the lawsuit against Jan-Pro. (so much for clarity, honesty and straightforwardness)
2. 1st amendment, noticed how you stated you did everything by the book, except you still didn’t go to mediation or arbitration in order to “settle” the issues as stipulated in the contract that you signed/agreed to when you became an owner/operator of a jan-pro unit franchise.
3. 1st amendment, no one’s tried to “shut you up” because no one has as much time on their hands as you obviously do going from post to post and inputting your “cut and paste” attorney generated/spewing 1/2 truths.
4. 1st amendment, no matter what I say, you accuse me of first being an insider, then not knowing anything, to working for jan-pro corporate to working for another law firm etc…. Bottom line is, if you know me, just reveal my name, title etc… yourself, you have my permission to do so. (but be careful, if your wrong, it will cost you and your law firm that’s backing you)
5. 1st amendment and others: You want true change, you want to resolve the issues that are plaguing jan-pro and the others, come up with a dialogue, free of “emotion” and “lawsuits”, I’m sure that all of the “major players” would agree that change is a must.
In regards to why buy a jan-pro, jani-king, coverall or other franchise,it’s really this simple:
1. Lower overhead operating costs in regards to administration, insurance, office space etc..
2. You get an industry known name. You don’t understand the value of it, but when you are going up against the “big boys” you don’t stand a chance of getting that contract without the name and reputation and references that name brings.
3. You get training (if done properly) someone, stated that there’s “no way” to do 4,000 sq. foot per hour production. REALLY! I urge you to speak to “Team Cleaning Concepts” who has a system that teaches you to go at a 10,000 sq. foot per hour pace, I urge you to visit BSCAI and ISSA websites and see industry standard production rates for various types of facilities etc… Don’t believe them, go to Jon-Don, The Janitorial Store websites and see numerous books, production rate schedules etc.. free for downloading or for a small price.
4. You get the proper support of a well trained sales staff that will allow you to grow as big or as small as you want.
5. Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall and others primarily advertise that this is a supplemental income proposition. Are there those that grow this into a full-time adventure yes, but primarily it is meant for those families who don’t want to work at McDonalds, Burger King, Rally’s, other cleaning companies that pay at or slightly above minimum wage, so yes, $12.00 per hour is a great deal.
6. Real reform happens when people sit down and talk, if you ran into “road blocks” on the master and corporate level, then I can agree that maybe this was your last resort, but seeing the postings, “hearing” the anger and “feeling” that someone has filled some/all of you with dillusions of fame/fortune, I believe that nothing will happen until one or both sides drop the “lawyering” factor.
Only change coming, will have to be done by reasonable people, i don’t see that here. By the way, that includes the “lackey’s” in charge of Jan-Pro Corporate.
To j from Indiana
It’s funny how you said that you were not going to post anymore but I knew it was a lie and here you are attacking me again.
1. Now your accusing me of getting benefits from a law firm. I‘m not getting anything from anybody. I’m not getting nothing from nobody. I was Ripped-off and I’m simply standing up for myself. If you get ripped-off you should stand up for yourself. If you had close to 100 people calling you and telling you how they got ripped-off I think that you to would be bothered by it.
2. Jan-pro refused to talk to us I tried talking to them and many other people tried to also. There is an article that came out I think on franchisetimes.com that says that the Franchisor gets to pick the mediator and they pay the mediator so the mediator will only rule in the Franchisors side because the franchisor pays them. Also by going to a mediator no changes get done the franchisor will just keep ripping-off people. With our legal action we put a stop to there illegal and unethical business practices.
3. You did try and shut me up. You said that the administrator should kick me out. Then you try and say that I have to much time in my hands to be here but you have many post on here also. You have spent a lot of time here posting.
4. You said that you were an insider but you would never tell us how many thousands of people have left jan-pro. You said that if I know your name that I should just post it. Why don’t you just post it .
5. Again like I told you many of us tried to talk to jan-pro but they would not talk to us. Remember those ladies that came out on the TV special were jan-pro was exposed they said that when they went to talk to jan-pro about there checks bouncing they were kicked out.
6. Our main objective is to stop jan-pro from hurting any more American families.
1st amendment: No your primary objective is to line your own pockets and to try and make some sort of fame and fortune for yourself. That’s why you are constantly posting on numerous sites and pointing people towards your “law firm” and the fact that you get a “kick” out of being so “famous”.
1st amendment: My postings have only been recent. Unlike yours that literally go back for one year or more.
1st amendment: Have you ever read the 1st amendment to the constitution, do you really understand what that means.
1st amendment: If you and some of the others were truly interested in “reforming the industry”, you would be contacting the people that actually have a vested interest in Jan-Pro. Primarily the Webster Equity Fund. Those people don’t like publicity and they sure don’t like hearing from the “masses”. If you start calling them, emailing them, making your point to them, I can guarantee you they will instruct Jan-Pro to meet with a reasonable group of you and possibly one attorney. But no, I go back to what I said earlier and repeatidly, your out for “blood”, you have “vengence” in your heart , you want “fame and fortune” for yourself and the law firm you are working with.
Anytime you want to end this “tit for tat” let me know and I’ll give you 10 to 12 points that would truly mean industry reform that ALL can live with.
Jerry:
In my opinion employment laws are being violated by the company as well as a few of the larger z’s.
I would be happy to sit down with the proper parties, Illinois Department of Employment Security, and others, to discuss my material.
It is factual, supported by numerous Court reference points and emotion free.
I would prefer not to proceed to litigation but am prepared to do so if necessary.
No matter the cost.
I’m not arguing wether your way towards reform is right or wrong. I don’t care. I’d rather go out and proactively take the money they took from me back. I just want everyone to know who sees this site that cleaning franchises are a rip off regardless of if its an illegal rip off or legal rip off and a horrendous investment. I’d also like to add that paying for a 12 dollar an hour job with no benefits is absolutely positively not ‘as good as it gets’ or ‘a good deal’. That is a ridiculous statement. People want to own a business to make money, acheive the American Dream, and financial freedom. 12 dollars will get you none of that. You would be better off taking your franchise fee money and going to a local community college and earning a certificate for something.
Joe A: Sometimes people aren’t interested in college, technical school etc… Sometimes people simply want to suppliment their income in order to purchase a house, buy a new car, put a child through college. Why do you think so many people work part time for a “traditional cleaning company”. Do you really think that everyone fits into the “same mold”.
So let me ask you, what do you pay the people that clean “your buildings”. Per your own statement “im billing in the six figures”. In order to do that, you would need to be billing in excess of $8500.00 per month. Are you doing all of that work by yourself? If you are, god bless you!!!! I’ve been in this industry for over 25 years, I’ve NEVER run into anyone that can clean that much “square footage” by themselves on a nightly basis. You are the man!!!!
For you to state “matter of fact” that the franchise cleaning business is a “rip off” plain and simple, makes me wonder how you got into the cleaning business at all. Franchise cleaning or owner/operator systems have worked for decades. All just a little different, but at the end of the day, they are a “name” at minimum. Is their verifiable problems with the system, YES!!!!!!! Can the be fixed, YES!!!!
But let me ask this of you, do you think every traditional company runs perfect? If so, why do so many of them go out of business each year? Why do they have employee turnover rates in excess of 200% on avg. based upon the lates BSCAI facts and figures. Why do customers cancel their contracts with “traditional companies” nearly 5X higher than those run by the “RIP OFF ARTISTS (per you)”.
Do you offer your employee’s benefits? If not, then don’t pick on an owner/operator that is simply trying to do better than their parents did!!!
Talk about “talking down” to an entire group of people.
Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager:
Not sure where you fit into all of this, but let me try and understand:
1. You don’t own a unit franchisee, so where’s your standing in any “lawsuit”?
2. Unless you are going to reveal “privacy related issues” that I would strongly advise you against doing, you are going to violate your non-compete not only with Jan-Pro but with your “master owner” that paid your salery, benefits, commissions etc…that to me makes no sense.
3. You claim to have information that states there are “employment law” violations on both the “master owners” part and the “larger owner/operators”. How did you get that information legally? First of all no Operations Manager in the Jan-Pro system has that kind of information related to the “owner/operators”. You aren’t even supposed to have any interaction with the employees of the owner/operator without his/her being there. If they were there, I’m sure that they wouldn’t allow their employees to reveal anything of substance.
In regards to having information of employment law violations of the “master owner”, weren’t you and the others in the “office” paid salary?
Finally, the subject at hand is the reforming of the masters and of JPI as a whole.
I no longer do any cleaning. I pay between 8-11 an hour. I offer supplementary income. When I look for employees I do not tell them they are going to own their own business, control their future, or have the oppurtunity of financial freedom like Jan Pro does. You can tell me they don’t say that but there are full page ads in the paper here. 12 an hour for a part time job is as good as it gets. Jan pro doesn’t say that though. They tell you you will own a business, make all this money, etc. I heard it with my own ears. Why do I say it is flat out a rip off and bad investment.. It cost 3600 to purchase a 5k a year package. Jan pro owns the contracts and you are at their beck and call. Starting a traditional cleaning service cost me 100 for a logo, 35 for business cards, 500 a year for liability insurance (45 a month) and 22 dollars for 2 embroidered shirts, I made my own marketing material with Microsoft Office. With my 200 dollar initial investment I picked up a phone, opened the yellow pages and called every single person in it who needed a cleaning service and said exactly ‘ Hi My name is Joe, I own …, we are a commercial cleaning service. We are not your typical cleaning service. I’m just calling to see if your interesteg in setting up an appointment to get a free estimate and hear more about us’ I consider jan pro a rip off. I own everything and my initial investment was 200 dollars. Jan Pro is misleading. It may not be a rip off for the person who wants to supplement their income with a part time job. However for a person who wants to own a successful, profitable, fullfilling business to give to their children ( you have jan pro for 10 years w the option to renew for 10 years if they let you) it is a rip off. In my region Jan Pro advertises ‘financial freedom, own your own business, etc’. If you think its such a fantastic deal and investment why don’t you take your money (you seem rational and relatively educated so you probably have some) and invest in a unit franchise? Ill say it again. If you want to own a business, if you want to have real control over your finances DO NOT invest in Jan Pro. And I never said traditional companies have no problems. I said Jan Pro is a rip off. They are misleading to the point that I consider it lying. I heard it and delt with it myself. You can tell me I don’t know what in talking about, I’m a foolan etc. That is not the case. I am an educated, inteligent individual. They flat out lied and mislead me. The FDD allows them to make any changes in policy they want. When you are in a business relationship with someone you have to have a level of trust. I read the FDD and took it at what its worth. I didn’t expect 2 weeks later for them to change every policy that I initially agreed to. (But per the FDD they are able too, they can flat out do anything they want, wether its in your interest or not, and you could say as an educated person I should have known they could. I did, however in business there is a certain level of trust needed to have a good business relationship so I trusted them not to flat out change everything) There is no control on what a master can do. So I’m flat out blanket calling it a rip off. Can it be fixed..Maybe but right now its not fixed so its a rip off. If you want to purchase a 12 an hour job its not a rip off, if you want to own a business (and not just the literal definition of a business) its a rip off and poor investment. But I’d like to say again you are stopping at nothing to convince people differently so I have to ask do you own a UNIT franchise? If not and its such a fantastic oppurtunity with such a little initial investment why don’t you?
To ( j from Indiana )
1. Here we go again all you do is attack me and say lies about me. That is defamation and an attack on my character. You are only telling lies about me and making things up and that is wrong. I was ripped-off and I’m standing up for myself. My main objective is to stop jan-pro from hurting so many Americans. You are guilty of defamation and being a liar.
2. Yes I have posted for over a year. More people and different people from different parts of the country also keep posting. By the way I’m not the only person tacking legal action against jan-pro. There has been many more people. I also find it interesting how you said that you were not going to post anymore but you keep on posting.
3. Yes I have read the 1st Amendment. The reason I picked it is because jan-pro has tried to shut up people.
4. I find it interesting how before you said that you knew nothing about Webster and now you want me to contact them. They can also contact us. Besides we contacted jan-pro many times. Again you keep lying and defaming me and telling straight out lies. You want to call it vengeance and blood but even a judge said that the way they operate is like a Modified Ponzi Scheme. When this Ponzi Scheme is totally revealed the authorities will proceed accordingly. We have the proof and will prove it.
You know what I honestly don’t care. The point of this site is to make people see the bad side of the franchise business. You can argue its case all you want but if someone stumbles across this site while thinking about investing they will see so many different unhappy people that they would be brain dead to invest. Jerry, you must own a Master Franchise or work for a Master Franchise to so vehemently argue for it. Otherwise I have no clue why you would waste your time convincing people its a good investment. I’m going to speak for myself and myself only. I owned a Unit Franchise. I worked like a dog, got treated like a dog, and billed 70k a year and they took so much money for so many different things I wasn’t able to survive. I had to abandon my franchise. I took my 200 dollars and started fron scratch. I now have a Mercedes in front of my house. If you give any cleaning franchise your money your an IDIOT, just like I was. They will take advantage of you because business is about making money. The more the Masters screw you the more money they make. That’s life and you can’t really blame them. Either you can have the dollar or they can have it. Tough decision huh. I have nothing else to say I just hope that anyone who actually wants to own a business and is thinking about investing with these companies doesn’t and either starts from scratch or searches for a different investment. If not there is a good probability you’ll eventually be posting on this site too. If you want to pay for low paying job with a little freedom these companies are the way to go.
Joe A: No i don’t own a unit franchise business, nor would i. It’s not because of it being a “bad deal” or a “rip off”. It’s because if I did anything for a “franchise based company” it would be as a Master Franchise Owner or in the corporate office.
I’ve been in this for over 25 years, I’ve worked for some of the largest “players” in this industry, I owned my own business for a number of years in Florida. Yes, it was a traditional company. However, I have no problem stating this with an honest face, IF I DID OWN AGAIN, i would own an owner/operator based system.
I would treat my unit franchisees as the “investors” that they are in my business, I would bend over backwards to make sure they received the best training, support and service that I could afford.
I would never have my “business owed” going any longer than 90 days out. I would only fine when needed, I would correct and adjust where needed in order to have a group of satisfied, financially stable owner/operators as my “partners”.
I wouldn’t sales and market fee anything more than for a 3x multiplier, larger facilities I would only go to a 1.5 multiplier.
My finance rate would never be higher than 10 to 12% apr.
My owner/operators would have the option of financing their starter kits up to six month’s interest free
My owner/operators would have the “sweat equity” option for up to six month’s without paying interest.
My owner/operators would have access to me at anytime within reason.
My owner/operators would be paid by the 15th of the month following service not the 30th.
My owner/operators would be able to bring their employees into a training class conducted by operations in order to assist with their training needs at no charge
My owner/operators would be taught how to get jobs on their own and wouldn’t have to pay me sales and marketing fees.
My owner/operators would be the best trained, well organized, best respected in the company.
My owner/operators would be able to meet with me at anytime (within reason) and if I couldn’t satisfy their issue, I would gladly put them in communication with someone on the “corporate level”.
I would fight for the unit franchise owners to have a “steering commitee” that would meet with a corporate representitive on a quarterly basis. (nationwide) not just in my “area”.
I would allow corporate entity to audit me on a yearly basis to confirm that I was operating under the standards condusive to the “corporation” and my fellow “masters”
I would be subject to fines and penalties similar in % to my unit franchise owners if I didnt live up to expectations and commitments including fulfilling “business owed” in a timely fashion.
I would agree to have any/all legal remedies handled by a court appointed mediator and if still no satisfaction, I would allow “standing” in proper district or state court and abide by their ruling.
I would agree to “full disclosure” if at anytime anything was to be changed in the FDD, it would be put on notice for a period not less than 90 days prior to taking effect.
I would agree that any/all fines could be/would be waived with appropriate verifcation by Operations, myself and the customer.
I wouldn’t “hold” any customer past a 30 day cure and 30 day cancellation policy and all owner/operators would have to agree to the same.
I would allow 1 turn down without counting against “clock” for any contract turned down by an owner/operator, would only count 50% for the 2nd and 75% for the third with 100% counting from the 4th on.
I would allow any owner/operator to “opt out” and get a full refund after 30 days of working in their first contract, minus any needed costs, such as used equipment etc..
That’s how I would run my Master and that’s how I would restructure/reform this “commercial cleaning franchise industry”. I would put any company that didn’t “conform” to the above out of business within three years.
Just in case you, 1st amendment and any others wanted to know.
Joe A: Did you buy each of your $8.00 per hour employees a new Mercedes? Or did you make money off them?
Did you not pay for workmans compensation insurance, sure isn’t listed on what you paid on a yearly basis.
Did you withold taxes from your employee’s? If so, you had to pay matching FICA, FUTA and SUTA. where’s that in your “list of items paid”.
Where’s your equipment costs, uniform costs, background check information, chemical costs, overhead for your phone, your letterhead, your brochures, did you have internet advertising? how about a national contract program?
Funny, you are made that “masters” make money, but you did the same thing. You forget that not everyone has the confidence to sell accounts, knows how to bid, form a contract, list task schedules, or did you simply have everything on a “hand shake”.
You say this site is for only “whiners” “complainers”"moaners” and the fact that overall good companies can get “slandered” on a daily basis. How about the masters that paid good money for the geographic rights, name, operating model for these various companies, what about the vast majority of franchisees that are making a living, fulfilling their aspect of the “american dream”. Just because their view of the “dream” is different than yours.
Funny, you did the same thing to your employees, yet you want to “chastize” others. Funny, you complain and make “blanket statements” without thinking about the majority.
Food for thought.
1st amendment: You don’t see me posting on any other site than this one.
1st amendment: You don’t see me simply “attacking you”, though you seem to be the “biggest dog in the fight” and the one with the most time and resources. You also seem to be the only one attempting to gain fame, fortune and I’m still not convinced that your not recieiving “something” for spending all this time on sites, on the phone, writing these letters, visiting Atlanta and all the other things you claim to do at no charge or no reward.
1st amendment: I’ve offered a differing opinion, that is all. You are slandering the Jan-Pro name, you are slandering and defaming the literally thousands of owner/operators that are currently in the system, making money, cleaning contracts on a nightly basis.
1st amendment: I’m going to keep reviewing this site and when I see/feel that you are going too far, I’m going to counter you.
1st amendment: When you get your day in court, you will lose. When you lose, then maybe you’ll join me in reforming the industry as it should be done for everyone.
1st amendment: Just because I didn’t know about Webster the other day, doesn’t mean I can’t do research and find out the “players” and find out what their backgrounds are and when they got into the business and how.
Well Jerry if you did that then I would not say it is a rip off. Unfortunately, there are many many bad apples in the bunch. I myself also would not mind owning a Master Franchise. I would not rip people off. The fact is that there are many many many bad Master Franchises so the easiest way to help people not get robbed is to call rip off. Jan Pro in my area is a rip off. Could it be changed and at least a decent fair oppurtunity…sure.. But it is the way it is and it is a poor oppurtunity. If I knew of a good Master Franchisor I’d say ‘Hey Jan Pro is pretty much a rip off but investing with this guy is OK’ unfortunately I do not know of and have not heard of a single one yet. So a way to save people money I to let them know chances are they are going to get ripped off..because chances are they are going too. I know you like to pick on Jerry 1st ammendment. Maybe he’s overzeolous, repetitive, uneducated, bitter, etc but I assure you he’s just a guy who got screwed who decided to take up a cause and fight for what he thinks right the way he knows how. Maybe he’s not doing it the way he should, maybe its not the professional way, mature way, educated way but at least he’s speaking up. Regardless if you want to believe it or not today chances are Jan Pro will rip you off. In the future could it be reigned in and operated the way its supposed to and not be a rip off…absolutely. I invested because the concept could work. Unfortunately, the Master franchises just screw people. So until Jan Pro International reigns in their masters and somehow takes responsibility to make the model work the ethcal way..the way it was originally intended… it is a rip off and people do not deserve to have their hopes and money taken. It takes some people a long time to save 950 dollars and its bull shit that some Master Franchise with a net worth of a million dollars will screw them out of it. Can Jan Pro not be a rip off..sure… But today it is a rip off.
I said I started with 200. You don’t need workmans comp until you actually have an account to work at, you don’t need to payroll taxes until you pay somebody, checklist, contracts, etc.. Microsoft Office. I didn’t buy my employees cars. But I also didn’t mislead them. They knew they were getting an 8-11 dollar an hour job. I made money from them honestly.. I didn’t screw them, mislead them. Or rob them. You’ve never delt with this company as a unit franchisee so how you can basically call us all liars is beyond me. Do you think all these different people are just making this up? You are actually helping this site keep people from investing in Jan Pro though. You are stirring up activity so when people think of buying a franchise and type jan pro complaints in google this site pops right up at the top. Then people read it and see everyone complaining except for you (the guy who has never owned a franchise). So people should thank Jerry for making the message more prominent on the web. In a perfect world jan pro would operate the way its supposed too. Heck communism would work perfectly to and none of us would have to worry about a thing. Unfortunately no matter what you say, or how you reason it Jan Pro screws people. With that I am forever leaving this site because I’ve voiced my opinion and people could listen to the 100s of us who say we got screwed or you who…???…oh yea nothing..no success, no failure because you aren’t even involved.
