PLAY N TRADE: Video Game Franchise Played Out?
August 10, 2008
Are you familiar with the Play N Trade video game franchise? The franchise owners buy and sell used video games and video game related supplies and merchandise. At FranchisePick.com, Dale, an MBA candidate who is researching the Play ‘n Trade business model had some disturbing things to say about the Play N Trade used video game franchise :
I will graduate with my MBA in 6 days and my thesis is on Play N Trade. My professor has his PH.D. in management and we have been working on the PNT UFOC and financials for 4 months. I called corporate for information and researched everything I could find. The Play N Trade I went to did not have a play before you buy policy because the owner needed batteries for the game stations and he could not afford to buy them. He told me, a potential customer, that he was losing money. I felt so sorry for him I asked it I could buy a Wii but he did not have one in stock. As I looked around the store, “Out of Stock” signs were everywhere. I went to another store and had a similar experience and at the third store the owner tried to sell it to me.
I have a co-worker opening a Play N Trade. I wish she had not bought the hype. I have heard it as well and it is good hype but unrealistic.
My professor told me to tell my friend to “get out if she can.” It is not your business skills effecting your business. I have to defend my thesis and we can not even find a way to make the organization work. When I presented the company to my professor I thought it was great and he just smiled and said, “Let’s see how you feel at the end of the semester.” He was right.
Have you had any experience with the Play ‘n Trade video game franchise opportunity? What have you heard? Share a comment below.
Established Play N Trade For Sale. I hate to sell but have to do so because of health issues.
Our west-central Florida store consistently ranks in the top 20 (of 200 stores currently open). We have a highly-visible location with lots of drive by as well as foot traffic, as well as a database of approximately 5,000 customers. Buying an established location like mine will save you the months of headache with buildout, as well as the first few months of very slow sales after opening.
We’ll provide 4 weeks of transitional in-store training (this is above and beyond what you get from the franchise). After signing confidentiality agreements and proof of ability to pay (verification of deposit or pre-approved loan documents), I can discuss the financials and such. The store is valued at $362k but I’m asking only $300,000 for a quick sale. If you are seriously interested you can email me at [via admin at unhappyfranchisee[at sign]gmail.com and he will forward] with your contact info
[...] Related: PLAY N TRADE: Video Game Franchise Played Out? [...]
This franchise is great! I love the store and the concept is great! All of the people complaining about this are just not educated in the video gaming industry. How does gamestop make it? This concept is so much better and the pricing from the vendors is very close! The store is what you make it! They do make it .. and they do great! Just mad owners because they expect to open the doors and along comes the money. Thats not how small business works. There is so many store owners that are happy and that are buying more units. Playntrade is great!
This franchise is great! I love the store and the concept is great! All of the people complaining about this are just not educated in the video gaming industry. How does gamestop make it? This concept is so much better and the pricing from the vendors is very close! The store is what you make it! They do make it .. and they do great! Just mad owners because they expect to open the doors and along comes the money. Thats not how small business works. There is so many store owners that are happy and that are buying more units.
I disagree with John Webb. If there’s some controversy and lots of owners are complaining, then that’s an indication of a problem. You can’t say it’s just a conspiracy, and people just want to complain. That doesn’t make any sense. The kind of people who are entreprenuers, and would open a store, tend to be the kind of people who would not just open a store and expect the money to roll in. That’s what I refer to as a “Simpleton” explanation, not that you are, but an irrational way to deflect some conflict that you aren’t capable of dealing with. And it’s incorrect.
I suggest you reconsider your conclusion.
The best way to find out if a franchise concept is a good investment is to talk to a lot of their franchisees. By talking to a large number of franchisees, you can best understand if you are dealing with two or three whiners, or if any complaints and problems are really prevelant.
In the example of a Play N Trade franchise, you may want to ask them if Gamestop is a serious competitor. How close is their Play N Trade store to the nearest Gamestop. How does the franchise company tell them to best compete with Gamestop.
Gamestop appears to do very well. That could mean they are a tough competitor, but it could just mean that it is really an excellent market.
Also, you might want to ask them if they are getting much competition from other used video game franchises.
In depth research is the very best way to pick the best franchise.
Hi Dale,
I am a spanish investor looking to master-franchise PNT in Spain. I would be really interested in reading your thesis about this company. I am also a MBA holder at Instituto de Empresa (Spain) and I am sure that most of the things I would like to know are in yout thesis. Please let me know.
S.Mauri
Amazing how anyone can post anything online now a days and have people believe it as being credible.
Play N Trade has been awarded in the top ten of new concepts last year by Entrepreneur Magazine and is one of the best growing brands in this economy.
What they have accomplished in a short amount of time is incredible. They have a great concept.
They have an amazing leadership team that has led billion dollar companies in the same space and bottom line is they have competitors that are shaking in their boots.
You will see much more of them to come!
JC wrote: Amazing how anyone can post anything online now a days and have people believe it as being credible. Play N Trade has been awarded in the top ten of new concepts last year by Entrepreneur Magazine and is one of the best growing brands in this economy.
You are right, JC. People should be skeptical of whatever they read or hear – on and off the Internet. It’s funny, though, that you would then cite Entrepreneur’s bogus and advertising driven listings as credible.
In 2007, Entrepreneur named iSold It the #1 Best New Franchise and widely praised the ebay dropoff concept. At the same time, more than 60 franchisees had already failed and the chain was collapsing. Look it up on FranchisePick.com, whose blog posts prompted them to delete ISI from their list completely.
Entrepreneur dropped PnT from its Top New Franchises list completely in 2009. It downgraded Play N Trade’s position in the Entrepreneur 500 from #207 in 2008 to #345 in 2009. Does that mean PnT is going downhill? Does that mean there are truly 344 better franchise opportunities?I wouldn’t necessarily draw those conclusions, because those award lists are pure fiction designed to sell advertising, not inform the public. Subway has been #1 for all but 1 in 30 years, for crying out loud.
Smart franchise investors take note of all the positive and negative things being said from all sources, and then independently verify and draw their own conclusions. They are much more interested in what’s in Item 19 of the FDD than accolades in magazine lists. Agree?