Joe A: Your welcome, sometimes it takes activity to make change happen. Honest discussions should always happen, that way resolution has a path to travel to and from.
You, 1st amendment and others have voiced only one side of the facts as they are. You may have a legitimate gripe, never said you, 1st amendment and others didn’t. Simply stated that it can’t all be “one sided”
If the “lackeys” at Jan-Pro had an opinion of me, they would “hate me”, they would state that I’m out for their jobs, I guess I am in a matter of speaking, you can’t simply “get a paycheck” when what you are getting/how you are getting that paycheck is on the backs of disgruntled owner/operators. I love this business, I’ve been in this for over 25 years, it hurt me when an employee of mine had an unfavorable opinion of me right or wrong, it hurts me to see and read and hear about the owner/operators that have been mishandled, mistreated and truly are under represented.
I don’t fault you, 1st amendment and others for expressing your opinions based upon certain facts. But you all keep forgetting that what I said in the very first “opinion”. You can’t throw out the baby with the bath water!!!! You have made blanket statments, you have made “slanderous”, “faulty”, “not 100% accurate” remarks about Jan-Pro, Jani-King and other owner/operator systems.
I am truly hoping that a “calm”, “cool”, “level headed” person reads all of your, mine and others remarks and see’s and verifies that there is a problem and a resolution to the problem.
I hate lawyers, only one’s that win in lawsuits is lawyers. Look at “big tobacco” lawsuits if you think differently.
You are right, 1st amendment needs to “clean up” his speech, release the ties to his attorney via promoting his attorney’s website, not call everyone “stupid”, “on crack cocaine”, “full of monkey dung”, just because they have a different side to the “same story”. His argument would hold more water.
As far as “success or failure”, let’s see how this goes. Maybe, just maybe, some/all of what I proposed on this site ends up getting to “the big boys” and they actually do right by all owner/operators and that the “masters” realize how valuable all of you current and past owner/operators are.
As written the model would work if it wasn’t taken advantage of, bent, and twisted. I initially believed that. That’s why I invested. But that’s not how its playing out in the real world. So until there is over sight and it is run properly I will continue to tell anyone who listens its a rip off. And ultimately I still think you better off going solo.
Wow! I have been wanting to get involved with JAN PRO for MANY YEARS. Just made my initial appointment, but thought I would check the web for complaints…and boy did I find them…Is there anyone out there that is a happy franchisee of JAN PRO…I mean really I need to know…I have really always wanted to take this chance…I am very motivated and persistent, I don’t want to get involved with a franchise that is a dead end!
I keep thinking all I need is a lift into the business and I can market to get my own accounts? Is this not a good idea?
To jerry from Indiana ???
1. I’am not the only person on this fight nor any kind of dog. I’m simply your average American standing up for himself.
2. Don’t forget about the ladies in Connecticut who came out on TV and Exposed jan-pro. They have a big group who came out because they got ripped-off.
3. Don’t forget about the group in New Jersey who were picketing in front of jan-pros offices. They also have a large group.
4. There is also another very large group out there who is about to take legal action.
5. Don’t forget about Climaco Guzman, I could go on.
6. You accuse me of fame and fortune. Here you go again simply attacking me again. I would never ever want that. However what I find very strange is that you say that you are no longer with jan-pro but everyday you constantly attack me. Could it be that you might have lots to loose?
7. You said that I visited Atlanta ??? I have never been to Atlanta.
8. I’m tacking action because I don’t want to see anymore people hurt by jan-pro.
I have heard some very horific stories and I can’t just sit down and do nothing.
9. I’m not slandering I’m simply telling the truth. However you have been defaming me and spreading lies about me.
10. You said the following = “1st amendment: I’m going to keep reviewing this site and when I see/feel that you are going too far, I’m going to counter you“. What you said sounds exactly how jan-pro threatens people.
11. We have a lot of evidence, very strong hard evidence and witnesses. I guarantee you that when you hear this evidence that you will be shocked! We will win this case.
To Sonja,
Please dont allow what you are reading here to deter you from pursuing and goal or dream that you have set for yourself. There is a great difference of opinion here, as well as truths, half truths, and outright lies. No one can tell you what you should do, but if you are looking for some guided advice allow this to be a summary for you.
If your desire is to become truly FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT of a full-time job, etc , and maintin a comfortable level of control over your business affairs and direction that you want to take to build and establish yourself then I would strongly advise against a investment in Jan-Pro or any other cleaning franchise. If you have some knowledge of Profit & Loss and can develop strong financial plans for your business and then manage those plans to develop the bottom line, you shouldnt invest. If you dont mind doing true ‘legwork’ to bring in new revenue and can handle rejection well, you shouldnt invest. If you are (or can afford to hire someone) strong in the operations side of the business (hiring, training, scheduling, etc) you shouldnt invest. If you can build and maintain positive and successful business rapport with potential clients, do not invest.
IF you can follow-up and follow through when things go wrong, do not invest.
If you can perform the aforementioned with any degree of ease, then there is no point to giving your money, control, and santity to someone who will, but only for a hefty premium. You should consider a relationship with Jan-Pro similar to the one between a Movie Star and his/her agent. THEY BASICALLY PERFORM AS YOUR BUSINESS MANAGER UNDER THE GUISE OF A “FRANCHISED BUSINESS”. There are obviously some benefits to such an arrangement, however as it pertains to this circumstance, a situation where mutually beneficial business relationship is established is NON-EXISTENT!!
I dont agree that it rises to the point of fraud, theft, etc, however there is abuse in the system (as in any), and one based soley on self enrichment will exploit the contract language to his/her benefit. I strongly believe that the ones that suffer the greatest in this system are the ones that have not prepared or educated themselves to become a business owner/operator.
If you are comfortable with allowing someone else to control or dictate your future then you will be fine. I understand that everyone wants something different from this, so there isnt just a single approach to your inquiry. If you just want to pay a few bills or have a little kick around money then go with Jan-Pro. They will allow you the fastes ROI possible with minimum frills (initially). If you are smart, you get in, get what you need, and get out before the shit hits the fan and you have to see the ugly side of things; but if you are a true operator with the guts for the higher risk with higher returns, be INDEPENDENT and avoid the added stress of another hand to pay and mouth to satisfy.
There are people who I am sure are doing well with Jan-Pro, but that is often just an illusion because 21-23% off the top and fees for acquiring new business will allow for a very small profit margin (if any). With labor being your single biggest (and hopefully budgeted) expense, plus taxes, insurance, supples, overhead it will be hard to reach and maintain profitability under the brand in your initial years. Not to say its not possible, but definitely not worth it if you have a alternative.
Major Franchises such as Jan-Pro only account for about 30% of the total revenues generated in this industry. Factor in the fact that contracts are always changing hands, means that there is still great benefit in being a independent operator.
AGAIN IF YOUR GOALS ARE LONG TERM, there is no harm in doing it yourself and your initial investment will be a fraction of what Jan-Pro requires. Your customers belong to YOU, NO ONE will take credit for your hard work, and NO ONE can take anything from you (but your competitor!).
Dont Let them fool you with we TRAIN you or WE ARE NATIONAL!!
The training actually sucks! There is nothing really ‘specialized’ about cleaning or their “processes” or “systems”. Its just marketing!!! Get DVD’s, YouTube, Books, ISSA. You’d get a lot more for a lot less.
I joined Jan-Pro because I believed that they did have an edge on bigger accounts. Again, all hype. I have never been offered a account over 400 after being in a resonable period of time, and of recent, the billings have become absolutely horrendous! I talking money that doesnt cover travel expenses per month, let alone a salary, taxes, supplies, and some profit!!
The master owners I deal with seem to give higher priority to the bigger franchise fee check than the person eager to grow and willing to work within the system for the benefit of the customer. Actually since they took my down payment, it seems like it has to take an act of god to evoke a response from them regarding critical issues concerning my development as a franchisee.
Operations Managers. PLEASE DONT GET ME STARTED!! I feel if you are going to deal in customer service for a living, you should at least be PRESENTABLE, and able to carry on a conversation free of street slang and other yibberish!!! They are very quick to get in front of your customer to divert direct communication between you and your client. THE ONLY POSSIBLE MOTIVATION FOR DOING THIS IS TO CATCH YOU ON A BAD DAY TO PULL THAT CUSTOMER RIGHT FROM UNDER YOU!!!! BEWARE OF THE SNEAKY BASTARDS!! THEY MUST HAVE A QUOTA FROM THE OFFICE!! I SMELL OPS MANAGER!!!!! They are supposed to be your lifeline and first line of defense in times of trouble, but are often used as pawns by the master owner with cruel intentions and they have been of little value and resource during my time as a franchisee
1st amendment: You say that a “countering opinion” is a threat to you personally, I find that odd since your “screen name” should mean that all opinions are wanted, needed and that everyone has a right given by god to express those opinions free of prosecution!!!
1st amendment: Noticed you actually used proper format and didn’t call me and the others on here “full of monkey dung”, “on crack cocaine” and other insulting statements. BRAVO!!!! You actually sound more reasonable and because of that, I actually agree with you.
1st amendment: What do I have to lose? I’ve been in this industry for over 25 years, I love this business with all my heart. It literally kills me when I hear, see and read about the stories that you are talking about. It pains me deeply. I personally saw many of the same issues you and others have described during my short time at Jan-Pro. I was truly embarassed, I was truly mad, I was truly PISSED OFF!!!! However, that’s when I found out that there is a major “flaw” in the operating and oversight system and relationship between corporate Jan-Pro and that of the corporation holding the “Master license”.
Jan-Pro International as a whole is a good company, full of good people. Though I still say the person and some of his leiutenants at the “top of the food chain” are only there for the paycheck and do not truly care about the business as a whole, nor the people affected at the bottom.
Jan-Pro International needs to take the company through the “wringer” in a way, they need to “break down” the weaker Master Owners that are not running their business the way it was intended. They need to take huge oversight control of those Masters, get them out of the business as quickly as possible. They need to arrange sale of those Masters (yes, despite your statements and those of the others posting here, there are numerous Masters that on the “whole” are running their operations the way they are supposed to) to those doing things correctly and that have the correct “moral compass” in their lives.
There needs to be reform in the owner/operator industry as a whole, but when I see what I see, when I hear what I hear, when I compare Jan-Pro to Coverall, Jani-King and some of the others, I believe they can still be the best of the three major players!!!
Sonja: Investigate your choices thoroughly. There is plenty of information for you to form your own opinion located in the FDD and the UFOC. I encourage you to call all of the current/former owner/operators listed. If you don’t reach at least 50% of them and speak with them personally about Jan-Pro, call that Masters Office and verify the numbers listed.
I truly believe in the Owner/Operator system, especially for those just starting out, what they forget to tell you is the costs “upfront” that you must have in order to get “your business” started on its own. From marketing materials, to insurance, to equipment, to training on your own etc… Also, a “name” is extremely valuable in today’s world. Yes, for smaller “$195.00″ per month accounts and less, not so much. But you want a medical facility, a school, a professional office building, then you need a name. They don’t give those to “billy bob’s mop and bucket company”.
Check out your “master owner” thoroughly though, talk with the franchisees as stated, “interview” their Operations and Sales Team, if a “master owner” isn’t proud of his “staff” then he/she “wont show them off”. Remember, a large part of your “investment” is directly in the hands of those people. Sales to get the work for you/on your behalf and Operations to assist you in keeping that work.
Good Luck and Good Choosing no matter which way you go.
A believer: I am truly sorry that your “masters” aren’t concerned about your growth, that is unfortunate for sure. I don’t understand why, when you actually “break things down” you need to have proper balance when you run a master operation. You will always need an “influx” of new owner/operators to keep yourself and staff “fresh”. But you need some “stallions” to drive the engine. Those “stallions” are the existing owner/operators that want to grow their business and take it to new levels.
Part of the problem with the “masters” in place, they weren’t trained themselves properly. They can’t see past the “franchise cash” in order to look at “big picture”. They get in the habit of having continual money flowing in, which is a short term “fix” to their problems. Long term solutions come with long term commitments which is where the “notes” come into play for/with existing owners coming to grow their businesses. A properly run Master must have/should have both types of revenue and that revenue “stream” must be done in a reasonable and responsible manner. 5X and 4X multipliers are ridiculous!!! They are harmful and they aren’t necessary. See my earlier post about reforms needed to see the multipliers as they should be done.
You are right about the Operations Managers. They are encouraged to fine, they are encouraged to transfer, they are encouraged to find issues that cause problems for the owner/operators. This is not the proper role for Operations. Operations is supposed to Train, Support and Service the owner/operators, they aren’t supposed to be the “enemy”. However, Operations is also responsible to the customer, they do have a role in making sure the owner/operators are performing their tasks correctly and that the customer is happy with them. Operations is to “correct” and “stabilize” the account through the owner/operator envolved in the account, “pulling” should be done as a last resort and only under the correct/proper circumstances.
1st amendment: What’s next. If not reform and compromise, what’s next. Have you thought about the literal thousands of owner/operators that are still in the system and are doing their accounts on a nightly basis. What about the “masters” that are doing a good job that have made an investment and are actually doing things the “right way”. What about those “good people” that I’ve described that work for Jan-Pro International, what about them.
Let’s say you win,( you wont’) you get “class action”, depending on the “terms and conditions” you could actually put Jan-Pro into bankruptcy, so the 100 or so get “something” though most of it/vast majority of it will go to the attorneys. What aobut the 7500 to 10000 owner/opertors that won’t get anything. You seem to forget, that Jan-Pro International, itself isn’t a “huge corporation”. The 100 plus “masters” are larger combined entity than JPI. The contracts are with the masters, the bulk of the franchise cash is with the masters, the bulk of the “multipliers and notes” are with the masters.
I’m not suggesting that your lawsuit by itself is going to cause the “harm” i’ve outlined, but sometimes you need to think of “what’s next” and you need to remember, at the end of the day, there are more people “in the food chain” than out of it.
Make your own mind up, don’t let attorneys dictate what’s right/wrong. If Jan-Pro International won’t meet with you and come “clean” with a plan that fixes the problems described and won’t listen to reason, then make contact with Webster directly. They are investors, they’ve got major skin in the game and they want/need this to stop sooner than later.
You don’t think attorneys win in this situation, forget about the thousands they are getting in fees, look at the publicity garnered by them, before you barely heard of some of these people, now they are on news programs, online seminars, writing pamphlets and manuals, upgrading their websites, doing interviews for web, print and television media. You trying to tell me they aren’t in it for the fame and money?
Find common ground, reach out to JPI and Webster one more time. Don’t feel comfortable doing it by yourself, then do it through your attorney, order him/her to attempt one last time.
To jerry from Indiana
1. The difference between you and me is that I was ripped-off and I have the proof. I saw first hand what jan-pro did to me and other people. We have the proof. I speak the truth and you come in here and make things up and lie about me and that is wrong. You defame me. Besides I have never told the administrator to kick you out, like you have said he should do to me. If jan-pro wouldn’t of ripped-me off I wouldn’t be posting here. However didn’t you say that you are no longer with jan-pro, however you come in here every day and attack me , make things up and lie about me.
2. Don’t act so innocent you called me so many dirty names and defamed me constantly that I lost count.. Also you didn’t get ripped-off like I was. I did. I wont say bravo until jan-pro stops ripping people off.
3. You say that you were mad at the way jan-pro was doing business but then it seems like you switch it around and say that they are a good company. Here is were you are very WRONG! Here is why, I have received calls from people complaining from almost every state that jan-pro does business in. You say that they need to breakdown the weaker master owners this would mean the whole company because I’m getting calls from almost every state jan-pro operates in. Besides corporate is responsible for the whole thing and they are also the biggest problem. They started the system and responsibility falls on them. Again I have had calls from almost every state jan-pro does business in and every call that I have gotten people tell me that they know of a lot of people that are also getting ripped-off.
4. Again you are wrong jan-pro is not the better of the other two. All three of them are just as bad. There all running a Ponzi Scheme!
Jerry:
Please send me contact information for “Webster” – I will be happy to send them some of my information.
In regards to your questions, my standing is one that my termination was in violation of public policy.
Yes, I have information that most do not; I have witnessed things most will not see. And yes, it is my intention to use that information against the owner. In my case its personal not business.
The non-compete, (even considering the “Sunbelt” decision), is worded in a way that it will not be enforcable in Illinois on numerous grounds.
Change is coming, it will just take some time.
1st amendment: No common ground with you is there? I go back to a reasonable man realizes when there needs to be negotiation and when the overall good for the many outweigh the few.
1st amendment: It is obvious you don’t care abou the thousands of current owner/operators in the system, cleaning facilities on a nightly basis. You keep harping on the “past ones” and forgetting about the current one’s. When you disregard those in the system currently, you lose validity in your argument.
Defamation, when? Do you even know what that word means? Someone comes in this site and turns it upside down with reasonable talk, reasonable propositions, atttacks the fact that you are constantly “pimping” your attorneys name, website and then questions the fact you may/may not be getting something in return?
You claim there are no good master owners, all of Jan-Pro International employee’s are thieves, all master owners have stolen, committed fraud, lied to, decieved you and others and no one counters your statements until me. So what do you do, you call me names, you claim I’m on “crack”, you claim “I know nothing”, you claim “i’m full of monkey dung” etc… It language like that, statements like that, that I questioned the “oversite” by the administrator and my comment was as follows ” I wonder why he allows 1st amendment to get away with things that the rest of us would probably be in trouble for?”
You keep going down the same paths over and over again, you claim you are the “victim”, you have no fault at all in what happened to you, you were “unintelligent” when you read the FDD, you were “forced” to sign the contract, you were at no fault when you had your accounts taken, your accounts that were taken were “underbid”, you stated that the “corporate entity” is to blame for all your ills, your loss. Someone offers a differing opinion, shows where your lawsuit will be “ripped to shreds” and yet you still don’t listen. Sad really, you have an opportunity to truly do good, yet you only care about yourself and a few disgruntled owner/operators.
Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager: Trust me, I fully understand where you are coming from. I truly was very “disgusted”, “discouraged”, “pissed”, “disappointed” and “hurt” when I left Jan-Pro myself. I left well before I would have been terminated, it is very upsetting when you see the things that you see, hear the things that you hear, witness the lack of respect given to the owner/operators which I truly do see as “investors” and when you bring those facts up to the “higher authority”and they do nothing, say nothing, question your motives and your honesty.
At the same time, there are things you were trusted with that could not/should not be revealed and as long as the paid you what you were owed, in my opinion they deserve that “respect”. Of course, that is voided if something was “illegal” then you have an obiligation to turn your information over to the proper authorities.
I wish you well in your endeavors, if you wish to find out information on Webster they have a website full of information including names, phone numbers, emails etc…
Jerry:
I fully intend on giving the master owner the same “respect” he has shown me and others.
I could not find a web site for Webster, if possible could you provide it.
Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager: it’s http://www.webstercapital.com
good luck with your endeavors
1st amendment, Jerry “V”, LoveAmerica or other screen name you are going by today:
What happened, didn’t have a good enough come back on the issues that I raised in concern to your lawsuit envolving, Jan-Pro, Coverall, Jani-King. What about the law firm you are “pimping” for, waiting on a response from them to send?
Let’s review for a moment in regards to the “basics” of your lawsuit:
1. FDD and UFOC: Too difficult to understand, was too unintelligent to gaither, even with those facts, I still gave Jan-Pro $5,000.00 of my hard earned money because they “held a gun to my head”, “forced me to sign”, “on medication” and/or “wanted to/needed to blame someone else for my failure”.
2. Account status: They were too far underbid. Not only that, they took my “too far underbid accounts from me without warning”. So because I was too busy complaining about Jan-Pro on at least 10 different websites, “pimping” my attorney’s all over the place, decided it was best to get into different business all together.
3. Jan-Pro committed fraud, decieved me, violated RICO statues etc… Of course, can’t prove any of that, just wanted to make the “charge” because its more serious than the actual “fact”
4. All Master Franchisors across the country are thieves, they committed FRAUD, THEY STOLE, can’t remember all the rest, just know it was terrible. Of course the only one that you have any “direct dealings with” is the one you should have any “standing” on. Because of your previous statements, wondering how much of that is true.
5. Going to put Jan-Pro out of business. Still cleaning several thousand accounts each day, still have 7500 to 10,000 unit franchisees (your figure, my figure)
Just wondering what happened to you, having a withdrawl. Must need more “crack cocaine” or “monkey dung” in my life.
To j from Indiana ? To your June 15th responce
1. You say that I have no common ground? You yourself said the following:
““ I truly was very “disgusted”, “discouraged”, “pissed”, “disappointed” and “hurt” when I left Jan-Pro myself. I left well before I would have been terminated, it is very upsetting when you see the things that you see, hear the things that you hear, witness the lack of respect given to the owner/operators which I truly do see as “investors” and when you bring those facts up to the “higher authority”and they do nothing, say nothing, question your motives and your honesty.””
Even you admit that there is no negotiating with jan-pro! Also there is not a few people getting ripped-off you know that there is thousands.
You said that you left before they terminated you, can you tell us why they were going to terminate you?