Unfortunately, I have to sell my Play N Trade in Madison, WI. I think Play N Trade is a great store, but due to issues not related to store performance, I have to sell. This store can be moved anywhere in the country and the transfer fee is much less than buying a new franchise agreement.
Listing Includes all inventory (Approximately 50K), POS Systems, 7 Flat Screens and all fixtures, officer furniture and safe! This store can be sent anywhere in the country!
Asking Price – $150K
The video game industry is a hot industry and there are several mom and pop stores that seem to be doing well. I inquired about the franchise and have spoken to all different types of owners. It seems that the people that complain are older franchisees that didn’t have enough money to start with. How can you make money if you have no inventory. I love their concept and while I think they could use some improvements it looks as though they have some good changes in the works to improve the model. Still there are alot of franchisees that are doing tremedously well for only in business 1 year.
College Professors=people that couldn’t hack business in the real world ;o)
I was the franchisee of the year on 2007 and my experience was good. However, I had to close my operation after almost two years of operation. These concept requires a strong working capital to keep the business running in the slow months. If you have at least $100k of back up you can make it. I love the concept and dealing with people and making them smile, but hated when seeing them leaving the store due to lack of inventory. Nothing wrong to have one, but are sure you have the strong financials to keep it running? Just asked how many of us are in bankrupty today…
Unfortunately rankings mean nothing to a franchisee. All rankings mean is that the franchisor sold this many franchises and that many Area Developments. This means nothing to a franchisee. The problem with PNT is that they grew to fast, meaning they took anyones money and did not care who they were. They did not care that the franchisee was unfit or not a good match for their model, they just wanted the money. You will notice that they are closing stores left and right and it is PNTs fault indirectly. Also you will notice that they have restructured several times already. They are on there 3rd CEO in 2 years and corporate is thiner and rearranged. Don’t blame this on the economy becuase video game sales are not effected as proven in all finacial reports of video games.
PNT has a great concept and a lot of successful stores. My point to this is that selling a franchise is not like selling a video game. You can’t just sell a franchise to anyone and thats exactly what PNT did. Unfortunalely, there are problems with growing to fast. They sold 200 stores but they could not support 200 stores especially the ones that have no clue on how to follow the system. Franchisees need training and support, some more then others.
The 2007 Franchisee of the Year was out of business by 2009? Sheesh!
Sorry to hear that, Manny.
I own a Play N Trade. We just opened in july 08. we have been breaking even or profiting since september. WE ARE NOT HIGH VOLUME……….. we are not at the top of the monthly rankings. BUT!!!!!!!!!!!! we manage our inventory and cash flows. Our business is building every month and I am a happy franchisee……….. How could i possibly be happy we are not a high volume store?
The store does not make you successful, you make the store successful.
I do agree that pnt let anyone open a store in the beginning. most of those people do not know how to run a business and manage cash flow. Most of them are closed or are closing by now i’m sure. You will see more and more stores becoming successful as the franchisees they allow to open have better business management skills. Anyone can sell a video game but can YOU manage the operations of the business.
[...] PLAY N TRADE: Video Game Franchise Played Out? [...]
I am thinking of starting a PNT franchise. I am in the process of gathering information on the comapny and concept. Would you allow me to read your thesis? as it could be of great help to my final decision.
I am looking at a few different franchise opportunities,
looks like PNT has a good concept, but doesnt like to get into the details as much as I would like..
Obviously I am aware that many factors affect sales, but I would like to know the top tier stores, sales the middle, and the bottom.. depending on the location, operation and execution – I imagine that stores should fall somewhere in the middle..
understand true sales numbers, from the start up phase, 6 months, 1 year, etc.. can provide with some guidance on what to expect the 1st year..
again i know many factors affect sales, but with a 4-5% royalty.. I need to know what my sales are likely to look like..
one other option I am looking at is a 7-11.. they very clearly outline sales/margin components, expenses, etc..
i wish PNT was clear on store sales numbers… not just big picture “industry” numbers…
Start calling PNT Stores and ask them. The franchisor can NOT give you any sales projections doing this would give you falls hope and open themselves up to law suit. The franchisee can share whatever they want.
As anon says, the best source of sales numbers will be other franchisees. Call as many as possible, especially in the case of Play N Trade.
Also be sure to check out the lively Play N Trade discussion at UnhappyFranchisee.com.
Here are some links:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/play-n-trade/
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/play-n-trade-ca-revokes-pnt-franchise-registration/
http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/is-play-n-trade-a-great-franchise-opportunity/
Play N Trade could provide unit sales information by providing an Earnings Claim in Item 19 of their Franchise Disclosure Document but, like 70% or so of franchisors, choose not to.
[...] PLAY N TRADE: Video Game Franchise Played Out? [...]
[...] 2009 5:48 pmThere’s a comment on the other Play N Trade post here from franchisee Manny Velez. http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/play-n-trade-video-game-franchise-played-out/He said he was the 2007 Franchisee of the Year but had to close after almost two years of operation. [...]
Why would anyone want to start a franchise and pay all that upfront cost? I started my own mom n pop used video game retail store and it cost me $10k to setup the whole store (paint, flat screens, LAN play area aka birthday party area etc minus the inventory). I’m not on this forum to make money so thats why I’m not giving out my business info for my free ad plug. Seriously it’s easy! I’m only 27 and I make $125k a year after all costs. I’m independent so I don’t pay franchise fees, or have to follow any of their dumb rules. I can carry any item in my store I want and make it look how I want. If import japanese movies are hot then I can start carrying them in a small section of my shop… with pnt you gotta follow the planogram and get it approved…which they will not approve and you’re stuck with a slow store behind the market. It’s like you still have a boss… eventhough you own your own business to be your own boss. the pnt franchise concept is strange to me.
I don’t want to see anymore people getting ripped off by another playntrade franchise agreement. Do you guys seriously pay an additional 5% to corporate pnt for every sale? thats crazy!!! for what? do they advertise for you on tv ? no. play n trade is still generic.