2. You say that I don’t care about the current people who work a fake franchise with jan-pro. Again you make things up. I know of people right now who want to leave because there accounts are so badly underbid that they make less than minimum wage. They have told me that they would leave but that jan-pro will come after them for more money. I talked to women who have cried because they wanted to leave jan-pro because they were making less than minimum wage and jan-pro wouldn’t let them leave. It was sad because she had to work months for free so that she could finally leave. Hey j from Indiana would you like to talk to her???
3. Yes you have defamed me, slandered me, and told lies about me. You accuse me of wanting blood and called me dirty names and then you call my attorneys Pimps. You have threatened to follow me on the internet and you tried to get the administrator to kick me out. Is that what jan-pro thought you to do?
4. The reason I have put my attorneys website is because so many people that got ripped-off want to come forward. It’s not easy finding franchise law attorneys. When I was still working for jan-pro and I would go to pick up my check at the end of the month I would always see people outside talking. They always looked Mad and some very Sad. They would talk about how jan-pro was ripping them off and that they needed to get together and find an attorney to see what they could do.
5. When you lie and you say that I want fame you lie. Then you threaten me and say that you are going to follow me on the internet. Then you try and get the administrator to kick me out. Then you lie and say that I don’t care about other people and then you continue to lie and say that I want Blood and then you call my attorneys Pimps and then you say that the master franchisor that you worked for was good but then you say that you were going to get fired and then you wonder why you sound like a monkey on crack! First you say that the place that you worked for was so great then you say that you were going to get
Fired ??? Which one is it? You say that you were an insider but you don’t even know how many fake franchises jan-pro has or had or how many Thousands left. You say that you would never buy a fake unit franchise from jan-pro but you try and get other people to buy one. You say that you are no longer with jan-pro but you are here everyday constantly attacking me, I wonder why?
6. Again it’s not a few people who got ripped-off. It’s thousands around the country. How dare you call them disgruntled. If you or anybody in your family got ripped-off you to would be mad and you wouldn’t be saying disgruntled. For your information jan-pros attorneys agreed that the contract is very hard to understand and they said that you should get an attorney. Ask yourself why would jan-pro make something so hard to understand? You know why don’t you? Why do they make something so complicated when we are going to be cleaning, vacuuming, throwing out the trash, sweeping and moping. You want to blame me for getting ripped-off. You want to make the victims into the bad people. I was told that I would make $25.00 Dollars an hour, I was told that they had great training, I was told that my business would grow. It was Fraud, Deceit and Misrepresentation. You say that our lawsuit will be ripped to shreds and I say that by the time we present all of our evidence it will singe the hair off a monkeys rear.
To someone who calls himself jerry ? Who says that he is from Indiana ?
This is in response to his post on June 16 th
1. You wonder why I call you a dirty little monkey who throws his poo at the wall just to try and see what sticks at the wall. You were crying and jumping up and down and telling me that I should take action and show proof that I was taking legal action against jan-pro. You attacked me and you TOLD me that I should PUT UP or SHUT UP. You told me that I should put my neck out there and to either show PROOF that I was taking legal action or to shut up. You wanted proof and you wanted me to show court houses and you wanted me to show case numbers and you wanted me to show Dates and documents filled. Then you kept posting it over and over and over again. So I say no problem I can send you a copy of the complaint / Lawsuit paperwork. I tell you to go to complaints board.com and that you can find my e-mail address there. You can e-mail me and I would e-mail you back the documents. However you wouldn’t do it. You wont do it except change the conversation. You want the proof and I offer it to you and then you change the conversation! You then change the subject and you start to say that I just want to sue and that I want fame and you called my attorneys pimps.
It seems to me like you are very confused. First you say that I should take legal action and that I should either put up or shut up and then you ask me for proof of the lawsuit. Other wise you tell me to shut up. Then when I prove it to you that I’m taking legal action you do a 360 change and then you say that all I want to do is sue. Then you say that I’m only looking for blood and fame and you call my attorneys pimps. Which one is it make up your mind.
You keep calling my attorneys Defamatory names and you keep Slandering them. For your information when I used to go to the jan-pro office to pick up my paycheck. I would always see people outside talking. They always looked very sad or very mad. They said that they were getting ripped-off. We started exchanging phone numbers and we decided that we needed help. We needed to do something because we could no longer take the abuse from jan-pro. We decided to get together and have a meeting. When we did we concluded that we had no other option than to look for legal help. We all started to look for attorneys. We looked at different attorneys and we decided to go with the ones we have now. We asked them to please help us. So you need to stop your Defamatory and Slandering remarks towards our attorneys
2. You know very well that the FDD is very confusing hard to understand and Deceitful. It’s just like trying to read Tax Code.
A. Jan-pros attorneys agreed that the contract is very hard to understand. Even they told me that you should get an attorney to read it to you. These were jan-pros attorneys saying this. Ask yourself this if we are simply cleaning buildings why do they need to make something so hard to understand and so complicated to the point that you need to hire an attorney to translate it to you?
B. Bernie Madof ripped-off a lot of Rich and Powerful Smart people. He got away with his scam for many, many years. I was made promises and those promises were lies. Deceit and Fraud just like Bernie Madof used on other people.
C. The Attorney General in Maryland warns about cleaning franchisors and the FTC does the same thing. A few years ago the FTC Fined a few different cleaning franchisors each $100,000 because they failed to disclose important information on there FDD.
3. They did commit Fraud they told me that I would get accounts that would pay me $25.00 Dollars an hour and that was a lie they paid less than minimum wage. They did deceive me. I’m not an attorney but I do feel that they are in violation of the Rico and Racketeering Acts, I feel that there is enough evidence to prove the violation of the Rico and Racketeering Acts. Even a judge said that the way a cleaning franchisor was doing business was like a modified ponzi scheme.
4. Like I said before people from 25 Different states have called me including Canada. Some have picketed jan-pro some have exposed jan-pro on television and some have appeared on magazines and newspaper articles and all have been from different states and parts of the country. Almost every state were jan-pro does business I have received calls from. Every person that has called me has also told me that they know of a lot of people who are getting ripped-off.
5. What you forgot to mention is that most of those are probably the smallest package. However more important is how many thousands have left jan-pro.
6. Don’t worry if I don’t post on here every day it just means I have been busy but I will never stop this struggle for justice.
1st amendment, Jerry V. or Iloveamerica, The problem with you as the “front man” for your attorneys is your consistent meandering around the facts. You get some right, most wrong and you continually lose the validity or “standing” of your argument.
1. Never called your attorneys “pimps”. Accused you of “pimping” for your attorneys. Though I did state, I felt your attorney’s were out to “line” their own pockets, gain fame, care little about you or the thousands of current owner/operators.
2. You really don’t care about the “thousands” of current owner/operators, because when I gave you a scenario to “play out”, you didnt answer, still haven’t answered “what’s next”.
3. Never said “My Master Owner” was a good one. Stated that their were “good one’s” one’s that were doing “right” by their owner/operators, doing “right” by their customers and doing “right” by the Jan-Pro name. Mine was a “joke”, he wasn’t as bad as some, but he didn’t love this business, didn’t/doesn’t understand the importance of the owner/operator as a whole. Reason I was about to be/possibly be “terminated”, was for numerous owner/opertor violations that he had committed, jeopordizing accounts due to having a family member, known to have felony convictions “in charge” of operations. (in other words, if the customers had found out this individual had access to their alarm codes, keys to their facilities etc… that would have been a terminatable offense and the owner/operators could have lost those accounts without doing anything wrong). He also committed other acts/violations that was/should have been “sacred ground” in concern to owner/operator and “master” relationship.
4. I have been consistent in my criticism of Jan-Pro International and the “lackies” in charge of it. They don’t care about this business as a whole, they certainly don’t care about the owner/operators as a whole and they have caused most of the problems associated with these lawsuits. You can’t “hate” the business, “dislike” the people performing the work for the business and do nothing about “masters” that are clearly “out of control”.
However, to say all employee’s of Jan-Pro International are thieves, uncaring, etc… is totally incorrect. I have met several of them, had “dealings” with some of them, found them to be competent, caring, hard working people. To say that all “master owners” are thieves, liers, deceitful etc… is equally as wrong.
In regards to “your issues”. For you to “take” someone’s word and invest $5000.00 of your hard earned money that you would make $25.00 per hour in the “cleaning business” shows you didn’t want to or care to do your homework. No such animal ever existed in the “cleaning business” , only time you make that kind of money is on “special services” such as pressure washing, window washing, floor cleaning, carpet cleaning etc… Even on a “good bid”, you make 16 to 18 maximum.
The FDD is what it is, my statement still stands though, if I didn’t understand something, I would give it to someone else, an attorney, an accountant, someone smarter than me to read. You still didn’t have to sign, no one was there with a gun, twisted your arm, threatened your family if you didn’t sign. You had “freedom” to walk away. You didn’t, you signed without reservation and because you did, you had an obligation to do/abide by the rules of that contract.
The UFOC part, must have updated information on all franchisees currently doing business with the master, those no longer doing business and any/all lawsuits that are envolved at the time of signing. If you couldn’t reach the majority of those, then I would have requested and updated list, if they couldn’t provide, then I would have walked away. If the UFOC was not proper, then you have a right to sue, based upon that.
Forgive me for not knowing “who” you were when I first started “writing” here. I will fully admit, you have put “your money” where “your mouth is” in regards to suing Jan-Pro. But my question was then, still is now, what’s next. I believe that all you want is to gain fame, little fortune (probably won’t even get your investment back) and you still haven’t thought about anyone else. You still believe everything at Jan-Pro is bad, I disagree, though changes need to be made, though issues need to be resolved, I still believe that for “some” people a unit franchise is a good investment. Even a “life changing” investment, not to the degree of 100% financial independence, but for those people that want to put a child through college, that want to purchase their 1st home, for those that want to purchase a newer car, for those that want stable supplemental income, for those that want an “investment” that will continue through their “golden years”. This is it. If handled, supported and done correctly.
You claim to “have proof”, well you should have shown that “proof” by now to the Jan-Pro lawyers, if you had “anything” that they felt uncomfortable with, they would have initiated settlement talks, like Jani-King and Coverall have at different times. Granted attorney’s can be arrogant, but when representing a corporation with “stock holders” or in this case “equity partner”, they usually “air” on the side of caution and want to “dispose” of matters such as these quickly and quietly. That should say something to you and to your attorney’s.
In closing, I feel for the owner/operators having to work “with” master owners such as the one I worked for, I feel for the owner/oprators that were “mislead” and were “mistreated” and my heart has and will continue to “go out” to them. However, I feel you are in this “fight” for a different reason, you don’t want to “reform or change” this situation, you want “blood and vengence”, you don’t want to make things better for the majority, you want to make things better for the few, you don’t want to do “right” by the thousands of hard working, classy owner/operators that are working in their accounts day/night in and out now providing quality service and have made just as much investment or even larger than you did, you want what you and your attorneys want and that’s “fame”, possible “fortune” and notority. I have no problem with that other than you need to “come clean” and admit that.
In other words, “give up” on any financial award, cover attorney’s fees only and go for “reforming” the industry as a whole. You won’t, your attorney’s won’t, so call this what it is, “out for yourself and a few”.
Finally, you keep harping on the “thousands” that have left Jan-Pro, who cares how many have left, what’s that got to do with anything? Some left in “our group” simply because they moved, one went back to Africa, one moved to Arizona, one other moved to Illinois, granted, some left because they didn’t want to do this any more, but even with all of that, we had no more than 10% turnover in a year’s time.
I don’t think there are “thousands” that have left, unless you are looking at “total numbers” since Jan-Pro was founded. Your attorney’s can request that information, but you could only get it for the last couple of years. Before that, it was “in house” or with the “masters” only, I doubt they even tracked it.
1st amendment, Jerry “v” or iloveamerica,
Getting tired of the same old “crap” spewing from your writings. In closing comments, let me give you some “predictions”.
1. Jury will find Jan-Pro “not guilty” on the following subjects:
a) Misclassification of employee’s. There will be no proof that any harm has been done by Jan-Pro against the Owner/Operators in question.
b) FDD, though it may be difficult for any “non-lawyer” to understand, there was ample time, ample opportunity for you and the other Owner/Operators to take to a professional, attorney, accountant or significant other to advise.
c) Accounts “underbid”, don’t even see how this is relevant, but in all honesty, Jan-Pro will/can offer literally dozens of professionals with many impressive credentials to speak to the “underbid” allegations, again, it will be not guilty.
d) “Stealing” your “underbid” accounts from you, bet you a dime to a dollar they have paperwork, copies of emails, statements from yours and other customers justifying the pulling of the accounts.
e) Deception/Fraud, your word against theirs, you state they told you, you would earn $25.00 per hour cleaning commercial accounts, guarantee if they said anything close to this, it was as follows” If you handle things correctly, flow your work, train yourself and/or your people, you have the “potential” of earning up to $25.00 per hour”. Much different story, doubt anything close to $25.00 per hour was ever mentioned even in California.
f) RICO and Racateering charges, proof not there, charges made without full knowledge by you, doubt any of your attorneys that you are “pimping for” even came close to saying that in a court of law.
You say you spoke to dozens, then hundreds and now it’s thousands, of owner/operators both current and former. No wonder you can’t/don’t respond to my various legitimate questions.
If I were a Jan-Pro attorney, I would love to have you on the stand. You don’t know what to say, how to say it and in all honesty, you are too emotional, too unprofessional and you “say too much”!!!!!!!
Maybe one day, you’ll wake up and realize what I’ve been saying all along is true, and your attorney’s will realize there is nothing there and before they lose all credit with the court system, judge and the owner/’operators they claim to have “best interests” for, they will sit down and work out a reasonable settlement which includes proper oversight and reform.
Jerry:
Some of what you mention in your 1 a-f statement is true.
However, some are wrong.
EVERYONE should use caution in any agreement.
Learn how to operate this type of business on your own. Many have side businesses that are doing well.
Semper Fi
Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager.
Absolutely, no one should enter into any “financial” relationship without verification, fact finding, due dilligence etc…. Would you or I buy a car unseen, would we sign the financial or financing agreements if left blank by the dealer, would we “trust” that everything the dealer told us about the car was true without checking it out, test driving it, going to Car Fax etc…. If we would do at least that for a “car”, shouldn’t we do at least that for a financial arrangement equal too or greater than that?
Point being, everyone in a business relationship has a level of responsibility, did Jan-Pro and others do everything perfect, no. But nor did 1st amendment and the people he “lathered up”. Don’t get me wrong, everyone has “fault” in this, including the attorney’s who are only in it for $$$$$$$$$. They don’t give a “rats rump” what happens to these people, what happens to these companies etc… all they care about is $$$$$$$$.
Thanks for your comments, I hope everything goes well for you in your endeavors.
Jerry, there absolutely are markets that the going rate is between 22 and 25 dollars per hour for cleaning services.
Jason,
There very well may be, but few and far between, I’ve owned, managed, regional vice president for companies East of the Mississippi. You might also be talking about “195.00″ per month for once per week cleaning, but you will never find that rate for a 5X, 6X or 7X per week cleaning. I’ve been with two owner/operator companies, one “regional developer company”, my own company was a “traditonal cleaning company”, I also was the Regional Manager for two “national companies” one based in New York, one based in Dallas.
This is in response to someone who calls himself jerry ?? From Indiana ??
To his post on June 23
Like I have told you before we were ripped-off, we were lied to, we were deceived and they used missrepresentfull tactics to take our money. A Judge recently said that the way a cleaning franchisor does business is like a Modified Ponzi Scheme. If Bernie Madoff was able to rip-off the rich and powerful and there attorneys then jan-pro was able to do it to us.
In a recent article on the website Franchisetimes.com the article “Franchise Litigation Started Out With A Bang” by Meredeth Barzen she wrote that when a franchisor looses a lawsuit they get mad and tell there Lawyer to write the right language on the new contracts that way next time the franchisor can rip-off the franchisee. So from the beginning we know that jan-pro was already planning bad business practices.
You try and suggest that jan-pro didn’t do everything perfect. That is a very misleading bad example that you suggested. What jan-pro does is not a simple mistake. They are stealing just like a criminal does just like Bernie Madoff. I will repeat they steal accounts and commit Fraud. They steal accounts by telling people that the customer isn’t happy and tell people to turn in the keys or they will get Fined $500.00 Dollars everyday if they don‘t. Then when the person goes back to talk to the customer the customer tells the person that they were very happy with there cleaning. That is Stealing, Theft and part of the Racket that jan-pro is pulling to line there pockets with stolen $$$$$$$.
Then you also try and say that I lathered up people? Here you go again with your mumbo jumbo. Then you get mad when I call you a dirty little monkey who only throws poo at the wall to see what he can sneak in and stick on the wall.
A. First of all I did not start the current National Class Action Lawsuit. This was started by some people who were ripped-off in another state.
B. Are you also going to accuse me of all the other Lawsuits against jan-pro?
C. Are you going to also accuse me of all the other lawsuits that were settled out of court?
D. Are you going to also accuse me of the time jan-pro was exposed on Television? I had nothing to do with that. That was some hard working ladies who got ripped-off and they sent an e-mail to the Television station and that’s when the TV station exposed jan-pro on there station.
If people didn’t get ripped-off there wouldn’t be all of these lawsuits or complaints.
Again you slander and defame our attorneys. You don’t even know our attorneys. They are good people who have families. They stand up for the rights of hardworking people.
Besides jan-pro left us no other option. We tried talking to them but they just wouldn’t listen. They left us no other option than to seek legal help. Did you expect us to not have the help from an attorney and have hundreds of us walk into a courthouse and ask the people at the courthouse for the right kind of paperwork and start a national class action by ourselves? Besides if jan-pro wasn’t ripping-off people they wouldn’t need attorneys to help them with all the lawsuits that they have.
hello all i was thinking bout buying one since i read these i did my reseach and found out all type of franchises are all the same mcdonalds burger king tocobell ect. mcdonals you have a 45000 dollar yearly fee plus 12.5 royalty fee and on top of that all u need between $900000 to $1800000 just to start it up and reququired that 25 percent is payed from you pocket no loans. you need to be practicly a millionair just to make money for example you mcdonals made made $3000000 in one year minus the royalties at 12.5 % (375000) yearly fee($45000) yearly taxes at 25%Wicth its really more since its comercial(750000) General manager ($60000) First Assistant ($30000)
Second Assistant ($23000) Two Swing managers($33000) 2 matniace ($32000)
15 employees at min wage [$7.25](low estimate with one employee working perhour store open 20 hours a day so approximently $791700) electric ($4000)
Heat($6000) water($2000) profit of $848300 still alot of money but this is a high estimate i didn’t put the factor of health care dental vison property insurance theft insurance ect. Say your mcdonalds is in a good location making good money and want to sell mcdonalds will still charge the new buyer th same start up fees you already payed even tho it an established state. so for the people complaining that jan pro would sell the customers you loss to another franhisee all franchises will do the same. and for the people who say that jan pro main frnchiser makes the big buck dont you think all franchises main franchior makes the raelly big bucks yes they do. mcdonalds for example just say there is 100000 mcdoanls franchisee in the world and each is making 3000000 a year the main franchisor will gross $420000000000.
1st amendment:
There you go again, nothing new, nothing or little factual. I outlined area by area how you will lose your lawsuit. You still don’t answer the questions, you still go “site to site” and “cut and paste” garbage.
A) The language used by Judge Young in his ruling, even he “detracted” it by saying “it doesn’t fit here” because of the training, uniforms, ID Badges etc…. provided by Coverall to the prospective owner/operator.
B) You still don’t get it, or don’t care to get it. Your attorneys, like all attorneys are only “in things” for money and/or fame. That’s not slander, that’s a fact. Their business volume has probably doubled, whether they are “good people” or not, is beside the fact, they are in this fight for the money and fame it is bringing them. They really don’t care at the end of the day, “who” wins this fight, they only care about how much money/fame/standing they get in the legal community.
For if they really cared, they would present a list of “reforms” needed to insure that all of the current owner/operators would be able to “satisfy” their needs, they would “settle” for the one’s that were truly “harmed” and they would look to “work” with Jan-Pro, Coverall and Jani-King attorneys to provide a “cleaner and clearer” document that all could “live with”. Have they, no! Will they, no!, Will you, no!
In regards to you personally, let’s say you are a “good person”, which because of how you handle yourself on this “blog” and others, I would at best, say that is a “coin flip”. You would be screaming at the top of your lungs to not only “right” the wrong for the past owner/operators but protect those currently working at the “big three” going to their job sites on a nightly basis, providing quality service, making sure that on a daily basis, their investement is protected.
What do you do, nothing, you don’t take into account those people, you only look at the “former one’s”, not the “current one’s”. You only want “justice” regardless of who it hurts in the process. You think of no one else, but yourself.
I have called you out, I have shown you to be the “lackey” that you are for your attorneys. I have stated repeatidly about how the industry does need reform, I have stated repeatidly that their are bad “master owners”, I have stated repeatidly that the current “executive staff” of Jan-Pro is made up of “un-qualified, un-caring, un-passionate people” and have openly called for their removal. I have shown the “way” for reforming the industry by making some very basic changes in operational and “money” aspects. What have you done but “cut and paste”.
You are no better than the people you claim to be against. You are no better than the attorneys representing you and Jan-Pro who don’t care about the thousands of current and former owner/operators, care about the industry as a whole, who don’t care about true reform.
You are a joke, you are a fraud, you have misrepresented yourself to “hundreds” of people, should I start a national class action suit against you?
well 1st amendment: was that repost to me if so i am sorry say there was a 1000000 mcdonals there is only 23000 in 122 contries but still dont you think mcdonals is doing the same jan- pro is doing
1st amendment:
Amazing, how you keep forgetting anything about “your” responsibilities in the “business model”.
1. You were supposed to go to “your accounts” on a monthly basis and meet with your customers, do a quality control inspection, have that customer sign off on that inspection. Did you do that? Guarantee that you didn’t. So, when you lost your “underbid” customer, was that your fault or Jan-Pro’s. Are you trying to say that you cleaned perfectly every night, that you had no complaints, no issues etc.. Probably not.
2. You were supposed to read the FDD. You had the obligation to check out all of the current and for that matter, former franchisee’s listed in the UFOC. Did you? Probably not.
3. You were supposed to do due dilligence, which includes a basic check of all the facts, the documentation provided to you, you had a minimum of 10 days from the date of presentation to make a decision. Did you do any due dilligence? No or probably not. You go from post to post now, why didn’t you then?
4. You say they “misrepresented” themselves, I gave you examples of what was probably said, but you claim you have it in writing, be interested to see that come up in court. There are very few, jobs that envolve cleaning making $25.00 per hour.
5. You say they took your money, didn’t give you proper support, proper training, proper knowledge of what you were to do. So I gave you the example of when you go and buy a car, you didn’t respond to my simple statement.
6. You keep using Bernie Madoff and his “scheme” as an equal point to what supposidly happened to you and the other “owner/operators”. Let me first state the following: a) Just because someone is rich, doesn’t make them smart. I have met plenty of “rich” in my life, most of them didn’t have enough common sense to “wipe themselves” much less do any due dilligence. b) Most rich do “things” because other “rich people” are doing them, it’s almost like people who go to “dog fights” they do it, because others are doing it and they want to be in that “gangsta” culture. ie…. Michael Vick, did he really need the income of “dog fighting” or was he doing it because he wanted to be “black enough”.
In closing, I hope your “trail” starts soon, I hope you lose, I hope that you lose not because of my personality differences and yours, I hope that you lose so someone with real “clout”, someone with real “problems” and someone with real “solutions” can step forward and do what is right by the vast majority instead of the few.
In regards to your attorneys, if they are such “outstanding people” they should have no problem refunding your money and the others, they should have no problem doing this case on 100% settlement/award basis, they should have no problem forgoing any more interviews, any more webinars, any more editorial posts, any more “advertising” oportunities. Also in regards to your attorneys, since they “know the law” if I’ve said anything “unworthy” or “defaming” or “illegal” they know how to file a lawsuit don’t they?
Let’s see if you can finally answer the questions, let’s see if you can have some facts, let’s see if you can really do something without “cut and paste”. How about an original thought from you!!!
To someone who calls himself jerry ?? Who says that he is from Indiana ??
This is in response to his comment on June 20
Here we go again now your saying that I’m some kind of front man. This is your attempt to put me down and attack my character. When all I’m doing is stating the facts of what has happened to me and so many people from around the country. You can’t handle the truth.
1. Again you continue to slander and defame my attorneys. You don’t even know them personally and you continue to tell lies about them. You should ask yourself why the attorneys for jan-pro wrote up such a complicated Fdd that it’s like Tax Code. Why did jan-pro do that? So that they could rip-us off.
2. Wrong again I do care about all of my fellow Americans from all around the United States of America and Canada who have been ripped-off. We don’t want jan-pro to continue to rip-off anymore people. It’s really sad when jan-pro is ripping off a single Mom, or a family or someone in the military. I don’t want thousands more of people getting ripped-off. They need to stop to there illegal business practices just like we asked the Judge in our complaint
3. You say that your Master owner was a joke. Then you say that some were good. If you weren‘t working there for a long time then how could you know different masters?? What did you do go around from state to state working for different masters?? You still didn’t answer the question why were you going to be terminated ??? The only thing you said was that the master had committed violations but you still didn’t answer why you were going to be terminated.
4. Your last sentence again you try and pull a fast one on me. You said that I don’t like the business and then how dare you say that I don’t like the people doing the hard work. I don’t know what kind of shenanigans your trying to pull but you know very well that the masters and corporate are in cahoots. You know very well that we are taking legal action against corporate because they are the ones who run the whole corporation.
5. Again you try and attack me and my character. I give you Facts and statements that were said to me and you try and turn everything around and attack me. You don’t even know me but you easily attack me. All you are doing is throwing poo at the wall to try and see if you can make something stick but nothing is working for you. Anybody looking at buying a fake franchise with jan-pro remember they have no word so if they tell you that you will make $25.00 Dollars an hour they are liars.
6. You said that the FDD “ is what it is ” You prove my point that it’s Deceitful, Misrepresentfull, Fraud and a total Racket. It’s like reading tax code and again I ask you why does jan-pro do this ? The answer so that they can rip- us-off. You said that no one put a gun to our heads. Well Bernie Madoff didn’t put a gun to nobodies head nor did Enron or all those bad people who rip-off senior citizens. Besides no body, absolutely no body deserves to get ripped-off no mater who they are or were they come from. What if your Mom had signed something with tricky tax code confusing word tricks and she had to be someones slave? Well Mr, slavery has been outlawed and is illegal. These contracts are Fraud. Ask yourself what will our country turn to if we let these corporations get away with these corrupt illegal scams.
7. Here you go again telling the same old lies about me over and over again. Here you go again lying and saying that I want to be “famous”. Seriously is that the best you can do is accuse me of wanting “fame”. Let me get this so you are saying that because I stood up for myself because I got ripped-off from a fake cleaning franchisor that I should expect fame??? Yea I can just see all the paparazzi after me. Sounds like you are just throwing more poo at the wall trying to see what you can make stick but it doesn’t it falls right down the wall. I wonder what is the next lie you will tell about me. You say that a unit franchise is good but you wouldn’t even buy one yourself. How can you even recommend someone buy a fake unti franchise when even you wouldn’t buy one. Then you try and say that this is a good investment for people wanting to buy there first home. You gota be kidding me. Do you know how many people that I have talked to that lost there houses because of jan-pro? To many.
8. Like I said before we do have great proof that would singe the hair of a monkeys behind. However jan-pro and there attorneys just don’t care. They want to pull there shenanigans and take there chances and see if they can rip-us-off. By the way I do know of many jan-pro settlements and several lawsuits.
9. You keep saying “ Owner/Operators ” by now you know that we are treated worse than employees and that we don’t own anything. Jan-pro took all that money from us and we own nothing. You know we are misclassified and in reality employees. Again you begin with your lies saying that I want blood and vengeance however if someone ripped you off or your grandma you to would want justice. You try and turn it around to make me the bad person by you suggesting that I want Blood. What kind of shenanigans are you pulling here again? We seek justice just like you would if someone ripped you off. You also keep saying that I want fame and notoriety and fortunes, more lies and more lies and a constant attack on me and my character. You are seriously lost if you think that you can get famous from this or even want to. I can see that replying to you is just a waste of time. You need to come forward and tell us who you really are working for. Do you have money invested in a Master franchise are you partners with a master franchise or how much is a master franchise paying you to come in here and attack me constantly everyday even on.
10. We are trying to reform the industry, didn’t you read what I posted before. On the complaint on page 14 you can read that we are seeking that the court grant us a Declaratory and Injunctive relief, requiring jan-pro to cease its illegal practices. We want jan-pro to stop ripping off so many single Moms, veterans and families.
11. You said something that absolutely is mind-boggling. How can you say that it doesn’t matter how many Thousands of families, veterans and families have left jan-pro? I guess you don’t care about all these people who got ripped-off. They didn’t just leave jan-pro ripped-them off. You said that these people simply moved and now I know that you are Lying! You say that they moved to Africa and one moved to Arizona you have got to be kidding me. You are a liar. The manager at jan-pro told me the same thing and later on I found out that some people were being intimidated and retaliated against so some people told her that they were moving and then they would change there Phone numbers to stop jan-pro from harassing them. You must have been doing the same thing intimidating them and harassing them so they probably told you we are moving to AFRICA! I can tell you must have been harassing them and intimidating them because you are in here constantly attacking me. Remember you said that you were going to follow me on this blog and constantly watch me. I even waited to post until early Sunday morning on Fathers day just to prove that you are constantly after me and you proved me right a short while later there you were attacking me again. I feel sorry for those people that told you that they moved to Arizona and Africa. How badly were you Harassing them?
12. Here you again trying to hide information. Like I said before if Mc Donald’s knows how many chicken Mc Nuggets they have sold since 1970 then jan-pro knows how many thousands of people they have ripped-off. Just like Enron you want to shred and hide the evidence.
So are u saying mcdonalds as a whole isnt ripping there franchisees off?
I WAS A JAN PRO FRANCHISEE UP UNTIL RECENTLY WHEN THEY DECIDED TO TAKE MY ENTIRE BUSINESS AWAY. THEY ARE SCAM ARTIST, MONEY HUNGRY LIARS WHO WILL SAY AND DO WHATEVER THEY HAVE TO TO CLOSE THE DEAL AND ONCE THE DEAL IS DONE YOU GET TO SEE THERE TRUE INTENTIONS. WHATEVER YOU DO DON’T BECOME A VICTIM LIKE MY HUSBAND AND I. JAN-PRO IS NOTHING BUT A PYRAMID PONZY SCHEME FROM THE MOMENT YOU PURCHASE YOUR FRANCHISE YOU ARE ONLY 1 DAY CLOSER TO LOSING IT! THEY SELL MORE FRANCHISES THAN THEY CAN ACCOMODATE. THE SAME DAY THEY TOOK MY SUPPOSED TO BE $60,000/YR BUSINESS AWAY THEY HAD A NEW FRANCHISEE SERVICING OUR BUILDINGS! WHICH ONLY MEANS ONE THING, THEY HAD OUR BUSINESS SOLD BEFORE THEY EVEN TOOK IT AWAY! MY HUSBAND AND I INVESTED CLOSE TO $20,000 FOR A BUSINESS THAT LASTED LESS THAN 2 YEARS AND WAS NEVER FULLFILLED! DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE WE DID!!! WE ARE NOW UNEMPLOYED LEFT WITH NOTHING BUT BILLS. WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO US IS GOING TO BE LIFE CHANGING, BECAUSE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE IN THIS RECESSION WE STRUGGLE TO MAKE ENDS MEET. I JUST WANT TO WARN EVERYONE DON’T FALL FOR THERE “SWEET DEAL” BECAUSE IT IS REALLY TO GOOD TO BE TRUE DON’T FALL FOR IT!!!
1st amendment: Sorry, didn’t know it took you so long to read the posts here. Obviously, with all the one’s you are monitoring, I guess I should give you more time to read and respond.
Your ramblings are funny. You still don’t get it do you? You are going to lose. I have outlined the numerous reasons you are going to lose even in such a liberal state as Massachusetts, you are going to lose. These people you keep “dragging” along with you, don’t understand, I don’t think you understand either. You say you have proof, haven’t you disclosed the “TRUTH”, if it were of such, Jan-Pro would have settled with you already. They would be “shutting you up” and they would be “shutting your attorney’s up” as well.
Obviously, they think they can “handle the truth”. I have spoken of reforming the industry, making it better for everyone, I have outlined where there are issues in the Master and Corporate level of the relationship, I have outlined some of the penalties that should be removed, I have outlined where there needs to be real change and real reform, all you do is send the same tired, old, dribble.
Is that because you are “unitelligent” , you did claim that on several ocassions including your latest post when you say the FDD is like a Tax Code. Funny, it doesn’t take me that long to do my taxes either, why?, because I’m smart enough to realize that “I’m not smart enough” and take them to my CPA to do.
Is that because you look to blame others in your life for your misfortune. There are numerous people in this country that expect others to pay for their misfortune. You seem to be one of those people. If you had spent half the time running your “Jan-Pro” business as you do on these blogs, you would have probably made it.
If you had spent time with your “customer”, if you had spent time cleaning them properly, if you had spent time developing a relationship with them, you would probably still have them, with or without Jan-Pro.
If you had done your due dilligence, if you had done a reasonable amount of home work, if you had put forth a reasonable amount of effort, would you be in this same position? Probably not.
Let me ask a final question, you seem to know so much about how Coverall operates, is that because you are the “Vasquez” that sued coverall approx. 10 Years ago as well? Could it be, you are simply going from company to company, that you have no real interest in working with/in the janitorial industry? Just asking, same name, could be like “smith” is in some parts of the U.S.
In regards to your attorneys, should be big enough, should be “law school” educated enough, if I’ve said anything slanderous, defaming or plain just “lied”, shouldn’t they be able to “sue” me. How about you, if you say that I’ve harmed you by questioning your motives, questioning your position, questioning your loyalty, questioning your thoughts, can’t you “sue” me?
Here’s a McDonalds comparison for “LEE the GREAT”, how is what McDonalds does any different than Jan-Pro?
McDonalds dictates uniforms, staffing requirements, what you “wrap” your burgers in, type of % of fat your burgers can have in them, what you serve drinks in, what computer system you run, what your restaurant must look like, cleaning procedures for your restaurant, must approve your restaurant location, must tell you where to buy your buns from, what logo’s go where etc….. The only “thing” McDonalds, doesn’t own, is usually the land the restaurant sits on. The only “thing” McDonald’s can’t take away from you is the land, but they can force you to sell, they have a “buyout” clause already in the franchise agreement that corporate can/will affect if/when certain issues arise.
Bottom line is, you have less control as a McDonald’s “owner/operator” than you do as a Jan-Pro “owner/opertor”.
So, 1st amendment, there you go, I’ve outlined the points of your case, your attorney’s will review, admit I’m right in what I’ve said, tell you that they can still win, after you lose, you won’t get as much as a phone call returned from them, they won’t “appeal” your loss unless it benefits them somehow. (probably pride getting in the way) but once they lose the appeal, they won’t even know your name. All this for what? Because you wouldn’t listen to reason, because you wouldn’t “work to settle”, because you have “vengence”, “out for blood”, “fame” mentality, all these “women”, “mothers”, “fathers” , “vets” etc… that you claim to want to help, get nothing!!!!!! On your head, no one elses.
I’m confused who is against Jan Pro and who isnt?
1st amendment is totally against Jan-Pro. Some others have “issues” with Jan-Pro but are willing to be reasonable.
I’m the only one that is “for” though I have issues with the Upper Management and some of the “Master Owners”.
Hope this helps.
To someone who calls himself jerry ? Who says that he is from Indiana ?
In response to his post on June 21, 2010
You start of your post by attacking me and attacking the Truth that I have spoken. You are mad that jan-pro is being exposed and that the truth is coming out. I bet that you are a part owner of a master franchise or you must own one or some master franchisor is paying you $$$ Big Bucks to attack me. Something is surely up because you are in here seven days a week 24 hours a day attacking me and throwing poo at the wall. I wonder how much money $$$ a master franchise is paying you.
1. I don’t think that your predictions will come true. We have so much evidence that it will singe the hair of a monkeys behind.
2. They will find that jan-pro has broken many laws and also Misclassified us. The Judge has already proven it according to the Law. Look at this case Coverall North America v Commissioner of the Division of Unemployment Assistance. Since the courts found that Coverall had misclassified this lady and that they had underbid the buildings so low that she was making less than minimum wage she won and was also able to get unemployment benefits. A lot of harm has been done by them Misclassifying everyone. They underbid so low that we were making less than minimum wage. By them misclassifying us they were able to bid so low that we were getting less than minimum wage. The harm is there and very evident. I could go on for example accounts taken away for no reason that is theft, Jan-pro checks bouncing fraud, Ridiculous fines just so that they can enrich themselves a Racket.
3. The FDD is very Misrepresentfull and very, very tricky and Deceitful, even jan-pros attorneys admit that it’s very hard to understand. If Jan-pros attorneys have a hard time understanding it then your average hard working American will have a very hard time to. You have to ask yourself why does jan-pro do this? Why do they play word tricks and make something that has to do with cleaning buildings into something so Deceitful. What if they start putting trickier language on there and they start putting on there FDD that people will be there slaves and servants for life? What if they tricked your Mom into signing something like that, should she then be a slave for life? You know that would be wrong because slavery is against the Law. Should we allow these scam and Deceitfull Ponzi Schemes to exist in this great country of ours. What is this the best country in the world turning into. Should we allow these corporations to take advantage of hard working Americans. Should we allow these companies to rip-off single Moms, Veterans and Families. I hope not.
4. We will also proof that Thousands of jan-pros accounts are very badly underbid. You said that it wasn’t relevant but its very important because this is part of the Racket Ponsi Scheme that they are pulling. They hope that you get tired of getting ripped-off and that you walk away so that they can resale that account to someone else and make Thousands of $$$ Dollars $$$ more. Before you know it they have resold an account 5 times and jan-pro has made Thousands of $$$ Dollars $$$ from this Racket. There is Thousands of cleaning companies that can testify to how jan-pro underbids so low that it takes them out of business. This is unfair competition because jan-pro gets away from doing this because they rip-off there people and they don’t have to play by the rules that independent companies have to. This is unfair competition. Don’t be surprised if independent companies start taking action against cleaning franchisors for there unfair competition tactics.
5. If you are an independent company and a cleaning franchisor unfairly took your business away you might want to file a complaint with this Government office. Go to the bottom of this website.
http://www.stopfraud.gov/report.html#unfair
6. You said that you want to bet me a dime and maybe a dollar that they have this fake paperwork that they had the right to steal peoples accounts away. Well I will bet you a Million Dollars that we will prove this fraud and that they had no right to steal these accounts away.
7. I was told that I would make $25.00 Dollars an hour. California is one the most expensive states to live in. They told me that just to get my money. However I noticed how you try and CHANGE things around. I can tell that you were trained in jan-pros deceptive ways.
8. According to the information that I have looked at on the internet jan-pro has violated and continues to violate and break the law. The Rico and Racketeering Acts. To my knowledge they are in violation of 3 of the 2 laws needed to be prosecuted under the Rico and Racketeering Acts. Other franchisors have been prosecuted for breaking these Laws.
9. Here you go again trying to change things and basically lying. I never said that I have spoken to Thousands of people. I said that I have spoken to close to 100 people from around the country and Canada. These people have told me that they know of a lot of people who are getting ripped-off. Now I know of over 35 people from my local office who got ripped-off personally. If these 100 people know of another 35 people then this would be 3500 people who are getting ripped-off and that’s not even counting all the other people who moved or changed there numbers because jan-pro was harassing them. If we also ad a lot of other people that we never met I’m sure that there is a few more Thousands who got ripped-off.
10. To j from Indiana or whoever you are. You said that you are an inside person at jan-pro and then you changed it to that you are no longer there because the master franchisor was going to Fire you. You said that you were an operations manager in a city in Indiana only, so how could you know so many different master franchisors if you were just a simple manager in Indiana. Who knows who you are? If you are no longer with jan-pro why are you here everyday 7 days a week 24 hours a day attacking me and other people who got ripped-off by jan-pro? It’s only obvious that you have some interest or something to loose and that is why you protect some of there master franchises. You are either part owner of a master franchise or own one. Of course you will probably lye to us and deny this. One of the things you said on an earlier post was that you would Never Ever buy a unit franchise but that you would buy a Master Franchise.
You need to also come forward and tell us why the master franchisor in Indiana was going to Fire you. You need to tell us what Laws they have broken and who they have hurt.
Once it is all said and done. Once the court proceedings and appeals have come to a conclusion and once the outcome is final, whether we get justice or not you will not be able to fool God. What ever the outcome is, there will be one Being that you will not be able to Fool. When we all pass from this earth God will pass Judgment and make Justice. When the time comes to meet your maker, when you are days or hours from meeting your maker you will have to ask yourself if you lived a good life and if you did the right thing.
1st amendment, Iloveamerica, Jerry “V” or whoever you are today:
This bantering back and forth is good for the site, good entertainment, shows up on other sites as well. Here’s the problem, to keep people “interested” you can’t keep “hashing up” the same old stuff. You are very “picky” about what “facts” you chose to find and how you chose to “use” them.
1. Never side I was an Operations Manager, current or former for Jan-Pro.
2. You stated you already knew who I was, I gave you permission to “expose” me, still haven’t done so. Said that you had talked to owner/operators who knew me, if that was the case, then didn’t they tell you “who” I was/am.
3. You continue to state that Jan-Pro mislead you, REALLY!! Said that Jan-Pro’s attorneys said that the FDD was unable to be read/understood by “normal americans”. REALLY!! If an attorney representing my company, said something like that in a general affadavit format, I would FIRE THEM!!!! still the same attorney’s aren’t they? Maybe, they “played you”, as I’ve stated numerous times before, YOU don’t know when to “shut up”, I’ll bet they made a statement, you fell right into that and then started “babbling” about items they are going to use and tear you up with in court.