All you really need to start a successful video game retail is the vendor information. Once you get a distributor to sell you new games and such then you’re good to go, thats the only thing pnt is really godo for is their vendor contact… which I have right here. Getting used games is easy thru yard sales, craigslist, trade ins, ebay lots, etc. I have the vendor info from a former pnt owner who went out of business and thats how I started my own store.
seriously start your own store. I hate gamestops and pnts. contact me, my info is [removed by admin]
I would be willing to bet that alot of current and former franchisees wish they would have done exactly that. Im also guessing that the people over at PnT corp are starting to get a little nervous, of the 2 pnt franchisees I still talk to from time to time, 1 is still open and he was telling me that stores are closing left and right, and now its not the just the crappy stores, but its now the big ones, doing 60k to 100k a month are now closing, including their former #1 store. So their argument of “its not us or the model, its the franchisee’s fault” is starting to lose its luster.
It is always a good idea when buying any franchise to ask for an updated list in writing of how many franchised units have closed in the last 12 months. The FDD is out of date in this regard. When looking at any franchise, this is very very important. The FDD may be dated 8 months ago, and it will not reflect this information.
Now no more confusion, just facts, they ended 2008 with 245 stores and the website states ended 2009 with 233, now with fifty openings in 2009 that means over 60 closed. IIf it is looks, acts and smells like a duck, it is a duck.
http://www.corp.ca.gov/ENF/list/p/PlayNTrade.asp
[...] PLAY N TRADE: Video Game Franchise Played Out? [...]
Where to begin,
The franchise is basically a pyramid scheme. Corporate gets rich, while the franchisees suffer. I noticed one poster blames the early franchisees for their stores failing. Yeah that’s a great idea, lets blame the people like me who put their money, blood, sweat and tears into their stores and not the people who designed the business model that we follow. I was promised, directly from the founder Ron Simpson, that we would have direct buying from all vendors after 100 stores were open. Still don’t have it years later. Where is he now?
He was just the first in the musical chairs of PNT CEO’s who all have the same policy, “I don’t know what the other CEO was doing but things will be different now.” Then we have the completely useless area reps. My store hasn’t been visited or called by a rep in over 6 months. My rep has never owned a PlayNTrade or worked at any type of multimedia retailer. Excellent choice PNT! Last time he was in I asked him who the current PNT CEO was and he said he had no idea. I asked him what Roger Lloyd’s current duties were, he was COO at the time I do believe, and he had no idea who that was. With his vast expertise he did recommend that I spend an additional $40,000 in store improvements.
Evidently even though we pay our dues every month we are persona non grata with PNT. I tried to call for franchisee support last month five times and left four messages over a two day period with no reply. Then I decided to call the number for people who are interested in buying a PlayNTrade. I informed the gentleman who answered that I already had one and needed to speak to someone in franchise support. He was kind enough to redirect my call to the same number I had been calling the previous two days where it met with an immediate answer after one ring. Previously I got no answer after fifty rings. Good job investing in that caller ID PNT, hats off to you!!!
After we decided to close down after several years of business we were greeted with a prompt letter from PNT threatening us with legal and credit repercussions if we did not fill out certain paper work immediately promising not to sue them among other things. Thanks again PNT for your appreciation of our years of service and money that you took.
All that being said I will acknowledge that mistakes were made on our end. However I can honestly say that if we had run the store perfectly we would still have gone out of business. The model is flawed, and our biggest mistake was not recognizing that upfront. We instead believed the promises of Mr. Simpson. Just because the Video Game industry is one of the fastest growing industries in America doesn’t mean that owning one is easy, and it’s even tougher with dead weight like PNT on your back.
Financial issues aside this whole ordeal has been particularly disconcerting from a conceptual standpoint. PlayNTrade, the way I envisioned it, was the anti-GameStop. It was supposed to be a store that catered to the customer’s desires and was able to deliver the type of customer service impossible in a bureaucratic quagmire like GameStop or any of the other chain retailers. We could make promises and offer prices that they never could; all we needed was to be allowed to compete on a semi-level playing field with them. I was the most ardent PNT supporter at first because of this, but, as you have probably noticed, I have sense become extremely disillusioned. I could go on for hours but I think you get the idea. I’d be happy to answer any questions [del.]
Sincerely,
A PNT Franchisee
Disillusioned- What state were you in, and what was the percentage of new to used? Are many play N Trades profitable.
I’d rather not get into specifics on this forum for fear of attempted reprisals from PNT. It seems sticking it to their franchisees for not towing the corporate line is one of the few things they excel at. I thought I could reply via email but it seems that is not allowed in this forum.
I will say this. As much as PlayNTrade is touted as a great opportunity to make tremendous amounts of money. Isn’t it odd that both Ron Simpson(PNT Founder) and Roger Lloyd (One of the original store owners, Former PNT CEO and current corporate officer) have sold all their stores, and none of the current corporate officers own any stores. Just check out the Walpole Massachusetts store and all the stores in Colorado. You wont see Simpson or Lloyd listed as owners anymore. I guess they know a couple of things we don’t. After all it seems to me that owning your own store would give you a great and almost indispensable way of staying in touch with the problems and needs of your franchisees. If its such a profitable endeavor any prudent person would keep it open and simply delegate day to day responsibilities so as not to take up any of your valuable corporate time. I guess they knew when to cut and run.
To put it bluntly, when a CEO sells all of his stock in a Fortune 500 company, we all know what that means. So what is the logical conclusion when our corporate officers sell their stores. I know that corporate is talking about starting up a few so called corporate stores, but there is a big difference between that and having a personal stake in your company.
Well said. Even franchise salespeople too…if its so great…why don’t they own one. A cook who won’t eat his own cooking…maybe he knows he didn’t wash his hands.
Disillusioned,
If you did get in the company when Ron Simpson and Roger Lloyd were with the company then you were one of the stores that was not screened properly (as they do now). There are a lot of stores who were not capitalized properly and there was no WAY they could make it on the resources offered to us through corporate and having the financial problems of being under capitalized. I have to admit when I got into owning a Play N Trade, I should never have had the ability of signing off on buying a store. Luckily I had plenty of retail and specifically video game retail experience, I knew where to put my store and how much I should be spending on everything ect. I only started my own store with 25k capital when it was recommended by corp as a minimum 50k capital (after initial inventory). After a struggle our first year we ended after all said and done with a 34k PROFIT. All bills paid all overhead covered all taxes paid I went home with that money in pocket and I still paid myself 40k on top of that for my yearly salary (I manage my store and pay myself this salary). I don’t know how many of you know this already, but MOST retail stores do not make profit in their first year of business. Not all stores are doing bad, some stores are doing great, even the ones that came in at the HORRIBLE beginning.