4. FDD is what it is, you need to read it, you can’t understand it, take it to someone who does, accountant, lawyer, other business owner etc… You still don’t understand something and you still “sign it”. Doesn’t make much sense to me nor the others reading this site. You don’t deny, that they didn’t give you at least ten days before contacting you again, you don’t deny that they didn’t have a gun, threaten your family, twist your arm, threaten to “beat your mother” if you didn’t sign with them right?
5. So far, you have admitted on this blog, that you didn’t follow the instructions laid out in policy and procedures by handling your customer properly. Which clearly states as follows:
a) You have the right to walk an account prior to accepting
b) You have the right to have a copy of the executed contract including specifications for that account prior to accepting.
c) You have the right to see/introduce/meet the customer before accepting that account.
d) Upon acceptance, you are to clean the account per the specifications shown and agreed upon.
e) Upon acceptance, you are to do the following after the first cleaning:
1. Call the customer, see how the “first night” went, any issues, correct them.
2. Call the customer, the first through third weeks at least once per week, check in, make sure all items are being addressed any issues.
3. Meet with the customer on a Monthly basis, fill out customer survey form, turn that form into the regional office by date specified in order to remain complient.
As I’ve stated before, if you had done those items, you wouldn’t be in the postiion you are now. You’ve done none of them, you have no proof of doing them, you want to blame someone else for your lack of following simple format for success.
In regards to “independent companies” and their “claims against” Jan-Pro, Jani-King and others, what a pile of GARBAGE!!!. The true “propblem” in the industry is the “mom and pops” that have no clue as to what they are doing, don’t know how to bid jobs, don’t staff jobs correctly, don’t pay taxes, don’t report taxes, don’t know how to clean and especially in today’s economy, underbid everyone dramatically. Every Jan-Pro office, including your former one, has cabinet drawers full of bids that they didn’t get because they were too high. For every “expert” someone can put up, Jan-Pro can put up three.
You will lose because you are wrong, you will lose because you didn’t follow the format outlined in writing, you will lose because it will become quite obvious to a jury of “peers” that you didn’t do the things necessary to perform the work in order to keep the customer. You will lose because common sense prevails even in Massachussetts!!!!
Coverall will end up in the end winning their lawsuit, whether in the lower court or the upper/appeals court. Legislation already on its way through the House/Senate of Massachussetts to “clean up” the language in the independent contractor statue.
Coverall won in the misclasification case. No award was given, Coverall has “judgement” against the plantiffs for attorney’s fees, court costs etc…
Your attorneys, will abandon you after they lose, you will be left holding the bag. You have no case, you have little “proof” and at the end of the day, because you have chosen to go down this “path”, you will be judged as a failure and it’s on you, because you helped bring people to a “lathered up” stage, not me.
You want to win, start talking to the people at Webster about what issues are “real”.
You want to win, start talking about the lack of control Corporate Jan-Pro has over the Master Owners, especially those brought on by Jacque Lapointe.
You want to win, start talking about the “lackey’s” in chagre of Jan-Pro Corporate and how poorly they have handled this whole “mess”.
You want to win, start getting “reasonable people” with “reasonable solutions” to start talking for you and the owner/operators both past and present.
But you don’t want that, you want “vengence”, you want “blood”, you want “fame”. You don’t want reason, you don’t want to protect those currently in the system, you don’t want reform the industry, you’re in this for all the wrong reasons. That’s why you will lose.
So jerry ur opion should I get a franchise i was thinking about it?
Lee the Great:
1. Have you ever been in the cleaning business before?
2. Do you understand that this business is hard, that you are going to have to spend time, resources and put forth effort to make this business grow?
3. Did you spend time investigating the “Master” and have you met his “key” staff?
4. Do you understand that you are going to have to do the work yourself for a period of time in order to “recoup” your investment at a reasonable pace?
5. The one’s that make it as a unit franchisee, whether it’s with Coverall, Jani-King , Jan-Pro’s or another, understand the above at a minimum.
If so, yes. If you’re looking to “blame” someone else when things get tough, if you’re looking at $25.00 to $50.00 per hour on your investment, if you’re wanting to spend a bunch of time, money and effort on things other than cleaning business, then NO!!!!
I’ve been in this business for over 25 Years, I’ve made good money, some would even say GREAT money. But even after 25 Years in this industry, I DON”T KNOW EVERYTHING!!!! Because I understand that, I still spend time researching, learning, investigating, planning, teaching, organizing etc…… People like 1st amendment, Jerry “V”, ILOVEAMERICA and others like him don’t. They thought it was easy, they didn’t do their homework, they didn’t put in the time and effort to “service” their customer, they want to blame everyone else and not take responsibility for their actions, they want to DESTROY this opportunity for literally Ten’s of Thousands of owner/operators currently working in the business for the “Big Three”.
Bottom line is “LEE THE GREAT”, is this is a great business, if you have the proper support, if you have the will, if you are willing to invest time, money, effort then you can make good money, you can buy new things, you can own your own home, you can put kid’s through college, you can save money for retirement, you can build a nice “nest egg” for yourself and your family. No one is going to “hand it to you”, you’re going to have to earn it everyday. That’s the nature of the business whether your a “traditional company”, “owner/operator company” or whatever.
Hope this Helps.
1st amendment, Jerry “V”, ILOVEAMERICA or whoever you are today.
Finally took/had the time to re-read the “dribble” that your spewing from the other day.
1. I’ve already stated that you can “reveal” who I am. You say you “know me”, “know of me”, “know people who know me”. What are you waiting for. Or is this just another load of “monkey dung” that you are throwing around.
2. No, I am not a “Master Owner” for Jan-Pro, Coverall, Jani-King.
3. I’ve already stated why I spend time on this site. It’s to counter you. It’s to come after you. It’s to challenge the non-sense that you are spewing. It’s to make your life as miserable as I possibly can. It’s to attack you. (Wait a second, that’s what you are accusing me of doing) Real reason, it’s because you are wrong, you are narrow minded, you are either an attorney representing people in the class action lawsuit, work for an attorney representing people in the class action lawsuit or you are who you say you are and your mis-representing the industry as a whole. Either way, someone needs to “stand up” for the thousands of current owner/operators servicing their accounts, growing their business, handling their business properly on a nightly basis for the “Big Three” figured it might as well be me.
4. I’ve shown you, told you, given you examples of how “traditional companies” bid jobs, how the “Big Three” bid jobs etc… Both are on the same “level” only question is production rate. Who’s hungrier this time, Who’s in need of more business, Who’s wanting to/needing to grow, Who’s filling in geographically. etc.. For every bid Jan-Pro got, I can guarantee you there are at least two they didn’t get. Yes, even in your office!!!
5. I’ve shown where you failed in your argument for the underbidding aspect, I’ve shown where you failed in your argument for the FDD, I’ve shown where you’ve failed in the Policy and Procedures aspect of managing your account, I’ve shown where you’ve failed in the “fining” process, I’ve shown where you’ve failed every “step of the way”. Do you learn? NO Do you listen? NO
Now you want to bring “GOD” into the argument. Seems a bit desperate to me. Really, you want to say “GOD” is going to judge me for countering you, he’s going to “hold me accountable” for my actions in regards to “countering you”, he’s going to “hold me accountable” for things “I did, may have done” to owner/operators, REALLY!!!!! I’m good with that, ARE YOU?
Where’s your confidence at? Now you are admitting you “Might Lose”, “However this turns out” etc…. HMMM, when I first started “posting here” there was no way you were going to lose, there was no way the “executives” at Jan-Pro weren’t going to jail, there was no way “Jan-Pro and others” were going to remain in business etc…… Wonder what happened? Could it have been a dose of REALITY has set in?
Don’t want to “squash” you completely, just needed to “break you down”. Here’s the Reality:
a) Reform is needed in the industry as a whole.
b) Webster needs to step in, remove the executives at Jan-Pro and replace them with people of integrity, desire, grit and determination to change this company and make it a model for the industry as a whole.
c) Master Owner who don’t conform to the new rules, new regulations that will assist in protecting owner/operators the proper way, will be removed quickly. Those who violate those new rules/regulations will be fined heavily, will not be allowed to sell unit franchises for a period of time, will face possible removal.
d) Proper Training of all Master Owner Operations and Sales Staff must be done in the Corporate office/training center with standards of excellance as the core subject, combined with proper knowledge of the industry, trade information etc..
e) Owner/Operators must have a “voice” in the company, no different than an investor does in a corporation. Owner/Operators are investors in my opinion and should be treated as such/with the respect they deserve.
In closing, you and I are on the same “TEAM” we are just approaching this in different ways. Your way, you lose. Because you are “all in” and no place to go. My way, we all win (owner/operators, investors, corporate entity,masters, industry as a whole).
I really don’t wish you “Good Luck” because of what it will mean if you win. You will “win” for yourself and no one else.
Look forward to reading your responses.
Thanks Jerry Yea I do understand that i wold have to work as an employee /owner for a few year till everythng can smooth over i did the math and all. And am going to call the other franchisee in the area to ask them.
Lee the Great:
Wonderful, you are doing things the right way upfront. If you don’t speak to other owner/operators, if the “master” isn’t proud of his staff, if you don’t feel comfortable understanding and/or signing the FDD, then go down the street.
You have the freedom to chose or not. I personally think Jan-Pro as a whole, is a good company. I truly believe in the owner/operator system vs. traditional cleaning companies, both in quality of “product” and in the fact that you can certainly make more money being an owner/operator than an employee of another cleaning company.
I wish you well in your endeavors and I hope that I and this “site” helped. BRAVO!!!
The following is and article on why you shouldn’t buy a FAKE cleaning franchise. You can read part of it here and you can read the rest of it by going to the link probided. It was published on http://www.Franchisetimes.com The article is
“Taking off the Gloves” By Julie Bennett
http://www.franchisetimes.com/content/story_result.php?article=01374
Taking off the Gloves
Commercial cleaning franchisees sue
By Julie Bennett
As published in: Franchise Times – August 2009
Several pending court cases, which are all seeking class-action status, challenge the business model on which some of the largest commercial cleaning franchisors have operated for decades.
Lawsuits have been filed against Jani-King International of Addison, Texas; Coverall Health-Based Cleaning System of Boca Raton, Florida; and Jan-Pro Franchising International of Alpharetta, Georgia.
But the lawsuits, filed recently in Massachusetts against all three companies and in Pennsylvania, Minnesota and California against Jani-King, contend that the cleaning companies misrepresent their offerings, because they do not have sufficient customers to guarantee each franchisee the amount of monthly cleaning business they purchase. Instead, the lawsuits allege, they breach their contracts by underbidding the amount of time and staffing required for each job, refusing to allow franchisees to inspect cleaning jobs or bid sheets before accepting or rejecting a job, offering geographically inconvenient jobs and unjustly taking jobs from one franchisee to re-sell them to others.
Perhaps more damaging is a second contention—that these so-called franchisees have so little control over their livelihoods, they should be re-classified as employees of the janitorial franchisors and, therefore, entitled to minimum wages, overtime pay, unemployment benefits and worker’s compensation.
Lawsuits over misrepresentation and breach of contract are nothing new. According to its 2008 FDD (Franchise Disclosure Document), Coverall has settled 26 such cases in the past 10 years, admitting no guilt, but paying former franchisees settlements of $3,575 to $450,000. Many of the 52 pieces of litigation listed in Jani-King’s FDD also ended in settlement payments. Commercial cleaning franchise contracts are usually written only in English (Coverall has offered a Spanish translation since 2004) and are so complex that the state of Maryland adds a warning page about potential risk factors to their FDDs, said Dale Cantone, Maryland’s assistant attorney general. The Federal Trade Commission distributes a 19-page booklet of cautions for people considering commercial cleaning franchises.
What is new is the second charge, that commercial cleaning franchisees are merely buying themselves low-paying jobs and should be treated like employees. In 2006 the Massachusetts Supreme Court ruled that a Coverall “franchisee,” Rhina Alvarenga, was actually an employee and therefore entitled to unemployment benefits after Coverall removed her from a nursing home cleaning account. Attorneys representing Jani-King, Jan-Pro and other Coverall franchisees cited that decision in their complaints. “It’s possible that the business model under which they’ve operated could be ruled illegal,” said one of the attorneys.
1st amendment: There you go again, not an original thought in your “system” is there? Would love for you to be consistent, what a minute, you are.
1st amendment: What’s the matter, have you forgotten how to “read” and “talk” at the same time. Or did I “squash” your spirit, unlike “Voice of Reason” and “Dutch Group” who used to be your rivals on other sites, they “went away”. I’m still here.
Jerry
Could you provide additional info on “Webster”?
How much of Jan-Pro they own, where I could verify the material.
Thanks
Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager:
1. Have nothing further, since they “purchased” Greentree’s Equity in Jan-Pro, that would mean they have controlling interest. Jacque LaPointe has had nothing to do with day to day operations of the company since the Greentree buyout.
2. Again, all I can say is, they have controlling interest. They have at least 51% control of the company. For all I know, they control more than that. But again, I know for sure, they got “Greentree’s” stake.
According to the http://www.seiu.org/ website:
“We are the Service Employees International Union, an organization of 2.2 million members united by the belief in the dignity and worth of workers and the services they provide and dedicated to improving the lives of workers and their families and creating a more just and humane society.”
Does anyone have any experience with this group? Now that a MA judge has determined commercial cleaning franchisees are really misclassified employees, think this group can help Jan-Pro and other janitorial franchisees and workers?
Guest: Questioned you on the other site, still no answer. Obviously, you misspeak on a consistent basis, might want to visit other sites where your propoganda has a better chance of playing out.
SEIU like most “unions” are simply stated, “out for themselves”. Look no further than the “crap” you pulled here in Indianapolis and Cincinnati for the “real proof” of how well an SEIU backed program really works. After working “everyone” up into a lather and getting several companies to “agree” via “strong armed tactics” (traditional companies such as Bulldog, 4M, ABM, GSF and others) to agree to utilize only ‘union workers” to clean their downtown area buildings, the work force for SEIU has diminished quickly and quietly, why? Because the “hype” was easier than the “maintaining”, because the “press” was more important than the actual worker/member.
SEIU is a disgusting organization that “preys” on people too stupid to know any better. Want to know a “truth” about SEIU in regards to commercial cleaning companies and how they “skew” their propoganda? ask David Bago the owner of EMS Group here in Indianapolis, better yet, read his book about his experience, his companies experience, his customers experience with the “goons” of the SEIU. SEIU and their “goons” did terrible things to a good company, good person and this persons family!
SEIU is a joke, run by the biggest joker of all President Obama.
1st amendment, Jerry “v”, Iloveamerica or now guest:
What’s the matter, afraid of the “truth” now you’ve gone union on us? Or is this your “law firm” that is being paid by the SEIU with union dues to attack the “franchise industry” in order to gain another “foot hold” in the commercial cleaning industry?
Obviously, you, your attorney’s and others have an “agenda” that should be revealed sooner than later. Deception is a wonderful thing until you “slip up”.
Didn’t figure these “attorneys” were “just good people” figured they had an “agenda” all along. Hopefully, the attorney’s for Jan-Pro, Jani-King and Coverall do visit this site and see that they are really up against SEIU “goons” and “thugs” utilizing lawyers, disgruntled franchisees to “break up” their companies and not simply facing “lawsuits”.
“…a disgusting organization that “preys” on people too stupid to know any better.”
I agree. Oh… you weren’t describing Jan-Pro?
When your day of reckoning comes, and it will come, you won’t be able to say you didn’t have adequate time to clean up your act or enact even a modicum of self-policing. The excesses and abuses of companies like Jan-Pro, Jani-King & Coverall can be tolerated only so long.
Jerry can drone on with his tedious rationalizations and numbered lists all he wants. At the end of the day, he and those like him will have brought this on themselves.
Workers of the world, unite!
Guest: What a waste of time. “day of reckoning” now you are starting to sound like “1st amendment”. Wait a second, I take that back, you’ve only “cut and pasted” a couple of times.
SEIU is an organization full of goons that attack anyone who stands up against it. Aren’t you tired of “hiding in the shadows”, admit that you are paying the bills for “Jerry V”, “1st amendment” and other disgruntled owner/operators. Admit that you are mis-using union dues in order to “latch on” in this particular lawsuit.
Why are you taking “over” the website, is it because “1st amendment” is outmanned and outgunned. Is it as he claims to be “to unintelligent” to read and understand an FDD, didn’t care to take the time to read/review, Policy and Procedures, asleep during his training classes so he could learn how to manage and work his business.
Noticed that you didn’t defend nor deny SEIU’s actions nor status in Indianapolis or Cincinnati.
What’s the matter, “can’t handle the truth!”
People like Jerry work very hard to obfuscate, complicate, and distract from the facts, which are very simple.
Companies like Jan-Pro, Coverall, Jani-King, Bonus Building care and all the me-too pirates sell area development/ master franchises to scammers who then do their dirty work by selling fake franchises. They prey on the hopes and dreams of recent immigrants, the under educated, the under employed by offering low-cost supposed franchise opportunities.
If you buy one of these, you will not “own your own business” or “be your own boss” Some people refer to these franchises as “buying a job,” but in reality it’s much worse. With a job, you are at least given the protection of employment laws, including minimum wage, overtime, unemployment compensation and anti discrimination protections. With these “franchises” you basically pay money for indentured servitude.
Read through this site and the articles linked to, see how many people report not receiving the promised jobs, having to accept underbid, unprofitable jobs, having jobs taken from them and given to other franchisees for no cause. If you do not have direct contact or relationships with your own customers, you do not own a business, period.
Simply skip all the doubletalk, conspiracy theories, insults & innuendos of masters of misdirection and obfuscation like Jerry and see this scam for what it is. And stay away from janitorial franchises – either as a customer or franchisee. This is a beast that should be starved.
Guest: Well after “beating you with facts” over on the “Jani-King” area, guess it’s time for a dose of reality here too.
You obviously haven’t bothered or taken the time to read, so let me give you an overview.
1. No one “forces” any one to do anything. Presentations are made, people are given verifiable documentation to take home with them after the presentations. That’s the FDD and UFOC. In that, it talks about directly what this business is about, how you will need to handle yourself, how you are to relate to the customer, how you are to relate to the “regional office”, what penalties there are if you don’t perform your duties as outlined, there are all of the “posted” current and former franchises are listed with their contact information.
2.They have a minimum of ten (10) days of “quiet” before they are even contacted by the “presenter” usually the “master franchisor” and they are asked for their thoughts, comments, questions, issues etc..
3. They still don’t have to come back, they don’t have a “gun” to their head, they don’t have Italian Mobsters coming to their house, they don’t keep one or more of their children for ransom etc…. They choose to do this business, want to do this business, want to learn this business, want to build this business etc…
Your problem, 1st amendments problem, the attorneys that you are paying/representing both, are “FREEDOM OF CHOICE”. No jury will ever find fault at the end of the day, just like the “Coverall” jury didn’t award any damages, just like the jury won’t find “guilt” on behalf of Coverall, Jan-Pro nor Jani-King for anything maybe other than minor “breach of contract” and even that one will be “maybe”.
Cut through all the “crap”. You have your opinion, 1st amendment has his opinion, I have my opinion and the tens of thousands of owner/operators making good on their “effort and dream” each and every night across this country have theirs!!!!!!!!!
BETTER GET SOME AMMO, YOU’RE SHOOTING BLANKS!
Guest: Still waiting for you to “argue” the facts and the wonderfulness (is that a word?) of SEIU. Unfortunately for you, not only do you not know the “business”, you don’t seem to know alot of facts about SEIU in regards to the commercial cleaning industry as a whole.
Maybe you want to “pick” a fight with 1st amendment ( I know you can’t, you need 1st amendment and his merry bunch of “disgruntled franchisees) he’s not as smart, he’s easily confused, he’ll turn over ten’s of thousands of dollars for $25.00 per hour return on his investment.
Still haven’t said why you don’t have a “name”. Is it because Liz or someone else in the law firm doesn’t want you to be exposed?
Send 1st amendment back, at least he would “cut and paste” on a regular basis.
The information is covered in the disclosure documents, however, I have met only ONE person that actually took the time to read it.
People believe what they are told. Many have been told they will “own their own business” which is misrepresentation and a violation of the covenant of good faith and fair dealing that EVERY contract must adhear to.
Change is coming to Illinois – I guarantee it.
To prospective franchisees: Jerry provides great examples of the slithery rhetoric and techniques of the franchise sales pros who lure honest, hardworking people into a fantasy of being business owners when they are in fact, buying themselves heartache.
These guys spend millions buying phony awards and top franchise “rankings” from soulless advertising magazines like Entrepreneur and buying leads from sucker factories like Franchise Gator. Once your name is in their system, their automated follow-up software system will barrage you with emails til you die or buy. They deploy an army of slick, relentless, commission-hungry franchise sales hounds who know all the right buttons to push to convert your hopes and fears into a commission checks or broker bonuses.
How do they justify it to themselves (not that it takes much) when you get in and lose your savings, credit, etc.? Look at Jerry’s words: “No one forces anyone to do anything” “No one held a gun to their head.” Once you sign up, all the nice nice sales talk goes away and they’ll say: You shoulda done your homework. Or, it’s your fault we took your accounts away.