The New Corp office is doing a fantastic job getting things moving in a positive direction, granted it will still be too late to save some of the stores. The new build-out costs half what it cost me, the new tech package (computers for store POS ect.) costs literally half what it cost me, and works better. We are finally buying direct from developers (still has some problems to be worked out). We have a private forum for all store owners to talk amongst each other with NO hassle from corp. (though they may comment from time to time). We have a support team that (during the hours stated) have ALWAYS answered my questions, they may have had to get back to me if they didn’t know the answer of course. I don’t know if everyone expects the company to suddenly change overnight or something, but the company has been changing for the better for the 3-4 years I’ve been associated with them, and everything in the pipeline is looking up and up.
I know this forum does not allow direct contact with the posters but if you need to talk to store owners, just call us, most of us you will find are not unhappy franchisees, and anyone getting in the program now has a HUGE advantage over me and disillusioned who got in when it wasn’t as easy, or you could say was TOO easy to get in.
Disillusion I’m sorry your store isn’t working out as well as you wanted it to, I wish there was some way the admin could give you my personal info so I could get in touch and see if there is anything I could help you with if your store is still open when you read this.
“I wish there was some way the admin could give you my personal info…”
There is. If two commenters want to exchange contact info, both can email the request to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com and we will forward your contact info. Just use caution and care, as we have had plenty of posers initiating contact to find out true identities of anonymous commenters. That’s one of the reasons we don’t allow email addys to be posted.
Ron Simpson and Roger Lloyd cost a lot of people a lot of money with there false promises, and you think its ok to just say “oh well they arent with the company now and its not current managements fault.” Thats called passing the buck. What are you gonna say when these guys dont live up to their promises and the next CEO rotates in. I wouldn’t be suprised to see PlayNTrade getting sued again in the near future. I can see that you are still drinking the corporate koolaid but mark my words PNT will go under within 5 years. They opened 50 stores in 2009 but over 60 closed. The 2007 Franchisee of the year is out of business. It’s a matter of simple math.
If you were at that waste of money in Las Vegas last year as I was you probably heard them mention corporate stores, and they also mentioned that we will own no part of them. They are going to let us pay for them though. PlayNTrade is basically making the franchisees be the beta testers for their future corporate stores. We pay all the money and work out all the kinks so when they go completely corporate everything runs smooth and they rake in all the profits. They dont give a shit how many franchises go under in the process. I guarantee you they have a plan to become solely a corporate entity like GameStop. In doing that they are taking away everything that made PNT better than GameStop, and if and when they try to go heads up they will get destroyed by GameStop.
Incidentally I’m a millionaire in my other business so I have quite a bit of business knowledge. Godspeed to you if you think you can make your store work, but when PNT goes under remember you heard it here first.
Does anyone know the status of Play N Trade’s California registration that was revoked? Did they work things out with CA?
I hope the guy that is offering for troubled franchisees to call him, lasts longer than the last guy on the board that bragged that his Michigan stores were so great, and that people should stop complaining and just call him, because his stores were top performering stores. To my understanding, he lost his stores, and at least one was auctioned off the dept of revenue. The excuse that the failed stores (60+) were just some “early mistakes” is an insult to the hard working men and women that worked their butt off and lost their life savings.
I don’t remember reading about the 2007 Franchisee of the year going out of business in the corporate news letter. I suppose thats one thing they dont want to brag about.
THEY’RE BACK! I guess based on the stunning success their franchisees are enjoying, Play N Trade is advertising full page full color ads in Entrepreneur Magazine again. Those closed franchises? Those guys were no good-just some mistakes-oh its all better now-ya ya all better now…ya ya that’s the ticket!
It’s like talking to a brick wall, it’s no wonder that everyone with a store that is doing ok in PNT ignores this string. I think you guys missed the part where I made PROFIT my first year open. There aren’t very many business’ out there that make profit their first year open. I’m sorry you went into a poor location, I’m sorry you had a rough time with your opening costs or whatever you had a problem with, but to say the business model doesn’t work is just factually incorrect. I still, and a lot of the other store owners I talk on a regular basis still make money month after month, and the profit margin is getting better as our corporate office gets better at what they are doing. You guys must be past the point of no return or something, your not being proactive about your situation and fixing things yourself, no franchise runs the store for you.
As for drinking the Kool-aid, I deal with my own business, I use the name PNT and I use the branding, that’s what I bought into it for, not for corporate to run my store. I want to use them as “support” for things not to tell me where to spend my advertising or what product to buy, I don’t follow anything they send as recommendations to a T, I always look at my own numbers and decide how much to buy or weather not to buy.
I own another franchise business also, much less profitable by the way, which I don’t want to disclose so as not to open them up to the “wolves” of this forum. My full business knowledge is fine. I know, like any other owner, that profit is profit, my store will continue to grow, so far 25% comp, and Play N Trade will still have continued backing from me. All franchises have stores that fail, so far at a 20% fail rate PNT is above but still close to average. If they end up buying up my store as a corporate entity in 4-5 years, I’m OK with that, unlike a lot of franchisees I wrote into my contract a few stipulations if they failed or sold to another company that will make things good for me, again due diligence is necessary in business.
Like I said before it’s like talking to a brick wall and like many others who have tried to talk on here (unhappy franchisee) about their positives with Play N Trade I’m sure I will be shot down again. I must say to those reading this that the people who are, or have failed have a lot more time on their hands to complain than those of us who are doing well, take that into consideration when reading these posts. And for gods sake the name of the forum is unhappy franchisee, it’s bound to have just bad stuff about the franchise lol. Even still I must give kudos to the Admin, positive comments I have written have NEVER been deleted or modified.
John, and Disillusioned, I’m sorry your stores did not do well but PNT corp is pretty straight forward to Franchisees who ask where their money is going to tell them what it is being spent on, and I have to say I don’t see how Corp is ever going to go down, they are doing fine for themselves. I’m sure you would say on the backs of failed stores, but that would be your opinion and your entitled to it.
Side note 40 of 60 of the stores you were talking about that “failed” were told by corporate to close for not ringing sales through the register, basically not giving corp or the government their cut (illegal business). Last post by me to a “selective” ear. Thank you
Actually, I was an early franchisee of PNT and the only guys that where worth there salt was Roger Lloyd and Ron Simpson. They sold there stores before the sold franchises as far as I know. They where and still are the only ones I knew that actually ran there own stores. Good luck
Same here John, and as I noted before they both sold there stores. What does that tell you? Oh yeah and check the latest news reports. PNT’s wonderful CEO Larry Plotnick was kind enough to resign as CEO of Gamecrazy to take over PNT. Gamecrazy is now closing all of its stores. That ought to tell you something about his wonderful management style. The writing is on the wall, get ready.
“Whomever” sounds like a corporate stooge to me with that BS about 40 of 60 stores being told to close their doors. Even if that was true how as a store owner are you privy to that information, or did someone from corporate tell you. If so why would you believe that? You mean to tell me that 40 people who could get enough money together to open a PNT were stupid enough to cheat PNT and dumb enough to get caught?….yeah right!! PNT should be suing these folks then, wheres the lawsuit?
Where is your store and what is your name? Since you are so proud of PNT you should be happy to brag about your success. I’m suprised since you are making so much money you have the time to chastise the “losers” on this board for taking the time to share complaints. Also why would you be suprised at all the negative stuff on this board, its called “UNHAPPPYfranchisee.com”. What did you expext? The whole point of this website is so those of us who have owned PNT’s and are unhappy with our experience can share info without fear of reprisals from PNT.
The problem with sites like this is no fact checking. I know for a fact the founder sold out prior to all the problems going on at PNT. He was a straight shooter, as was Roger. Ron actually has bought failing PNT’s, turned them around and sold them! I haven’t seen corporate do that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but as far as I’m concerned it belongs to the bozos that have been running it for the last 3 years. Don’t get me wrong, they all could have done a better job, but this happens with fast growing franchises.
Sorry to correct you here John, but Ron Simpson left PnT in 08 for a couple of months, then came back and left for good in early 09, Roger left in late 09, so to say they had nothing to do with PnT current or past problems is laughable at best. It is true that Ron bought a failing PnT store, which he probably sold to the poor guy who has nothing now, but what even more amazing is that,
1.He was able to buy it without a franchisee agreement.
2.He didnt have to pay any royalties, but was able to run it as a PnT
3.He was able to rebrand it, yes if you can believe that.
Now he selling a new franchise Gamers Video Game, here is a link to it
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fort-Walton-Beach-FL/Gamers-Fort-Walton-Beach-FL/107185379304863?v=wall
Im sure that Franchisee will turn out about as good as PnT
Hmm, I feel as though I should weigh in here a little bit, I suppose its an obligation, maybe, I don’t know. I won’t give my real name, but I will give you my background. I was there, in the beginning, I was a manager for Ron before the franchise thing became a reality. One of my closest friends was also a manager for him, and is still working with him, to this day, though I won’t use his name, either. I was a part of it all, I had a hand in helping to shape the business practices, philosophically, if you will, though my part was small, I suppose, I know it had an impact. I wanted, so desperately, to be a part of the franchise, right from the get go, before he sold his Colorado stores, but I couldn’t pass, he wouldn’t allow me to buy in, and I had family backing, though now I think its for the best. PNT here in Colorado seems to not be doing nearly as well as it was when Ron was the owner, however, I think that’s more to do with Gamestop, Bestbuy, etc. In the Colorado Springs area, there is a huge influx of Gamestop. It’s massive. There is one at every single Walmart, not to mention a few random stores around, for good measure. Now, I don’t know the local owners here, but I have been into the local PnT locations, and I have to say, they aren’t the same as they used to be, years ago. I may not have gotten along with the man all that well, I’d say we got along decently, if not a few misunderstandings, but I will say this, his vision for the franchise was solid. He went from a hole in the wall in a bad part of town to buying out a rival gaming chain across Colorado in a rather short amount of time. Now, I can’t say how things are now, and I know times change, but he had initially based the model off of his success here in the Springs area. I have to be honest, I am still considering attempting to open my own store, though if I did, I wouldn’t really want to be part of a franchise, not for the fact of who owns it, more for the fact that I only want to answer to myself. At the time, when my family and I were interested in opening a store, honestly, I don’t think I was ready, I was far too young, and I’m sure that’s why I wasn’t allowed to buy in at the time. I’m not trying to tell any of you here you are wrong, or anything like that, at all, I just feel that I was somehow responsible, even though I know I’m not…I don’t know, it’s an odd feeling, having been there on a grassroots level, and seeing what has become of that tiny store I once managed, and seeing how the franchise has grown to immense proportions. In the end, I’m sure the goal is to go corporate…after all, the whole idea of a franchise was started for one reason, and one reason only…money.
Robowarriorx,
Thats a very interesting perspective, from the inside of PnT Corp. Comming from someone who decided not to purchase a store, after months of investigating, talking to people at corp, including Ron himself, maybe even you or your friend, your lucky that Ron would not let you buy in. The question that I think many current and former frachisee’s would be to you would be, why would he not want you to own a store, your his store manager, you do everyhting but sign the checks, so he trusts your judgement, or you wouldnt be there. My opinion is that its alot easier to scam a stranger than it is to scam a friend, and he didnt want you to go down that road. Now when i say scam, the model of selling used and new video games isnt a scam, Gamestop proves that, the scam is how they were sold to franchisee’s, this is not a single store model, period, again Gamestop proves that. Business’s close for many reason, bad concept, bad ownership, bad management, or the money runs out. When you have store after store close, and we are not talking about 2, 3, 5 stores, we are talking 70, 80, 90 stores, and the number one reason, they didnt have enough money, thats a problem, and when they sell you on the fact that you can get into this for 190k, and “You can make money even with a low volume store” thats the scam of it. When I told them to be really competitive with Gamestop and the like, you would need at lest 450k +, they laughed. Now you may or may not have had anything to do with the sales of the stores, but reading the last part of your post, you seem to have some guilt over it, and if I had worked for a company that has that track record, id probably feel guilty to.