Slithery franchise sales guys love to act like they are doing things out of the bottom of their heart when they’re actually required by law. See how Jerry says they grant “a minimum of ten (10) days of “quiet” before they are even contacted by the “presenter” usually the “master franchisor” and they are asked for their thoughts, comments, questions, issues etc.” Great guys who don’t go for the easy sale, right?
The truth is, that’s required by law. The FTC 14-Day Rule requires that they distribute a complete franchise disclosure document with exhibits to all prospective franchisees on a date that is on a date that is not less than 14 days prior to the signing of any agreement or the acceptance of any money. When following the 14-day rule, there must be an intervening period that includes 14 days in which no activity occurs.
As you can (and will continue to) see, Jerry and his ilk will have an answer to every objection, a quick defense for every criticism and a nasty eagerness to ferret out and discredit anyone who exposes their sleazy ways. After all, they’ve got boat payments due and they’re counting on your franchise fees to pay them.
Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager:
Though I find you an “honest broker” for the most part, can you honestly explain to me in realistic terms how it’s Jan-Pro’s fault or any other owner/operator systems fault that the “prospective franchisee” doesn’t bother even “reading’ the material given.
I don’t know, I’m obviously not as wealthy as most of the people on this “site” but if I were to give anyone my “hard earned” money, I think I would bother reading the information given to me, if I didn’t understand, I would give it to someone who I trusted that did. It’s not like a “car dealership”, they don’t hide keys, park your “current car” in the back lot, etc… They’ve got at least ten (10) full days before even being contacted, they aren’t required to give a deposit, not required to give credit card numbers, they don’t leave their children with the “master owner” while the ten (10) days are going on, they don’t leave their spouse, they aren’t held against their will etc….
What they’ve been “told” and it makes it a “misrepresentation”, really? If that’s the case, why bother putting everything into writing, why can’t it just be “said”. Covenant of good faith? There’s shared responsibility envolved, correct?
Do you really think, that if any/all of these “disgruntled” owner/operators had put even 1/2 the amount of effort into reading, listening, doing, working, planning, asking questions, etc…. as they have put in “complaining”, “suing” , “threatening to sue” etc… that we would even be here?
Jan-Pro vs. others, actually DEMANDS interaction between the owner/operator and their customer. That’s done in the Policy and Procedures which outlines literally day by day, month to month, quarter to quarter what they are to do in order to BUILD their bond with the customer/contract holder. Paperwork is required back from the owner/operator that the customer is to fill out, comment on, survey etc..
Change is coming to Illinois- Haven’t we already had enough change that has come from Illinois in the form of “Blago”, “Obama”, “Hastert” and others. Maybe it’s time for Illinois to change!
Guest: Why are you so “afraid” to reveal yourself, even a simply “name” like “Attorney” or “SEIU Steward” or “Fraud for Hire” is/would be appropriate for you.
So you finally admit that again, what I’ve been saying all along is true. The companies in question, do things by the book. But there’s still “disgruntled” franchisee’s envolved here isn’t there? I’ve bothered giving answers, suggestions of reform, ask for the “executives in charge” to be replaced etc…
What have you done? Misrepresented the Truth, Misrepresented the FDD, Misrepresented the commercial cleaning business as a whole, Misrepresented how “wonderful” the SEIU is, Misrepresented/Denied any issues with the “Janitors for Justice” campaign.
Funny, 1st amendment goes AWOL and responds on other sites, You step into his place touting the benefits of the SEIU, what the attorneys representing “Vasquez” and others are making points about in court? Are you a “dishonest broker”?
In responce To someone who calls himself jerry ?? Who says that he is from Indiana??. Who says that he is waching me and that he is going to come and get me.
The reason I haven’t been on here responding every single day to every single post you post here is because I have a life. I wonder how much money $$$$$$ jan-pro is paying you to come in here and post everyday even on Hollidays, Sometimes you even post 3 or 4 times a day. Your pockets must be full of jan-pro money $$$$$$ Will you ever tell us how much jan-pro is paying you $$$$$$.
I laugh at your Lies. You Lie and say that I’m going awol LOL. Is that the best you can come up with.
One of the reason I haven’t been on here everysingleday 24 hours a day like the monkey from Indiana is because I have a life and I’m getting so many calls from people from all over the country who are so tired of getting ripped-off by jan-pro. The list is growing everyday.
It looks like the monkey from Indiana is Desperate to do Damage Control. I can sence the desperation from you and your company jan-pro.
It looks like I have to respond to many of his snot nose full of dung desperate comments.
To someone who calls himself jerry ?? Who says that he lives in Indiana ??
To someone who says that he is watching me and that he is going to come and get me!
Did those intimidation tactics work for you when you did it to single Moms?
I will start responding to all of this monkeys Lies. I wonder how much $$$$$$ Jan-pro is paying him $$$$$$ because he post here day after day and he is in here everyday 7 days a week. Someone only does that if jan-pro is paying them allot of money $$$$$$
In reply to his following post
Sunday June 27, 2010
Monday June 28, 2010
Tuesday June 29, 2010
Wednesday June 30, 2010
And again Wednesday June 30,2010
Thursday July 1, 2010
Friday July 2, 2010
Sunday July 4, 2010
Wednesday July 7, 2010
And again Wednesday July 7, 2010
And again Wednesday July 7,2010
Thursday, July 8 2010
And again Thursday, July 8 2010
And many more
Response to Sunday June 27, 2010
Anyone looking at buying a fake jan-pro franchise this is the kind of crap you deal whit if you buy a fake franchise from jan-pro. They are Deceitful Liars so save your money.
1. Your post are full of Lies. You said that I lost my badly underbid accounts? That is a lie, I never lost an account. Why do you LIE so much? I guess you cant break your lying habits. Did you learn that at jan-pro?
2. Again the Fdd is very confusing. Jan-pros attorneys agreed that it’s very hard to understand. Even jan-pros attorneys said it’s very hard to understand. Why does jan-pro do this? Why do they have an Fdd that is so long with so many pages and so hard to understand that it is full of word tricks that are meant only for contract attorneys to understand? Is it so that they can rip-you off later on. There is an article on this scam on http://www.Franchisetimes.com
3. Again they are Missrepresentfull and Deceitful. They promised me so many things. They said that my business would grow and that I would be able to hire employees and that I would make $25.00 Dollars an hour. They were all LIES! There accounts are so badly underbid that you make less than minimum wage.
4. Everybody will tell you that the training jan-pro gives is all a bad joke. A 15 minute video tape and a pamphlet is not real training. Also your car example is a joke. There is a big difference in buying a car than to having people straight out Lie to you about there fake cleaning franchise and making so many promises.
5. I do compare jan-pro to Bernie madof because jan-pro is doing the same thing that he did to so many people. Jan-pro lied to us and made so many promises. It was all Deceit and Fraud. If Bernie madof was able to rip-off the rich and powerful and there attorneys then jan-pro was easily able to rip-us off. In a ponsi scheme or scam anybody can be riped-off. It seems to me like you are trying to make it ok for Bernie madof and jan-pro to rip-off people. It’s probably because you are the same like them.
6. You are hoping that we loose this case so that jan-pro can give you a Big Bonus. How much is jan-pro paying you $$$$$$ for you to say that???
7. Again you post more LIES. Why do you LIE so much. You sound just like a little Monkey who is just coming up with anything at all and throwing it at the wall to see what sticks but nothing does and so you continue to Lie , Lie and Lie. Our attorneys are working on a contingency basis but you will Lie and say other things, why did you Lie and say something else? Tell us why you LIE so much? Do you go to the bathroom and just shit out LIES? I guees jan-pro thought you well on how to be a good Deceitful LIAR! Why are you and jan-pro so scared of more News stories coming out? Why are you and jan-pro so scared of me posting the articles that were printed on http://www.Franchisetimes.com “Taking off the Gloves” or the News Special on Television were jan-pro was exposed for ripping of all of those ladies on channel 52 Telemundo on a show called Al Rojo vivo with reporter Maria Celeste here is the link.
http://msnlatino.telemundo.com/shows/Al_Rojo_Vivo/video_player?uuid=7d4cfdb4-97e0-4799-9b76-6a38d058e95f ?
There is many more articles that I need to post. Will you get mad when I post those to?
1st amendment: I now fully understand why you “cut and paste” so much. Your ranting is funny. You and “guest” should start working together!!!(oops, you already do). I know it’s hard for you to “catch up” and yes, your life is busy, I’ve seen where you’ve been posting on at least two other sites, both of which several times in the past week!!!!!
Now, you finally admit you are going to LOSE!!! Why would a group of fine attorney’s such as your law firm be planning “contingency” plans. Only time an attorney admits defeat is when his “client” starts running out of money. Obviously, the SEIU and others picking up your tab and the other “disgruntled” franchisee’s tab, have told your attorney’s that the “well” is running dry.
So, tell me, when you lose. When your attorney’s lose face, when it’s revealed probably a year or so down the road that the SEIU and others were footing the bill for this “play” and because you didn’t take my advice and listen to me, what are you going to tell all those “mothers”, “vets”, “illegal immigrants” etc….that you did “your” best, that you took Jan-Pro to the mat, what are you going to tell them?
As I’ve stated before, when you go “all in” like you have, sometimes you LOSE!! Unfortunately, you’ve wasted an opportunity, you’ve gotten no where, you’ve done nothing positive. You’ve huffed, puffed, spewed, made some friends, but where will those friends be, when you LOSE!!!
As I’ve stated before, not that you believe me, want to believe, care to believe me etc….. I don’t work for Jan-Pro any more, I’ve never worked for Jani-King, Coverall etc… Been in this industry for over 25 years, know what I know, seen what I’ve seen, you want to blame everyone else for your failure, NO RESPONSIBILITY on your part for that failure, You don’t listen now, sure you didn’t listen then. At the end of the day, you’ve got to look at yourself in the mirror and ask the following: What did I accomplish? Could I have done better? Was there a better way of handling this mess? Who did I hurt? Where do I go from here?
You’ll of course be asking those questions by yourself, in the middle fo the night, all alone, because the SEIU, your attorney’s, your “friends” and others that have filled your “mind” with dillusions of fame will all be gone attacking someone else, some other industry, some other company.
In regards to your postings, cut and paste away. But I can tell you and your attorney’s are losing steam, the arguments that I’ve made are “hitting home” and now you’ve admitted to everyone that you’re about to lose. Also, I don’t get paid by anyone to post here, to check on your postings elsewhere, to “spy” on you, to attack your attorneys, to counter your “garbage”. I do this for free, I do this because it’s my right to do so, I do this because I LOVE THIS BUSINESS and I LOVE AMERICA!
Let me know when you and your attorneys are throwing your “DEFEAT” drinking party, hope I’m invited.
To someone who says that he is watching me and that he is going to come and get me!
To someone who calls himself jerry ?? but wont tell us his real complete name.
This is in response to the post he posted on Monday June 28, 2010
1. You said that I’m taking to long to respond to your post. That’s because I have a life and it’s obvious that jan-pro is paying you allot of money $$$$$$ to post on here everyday and to stock this site 24 hours a day seven days a week. Even on Fathers day and 4th of July you find time to be here. I’m sure that you will also be here on New Years or Christmas. Does jan-pro pay you more money $$$ to post on holidays?
2. When our trial starts we will have so much overwhelming evidence that you will be shocked at all the evidence. I also hope that the Attorney General gets involved because crimes have been committed and I wouldn’t be surprised if they come after jan-pro for violations of the Rico and Racketeering acts.
3. You said that you can reform jan-pro and make some magical changes. Who are you ? You say that you are not with jan-pro then you protect them like if you owned the company but you attack Richard kissane. Then you said that Jan-pro was going to FIRE you but before they FIRED you, you ran and now you say that you are outlining something to reform jan-pro. Who are you and what the hell are you talking about? What is your full complete NAME???
4. Like I said before the Fdd is a scam. Jan-pros attorneys agreed with me when I said that it was hard to understand. Even they have a hard time understanding it. Ask yourself what if they had tricked your MOM into being a SLAVE? Would that be legal? Of course not. I bet that if jan-pro had ripped-off your Mom you would be mad to wouldn’t you. Ask yourself jerry from Indiana what if they had ripped-off your Mom?
5. You accuse me of not running my business right. Again you try and be Deceptive and tell LIES. What jan-pro did was underbid the accounts so low that it was lower than the minimum wage of a third world countries minimum wage. If you don’t accept the accounts you are offered because they are so badly underbid you are screwed and your money LOST for Ever! This is a RACKET!
6. You say that I lost my accounts. Again you LIE. I never lost any accounts. Why do you LIE so much. People don’t loose accounts they have them stolen.
7. Again this was a Ponzi Scheme. We got scammed. Even a Judge described it as a modified Ponsi Scheme. It’s not just me who got ribbed it’s Thousands of people from all around the country who got scammed in this Ponsi Scheme. I have received calls from people in 26 Different states and 3 different parts of Canada!
8. Here is another LIE you say about me. You said that I was someone who also sued coverall 10 years ago. Again you are a LIAR. Why do you LIE so much. You are a Deceptive LIAR. Did you learn to LIE at Jan-pro? I have never sued coverall or been part of them. I have never sued anybody. Jan-pro is the first company to SCAM me out of my money. Do you like being Deceptive and being a LIAR?
9. You said that if you have slandered us that we should sue you. Is that what you really want? It’s something to think about. Why don’t you e-mail me your real name and adress and I will think about it. Of course you probably wont.
10. You continue to attack our attorneys and our case so much. Jan-pro must be paying you allot of money $$$$$$ How much is jan-pro paying you $$$ ? Why do you get so Angry and so Mad when I tell you about all the single Moms, Veterans and families that jan-pro has ripped-off ? I know why. It’s because it’s the truth and you can’t handle the truth!
1st amendment, Jerry “v”, Iloveamerica and friend of “guest”:
1. Why do I need to reveal myself, on several different posts, you claim to know me, to have “contacts” who know me. I’ve told you plenty of times, go ahead, tell everyone who I am!!!!
2. Moms, daughters, aunts, uncles, friends, enemies, veterans, homeless people, illegal aliens, labor union members, black, white, brown, hispanic, americans, italians, dutch etc….. All of the above have failed with Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall etc…. All of the above have found greatness with Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall etc… Greatness is defined by building a business, building and taking advantage of an opportunity, putting a child through college with the proceeds of the business, buying a home with the proceeds, buying a new car with the proceeds, making a GREAT second or in some cases GREAT main income.
3. You failed, you want to blame everyone but yourself. You want to say, “because I paid this$, I should have been guaranteed$” REALLY, if life were only that easy.
4. You’re bitter, you’ve LOST. Your attorney’s, your union friends, your “phone a friends”, your “people”, your “illegal aliens” will all abandon you soon. Look at yourself in the mirror, look at the despair, feel the “pain”, clear the “monkey dung” from your eyes, strap on your suspenders and pull yourself up by the boot straps! You want to learn this business, want to build a livelihood in this business, let me know, I’ll help you.
5. Sue me if you want to, other than the “truth” what are you going to “sue” me for. Maybe you should have the “goons” from the SEIU that you are “friends” with, come and visit me like they do others in the industry such as David Bego with EMS.
No money paid to me, no vested interest in any of the big “3″, honest broker with 25 years commercial cleaning experience, stating written facts on a daily basis. Is a major problem for you and your attorney’s, SEIU buddies, band of “disgruntled owner/operators” and the band of “illegal aliens” you and the SEIU are attempting to hide.
well i dont know what is going on but central jersey JAN-PRO is cakin i Make 100,000 a year with them so mabe ya aint cleaning cleaning but wait ur right ur just with the wrong jan pro cuz we #1 over here get on board every1 else is……..lol taken ppl money thay shot out
you idiots dont make money cuz u cant a hourly rate if they give say1200 for 4 hours and yes they deduct but if u pay attention that rate is for 1cleaner u fools bring 6 ppl and think u pose to get paid extra no damit u clean first get in the rythme then bring some body along dont take a job cleaning once a week and payin $500 agin u gotta shit load of ppl u breaking ur self not jan pro your the idiot for signing the contract and you get ur money back they prey on stupid fuck like u idiots not they aint call you to jion u call them didnt ya momma eva tell ya research first and read before u sign…………I LOVE MY FRANCHISE GLAD I CHOSE THE RIGHT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!LOL
Guest: Are you going to “correct” OhYoUfAnCyHuH’s spelling and grammer errors? I would really like to see you do that and actually give him your home address, phone number, email etc… Just keeping it even and real!!!!! Double dog dare ya!
To the jan-pro person in New Jersey that goes by the following name (ohyoufancyhuh) What ever that means ???
Is that a Gang Name ?
It’s probably j from Indiana.
Just so you know I get many calls from people in NEW JERSEY ! People in New Jersey are getting ripped-off.
The stories that I have heard from People in New Jersey are trully tragic.
I have had families call me from NEW JERSEY and tell me that they are getting ripped-off, there accounts stollen, Intimidates and Harrased!
I have heard how you take accounts away from people. I have heard how you underbid accounts.
New Jersey has allot of problems and it’s the same all over the country.
Anybody looking at buying a jan-pro franchise just look at the previus post and all the Gang Banger lingo they use. That is the kind of people you will have to deal with if you buy a Fake franchise with jan-pro.
Just look at what they will call you if you join jan-pro. What this person from New Jersey called us =
(ohyoufancyhuh) ” your the idiot for signing the contract and you get ur money back they prey on stupid fuck like u idiots ”
Do you want to deal with this if you buy a Fake franchise with jan-pro?
1st amendment: Wow, how disrespectful to the tens of thousands owner/operators working hard throughout the country every night, doing their business, building their business, living the american dream and doing things the right way.
Obviously, this person from New Jersey made it!!!!! He understood the FDD, he understood the UFOC, he made his phone calls, he did his due dilligence, he did things the right way and is making money.
What does that say about you?
Don’t you feel STUPID now?
“all over the country” when did we lose 25 or so states, or have you spoken to everyone in every state. I lose track! You and Guest are a RIOT!!!!
“Are you going to “correct” OhYoUfAnCyHuH’s spelling and grammer errors?”
He’s from New Jersey, for crissake. I don’t make fun of the kids in the short bus (except when it’s humerous).
Guest: Well, ok. But you”re not consistent. I’m wondering how 1st amendment is going to tell a judge now, that he was “unitelligent” when it came to understanding the FDD, UFOC and Jan-Pro’s attorneys will be able to pull the above “post” and ask him how OhYoUfAnCyHuH could understand it and he couldn’t.
You should work with him on that before you both go to court.
To jerry the looney monkey in Indiana who says that he is waching me and that he is going to come and get me.
In response to one of your June 30, 2010 comments
You say that you have been in this business for 25 years then why were you working for jan-pro? Shouldn’t you have your own business with 100 employees. I guess its much easier for you to be a goon for jan-pro than to do real work. The best advice you should have given Lee is to stay away from cleaning franchisors because they control you and they can take all of your accounts away at any time for any reason. I have witnessed managers get mad and just want to take accounts away from people for no reason. Just read all the comments all over the internet of all the people who have been ripped-off.
To Jerry ?? From Indiana ??
Who said that he is waching me and that he is going to come and get me!
So is jan-pro now hiring gang bangers to come in here and intimidate us. Is that the low that jan-pro is coming down to.
Are you going to also hire Gang Bangers to come after single Moms, Veterans and families?
It looks like you have no morals.
Hopefully Lee is a veteran. After he loses everything when Jan-Pro gives his accounts to another sucker, I mean, independent franchise owner, at least Jerry will buy him a hot meal to thank him for his service.
1st amendment: Will you quit jumping “posts” I think I already responded to your earlier one, trying to make fun of my limited skills because I don’t own my own company any more. I think I told you this already, been there done that!!!!!! 8 Years in Florida, 150 plus full and part-time, know all the machines, know all the lingo, know how to do all the work (more than I can say for you, guest, SEIU members, your attorney’s) If I forgot to insult anyone, I’m sorry.
Gang Bangers, really! Just because someone speaks differently than you and I, because they understand things you don’t, you want to “classify them”. Surprising with someone having the last name of “Vasquez”, I figured you would be more tolerant. You support openly the illegal aliens that hid their faces in the telemundo show, but then you say Jan-Pro threatened them into doing that. Could it have been ICE was their real threat.
I thought we agreed to drop the “Veteran” angle earlier. Obviously, you have no morals.
To jerry is that his real name?? From Indiana is he really from there or Florida??
Who said that he is GOING TO COME and GET ME!
Now your mad that I’m responding to all of your post. Before when I was bussy and wasn’t able to come in here you were talking all kinds of crap and posting that I had gone awol and that i had disapeared, LOL. Was that the best you could do or say????????????????/
Now that I have a litle bit of time I come in here and respond to all your LIES and all your bable and you Cry like a little monkey!
Your trying to LIE to us and tell us that you owned your own company, LOL!
Then you say that you had 150 workers LOL! I don’t believe a word you say. All you do is LIE and make things up.
Someone has a company with 150 workers in Florida and then they move to Indiana to work as a manager for jan-pro ????????????
Holy moly what a story !
Get your stories straight before you post them and quit Lying so much.
Yes I said gang Bangers they sounded like one and most likely are one and you are probably one to since you said that you are going to watch me everyday and come GET ME !