When you say “70, 80 , or 90 ” stores closed, that failure rate does not count the people who invested 200k plus, and then sold their stores for 100k or less. If I invest 225,000 in a business, work for a year with no salary and lose money, and then sell the business for 50,000, I would consider that a failure. The “churn rate” of stores sold for less than the amount invested added to the store closings, is in my opinion a better guide to what the true failure rate is of any franchise system.
Yes I would agree with that, you also have to take into consideration the people
who bought the rights to stores, say 3, but then walked away without ever opening one, at one point PnT said the had over 500 rights sold, so the number of people who did that is probably pretty high.
Joe,
You are right, that is an excellent point. Play N Trade sold many multiple packages, where the people paid in advance for the rights to open several franchise locations. Once people got their first Play N Trade opened, they realized that they made a mistake, but that money is non refundable. I heard from one lawyer, that Play N Trade was actually charging minimum royalties to the people who did not open. With so many different franchise opportunities out there, why anyone would buy a Play N Trade franchise now is beyond me.
John
I’m not at all suprised that Ron has moved his little con to a different location.I’m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt for now and hope that maybe things at PNT just got out of his control. I hope that he keeps this new Gamer thing small and firmly under his control. But buyer beware!
EA sports announcement that you will now have to pay to play online if you buy one of there games used is sure to have a ripple effect across the entire gaming retail world. EA is the 2nd biggest gaming company in the world and I’m sure others will follow suit. This will hurt even companies like Gamestop and in all likelyhood kill smaller stores, franchises and independents alike. As we all know, all the money is in the used games.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/108/1088621p1.html
Why would this hurt used game sales? All they are going to do is register your gamer tag and ask for payment new or used. Why would they squash their biggest outlet of their games, GameStop? Its a great business move because now they make money as well when a used game is sold. They don’t have to rely on selling new anymore. Food for Thought!
This industry will get more challanging…if Play N Trade had trouble before, they won’t make it in the future.
John
I agree. The model was taken over by the people from Yakety Yak ever since the merger in like 2005. It was a great, solid concept until those people who had no idea what they where doing, took control. They raised royalties, approved anyone and they are still there behind the scenes. Look up Jared Turner and James Kindred. So if there is hope for this as a franchise, maybe Ron will do it. But I doubt it after what happened with Yakety Yak.
I’m an attorney looking into this matter and it appears John is correct. I’ve reviewed PlayNtrade’s disclosure documents and the Founder hasn’t been C.E.O. since the merger. However Jared Turner has been Chairman of the Board for most of that time for both Yakety Yak and PlayNtrade. James Kindred has held numerous positions for both companies as of that date as well, and still does. Interesting, isn’t it?
Look we hava shark in the house. Go away your half the problem…
In PR I know that at least 5 Stores have closed operations and two of us are in Bankruptcy. I lost my house, the one never had a late mortgage payment but had to surrender to cover my loan debt, however the total debt was HUGE! It was a great dream but didn’t work. The remaining Puerto Rico stores are running under other names, with the exception of one I think.
I congratulates those that are still making money, but I lost ALL, alsmot my family too, but GOD never let me down.
If anyone have to money to spend, send it to Haiti, they will make better use of it. Don’t waste it!!!!
Manny,
My heart goes out to you. To have spent your life building everything you have, and then to lose it all because of your Play N trade franchise is very sad indeed. I know one of the Puerto Rico Play N Trade franchisees was Franchisee of the Year…is that Play N Trade Franchisee of the year still in business?
I believe that He(Manny) was The franchisee of the year.
Joe is right!
I was the one!
If the Play N Trade franchisee of the year had to declare bankruptcy, that doesn’t speak very well for the viabiliity of the Play N Trade franchise business model. I know that the Grand Rapids Michigan guy who said he was one of the top performing franchisees in the entire system is out of business. And I mean, come on, to say you are the fastest growing Video Game franchise, when you are closing more stores than you are opening is not puffing, in my opiinion it is a lie, and while I am not an attorney, it seems to me to be an actionable fraud. I am not a big fan of goverment regulation, but saying you are the fastest growing franchise while more locations are closing than opening should be something the state regulators should look at.
John writes: “to say you are the fastest growing Video Game franchise, when you are closing more stores than you are opening is not puffing, in my opiinion it is a lie… an actionable fraud…”
Can you back up your statement that PnT is closing more than opening? I just searched Google news and found references to new Play N Trade openings in Plainview, NY, Warrenton, VA, Austin, TX, ON, Canada, Chicago, IL, and Phoenix, AZ.
John, can you name Play N Trade’s closed in 2010 that exceed these openings, or is your claim puffery? Or actionable fraud?
“Play N Trade Franchise, Inc, the fastest growing video game franchise worldwide, is excited to announce a new store opening in Plainview, NY. Michael Weissberg… opened his first location in February…” http://www.theopenpress.com/index.php?a=press&id=73444
Play N Trade Franchise, Inc, the fastest growing video game franchise worldwide, is excited to announce that Front Royal, VA franchisee, Will Lawrence is planning to open his second location in Warrenton, VA in June. Lawrence opened his first store in July of 2008…Lawrence already has plans for a third Play N Trade”
http://pr-canada.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=188152&Itemid=36
“April 23, 2010 — Play N Trade Franchise, Inc, the fastest growing video game franchise worldwide, is excited to bring a family owned and operated gaming business to Austin, TX. Brenda and Jason Wicker… plan to open their Play N Trade franchise May 7th, 2010.” http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/04/prweb3894954.htm
“Play N Trade Franchise, Inc, the fastest growing video game franchise worldwide, is excited to announce that father and son team, Robert and Shane Poon have opened their first Play N Trade in Bowmanville, ON, Canada.
Play N Trade, Bowmanville opened its doors April 9th” http://pr-usa.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=384868&Itemid=32
“Play N Trade Franchise, Inc, the fastest growing video game franchise worldwide is excited to announce a new store opening in Chicago’s Six Corners shopping district. Ernesto Ayala celebrated his store’s grand opening in March…” http://www.pr.com/press-release/229632
“Steve Stevens of Phoenix, AZ has purchased his third franchise unit… Stevens plans to open his second store within the next 60 days and has a list of more than a dozen locations that would make sense to place a Play N Trade franchise. His current Play N Trade location in Phoenix, AZ…” http://prudentpressagency.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=15913
Closed: http://columbiaclosings.com/wordpress/?p=1696, http://famicomfreak.blogspot.com/2010/04/goodbye-play-n-trade.html
Guest,
Well at one point PnT had over 30-40 stores open California??
Now you have 8?
How is that Growth?
Next time I am in my state capital, I will go the office where this information is public, and I will get Play N Trade Franchise Disclosure Document “FDD”. You use to be able to get it from caleasi website in California, but after the problems Play N Trade had in CA, I am not sure they are registered there anymore. There is no question stores continue to open, but stores are closing too. If anyone has 2009 statistics from the Play N Trade FDD, I would like to hear the numbers. All I am saying, is that I would like to know how they base that claim. There are Video Game franchise systems that doubled their size in 2009, and had no failures.
Billy…the reason this will hurt used game sales is because you will be allowed to play online if you buy an EA Sports game new but be forced to pay 10 dollars if you buy it used. That 10 dollars goes straight to EA. Therefore stores wont be able to charge as much for a used game if all of the multiplayer value is gone from it. It cuts down on the profit margin and also encourages people to buy new instead of used. Afterall why buy a used game and then have to make a 10 dollar payment in addition to what you just paid to get it to work. Its great for the manufacturer, but it hurts the used game retailer.
I can’t believe in this day and age with google that so many people are really “scammed” With all of the disclosure laws and research you can do before you buy any franchise, I think “I’ve been scammed” is an excuse for “I’m a failure and I’m looking for someone to blame” I’m not buying any franchise because if I succeed I did it myself and if I fail I won’t be coming to a website like this to make myself feel better (I’ll just look in the mirror}.
John,
You make a valid point. It is an owners job to do exhaustive due dilligance before they make their purchase decision. And, it is their responsibility to make their store a success. My comments on this board, are just to help people with their due dilligance when looking at a Play N Trade franchise, or any franchise. If they see that many have failed, and they choose to ignore that, it is that decision that they need to take responsibility for that if they fail. You are right, too many people are in a hurry to blame the franchisor. But for the people out there, if you buy any franchise where there have been many failures in the system, don’t be suprised if you fail too! It’s not just Play N Trade. Many franchise systems have a poor track record. Don’t be so quick to let a salesman “explain away” those failures. If you move forward…you know what you are getting into. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you are smarter than other people…you may be…but it doesn’t mean you will be a success.
John
I’m not making any excuses either. I am stating facts and trying to let people benefit from my experience with PNT. I share a huge amount of the burden for the failure of my store, and I made a lot of mistakes. I will say its my honest opinion that the store would not have worked even if run perfectly. It needed a lot more capital than we were told we needed.
I will point out that when I bought in there were less than 10 stores so its kind of hard to do “due dilligance” with so little to research, and I made the stupid mistake of taking Ron’s word for a lot of things. I was buying into Ron’s vision of PNT as it was presented to me. He promised direct buying from all the major game companies after 100 stores were open. He promised that we would be able to count on getting games at the same time as or ahead of Gamestop. Plus many other things that didnt happen in my years with the company. Whether its his fault or not he didnt back up his word, and the people at PNT today arent carrying through on there promises either. I just wish I had gotten all of that in writing so I could be suing someone right now. If you’re looking for people who blame others, look no further than PNT corporate. Whenever something goes wrong it’s previous managements fault, or a distributer’s fault. I spent years complaing about our problems with game delivery and was constantly told its Ingrams fault. PNT corporate did nothing about it which is what they are getting paid for.
As to the man who says “if I fail I won’t be coming to a website like this to make myself feel better”, then why are you here? To ridicule people? We are just owners and former owners sharing information to help each other out. You know so that others can have access to information on this company from the inside before they buy in.
Also I would advise anybody reading this board to not take anything that is said at face value. Don’t believe me if you dont want to. However, I would just try to take everything in and ask PNT some of these questions and see if they can answer them to your satisfaction. Do your own research. Just use this as a useful guide.
Disillusioned,
I think you have every right to come here and present your information. You lived it and suffered the consequences. Prospective franchisees want to believe, they want to buy into the dream. Your story is an excellent lesson, and may save other people from the same fate you had. People risk so much when they open a franchise, it is important for them to know these things. When Play N Trade tries to explain these things away, it is important to hear from people like you.
John
Does anyone know how many stores closed in 2009. Also, how many were sold?
Thanks.
I seem to recall on another thread, that a franchisee had said that during a conference call talking about the California issue, the CEO gave a number thru April 09 of like 34 stores closed, 39 stores opened. I would guess that the number of stores closed in 09 would be anywhere between 70-90 stores.
If you go back to 08, PnT said that they had sold like 585 stores, they now have what like 180-200 stores open, so 380 plus stores have either closed or never opended. Why would anyone ever get involved with that, unles they have a ton of money they dont mind losing.
Is Play N Trade staging a comeback?
Anyone know the status of the CA franchise registration?
PLAY N TRADE Franchise: 30 Stores to Open in 2010
I am looking at Play N Trade and they are not only registered in California, but have recently opened a new store in San Diego. The new store looks great and my research shows they’ve opened nearly 40 of them in the past year and that they are doing pretty well. They also recently rolled out a new POS technology package and are working on new web pages, national advertising and e-commerce solutions this Fall.
I AM REALLY CONSIDERING TO BE A PART OF PNT. I LIVE IN SOUTH TEXAS AND HAVE BEEN RESEARCHING IF IT WILL BE IN MY FAVOR TO BUY INTO THIS FRANCHISE. SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE. I UNDERSTAND THAT THE DOMINATING FRANCHISE IN THE RIO GRANDE VALLEY IS GAMESTOP. ALTHOUGH I HAVE ENDLESS COMPLAINS ON GAMESTOP AND JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY WILL AGREE WITH ME ON SOME OF THOSE ISSUES WITH GAMESTOP. I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF IT WILL WORK IN A SPOT THAT IS IN NEED OF A GAMING STORE AND IS CURRENTLY NEUTRAL ON COMPETITION. I WOULD REALLY APRECIATE ANY ADVICE ON THIS TOPIC. I WOULD LOVE A REPLY ASAP SINCE I HAVE A MEETING IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS WITH A REAL ESTATE AGENT, CONCERNING A STORE OR LOT WHICH WILL FIT PNT’s REQUIREMENTS. WHAT IS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT I WILL NEED TO TAKE OUT OF MY POCKET TO START THIS WHOLE BUSINESS OPPORUNITY?