By the way you misspelled my last name. You have been misspeling my last name this whole time. I’m sure its not your fault that you Misspelled my last name. Someone at jan-pro corporate probably misspelled it when they gave you my information. Will you ever tell us how much money jan-pro is paying you $$$$$$.
I can tell that you are mad that I posted the link to the ladies who got ripped-off by jan-pro. All I did was post it here and now you are MAD! Does it bother you that your company jan-pro is being exposed on Television? That was alot of people who came on that show that were getting ripped-off. Your freind Richard Kissane said that they have more lawsuits. They also showed more lawsuits on the show. Jan-pro also said that they would take care of there problems and they still haven’t and it has been months. Again jan-pro LIES just like you!
Why did they hide there faces? Because jan-pro Intimidates people and harrases them. Even you said that you are going to watch me everyday and that you are going to come and GET ME. Sounds like the MOB to me.
What is also hapening is that jan-pro is taking advantage of people who don’t speak english that well. Is that the new low? Take peoples money and then give them checks that BOUNCE! Then if they complain Kick the Ladies out! Thats jan-pro they will mess with women and Veterans.
I got you on another LIE. Your LIES just keep on coming! When will you stop Lying so much? Now you said that I agreed to drop the veteran isue????????
I never said that you LIARRR !!!! You Deceptive LIARRRR !!!
Why are you so afraid to talk about what has hapened to them. What are you trying to hide
You are mad because I told you that I talked to a veteran that got ripped-off Thousands of Dollars and he told me that he hired an attorney and was planing a class action Lawsuit!
Stop being so Deceptive and being such a LIAR !
—– Easy, Easy. Everybody take a deep breath —–
Jerry: I’m curious. You say you have vast amounts of experience running a cleaning company. And you believe that the Jan-Pro franchise is a great opportunity in a great industry.
Why is it that YOU are not a Jan-Pro franchisee? Why would you be content to collect a Jan-Pro paycheck when you could be putting both your vast experience and the powerful Jan-Pro system to work for immense profit?
Also, exactly what is your schedule with Jan-Pro? Do you actually sign on here from work?
I’m looking forward to learning more…
1st amendment, Jerry “v”, Iloveamerica, friend of “guest” and “guest”. Sorry, I’m having to pull triple duty tonight. My first Operations Manager has his KKK meeting the 2nd Friday of the month, My second Operations Manager has his Black Panther/SEIU meeting on the 1st Friday of the month, but last Friday was a holiday so both meetings fell on today.
Also, the “master” and I had to go down in the basement and “unchain” the last group of “future owner/operators” because their 10 days were up and we could honestly “cash” the checks from those capable of signing their names. Then we had to chain up the children for our next group of “future owner/operators” and “start the clock” on their 10 days.
What was the question? Oh yes, I’m a Liar, that’s right, that’s me. I’m a liar. ok you found me out. When you get serious and want to have a decent, honest, open discussion about franchising in general and more specifically commercial cleaning franchising. fine. I’m your boy, I’m your “huckleberry” as we say in the South.
Guest: I’m sorry when did you reveal yourself? Since Jerry “v”, Iloveamerica, 1st amendment, friend of “guest” and SEIU member is on me about telling him my name, I thought you’d have to do the same.
Oh, but you two already know one another don’t you. Well obviously, you haven’t been paying attention, I explained like a week ago at least, why I wouldn’t need to purchase a “franchise” from Jan-Pro, Jani-King etc… Why would someone with 25 years experience, past owner, past regional manager, past vice-president, past District Manager need to have a “franchise”?
Now there’s some more information on me. Waiting for you to “eat crow”.
To someone who calls himself jerry ?? Who says that he is from Indiana or Florida?? Who says that he is going to come and GET ME !
No I’m not with the SEIU. I simply saw an article and posted it on the janiking section and you FREACKED OUT ! LOL ! You Freacked out because I posted this article.
When I saw that you freacked out when I posted that article on the janiking complaints section that just proved to me that you are working for the fake cleaning franchisors.
All these articles must be driving you crazy. I laugh when you say that the only thing I can do is put these articles that show how these cleaning franchisors hurt so many people. I guess you can’t handle the Truth!
You said that you wouldn’t buy a fake cleaning franchise because there is no money in them. Now your trying to change your story.
If you had your own business and so many years of experience why were you working for jan-pro ????
When people ask if they should buy a fake cleaning franchise you PUMP them up into buying one but you would never ever buy one ?????
Would you let your Mom buy one? of course not.
Would you let your Kids buy one? Hell no.
would you let your family buy one No Way.
But you PUMP other people into buying one!
1st amendment, Jerry “v”, Iloveamerica, friend of “guest”, SEIU leader:
Now that the “chatter” has stopped, I think it’s time to recap for all of those that have lost track and so we can get back on topic: Why and How you are going to lose your case against Jan-Pro.
1. FDD was/is “too difficult”. Were you given a copy? Yes Were you allowed to take it with you? Yes Were you given at least 10 days before you were contacted by anyone with Jan-Pro asking if you were interested in becoming a Jan-Pro owner/operator? Yes During that period, at least 10 days, that you had a full copy of the FDD, did you have an opportunity to do due dilligence? Yes
2. Training was a “joke”. Were you given at least 14 hours of training, that time included DVD watching, classroom, hands on, training manual taken home to read? Yes
3. They didn’t give me information about my future customer. REALLY, then how did you know where your “future customer” was, how did you know what building to clean, how did you get in, how did you disarm the alarm, how did you know what lights to turn on/off, where was the janitorial closet, the communication logbook, the customers contact information. Only problem with your statement is, Jan-Pro has a copy of your “account information and acceptance” sheet/form signed by you.
4. They told me never to speak with the customer. REALLY, then why would they take the time in the DVD you didn’t watch, in the training you didn’t receive, in the book you didn’t get to go line item by line item what YOU needed to do/should do as far as interaction with the customer after a) the first clean b) after the 1st week c) after the 1st month and every month after that. d) How about that “pesky” customer evaluation form that you were to have signed and turned in each month?
5. They “underbid” every account. REALLY, well even in your Jan-Pro regional office, there is a file cabinet, file boxes located in the sales area filled with proposals that Jan-Pro didn’t get. So if they “underbid” every account, shouldn’t they have gotten EVERY ACCOUNT.
6. They “stole” my “underbid” account and gave it to another “franchisee”. REALLY, I’m sorry, if you had developed a proper relationship as outlined in the Policy and Procedures part of your manual (that you can’t read, couldn’t understand, too difficult, was too unintelligent) how would that customer “allow” Jan-Pro to “steal” that account from you. Are you now suggesting that the customer and Jan-Pro are in “bed” together.
7. They violated RICO statues. REALLY. Which one’s. That’s a Federal Offense, I’m sure that the FBI would be interested in that, what about the attorney general? If that was the case, why isn’t Rich Kissane in jail? (Not that I would personally have a problem with a LEECH like Kissane in jail, but not for your reasoning).
Honestly, I wouldn’t give a damn about you and/or your lawsuit except for the fact of the tens of thousands current owner/operators doing their best to make things happen for themselves, their families. How about the masters that are doing things the right way, How about the Jan-Pro employee’s that are doing things the right way. You say everyone associated with Jan-Pro or any of the “Big 3″ are corrupt, mean spirited, Liars, unethical, worthless etc…. REALLY.
To jerry ?? Someone who says that he is from Indiana or Florida ?? Who says that he is watching me and that he is going to come and get me!
In response to the second blabbery comment that he posted on June 30, 2010
Yes I do know who you are. You are a goon for jan-pro that is getting paid a lot of money $$$$$$ to come in here and attack the good Americans who got ripped-off by jan-pro.
Will you come forward and reveal your real name? Your full real name? Will you tell us how much money $$$$$$ jan-pro is paying you?
No one spends everyday 7 days a week and all hours of the day posting everyday. Sometimes you have posted 3 times in one day. For you to be constantly stocking this site you have to be getting paid a lot of money $$$$$$ from jan-pro.
You say that you have showed us how jan-pro bids. Again more blab, more Lies from you. All you do is LIE, LIE and LIE. Haven’t you read all the post of all the different people in all the different websites that say the same thing over and over on how jan-pro bids the jobs so LOW. This is because jan pro doesn’t have to do the work. It’s not just me saying that it’s the hundreds of post that you see all over the internet.
We have the proof that jan-pro underbids accounts.
We have the proof that jan-pro steals accounts.
We have the proof that this is a Racket and Ponzi scheme.
We have so much evidence that it will singe the behind of a monkeys back.
I noticed that when I said that God would be the Final Judge you became very defensive. Does it bother you that I mentioned that ? You must not have a clean conscious.
Are you afraid of facing two Juries the one here on earth and the one up in the heavens? What are you going to do if we get the Attorney General involved? What are you going to do if you have to face Rico and Racketeering charges?
It seems like you are desperate and it seems like you are starting to get worried. You talked about reforming jan-pro, oh wait a minute didn’t you say that you were no longer with jan-pro but somehow in someway you want to reform jan-pro. It sounds like you are still working for jan-pro. How are you going to reform it? Are you going to bid accounts appropriately? Are you going to stop stealing accounts away from single Moms, Veterans and hard working American families? Are you going to stop giving people fines of $50 Dollars for not returning a call to jan-pro after two hours? Are you going to stop harassing people and intimidating them? Will you stop the Racket? I guess that if you can reform jan-pro you must be with Corporate. That means that this whole time you have been part of the Ponzi Scheme.
Your last two booboos comments are why I keep calling you a monkey on crack who just basically says anything that comes out of his ass, but I also think that there is something very seriously wrong with your head. You said the following =
“““ In closing, you and I are on the same “TEAM” Your way, you lose. Because you are “all in” and no place to go. I really don’t wish you “Good Luck” because of what it will mean if you win. ”””
First of all we are not on the same TEAM. I hope people read this because this is the kind of Deceptive and Fraudulent scams that jan-pro pulls on people. You have got to be seriously brain damaged or you are just being Deceptive to say that we are in the same team. You also say that you hope that we loose our case. You are saying that we are in the same team but that you hope that we loose. You are sounding just like Bernie Madoff. You are sounding just like Ponzi Scheme the Judge talked about.
1st amendment, Jerry “v”, SEIU member, friend of “guest”, guest, Iloveamerica, illegal alien, monkey master:
You are at least a week behind, at this rate, your “trail” will be over, you’ll be crying by yourself, in the corner, asking “why me” lord “why me”. No problem mentioning GOD on my end. Don’t lose sleep at night, Don’t worry about what I’ve said here, sorry you can’t follow, sorry you can’t read an FDD, sorry you can’t follow simple instructions, sorry you lost your accounts because you were too busy “posting” what a rip-off Jan-Pro was, sorry you were busy answering phone calls from all 25 states, speaking to widows, speaking to illegal aliens, speaking to other unitelligent, disgruntled owner/operators until all hours at night that you were supposed to be serving YOUR customer.
Sorry you don’t know how jobs are bid, sorry you can’t read, sorry you don’t understand english, sorry you can’t spell, sorry that you are on the “short bus” (oops my bad, that’s me) sorry that you are a liar (oops me again) sorry that Jan-Pro chained you to the floor for 10 days until you gave up your 10K(oops that’s what I did tonight while my one Operations Manager was at his KKK meeting and the other one was at his Black Panther/SEIU meeting). Need to stop, making myself laugh too hard.
Guest: What happened to you? Still trying to figure out who I am? How do I know so much? Have you discovered it yet? Can’t sleep tonight, waiting for your response, waiting for your apology, waiting for your attack.
Did you send SEIU “goons” to my home?
Did you send a package full of “monkey dung” via FedEx?
Did you “cut and paste” more bits and pieces of “half truths”?
Are you meeting with your “council of attorney’s”?
Did you call your SEIU friends and ask for more union dues sent to you?
Did you go to sleep? How can you sleep? Did Jerry “v” come over and spend the night?
Are you busy bringing in more illegal alliens via the “short buses”?
To anyone considering a Jan-Pro (or similar)franchise:
Read Jerry’s manic comments. This is the level of rational thought, reason, professionalism and mental stability of the people in whose hands you will place your savings… and your future.
Take a look at how he dismisses the legitimate franchisee complaints 3-4 comments before this one (July 9th, 2010 8:25 pm). When you have legitimate complaints (and you will) about inadequate training, about not receiving the number or quality of jobs you were promised, about having jobs taken away unjustly despite no fault of your own… these will be the answers that await you. The Jerry’s of Jan-Pro (or Jani-King or Coverall) will expertly and convincingly let everyone know it is your fault, your failure, your inadequacy.
Despite the numerous identical complaints for years about the churning of accounts, they are experts at deflecting the blame onto the trusting franchise owner. Why so good at it? Because they get so much practice.
Guest: You are amazing at attempting to “turn” things aren’t you. Still think you’re an attorney because you don’t know squat about business, especially the commercial cleaning business, you don’t understand figures either. So for all of those in California, New York, Massachusetts and other “bastions” of liberal thoguht, Soaring SEIU membership, Soaring illegal alien activity and lack of common sense run through things in a simplistic and understandable way.
Guest you need to pay attention:
1. Currently the commercial cleaning industry is a 10 Billion dollar per year industry in the United States. (Mexico not so much)
2. The “big 3″ owner/operator systems currently do less than 10% of the total amount of business throughout the United States.
3. The “big 3″ have an average “turnover rate” of owner/operators of less than 10% per year for comparision a “traditional company” is having a good year with 100% employee turnover!
4. The “big 3″ have a 95% retention rate of customers who want to continue services when their contract is up. “traditional companies” are running well if they have an 85% retention rate of customers.
5. The “big 3″ do constant inspections, have constant contact with customers, have constant communication with owner/operators and in all “3″ Policy and Procedures it is written that they encourage communication, relationship building, daily/weekly/monthly communication between the owner/operator and the customer.
6. Every Night in the United States, there are over thirty (30) thousand owner/operators cleaning facilities and doing it the “right way”. On this blog, on other blogs you will see a “handful” at best of disgruntled/former owner/operators who didn’t do what they needed to in order to operate, grow and maintain their business.
7. Right now, based upon what I have “researched” current “lawsuits” against the big “3″ have less than 100 total/actual plantiffs. Let me do the math for Guest and 1st amendment , that’s less than .03% against the total number of owner/operators in the system currently for the big “3″.
8. Unions, Illegal Alien Supporters, Attorneys (looking for a big pay day) are the one’s primarily “driving” the lawsuits whether that be by financially paying for the attorney’s, whether they see “opportunity” or whether they see “its easier to blame others” for their loss.
Guest, take your time, get with Liz and the others in your firm and let me know when to expect the SEIU “goons” to show up.
1st amendment, Friend of “guest”, Jerry “v” , SEIU board member, illegal allien supporter, Iloveamerica and Pimp my “attorney”.
Hope that you had a restful night, but let me guess, you were busy talking with more veterans, more illegal aliens, more widows, more people on food stamps from all 25 states and you contacted “guest” wondering what the “short bus” means.
Well, still waiting for you to respond to my earlier post where I went line item by line item on where you fell short on your ability to own and properly operate your company.
Take your time, call Liz, call your other attorneys, get “guest” on the phone, make sure you call Telemundo and remind them of all the illegal aliens you have living in your house and then respond.
Jerry, I take offense to the comment that you say we are all at best disgruntled and didn’t do things properly. I assure you I read the FDD and know what my responsabilities and rights where and what Jan-Pro’s where. I flat out paid a franchise fee and ended up with severely underbid accounts. I had the right to inspect accounts, walk thru before I accepted accounts and I did. Jan-Pro also has the right to offer me these accounts, allow me to walk thru, allow me to deny one, and if I deny any more have me sign a non-acceptance agreement and count that against my business owed. Well I denied the first one (no big deal), I denied the second one (it got deducted from their obligation), after that what do you think I did.. I started to take them so I could recoup at least some of my investment. They were severly inder bid and I lost money every month after expenses. Now you can say I lost money because I didn’t know what I was doing etc. But I now own the largest company in a 3 county area where I reside. I signed the contract because I trusted that they would supply me with modestly bid accounts and execute their agreement in good faith, not use the contract and their procedures to screw me. I complained, rationally explained my frustrations and asked for a reasonable way to resolve the issue. I was threatened with attorneys numerous times, had accounts taken..(I assure you I followed all their procedures, in fact I still have copies of inspections etc in a cabinet.) They flat out screwed me. So we all are not full of shit.I got out because I had to hire an attorney to get me out of the contract. Since then I’ve had numerous people call me and ask me how to get out. I didn’t solicit them. Now I also signed on when Jan Pro first came to town so I didn’t have a bunch of people to call in the FDD. However its been around for years now and 75 percent of the people I know of are unhappy. I recently got my hands on this years FDD. Of all the unhappy past franchises I know of in my time there everyones information including my own is inaccurate except 3, including my own. I assure you this is on purpose because I have received dozens of threatening(not physical) phone calls and letters at my accurate address, as did the others. This is fact regardless if you believe it or not.
Joe A: Good for you. Obviously, you learned how to bid jobs well enough to understand that it does no one any good to do so, especially the customer which at the end of the day is the one we all “serve”. I’m sorry that you had a bad experience at your “master run” area. I’ve said it numerous times, I guess I’ll have to “say it again”.
1. There are Masters in this system that don’t run things the right way.
2. Jan-Pro International needs to/must do a better job of training, teaching, administrating, fining, suspending, facilitate the sell and/or take over those Masters that are not doing things the correct way.
3. FDD is a document, pieces of paper with words on them. However, if you do everything in the Policy and Procedures area of that document. You will be succesful the vast majority of the time.
4. Your offense is noted. But let me ask you this question. Why are you still made? You made it, you’ve got what you wanted at the end of the day correct? You own the largest company in three counties. (your words) If you are that size, what do you care about Jan-Pro and/or their supposed attorneys writing you letters and calling you. By the way, if your information is “incorrect” then how do dozens of people contact you asking you for your advice on “how to get out”.
If you’re going to “jump in” the middle, at least take the time to read the previous postings.
To anyone considering a Jan-Pro or other janitorial franchise:
Slow down the fast talk, check the facts and you’ll see the truth. Jerry continues to provide examples of slick franchise sale’s tricks. For instance, they make up statistics and state them as fact. Note how he never gives a sources for his statistics.
He claims that every one of “thirty (30) thousand owner/operators cleaning facilities and doing it the ‘right way’” Even if there were 30K ACTIVE owner/operators (there aren’t), there’s no basis to assume they all have cleaning jobs every night (many report not having received promised jobs for months) and certainly no way of knowing that they are doing it right.
When the franchise times writer called hundreds of janitorial franchisees listed in the UFOCs she found that a tiny minority were actively in business.
They use silly little tricks like putting numbers in parentheses (thirty (30) thousand) to make bogus stats seem official.
Always ask franchise salespeople for the primary source of the statistics they spew as fact. Ask Jerry for concrete proof of these stats and watch the doubletalk begin.
Another trick is apples to oranges comparisons. He compares the turnover of employees to “turnover” of business owners. There is no “turnover” of franchisees – there are only people who lost their investments.
An extra despicable example of how they lie with statistics is Jerry’s statement that “95% retention rate of customers who want to continue services when their contract is up.” Say a franchisor gives an account to Franchisee A in January, takes it away and gives it to Franchisee B in June, then takes it away and gives it to Franchisee C in September, it will reflect a 100% retention rate for the franchisor but multiple franchisees will have lost their accounts and their investments supposedly due to unhappy customers who never complained at all.
People like Jerry know this full well, but they are masters of using bogus statistics to sell their bogus franchises.
Joe A: Just a “side note” I would like for you to file suit against your past “local master owner” you have a very good chance of winning on the following point:
1. NO where in the FDD does it state that the “obligation” is removed from the Master/Regional Office if an owner/operator “turns down” the work offered. Now, let me explain the “real words”. IF you decide not to accept the facility offered or work offered to you, that amount of “obligation owed” is taken “off the clock”. You are still owed the full amount of the package. It just simply means that portion is takend “off the clock”.
If you decide to sue, please let me know where I can come and testify on your behalf.
Guest: The nonsense you are “spewing” is getting a little “desperate” sounding.
1. I encourage everyone to do research on what I’ve said. Don’t trust me, don’t trust guest, don’t trust 1st amendment or anyone else posting on this site as everything being stated as fact!!!!!
2. I would love for all of the “big 3″ to post their FDD and thier Policy and Procedures aspects on-line and on their websites. But they can’t and won’t for a variety of reasons. But wait, there’s a way for you to get the document and review it on your own, at your own speed, take to someone for their opinion and thoughts. YOU can go to a presentation at any of these companies FREE OF CHARGE!!!!!
3. I have stated here numerous times, that if you don’t like what you READ, HEAR, FEEL, SMELL, Find out etc… IF that Master/Regional office isn’t proud of their staff, if you don’t meet the Operations Team, Sales Team etc… prior to signing, DON’T SIGN!!!!!!!!
Guest, I don’t know where you come from (yes i do), but where I come from, we encourage people to do research, homework, check facts, look at who they are “investing” with, verify everything and TRUST no one. Guest, that includes you and 1st amendment especially.
Guest: One other “note” on your “spewing” and “skewing”.