JUAN
Juan,
As a current Franchisee of the PNT System…I would recommend $250K minimum. The buildout is more expensive now than when I got in at the height of the expansion. You will need at least $100K in working capital to keep you going in this trying time of economic downturn.
Never underestimate the power of Gamestop. Even though your potential customers are telling you “they hate GS, the customer service sucks, they don’t know anything”…you are still at a an extreme disadvantage when it comes to title allocation, product assortment and vendor support.
Instead of talking/asking people on this board about “what you should do”…call at least 10-15 franchisees in different locations and ask them thier experience. Not calling 10 franchisees is dooming you to fail and if you do not have the $100K working capital…you will.
Money comes slowly in this business…you may well feel you are alone out there but there are dozens of franchisees that are willing to help…just have to get to the right ones.
Juan,
Well I would really do my homework on this, I would call all of the franchisee’s that are still open in Texas. I would take the the amount PnT say you need and double it, so I would plan on having atleast 500k, if going the SBA loan route, to borrow that amount, you will need atleast 100-150k out of pocket. if they will even give u a loan based off PnT’s stellar sucess rate. I would ask PnT for a current list of closed stores as of today’s date, and a list of people who purchased the right to open a store, but never did, and try to talk to every last one of em. I would also ask PnT for a current list as of Today, any pending lawsuits for and against PnT. In 2008, Pnt had listed 594 stores sold, today they have 210(Insert Joke here) stores open, you do the math, but thats not a very good number. My advice to you would be if you really want to open a store, do it yourself.
THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR ADVICE!!!! I WILL DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU RECOMMENDED!!! APRECIATE YOUR TIME AND ADVICE.. HAVE A MARVELOUS DAY AND MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!! : )
Sometimes people dont want to share personal information. Ask a franchisee, “Systemwide, for a guy that works in the store 40 hours a week, how much money does the average owner make after paying his loan expenses year 1 and year 2?”
OK, I’ve been reading through a few of these threads. I am a business owner, still struggling but in business for 4 years now.
My rules which I read in many books and information sources about business/entrepreneurship.
-Open something you know and you like.
-Research, research, research, particularly if you you are going the franchise route.
-Location, location, location (which I screwed up a bit)
-Don’t expect to make money your first year, maybe even your first two years sometimes, depending on the industry. Make sure you have back up funds to live off of.
I didn’t go the franchise route, I wanted to do things my way and had read so much that franchises have so many rules (not a bad thing, just not for me)
My understanding though, is part of what you pay for with a franchise is the name. When you buy a McDonald’s, everyone knows McDonald’s and that is part of what you are paying for. PNT to me, not a big name in my opinion. So why not start a solo venture doing the same thing if that’s what you are in to?
Oh, and expect to work a LOT in your first couple years, unless you can afford to pay someone else to. I put in up to 70 hours some weeks in my first few years. In the last year I’ve finally been able to start taking 2 days off a week and working only about 50-60 hours per week. I don’t mind it at all, I’d rather work 60 for me than 40 for someone else. Make sure you warn your spouse though, chances are your mega hours are gonna cause some issues, mine did, but we made it through.
I’m not saying that any of these failed franchisees didn’t know all of this, but I do get the impression that SOME (not all) are a little naieve when buying a franchise, or even opening any business. Do your homework. And if like me you think you did it all, do more just to be sure. My intention was not to insult anyone and I apologize if I did.
Marco Opolo is correct, expect to work most of the hours alone or with part time help. Relationships will become stressed and your patience will run thin.
I think PNT corp is trying but with the amount of store failures, uncollectible royalties, and weak performance of stores in general (in a franchise system there will always be a percentage of stores that just will do great for a multitude of reasons) thier cash flow is changing from month to month. Staff reductions, changes and the introduction of a new POS system, hopefully will allow them to create a plan looking down the road into 2012.
Is now the right time to get into PNT? Yes if you are heavy on cash, long on work ethic, and realize that you may really only realize 10-15% profit margins in the first 2-5 years until you establish your selves as the gaming leader in your community. Your profit will go directly into paying back creditors, vendors and rent.
Unfortunatly in PNT there are so many stores failing due to lack of knowledge/support from the first sets of CEO/Franchisors that we are underfunded and overextended.
The newer PNT’s seem to be doing better but they have not been out there long enough to see the long term effects of low margins, limited product allocation, and the true effect of Gamestop’s buying power and marketing.
Gamestop is the big dog for a reason.
can anyone tell me whom to contact at Play N Trade to get on their ‘preferred vendor list” I was told as a franchise owner that you get a list of select vendors to buy your equipment from. If you are a franchise owner can you tell me what type of safes are offered on your list and what brand name?
Thank you!
Juan or any one else,
I have a complete store (2 years old) in a POD storage unit. We closed our store. Comptuers, TV, consoles, inventory, SWAG. Disk cleaner, storage, coolers, halo suit, fixtures, indoor out door sign,you name it. Everything. Worth 150k or more. we were allowed out of our lease. Asking 60-65k, make an offer it will be shipped to you. I will provide complete inv and fixture info if you want.
For the person who said they have a store for sale:
If you are legit I would like a complete list of what you have. I am seriously considering pulling the trigger on a franchise soon (and yes I have read everything on this blog), and I am looking to cut some costs if I can.
My email addy is
[redacted]
Thanks!
Admin note: We don’t allow posting of personal contact info, including email addresses, phones #s, etc. If you’d like to have your contact info forwarded, please email your request to site Admin at UnhappyFranchisee[at]gmail.com. Thanks.
Jim,
I have requested to the admin of this site to provide you with my email address or vica versa. In addition, it is a legit post. I will provide whatever info you need. We are completing the exiting of our store location and completing the paper work with corp this week. I can provide a complete inventory, assets, fixture, etc.. with all other materials as well (i.e. signs, swag, office supplies, storage). We are simply going to store it, so it is available immediately. Once I either recieve your email or you mine from the admin of this site I will pass along any info and would be available to talk.
LRW