Customer retention is monitored quite easily. Do we keep the customer for another Year!!!!!!! Doesn’t matter, how many owner/operators may be in the mix, though we try hard to make it the same owner/operator.
It would be quite foolish of you and your merry band/council of attorneys to make a statement of fact about all of the “10% turnover” is directly due to “lost investments”. I would like for you to “prove” that. When you can’t, can I expect a “retraction” or simple apology will do.
Try to read and keep up. Quit sending this to everyone else in your firm. Try responding on your own for once and by the way, did you ever explain to 1st amendment what a “dishonest broker” was or about the people on the “short bus”? Just asking.
The people who have called me are ones that I personally knew.
I am not mad, I have no desire to sue Jan-Pro. Lawsuits are very costly and time consuming. My resources can be better spent elsewhere.
I am not mad. I just am voicing my experience with Jan-Pro. I have no desire to jump in the middle of anything. I don’t care. The FDD is only words like you said. That does not mean the Master has to follow them. The master threatened with attorneys. Not everyone can afford an attorney to fight back.
I’m not saying all franchises are bad. But let’s be fair and allow people with bad experiences to tell about it so future investors can see what they may be in for. I’m sure there are 30k happy owner/operators. Shouldn’t the unhappy ones be allowed to tell their experiences?
Joe A: Yes, without a doubt and they have my full support, understanding and wish their was a way I could “undo” what happened to them. However, this site like numerous others are filled with “dishonest brokers”. People such as 1st amendment, Jerry”v”, Iloveamerica, “guest” etc…. These people have an agenda, an agenda that if allowed to go “unchecked” would translate into an unfair “balance” of the owner/operator system as a whole.
Let me “sum” this up. I’m here battling the “nonsense” that is “spewing” from people like Jerry “v” and “guest” because they take their “issues” to the extreme. That’s not fair and balanced, that’s like CBS News, NBC News, CNN, ABC, PBS, MSNBC try to be with the American People on a Nightly/Daily Basis. I’m like Fox.
I report the facts, you decide, you verify, you research, you ask questions and here’s a new one “MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND!!!!” I tell it like it is, don’t trust me, don’t trust them, do research, do homework, do everything I’ve stated , Then DECIDE on your own, with your own FREE WILL!!!!!
To anyone considering a Jan-Pro or other janitorial franchise:
Joe A’s comment on July 10th, 2010 11:09 am gives an excellent account of the way the scam works.
“I flat out paid a franchise fee and ended up with severely underbid accounts. I had the right to inspect accounts, walk thru before I accepted accounts and I did. Jan-Pro also has the right to offer me these accounts, allow me to walk thru, allow me to deny one, and if I deny any more have me sign a non-acceptance agreement and count that against my business owed. Well I denied the first one (no big deal), I denied the second one (it got deducted from their obligation), after that what do you think I did.. I started to take them so I could recoup at least some of my investment. They were severly inder bid and I lost money every month after expenses. …
“I complained, rationally explained my frustrations and asked for a reasonable way to resolve the issue. I was threatened with attorneys numerous times, had accounts taken..(I assure you I followed all their procedures, in fact I still have copies of inspections etc in a cabinet.) They flat out screwed me.”
Jerry of Jan-Pro flat out admits that they don’t care how many times they churn the account as long as they get their franchise fees. Says Jerry: “Customer retention is monitored quite easily. Do we keep the customer for another Year!!!!!!! Doesn’t matter, how many owner/operators may be in the mix”
In fact, the cash register rings every time a franchisee refuses an unprofitable job or has one taken away. It might not matter to Jerry or Jan-Pro “how many owner/operators may be in the mix” , but it matters to the franchise owners who regret trusting them.
Guest: Now you “sneaky” little person you: There you go again acting just like the attorney that I believe that you are. May I ask you a simple question? Why are you wastig your time on this site? Could it be the SEIU union dues that you accept as payment for the “churning” of this site are getting smaller and smaller?
Funny how you left out the rest of the “phrase”. Of course, unfortunately for you, people still have the ability to read it for themselves.
Surprised that you didn’t comment about my last posting over at the “jani-king” portion of this site. I felt you would be distrubed by the content. Obviously not.
If you had any knowledge at all about a typical Jan-Pro office, you’d know we don’t have “cash registers”.
Well, I guess you finally admitted that most of your case and therefore 1st amendments case was a total lie when you admitted the following truths:
1. Joe A. like all Jan-Pro owner/operators had the right to walk the accounts prior to acceptance or decline.
2. Joe A. like all Jan-Pro owner/oprators had to sign an accept or decline paperwork for the account they accepted or declined.
3. Joe A. like all Jan-Pro owner/operators had an obligation to get inspection reports, customer surveys, have contact with their customers on a regular basis.
Now where I offered to come and assist in Joe A. possible lawsuit that so far he hasn’t accepted, was where Joe A. stated that once he started declining accounts those “dollars” were taken off his “business owed”. I pointed out that if that happened, he should sue, he would win and I would assist him if that happened.
Guest, you being an attorney should know better that even in the court of “public opinion” people can read for themselves. Especially when the postings are so close together. Thank you for showing these people reading these posts the type of person you are. Low Quality, No Morals, Lie/Cheat/Steal. They don’t nickname attorneys “shysters” for nothing do they.
Can’t wait till your next post. I’ll check back in two hours or so, I know it takes you a while to digest, rethink, call your council together, attempt to coordinate your ‘attacks” and still get beat by me within a matter of seconds.
More to come………….
I was curious so I went and found a non-acceptance agreement. Jerry, you were riight they still owed me the business at their “discretion”. However, I am positive this would have taken forever since they signed on a dozen franchises they owed business to. The only person I heard of who received ‘good’ accounts was someone who bought the 200k package in cash. All the good work went his way. I understand he had an obligation to give 200k worth of business to him but he also had an obligation to give good business to the rest of the people he had no problem signing on. “He” is the master by the way. In fairness they did have profitable accounts. The 125 dollar a month once a weekers. These were great until they decided to implement a policy that each account had to be fully stocked on site with a commercial vacuum, dolly, etc and equipment couldn’t be transfered by vehicle to and from these small accounts. That sort of ruined them because it took a year to cover equipment costs.
And guest… I did say there are happy franchisees. I don’t believe every single master is a con. However, I think more than we care to believe are.
Joe A
Dont allow to much time to go by if you are due accounts, or you will be placed on hold forever. Read the contract again, it containes information you can use.
I suggest you go with the operations manager when they visit your accounts, protect your interest.
Joe A: Thank you for being an “honest broker” and admitting that what I was saying was “true”. I honestly can’t say what “someone” else would do in regards to “filling your package”. But I can honestly comment on what happens.
1. Obviously, it takes time and effort for Operations people or Sales people to schedule, show, explain and view those accounts with the potential owner/operator. Each time an owner/operator turns down an account, it takes more time for those people to do the “showing”. I have believed best to do the following:
a) Take multiple owner/operators through the facilities together and at one-time. That way, you don’t have to show but once, you don’t have to explain yourself, take up the customers time etc… I have also suggested that those viewings be made after “business hours” as to not “disrupt” the customers daily operation. Going to the “site visit” you as the prosepctive owner/operator would know who had the right of “first refusal”, that would be based on geographical information, size of package owed, time to fill package etc…. That way you know upfront.
b) Those that “turn down” repeated accounts, must give Operations Manager in writing a general description of why they didn’t want the account, why they felt it wasn’t a “good fit”, what type of account they would prefer, location of the account they most desired and so on.
c) I totally agree with Former Jan-Pro Operations manager when he states” you go with the operations manager” when he/she makes site visits on your accounts. Everyone’s interest is protected that way. Most importantly the CUSTOMER.
Joe A. and Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager, I encourage you to find other “reasonable” parties to visit this site, it is great having an honest and open discussion and getting feedback that is both reasonable and helpful. If Rich Kissane and the others at Jan-Pro had an ounce of “sense” they would do something similar by which owner/operators without fear of retaliation, employees of “masters” , other “masters” could give/share information directly with the executives of Jan-Pro and get some immediate feedback and assistance in the “oversite” and “management” of the corporation as a whole.
Maybe one day, WEBSTER will wake up and “smell the coffee”.
To anybody looking at buying a fake cleaning franchise from jan-pro don’t do it.
I have received more calls from more people who keep getting there accounts stolen for no reason. Absolutely no reason! This is THEFT!
These people were doing a GREAT JOB CLEANING. The customers were very happy and jan-pro stole there accounts.
This is a RACKET. Don’t throw away your money. If you buy there fake franchise you own NOTHING!
They can and will take your accounts away so that they can sell them to someone else and make more Money. This is Theft and in violation of the Rico and Racketeering acts.
They will offer you accounts that are badly underbid and If you refuse these accounts that’s it your money is GONE! I have heard these stories over and over from people all across the country from 25 states and 3 different parts of Canada.
The calls keep coming in and the list keeps growing. The same problems, the same scam, the same Racket!
If you have been a victim of jan-pro please file a report with the Federal Trade Commission. http://www.FTC.Gov
You should also contact the Attorney General
1st amendment:
Obviously, your opinions are “skewed” and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt. I find it funny how “guest” still hasn’t responded to my earlier posts. Aren’t the two of you a “team”?
Just when I think we are getting somewhere, having reasonalbe talk and getting to the “heart of the matter” in you come with your same old, tired, obviously slanted statements to be taken as fact but without viable proof.
What you should be saying in order to be an “honest broker” (by the way, did “guest” take you to the side and define for you the term) is that you had a bad experience, things didn’t work out for you, that you wish you hadn’t purchased a Jan-Pro franchise, that you don’t believe the “master” that you had as your “support” was a good one.
But what do you say? You want to say that the people envolved have commited crimes, that they should be in jail, that the people that work for Jan-Pro International are “scum” etc….
You should have “sued” your “master owner” for breach of contract, you should have “sued” your “master owner” for violating the business standards that all businesses have to follow, you should have cited specifics by which you had “stolen items” from your company etc…. But did you? No. You fully admitted by omission the following:
1. You didn’t read the FDD and did not follow the Policy and Procedures section contained there in.
2. You didn’t do the things necessary to keep “your customer” happy. For if you had, no one, including/especially the local “master” would have been allowed too by the customer. In other words, if you had done “your job” as far as “customer relations”, building that relationship, doing the customer surveys, handling your customer as outlined in writing, THERE IS NO WAY!!!! Jan-Pro would have been able to “step in” and take the account from you, regardless of what they did/didn’t say. I found customers to be more loyal to the owner/operator than the “master” by a HUGE %.
3. You continue to blame others for your loss. You continue to blame Jan-Pro International, its employees, its managers etc.. for things they had no part of, no advance knowledge of, no direct say in etc…. What you should be hold Jan-Pro International and its management team to is as follows:
a) Proper handling and training of “master owners” and making sure that those “masters” are held to a “high standard” of operating, code of ethics and treat all owner/operators as “investors”.
b) When issues arise and that the arise continually, they must be addressed, they must be rectified and there must be a commitment not to let those same issues happen over and over, especially in the same “master units”.
c) When will Jan-Pro International begin to handle, train, oversee, administrate and discipline the “masters” to the same level as described in the Policy and Procedures do in regards to the “owner/operators”.
These are legitimate gripes, these are issues that should be addressed and need to be addressed. Your continued comments, your “outrageous” and “unprovable” charges , and your “attack” on anyone that disagrees with you are totally out of bounds and unbecoming of reasonable people.
Guest: Stil waiting for you to “weigh in”. Are you waiting for your “council of attorneys” approval, proof reading of your comments, seeing if you can find out any more information about me, seeing who you can contact, checking your notes etc….. 1st amendment is still busy calling me a Liar, Fraud, Cheat, Master Owner, comparing me and Jan-Pro International to Al Capone and other famous theives.
Just making sure you haven’t “ducked tail” and left.
To someone who calls himself jerry who said that he is waching me and that he is going to come and get ME !
Why does it bother you so much when I say that people from all over the United states of America have been calling me and telling how jan-pro keeps srealing there accounts for no reason.
Jan-pro steals there accounts away and you get mad when people tell the truth!
We have the evidence, we will prove this and you will see the evidence when we go to court!
1st amendment: Lord knows I hope you go to court soon. Maybe after you lose, then the “reforming” that I’ve been calling for will take place. Maybe after you lose, you and your “friends” will go on and attack “smokeless tobacco” or something else. Maybe after you lose, people like me will be able to get some things done that will positively impact the industry as a whole, will impact the thirty (30) thousand plus owner/operators currently in the systems of the “big 3″. Maybe after you lose, real progress can be made on issues that actually envolve more than you and less than .03% of all owner/operators currently “in the system”.
I don’t get mad when people tell the truth. I get mad when people make “blanket statements” and pretend it’s the truth ie… you and “guest”.
Not sure what “srealing” is but I would agree, there is not a reason to do that.
I don’t believe I ever said “I’m going to get you”. If I did, please “cut and paste” those comments and I will respond. As I said earlier, your “half truths” will continue to be exposed by me and hopefully soon others with reasonable tones, reasonable thoughts, wanting to do “right” by the majority and not simply looking out for themselves.
To someone who calls himself jerry??
Who says that he is from Indiana ??
Who said that he is WACHING ME ! and that he is GOING to come and GET ME!
You can come in here and jump up and down like a little monkey and try and argue that people who got ripped-off by jan-pro shouldn’t take legal. You are trying so HARD to change the facts and make us the bad people. Well in this country if someone rips you off and you talk to them about it and then they give you the finger you have the right to take legal action.
To jerry from Indiana we are not in a communist country were you can’t take legal action. For your information people in the United States of America get there day in court.
I know that you are so woried because you are part of jan-pro because you own a master franchise and you are now very woried of loosing this case.
The facts are this: jan-pro has stollen accounts away from people and that is theft. We have the proof!
If you have been a victim of jan-pro you can place a report by going to the Attorney General and also by filling a report with the Federal Trade Commision
http://www.Ftc.Gov or you can also join the class action lawsuit.
1st amendment:
1. Never said you didn’t have a right to “sue”.
2. Only “facts” being turned are yours, which aren’t really facts, they’re “blanket statements” that you want them to be factual. As I’ve already stated previously and this will be my final time making the following statements. You obviously don’t care, can’t understand, don’t want to understand, don’t believe or can’t believe the following:
a) Never have been, nor am I currently a Master Owner for any of the owner/operator companies currently in existence.
b) I do not have a vested interest in the outcome in any of the court cases currently in action across this country against any owner/operator companies currently in existence.
c) I have no family members, no friends, no people that I would even describe as “knowing” that have an ownership stake in any of the owner/operator companies currently in existence.
Please let me know if you need further clarification, will provide “blanket statement” and we’ll all agree to take it as true.
Open Forum: Since “guest” and “1st amendment” have totally digressed into their mindless “name calling” and “character assasination”, which by the way, was done on purpose by me in order to show everyone how “STUPID” their statements were in regards to the personal attacks on these companies and their employee’s. I would like to propose that the rest of “us” keep on a topic that will ultimately lead to making these companies and their respective owner/operator systems better.
Topic of discussion: Why are so many owner/operators unhappy? Despite the utter nonsense spewing from 1st amendment and “guest”, there is a problem and it is real, there are owner/operators working in the system currently and they are unhappy. Why?
Here’s some thought(s) would like for reasonable people to comment and either support or deny or add their own thoughts.
a) Dilusions of Greatness: Sometimes I think people think its “cool” to own a business and call themselves business owners. It is “cool” but it takes a lot of work, blood, sweat, tears, brain power and muscle power especially in this business. I would like to see the “presentations” changed to include at least some of the following statements and maybe even show examples of what this business is about:
1. “Commercial Cleaning” is a tough business. Though the rewards can be GREAT at times, they can also be Far and Few between. You must learn how to work this business properly in order to make the money you want to, you must not solely rely on “insert company name” to build your business, manage your business, grow your business and teach you this business.
2. Make sure that during the presentations it is as clear as possible in “no uncertain terms” that there are NO GUARANTEES of long term success. No one can offer that and keep a “straight face” nor should anyone ever say that and in all fairness nor should anyone ever think that!!
3. I would like to see the “contact information” for all current and former owner/operators updated on a quarterly basis. Currently, depending on the “state” , updates are only required once per year in most cases. Now, there has been a question in regards to the “validity” of the updates. As you know, more and more people are utilizing “cell phones” as their primary or in most cases only means of communication. We also know, that many times these numbers change and they “forget” to update the office. One of the “reforms” I would like to see happen is as follows:
a) Not less than quarterly, “master rep” must call all owner/operators currently active and verify information listed in the system is correct, if not, make a change, if you can’t reach them via phone, send them an email or a letter and request updated information, if it still doesn’t happen, “master” has a right/obligation to “hold” check until information is given for updated purposes.
b) Understand that once an owner/operator has left the system, it isn’t “master” responsibility to continue to keep track of that person. So, you are going to have to rely on other information to decide to purchase or not.
4. I would like to see the “resumes” of all current “master” employees as part of the presentation process. I go back to what I’ve said all along, if a “master” isn’t proud of his/her employees and feels that they have hired the best possible “talent” then why should you as an “investor” put your money with that particular “master”. Go down the street, until you find people you feel comfortable working with to assist you in the opportunity you are investing in.
Those are my “opening thoughts” would very much like to hear from you.
1st amendment and Guest: Though my primary goal is to “engage” others into their thoughts as to the problems in the industry as a whole, I still want to “banter” with the two of you. So “let’s get ready to rumble”.
1.Question to “guest”: Why don’t you reveal yourself, 1st amendment is on me consistently about “not revealing myself”. At least put on a moniker that has some “substance” “guest” is very basic and bland even for an attorney!
2. Speaking of “attorneys” why isn’t anyone questioning Mr. Vazquez and his group of “fine, well-heeled, well-oiled” attorneys whose paying their bills? Now as “simple” as Mr. Vazquez is, Am I the only one that finds it extremely hard to believe that Mr. Vazquez and/or the other plantiffs in the Jan-Pro case are “footing the bills”. Ms. Riordin and her “happy bunch” of litigators are extremely expensive, not to meniton all the aministrative fees, invetigative fees, documentation fees etc… When I brought up the “SEIU” connection, no one really “countered” just ignored.
Food for thought, more to come……..
Open Forum: Why are so many “z’s” unhappy?
We discussed numerous/correctable issues in an earlier post. Now lets get some more “out on the table”.
No doubt, Masters and Jan-Pro International needs to spend more time training, provide better training materials, provide those materials at no additional charge and/or have them available for “checking out” from their office.
No doubt, Masters and Jan-Pro International needs to make those training materials available in multiple languages.
No doubt, Masters and Jan-Pro International needs to make things available on-line including discussion forums (not complaint forums), training forums, produce online training materials for advance cleaning such as medical cleaning, daycare/nursery cleaning, general office cleaning, small office cleaning, logistics cleaning etc….
No doubt, Masters and Jan-Pro International needs to hire better quality of people who are trained in the “latest and greatest” ways of our industry, know how to take that training and “teach” others in especially the owner/operators.
No doubt, Masters need to have training at night and on weekends availabe so it is easier and less “tiring” by attempting to do it at other times.
No doubt, Masters need to spend more time growing those owner/operators already in the system vs. going out and getting more “new ones”.
No doubt, Masters need to do a better job of communicating with the owner/operators, that should and could be done in a variety of ways, newsletter, memo’s attached to checks, “blast mail” etc…
No doubt, Masters need to “adjust” their training program to include all of the following elements:
a) Book Training: Things need to be in writing even if no one reads it today
b) DVD and Video Training needs to “mirror” the book and be available as stated
c) Hands on Training, utilizing “masters’ office for training on general cleaning, restroom cleaning, floor cleaning, carpet cleaning, work flow etc..
d) On-site visits taken by Operations Manager to a current working site, seeing how the building cleaning, inspection done in front of them, making sure that they understand how to “flow” a job to get done in the appropriate amount of time.
e) Working with existing owner/operator for not less than one night. That night might simply mean a smaller account (for those purchasing the smaller packages) to cleaning, managing, supervising multiple accounts (for those purchasing the larger packages)
f) After all of this is completed, make the test the final form of certification, but you cannot/should not use the test as an extension of “time on the clock”. In other words, make the test relavent but make it open book, materials allowed in the testing area, questions allowed to be asked etc..
Finally, if a master has at least 50% hispanic only speaking or majority speaking owner/operators in his/her system, management needs to reflect that by the hiring of a bilingual manager that way there is as little “issue” with language as possible.
It was a beautiful weekend. Great to spend some quality time with family & friends, getting some exercise, blowing off some steam.
It’s clear how Jerry spent his weekend. I returned to find he had posted a truly mind-blowing volume of Pro Jani-King & Jan-Pro propaganda here. The question is: Why?
No one could possibly read it all. Could that be the point? Is the strategy to bury legitimate complaints under a mind-numbing mass of propaganda?
Out of curiosity, I copied and pasted all of Jerry’s comments from 5:46 am on Friday to right now (Sunday eve) into a Word document so I could get the following stats. Since Friday, Jerry has posted:
- 13,117 Words on just two posts (Jani-King and Jan-Pro)
- The equivalent of 28 Pages of a Word document.
Seriously, Jerry, are you 1) without a life, 2) inca